← On with Kara Swisher
Loading summary
Transcript210 lines
- [00:01]
Josh Johnson
It's on.
- [00:12]
Kara Swisher
Hi, everyone. From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is an extremely funny man and a real joy to be around, comedian Josh Johnson. You might know Josh as one of the regular correspondents on the Daily Show. He's the guy often doing the person on the street interviews about everything from terrorists to Trump to Black History Month. But if you're really smart, you know him from social media, where he's really built up his following and has been blowing up of late. Josh has over a million followers on Instagram, over one and a half million subscribers on YouTube, and 2 million followers on TikTok. And he's incredibly prolific. He's built a following by regularly posting bits of his standup routines, which are long philosophical journeys where he connects news, politics, and pop culture to everyday struggles. I think he's just a real treasure and someone who is incredibly thoughtful. And one of the best parts of it is I was introduced to him by my son Louis, who's 20 years old, who's been listening to him for a long time and really enjoys his really thoughtful takes on lots of things, and I think that's a good sign for our youth. Josh is currently on tour around the country, the Flowers Tour. I spoke to him on Monday in between gigs at a live event at the Great hall of the Cooper Union for the Advancement of Science and Art. Cooper is a private college in New York City offering degrees in architecture, art and engineering. And the Great hall has been the site of civic discourse and free public programming since 1859. Frederick Douglass, Abraham Lincoln, and Barack Obama have spoken here. And now me and Josh Johnson. I also gave a commencement address for Cooper Union a couple of years ago, and it was fantastic. And in this one, it was equally so. We had a packed house at a really wonderful venue, so that's pretty cool. Our question this week comes from fellow comedian Mike Birbiglia, who's an overachiever and did several questions for us and we used two of them here. He's become a friend of mine, but more importantly has an astonishing special coming out on Netflix in May called the Good Life, which he's been working on. He's also interviewed Josh. I think you'll really like this interview. It is fun and it is also surprisingly poignant. So get ready to listen. Support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E Trade, you can dive into the market with easy to use tools, zero dollar commissions and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. You can get access to industry leading research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to a thousand dollars or more with a qualifying deposit. Get started today@etrade.com terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley. Support for on with Keraswisher comes from Sophos. Cybersecurity doesn't have to come with sacrifices or trade offs with Sophos. No matter your business's size. You get enterprise grade technology and real world experience always in sync, always in your corner. Sophos native AI technologies evolve with every threat and their experts are ready 24 7, 365 with their managed detection and response response services to stop threats before they strike. And you can manage all of your security alerts, configurations and other security projects through the Sophos central platform. So don't sacrifice your peace of mind to grow your business. Learn more@sophos.com.
- [03:52]
Josh Johnson
Season 1 of Andor had critics calling it the best Star wars series yet. Now season two of the Emmy nominated series returns April 22nd. Follow Cassian Andor as he embarks on a path from a rebel to a hero, starring Diego Luna and from creator Tony Gilroy, writer of Michael Clayton and the bourne identity. Season two of Andor is streaming April 22nd only on Disney. It is over.
- [04:23]
Kara Swisher
Josh Johnson, thanks for joining us for a live recording of on with Kara Swisher here at the Cooper Union in New York. So I have a really busy schedule, but you have an insane schedule. You just came here tonight from the Daily show where you've been a correspondent for about a year and you were also on tour. You've been touring around the country this Friday and Saturday you perform in Oklahoma. Last night you were in Dallas next week and you're back in Texas. This has been going on for a while. Talk a little bit about how you're conducting your life right now as a comic. What is it like to be a comic at this moment?
- [05:05]
Josh Johnson
Okay. I mean, I don't really. I guess I don't sleep that much.
- [05:10]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [05:11]
Josh Johnson
But also there was so long where I would go places and nobody cared. And so it's nice to now have people want me to go wherever I'm going.
- [05:21]
Kara Swisher
So where was the worst place where nobody cared? I had a book event where two people showed up so I took them out to dinner. But go ahead.
- [05:27]
Josh Johnson
Oh okay, yeah. So you're saying the worst place where nobody cared.
- [05:32]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:33]
Josh Johnson
I did do a show in Mobile, Alabama, that if they, if they cared, they would have come. And it was raining when I got there and one of the, one of the producers was like, I think we're gonna get some more people coming in. I was like, I don't think we will. I think that the rain doesn't necessarily bring the people out. I think whoever is in here now is who we have.
- [06:05]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [06:05]
Josh Johnson
And there was one person that wandered in and was very confused why I was talking, was like, clearly just came in for a drink and was like, oh, no.
- [06:17]
Kara Swisher
So you're doing a lot of. I want you to sort of differentiate between online and, I guess, offline or real life. Because you're one of the most prolific comics on social media at the moment. You released 60 YouTube videos last year. You post nearly hour long sets on YouTube weekly, which you're doing. You're getting millions of views. They're all very different. A lot of current news and pop culture moments. Talk a little bit about that and how you think about the differentiation between, say, being in Texas and here or somewhere else.
- [06:49]
Josh Johnson
Well, first of all, I do talk a lot. So that's how we got the numbers. That's how we got to the 60 videos. Is that I could go on forever. If y'all feel like living here, we can. But I think that every place that you go to, you know, whether you're in like Austin, Texas or Oklahoma City or something, are gonna have their general breakdowns of demographics and all the things that we use to look at a place and try to decide what it is, try to put people and a place in a specific box. Is it red? Is it blue? Purple? Is it mostly black, White? Does it have a hood? Is it the boonies? All that stuff. But I think that for the most part, if you can accept that those demographics are there, but still sort of approach it with the hope of being universal, I think you can get to some really interesting work. I think that it is possible to create a through line that people who have very different experiences that will not converge can still understand the thing that you're talking about. And so that's my goal whenever I go to a place, is to not necessarily switch up everything that I'm doing because of where I am, but sometimes where I am. Aids. My. The thing that I'm trying to speak to.
- [08:14]
Kara Swisher
How do you pick things? Because you do different things. I was looking at. You do these longer ones that shift between A number of things. You were talking about a fight, and then you were talking about Elon Musk, and then you were talking about AI. We'll get to Elon in a second because he's super funny, as everybody knows. But. And then you did this very. You do a lot of short ones, which I like a lot where, you know, you did one on Mark Zuckerberg's outfit, which I loved. Thank you for doing that. As much as I enjoy Jimmy Kimmel calling him looking like a Molly dealer from Chechnya, I love the idea that he's in the middle of the first cross racial midlife crisis, which I thought was beautiful, was sort of a beautiful thing. How do you pick it up and decide what to do now? Was there a news story, for example, that popped up today that you might integrate into your CN up? I was just thinking. I was just on the way here. I was on a train here from D.C. and one of the things that I thought interesting was this idea that the tariffs are manly. That they're manly tariffs. And it's on. I know it's gonna surprise you, but it's on Fox News right now. Trump tariffs will make you a man. That's Jesse Waters. Trump's manly tariffs pundit believes it could reverse the crisis in masculinity. For example.
- [09:32]
Josh Johnson
Sure, sure. So.
- [09:36]
Kara Swisher
It'S a penis.
- [09:38]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, yeah. The way that I look at it, I suppose if I was gonna add it to the set, right. That like, they're saying that this is manly. I do think that it is manly in the way that like, my dad would try to fix the sink and he's not a plumber.
- [09:59]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [10:00]
Josh Johnson
Do you know what I mean?
- [10:01]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [10:03]
Josh Johnson
So like, we own the tools. Cause you can buy tools. Don't just let anybody have the tools. They don't ask you if you're gonna tear up your house at all. They'll let you buy the hammer, the screwdriver. They'll let you buy like the hatchet. It might as well be an automatic weapon if you don't know what you're doing with an electric screw. And so then you bring it home and in your head as a man, you're like, I have the tools. Like, I do have them. So if anything happens, I'm at least halfway there. Nevermind. The other half is like knowledge. And so then, so then there's like a leaky faucet. And so you're like, okay, go time. This is what we bought all the stuff at the hardware store for. And so you get under the sink you move all the Lysol, all the stuff out of the way, and then you're under there, and it's very uncomfortable. You're like, wow, I can't believe that there are people that do this without complaining. And then you're trying to figure out, you know, you've got your light, because you don't have a light like you should, because you're not an actual plumber. So you've got your cell phone light up, pointed at the faucet with your legs hanging out of the cabinet, and you're looking up, and you're letting the water hit you on the forehead because you're like, I just want to make sure the leak is real. Right. And so it's hitting you on the forehead, and then you're like, all right, time for tools. And so you take your screwdriver, and you're like, I don't know where this one. I don't know if this one worked.
- [11:27]
Kara Swisher
Well, you're not actually supposed to use a screwdriver there. But, yeah, as a lesbian, I know exactly what to do. But go ahead.
- [11:33]
Josh Johnson
Yeah. And so then the way that that thought process goes of like, I'm a man. A man is supposed to fix these things. I have the tools. The tools are right here. You know, a tariff is a tool. It's not as if. If tariffs were invented this past week or anything.
- [11:54]
Kara Swisher
No.
- [11:55]
Josh Johnson
And obviously, you know, when Trump was running, he was running on strength. You saw dudes that were voting for Trump talk about how we need strength right now and everything. He's a man. He has a tool. Let's just fix the thing. And the only thing he's missing is knowledge on how the thing works.
- [12:15]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [12:16]
Josh Johnson
And that. And that does mean that the House we're in is gonna leak very badly for a long time.
- [12:27]
Kara Swisher
Do you. There you go. Right? Exactly. So making jokes about this craziness now, you do man in the street bits. As a correspondent on the Daily show, which are fantastic, have you noticed any change in reactions over the last few months? Have you been out lately since the stock market took a massive dive?
- [12:48]
Josh Johnson
No, I've only talked to people that I know since the stock market. I don't even know what you would call it besides a crash.
- [13:00]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, crash is what I was looking for.
- [13:01]
Josh Johnson
I was trying to find a different word, like a synonym. And then crash is just the most appropriate. But basically, ever since it really kicked off, so, like, that first day with the Dow with like the 1200 points and everything, you know, everyone that. That I know was Concerned in the way that you. They were concerned in the way that you get concerned when you're, like, in an Uber and you see that the light has turned, but they're still looking at the directions. And so you're like, all right, are we about to crash? Yeah, you know what I mean? All the time. And then the more I talk to people, the more that they were like, no, I think we've actually already been in the car accident, and we're doing that thing where you blink a lot because you can't hear anything. Cause you're like, do. And so I think that I have not had the. I've not had the chance yet to do, like a man on the street since it happened. But every person that I've talked to has had. And across the aisle as well. It's like, I still have friends from back home in Louisiana that vote Republican every time and everything that have very similar concerns to the people that I know here. And I think that sometimes these connections get made where people who are maybe diametrically opposed isn't the right way of phrasing it, but people who are so at opposite ends of the spectrum have one sticking point of common ground for even a moment. And then speaking to that is what I would try to do, whether it's a man on the street or just stand up.
- [14:48]
Kara Swisher
So what would be right now? Are people in places like Oklahoma getting wary of Elon or what Trump is doing or the cuts in government?
- [14:57]
Josh Johnson
Well, I think that there is a hesitance that I'm seeing in real people that doesn't seem to exist online as much. The thing about being online is that it doesn't tell you how everyone is feeling, and neither can being in person. But it does tell you the most extreme version of what a person thinks. If you don't have to be in person saying the thing, you'll say whatever. Right? Like, I'm pretty tough behind a keyboard.
- [15:28]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, how dare you?
- [15:31]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, how dare you. But you do see people online saying things that are like, well, this is good. This is the manly thing. This is, like, gonna make men men again. Cause we're gonna have to work so hard to eat nothing that we will be like men again. Remember, like, our grandparents who were men back when men were men? You know, the men that died young? Those men. We should be more like those men who got things like, I don't know, like, tetanus from not having the shot or having the shot and not wanting to take it. Yeah. Yeah. So we're really. I don't know. I used to truly believe, and I'm not trying to not answer the question, you just reminded me of something I truly used to believe. That with enough opportunity, education, and resources, we would all be like that meme. You know that meme that people make where they're like, oh, if this thing never happened and it's like a futuristic utopia and there's like flying cars and stuff like that. I used to believe that, like, with enough of everything, we would get there. And now I'm not totally sure that's the case because we do have stuff and we're like, nah, I'd rather it be, like, the 1800s. Yes, that looked dope. So I'd rather that as I sit on my iPhone, I'd rather that back when men were men and those men wrote about how bad life was.
- [16:59]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. So, like, measles, let's do it again.
- [17:02]
Josh Johnson
Yeah.
- [17:03]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [17:04]
Josh Johnson
And so I think, though, that a lot of different connection points are getting made in how people are reacting to things. And I think it. Obviously, it's very difficult. It's really hard. If you spent a year and a half sort of sounding the alarm that things like this would happen, and then no one cared, or people laughed in your face, and then they do start happening, and then all of a sudden people care or they stop laughing or they still try laughing your face while they're actively hurting. And I think that, like, they're. I don't ask anyone to, like, live life as I see fit, but I do think that for some people, there's a point where their empathy sort of ends and they get on this sort of, like, nihilistic doom roller coaster where they're like, well, good, let's go ahead. Let's burn it all down just so you can suffer, just so you can learn your lesson.
- [18:04]
Kara Swisher
The leopards eat your face.
- [18:05]
Josh Johnson
The leopards eat your face. And it's like, this is the thing about that. I totally understand where that logic comes from. I also very much understand, like, that feeling. Like that That's a very human thing. We all have it for each other sometimes. And it could be politics. It could be you telling someone not to date someone. You know, I mean, like, it could be. It could be anything. But the problem with, like, the leopards eating face party is that the satisfaction you get from watching the person that voted for the leopards to eat faces.
- [18:34]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [18:34]
Josh Johnson
Eat their face.
- [18:35]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [18:35]
Josh Johnson
Is negating the fact that your face is also being eaten, like. Like at the same time. That's the whole reason you didn't want the leopard face party because you were like, I like my face.
- [18:44]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [18:45]
Josh Johnson
And so, yeah, I think I had.
- [18:47]
Kara Swisher
That feeling when Bill Ackman, who's been on the. The DEA Brigade. Cause he's a world's expert on that. You know, I was thinking he does like 96 page tweets about DEI.
- [18:59]
Josh Johnson
I did read one of them and it was long.
- [19:01]
Kara Swisher
It was long.
- [19:02]
Josh Johnson
Yeah.
- [19:02]
Kara Swisher
And I'm like, this is not the purpose of Twitter, but fine, let's have the. So I was gonna do a 96 part series on hedge fund investing, about which I know nothing, so that I could compete with him. But he's very upset about the tariffs.
- [19:15]
Josh Johnson
Oh, no, he's very upset. And he also.
- [19:17]
Kara Swisher
Now he's upset.
- [19:18]
Josh Johnson
Now he's upset. And he also does not have an editor. I've never seen a tweet. I didn't know you were allowed to do it that long.
- [19:28]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:29]
Josh Johnson
That's crazy.
- [19:29]
Kara Swisher
It's free.
- [19:30]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:31]
Kara Swisher
They don't make any money.
- [19:31]
Josh Johnson
He's working on a book.
- [19:33]
Kara Swisher
Yes, he is. I want to talk a little bit how you got here, because you're originally, as you noted, from Louisiana, you studied lighting. Theater. Lighting.
- [19:40]
Josh Johnson
I did, yeah.
- [19:42]
Kara Swisher
Why?
- [19:45]
Josh Johnson
Well, I was looking for something. I've always loved theater, and I wasn't a performer in that way. Like, I wasn't an actor or anything, but I was really engaged with everything that the theater department was doing. And so I decided I started off as this communications major because I thought that I was gonna write films. And I thought that communications was the best way, like the best route to. When I'm not writing films, I could be working on something else. And I can just learn that general world of media. And then I just found myself so passionate about theater and the productions that the department was doing that I thought lighting design and the way that it's like subtle but incredibly necessary was something really interesting. And so I graduated with a degree with that as my main focus.
- [20:43]
Kara Swisher
But did you want to get on the stage and then just said, oh, I'll do lighting design? Because I'm. You know, it's almost like one of those movies where the lighting designer turns out to be the beautiful girl, you.
- [20:52]
Josh Johnson
Know, in a sense. But basically, after I graduated, I just. I did it for maybe three, four months after I graduated locally with a lot of productions and stuff. And then I knew I was going to move to Chicago. And when I moved to Chicago, I had also started doing a couple open mic nights and stuff like that. I've always Had a real passion for comedy, even more so than design, even more so than theater.
- [21:19]
Kara Swisher
But you hadn't done it before, correct?
- [21:20]
Josh Johnson
I hadn't really done it. I had done my college's.
- [21:23]
Kara Swisher
What prompted you to get on the stage to do that?
- [21:27]
Josh Johnson
You know, I talk a lot and I was like, this is at least a forum where I'm supposed to, you know. And so I couldn't tell you honestly from that very first time what made me. But I know. When I moved to Chicago.
- [21:41]
Kara Swisher
What was your first joke?
- [21:42]
Josh Johnson
Oh, geez. I don't know what it was, but I know it was bad. I don't remember it well.
- [21:47]
Kara Swisher
Do you know what it was about?
- [21:51]
Josh Johnson
There's a piece of the set that I remember. Cause I did a few jokes, so I don't remember what the first one was, but I had this one joke about how my family got a new alarm system. And I like said the neighborhood that we lived in and everything. And then that someone tried to break in and we found the alarm system works perfectly because the cops showed up two days later. That's a good joke. And that was in there.
- [22:23]
Kara Swisher
Slow burn here.
- [22:24]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, I think I remember that one. Cause people actually reacted to that one. I feel like the other ones were duds.
- [22:30]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, you had a good joke about being in a fight neighborhood. You live in a fight when you had your fight. I've only lived in fight neighborhoods.
- [22:37]
Josh Johnson
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I feel like I also sometimes will categorize jokes by like a different thing than what is the memorable part of the joke and so.
- [22:49]
Kara Swisher
The joke itself, you mean?
- [22:51]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, exactly.
- [22:52]
Kara Swisher
Right. It's getting there. No, your discursiveness is really interesting. Cause you wander all over the place.
- [22:57]
Josh Johnson
I do. Which is.
- [22:58]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I like it.
- [22:59]
Josh Johnson
It's part of talking a lot.
- [23:01]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah. It reminds me of you. You must study a lot. That's what I was noticing on a lot of your tech. You went out and learned it like you.
- [23:08]
Josh Johnson
As best I could. I mean, if anything, that's what gives me, like, if I decide to do a set about something or someone. And then in trying to find background on it, I'm realizing how little I understand about the subject. That's what gives me at least more respect in how I talk about it. Just because I know, even if the audience doesn't know, I know that I didn't. When I read it, I didn't understand it.
- [23:33]
Kara Swisher
Right. You were talking about tariffs backstage, about the formula.
- [23:36]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, I was talking about the tariffs. And I was like, I'm reading things that I'm just trying to make sure all of it is true, because so far, it's been very dumb.
- [23:46]
Kara Swisher
Mm.
- [23:47]
Josh Johnson
And I just want to make sure it's as dumb as I think it is right before I talk about how dumb it is. Because in case I'm wrong, I'm, like, not helping. I'm just making it seem it's dumb. Yeah. Okay. Cool, cool, cool.
- [24:01]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah. You were asking. He was asking if ChatGPT gave Trump the formula.
- [24:05]
Josh Johnson
Yeah. And I heard that. And I was like, no, lie. I don't like Trump at all. But I need that one to not be true. Let me go ahead and look up, like, 14 sources to make sure that that's what happened, because I know that they got their own formula wrong.
- [24:21]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [24:22]
Josh Johnson
And that was also, like, as someone who's never been great at math in class, I understand exactly where they were coming from, messing up their own formula. But no one's ever depended on me.
- [24:35]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [24:37]
Josh Johnson
Do you know what I mean? Like, I never came home with a C in math, and my mom was like, that's it. We selling everything. This is. We were looking to you and you botched it.
- [24:52]
Kara Swisher
We'll be back in a minute. Foreign support for on with Keraswisher comes from Indeed. The problem with a lot of job sites is that it's difficult to make your postings stand out. Well, with Indeed, you don't need to struggle to get your job post seen. With sponsor jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for relevant candidates so you can connect with the right person for your job fast. And when you look at the numbers, they say it makes a big difference. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed have gotten 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Their data also says that in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. You can speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Listeners of on with Keroswisher will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com on just go to Indeed.com on right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on podcast. Indeed.com on terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need support for on with Kara swisher comes from NerdWallet. Folks, if you're anything like me, your day is a non stop balancing act. You got things to do, places to be. And honestly, hunting for the best auto insurance deal is not exactly the top of the list. That's where the nerds at NerdWallet come in. They've already crunched the numbers so you don't have to. You want a lower auto insurance rate, right? But you've also got your life. You've got to write that speech for your friend's wedding, your new business to grow. And in between all of this, you've got to figure out when you're taking your dog to the vet. NerdWallet makes it easy. Answer a few quick questions and boom. Your best insurance match right then and there. Looks like you have the time to hit up the vet and grab a nice leisurely cup of coffee while you're out. Using your brainpower on what actually smart Letting the nerds use their brainpower on helping you find the right financial product products Genius get matched with lower auto insurance rates today@nerdwallet.com not all applicants will qualify for the lowest monthly payments. NerdWallet Insurance Services California resident license number OK 92033 Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet. Whether it's a quick jaunt or a long journey, no matter where you're going, the all electric Equinox EV allows you to travel with confidence, comfort and connectivity. Equinox EV comes equipped with a standard 17.7 inch diagonal color display touchscreen, making it the largest center screen among EVs in its class. Its sleek lines and a commanding stance define the exterior of Equinox ev, while the no Compromises interior has a cargo room and storage that let you do you at a starting price of around $34,995. Equinox EV a vehicle you know, valued you'd expect and a dealer right down the street, you can go EV without changing a thing. Learn more@chevy.com Equinox EV based on latest competitive data, the manufacturer's suggested retail price excludes tax, title, license, dealer fees and optional equipment. Dealer sets Final price When you were getting when you were sort of preparing and going on stage from being doing lighting, you jumped on stage and took the mic. Did you have people you looked up to that influenced your comedy? I mean, everyone sort of asked that question, was it Jimmy Fallon, Trevor Noah, Jon Stewart? Was there anybody you were copying?
- [28:34]
Josh Johnson
I don't think so because I feel like what I was doing, I definitely had heroes especially. But I think that one of the reasons it was what felt like difficult for me to find my footing in stand up for a little while was that the way that I wanted to do it was not something that I really saw A lot of. I saw pieces of it in other people, I suppose. I really appreciate the way that this may not even make sense, so feel free to stop.
- [29:10]
Kara Swisher
I sure.
- [29:10]
Josh Johnson
Okay. But I appreciate the way that Carlin had almost like a timeless tense to him, because he could have, yeah, George Carney, he could have talked about one specific politician, one specific moment in time, one specific story. But the takeaway, even when he did do those things, was that this thing is applicable for the rest of time as long as this injustice holds true.
- [29:33]
Kara Swisher
He holds up.
- [29:34]
Josh Johnson
Yeah. I feel like even though I talk about things topically, I think that if you let all that stuff sort of pass away or you edit it out of the set, there is an attempt I'm making to talk about a larger thing that, who knows? I don't get to decide and I won't be around for if it holds.
- [29:55]
Kara Swisher
Comedy, I would say, is philosophical. Let me give you an example from a set you posted. It's funny, but it's also very poignant. I'm going to read some of the lines you sprinkle through this 42 minutes, and I don't think I'm very good at this, so I'm just going to do it. The only way forward is with other people. Your future is your neighbor. Lay down trust at the feet of people you don't know. If there's a community you want around you, all you have to do is be its founder. It's so much more likely you're gonna build a community than you're going to become a billionaire. There's a lot going on there that is this eternal thing that you're talking about, these bigger ideas.
- [30:31]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, yeah. I mean, oof. Oof. I definitely didn't have any jokes in that honestly thing, so I was like.
- [30:39]
Kara Swisher
No, I pulled them out just to be free.
- [30:40]
Josh Johnson
I hope the actual set made people laugh.
- [30:42]
Kara Swisher
I made them unfunny. Unfunn. Purpose.
- [30:44]
Josh Johnson
The stuff from before. Ooh. Okay. Gotta work on some tags. But yeah, no, I, I, I think that those are my, my attempts to take it away from just one specific thing. I understand that it is incredibly scary and disheartening to see this sort of like, whatever you want to call it, Trump America or anything, but, but, but Trump is a symptom of a larger issue. And those issues will exist long after he's gone, long after I'm gone, because they're the issues that people make. And I think that there are attitudes that get us back to places that we've been before where it already didn't work out for us. We've seen. It's like some of the worst parts of history seem like they're gonna repeat, but we already know we've already sort of learned the lesson. And so that's actually what makes things timeless. Sadly, isn't even someone being extra poignant or like having words strung together in a sentence that have never been done before is the fact that we keep making the same mistakes. So if you can speak to a specific mistake and you can hopefully find something to offer up besides just this is a mistake, boo on you then I think that you do have a catalog that you can look back on with a lot of things that. That hold up that people can enjoy or take something away from for as.
- [32:11]
Kara Swisher
Long as for a long time. You're right. Carlin really does hold up. Even today he's completely relevant the stuff he says. That said, you do a lot of stuff of pop culture as it's happening now. Your most popular YouTube video at the moment is Drake vs. Kendrick explained to white people, which is brilliant, which someday people won't understand, but still is fantastic. 7.8 million views in 10 months. There's also Diddy's collapse untouchable to indicted, 6.5 million views. And of course, let's not forget why they're turning on Elon, one of my personal favorites with 4.5 million views. These are 40 minute plus conversational explainers with lots of detours, which is, I think, your signature style. Although you do do the shorter TikTok ones. Why do you think long form is doing so well for you? Because people want more explanation, maybe.
- [33:02]
Josh Johnson
I don't know. I didn't necessarily engage with it that way because I figured something out. I just was doing my set and then I put it out and people found it and liked it. And that's a real blessing. I don't really know if that will even be the case for long. I just know that this is the way that I approach comedy. This is the way that I find it, like fun and fulfilling. I'm happy that people enjoy it. It's not gonna be everybody's cup of tea. So I understand that as well. But to me, I think that in a world that's like bombarding you consistently all the time with like a message as quick as possible, convince you of something and convince you of something. That's a belief that they would like for you to hold for the end of time.
- [33:52]
Kara Swisher
Because whether it's reductive too.
- [33:54]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, I think that at a certain point, if you really Take your time and think out an entire idea that there are gonna be people who appreciate that and appreciate the through line that you create, the line of logic. So at least they understand your worldview and the worldview of people that believe what you believe a little bit better. And I think that maybe that's what's resonating with people right now, because I'm especially not really trying to convince anybody of anything. These are the things that I believe, these are the things that I think are funny. And the great thing about the Internet is that there is some passivity there. It's like, if you really think that I suck, you don't have to engage with me at all. If you're like, this isn't what comedy should be, or if it's for you, and you're like, oh, I really wanted something that. Whether it's breaking down a thing or joking about a thing that is obscure, then you can find it and you can and have fun with it. But I don't know. Cause I also don't know if I'll always do it this way. I think the whole thing, any creator is supposed to evolve in some form. And so this is what I'm doing for now. Maybe I'll do something different a few years from now.
- [35:07]
Kara Swisher
But you know what? I'm very attracted to one of the things, something I know about your Elon Takedowns are brilliant. Actually. I have spent 30 years with that fucker and. And you seem to get it pretty quick. He was okay for many of those years and has sort of lost his ever loving mind at this point. But you have real insight into these tech billionaires. They're giving you a lot of material, which is.
- [35:32]
Josh Johnson
Sure. But I also think it's just like to me, no matter what, you're sort of like studying to find background on, to speak about as, as earnestly and intelligently as possible. I think if you have an understanding of people, you'll understand a situation. And I've met people like Elon, and I've met people like Trump, and I've met people like Chuck Schumer and I've met people that remind me of other people. Not saying that those people are the same as the people that I'm mentioning, but I kind of try to put a lot of the things that I make through, through the sort of lens of like, we are all basically the same. And what I mean by that is that like, I try not to pass judgments that hold forever because I truly believe it's just my thing. I'm not asking anybody else to believe it, but I think that if I had been born at a different time, as a different person, I would be them. I think if I had, you know, the chemical makeup in the brain, born in the time, had the parents of the nurturing of a different person, I'd probably be just like them. I don't necessarily. I hold my beliefs very strongly, but I don't hold them so strongly that I'm like, no. Even if I had been born 20 years ago, I think exactly what I think right now. It's like, no. I had to be introduced to ideas. I had to be brought along. I had to learn. I had to make lots of mistakes and logic and then be educated about them. And that's just to get me where I am now.
- [37:06]
Kara Swisher
In a lot of ways, these people are regressing, you know, back from something else with the aid of certain pharmaceuticals. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- [37:16]
Josh Johnson
But I do think that some of that regression in a lot of its forms, no matter how it happens, is like pain. And I think that there are some people that, no matter how much money they have or clout, no matter how they look to us on the. On the outside, are deeply fearful of even the person. Of discovering the person that they are. Because I think you have to face a lot to do that. And so rather than open themselves up to what would potentially make them a better person. Or at least give them a deeper understanding of other people, even if they don't change their mind about anything, they sort of regress. Because that is the. I don't know, a part of me. Sometimes it's not an indictment on all of us, but sometimes it just feels like the manly thing to do.
- [38:01]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. That is.
- [38:03]
Josh Johnson
No, I'm not wrong. If I just get louder, I won't be wrong. Cause I won't hear anybody else talking.
- [38:08]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. At the same time, they might just be assholes.
- [38:11]
Josh Johnson
Yeah. No, that's fair.
- [38:14]
Kara Swisher
You know, I'm always struck by how unhappy a lot of the richest people in the world are. It's really quite something to see, like the unhappiness and the grievance and the victimization that's really been. So that's really what my book was about, was their grievance, their constant and exhausting victimization of themselves, which is tiresome and no reflection whatsoever. I mean, it's a miracle they can see themselves in the mirror at this point.
- [38:39]
Josh Johnson
Yeah. I mean, when you don't have an odyssey, then you have to create one. And you only create one, like one of two Ways there could be an actual problem in the world. Like. Like, you know, I'm not gonna tell anybody how to spend their money, but Elon could easily be like, you know, what seems unconquerable? Hunger. So I'm gonna attack hunger for the rest of my life. I'm gonna go at war with hunger. What are the best ways that we can attack hunger and stop hunger? Right.
- [39:05]
Kara Swisher
Do you know what his solution might be?
- [39:08]
Josh Johnson
I mean, it.
- [39:09]
Kara Swisher
Kill half the people. I wouldn't want him to tackle hunger. I feel like my robots could kill half the people and then everyone.
- [39:19]
Josh Johnson
Plenty of.
- [39:20]
Kara Swisher
He's like, Thanos. He's literally Thanos.
- [39:23]
Josh Johnson
I'm not saying he'd be good at it. I'm just saying the thing that he chose was like, I'm gonna go after, like, the idea that people have ideas that I don't like. I'm gonna try to completely shift culture and thinking in a way that is like, so animal farm, so 1984. And it's like, you could. He's kind of out of problems, so he has to make some.
- [39:46]
Kara Swisher
Yeah.
- [39:46]
Josh Johnson
And he's only out of problems because the real problems the world is facing are not things that he's interested in.
- [39:52]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. If only he had hugged more as a child. So one of the things in your 2023 special, you imply comedy's been a form of therapy for you. I mean, a lot of these people could use just even the smallest amount of therapy. Sure. And you even thank the audience, your therapist, for keeping you alive. Do you talk a little bit about that? Do you see yourself as a founder of a community who want to be around you? Do you follow your own advice on your Flowers tour?
- [40:16]
Josh Johnson
Yeah. I mean, the purpose of the tour, the idea is to. For myself especially, to sort of learn how to like, plant these sort of seeds of mutual aid and things that we can sustain, like, long after the tour is over and long after I'm gone and everything. Because I think that if you can set something up like that, like, we don't really think about the people who are the reason that we have, like a 40 hour work week. But there were people that, like, protested, died. There were people who put themselves on the line. And so even though they're gone and we don't really know their names, we get that benefit. And so it kind of felt like, you know, to answer your question, hopefully as succinctly as possible, because I do talk a lot is. Is the same way that when I moved Chicago and I was like, okay, I can either do Lighting or I can do comedy. One gives me a lot of joy, one I think I'm pretty good at, but both I'm probably gonna be poor. And so I just picked the thing that gave me, like, more joy. And I think that if I'm not gonna be here forever anyway, then it's more so what you sort of leave behind. And so on Flowers Tour, we're doing our best to get better and better in every city at community outreach. And some of that community outreach is just letting the people know who come to the show what's already happening in their community. Like, all the good work that's already being done. So even if we don't start something new, we let the people know that, like, oh, there's this animal shelter here that is just not even six blocks away from the theater, and they're taking volunteers and you can sign up or you can donate or whatever. The thing is, because I think that. That one of the reasons people feel so beat down all the time is that they are unaware in all the noise of the Internet, of all the good work that is happening around them. Yeah. And the solutions. And so that is like, what I'm attempting to do with the tour and each tour for the rest of the time that I'm doing comedy is that I think that if you can go somewhere, I mean, like, flowers is a little on the nose, but every. Every state has a flower. Cities have particular flowers that grow there in a way that they don't grow anywhere else. And so if you can visit and sort of plant these seeds and you can nurture them, leave them with the people that came to the show and sort of leave that general message there that when you come back to sort of water that idea that there might be something that's grown in the meantime.
- [42:47]
Kara Swisher
It's interesting because Lincoln, that was a famous quote. I think if I was remembered for anything, it's where I found a thistle. I planted a flower. I mean, it was. One of his famous quotes, is that he did that wherever he found that he planted a flower, which is interesting. I want to talk about that idea because I'm going to shift gears a little bit and talk about how it's a business, too. You just mentioned something you really like doing, or you're going to be poor either way. But you're not. You're very entrepreneurial. You have two specials. One was self financed and produced. Talk a little bit about that. Because one of the things you're doing is sort of trying to change a lot of comics not Just you are doing this. There's a lot of calculation now happening with comics about how to be entrepreneurial, and I think they really are in a lot of ways. So talk about how that is. And lots of different comics have tried doing different things and owning their comedy. And it used to be you went on standup, then you got on, like, the Tonight show, and then you got a series, and that's how it went. That's not how it is anymore, especially young comics. Can you talk a little bit about this?
- [43:51]
Josh Johnson
Yeah. I think that there are ways in which the economy is changing, that if you don't think very deeply about what it is that you want to do and how you want to distribute it, you will be not left behind in the way of, like, get in now or it's over. I mean, like, you will be sort of like, like, following the lead of a corporation who went ahead and figured out how to get around the idea that you could be independent. So, for instance, like, while we sat here when, like, vaping was getting big, right, and there was all these things going on about how, like, big tobacco was scared of vaping, and they were actually lobbying to try to get all of these, like, municipal laws passed. And while some of that was happening, they were also quietly investing in vaping and then buying vape companies because they knew that the tide was turning, everything was shifting, and they weren't going to be able to fight it forever. And so I think that when it comes to distribution, I think when it comes to ownership and when it comes to you creating the things that you want to make and having some say in how they get created, that having. Having that ownership, even if it doesn't look like much initially, is gonna pay off dividends in the future, because you can choose your collaborators. Like, I've done my best to surround people, surround myself with people that I trust with the things that I'm making. And I want to make sure everybody feels content with what we're creating together. You know, that's yours. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, even if the actual creation of the thing is mine, if you are on the tour with me, I want you to feel like a part of the tour is yours, and you can use the skills that you. You learn on the tour to go off and make your own thing in a way where I just feel like corporations are very good at, like, trying to make you feel that way while also trying to keep you the entire time. And I think that the next wave of comedians that make money, whether it's Online or like touring or anything like that are going to be finding more independent ways to produce their stuff. And the thing that big corporations have over being independent or working on something that's new in a way where you don't know if it'll work out is that they have the structure in place. And so when you see something with that big of a structure, it can catapult someone. If a company comes to you and they're like, oh, we want to be your sponsor and we're going to. We're gonna fund your next three projects and everything, that. That's very enticing. But they own that. But it's all of your work, you know, And I'm not, I'm not saying that you never engage with a corporation at all. I'm not saying that you never.
- [46:44]
Kara Swisher
Because you do that on the Daily Show. That's.
- [46:46]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, yeah. It's like you, you, you. You use the leverage you have when you have it, and you build relationships that are just advantageous to you as well. I think that, that there's sometimes a level of trust in systems that we found to not be trustworthy for a long time.
- [47:02]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I own everything now. After I just got so sick of someone like Rupert Murdoch owning everything I did. And I was like, you're an asshole. And I would like to just own it even if I don't make money from it, which I do. We'll be back in a minute.
- [47:30]
Josh Johnson
It's spring Black Friday at the Home Depot. So what are you working on? If you're sprucing up your lawn, you know there's no such thing as too much mulch, so don't miss this special. Buy five bags of Scott's EarthGrow mulch for only $10 at the home Depot. Promote healthier soil, prevent weeds, and beautify your yard with mulch that maintains its color for up to 12 months. Shop 14 days of deals during spring Black Friday now through April 16th at the home Depot.
- [48:00]
Kara Swisher
We're shipping Easter gifts with a rapid fire round of questions. Ready?
- [48:03]
Josh Johnson
Yes.
- [48:04]
Kara Swisher
My gift. Can you pack it?
- [48:05]
Josh Johnson
Yep.
- [48:06]
Kara Swisher
Ship it? Yes. Guarantee it?
- [48:08]
Josh Johnson
Of course.
- [48:08]
Kara Swisher
Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics. Dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.
- [48:14]
Josh Johnson
Yes, no, and yeah.
- [48:16]
Kara Swisher
Are you the UPS store?
- [48:18]
Josh Johnson
Hey, we have a winner.
- [48:20]
Kara Swisher
Visit theupsstore.com guaranty for full details. Most locations are independently owned.
- [48:24]
Josh Johnson
Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary.
- [48:26]
Kara Swisher
See center for details. The UPS store. Visit us store today.
- [48:31]
Josh Johnson
Hi, this is Jevon, your blinds.com design consultant.
- [48:34]
Kara Swisher
Oh, wow. A real person Yep.
- [48:36]
Josh Johnson
I'm here to help with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to.
- [48:39]
Kara Swisher
Well, I've got a complicated project. No problem.
- [48:43]
Josh Johnson
I can even help schedule a professional measuring install. We can also send you samples fast.
- [48:47]
Kara Swisher
And I just might have to do more.
- [48:50]
Josh Johnson
Whatever you need.
- [48:51]
Kara Swisher
So the first room we're looking at.
- [48:52]
Josh Johnson
Is for shoplines.com now and get up.
- [48:54]
Kara Swisher
To 45% off with minimum purchase.
- [48:56]
Josh Johnson
Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply.
- [49:01]
Kara Swisher
So every week we get a question from an outside expert. We've got this guy came in with three questions because he's an overachiever, but we're going to play one of them. Let's listen.
- [49:10]
Josh Johnson
Hey, it's Mike Birbiglia.
- [49:11]
Kara Swisher
I'm a comedian. Also, I am a huge, huge fan of Josh Johnson.
- [49:17]
Josh Johnson
Josh, my question for you is, do you feel beholden to the format that you've perfected and invented? These weekly, BI weekly, topical, 30 minute to one hour specials? And are you worried secretly, deep down that the moment you wait a month to put out something new or stop, people will tap out of the phenomenon that is Josh Johnson?
- [49:44]
Kara Swisher
Wow. No pressure.
- [49:48]
Josh Johnson
So, yeah, I think one that's so nice like Mike is, that's genuinely. Wow.
- [49:54]
Kara Swisher
It's a secret shiv. But go ahead.
- [49:56]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, go ahead. I do think that there's a possibility that that happens. But there's also a possibility that I put out a half hour or whatever amount of time until I die and people check out anyway. It's like I can't control what other people do. I can only do the best work that I can. And for right now, I'm having a lot of fun doing what I'm doing. I'm very appreciative that people are enjoying it. And for as long as it lasts, I'm thankful. I think that people look at anyone who is interested in their work as like, as if it's like you have to be interested forever or it counts for nothing. If someone's a, a fan of what you do for seven years, that's incredible. And maybe they don't stop being a fan, but maybe they're like, ah, we get it.
- [50:46]
Kara Swisher
I've had enough of him.
- [50:48]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, I've had enough of him. And it's like, that's also okay. Like, I think because there is a.
- [50:52]
Kara Swisher
Treadmill aspect to social media and everything.
- [50:54]
Josh Johnson
Else, you have to think about 100%. And, you know, who knows? I've had friends be like, oh, people are gonna take it for granted and then they'll check out or maybe they'll Watch and then they'll stop watching. I'm like, like, yeah, but I don't know, I'm doing it for the people that are there.
- [51:09]
Kara Swisher
So I want to finish up talking about the role that comedy, especially satire, is playing right now in the political. We started talking about that. You talked about Carlin, who was one of the greatest political satirists and also very funny at the same time. What do you think your role is right now?
- [51:24]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, I think that my role, the thing that I hopefully do best is give people joy. And I don't know, I think that it would be dishonest of me to list a bunch of lofty things that I know that I can't really do because we do need the serious people to do the serious things. And I'm here trying to make people laugh or I'll point out when I think something is dumb. And I think that no matter how much a person may need that, that's not the same thing as passing legislation. That's not the same thing as, well.
- [52:00]
Kara Swisher
They don't pass legislation, but go ahead.
- [52:02]
Josh Johnson
No, no, that's very fair. That's very fair. I think, I guess to a certain degree I am doing as much as Congress, but I, I mean, did you.
- [52:10]
Kara Swisher
You see the other guy? The other guy? Yeah, the other guy named Johnson was like, let's see what happens with what Trump does. Let's give, let's give the guy a chance.
- [52:20]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, I, I think that I, my role, my responsibility is to do what I'm doing right now and do it to the best of my ability to like, share as openly as possible to remind people that they're not only that they're not only not alone, but also that they have people right next to them that will take care of them. We're so individualistic and we have so much capital on the mine that you forget that you're not in constant competition with everyone you meet all day. And so I think if I can like nurture that relationship and strangers towards each other, then I'm doing what I'm meant to do.
- [53:03]
Kara Swisher
See, I'm asking what your point is. I'm sorry, what is your point on this planet? Is there anything you find unfunny right now?
- [53:14]
Josh Johnson
That's a good question. I mean, I do think that there's, even though we're not in it yet, I look at the tariffs very seriously and I think about how there are people who voted for Trump who are just happy to see rich Dems lose money cuz they don't have any Money in the stock market. And I don't think that they understand that. It doesn't stop there. It's not like the stock market is this isolated thing, and that a lot of people will lose jobs when the rate of unemployment goes up, the rate of deaths go up. Like. Like, I do think it's something very, very serious. And so there's a lot about it that I don't find funny. I can still write jokes about how haphazardly it was put together, about people's reactions, about the inability of people to fix it, and that still doesn't take away from the seriousness of the people who will suffer from it. So, yeah, I think the tariffs is one thing that, like, in earnest, I don't necessarily find funny at all, but I think I can make funny through pointing out the things that we all see. You know, that sort of like, emperor having no clothes aspect of, like, when you do that, the thing is not funny. You're being led by someone who is deeply gullible, who isn't wearing clothes. But it is funny to be like, hey, that's he naked.
- [54:41]
Kara Swisher
All right, I have two. The cutting of Amber Ruffin from the White House Correspondent Centers next week or two weeks from now. Did anyone. What did comics think of that? We set a comic there, and they hired her for being edgy, and then they said, well, we don't need edgy right now.
- [54:58]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, I do think that there is some amount of. I mean, I don't even know if fraternity is the right word, but there is some amount of camaraderie that every comic feels when another comic is genuinely censored. And I don't mean censored as in, like, they did their jokes, they made their money, then people got mad, and they're like, y'all are killing me. I don't mean that. I mean, when someone genuinely loses an opportunity because of what they have to say, and I think that, if anything, I wish that more comedians would be vocal about Amber Ruffin's situation the way they are. When a comic is, like, you know, putting stuff out, making their money, but then getting backlash, and somehow that's an attack, but, like, actually losing an opportunity isn't an attack. Yeah, absolutely.
- [55:52]
Kara Swisher
All right, my last question does come from overachiever Mike. Again, we're gonna play the clip, and then you can answer it. Josh, do you believe in the concept of.
- [56:03]
Josh Johnson
Of there being a goat in comedy? And if so, are you the goat, or will you someday be the goat? Or are you open to accepting the title if one Day it was given to you by the comedy gods. Okay.
- [56:23]
Kara Swisher
And follow, if you aren't the goat, who is the goat right now, in your opinion? Besides Mike, obviously.
- [56:30]
Josh Johnson
So you sure I can't hear the third question? I don't.
- [56:36]
Kara Swisher
I forgot what it was.
- [56:38]
Josh Johnson
I don't believe in, like, a concept of a goat, really. I think maybe if you ask me on a different day, I'll give you a different answer. But I think that when something like art is so subjective, then you can be first at something. You can be the best at a particular thing. But I think that. That as long as we all have different preferences, as long as we all have different views on what art is, I think it would be a bit shortsighted to call any one individual the goat. And that doesn't just go for comedy. It kind of goes for everything. Because time's not over.
- [57:14]
Kara Swisher
No.
- [57:17]
Josh Johnson
Don'T get me wrong. If we really do all die, if this kills all of us, then, yeah, I guess when we are, like, in the ether, if we still have consciousness floating in the universe, we can be like, ah, that one guy was pretty good. Now that time's over and we know there's no one else coming. That one guy, he did it, you know? And I think that one thing that I find very interesting and every. I think every comic knows this, is that the people who enjoy them the most, the people who have found that comedian to be their favorites, will call them the Goat. Depending on who you ask, it's Wanda Sykes. Depending on who you ask, it's Maria Bamford, it's Bill Burr, it's Dave Chappelle, it's Chris Rock, it's Kevin Hart, it's whoever. And I think that sort of thinking, if it seeps too much into the mind, it can actually diminish the work. It's a lot like when you are a rapper and you're coming up and you have a lot of connection to community and people vibe with what you're putting out because they're part of that struggle that you're currently in because you're trying to get out of there. But then you do get out of there, from success, from Grammys, from notoriety. And then all of a sudden, you kind of don't know what to do with it because now you're like one of the greats. And then you don't relate to the people, the people don't relate to you. So if you just approach all the art that you make, the way that, like, a boxer is supposed to approach a fight, there are Plenty of fighters who thought that they were the Goat and didn't train. They were like, I'm the best. That's what. What's gonna happen to me? I'm the best. And then they got in the ring with someone who didn't think they were the best, and they were pummeled to oblivion.
- [59:04]
Kara Swisher
And it's like, yeah, that was Rocky iii, by the way.
- [59:07]
Josh Johnson
But those.
- [59:07]
Kara Swisher
Yes, yes.
- [59:08]
Josh Johnson
Somebody finally said it. And I think that that's what happens to artists if they get too in their heads and if they let people pump them up too much, it's like, you know, I could also still snap. Like, let's wait till I'm dead to call me anything.
- [59:25]
Kara Swisher
Okay. I wasn't calling you the Goat at all. It was mine.
- [59:28]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, yeah. No, I appreciate the energy you're bringing because that's very much.
- [59:34]
Kara Swisher
You know, that is what's happened to a lot of tech people. They've been licked up and down all day, and they think they're the best thing ever. Last. Very last question. It's a really hard time. It really is right now. The terrorists. It's not funny. What's happening is disturbing. People being taken off to prisons without having done anything in El Salvador, even if they're from Venezuela, et cetera. I want you to leave this crowd with one hopeful thing, and then we'll head out.
- [60:04]
Josh Johnson
Okay? I think that however you're feeling right now, you should talk about it and you should talk about it earnestly with people that you care about. And I think that when you do that and when you do that enough and not saying everyone works themselves into a frenzy. I mean, when you talk about how you feel about what's happening with other people, you see how they feel about it. I think that those are the ways that you figure out what to do about it. And when you know what to do about it and you take action, then things will change. And so whatever you're feeling right now is not permanent. It's not permanent in any manner of ways. So even if things, let's say, quote unquote, get worse as well, those things will not be permanent. Everything changes with time. And all we have is each other, and so we have to take care of each other. Each other are the priority. I think that the way that people look at the market as well, you see so many YouTube videos go up on Friday, like, how to protect yourself from the Trump terrorists. It's like, it's not yourself. You cannot protect yourself. You will not be able. If the Titanic is sinking, you are doomed. If you're trying to swim it alone to safety, that's just not gonna work.
- [61:38]
Kara Swisher
Josh, I said hopeful, but go, yeah.
- [61:39]
Josh Johnson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [61:42]
Kara Swisher
We somehow got to Titanic.
- [61:45]
Josh Johnson
I swear I'm getting to it. Okay, but in case I don't, you should just cut the episode right there. That would actually be very fun. You're like, josh, I said hopeful, and then thank you. No, we love to get out on a laugh, you know, but I genuinely believe that. I think that we, because of how individualistic we've become and because of how we've been socialized to think about our own upward mobility, we deeply underestimate the power of cooperation and community. And not only do I think that is the only way forward, but I think there's a lot of hope in the fact that we have not yet seen its powerful impact in our lifetime. So once again, the people that fought for the 40 hour workweek, the people that fought for everything that we enjoy without really having to think about it, they. They were the people that came together for those efforts. And so it can be done. It's already been done before, and we can do it again.
- [62:46]
Kara Swisher
I would agree. Josh, you're an incredibly thoughtful, astonishing performer.
- [62:52]
Josh Johnson
I appreciate y'all. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate y'all. Thank you so much. Thank you.
- [63:07]
Kara Swisher
On with Kara Swisher is produced by Christian Castor, Russell, Kateri Yocum, Dave Shaw, Megan Burney, Megan Cunane, and Kalyn Lynch. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Special thanks to Kate Gallagher. Our engineers are Rick Kwan and Fernando Arruda, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you don't just have the tools. You actually know how to fix a sink. Unless you're lesbian and you already did in the first place. If not, remember, you're more likely to build a community than become a billionaire. And it's so much better. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher, and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Kara Swisher from New York Magazine, the Vox Media podcast network, and us. We'll be back on Monday with more.