Podcast Summary

Podcast: On with Kara Swisher
Episode: Sen. Smith on the Shutdown, Democrats’ Future, and Retiring Early
Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Senator Tina Smith (D-MN)

Overview

In this episode, Kara Swisher speaks with retiring Senator Tina Smith in front of a live audience at the MinPost Festival in Minneapolis. With her Senate career winding down and a looming government shutdown, Senator Smith offers candid insights into Democratic strategy, the erosion of institutional norms under President Trump, the rise of political violence, her decision to retire, and the challenges facing the Democratic Party in a precarious political moment.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Norms Broken: DOJ as a Political Weapon ([04:07]–[08:10])

• Kara opens by probing the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey, thought to be motivated by presidential vendetta.
• Sen. Smith: “Anybody who is surprised that Donald Trump is gonna do what he said he was gonna do has not been paying attention… Here is yet another norm that he is overturning…” ([04:33])
• Smith lays out the fundamental breakdown of Watergate-era ethical standards, where presidents refrained from using the DOJ against enemies.
• She expresses confidence Comey will be exonerated, but notes the devastating effects on his family and broader rule-of-law concerns.

2. Authoritarian Drift and Exhaustion Tactics ([06:42]–[11:12])

• Tina Smith describes an "authoritarian takeover" already in process, with Trump empowering loyalists to subvert institutional power.
  • “We are in the middle of a authoritarian takeover of our country…this second term is much, much more dangerous…” ([06:42])
• On Steve Bannon and “flood the zone” distraction tactics: “It's not one thing after another. It's the same damn thing over and over again.” ([10:15])
• Smith emphasizes the importance of not succumbing to exhaustion, advocating for constant civic engagement and protest.

3. Congressional Power, Checks, and Democratic Leverage ([11:12]–[15:22])

• Discussion of toolkits available to Congress and Democrats:
  • Declining presidential popularity.
  • Judicial check—effective at lower courts, but hamstrung by SCOTUS “shadow docket” deference to Trump.
  • Congressional oversight stymied by lack of GOP cooperation.
• Smith acknowledges the sense of futility but insists: “We are not powerless. We have to exercise the authorities that we have.” ([15:22])
• Advocacy for visible protest and organizing: “Our job is to tap into that and to connect it and to build a powerful coalition.” ([15:22])

4. Looming Government Shutdown: Tactics and Risks ([17:15]–[24:10])

• On her stance: “I, of course, voted no in March, and I'm going to vote no again because…these people are bullies and they will bully you until you say you're not going to be bullied anymore.” ([17:41])
• Smith criticizes the idea of avoiding shutdown at all costs—argues there is “no safe option” and that giving in is just a “blank check.” ([20:11])
• Emphasizes Democrats’ improved coordination in recent talks, but acknowledges risks if Trump ignores even bipartisan deals.
• “Shutdowns are bad,” but pressure and public blame will ultimately fall on Republicans, she contends. ([21:47])

5. Political Violence: From Personal to National ([27:38]–[36:48])

• Personal Impact: After the murder of her friend Rep. Melissa Hortman (Smith was on the hit list), Smith reflects on the trauma: “It shook me. It shook my family…” ([28:15])
• Smith rebuffs the idea that political violence is “not who we are”—traces deep roots to slavery, Tulsa, Wounded Knee, etc.: “Violent behavior is not…an aberration in our country. No, it is part of who we are.” ([30:21])
• On rising political violence and Trump’s role: “What the president and the vice president and Steve Miller and these folks are doing…is so dangerous.” ([30:48])

Confronting Colleagues Over Online Incitement ([32:35])

• Smith recounts directly confronting Sen. Mike Lee over spreading conspiracies after the shootings: “People who do these shitty things are not used to being confronted in person by another human being.” ([32:57])
  • Lee’s response: “I certainly didn’t mean to do any harm.” ([34:13]) “That's very different from saying I did wrong. I'm sorry.” ([34:13])

6. Corruption, Tech, and Institutional Acquiescence ([38:01]–[41:39])

• Swisher and Smith critique legal, tech, education, and corporate sectors for appeasing the Trump administration amid overreach and corruption. The crypto sector is singled out:
  • “[W]hat the Trump family is making billions of dollars on crypto…at the same time that Republican members of Congress…[are] trying to pass laws to…escape from the basic consumer protections…That, to me, is the worst example.” ([39:57])
• On tech companies’ failure to challenge Trump: “I warned you all. I warned you here a couple of years ago…” ([40:58])

7. Senate Retirement and the Problem of Staying Too Long ([42:34]–[46:58])

• Smith on her decision to retire: “I'm 67…When you're 67, you think differently about the next 10 years of your life…” ([42:45])
• She dismisses the idea that her retirement is a political liability, expressing confidence in Democrats holding her seat.
• On why more Senators don’t retire: “Too many of my colleagues have this idea that [they’ll stay] unless something changes…There are tragic examples of people who stayed too long…I think of Dianne Feinstein…” ([45:41])
• Argues legacy lies not just in work done, but making way for new leaders ([46:27]).

8. Barriers for Young Leaders: Money and Institutional Reform ([47:17]–[48:12])

• Campaign finance is a major obstacle: even in Minnesota, she'd raise $15–20 million; in larger races, numbers soar.
• On term/age limits: Smith opposes, viewing them as limiting voter choice, but concedes “people are staying too damn long.” ([48:12])

9. Democratic Party Self-Assessment: Biden’s Campaign, Weaknesses, and the Path Forward ([51:19]–[62:09])

• Swisher presses on why Democrats failed to more assertively address Biden’s waning capacities in 2024.
• Smith admits: “Biden shouldn't have run, I don't think. And I think that he came to that conclusion too late…”
  • “I've never felt so gaslit in my life.” ([54:58]) — on Biden campaign leadership refusing to accept reality, until pressed by Nancy Pelosi.
• Democrats, she says, must move beyond just attacking Trump:
  • “We can’t just accomplish this by telling people how bad Donald Trump is. … We have to get much more clarity about what we are for and not just what we are against.” ([57:03])
• Critiques party's neoliberal approach and failure to communicate via new media, arguing for engagement through social media and podcasts, not just traditional advertising.

10. The Future: Party Leadership, New Voices, and Action ([60:43]–[63:47])

• Smith wants leadership “for the 80% of what Americans want”—practical kitchen-table issues.
• She expresses a desire for “younger, fresh voices”—not gray-bearded gatekeepers.
• On prospects: optimistic about House races if Democrats focus on hope and action.
• Warns Trumpism is not going away even if Trump is: “the MAGA movement that he has built is not going to go away.” ([63:11])

11. What’s Next for Tina Smith? ([63:47]–[64:39])

• She’s in no rush for a new title: “I honestly, I really don't know. I know there’s going to be good work to do.”
• Open to future roles, but for now will finish her term and “see what good trouble I can get up to.” ([63:47])

Notable Quotes

• “Anybody who is surprised that Donald Trump is gonna do what he said he was gonna do has not been paying attention.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith [04:33]

• “We are in the middle of a authoritarian takeover of our country... If we don’t stop it, it’s not gonna stop. He’s not gonna stop.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith [06:42]

• “It's not one thing after the other. It's the same damn thing over and over again.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith quoting Edna St. Vincent Millay [10:15]

• “I mean, as I, you know, Democrats, my party, our party might not be in power, but we are not powerless. And that means we have to exercise the authorities we have.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith [15:22]

• “If you try to appease a bully, it will never end. It only ends when you stand up to them.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith [37:07]

• “I don’t want to be a United States senator until I die. I don’t feel like I’m an old lady, but I also feel like there are other things that I want to do now.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith [43:46]

• “We can’t just accomplish this by telling people how bad Donald Trump is… We have to make it clear that we’re going to fight against the concentrated, powerful interests in this country that are taking all the money and leaving everybody else with the crumbs.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith [57:03]

• “People are staying too damn long in their jobs.”
  — Sen. Tina Smith [49:18]

Important Timestamps for Segments

• DOJ & Comey discussion: [04:07]–[05:50]
• Authoritarian drift/Bannon tactics: [06:42]–[10:16]
• Congressional levers of power: [11:45]–[15:22]
• Shutdown strategy/risks: [17:15]–[24:10]
• Political violence—personal reflections: [27:38]–[36:48]
• Institutional appeasement/corruption: [38:01]–[41:39]
• Senate retirement & generational turnover: [42:34]–[46:58]
• Democratic Party limitations & solutions: [51:19]–[62:09]
• Leadership and the fate of Trumpism: [62:09]–[63:47]
• Sen. Smith on her future: [63:47]–[64:39]

Tone

The conversation is candid and at times wryly humorous (“I live in D.C. and I run into a bunch of them. And one of them also came up to me and said, looks like we won. And I go, but you're still an asshole.” — Swisher [42:04]). Smith is frank, philosophical, never shrill, and maintains a sense of urgency and hope despite deep concerns.

For Listeners

This episode serves as a raw, inside look at legislative gridlock, political peril, and the soul-searching underway in the Democratic Party—filtered through the plainspoken reflections of a senator unburdened by re-election.