Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher – “Timothy Snyder and Bill Adair on the War on Truth & The Fight for Freedom”

Episode Details:

• Title: Timothy Snyder and Bill Adair on the War on Truth & The Fight for Freedom
• Host: Kara Swisher
• Guests: Timothy Snyder (Yale History Professor and Author) and Bill Adair (Founder of PolitiFact)
• Release Date: October 31, 2024

Introduction

In this critical episode of On with Kara Swisher, host Kara Swisher engages in a profound discussion with historian Timothy Snyder and fact-checking expert Bill Adair. The conversation delves into the escalating "War on Truth," the erosion of democratic values, and the pervasive spread of disinformation in contemporary society.

Washington Post’s Editorial Decision and Authoritarianism

The episode opens with a discussion about the Washington Post's controversial decision not to endorse a presidential candidate for the first time since the 1980s.

Timothy Snyder critiques the decision as a form of "anticipatory obedience," drawing parallels to historical authoritarian regimes. At [04:11], he states:

“Authoritarian regimes are built up collectively by people who make compromises... The problem with that is... what we're doing is we're handing over power precisely to the people who are trying to accumulate it.”

He warns that such moves by influential media outlets like the Post signal fear and compliance, potentially paving the way toward autocracy.

Jeff Bezos’ Op-Ed and Media Trust

Bill Adair criticizes Jeff Bezos' op-ed defending the Washington Post's stance, arguing that it undermines the editorial board's independence and fails to address the root issues of media trust. Snyder adds at [06:06]:

“What he did was override the independence editorial board... It signals part of the problem, that there's an institution at stake.”

The discussion highlights the backlash from both internal stakeholders and the public, including the resignation of prominent members and a significant loss of subscribers.

Impact of Social Media and Digital Oligarchs on Democracy

The conversation shifts to the role of social media platforms and their owners in shaping public discourse. Both guests express concern over figures like Elon Musk and their influence.

Snyder explains at [11:05]:

“There are two sides of the same phenomenon... oligarchic politics means that the federal government's not going to be able to do the things that it needs to...”

He links the behavior of digital oligarchs to a broader decline in democratic institutions, emphasizing how these platforms amplify divisive and false narratives.

The Big Lie and Historical Parallels

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the concept of the "Big Lie," as defined by Tim Snyder. He references Adolf Hitler's strategy of telling lies so colossal that people doubt anyone could have the nerve to distort the truth so infamously. At [43:28], Snyder states:

“When I applied the term big lie to Trump back in November 2020 about the election, what I had in mind was Hitler's advice... tell a lie so big that your supporters won't believe that you would deceive them on that scale.”

This tactic fosters an "us versus them" mentality, isolating truth-tellers and solidifying support among followers.

Fact-Checking and Its Limitations

Bill Adair discusses the origins and challenges of PolitiFact, emphasizing the persistence of political lies despite extensive fact-checking efforts.

At [19:33], Adair shares:

“The bad guys have found lots of ways to spread lies far and wide. And we have a party, the Republican Party, that lies so much that it's a serious problem for our democracy.”

Snyder suggests enhancements to fact-checking, including automating corrections and ensuring they reach wider audiences effectively.

Disinformation Governance and Personal Attacks

The hosts delve into the government-sponsored Disinformation Governance Board and the negative backlash faced by its head, Nina Jankowicz.

Bill Adair recounts how Republicans misrepresented the board, leading to personal attacks and threats against Jankowicz, illustrating how political agendas weaponize misinformation to discredit opponents.

Pre-Election Concerns and Hopes

As the episode approaches election day, both guests express their fears and hopes:

• Kara Swisher voices concern over recurring lies and the potential for election-related chaos.

• Bill Adair and Tim Snyder discuss the possibility of widespread disobedience to election results, reminiscent of past democratic crises.

Snyder articulates his fear at [16:09]:

“My biggest fear would be that regardless of whether the results are close, one side... continues and amplifies the big lie of four years ago, sets off a process of violent protests and uses bogus... state cases to throw them up to the Supreme Court...”

Solutions to Combat Disinformation

The conversation explores various strategies to counteract the war on truth:

1. Cultural Shift: Emphasizing the value of truth and fostering human connections to combat loneliness and susceptibility to misinformation.

2. Legislative Measures: Implementing laws to regulate social media platforms and reduce the spread of disinformation.

3. Enhanced Fact-Checking: Automating corrections and ensuring they are disseminated widely to counteract false narratives.

4. Education and Awareness: Promoting critical thinking and encouraging the public to seek out verified information sources.

Final Thoughts and Greater Threats

In concluding remarks, both guests identify key threats to democracy:

• Kara Swisher points to Donald Trump as a central figure propagating lies that undermine electoral integrity.

• Tim Snyder echoes this sentiment, highlighting Trump and digital oligarchs like J.D. Vance as significant threats. He also acknowledges external threats such as Vladimir Putin but emphasizes that internal figures perpetuating lies pose the immediate danger.

Snyder advises at [63:01]:

“The greatest enemy to democracy in the United States is obviously Donald Trump... We have to go out there and do those things [to protect democracy].”

Notable Quotes

• Timothy Snyder [04:11]:

  “Authoritarian regimes are built up collectively by people who make compromises...”

• Bill Adair [19:33]:

  “The bad guys have found lots of ways to spread lies far and wide...”

• Timothy Snyder [43:28]:

  “If you're going to tell a lie, tell a lie so big that your supporters won't believe that you would deceive them on that scale.”

• Kara Swisher [57:39]:

  “Lies are often much more plausible, more appealing to reason than reality...”

• Timothy Snyder [55:55]:

  “The Internet has engineered loneliness... human connections are necessary for freedom.”

Conclusions

The episode underscores the perilous state of truth in modern democracy, exacerbated by influential media figures and digital platforms. Snyder and Adair advocate for a reinvigorated commitment to factual integrity, legislative reforms, and societal shifts towards valuing truth and human connection. As Election Day looms, the conversation serves as a crucial reminder of the fragile nature of democratic institutions and the collective responsibility to safeguard them against the corrosive effects of disinformation.

Note: This summary captures the essence and key discussions from the episode, incorporating direct quotes with speaker attribution and timestamps to provide depth and context for readers unfamiliar with the original podcast.