Will California Elect a Republican Governor? Steve Hilton Thinks He Can Win

Summary

Podcast Summary: On with Kara Swisher
Episode: Will California Elect a Republican Governor? Steve Hilton Thinks He Can Win
Date: August 10, 2026
Host: Kara Swisher
Guest: Steve Hilton (Republican nominee for California Governor)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the candidacy of Steve Hilton, a British-American former Fox News host and advisor to UK PM David Cameron, who’s now running as the Republican nominee for Governor of California. With the state’s notorious “deep blue” politics and major affordability, homelessness, and business woes, Hilton discusses his pitch for change, his approach to bipartisan cooperation, and how he navigates his endorsement from Donald Trump. The discussion covers topics including California's economy, Trump’s influence, immigration, Big Tech, child online safety, Hollywood’s decline, housing, and more.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Why Steve Hilton Thinks He Can Win in California

• State in Crisis: Hilton argues that one-party (Democratic) rule has led to sky-high poverty, unemployment, cost of living, and business flight.
  • “We have the highest poverty rate in the country right now, tied with Louisiana. Highest unemployment rate of all 50 states. The highest cost of living, by far highest gas prices. Electric bills have doubled… housing, the most expensive in the country. It's just really tough to live here.” (Steve, 04:54)
• Appeal to Change: Points to polling that a majority of Californians now say the state is “going in the wrong direction and needs change.” (05:42)
• Non-Ideological Pragmatism: Casts himself as a “pragmatist” rather than an ideologue: “I'm not ideological. I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life. I just want everyone to be able to live the life they want… in an affordable way.” (07:19)
• Primary Win: Notes he pulled over 2 million votes, outperforming bigger names like Tom Steyer, by focusing on practical issues and a positive campaign. (06:46)

Navigating Trump and Democratic Voters

• Trump Endorsement: Kara notes Hilton’s endorsement by Trump and the challenge of winning across the partisan divide in a state where Democrats outnumber Republicans 2:1. (08:00)
• Message to Democrats: Hilton’s campaign explicitly targets anti-Trump but pro-change voters with ads like, "Can you be anti Trump and still vote for me?" (08:35)
• Disagreement with Trump: Cites specific policy breaks, such as confirming Biden won in 2020, opposing removing customs from CA airports and funding from the UC system. (10:26)
  • “I certainly have said very clearly, on the 2020 election, for example, Biden won the election. … I strongly disagreed with this suggestion that they would take out customs and border patrol from California airports … and with the withdrawal of funding from University of California.” (10:36–11:50)
• Relationship with Trump: Attempts to position himself as independent: “My attitude is I'm going to say what I think is in the interests of Californians, regardless of what, what the administration is doing.” (11:30–12:22)

Addressing Affordability and Working Across the Aisle

• Cost of Living: Hilton’s central promise is to lower costs—by increasing domestic oil production, cutting regulatory red tape, and eliminating state income tax for those earning under $100k-$150k.
  • “The first part of my tax plan… was to eliminate state income tax for lower paid workers… we've actually lifted it to 100. I got a lot of feedback that actually that level was too low … in California… $100,000 is poverty in some counties.” (17:41-17:51)
• Budget Cuts: Plans to return state spending to pre-pandemic levels (~$220B vs. current $350B), emphasizing eliminating “waste and inefficiency,” not slashing core services. (19:32-20:21)
  • “It's not cutting spending. It's just getting more value for money. … In California, it costs four times as much to build the exact same equivalent piece of road as it does in Texas.” (20:21)
• Executive Action: Cites direct actions possible as governor, such as change at CalGEM to boost local oil production. (17:51–19:18)
• Bipartisan Experience: Cites his role in coalition government in the UK as proof he can work with Democrats: “I was actively involved in negotiating the coalition agreement [in the UK]. … so I do have some experience of that.” (15:52)

Election Integrity and Voter Rights

• Mail-In Ballots: Believes the mail-in system is “secure” operationally, but laments outdated voter rolls. Not in favor of ending mail-in, calling it “convenient” and popular, but notes some personal preference for in-person voting. (24:10–24:37)
• No Evidence of Widespread Fraud: States his campaign “didn't see anything” to warrant concern or federal investigation in the primary. (25:19–25:38)
• Non-Citizen Voting: Doesn’t think illegal voting by non-citizens is widespread: “I don't think so.” (25:50)

Tech and Silicon Valley Regulation

• Gov's Role: Sees his priority as boosting business, not regulating tech—except in cases of children’s safety and copyright/creative rights.
  • “Of all the industries in California, the one that needs the least help right now is tech.” (30:20)
• Children & Social Media: Favors a “social norm” of restricting smartphone access for under-16s (or 14), but is wary about regulation’s effectiveness (“the problem is the device”), would rather push for enforcing school bans and convening tech leaders than state bans. (33:40–39:38)
  • “It's the device. It's unsupervised access to the Internet, specifically screens, specifically smartphones. … Children should not have smartphones.” (34:21)
• AI and Public Perception: Blames major AI founders (Sam Altman, Dario Amodei) for public backlash via “insane rhetoric” about risks: “If they really believed that what they were working on was going to destroy humanity… why would they keep working on it?” (40:59–41:43)
• Manufacturing and Tech Jobs: Emphasizes reshoring high-end production jobs and attracting bigger slices of the “full stack” of tech jobs back to CA. (32:16)

Immigration: Policy Position and Personal Narrative

• Immigrant Experience: Emphasizes his own story and pride in legal immigration: “I'm the candidate of the legal immigrant community for the legal immigrant community, but we have to be able to draw a line between legal and illegal.” (48:27)
• State Enforcement: Calls for a “calm, peaceful cooperation” between state and federal law enforcement on immigration, following California law (SB 54 allows limited cooperation).
  • “You don't need that kind of heavy handed enforcement. That would be my goal.” (50:34)
• Handling ICE Raids: Suggests cooperative local-federal enforcement would prevent disruptive federal raids and lawsuits. (50:40)
• On Dreamers: Clearly supports a form of protection: “Yeah, I think that's honestly unarguable… If you're born here. Yeah. Or if you're brought across as a child. Yeah, I think that's exactly right.” (54:50–55:12)

Hollywood, Industry, and Mergers

• Saving the Entertainment Industry: Advocates for larger, uncapped, and simpler tax incentives plus streamlined permitting via a reformed California Film Commission: “It’s a crisis... my attitude to this is we have to have a kind of wake up moment where anyone who's making these decisions sees a real change.” (55:46)
• Paramount-Warner Bros. Merger: Sides against California’s DOJ suit, arguing for market rationale and the importance of theatrical releases but acknowledges practical limitations as governor. (58:16–60:06)

Homelessness and Housing

• Enforce the Law: Calls for enforcing anti-camping laws and removing street encampments, coupled with expanding shelter and mental health capacity (including using federal waivers for Medicaid restrictions).
  • “It’s enforced the law. …You got to physically take people off the streets and put them somewhere where they can get better.” (60:51)
• Mental Health Beds: Cites arcane federal rules capping reimbursement for facilities above 16 beds; supports seeking federal waivers to expand mental health infrastructure. (62:00)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Affordability and California’s Crisis:
  “We have the highest poverty rate in the country right now, tied with Louisiana... The highest cost of living, by far. Highest gas prices… It’s just really tough to live here.”
  — Steve Hilton (04:54)

• On Trump and Partisan Divide:
  “Can you be anti-Trump and still vote for me? … There are millions of Californians who can't stand President Trump … but who think we need change in California.”
  — Steve Hilton (08:35)

• On Working with Trump:
  “My attitude is I’m going to say what I think is in the interests of Californians, regardless of what the administration is doing.”
  — Steve Hilton (11:30)

• On Tech Regulation:
  “Of all the industries in California, the one that needs the least help right now is tech.”
  — Steve Hilton (30:20)

• Phone Reveal:
  “It’s a flip phone.”
  — Steve Hilton, showing off his device (39:46)

• On AI Leadership:
  “If they really believed that what they were working on was going to destroy humanity… why would they keep working on it? … Insane rhetoric. They’ve done enormous damage.”
  — Steve Hilton, on Sam Altman & Dario Amodei (40:59)

• On Immigration Enforcement:
  “You don’t need that kind of heavy-handed enforcement. That would be my goal.”
  — Steve Hilton (50:34)

• On Homelessness:
  “It’s enforced the law… You got to physically take people off the streets and put them somewhere where they can get better.”
  — Steve Hilton (60:51)

• On Stay-or-Leave:
  “No, no, no. I love California. I wouldn't want to live anywhere. … And it's not just the physical beauty … There's a sort of spirit. I call it the rebel spirit. … I couldn't imagine being anywhere else.”
  — Steve Hilton (63:34)

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Important Timestamps

• California’s Blue Politics & Hilton’s Case: 04:35–06:33
• Winning Democrats & Trump Relationship: 08:00–13:20
• Affordability Platform & Tax Plan: 15:23–19:18
• Cutting Spending/Budget Context: 19:32–21:47
• Election Security / Mail-in Voting: 24:10–25:55
• Tech & AI / Child Safety: 29:54–39:38
• Expert Question (Sarah Longwell) & Immigration: 47:02–55:23
• Hollywood/Film Incentives & Merger: 55:23–60:06
• Homelessness and Housing Policy: 60:24–63:17
• Would He Leave California if He Loses?: 63:17–64:13

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Tone and Language

The conversation is sharp, direct, and substantive, marked by Kara Swisher’s signature no-nonsense, challenging style, and Hilton’s focus on pragmatic, technocratic fixes. Swisher frequently presses Hilton for specifics and to reconcile Trump support with California realities, maintaining a searching but civil tone. Hilton is measured, emphasizing data, administrative expertise, and a vision of pragmatic governance.

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Useful for Listeners

• Steve Hilton positions himself as a practical, anti-ideological Republican hoping to unite disaffected Democrats and independents around affordability, business-friendliness, and common-sense reform.
• He acknowledges the uphill battle in a Democratic stronghold and grapples with his ties to Trump, seeking to chart an independent course.
• Across tech, immigration, housing, and more, Hilton's platform centers on deregulation, cost-cutting, and streamlined government but also on working across the aisle—a theme sharpened by his responses to tough pushback from Swisher and guest Sarah Longwell.
• His ideas on child online safety focus more on device access than social media content regulation, and he is critical of AI industry leaders' alarmist rhetoric.

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For anyone seeking a comprehensive, real-world test case of Republican strategy in deep-blue terrain—and what a center-right campaign in 2026 looks like—this episode offers a vigorous, revealing 60-minute crash course.

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End of Summary.

Transcript

[Steve Hilton]

I love California, completely love it. I'm in love with it still. I get really excited driving around as I do and just seeing all these incredible things that we have. This everything is just amazing.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone from New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. This is on with Kara Swisher. And I'm Kara Swisher. It's been two decades since California voters elected a Republican to lead the state. And while it's a long shot, former Fox News host and British American Steve Hilton believes he can defy California's deep blue politics and become the state's next governor. He's trying to appeal to voters anger over the state's high cost of living and their desire for change. His personal story is also interesting. He was born in London to Hungarian refugees who fled communism and his background in Silicon Valley and as an advisor to former British Prime Minister David Cameron, could give him some separation from MAGA style Republican politics. But in a state like California, Hilton will have to win over a lot of Democrats to have any shot of winning in November. And if there's one thing California voters hate more than paying close to $6 a gallon for gas, it might be President Donald Trump. I do think Hilton's long shot bit is worth paying attention to, even if his chances of winning are slim because he's actually a very interesting thinker. Well, I do not agree with him on a lot of stuff and I thought he went sometimes off the rails on his Fox News show. He's also someone who's a lot more thoughtful and he is the kind of Republican absent Donald Trump. If he didn't have to be so close to him, that might be interesting to a lot of voters. We've also reached out to Hilton's Democratic opponent, former Health and Human Services Secretary Javier Becerra. His team declined an interview at this time. I don't think that's a great idea for anyone running for governor. They should talk to reporters and give interviews and not be safe. Sorry, sorry, Becerra, but you should have talked to me. So let's get to my interview with Steve Hilton. Our expert question comes from Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark. So stick around. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business takes everything you've got. And a lot of the tools out there that are supposed to make your life easier just aren't great at talking to each other. And that means you end up having to toggle between a dozen different apps and services just to keep the lights on. Enough of that. Now there's Odoo, the all in one fully integrated platform that actually might help you get it all done. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's O D O O dot com.

[Steve Hilton]

Hey, before your Q3 call, I've got the campaign brief ready. Built from last quarter's data and the competitive landscape.

[Sarah Longwell]

Great.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you include the differentiation angle the CMO asked for?

[Steve Hilton]

Already in there. Three angles. No competitors using right now. Just need your approval.

[Kara Swisher]

Approved. Thanks. Oh agents, where would we be without you?

[Steve Hilton]

H somewhere with a lot more tabs open.

[Kara Swisher]

Create your first Monday agent in [e-mail]

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[Kara Swisher]

Steve, thank you for coming on on.

[Steve Hilton]

Of course. Great to be with you.

[Kara Swisher]

So we've known each other for a long time, correct? I guess we met through Rachel, your wife.

[Steve Hilton]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I will say I'm going to pay you a compliment. You wanted to come and do an interview. Mr. Becerra would not so I appreciate that you're here.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, it's great to be here. I mean, I just think it's important to have conversations just generally. And I know you're gonna give me an incredibly easy time. Kara. So it was a no brainer to come and talk to you today.

[Kara Swisher]

I thought so. I knew you could keep up. But let's start with the first question. California is one of the bluest states in the nation and hasn't elected a Republican for governor since Arnold Schwarzenegger's re election in 2006. So to start, give us your theory of the case. Why do you think you could be the state's next Republican governor?

[Steve Hilton]

I think it really starts with the reality of life in California. We've had 16 years now where you've had one party in control. And the results, especially for regular working people, small business owners in particular, are just really tough. Right. I mean we can go through the data, but it's bad. I mean, we have the highest poverty rate in the country right now, tied with Louisiana. Highest unemployment rate of all 50 states. The highest cost of living, by far highest gas prices. Electric bills have doubled in the last 10 years. They're now double the national average. Groceries, the most expensive. A lot of that is driven by energy costs. Housing, the most expensive in the country. It's just really tough to live here.

[Kara Swisher]

This is not a new thing, Steve. This is not a new thing. It was tough to live here during Schwarzenegger. It's tough. California has always been one of the most expensive states in general.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, but I think it's this sort of combination of things. You've got all of those economic factors. You've got the fact that the homelessness problem seems so intractable. The school results are really bad, even though we spend a lot of money per student. I think it's just a sort of combination of all these things. The business climate, I think, is definitely something that's gotten worse. And you see that reflected in so many companies leaving and actually the lost investment from businesses that normally you'd have expected maybe to set up in California. Then now the choice is wider in terms of other states where you can do a startup, whatever it may be. You know that very well. So I think basically it's just all these things have come together to a point where there's a majority. Now, this is news. If you look at the polling right across the board, there's a clear majority who say the state's going in the wrong direction and needs change. And that wasn't the case before.

[Kara Swisher]

So why you? Why are you the person who can fix this? Because, like I said, these aren't new problems. And homelessness in particular has been intractable through many governors, including Schwarzenegger. Why are you the person to fix this?

[Steve Hilton]

Well, the sort of literal, factual answer to the question is that 2.3 million people voted for me in the primary to be the challenger. And so the question behind that is, well, why did I succeed in the primary, beating even Tom Steyer with his hundreds of millions of dollars?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, it's good to know money doesn't buy politics. You know how much money Elon's going to be putting into this race? I'm guessing, but go ahead.

[Steve Hilton]

I don't know about that, but we'll. I don't know. I haven't heard anything along those lines yet. But look, I think that the sort of prior question is, well, why did I do well in the primary? I think it's because I'VE been putting forward, honestly, a pretty pragmatic, positive set of things to change those basic realities in California, especially focused on cost of living in the business climate. And we can get into the individual elements there. But it's been something that is not. I really feel strongly that who I am as a kind of person who's now participating in this race is someone who's just a pragmatist. I'm not ideological. I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life. I just want everyone to be able to. To live the life they want in California in an affordable way. And that's really what got me focused on running. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Now, you did get a lot of votes. There weren't a lot of Republicans running. It was you and former Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco, who seems vaguely insane, who was a very hard MAGA guy. But let's talk first about President Trump has endorsed you in the race. But in California, Democrats have a nearly 2 to 1 voter registration advantage, as you know, over Republicans. That a poll came out last month, pretty closely mapped that had you trailing the Democrat candidate Becerra by 25 points. So you'll need Democrats to win. So make the case for why a Democrat should vote for people who are independent slash Democrats.

[Steve Hilton]

So I've been directly making that case since this phase of the election. We actually launched our general election campaign a couple of weeks ago now in East Los Angeles, Boyle Heights, working class Latino neighborhood that'd been in the news because there's that terrible warehouse fire there that burned out of control for a week. And then you had the terror, terrible situation with like 85 million pounds of rotting meat and flies and disease and the terrible smell. It just really represented for me a classic example of a community just let down and abandoned by the leadership of the city and the state. And we actually ran ads in the LA Times and the San Francisco Chronicle and some other publications explicitly addressing your question. And the headline of the ads was, can you be anti Trump and still vote for me? And we put forward a number of questions. For example, this is in the, you know, the sort of test that you could take. I'm a Democrat, but I think the state needs change. I care about climate, but $6 gas is insane, et cetera. I can't remember those exact questions, but in other words, there are millions of Californians who can't stand President Trump. That is very clear. There's not a mystery who would never think of themselves as Republican, but who think we need change in California.

[Kara Swisher]

So you think they can bifurcate on this issue because regardless of party, there's lots of people who aren't happy with the president. Barely a third of American approve of his job performance right now. I'd like to.

[IQ Bar Ad Voice]

One of the things.

[Steve Hilton]

And you see that in other states, actually. So for example, there are other states, Vermont, Maryland, either now or in the past where you've had a strongly Democrat state that elected a Republican governor.

[Sarah Longwell]

Sure.

[Kara Swisher]

In Massachusetts.

[Steve Hilton]

Exactly. So it's not an unusual thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, maybe that's a particular kind of Republican. And I'm not so sure you are. That and politics are different right now.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, let's see.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me ask you, give us two examples where you disagree with the president on politics policy issues. This is sort of the Kamala Harris on the View question. What's he doing bad for California?

[Steve Hilton]

I don't, I mean, look, the biggest one, I don't know if you'd call it a policy question, but I certainly have said very clearly, you know, on the 2020 election, for example, Biden won the election. I mean, that's something where I definitely, you know, he has a different view.

[Kara Swisher]

I will note that you didn't say certified. Thank you. Because I would have slapped you.

[Steve Hilton]

I could feel the energy. Exactly.

[Kara Swisher]

So Biden won the election. Go ahead.

[Steve Hilton]

The way I think about it is that as things come along, there's a few things since I've been a candidate. For example, I strongly disagreed with this suggestion that they would take out customs and border patrol from California airports in retaliation for the state sanctuary policy. That's ridiculous. You'd only have international flights going to neighboring states. Ridiculous. I don't agree with the withdrawal of funding from University of California. It's an incredibly important institution in our state. Maybe there are things that we need to improve in terms of the focus of the university system here on anti Semitism, whatever it may be, but I don't think that's a sensible way to prosecute that. I don't know what's another landline? Right. The FCC just sided with the phone companies against California regulators on the provision of landlines as a service for people who couldn't get cell service. So I think that my attitude is I'm going to say what I think is in the interests of Californians, regardless of what, what the administration is doing. However, I think it's just be honest to say that it's a Republican administration. I'm a Republican candidate. Generally speaking, you'd expect me to agree with the kind of direction in terms of economic policy reform, deregulation tax cuts, those kinds of things I support. Yeah. And I think we need more of it in California.

[Kara Swisher]

So Trump prizes loyalty above all else. And you know this. He seems to take credit for your primary victory. How are you going to walk that line of appealing to disaffected Democrats that you're talking about without hurting his feelings and having him lash out because he does that. He just went after Jeanine Pirro for telling the truth about the Lincoln Reflecting Pool.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, I think the answer is we'll see. Look, my attitude is just to be open and have a good relate. And it's not just the president, it's his team. I know many of his senior team. Rollins, the Ag Secretary is going to be hugely important for us in California with the trouble our ag industry is in. Doug Bergam for Interior. We've got to do a lot on our forest management and so on. So I think that there's, the way I think about it is let's just be practical and focus on what we can do together to help California. And I think it's just good to have a governor that has those kinds of relationships.

[Kara Swisher]

California also occupies a uniquely, almost international role.

[IQ Bar Ad Voice]

Right.

[Kara Swisher]

It could be a country unto itself and a very, very successful one. When you get to international issues, like the war in Iran, again, will be the same thing. When you disagree with, are there things that you very much disagree with them on an international basis right now?

[Steve Hilton]

I just don't think I'll be getting into that, honestly. I think there's just a lot to fix here in California. I think one of the problems we've had, and it's not just limited to California, first of all, I just want to agree with you. Of course, you're right. And I'm proud of the fact that we're the fourth biggest economy in the world. That is great. And I think we can do even better. With the reforms I'm talking about in terms of our business climate, I think we can become the third biggest and overtake Germany. That's my goal, as well as doing it in a way that actually helps lift up working people and small business, not just big tech companies, which is kind of where we're going at the moment. I think that in terms of the international thing, I really, I think there's been too much of that. I really do. I think that Gavin Newsom, for example, has been sort of running around doing, you know, signing international agreements and trying to, in a way, act as a counterweight to the Trump administration's foreign policy. And I just Think meanwhile, we have the highest gas prices in the country. That's crushing working people. Can you just focus on that? The fact that less than half the kids in the country.

[Kara Swisher]

That could be. About the situation in Iran, Steve. I mean, I don't think that's within gas.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, it's $2 higher now than anywhere else in the country, even with the situation in Iran. Let's.

[Kara Swisher]

We have more taxes here on gas,

[Steve Hilton]

but yeah, we have the highest gas tax, but mainly it's regulatory. So it's the low carbon fuel standard. It's the cap and trade. Sorry, they now call it cap and invest. It's refinery regulations. There's a whole bunch of things we do in California that actually don't the climate at all. They make no difference to climate. They just really hurt, especially those people who use their cars and cars.

[Kara Swisher]

I get the higher prices, but the most of the raise is because of Iran right now. I mean, you would acknowledge that that's what's happening.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, but not the relative. I mean, it's $2 higher here than the rest of the country. So let's at least get that down.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, so you're running on a platform of affordability in a state with notorious affordability problems. The issue Democrats have struggled to tackle even with full control of the government. Assuming you won't get that, where can you. You're gonna need to work across the aisle on the issue and what executive level to ease the cost of living. And let's be specific here because it's such a huge issue and people want to hear not I want to get people better job. Be very specific about what you mean and how you're going to. You're going to have to work with Democrats one way or the other.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, yeah. And I've got experience with that. I mean, the last job that I did before moving here in 2012 with my wife Rachel, who, you know, and our kids was, was in the UK Government. I was senior advisor to the Prime Minister. I really focused on domestic policy there. He was a Conservative Prime Minister, David Cameron, but it was a coalition government. Two parties, another party, the Liberal Democrats. I was actively involved in negotiating the coalition agreement. And then I lived that every day. I actually shared an office in 10 Downing Street, a little office right next to the Cabinet Room with my opposite number from another party, Polly MacKenzie. We would sit there every day and we would, you know, hash it out and often the policy process would go through us. So I do have some experience about that of that. The other thing I'd say is that during the primary campaign, what was interesting to me was how much common ground there was between the candidates, between me and the other Democrats, definitely, in terms of the diagnosis of the problem, as you just said, you know, there's no disagreement about that. I remember the very first kind of candidate forum we did. I think it was the Chamber of Commerce in Sacramento about a year ago. And it wasn't all the candidates about like five other Democrats that. And they went in front of me before me and like everything they said was what I was planning to say. Antonio Viragosa stands out. He was the first one. I remember it so clearly. He said, we have the worst business climate in America. We have to do more to help business, et cetera. So I think there's shared ground in terms of the problem, in terms of solutions, I think there's shared ground. For example, Katie Porter, who at one point was leading the Democrat pac, she adopted my tax plan and said so very openly in the debates. So the first part of my tax plan in the primary was to eliminate state income tax for lower paid workers. Your first.

[Kara Swisher]

That's one of your big campaign promises, to eliminate state income tax?

[Steve Hilton]

Yes.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me be specific. For people who make less than $100,000 a year, and as you said, others campaigned on this idea too.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, we've actually lifted it to 100. I got a lot of feedback that actually that level was too low, which to a lot of people in the might sound crazy, but actually in California, we've got multiple counties now where, because of the cost of living, the official poverty level, low income, is 100,000. So you've got a lot of people who are not by no definition wealthy, really struggling in that category between 100 and 150. So we've lifted it and we've made adjustments to the overall financing as a result. So I think there really will be areas of common ground where we can get things done. Not everything, but something things. On your question about executive orders, I think there's a couple of specific examples. So one part of my plan to bring gas prices down is to stop the insanity of importing nearly 80% of the oil that we use in California from countries like Iraq or the Amazon rainforest, rather than producing it here in California. The way that Newsom and the current administration has shut down California production is through an agency called CalGEM, California Geologic energy Management. And it's the process through which they refuse to give permits for any part of the production process, including maintenance of wells. That's how they've shut it down. So that's a direct change you can make by putting in their people or

[Kara Swisher]

by putting in the appointment system.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah. Or even maybe the same people will, you know, will come to their senses. Just need some common sense on this stuff. So there's a lot of areas where you can really affect it directly through executive action.

[Kara Swisher]

But getting back to your tax plan, Porter plan to make up for the drop in state revenue that would come with that by taxing wealthy people more. Your plan is to cut services and waste, as you call it.

[Steve Hilton]

No spending. That's not the same.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Okay. What are you going to cut?

[Steve Hilton]

So I just wanted to put it in the context of the budget. So they've doubled the budget nearly in the last 10 years. It's especially rapidly accelerated since the pandemic. So the argument that spending more gives you better results I think has been disproven by the facts. So I think we just got a reign in the spending. What's really happened is the pandemic spending has got baked into the baseline. If you look at the budget this year that Newsom just signed off, it's about $350 billion. The budget that he proposed in January 2020, just before the pandemic, 220 billion looks like a massive increase. That's my target. I would like to get the budget back to pre pandemic levels, allowing for inflation. So when you take inflation into account, that's probably 100 billion reduction in spending. Obviously you're not going to do that in one go.

[Kara Swisher]

So where.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, there's different categories. So I'll give you one example. That's not cutting spending. It's just getting more value for money. So you can reduce the spe. There's a contractor I spoke to, she does roads, road building. They do public works all over the country. She was explaining that in California, it costs four times as much to build the exact same equivalent piece of road as it does in Texas. Now their road quality is rated higher than ours. It's not going into that. It's going into all this unnecessary process and bureaucracy. The kind of stuff that Ezra Klein has pointed out and Derek Thompson in their book Abundance, you know, project labor agreements, community workforce agreements, endless environmental processes. If you strip all that out out, you can get the same result with less money. So that's one category, getting just better value for the money that you're putting in. Secondly, there are areas where I think we shouldn't be spending the money. And here I would say is what national Democrats. Chuck Schumer hakeem Jeffries and particularly have said is an unacceptable area of spending. And that is full scope. Medi Cal Medicaid, as it's known across the country for citizens of other countries. Now, that's about $13 billion a year in California. Even Gavin Newsom has said that's gone too far and they're now reducing eligibility for that. I just think that when Californians are struggling to pay healthcare costs, it's just not acceptable use of money. And national Democrats agree with that.

[Kara Swisher]

So Democrats absolutely deserve some of the blame for California's affordability problem. There's no question about that. But also currently, the Trump administration's policies are also hurting Americans. Tariffs have driven up prices, as I noted, the war in Iran. And Trump isn't helping Republic Republicans like you by saying things like he's not even thinking about Americans finances even a little bit. Again, since Trump is such a huge figure everywhere and is fixated on California, among other states, how would you handle situations where you believe the president's policies are making California's cost of living worse? I've heard from so many Californians about the tariffs because there's a lot of import export businesses here and they directly blame Trump for this.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, I think that that's a good example of. I want to focus on the things that general policy direction that isn't going to affect. There's not a particular effect on California. It's just a policy position and it's not going to affect it. So I think I would not get involved in that. But where you've got specific things that affect California, I think it's going to be very important on agriculture, actually, if you look at the impact of some of the policies on beef. I was just with some beef producers, our largest beef producer actually, the other week, and where there are specific things that you can say, look, are you aware that this is really hurting our producers here then? Yeah, I would lobby very hard for that.

[Kara Swisher]

You would advocate the White House? These things are hurting the people you represent. That seems to be your job. You could tell them tariffs are hurting businesses. What effect could you have?

[Steve Hilton]

Well, I wouldn't make a broad. I would say this particular thing. I think it's always good to focus on the details and something specific. I don't, I mean, I don't know, but at least I'm going into it with a good relationship, particularly on ag with Brooke Rollins, who I know very well and I don't know. I mean, we'll see. But I think that that's, I think it's a good example of where I think it's helpful to have someone who at least has a good relationship so you can pick up the phone and say, come on, this is not. Oftentimes it may just be they're not aware of the impact. And so you might win that argument because it was something that wasn't particularly an important priority for them anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he does love those tariffs. Trump has been sowing a lot of doubt about the US Election system. So I want to quickly hit a few of this and get some short answers from you. Is California's mail in ballot system secure?

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, the voter rolls are not and so that part of it I think is the problem where you've got millions of ballots sent out to people who have moved out of state or moved multiple addresses. And so that definitely is a problem. I think the sort of general concept of it, the general, the operation of it I think is, is secure. Yeah, I think it's the voter rolls part that's not.

[Kara Swisher]

And you're pro mail in ballots?

[Steve Hilton]

No, not really. I mean, I think they're convenient. I mean, I generally like, I personally,

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, Donald Trump does.

[Steve Hilton]

Does it personally, I love voting on election day. I love the civic ritual. I think that's great. But I absolutely understand that it's convenient. And funnily enough, I think that as a candidate you can see that it's in many ways helpful to have mail in voting and early voting because it helps you target your resources in terms of getting out the vote. So I don't think there's any going back on that. I think that actually people like it and so fine, let's keep it.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you agree with Trump's claims that there were irregularities in the state's primary election results enough so as to warrant investigation from federal prosecutors like Trump asked for?

[Steve Hilton]

I mean, we didn't, we didn't see anything. I mean, look, we, we, you know, we. All I know is what we saw in our campaign. As I said at the time, I wanted to make sure to our supporters that we were on top of everything and so on, and we, we didn't see anything, anything that caused us concern.

[Kara Swisher]

So you don't think a federal investigation?

[Steve Hilton]

Well, I think that Bill isai, who's the U.S. attorney, I think he was going to do it anyway. I don't know actually, I haven't spoken to Bill about it. So I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

Is illegal voting of non citizens a widespread problem in California?

[Steve Hilton]

I don't think, I don't think so.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, neither does anybody else but Trump.

[Sarah Longwell]

Trump does.

[Steve Hilton]

There's definitely controversy over extending it to local elections. I can't remember where we stand on that. I think San Francisco did it for school boards.

[Sarah Longwell]

Boards.

[Steve Hilton]

I think it's being debated in la. I don't know. I think. I don't agree with that. No. I think the real problem is the voter rolls being so out of date. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be back in a minute.

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[Sarah Longwell]

co

[Kara Swisher]

so let's move on to tech and Silicon Valley. You mentioned it briefly and you said the job of a governor is to grow the economy and support industries here rather than regulate them. In the past you've been critical of corporate monopolies at the same time in concentrated power like we see in tech increasingly. So what role, if any, should the state play in regulating massive homegrown industries like tech? And how have your views evolved over time?

[Steve Hilton]

Okay, I think that I just want to start by saying I really do see it as my job as governor to help every industry in California. I think that of all the industries in California, the one that needs the least help right now is tech. To be honest, they're doing well. I think that Just, just, I don't want to detour into this, but I think that the two industries that I think really need emergency attention from the governor is agriculture that we've mentioned, but also entertainment. I think there's a massive, you know,

[Kara Swisher]

I'm going to ask you about that later.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, so I, I've spent a lot of time on that. Right, let's get to tech. So I think generally speaking it's not top of my list of priorities in terms of going to help. There's probably two issues that when I think of AI, I don't know. I know it's not just AI, but obviously that's the dominant narrative in tech right now. I think think that broadly speaking I'm very nervous and cautious about unintended consequences of regulations where the people doing the regulating don't know what they're talking about. I think there's two major areas where I think we probably need more regulation urgently. One is in relation to children and one is in relation actually connects to Hollywood and entertainment on copyright and artists rights and the creative product and all of that. So I think those two are really important areas. Honestly I think the main thing I'm focused on in relation to tech is actually getting to use a tech term, the full stack of tech jobs into California. So what you've seen lately is all these California homegrown companies, really fantastic companies. Nvidia for example is the big one. You know, last year, 2025, I think it was April, they made a huge announcement about investment in the U.S. even if, you know, they inflate these numbers for the press release and they were talking about half a trillion dollars dollars of investment, none of it in California later that year. Anthropic big investment that was all going to, I think New York and Texas

[Kara Swisher]

and that's where all the they still, we get our fair share, I would say.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, but this is the point, right? So you've got this contrast, you've got fourth biggest economy in the world. A lot of that is driven by these big tech companies and the huge revenue that they bring in and the highest unemployment rate in the country. And also to use a really nerdy term, the labor force participation rate is pretty historically low in California it's about 62 point something percent. At its peak in California it's been nearly 70%. So you take those two together, the highest unemployment rate, low labor force participation. There's probably about 4 or 5 million Californians of working age who are not working. And I think the gap is in these manufacturing blue Collar type jobs. And so I want to see the manufacturing and high end production side of tech here as well. That's really what I'm interested in.

[Kara Swisher]

But in an interview with Semaphore, you said government regulators are aiming at the wrong targets. The problem isn't the tech companies, other apps it screens and children's unsupervised access to the Internet. So who's responsible for that? I mean, right now there's talk that Meta is going to start being heavy on the child safety thing. They're looking for anything at this point. I don't know if you've seen their recent ads where they, they believe in humans now apparently, which is great.

[Steve Hilton]

Good to know.

[Kara Swisher]

Disclosure, your wife worked there, but I'm sure she laughed at it too. So who's responsible besides. And how can the government do that? I mean they've had very little as you know, very little regulation on anything.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been on this a long time, honestly. So you mentioned human. I wrote this book in 2015 called More Human Designing a World where People Come First. It was my book coming out of Working in the Government. And the theme of the book, the sort of argument was everything in the world's become too big and bureaucratic and centralized and distant from the human scale and is applying that argument to different areas of policy. And there's a whole chapter on childhood. And in it I argued at the time, just as you referenced, that the real problem is not the apps and the websites or whatever it is, it's the device. It's the unsupervised access to the Internet, specifically screens, specifically smartphones. So what I argued back then was that under, that children should not have smartphones. Now I didn't propose a specific policy, I just said I don't think it's a good idea. And they are. And when you ask the question like who's responsible? Often the reply comes, well, it's parents who are responsible. And in an ideal world, yeah, that's generally true. I believe parents, you know, I'm a parent, you've got responsibility for your own kids. But I think it's a classic example of a kind of, you know, it's kind of like the pollution problem, which is, is you're affected by other people's decisions. In particular, that kind of, you know, peer pressure point, which is, okay, fine, you don't want your own child to have a smartphone. And I don't meet many parents who think they should. They all just feel they have to because all the other kids have them, sure.

[Kara Swisher]

Again, where does the government step in?

[Steve Hilton]

Well, so the. I'm just trying to work to. And I want to have more conversations on this with people like comment. Jim Starr at Common Sense and so on has been very good on all this, which is to say, look, and, and obviously, you know, we've had that what's his name's book last year that had a big impact on all of this.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, Jonathan Haidt.

[Steve Hilton]

Jonathan, of course. Yeah. And I think where he was going was let's try and establish a social norm which is not regulation, it's not making it illegal, but if we can establish a social norm that helps parents enforce a rule. I think his age was 14 actually for small.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but he's, he's calling for regulation. I mean, there's a mountain of evidence that say social media companies knew their products were harmful to kids and time after time chose engagement over safety in the design. Earlier this year, a Los Angeles jury found Meta and YouTube liable in a case about whether they designed their platforms to hook kids in a landmark lawsuit. And I of course, interviewed parents who say their children died by suicide with the encouragement of Chatbox. And if you read, if you read the, these texts between them, it's very disturbing and heartbreaking, but I think it would be better for the federal government to step in and regulate these platforms. But it hasn't. And that means it has been up to the states. So what's happening right now is a lot of these are product liability lawsuits versus because they've been pushing against the First Amendment part of it. But now. Or Section 230, why shouldn't California follow the evidence and adopt, say, a social media ban, as some countries have been done? I mean, if the government isn't going to get.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, like Australia started it and it's

[Kara Swisher]

France, it's going to Spain, your home country.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, but no, and the early verdicts are not good on that in terms of kids being able to get it. Well, because it's ineffective. So I'd much rather have something that's effective.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I could argue kids drink. And yet we say as a country they can't drink till they're 21. Or kids smoking. Lots of kids smoke. But it doesn't.

[Steve Hilton]

No, that's actually my argument to when people say, well, how are you going to. To stop kids having phones under 16? I say, well, maybe you won't, but at least you're setting a guideline. And if most follow it, that's good news, that's progress. I think that in terms of the social media ban. I think it's so easy to evade. That's the problem. The problem is the smartphone.

[Kara Swisher]

It's so easy to evade drinking. We have rules about drinking, we have rules about smoking, we have rules about driving. Why not have rules about social media if it's a product liability issue?

[Steve Hilton]

I think it's bigger than social media. It's digital content. It's the unsupervised access to this where kids when they're not in school, I mean, for example, one thing we can do at least is enforce the school smartphone ban. That's one. I really agree with Gavin on that. Except classic California. We've passed this thing and it's not enforced at all. So let's at least do that. Right, so you've got wide consensus now that you have, you should have a smartphone ban in school. Schools. But then in a way that puts it onto parents. Like the only time is, is outside of school. And I think that that's, that's the problem, which is the smartphone. Because you can't be supervising your kids all the time. You want them to have their independence and so they will find ways around these bands. And then, you know, like in Australia for example, they had a sort of specified number of apps. Well, if there's a new one, do you keep at. It's like a whack a mole thing. I think as much more effective to try and stop kids having smartphones. I think that would do much greater good.

[Kara Swisher]

So remove the device itself.

[Steve Hilton]

Yes.

[Kara Swisher]

Which you'll think would be much harder, I would imagine. I'm sure Apple would love to hear that from you.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, I'm sure that actually. Let's talk about that. I'm sure that actually their response to that as a fantastic, you know, innovative company would be to say can we not invent a really attractive like not phone that still allows kids to text each other maybe or call each other or stay in touch with their parents that just doesn't have the Internet all the time.

[Kara Swisher]

Apple spends a lot of time trying to stop doing age verification and fighting with Meta over it because Meta doesn't think it should do age verification and Apple doesn't think it should do age verif. It's a really interesting fight where nothing's happening to you could verify ages of using these devices.

[Steve Hilton]

I mean it's a good example. I mean my response to that, my instinctive response to that is in a way that's why I want to do this show. It's one of the reasons I want to do this job. I think you have a real ability as governor to get those people around a table and have a real conversation, say, come on, guys, let's figure this out. Where we are is not acceptable. And you can't just keep blaming each other. Let's, you know, you say this, you say that. Let's talk together and fix it.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you. Do you have a phone now?

[Steve Hilton]

I do.

[Kara Swisher]

You didn't have a phone.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, I have. I'll show you. It's right. This is my phone.

[Sarah Longwell]

What is it?

[Kara Swisher]

One of these?

[Steve Hilton]

It's a flip phone.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you have a flip phone.

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Wow.

[Sarah Longwell]

I know.

[Kara Swisher]

You've really made it up upwards.

[Steve Hilton]

It's an upkin. This is real technological progress for me.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Okay.

[Steve Hilton]

You're right. For a long time I had less.

[Kara Swisher]

You'll just go right to the glasses. AI in particular. The backlash is real, though. We did just did an episode about data centers that were flashpoint across the country in the midterms. And a recent Gallup poll found Americans are becoming more skeptical AI and not less as they become more familiar with it. And it's especially true of young people. My both sons have great worries about it. Who's to blame for that growing enthusiasm gap then? And how would you try to bridge it as g. Because there's all these, as you and I know, amazing things that could be done with AI but the AI leadership feels villainous at this point. Talking about babies being more energy than AI which is not a particularly good argument or we're all going to die. That was a nice message. Or get used to it. Too bad if you lose your jobs. Where do you blame the enthusiasm gap? Because it's a real thing. And data centers to me is the proxy for it of the answer factor.

[Steve Hilton]

It's a proxy. I think that.

[Kara Swisher]

And abuses, like actual abuses by, say, Elon in Memphis. Those are real abuses of local areas and. And local citizens. But go ahead.

[Steve Hilton]

So I overwhelmingly. I think the blame is with. It's probably two people actually the kind of, you know, double A boy, whatever you want to call them. Altman and Amade. They've been completely insane rhetoric over the last couple of. Insane in this sense. Right. If they really believed that what they were working on was going to destroy humanity, gonna end the human race. Destroy. What then? Why would they keep working on it? I mean, what kind of pathological person would do that if you truly believe that? So why are they doing that? Why? I think it seems they've dialed it back. But they've done enormous damage. Enormous damage.

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[Steve Hilton]

Because that narrative has taken hold. And it was the first narrative about this really. I remember actually, funnily enough, got in more human in 2015. It was just emerging. The technology was really. And I wrote about it and I said, look, I don't know. It's just emerging. I'm not an expert. It's laughable. Now in retrospect, this is what I wrote. I'm not quoting, but something like this, well, I'm not the expert. I don't know where this technology is going. It's certainly going to have a huge impact. But the good news is that some of the smartest people on the planet who really know about this have gotten together and formed an institute called OpenAI which will make sure that AI is developed in a way that benefits humanity. And Elon and all. All these. So look what happened there. I think that they bear the greatest responsibility. I think that on data centers, Remember the data centers, as, you know, people use their phones all the time and try and, you know, every time you fire up Google Maps or whatever, that's a data center as well as AI. It's. I mean, that's obviously now. Now part of the product. So I think it is a proxy for the concerns. And I think there are so many simple, practical ways that you can turn the data center thing around. And we're seeing some of that actually coming from the federal administration in terms of electricity usage. The Times had a great story about that recently. I think that's all sensible stuff that you can do. And also in terms of where you locate them and the noise, I think everything that people are concerned about in terms of data centers can and should be mitigated. And if the companies aren't doing it voluntarily, absolutely, the government should make them do it because it's an. It's essential infrastructure.

[Kara Swisher]

I interviewed the mayor of Lansing, Michigan and he did one of these good data centers and the citizens still didn't want it because of the anger towards.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, we'll see whether one of

[Kara Swisher]

the biggest issues going forward.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, I mean, I think on the. Generally on. On a. I mean, I, I think that you've got. Also there's a big potential which hasn't really been talked about as much in terms of. Of the bringing manufacturing back. If you can use AI to really reduce the cost of manufacturing and combine it with automation, then you could see a real reshoring of manufacturing because suddenly it becomes affordable to make things in California again.

[Kara Swisher]

Sure.

[Steve Hilton]

And AI could be a real part of that.

[Kara Swisher]

Except you might not need people as much. Right? That's. I mean, you're talking about your.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, but you need people to. You need some people. I mean, you know, and the scale of it could be really big.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be back in a minute.

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[Kara Swisher]

Speaking of people, immigration is a huge issue in diverse states like California. Every episode we get an expert question from outside. Here's yours.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hello, Steve Hilton. I'm Sarah Longwell, publisher of the Bulwark, and you have a lovely accent, but your story is a quintessentially American one. You're the British born son of Hungarian immigrants. You get an Oxford education. You ascend to the heights of British politics working for David Cameron and the British Conservative Party. You come to America, you make a name for yourself here, and you end up as the Republican nominee to run the biggest state in the union. That is a genuinely inspiring immigrant story and a tribute to the power of immigrants. Yet you're endorsed by Donald Trump, a man who calls immigrants vermin, who are poisoning the blood of our country and whose ICE agents are killing innocent people on the streets of America. Right now, you are running to be governor of a state that more immigrants call home than any other other. More than 11 million Californians are from someplace else. We've already seen the carnage that this administration is causing by unleashing immigration authorities on the streets of California and across America. So my question is this. How will your approach to immigration at the state level differ from Donald Trump's? And more importantly, why should California voters place their trust and the lives of their friends and neighbors in the hands of a Trump endorsed candidate like yourself?

[Kara Swisher]

Yourself.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

That's, that's a good question.

[Steve Hilton]

All right, Very good. I think Sarah's question is exactly, you know, I, I appreciate it. And, and it's actually how I feel. And I'm totally, I'm so proud to be an American. And, you know, I've renounced my UK citizenship. And I say all the time I'm the candidate of the legal immigrant community for the legal immigrant community, but we have to be able to draw a line between legal and illegal. I think that in terms of, let's just get straight to the kind of key part of this, which is immigration enforcement. The way I think about it is obviously you don't never want to see anything like we saw, like we have seen, you know, earlier in the year in Minnesota and more recently, and also don't want to see anything like we saw last summer in Los Angeles with the rioting prompted by immigration enforcement. And if you look at the anatomy of those things, certainly the California things, which I've studied in detail, spoken to law enforcement in great detail about it, I think my approach would be to actually have the kind of immigration enforcement that, to be honest, we saw in the Obama years, which is a sort of common sense cooperative relationship between state and local law enforcement and federal immigration

[Kara Swisher]

enforcement, which wasn't there. State law enforcement did not.

[Steve Hilton]

Right. So there's a sanctuary law in California, SB 54. It was passed in 2017. And a lot of people say, oh, that means that you can't cooperate with federal. That's not true. In fact, it was criticized at the time. Kevin De Leon, one of the authors, I believe was criticized by the left for making it too federal immigration enforcement friendly, as it were, that there's a whole set of things, specific offenses and conditions that allow for cooperation between state and local law enforcement and federal law enforcement in California. So actually you would just be following, never mind the precedent set by previous Democrat administrations, but California law. And that would be my attitude, to have calm, peaceful cooperation. So you don't need that kind of heavy handed enforcement. That would be my goal.

[Kara Swisher]

So how would you have handled the ICE raids as governor? Would you have sued the Trump administration like Newsom did when he tried?

[Steve Hilton]

They wouldn't have had, they wouldn't have happened because you would have had cooperation at the, at the local level to say, right, where you say, yes, you can work with them to find the people they're looking for and then they don't have to go into the community.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I think Stephen Miller has some other ideas. You know, you could hear all their rhetoric. They said the city was controlled by gangs. They made a narrative as if they had to come in, which wasn't. None of which is true. And you know, you just, I don't know if you saw that Elon interview with the Economist editor. She's like, it's nothing like what you're saying is happening here. What won't you do to help the Trump administration if they get what if they do what? And I know you don't like hypothetical.

[Steve Hilton]

I don't know. I don't think. No, I'm just curious. I'm thinking about what that looks like. I want to see how do you

[Kara Swisher]

get it to be peaceful when I would say probably Stephen Miller doesn't want. Peaceful is not his. I've not heard that out of his head.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, he's not running it directly. Tom Homan is running it directly.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I get that.

[Steve Hilton]

And I know Tom, and I think, I think they would to see this. I mean, I really don't, I don't think.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he doesn't. Kristi Noem kind of did, but yes, and so did the little tiny guy who looks like Chad Bianco. That whole genre of American.

[Steve Hilton]

Oh, I know who you mean. I don't, I don't think we'll get to that point. And if you look at the prioritization now in terms of immigration enforcement, generally speaking, it seems to me that they are very much focused. Focused on the part of this where there's wide consensus, which is criminals, you know, who've broken the law beyond just entering illegally.

[Kara Swisher]

Sure, but they've gone beyond that. Would you acknowledge they've gone.

[Steve Hilton]

They have in the past, yes, but I think they're dialing it back. That is my sense.

[Kara Swisher]

So you pointed out your own story as an example of doing it the right way. You and your wife moved to the US in 2012 for her job and she was a top executive Google at the time. But we've seen the Trump administration strip legal status from close to 2 million immigrants, many of whom arrived through legal pathways like yourself, some with temporary protected status. Others come under Biden era programs. You may not have liked those programs, but they were legal programs. What makes your immigrant like what my son was asking? Why is your immigration sort different from someone who's been stripped of their legal status or is threatened? I have so many friends, you know, this new PhD thing, they're thinking of stripping them for just four years. I have many friends on green cards that are. Came in here legally, very nervous. These are all people that come in the way you say they should come in. Correct. How should we treat these immigrants?

[Steve Hilton]

They sound like. I mean, I think the temporary thing is different because of the name temporary. I mean, I think it was legally established to be temporary. When the conditions of emergency are no longer present, then that's different. Student visas, I've green cards. I mean, I totally disagree with taking that away. I mean, you've got to, if you go through a process, you, you can't retroactively change the process. I think the temporary protector said. I think that is different because the, in the establishing law was added. I don't know the exact time limit, honestly, but I think it was supposed to be temporary.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but again, these are people who are here trying to actually, and a lot of them actually support, say the elderly here in this country and et cetera. There's going to be a lot of issues. Would you stand up for someone from El Salvador, for example, there's a big Salvadoran population in LA who came here legally, maybe on tps, some of them not. But now we'll have their legal status stripped. Did they do it the right way?

[Steve Hilton]

Well, I mean, you got to look at the individual case. I mean, the temporary, as I say, that is a federal program that is very specific and it's very limited. And I think that you can't then. Then, as it were, transfer it into a general legal immigration status. If the law that set that up, I don't know what the right term is, whether it's expired or the conditions that gave rise to it are no longer there, then I think there needs to be a process to get you onto another track. Maybe that's the right way of thinking about it.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. And for the dreamers.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, I think that's honestly unarguable.

[Kara Swisher]

He's going for the dreamers now.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, I disagree with that very strongly, and I don't know if that's true. I mean, wherever I haven't heard that, I haven't seen any evidence of that. I know that there may be.

[Kara Swisher]

You're looking at PhD candidates. Don't we want to keep those candidates here? Don't we want people come to this country to go to, say, a UC school? Don't we want them to stay?

[Steve Hilton]

If you're born here. Yeah. Or if you're brought across as a child. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I've always been strong. I've been very. I mean, I used to talk about that on my Fox show all the time.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm going to end with talking about Hollywood very quickly about what's going on, because there's so much going on. Hollywood has been bleeding jobs and gambling, California. It's especially true in the years since the pandemic and the strikes. The state is trying to lure those jobs back with more tax incentives. You want to make those incentives even bigger. But incentives can also be erased to the bottom, as you know. What can the state do more to lure those jobs back?

[Steve Hilton]

You've got to start with the tax incentives. That's the main reason that you've seen places like. Well, actually the uk. I mean, when I was in the UK government, my friend and colleague George Osborne was the Treasury Secretary. Chancellor called and he devised the UK tax incentive. That's been incredibly successful for the uk, but now you've got other places. You've got Hungary and other countries in Eastern Europe. Within the States, you've got New Mexico You've got Georgia's long standing now. New Jersey has a really strong incentive. So it's just highly competitive. And you can take a philosophical position and say, I don't like the kind of tax incentive, race to the bottom, et cetera. But on the other hand, my job is to not to pontificate on what I think about that, say, right, we got a crisis, we got to do something about it. What can you do? And I think my attitude to this is we have to have a kind of wake up moment where anyone who's making these decisions sees a real change, a big change, and notices, well, that's number one. And it's not just the size, it's what's included, as in the technical term, above the line spending. So it's the whole production, not limited to certain parts of else it's uncapped. That's really important. That means that what you have now is because there's a certain amount allocated that means that every time you try and get it, you have to kind of apply and go through a bureaucratic process and there's a lack of certainty. You don't know if you're going to get it. That puts people off. If it's uncapped, you know you're going to get it. It's automatic almost. But on top of that, you've got to make the process of production easier. The California Film Commission needs to be revamped. I've said I want to turn it into a kind of a concierge service where you just basically get all the help you need to navigate a state and local bureaucracies in terms of permits and all of that stuff, which is just a nightmare in California, just like everything else. And then the final piece of it is actually the same cost pressures that are driving other businesses out. It's just incredibly expensive to live in Los Angeles because housing is so expensive, energy costs are high and so on. So I think the general things that we do to bring to improve the business climate for everyone will also help. But I think the two big ones are the tax incentive and the bureaucracy.

[Kara Swisher]

So Calvern is leading also a group of states in a lawsuit to block Paramount's merger with Warner Brothers Discovery. You say the suit is pure politics, but many in the industry oppose the merger. And also the journey to get to the approval from the Department of Justice felt a little political too. So why is it in Hollywood and California's best interest for this merger to go through?

[Steve Hilton]

Well, I think one of the strongest reasons is that you've Got a real commitment to theatrical release, which is a lot of the industries really wants to see. And by the way, I do. I love going to the movies. I saw the Odyssey in the movie theater. You know, like, I love. Of course, I know, I understand. But you know what I'm saying, I enjoy the Pro. You know, it's an exciting thing. I love the fact that that's getting films like that and getting people back into movie theaters. So I think that they've made a strong commitment to that, to a specific number of releases per year that are going to be in the movie theaters. That. That's new. I think also you got to see it in the overall competitive landscape. I think they sort of. Rob Bonter, the California Attorney General, really can't defend this. I mean, I saw his interview on the Town. You know, when someone who really knows about the industry pressed him on these details, he basically fell apart. And when you really look into what he's been saying about all of this, the main driver seems to be able to consult concern about what would happen to cnn. Honestly, I think that is the main thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Except he never mentioned it. He didn't mention it.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah. But like it comes out in all the interviews and.

[Kara Swisher]

No, he just, you know, people. No, I'll be. I've been following this rather closely. He actually, they bring it up to him and that's a different thing. I think. Now the judge seems to be agreeing with Rob Bonta because he's won pretty. He got the tro, he was going to get the preliminary injunction, and now the trial's not till March. So someone agrees with him. The judge certainly agrees.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, Look, I mean, it's a process

[Kara Swisher]

and so do many in Hollywood, the Writers Guild, the Screen Actors Guild, and a lot of theater owners, too.

[Steve Hilton]

Look, I mean, fine. I mean, it's. To be honest, it's like some of these other things from a policy point of view, that's not where my focus is. I can give you opinion about it, but my. From, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you can't really do anything. The attorney general gets to do whatever he wants.

[Steve Hilton]

Yeah, yeah. And so what I'm focused on is all the other stuff we've been talking about where you. And actually, for example, I had a really good meeting with the unions about all of that. And that was part of my policy development process was to sit down with everyone. And so I got good relationships there. And I think that we've got to save this industry. That's really my overall view.

[Kara Swisher]

There's also, to be fair, a Little bit of anti tech ness to this because of the Ellisons and they're, you know, they did suck up to Trump in order to get this through, which you know, you kind of have to. We haven't talked a lot about housing, but you did mention keeping people in housing is one of the biggest problems. And homelessness is intractable. What is your signature policy to deal with this? Because many people have tried the big

[Steve Hilton]

sounds really not that new of an idea. It's enforced the law. And I think that the starting point of course is to acknowledge that most of the people, people in terms of street homelessness have some combination of severe mental health problems and addiction. And in a sense it doesn't matter whether they became homeless because of those things or they developed those things once they were homeless. So there's a definite. There's exactly stress. And also you're the target for criminal drug dealing, gangs. Right. You're just in an incredibly vulnerable situation. But in this, in a sense, like, like that part doesn't matter. You've got to help people where and you're never going to get people helped if they are on the streets living in those conditions.

[Kara Swisher]

So the first find homeless people, we put them in jail. What's enforcing the law mean for people who are at the end of enforcement?

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It's.

[Steve Hilton]

Well, it's illegal to live camp and live on the streets. It's against the law. It's always been against the law. And so I. You got to physically take people off the streets and put them somewhere where they can get better. Well, for example, there's a really interesting proposal from down near San Diego, a disused military base to use as a shelter. There's. So we have a million and a half empty properties by one estimate in California. So the idea that we can't provide shelter, I mean, look, the numbers, what is it, 188,000, something like that? It's large, but it's not impossible to imagine that we can do that. There's another really important aspect to this, which is the mental health component. We are way short of mental health beds and capacity in California. There's a really technocratic reason for this that is completely avoidable. Where the whole Medicare system was set up in the 60s, there was a rule put in place that states that there is no federal Medicaid reimbursement for any mental health care delivered in a facility with more than 16 beds. It's very specific. It's a 16 bedroom bed limit. Now that inevitably means that the money doesn't go very far. Because it's not. Imagine if hospitals couldn't be more than 16 beds. It'd be crazy. That's what happened with mental health. And so the first Trump administration created a waiver. States can exempt themselves from this. That's a very practical thing. We haven't done that in California. A practical way of getting more money into the system. I don't think it really is intractable. I think you just need a sort of practical approach where you work through these problems.

[Kara Swisher]

So, last question. You're saying will a lot when I am governor. And you've argued that California's problems are the result of political choices and voters want change. But if voters choose to stick with Democratic leadership and you are behind, will you stay in California to help and do that, or decamp to Texas or Florida like other wealthy Republicans?

[Steve Hilton]

No, no, no. I love California. I wouldn't want to live anywhere. No, I love California. Completely love it. I'm in love with it still. I get really excited driving around, as I do, and just seeing all these incredible things that we have. The beauty of this, everything. It's just amazing. And it's not just the physical beauty and the weather and all these things and the innovation. There's a sort of spirit. I call it the rebel spirit. That's why we've created these amazing industries. And that's kind of rebelliousness. That is very much. I don't know, I feel in tune with. I couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. That, you know, they hate us because they ain't us. That's why.

[Steve Hilton]

Exactly.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, Steve, thank you so much. I really appreciate it that you coming on, and I hope I. I don't think it was too hard to. I want to. I want to illuminate voters rather than just getting fights.

[Steve Hilton]

No, no, I appreciate. It was real. It was real. It was a good conversation. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

Today's show was produced by Nishat Kurwa, Michelle Aloy, Katherine Milsop, Madeline La Plant Duvey, Megan Birney and Kalyn Lynch. Special thanks to Eamon Whelan, Dave Shaw, Lissa Sop and Julia Sharpe Levine. This episode was engineered by Aaliyah Jackson Perez, and our theme music is by Trackademics. If you're already following the show, you're living the California dream. If not, you're paying $6 for gas. Go wherever you listen to podcasts, search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Thanks for listening to on with Karen Swisher from Podium Media, New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network, and US we'll be back on Thursday with more.

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