On with Kara Swisher — Rep. Ro Khanna on Epstein, ICE & a Billionaire Wealth Tax

Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA)

Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging conversation between Kara Swisher and Representative Ro Khanna, touching on immigration abuses at ICE detention centers, the accountability crisis surrounding the Epstein files, the controversy over Khanna’s proposed one-time billionaire wealth tax, the ideological fault lines in Silicon Valley, and broader rumblings inside the Democratic Party. Khanna details his evolving relationship with the tech industry, his bipartisan push for transparency around the Epstein scandal, and his policy priorities as the new ranking Democrat on the House Select Committee on China.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Human Rights Abuses at ICE Detention Centers

Timestamps: [05:34–09:53]

• Firsthand Account: Khanna describes his recent visit to a for-profit ICE facility in California, recounting unsanitary conditions, lack of medical care, inadequate clothing, and systemic neglect.
  • “I met with 47 detainees... These are not hardened criminals. Many of them have been in this country for years. They've been paying their taxes... There was rocks in their food. One man... had blood in his urine. And since seven days he had not been able to see a doctor.” (Ro Khanna, [05:47])
• For-Profit Incentives: Kara and Ro highlight how profit motives exacerbate neglect:
  • “It's a for-profit facility, and the more costs they save, the more money they make.” (Kara Swisher, [08:25])
• Lack of Accountability: Khanna claims ICE acts as a quasi-private police force, absent DOJ oversight and meaningful de-escalation training.
  • “The fundamental problem here with ICE is that it doesn't report to the Justice Department... You have no de-escalation training... They're acting like thugs in some of these places.” (Ro Khanna, [11:21])

2. The Renee Good Killing & Law Enforcement Impunity

Timestamps: [09:53–15:23]

• Chilling Message to Protesters: Khanna explicitly warns protesters about the risks:
  • “If you're protesting ICE, if you're protesting this administration, you're taking a risk. And I deeply admire the courage of people who are willing to do that.” (Ro Khanna, [10:21])
• Executive Overreach: Vivid discussion on how the Trump administration justifies excessive force and immunizes its agents:
  • “We're the Congress. We make the law... We're the judicial branch. It's all of the power in one. And who decides? It's basically Kristi Noem, JD Vance and Donald Trump.” (Ro Khanna, [13:34])

3. The Attack on Fed Chair Jerome Powell & Monetary Policy Independence

Timestamps: [15:29–18:04]

• Rubicon Crossed: Khanna strongly condemns the Trump administration’s criminal investigation into Jerome Powell, warning it threatens the basic architecture of U.S. monetary policy.
  • “This is the point of no return because this is threatening America's money. I care about America's human rights and dignity, but everyone cares about America's economy.” (Ro Khanna, [16:07])

4. China Policy, AI Chips, and ‘AI Democratization’

Timestamps: [18:09–23:59]

• Balanced Industrial Policy: As new ranking member on China, Khanna argues for supply chain resilience but also supports limited AI chip sales to China—holding back the most advanced chips to preserve a U.S. lead.
  • “We want to sell them as much as we can up to that latest stuff because that gives our companies revenue which they can then invest in the United States.” (Ro Khanna, [18:39])
• Tech Philosophy: Distinguishes his approach as “AI democratist”:
  • “I'm not an AI accelerationist. I'm not an AI doomer. I'm an AI democratist. We need democratization.” (Ro Khanna, [21:17])
• Open Social Web: Khanna pushes for laws requiring big tech platforms to be compatible with the open social web, empowering consumers to control their data and experience.
  • “They need to be compatible with the open social web... That would be the most transformative thing.” (Ro Khanna, [23:59])

5. The Epstein Files: Transparency, Survivors, and Accountability

Timestamps: [27:59–43:16]

• DOJ Obstruction: Khanna criticizes Pam Bondi and the DOJ for slow-walking the release of the Epstein files and calls for a special master to oversee redactions.
  • “The release has been woefully inadequate... They're admitting... they've got millions of documents.” (Ro Khanna, [28:37])
• Co-Conspirators and Government Failure: Emphasizes it goes beyond Epstein—named but uncharged co-conspirators and suppressed survivor testimony:
  • “Now we know there are a lot of other co-conspirators from the documents. And... those co-conspirators weren't charged and there are prosecution memos... they haven't released.” ([29:03])
• Bipartisanship with Rep. Thomas Massie: Details his cooperation with the Kentucky Republican, describing their unlikely alliance and the MAGA base’s anger at the Trump administration’s foot-dragging.
  • “This is the issue that the MAGA base is livid over Trump on... They are livid at Pam Bondi.” (Ro Khanna, [33:17])
• Symbolic Resonance: Khanna calls the Epstein case a test of whether elites can evade justice in America, seeing its power as rooted in the universality of sexual assault and the revulsion at elite impunity.
  • “If they could get away with this, what else are they getting away with?” (Ro Khanna, [39:03])
• On Bill & Hillary Clinton: Supports them testifying, but condemns selective politicization.
  • “Have the Clintons come and testify under oath, but then also have Maxwell testify and others testify... a much more broad based inquiry.” (Ro Khanna, [40:46])

6. Silicon Valley, Billionaire Wealth Tax, and Elite Backlash

Timestamps: [43:16–54:12]

• Personal Costs: Khanna admits underestimating how fiercely tech elites would turn on him for his support of a one-time 5% billionaire wealth tax.
  • “I didn't realize the vehemence at which I would get disowned and attacked... at the slightest thing of suggesting a, a 1% tax.” (Ro Khanna, [44:06])
• Justification: Ties the tax to cuts in Medicaid and the need to sustain healthcare for millions:
  • “There have been huge cuts in Medicaid to California... this is going to mean rural hospitals... are going to close.” (Ro Khanna, [44:25])
• Design Challenges & Solutions: Acknowledges technical problems and calls for design fixes, including protecting illiquid founders’ shares.
  • “There are two provisions... I'm working to get changed... you should not be taxing founders on the voting shares... And there needs to be provisions for, for that [illiquidity].” (Ro Khanna, [45:11])
• Public Response: Describes tech backlash as disproportionately angry instead of constructive:
  • “What I was surprised by with the vehemence with which they just said, no, this guy's progressivism is something that we think is gonna hurt and kill Silicon Valley.” (Ro Khanna, [53:09])

Notable Quote

“You made all your money in California, you ungrateful piece of shit. You could figure out a way to pay more taxes and we deserve the taxes from you...”
— Kara Swisher ([46:47])

7. Steve Ratner’s Expert Question: Is a State Wealth Tax Sustainable?

Timestamps: [49:02–51:04]

• Khanna’s Response:
  • Supports a federal wealth tax ("cleaner"), but sees a well-designed state version as a reasonable stopgap.
  • “The directional point is that billionaires in my view can pay more so that people have healthcare, childcare in this country. I call it an anti-revolution tax.” (Ro Khanna, [50:36])

8. Democratic Party, Leadership, and the 2028 Horizon

Timestamps: [57:54–64:39]

• Vision for Democrats: Focus on economic independence and addressing the wealth divide.
  • “The Democratic Party should have a simple mission, which is the economic independence and success of every family who feels left out...” (Ro Khanna, [58:22])
• Leadership Critique: Calls for Schumer to step down for lack of boldness; sees Hakeem Jeffries as energetic and effective.
  • “Chuck Schumer and I have worked together... When you look at him, do you… think that's the future of America? Like, come on.” (Ro Khanna, [61:26])
• Presidential Ambitions: Admits to ambition and a vision of a “New Economic Patriotism.”
  • “I want to be part of the national conversation. I don't apologize for ambition. I think frankly, we need more ambition.” (Ro Khanna, [64:54])
• No Interest in House Leadership: “I wouldn't be effective there. I'm too independent. I don't do things by committee.” (Ro Khanna, [64:00])

9. Social Issues & Political Flexibility

Timestamps: [67:26–69:25]

• On cultural issues: Refuses to “abandon values,” but advocates for prioritizing economic messaging and open, patient dialogue across divides.

10. Accountability as a National Priority

Timestamps: [70:20–72:17]

• First Steps for a Post-Trump Presidency: Calls for immediate action on transparency and prosecutions to reverse the culture of impunity.
  • “Start with a pledge for accountability. Day one. Release all the Epstein files that Trump wouldn't have released and make sure that you're prosecuting anyone who was engaged in the COVID up...” (Ro Khanna, [70:20])

Notable Quote

“For too long people just say, okay, the rich and powerful, they just get away with everything. And so I think having an accountability culture and making that clear from day one, that's our intent.”
— Ro Khanna ([71:19])

Notable Exchanges & Memorable Moments

• ICE Detainees’ Plight: Khanna’s visceral recounting of the ICE visit — “shivering at night... treated like animals... I was embarrassed as an American.” ([05:47])
• On the Billionaire Exodus Threat: Kara’s direct language: “You made all your money in California, you ungrateful piece of shit...” ([46:47])
• Bipartisan Epstein Crusade: Anecdotes about working with Massie, surprising MAGA support for investigation transparency, and the “odd couple” dynamic. ([35:09–37:07])
• Tech Industry’s Hostility: “I thought there’d be more people like Jensen [Huang]... instead, the vehemence... I was surprised.” ([53:09])
• Ambitions for Higher Office: Khanna’s openness—“I want to be part of the national conversation. I don't apologize for ambition…” ([64:54])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• ICE Conditions & Immigration: [05:34–15:23]
• Powell/Fed Independence: [15:29–18:04]
• China, AI Chips, AI Democratization: [18:09–23:59]
• Epstein Files / Accountability: [27:59–43:16]
• Billionaire Tax & Tech Backlash: [43:16–54:12]
• Party Vision, Leadership, 2028: [57:54–64:39]
• Social Issues / Political Flexibility: [67:26–69:25]
• Accountability & First Steps Post-Trump: [70:20–72:17]

Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in Ro Khanna’s brand of progressive politics: committed to shared prosperity, unafraid of powerful enemies, and insistent on government accountability—whether it’s for ICE abuses, finance’s worst excesses, or billionaire lawlessness. The discussion offers an unvarnished look at the workings of power, Khanna’s calculus on bipartisan alliances, and his vision for a post-Trump, post-inequality America.

Recommended for: Listeners interested in U.S. politics, accountability for elites, tech industry dynamics, and the evolving identity of the Democratic Party.