The Daily Show's Jordan Klepper Takes on Next-Gen MAGA and the Manosphere

Summary

Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher – "The Daily Show's Jordan Klepper Takes on Next-Gen MAGA and the Manosphere"

Introduction and Background

In the May 15, 2025 episode of On with Kara Swisher, host Kara Swisher engages in an insightful and humorous conversation with Jordan Klepper, the co-host and correspondent of The Daily Show. Jordan Klepper, an award-winning journalist, has been a prominent figure on The Daily Show since 2019, known for his field reporting on President Trump’s campaigns and his unique comedic perspective. Kara introduces Jordan’s latest endeavor, a special titled "MAGA, the Next Generation," which delves into the rising influence of young supporters within the MAGA movement and the impact of the manosphere.

News Coverage and Current Events

The conversation kicks off with Kara asking Jordan about the most traction-gaining stories he’s covering while hosting The Daily Show. Jordan humorously lists a barrage of recent news topics, emphasizing the relentless pace at which news, especially pertaining to Donald Trump, dominates the media landscape.

“We are on orb duty right now. If I step out of this podcast, at any point, you know an orb is being touched or close to being touched.” ([05:44])

Trump 2.0 and Media Saturation

Jordan discusses Trump's latest Middle East trip, highlighting how Trump is treated akin to a crown prince, complete with traditional symbols like horses and swords. This portrayal underscores Trump's enduring ability to stay relevant and command media attention.

“Trump has never disappointed with that. But there's a pace you have to get used to.” ([07:11])

He elaborates on the challenges of covering a figure who consistently floods the news cycle with new stories, making it difficult for satirical news shows to keep pace without becoming overwhelmed.

January 6th Aftermath

Reflecting on his experience covering the Capitol on January 6th, Jordan shares his perspective on the rapidly shifting narratives post-insurrection. He observes that instead of achieving clarity or accountability, the events continue to be reinterpreted, leading to a fragmented understanding of what transpired.

“This is still being churned up in a way where the people who have seen this are creating their own realities out of it.” ([11:46])

Next-Gen MAGA and Young Men

The core of the episode revolves around Jordan's exploration of the next generation within the MAGA movement. He reveals that younger individuals, particularly young men, are increasingly drawn to conservatism influenced by the manosphere and figures like Charlie Kirk and Joe Rogan. Jordan discusses his observations from attending various rallies and campus events, noting a shift in how younger demographics engage with political ideologies.

“Is this suddenly cool? Is this hip? Is this what the magic trick Trump has pulled?” ([16:22])

He underscores the appeal of tribalism, community, and identity that these rallies offer, making them attractive to young men seeking belonging and purpose.

Influence of the Manosphere and Figures Like Charlie Kirk

Jordan delves into how influencers within the manosphere—such as Andrew Tate and Charlie Kirk—effectively communicate certainty and strength, traits that resonate deeply with young, impressionable men. He contrasts this with progressive influencers, suggesting that conservative figures are better at crafting compelling and authoritative personas that attract youth.

“They preach certainty, they preach curiosity, and they look like strong, successful men that when you are a young malleable boy, you're drawn to.” ([25:15])

Progressive Influencers vs. Conservative Influencers

In comparing progressive voices like Hasan Piker to conservative influencers, Jordan highlights a gap in how effectively the left engages young men. While Hasan Piker blends progressive politics with relatable personal interests, conservative influencers offer a more direct and charismatic appeal.

“Hasan Piker was a very authentic person... he also talks about anime.” ([26:21])

Jordan suggests that the left lacks a counterpart to the right’s charismatic influencers, making it harder for progressive voices to captivate the same audience.

Social Media's Role in Shaping Identities

The discussion shifts to the profound impact of social media platforms like TikTok on shaping young men's identities. Jordan recounts experiments showing how algorithms can quickly expose users to extreme content, fostering toxic masculinity and rigid political views.

“The algorithm itself was so discombobulating, it was so aggressive, it scrambled my mind in a way.” ([31:24])

He emphasizes that social media not only bombards youth with specific ideologies but also hampers their ability to engage in self-reflection and develop independent thoughts.

Future of Late Night and Political Satire

Klepper offers his insights on the evolving landscape of late-night shows, particularly how The Daily Show adapts to constant political upheaval. He praises the show's flexibility in hosting rotating hosts and producing varied content that caters to different audience segments, from short social media clips to in-depth specials.

“The Daily show does something Late Night doesn't get to do, which is like you get a monologue based on what happened that day.” ([49:31])

Jordan believes that late-night shows must remain dynamic and multifaceted to stay relevant, leveraging both traditional formats and new media strategies.

Personal Reflections and Experiences

Throughout the conversation, Jordan shares personal anecdotes, including his son's influence on his perspectives and his own cautious approach to politics within his household. He touches upon the challenges of raising a child in a polarized environment and the importance of balance between shielding him and allowing healthy exposure to diverse viewpoints.

“We talk very little politics. So it's mostly Moana, too, at this point.” ([29:46])

Special Highlights from "Next-Gen MAGA"

Highlighting his special, Jordan recounts interviewing young Republicans grappling with the moral contradictions of supporting controversial figures like Andrew Tate. He illustrates the internal conflict these youths face between their personal values and the aggressive, attention-seeking strategies promoted within the MAGA movement.

“The MAGA playbook is do the most outlandish thing to own the libs, no matter the consequence.” ([51:21])

This segment poignantly captures the struggle of young individuals trying to reconcile their empathy and humanity with the demands of the political identity they've adopted.

Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Kara commends Jordan for his balanced approach to serious topics infused with humor. The conversation underscores the complexities of modern political movements, the significant influence of social media, and the evolving nature of political satire in late-night media. Jordan Klepper’s insights offer a nuanced understanding of how younger generations are navigating the polarized political landscape, making this episode both informative and thought-provoking.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “We're on orb duty right now. If I step out of this podcast, at any point, you know an orb is being touched or close to being touched.” – Jordan Klepper [05:44]

• “Is this suddenly cool? Is this hip? Is this what the magic trick Trump has pulled?” – Jordan Klepper [16:22]

• “They preach certainty, they preach curiosity, and they look like strong, successful men…” – Jordan Klepper [25:15]

• “The algorithm itself was so discombobulating, it was so aggressive, it scrambled my mind in a way.” – Jordan Klepper [31:24]

• “The MAGA playbook is do the most outlandish thing to own the libs, no matter the consequence.” – Jordan Klepper [51:21]

This episode of On with Kara Swisher provides a comprehensive exploration of the intertwined dynamics between youth political engagement, media influence, and the shifting paradigms of political comedy. Jordan Klepper’s candid reflections and analytical insights make for a compelling listen, shedding light on critical issues facing contemporary American society.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

You are the fourth Daily show host I've interviewed. I have a thing for you people.

[Jordan Klepper]

Collect the whole set. Congratulations. I will.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes.

[Jordan Klepper]

I'm a little offended I'm this low on the totem pole. But if you had to choose one, if you had to pick one, your favorite, Jesse, obviously. Okay, fair enough.

[Kara Swisher]

Come on, come on. I'm a lesbian. I have to pick the girl.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's on.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi, everyone From New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network, this is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is the Daily Show's co host and correspondent, Jordan Klepper. Klepper started on the Daily show in 2014, and he covered President Trump's 2016 presidential campaign from the trail into the White House. After a brief stint on his own Late Late show, the Opposition, in which he played right wing pundit in kind of an Alex Jones Infowars spoof, Klepper came back to the Daily show as a correspondent in 2019, just in time to finger the pulse of Trump's 2020 reelection campaign. Klepper went to Trump rallies across the country, following mag from parking lots in Midwestern towns all the way to the steps of the capitol building on January 6, 2021. And then he got the hell out of there. Since 2023, Klepper has been part of the rotating roster of these Daily show hosts, manning the desk alongside Jon Stewart. But when Trump decided to run again, Klepper was the obvious choice to go back in the field, reuniting with his old MAGA friends. I really like Jordan Klepper. He makes me laugh. I'm a big fan. I like when he goes out into Magaland and comes back with these very funny interviews with people on the street. As a field reporter, one of the differences that he and others have not between Trump 1.0 and 2.0 is the growing number of young people, especially young men, who are now in the Republican fold. The Next Generation is the name of Klepper's latest special, which comes out next week. I'm looking forward to talking about what he's uncovered in this reporting journey, the trends he's seeing in this younger generation of Trump acolytes, the impact of the manosphere, influencers like Joe Rogan and Charlie Kirk, and the role the conservative comics are playing. Our expert question this week comes from CNN's Ellie Reeve, who has also reported deeply on the negative impact of social media on young I also want to talk to Klepper about the future of Late Night and whether this brand of political satire has the same pull that it used to have. Klepper is funny but also very informed and thinks deeply about stuff. It's going to be a great conversation, so stay with us. Support for this show comes from smartsheet. Your team is innovative. Your team is ready to achieve the impossible. Innovative teams use Smartsheet to defy expectations, spur growth, and make the impossible possible. Smartsheet is the work management platform that allows teams to automate workflows and seamlessly adapt as their work evolves. Whether you're managing projects or scaling operations, smartsheet gives you the tools to cut through chaos and reach your team's full potential. With smartsheet. The extraordinary is just another day at work. Smartsheet Work with flow see how Smartsheet can transform the way you work at smartsheet.com that's smartsheet.com support for this show comes from HubSpot. Let's be honest, most business software promises the world but rarely delivers. Clunky interfaces, endless tabs, and AI that somehow makes work more complicated. HubSpot is actually doing something interesting with Breeze. Their suite of AI tools and breez is built right into their customer platform so you can get more done faster. They even have a whole fleet of AI agents that do work for you. Breeze agents can do everything from creating content to prospecting to handling service tickets, all to help you get results fast. And it's working. Marketing, sales and service teams are cutting sales cycles in half and saving hours on work every week. Go to HubSpot.com AI to get started today. Support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E Trade you can dive into the market with easy to use tools, zero dollar commissions and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. You can get access to industry leading research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to a thousand dollars or more with a qualifying deposit. Get started [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves Risks Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley. All right Jordan, thank you for being on on. We have a lot to talk about, including your new special which I am so excited for. I do a podcast with Scott Galloway. He talks about the manosphere all the time. It's coming out next week, but first I want to get your take on some news Right now. To start with, you're hosting the Daily show this week which of these stories are gaining the most traction. I'm going to give you a list. The U.S. china trade deal. House Republicans proposing cuts to Medicaid, President Trump's Gul Tour and luxury 747 airliner. The Qataris want him to replace Air Force One with the top buyers of the Trump meme coin winning the White House dinner or none of the above.

[Jordan Klepper]

And this is all what happened in the last 20 minutes?

[Kara Swisher]

20 minutes exactly right? Exactly.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes. We had a morning meeting a few hours ago looking at many of these stories. The up and down stock market, to us, we're like, that's going to be an ongoing story for the next 700 years. So we're less eager to jump on board that. For today's show, these images were coming back of his Middle east trip which Donald Trump going to Saudi Arabia where he suddenly is treated like the crown prince, that he wants to be surrounded by horses and swords. It's the type of. It's the type of vibe that I think Trump just feels most at home.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Remember the globe that they were all.

[Jordan Klepper]

Around that weird get around the orb.

[Kara Swisher]

The orb.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, we're all taking bets right now. If there's an orb, if he's going to touch it, what kind of powers he might get from it. So we are, we're on orb duty right now. If I step out of this podcast, at any point, you know an orb is being touched or close to being touched.

[Kara Swisher]

So orb would be your hope.

[Jordan Klepper]

Orb would. Orb is. You start with orb, then you Talk, talk about $400 million Air Force One grift that's up there. And just Trump in the Middle east is something we were keeping an eye on and trying to kind of right now we're crafting a show around his.

[Kara Swisher]

Big trip, a giant bag of money. How big is his bag of money? Where he's gonna. Where he's gon.

[Jordan Klepper]

You know, all those things are very important topics. But then an image came out that There's a portable McDonald's truck that is set up in Riyadh right now, which as a comedy show for him. All eyes are drawn to this. If we are really bringing fast food to Donald Trump as perhaps a Trojan horse, we wanna watch that breathlessly.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. See, this is the great news. This is the news of the day. One of the things that's good for you all and it's good for Comedy is Trump 2.0 has flood the zone. Feels like the theme of the administration at this point. I spoke to Atlantic's Ashley Parker on the show last week and she said that she just did the interview with Trump, the long interview. She said that Trump's team admitted its strategy is meant to screw with the press, knowing they won't be able to cover everything. So this is good for the Daily show, presumably, with so many stories. Cuz you don't really care if it's a distraction because the distraction c or is something you're interested in.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, I mean, Carol, we are still at the Daily Show. We are still human beings who have to exist in a world that Donald Trump floods the zone with. So our souls are bombarded with chaos and stories. I think as a comedy show, it is good to have input and things to craft comedy out of. And Trump has never disappointed with that. But there's a pace you have to get used to. You know, Trump has never left the news cycle since he jumped into it 400 years ago. But when he got back for Trump 2.0, I think there was a shock to the system and sort of a reminder the pace that he was moving at. And again, you could feel it. We are a fake news show whose bias it's towards finding comedy. We take it very seriously, but we are still trying to find where the humor is, some perspective and a take that we can have. But we understand what other newsrooms are going through. And it is. It's just a constant bombardment where your attempt to add something to a story that's ever changing and also getting more distracting.

[Kara Swisher]

You think you have a great story and then he does something else. Like suddenly RFK jumps into an E. Coli pond, for example.

[Jordan Klepper]

Can you believe that?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I can. Yes, I can.

[Jordan Klepper]

That's not on our comedy show tonight. RFK Jr. Is swimming in a sewer pond. A sewer river.

[Kara Swisher]

Sewer stream.

[Jordan Klepper]

Sewer, sewer stream. He's a sewer stream. A creek. A creek.

[Kara Swisher]

Creek of stream. Creek of poop. Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

A shit creek.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, shit creek.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, he's swimming in a shit creek. And the comedy show's like, I'm sorry, we already have too much stuff to deal with with that going on.

[Kara Swisher]

Are you not gonna get back to the shit creek?

[Jordan Klepper]

I feel like, you know, you might be gone. God is my witness, we will get to shit creek.

[Kara Swisher]

So one of the things you did say, you know, you're fake news. But a lot of viewers, including my two older son, the Daily show is the main source of news. And actually you do do a great and trenchant job of analyzing the news among many. You have gone out into the Magaverse and you were a field Reporter. Really? For Daily Show. You covered President Trump's 2016 campaign and then 2020, and so many MAGA. What's the number of MAGA rallies you've been to?

[Jordan Klepper]

It feels like infinity. I started going in 2015, all the way up until now, so it's. I don't have a number, but it feels like all of them.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. And then you also were at the Capitol on January 6th, working.

[Jordan Klepper]

I was working on January 6th, yep. Yep. Although, I don't know, maybe I was also insurrectioning. If that gets me a pardon and a Fox News job, I'll take it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you did take a pen from Nancy Pelosi's office, but it was all over in 2021. You were sitting in an empty parking lot. I wanna play this clip from. Into the Magaverse roundup that you did.

[Jordan Klepper]

So that's it. The MAGA rally journey is over, and President Trump's ending is not unlike that of the ancient king Ozymandias, his wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command, looking across this vast emptiness that was once his empire. Look on his works, ye mighty in despair. Anyway, I'm just gonna stay here so I can be first in line when the rallies start up again in 2023 or when Don Jr. Runs in 28. I'll always be here. I guess this is my life now. Ha ha, ha.

[Kara Swisher]

Nothing but.

[Jordan Klepper]

Sandra, why did you have to play that? That really. That's taking me to a dark spot.

[Kara Swisher]

I know it is. It is. But here you are again. That was the point. Most people had written Trump off. Sand. Sand. Only sand remains, or whatever. The last line of that is. Not to call you a prophet, but you really did think there was a Trump 2.0. You kind of called it.

[Jordan Klepper]

You know, it was interesting going out after being there January 6th.

[Kara Swisher]

Mm.

[Jordan Klepper]

That felt like. You know, honestly, what has become even infuriating is watching the conversations on January 7, hearing what Lindy Graham said about that day. And there seemed to be a moment where the world, the left and the right, saw something happened and could admit that they existed in the same plane of reality and therefore were moving forward beyond it. And so it did, for a moment, feel like maybe there's a clean break from what this is. And I went to a few events after January 6th, and what was amazing was just how quickly that narrative was shifting on the ground. And that narrative never actually settled as to whether it was antifa, whether these people were heroes. You know, it became sort of this muddled mess of what supposedly happened. Just accountability was Nowhere to be found. But the narrative kept bouncing around. But it jumped so quick to the point that I think within a month after January 6th, it was like, oh, this is, this is not settling in a way that we are going to regard it as history and move on and. Or learn from it. This is still being churned up in a way where the people who have seen this are creating their own realities out of it. This is not dying, it's being birthed anew.

[Kara Swisher]

Because Kevin McCarthy was down there pretty quickly.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, he went down. Yeah, like a few weeks later he went down.

[Kara Swisher]

Were you surprised by that?

[Jordan Klepper]

Again, I'm rarely surprised by any of this. I think the part of me that has a modicum of surprise, it's the 14 year old me that has a little bit of hope for American institutions and the things that I was taught. Our better angels come through and they're moving on some sort of arc. And again, in that moment in January 6th, I was like, oh, perhaps this is us moving beyond that. Now we're looking at 2.0. And yeah, the cynicism has stayed within me. I've watched these conversations shift.

[Kara Swisher]

They didn't wanna leave the story. I remember my grandmother, she liked the stories, right. She was watching soap operas. But to me, he's building a narrative, right. And that's. He's like a movie or a TV show or something like that, which he's good at. But it feels like you were Prepar for Trump 2.0 in 2022. You took your Jordan Klepper fingers, the Pulse, which is the best, I think, production name I've ever heard. Reporting to Hungary for the special you wrote, hosted and produced. President Trump obviously buddied up to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban in the first term. The European Parliament had declared Hungary to be an autocracy. Talk about why you wanted to go there. And what was your biggest takeaway from that trip? Cause you were still going, you were still searching for your Maga at that time.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, at that time. You know, Orban feels like quite some time ago, but Orban was being welcomed to cpac, which again, you know, that Overton window keeps nudging over. And a year before that, the idea of Viktor Orban being supported and lauded in the conservative movement was ridiculous. And then suddenly Orban was being talked about at cpac. And so we went to CPAC and we talked to people about it and this authoritarian rule and how people saw what was happening in Hungary. And it felt for us like the writing's on the wall. This is where the conservative movement is heading. These are the people they're putting up on their pedestals. There's no surprise, because people have been talking about what they want for years. And if at cpac, they're saying, this is the guy, this is what we want Donald Trump to do, then it's like, well, let's go see what Viktor Orban is doing. And it's right there also, let's be honest, Budapest, lovely city. They shoot a lot of wonderful films there. So, like, you know, I'm half looking for a great vacation as well. Four Seasons Budapest, you gotta spend time there. It's really. It's where you meet all the big swingin Dick Hollywood execs there. You dabble in autocracy, and then you hang out with the cast and crew of Jack Ryan.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? That's right. That's right. They film there.

[Jordan Klepper]

That's literally what it is.

[Kara Swisher]

So do you. What did you imagine after going to Hungary was gonna happen here, and how do you assess the situation right now?

[Jordan Klepper]

I think what was really interesting to see was the way in which they controlled the public education there. The liberal school that had been shift and moved and frankly left and went to Vienna. Like, I think there was so much that I noticed on the ground that was like, oh, this. My dark vision of what an autocracy looks like is perhaps some caricature of old Russia. Or you go there and everything is shut down. You have no access to anything. And I was like, oh, no, this feels like a European city. I understand how this still works as a city. I also understand how people come in and out of this city. That feels like normal. Like a normal American city as well. But then I'm like, oh, so what happened to the university and the professors there? And you hear the limitations they had partially put on by the government, but also partially by the government shutting things down so that they had to move and that they went to Austria at that time, I think talking again to people who were part of the LGBTQ community there, like, things started to shut down in a way that we quickly saw happen over here as well. It was like, oh, the language starts to get changed. Oh, the Constitution starts to get written so that the language has changed or something. The rights that you have have now been stripped away from you. And so it's not as if you are in jail right now, but suddenly you have a child or you're in the middle of an adoption process, and suddenly that has now ended, and now you suddenly feel now you're getting discriminated against at your job because the writing has shifted and now the media is the media. Can they not say anything? No. They can be critical of Orban. Who can. That guy, that one guy, he's the only guy who has a platform to talk. And because of the state run media, state funded media, it suddenly, it encompasses everything people interact with and see. And so then when we talked to the person who was running against Viktor Orban and he couldn't get a microphone in front of him to get his message out, and so you saw a deadening of the culture.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you see that happening here? Do you see as you come back here, as you started doing this next generation, this special, it's called maga, the Next Generation. It's a special coming out next week. Did you anticipate or see that that's happening here?

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes. I mean, I do think in terms of the language is certainly being shifted. Again, we talked, we mentioned the Overton window here. It's like, oh, we're getting more and more comfortable with the land grab that Donald Trump has taken with this special. You know, what we were seeing with electoral results was so many young kids kind of leaning right, especially this manosphere, this bro world. And so for us, it was, it was like, oh, wow, are people buying into this more than they were before? Is this suddenly cool? Is this hip? Is this what the magic trip Trump has pulled? And the cynic in me thought I would find just hands down, people who are mini Marco Rubio's, many Ted Cruz's, many Donald trumps in 18 year old form. And there were elements of it and there was conservatism that was there. I think what I often see at Trump rallies was people are drawn to the tribalism, the community that is there, the identity that they get, the fun. It's fun. It's fun.

[Kara Swisher]

That was really interesting. So the impetus for doing it was to find out and did you have a goal going in to change their minds or what was. Or just to see?

[Jordan Klepper]

It was mostly to see. Yeah. I mean, I feel like when I go to the Trump rallies, there's just a plethora of old people hypocrisy. Yeah. And so to hear that suddenly college kids think Charlie Kirk is cool is a question. And the larger question I had is like, is there a true conservative ideology embedded in these 18 year olds? Is that what they're. Are they drawn to an ideology, a morality that is there or is it just for clicks? And as you go in there, like, I was impressed with the empathy and humanity of the 18 year olds that I talked to, I thought they would be cynical and potentially cruel. And what I realized, the cruelty is something you learn. It's something that's embedded by these older folks who are manipulating that space. So when I went to Texas A and M and I talked to people, very conservative school, very religious school, and they have. Many of the people I talked to had conservative leanings, but they were very open. They were very open to hear what people had to say. And Charlie Kirk comes on campus and he's famous. They've seen him online and on TikTok. He gets clicks and he shows up and it's a thing. He throws out a bunch of hats. People grab the hats, they put on the hats, everybody's wearing Trump hats. And you're like, it's not that you don't have conservative leanings, but I see you right now and I see you creating an identity for yourself based around a free hat, based around somebody who gets attention, which for an 18 year old attention is there. The king of all kings. You wanna be an influencer and you find somebody who finds success in that. And there's nobody in a liberal space who's speaking to you. And so I see you starting to graft onto that Persona. But what I don't see is a cruelty or a meanness that old me was projecting onto you. I see an openness. I see somebody who doesn't know when.

[Kara Swisher]

You were pushing them. They're like, oh, yeah, good point. I mean, it wasn't sort of the anger thing. It was, well, yeah, you're right.

[Jordan Klepper]

More often than not, when I ask them why they were seeking out Charlie Kirk, they're like, he explained things so well. He's so interesting. He thinks about stuff, he gives you answers. You're curious. I loved Christopher Hitchens back in the day and I loved his contrarian nature. I loved that he was articulate. I don't think I loved his politics, but I was compelled by an articulate voice that these kids earnestly crave.

[Kara Swisher]

He has answers, right? He has answers to very. Life is complex. And if you could give a short answer or something easy. And it's also put to you in a question which I think is really interesting. I was talking to Charlemagne Tha God, who's often on the Daily show, and last night he was making a really good point. It's like the problem with the media is they ask the question, is it unconstitutional to take the plane? They're asking it like a question. So that puts it in the minds of people that we should ask that question when in fact the answer is, yes, it fucking is. Stop. Why are we doing that? And so these kids are looking for certainty, I would imagine, isn't it?

[Jordan Klepper]

They are looking for certainty. They want somebody to tell them how to find, like, where I have empathy. It's hard to leave college and find your identity, find a job, find purpose. And this person who you know is famous, comes to your campus and they tell you, I have the answer. Take these tools. They glom onto that. Also, there's a trick that happened again when we were at this Turning Point event. I thought it was just about these people. They're learning conservative ideology because Lara Trump was there, Charlie Kirk was there, and they're talking about conservative talking points, but they're also debating people. The point of those things is that it's an open debate for college students. And what ends up happening is like, on its surface, I love that there's debates happening. I think there should be debates happening on campuses. It's great that that's happening. And you don't have to agree with everybody, but the people who went there, they're going there to debate. But it's a performance of liberal hyperbole and anger, where there's a lot of people who show up who are on the left side of things, who are angry and want to engage with Charlie Kirk. And they line up and they fight Charlie Kirk, and they're 18 or 19 and they're upset and they've been waiting in line for 40 minutes and they get in a screaming match with Charlie kirk and he's 31 and he's calm and he's relaxed and he talks to them. And then when I talk to the people who watch that, I asked them, what'd you think? And they're like, you know, I've been hearing about how the left are just these lunatics who are so outraged. And I mean, I didn't think it was true. And then I saw it and you're like, oh, that's part of what's happening on this campus, right?

[Kara Swisher]

They're creating it. They're creating it.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's a performance of liberal outrage that they've created so a campus can see it and build their ideology against it.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be back in a minute. Support for this show comes from Trinet. Trinet's full range of HR solutions were built for purpose driven companies such as Zymo Research, whose focus on biomedical innovations have advanced the early diagnosis and prevention of disease with a goal to positively impact human lives and deliver the next generation of healthcare. And when they needed a provider of HR solutions to help them recruit top talent, they went with Trinet. TriNet's industry leading HR expertise can help your business too, whether you're looking for support with payroll, compliance, access to Benefits or strategic HR. That's because TriNet understands the real key to success is in taking care of people that make it all happen. Trinet can also help you scale providing industry leading expertise to help you grow your team, attract top talent and stay competitive regardless of your size. So if you're a visionary looking for a must have HR advisor to help you grow your business, consider Trinet. You can learn what Trinet can do for your [e-mail] Vox that's T R-I-N-E-T.com Vox to get started Trinet your path Their Purpose Support for On with Kara Swisher comes from Virgin Atlantic Trains, Planes and Automobiles Besides being a good movie, they are an essential part of our travel experience. But we don't want just essentials, we want to have a bit of luxury doing it. Virgin Atlantic takes the VIP treatment to the next level with a private wing to check in and your own security channel. At Linden Heathrow, you can glide from car to Clubhouse lounge, a destination in its own right, in 10 minutes or less. On board you'll find a dedicated bar and social space and your own private suite to stretch out in, with lots of space to store all your bits and bobs, a lay flat bed and delicious dining from beginning to end. Just be sure to leave room for dessert. Their mile high tea with all the little cakes and sandwiches is a Showstopper. Check out VirginAtlantic.com for your next trip to London and beyond and see for yourself how traveling for business can always be a pleasure. Support for this show comes from Nordstrom. Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever, from beach days and weddings to weekend getaways and your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly and Madewell. It's easy too, with free shipping and free returns in store order pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail] or download the Nordstrom so two years ago you did a long story short on the Daily show about Andrew Tate and the lack of male role models for young ung. This is something my Pivot co host Scott Galloway talks often about. We talk about it on the show. He's coming out with a book on it. And one of the things he's arguing is that you just need different male influences. Right. That the right has managed to create a whole bunch of characters, sort of action figures, and the ones on the left aren't very good or interesting or articulate enough. So do you see any difference between influencers like Andrew Tate, political actors like Charlie Kirk or Joe Rogan and how they're perceived by this generation? I do think the shine is off a lot of them, I have to say. I think for some reason you can feel it. Are they fundamentally the same or different with slightly different colors essentially, and hues?

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, I think there's a lot of. I think those are all very different types of influencers in that sphere. I think you see the success of Joe Rogan is that people want. People are curious. I talk to a lot of young men who have time. Have three hours in the day that they want to listen to somebody talk to. They want Joe Rogan to talk to a conspiracy theorist. But also Joe Rogan will talk to a beekeeper for three hours. And there's a 25 year old dude who's like, yeah, I want. I'm curious.

[Kara Swisher]

I want to hear about macros.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, I think Andrew Tate is pitching, you know, the old cars, sex power. He's pitching that to 12 year olds. And I think you have a lot of stunted men who are looking for attention and I think kids are getting it early on. So I see what they're drawn to as well. And, you know, more often than not, what I understand the appeal here is they preach certainty, they preach curiosity, and they look like strong, successful men that when you are a young malleable boy, you're drawn to. I spent a little time in this special with Hasan Piker, who I thought was.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about them. The New York Times has called him a progressive mind and a body made for the manosphere. Talk a little bit about that interview.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, I mean, I think liberal media suddenly loved Hassan Piker because he's a twitch streamer. He has like 2.8 million followers. He talks about progressive policies for eight hours a day, but he also talks about culture and life. He gets clicks also because he works out in his backyard. He's got anime pictures in his background. And when I spent some time with him, what I really liked about Hasan, he was a very authentic person. And he felt like a very different generation than me. As somebody who understands what progressives in their 40s feel like, what the guardrails are and the Ways in which you should take certain topics seriously and how you should skew other topics like Hasan, bikers. Like, no, I work out. I like working out. I like to post videos about working out. I also like to fight the billionaire class and talk about socialism and then I like to talk about anime. And it's a much more authentic, casual conversation. And the thing that resonated most with me is when I talked to him I was like, you know, the media cycle is so exhausting right now. How do you stop from going crazy? And I'm paraphrasing him, but he mentioned like, you know, he makes as much noise about the things he cares about as he can and then he focuses on self improvement. He's like, it's the thing you can control. And the left gets so weird about like it's about image, it's about this. And that's toxic masculinity. It's like, nah, dude, that's a guy like doing push ups who feels good about himself, right? And for a 24 year old who's like, man, I just, what can I control that I can feel good about? Give me a hero's journey. Even the tiniest hero's journey. What do you got for me?

[Kara Swisher]

He's also getting through his messages via that, right? And also Elon Musk sucks, right? And he's taking your shit. Macros and also Elon Musk. You know what I mean? I only say macros cause my 20 year old son talks about macros all the fucking time.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, he's able to connect with the things kids are talking about. But beyond that, it's fun. It's easy on the left for people to say, well, look at these videos of cars and these hyper masculine traits that have, they can go awry. But you have an 18 year old who's looking to attach something that feels fun and playful and somebody who can speak authentically about traditionally masculine things that isn't boxed in by an idea that I have to be the perfect version of this. But it can be complicated.

[Kara Swisher]

Why aren't more progressive voices getting that kind of traction among young male audiences? Like Piker, for example? Why aren't there more of them? Because I would assume they could be just as appealing and just as well. I don't think Charlie Clark is cool, but I get the point you're making.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, I mean, I think I laughed at him.

[Kara Swisher]

He's completely uncool. He's like deeply uncool.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, that's what's so interesting. You see, it's not as if the right is killing it in this sphere, if Charlie Kirk is cool, there is space for other people to step in and be cool.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? Right.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's out there. I think I made the joke that Keanu Reeves is like the ultimate cool, like progressive cool of somebody who could be respectful and interesting and literally be the Matrix is the one.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, Right.

[Jordan Klepper]

I think it's interacting in those spheres. I think there's a misunderstanding when people talk about who's the Joe Rogan of the left. And I think there's a misunderstanding that Joe Rogan is mostly a cultural commentator who kind of talks about politics. I'm like, the Joe Rogan of the left is more like Travis Kel than anybody else. It's being able to engage in a space where your life isn't defined around one political ideology, but that you're interested in culture and you're comfortable in who you are, and that exudes itself to something else.

[Kara Swisher]

So in your Interchait piece, you said the biggest goal was not to end up interviewing your own son at a MAGA rally someday. Has it changed the way you think about politics, talking about it with your son, et cetera?

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes. I mean, my son is.

[Kara Swisher]

How old is he?

[Jordan Klepper]

He's four and a half.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay.

[Jordan Klepper]

So we talk very little politics.

[Kara Swisher]

So it's mostly Moana, too, at this point.

[Jordan Klepper]

We talk Moana too. And he's a big Jill Stein guy, so I don't want to get into that with him.

[Kara Swisher]

Paw Patrol, where you can talk about Copaganda.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes. I was gonna say Paw Pat. Don't even get into Paw Patrol.

[Kara Swisher]

I fucking hate Paw Patrol.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh, my God. The institutionalized back the blue methodology that's inside that Copaganda.

[Kara Swisher]

My young son loves it. My three year old loves Paw Patrol. And my older son walked by and he goes. And I'm like, well, they do nice things for the people of the town.

[Jordan Klepper]

But I think that's also. You've pinpointed the crux of where, like, progressivism is having a really hard time right now. Because I know people who, like, push that out and they won't watch Paw Patrol because of what is back behind it. And you're also like, but guys, you're gonna have to be able. It's not just bluey. Sometimes the left gets a bluey, and it's lovely and it's great and it's perfect. It's able to deal with humanity in these other ways. But the left has to open up their circle. So it's not just bluey. It's also Paw patrol, maybe a blippi sneak. Like the world is complicated.

[Kara Swisher]

So did this. Were you worried about your son being at a MAGA rally?

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes. Well, I mean of the future. Yes. In the sense that, I mean, when you have a child in this weird culture we're in right now, everything is filtered through that of like, what do I want to expose my kid to? How can my kid be useful within this environment? How can he be safe but also be tough in this space?

[Kara Swisher]

Or not taken in.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah. And not be gullible. And I mean I'm like, I'm a Luddite at heart and so I see what's happening here. For this, for the special. I got on TikTok for the first time and my mind is blown.

[Kara Swisher]

The first time?

[Jordan Klepper]

First time.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, what's in your feed? I'm curious since you've never been there.

[Jordan Klepper]

There was a study that was done last year that essentially created a blank 16 year old. And within like 20 minutes or so, suddenly anti feminist, toxic masculinity all started feeding in there. And so we were like, let's try this out. What does it actually look like if you just create 16 year old male, pop it on, what starts coming at you? And very quickly some right wing stuff started to pop into that algorithm. But even top line for me was just the algorithm. The interface itself was so discombobulating, it was so aggressive, it scrambled my mind in a way that look at this.

[Kara Swisher]

Look at this, look at this.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, it numbed me to.

[Kara Swisher]

You can't look away.

[Jordan Klepper]

Actually, you can't look away. And also you can't emotionally experience anything. I think above all, all of this social media stuff, it takes you away from actually being with yourself. And you realize you talk to an 18 year old if they're with themselves and figure out what they think about. They got interesting, complicated, open ideas. If you put a screen in front of their face that says don't think about, don't think about, don't think about it, then all they're doing is reflecting the thing that's on the screen the most. And more often than not, it's right wingers who get in that space or it's corporations who are just like, you need this loud, loud. Materialism, capitalism, that's what you're reflecting back at the world. So it's less that we're creating K who are cruel with bad intentions, we're creating reflections of the media that we're shoving down their throat and that, that in and of itself is toxic.

[Kara Swisher]

So last question is, when you were doing this. Did you think the Charlie Kirk's rules were being effective by being there? And is there any. Besides Hassan, is there any counterpoint to what the Democrats could do? Do you think the left has gotten the message of humor and certainty and different messaging?

[Jordan Klepper]

I think they are focus testing this message. They feel really optimistic about learning about this message. And they will talk to other people and put them in the ring in a way that they can effectively articulate this message.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, now you've lost me.

[Jordan Klepper]

I think they're really looking hard at.

[Kara Swisher]

This message, this problem. Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, when I look at who will make a dent here, Charlie Kirk is making a dent. He's on campus. Love him or hate him, he feels authentic to these kids. And he also knows how to talk to him on the device that they talk to. I think what the Democrats are looking for, they're not gonna create in a lab. And it's not gonna have a prescribed political ideology. It might be more moderate than people think, it might be more left than people think, but it's gonna feel authentic.

[Kara Swisher]

It seems like AOC and Bernie show is kind of interesting.

[Jordan Klepper]

I think that's the one version where you're like, AOC and Bernie resonate with people. When they show up, even if you don't like them, even if you don't like them, you believe them. Bernie, again, Bernie's not. Not Hasan Piker. Hasan Piker really likes Bernie Sanders. And they're both authentic in very different ways, but they're both authentic. And so I think the left has space for that. And quite frankly, they keep thinking, who can be in a podcast to do that? A podcast is a very revealing place. Joe Rogan talks for three hours. People talk for a long amount of time. They expose who they are. And I think if they engage in places where they are more open, more authentic, more curious, like, I think think voices and faces will resonate with a younger generation. But you're not going to be able to plan it. You're just going to have to leave space for it to occur.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be back in a minute.

[Jordan Klepper]

How much money does it actually cost to do a home renovation? This week on Net Worth and Chill, I'm joined by Bachelorette contestant turned home renovation expert expert Tyler Cameron. From having just 200 in his bank account to getting a TV show on Amazon prime, this episode is packed with practical advice. Whether you're a homeowner or just hoping.

[Kara Swisher]

To be one someday.

[Jordan Klepper]

2.

[Kara Swisher]

Two ways to take this. First one is if you're gonna renovate Your home.

[Jordan Klepper]

Why are you doing it? Are you doing it to make money? If so, then I'd focus on your kitchen. I'd focus on your bathrooms. Plus get the inside scoop on which projects are worth diying and which are.

[Kara Swisher]

Better left to the property. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF.

[Jordan Klepper]

In most ways, Google and Apple are ruthless competitors. But then a high powered Apple executive gets up on the stand at the trial that might break up Google and argues that actually Google's fine and the best thing you can do is leave it alone. Why? Because Google being Left alone means $20 billion a year for Apple. On the Vertcast this week, we talk all about what's going on at the Google trial. Plus the latest from the efforts to break up meta, what's going on with Netflix, and lots more. All that on the Vergecast wherever you get podcasts.

[Kara Swisher]

So every week we get a question from an outside expert and we've got a great one for you. Hi, I'm Ellie Reeve, CNN correspondent and author of Black Pill, a book about how the darkest corners of the Internet American politics. Jordan, you and I have covered the same events and at least once interviewed the same person. And I think that's because we're both drawn to the absurd. That's also consequential. And so I'm wondering what you think of a story I'm working on now, which is about this new class of right wing comedians who are reaching millions of young men through their podcasts on YouTube. When I was young, it was all about Jon Stewart. The Daily show was offering these searing indictments of the Bush administration and there was this idea that conservatives just weren't funny. And now that's totally changed. So I'm wondering what you think about that and whether it's hard for you to reach young men today.

[Jordan Klepper]

That is a, that's a great question. I mean, I think comedy, to me, I've always found resonance in people in the political space. The George Carlins, the Lenny Bruces, the Jon Stewarts who call out bullshit where they see it and poke holes at those in power. They're tickling the feet of the giants, if you will. And so there's space on the left and the right, and I think there's good comedians who are able to work in both of those spaces and not be pigeonholed into one. Left or right, Right wing comedians. There's of course, space for people to connect again. I think it's what I always say is like the job of A comedian is to read the room and speak to what that room is. Our rooms are getting more and more one sided. And so I think there are right wing rooms that people speak within that. I think an issue I always have is sometimes they talk about like these truth tellers and these right wingers and these podcast bros, bold truth tellers, These bold truth tellers willing to say what they want to say, you know, and they don't have to be tied down. They're not these lefty lips. So like, yeah, they will fuck it. There's no constraints. And then they have Elon Musk on and kiss his ass or Donald Trump on and just compliment him and not push him. And. And you can do whatever you want in this podcast space or this comedy space. But in some ways where I think right wing comedy to me has not appealed to me is that you are praising the actions of cruelty as opposed to calling out those in power and perhaps finding levity in the people who are fighting back against them. I think if you're always looking at the victims of the cruelty as the punchlines of your jokes, to me that's a comedic space that is less appealing.

[Kara Swisher]

There seems to be right now this Trump pivot. Tim Allen's a new sitcom shifting gears has become a surprise hit. He plays essentially Archie Bunker, which used to exist, by the way. Everyone's like, oh, he's winning with an Archie Bunker. I'm like, archie Bunker was a hit for lots of reasons. Live cop shows are coming back. A and E is bringing back Duck Dynasty. Thank God the conservatives are calling it a course correction. Hollywood says they want to appeal to fly over America. What do you think about this? Is there an opposite? Was there. Is it a course correction? And do you think that it will have an impact on the entertainment business at all?

[Jordan Klepper]

It's interesting here. Like, I think there are always audiences in different corners. The Tim Allen show is an interesting one because. So Tim Allen's my mom's cousin.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow.

[Jordan Klepper]

And he was my dad's college roommate and it's why my parents met.

[Kara Swisher]

What?

[Jordan Klepper]

So, okay, wow. So Tim Allen is a part of my life. I see. I used to see cousin Tim, Uncle Tim at Thanksgivings when he would come back into Detroit. So I know Tim.

[Kara Swisher]

This was the Santa Claus phase.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is Santa Claus phase. Tim was on Home Improvement. He did Santa Claus. And Tim is a lovely guy. Libertarian beliefs. When we meet now and see each other, we usually fight over politics in a lovely comedian, funny way. And I get it as somebody who knows Tim and Somebody who's on the Daily Show, a progressive show. People come up to me and they'll talk about that Tim Allen show. And I'm like, here's what's complicated about it. Tim Allen is a lovely, funny, nice guy. He's not a cruel guy. He's a funny guy. He's got libertarian views. He likes to be a contrarian. He likes to push buttons. And I know he's doing a show that might not appeal to you because he's playing in that lane, but I know it plays to a lot of people, and I get what is appealing about it. And I think in an America that I want to live in, these shows exist with other shows in ways that are softening towards these people who have political beliefs that are outside our own. But that doesn't define who they are completely. And so, yes. Am I afraid sometimes that the entertainment industry will course correct in a way that they are trying to appease a Trump administration? Yeah, I think that's something that is worrisome to me. And when we talked about seeing what's happening in other countries, it's like, oh, yeah, I think, is there a finger that could be put on the scale? Totally could be. And that is worrisome and scary as shit. But I'm also not like knee jerk upset about a proliferation of other types of show that have different audiences, because I think that is also important in the weirdness of what Hollywood is right now. Like, there's a lot of space for different types of stories, and some are gonna work and some are not. And I think we're gonna test that out in the next coming year.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you see something like Sinners, which is all about racism. It is. It really is. And it's a huge hit. It's like, it depends. So a lot of the debate of how liberals, how Democrats in particular in Washington, around the country respond to Trump. You said that the country would experience a crisis of certainty, and you gave a TED Talk on this in 2023. A comedian's take on how to save democracy. I want to play a clip.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's hard to give any ground when you can't agree that the earth you stand on is either round or flat. But. But perhaps a gesture of understanding, if not towards irrefutable facts, but to your own uncertainty is a step towards progress. I think the phrase I don't know invites a softening, and the ground is too hard to grow much of anything right now. What I think in order for American democracy to survive, we need a culture of vulnerability. Or at least a space in that culture for vulnerability. The good news is being wrong is sexual.

[Kara Swisher]

Again, that was before 2023. That was in 2023, before Trump won reelection. You've said that. The big reason it's so hard to debate or even talk to MAGA people, although you do a lot of that, is that MAGA has become the identity, the certainty. No matter how many facts you put on the table, they believe Trump and his acolytes. So do you think making concessions, showing the vulnerability is the answer, or is it kind of a suicide mission for liberals when you're dealing with people on the other side for whom any concession is non negotial? I'm thinking of my mother this morning, for example, about trans fencers.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh. Which I'm sure that's very important to her and has been for years and years.

[Kara Swisher]

Extremely. She's 92, and it's gonna affect her when she's. Wait just a second. Anyway, go ahead.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, you know what people often ask, like, are you able to change people's minds when you go do daily show pieces? I'm like, that's not the intention of those pieces. And the answer is no, more often than not, because there's a camera there and it invites people to put on a shield and be right and win an argument with their certainty and their identity.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Jordan Klepper]

But the interesting moments to me are the moments off camera where you're actually able to show some of the things you don't know. I did a podcast with Governor John Kasich, and the most interesting moments to me were our phone calls that were not recorded, where we were much more revealing in the things we were unsure about and the political ideas we had that we hadn't fully understood and were open for the ability to change and feel something different about it.

[Kara Swisher]

Who else is doing that? Well, say, in the Democratic Party, because I'm Grandma justifiably has an image of being humorless, Right?

[Jordan Klepper]

Sure.

[Kara Swisher]

In some fashion.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, it's like the. I haven't listened to much of, like, the Gavin Newsom podcast where he's inviting people on. I think what is dangerous about an idea there. There's something I really like about that idea, but I think you speak to something that's like, oh, it's one thing to come to something and say, like, I'm going to show you my vulnerability. And the other person will be like, gotcha, bitch.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, right.

[Jordan Klepper]

That tends to be what happens in these situations where the less the left reveals an opening and the right takes it as opposed to both people meeting.

[Kara Swisher]

And the people he selected, Charlie Kirk, for example, know that they're there for the. For the dunk, not for anything else.

[Jordan Klepper]

I think you have to be careful for politics. I don't have the answer. I don't know how to invite that vulnerability into that culture to allow people to meet on the same page. I don't think it tends to happen in front of cameras or in front of audiences because I think that's too dangerous.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, right. Who do you see as funny, though? Who do you see as someone who's very accessible?

[Jordan Klepper]

Anybody on the left.

[Kara Swisher]

On the left.

[Jordan Klepper]

Who is funny on the left, like in the political sphere. Boy, who is funny? I mean, I will say who's most like. I think AOC and Bernie are compelling in themselves and I like that. I spent some time with Wes Moore, who I thought was really, really impressive and interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

And yes, I just interviewed him.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, I think Wes was great. I'm a sucker for governors on the left. Again, not from the comedy side necessarily, although there's some real Cracker Jacks there. But I think, like, they're people who got shit done in their states and are able to talk in ways that are less like partisan. I feel like when I spend time with like, senators or folks, you see, you see the, the politics, they're good at politics, but governors are like, we gotta get shit done. And that to me is super compelling.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you have a favored governor besides West?

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, as a Michigander, I spent some time with Whitmer and I like Gretchen Whitmer. Gretsch, you like Big Gretsch. And again, and I think, I think Wes Moore was. Was a really impressive, thoughtful person that I like spending a little bit of time with. He also rapped Bring the Pain by Method man with me after a show in Chicago. And so I gotta give respect for anybody with Wu Tang love.

[Kara Swisher]

All right then. All right, before we go, I want to talk about the future of late night. In 2017, you had your own show, the Opposition, in the 11:30pm slot after the Daily show in which you played a right wing pundit character that lasted a year. In 2019, you launched docuseries Clipper, where you toured the country, talk to people in marginalized communities, veterans, undocumented college students, cannabis entrepreneurs, Marsfield, not just Elon. And then you went back to the Daily Show. Talk about, what were you hoping to happen there? And how do you like having all of you versus one to become the one? Like, as you're writing a Highlander, like there can Be only one. It would be really cool if you did a sword fight for it again, Desi. I'm hoping Dessi would win again.

[Jordan Klepper]

God, you had such Desi love on this show.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I'm sorry. She would kick your ass, all of you.

[Jordan Klepper]

She probably would.

[Kara Swisher]

You'd make fun of her height, and then she'd cut you off at your knees. So what do you think about sharing and where late nights. It's been on the climb for years. Many have been downsizing, obviously, due to a shift in streaming and on demand. How do you look at where late night is going to stay relevant to this generation? It's kind of the obvious question.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, I will say, I mean, I love what the Daily Show's doing right now. For me, it's been a blast. We've had so much upheaval and uncertainty in the last few years. Like, we had a pandemic. We had a writer's strike. We had Trevor leave. We had a year of guest hosts coming in and out. And it of kind. Kind of created a resiliency in the show as to, like, things are gonna change. You're gonna think it's one way, and it's gonna have to shift. Suddenly, the show have to do new hosts every single week for a year to figure out what that was. And it landed us in a place that has been really fun. I mean, John hired me, and so when John came in, he was a mentor of mine. And to get a chance to actually work with John, like this week, it's incredible. John hosts on Monday, and I'm here and I talk to John, and. And then I'm watching John. I'm learning from John, and then I'm hosting the rest of the week. The dream job, to sit behind the desk at the Daily show and get to talk about this stuff, it's exhausting. And I get to then stop at the end of the week, and then somebody else gets to come on. Desi gets to come on. Some people like Desi more than other people, and they make that very obvious in interviews that they do, which I understand, and I want to be open to that. So for people who have their favorites, you're going to get your favorite the next week.

[Kara Swisher]

And I think I like all my Daily show children.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is. I respect it. But I think, honestly, what has been fun about it is it has been a humane way to deal with the Trump deluge, in that we all don't go crazy because of it. And I think as an audience, they get the same Daily show voice with different people with their own perspectives that they bring to it. I also love the fact that I get to go out and do short field pieces and I get to do specials. And I sort of think. And you're like, what does Late Night do? Well, the Daily show does something Late Night doesn't get to do, which is like you get a monologue based on what happened that day. You get field pieces where we actually go into the world and talk to people. And those are gonna live as six minute things. You get quick little clips to show the hypocrisy of the world that is there. I get to do deep dive pieces on Hungary. And so you can watch a special on that. It's like you need to approach this as like if you got 15 minutes on what happened today, or you want six minutes about what happened in the middle of Pennsylvania or you wanna watch a big full on special on Hungarian politics. Like the Daily Show's able to engage in that way. So it's been a wild ride for Late Night. We've weathered all of the storms and I think we've stumbled into something that I don't think anybody could have sort of pitched as what we thought the landing point would be, but it's allowed us to be. To be fresh and malleable to the weird times we're in.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. You also can pull it apart, which I think is critical for social media because a lot of your watching is on social media. Correct.

[Jordan Klepper]

I know the Daily show has found a lot of success in that. And when I go on to anybody who's under 30, they're watching one minute clips that I've done from the road. If I'm talking to people over 50, they're watching the full episode. And it's like I'm able to communicate with people in these different ways. So you gotta get savvy at doing that.

[Kara Swisher]

So I have two more questions. If you were the host. Host, the only host, is there something you would do differently?

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, Jesus Christ, the property I would buy upstate would be unreal. I would finally, I'd get up the Hudson Valley. I would get something just outside Hudson. It would be a nice place I wouldn't feel regret about. I'd invest in a liquor company. I mean, I would be. I'd be the person I thought I could be when I moved to New York.

[Kara Swisher]

What liquor? Don't say tequila.

[Jordan Klepper]

What liquor? I mean, it'd be a mezcal company, I think.

[Kara Swisher]

Of course you said tequila, but go ahead.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh, don't even. What would desi do. Would she do something better? A nice cognac that would you like, Kara? You know what? Open your mind, Kara. There's other voices on this show anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

So what would you do? Tell me one thing and then I have one last question.

[Jordan Klepper]

One thing. Well, here's the thing that it's tough to do is to give up going on the road. And so I think that that is what is. Is difficult for me is that like, if I were hosting, I would figure out a way I was trying to do with the opposition to be both hosting during the week, but also to be on the road and talk to people and where they're at. And so I think that that's something I always like bringing back into the Daily Show. And if that was my full time job, I don't know how I would do it, but I have to spend some time on the road as well.

[Kara Swisher]

So, last question then. When you think about this special you just made, tell me the one person that really stuck with you in the special or maybe didn't make it in, who is the one, one moment where you were like, this is really good. This is something I'm. That's substantive that you're bringing to people.

[Jordan Klepper]

That's a great question. We went down to Tampa Bay and I talked to the Young Republicans at Tampa Bay and they had just gone through a little bit of a firestorm because Andrew Tate returned from Romania and Andrew Tate, the alleged sex trafficker, comes back from Romania and the Tampa Bay Young Republicans invite him to him to speak to their group. And there was a bit of an outcry from the left and some people on the right who are like, what are you doing? This guy's a sex trafficker. Alleged. There's terrible videos of him being so misogynist and beating women. This is a toxic person. Why are you inviting this person to talk to your group? And I sat down with them and I had to be fair. It's an awkward interaction on the special because when I talked to these men, their group made a decision for clicks because their group made a decision that lives in the MAGA sphere. The MAGA playbook is do the most outlandish thing to own the libs, no matter the consequence. And they did this thing. And then I reached them a week or so later and they've been blasted by people on the left. And when I talk to them about it, you can hear and see them. There's a morality, there's a core underneath there that's like, you don't want to. You don't want to have Andrew Tate come here. You've talked about your sisters, your mothers, you've talked about women in your lives in a way that what he does is disgusting, and you don't want him anywhere near you. But yet. But yet you are young and part of this Republican Party in a way that you have to play maga. And here are the MAGA rules. Do anything for attention and to own the lips. And you played it, and now you're stuck. And what you don't have. What you don't have is the dead soul or the political savviness to, like, escape this conversation. You're, like, stuck grappling with a morality that is based on, like, love and empathy and a MAGA party that is telling you to burn it all down. And to me, that. That interaction really resonated. Cause I looked at them and I was like, I see it in you. It's this cruelty is not in you, but the game asks for it. And that's what breaks my. My heart.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. They have shame. They're not shameless.

[Jordan Klepper]

I know. And that's perhaps Trump's greatest superpower, is that without shame, he can do, gosh, near anything.

[Kara Swisher]

But everybody else has shame.

[Jordan Klepper]

They do. They seem to.

[Kara Swisher]

A lot of people do. Yeah, a lot of people do. That's my hope. They do have shame.

[Jordan Klepper]

I think they do. I think we built a country based around the idea that most that people do, and therefore, those are the boundaries that we will work within, that Nixon will eventually step down because it's so gosh darn embarrassing. It's like, I don't know if those are the rules. I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, let me tell you, I think this is a very resonant show. I think you're doing a lot more seriousness, but it's very funny at the same time. But I think there's a lot going on here, and it's really important. You're reclaiming America one row at a time.

[Jordan Klepper]

Thank you very much. But round them up.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, thank you, Jordan. On with Kara Swisher is produced by Kristen Castro Wisel, Kateri Yoko, Dave Shaw, Megan Burney, Megan Cunane, and Kaitlyn Lynch. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Special thanks to Anika Robbins and Emil Klein. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you get a house in the Hudson Valley with a view. If not, you're up. Schitt's. Creep with RFK Jr and his grandkids literally go wherever you listen to Podcast Podcast. Search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network and us. We'll be back on Monday with more. Nobody knows your customers better than your team, so give them the power to make standout content with Adobe Express. Brand kits make following design rules a breeze, and Adobe quality templates make it easy to create pro looking flyers, social media posts, presentations and more. You don't have to be a designer to edit campaigns, resize ads and translate content anyone can in a click and collaboration tools put feedback right where you need it. See how you can turn your team into a content machine with Adobe Express, a quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn [e-mail] Express Business.