The Oral History of "Madchester" - Part 1

Summary

Ongoing History of New Music: The Oral History of "Madchester" - Part 1

Episode Release Date: August 6, 2025
Host: Alan Cross
Guest: Gaz Whelan, Former Drummer of Happy Mondays

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Introduction to Madchester

In this compelling first part of the oral history series on Madchester, host Alan Cross delves deep into the vibrant and transformative music scene of late 1980s and early 1990s Manchester, England. Featuring firsthand insights from Gaz Whelan, the former drummer of the iconic band Happy Mondays, the episode promises an authentic recounting of the era that reshaped British music.

The Transformation of Manchester

Alan Cross sets the stage by highlighting Manchester's evolution from a "dark, dismal, decrepit industrial city" to a burgeoning hub of musical innovation. This metamorphosis was not merely about the emergence of bands but also about the convergence of demographics, economics, politics, and social issues that created the perfect environment for a unique music scene to flourish.

Alan Cross [00:16]: "Demographics, economics, politics, social issues, they all collide just right and in a completely unforeseen, unsuspected, fractalish sort of way to create something very, very special."

Despite being ranked by a travel writer as one of the "12 worst cities to visit in the entire world," Manchester's musical landscape told a different story, one that would eventually garner international acclaim.

Manchester vs. Liverpool: A Musical Rivalry

The discussion shifts to the musical dynamics between Manchester and Liverpool. While Liverpool had its moment with bands like The Beatles, Manchester carved its own niche with a diverse array of artists.

Gaz Whelan [04:21]: "Liverpool had all the best bands in. It was Echoing the Bunnymen, Teardrop Explodes, Mighty White. It was all Liverpool."

This rivalry underscored the distinct sounds and cultural influences that both cities contributed to the British music scene. While Liverpool bands leaned heavily into melody and the legacy of The Beatles, Manchester bands incorporated elements of soul, punk, and emerging dance music trends.

The Birth of the Madchester Scene

Madchester, a portmanteau of "Manchester" and "madness," encapsulates the eclectic and energetic music movement that swept through the city in the late '80s and early '90s. Gaz Whelan recounts the early days of the scene, emphasizing the role of influential clubs like the Hacienda in fostering a new wave of music and dance culture.

Gaz Whelan [06:07]: "We used to go down to Heaven on a Wednesday night and they would play it and then Manchester was playing it first."

The fusion of house music, hip-hop, and soul with traditional rock elements laid the foundation for what would become the signature sound of Madchester.

Ecstasy and the Cultural Shift

A pivotal element of the Madchester scene was the widespread use of ecstasy, which not only influenced the music but also the culture surrounding it. The introduction of the drug is attributed to figures like Bez, whose rebellious nature and anti-establishment stance made him a central character in the scene's narrative.

Alan Cross [09:18]: "But it all came in that, that one summer, didn't it? It was just all of a sudden ecstasy was there. Everybody was dropping E."

The prevalence of ecstasy transformed warehouse parties into euphoric gatherings, enhancing the communal and ecstatic atmosphere that defined Madchester.

The Influence of Northern Soul and Black Music

Northern Soul played a significant role in shaping Manchester's musical identity. Gaz explains how the city’s connection to black music and soul was integral to its unique sound.

Gaz Whelan [13:04]: "Black music is so much really important in Manchester. And I don't know why Liverpool, most Liverpool, you gotta lump together because that's where the docks, where the first music came in the '50s from America, the docks were there."

This deep-rooted appreciation for soul and black music infused Manchester bands with a distinct groove and rhythm, setting them apart from their contemporaries.

Rise of the Happy Mondays

The Happy Mondays emerged as a cornerstone of the Madchester scene, blending rock with dance rhythms and eclectic influences. Gaz Whelan provides an insider’s perspective on the band’s formation, struggles, and eventual rise to fame.

Gaz Whelan [17:10]: "We formed '82 when I was still... I was still at school. I was still really young."

The band's resistance to conventional image demands from major record labels underscored their commitment to authenticity, which resonated with fans and contributed to their lasting legacy.

Alan Cross [18:07]: "What makes it really big was when bands like us started doing... it was all about fashion, it's about the city you're from, it's about the football team you support. It's all kind of... It's a real working class. It's a culture thing."

The Role of the Press and Media

The media played a crucial role in amplifying the Madchester movement. Satellite coverage, particularly through shows like "Top of the Pops," catapulted bands like the Happy Mondays and the Stone Roses into national prominence.

Gaz Whelan [23:06]: "We got on Top of the Pops... that's when it was born in November '89."

This exposure not only validated the bands but also unified the scene, making Manchester synonymous with this new wave of music innovation.

Conclusion and Teaser for Part 2

As the episode draws to a close, ongoing discussions hint at the impending challenges and eventual decline of the Madchester scene. Alan Cross teases that the next installment will explore the factors that led to the downfall of what was once a thriving musical epicenter.

Alan Cross [32:53]: "So let's go to '89, '90... how did Manchester go from being this DJ oriented, ecstasy oriented sort of scene to blossoming with... how did the bands come back into the..."

Listeners are left anticipating the continuation of this rich narrative, eager to uncover more behind-the-scenes stories and the intricate dynamics that shaped the Madchester legacy.

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Notable Quotes

• Mark Twain on Manchester:

  "I would like to live In Manchester, the transition between life and death would be unnoticeable."
  (Unknown Speaker [02:24])

• Anthony Burgess:

  "London always was and always will be a day behind Manchester in the arts and in common commercial cunning."
  (Unknown Speaker [02:24])

• Gaz Whelan on Music Influence:

  "Black music is so much really important in Manchester."
  (Gaz Whelan [13:04])

• Happy Mondays on Authenticity:

  "We didn't try to be anyone because we couldn't be. We weren't good enough."
  (Gaz Whelan [12:29])

• Bez's Role in the Scene:

  "Bez was always a bit of a loose cannon, you know, his dad was a cop, you know, and he was always rebelled."
  (Gaz Whelan [08:24])

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Looking Ahead

Part 1 of this oral history provides a foundational understanding of the Madchester scene, exploring its cultural roots, musical innovations, and the key figures who propelled it to fame. Part 2 is expected to delve deeper into the internal and external factors that eventually led to the scene's decline, offering a comprehensive view of this pivotal era in music history.

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For listeners seeking an in-depth exploration of one of the most influential music movements, this episode serves as an essential guide, enriched by the personal narratives and expert insights of Gaz Whelan.

Transcript

[Alan Cross]

Hey, it's Alan and I just wanted to let you know that you can now listen to the ongoing history of new music, early and ad free on Amazon, music included with Prime. You say you'll never join the Navy, never climb Mount Fuji on a port.

[Gaz Whelan]

Visit, or break the sound barrier.

[Alan Cross]

Joining the Navy sounds crazy. Saying never actually is. Learn [e-mail], america's Navy forged by the sea Support for this podcast and the following message comes from America's Navy. The Navy offers new graduates hands on training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine, plus education and sign on bonuses. Parents help your grads start their career [e-mail] every once in a while, things come together for a city's music scene. Demographics, economics, politics, social issues, they all collide just right and in a completely unforeseen, unsuspected, fractalish sort of way to create something very, very special. And then there's the final component, getting people on the outside to pay attention and recognize that yes, something really cool is happening in a particular city. Then the outsiders, the non belongers start evangelizing. Over the decades, this bit of rock and roll fairy dust has descended upon Cleveland, Memphis, New York, London, Toronto, Montreal, Austin, Seattle, and a few other lucky places. This time though, I want to talk about Manchester, a formerly dark, dismal, decrepit industrial city that one travel writer picked as one of the 12 worst cities to visit in the entire world. Musically, though, well, that's kind of a different story. And this story has been told many times in books and films about Manchester, bands like Joy Division and the Smiths and Oasis, along with feature movies like 24 Hour Party People. But this is gonna be different. I have with me someone who was there, someone who was right in the middle of it all, all the craziness of the Madchester era of the late 80s and early 90s. What you're about to hear is what really happened from someone who frankly made it all happen. This is an oral history of Madchester Part 1. This is the ongoing history of new music podcast with Alan Cross. This is Gaz Whelan. He's the former drummer with Man. Happy Mondays.

[Unknown Speaker]

Manchester's a difficult place to explain. It's. It's the second city in England, without doubt, and it's a city that's. I know this is really. But can I give you a couple of quotes I've just read, a couple of quotes I picked up that are great and it's Mark Twain wrote, which is my favorite. I would like to live In Manchester, the transition between life and death would be unnoticeable. And then there was Anthony Burgess, who wrote Clockwork Orange. London always was and always will be a day behind Manchester in the arts and in common commercial cunning. And then. And it's like J.B. peter. What? What England thinks, what Manchester thinks today, England thinks tomorrow. You know, it's kind of a. Even though it's not London, it's always at the front, especially with arts and cultural ideas.

[Gaz Whelan]

Have you seen her? Have you heard that? I know. Wise to describe the way I feel. How could it ever come?

[Alan Cross]

T.R. stone Roses from their brilliant debut record from 1989. That's. She Bangs THE DRUMS One of the great songs of the so called Madchester era in Manchester, England in the late 80s and early 90s. Hello again, I'm Alan Cross. And although the whole Madchester thing happened more than 20 years ago, we're still feeling the aftershocks. No Manchester, no Brit pop. That means no Blur or Oasis, no Brit pop, no current bands like Coldplay or Kaiser Chiefs or Franz Ferdinand or Arctic Monkeys. And this is why it's still worth looking back on this time in British musical history. And rather than have me explain what went on, I have with me Gaz Whelan, the former drummer for the Happy Mondays. Along with the Stone Roses and the Inspiral Carpets, the Mondays formed the trinity of Manchester bands. And Gaz was there. And man the stories. For many, many years, Manchester was this industrial city in decline. But then the middle 70s come along and, you know, the Buzzcocks show up and the Sex Pistols play the Lesser Free Trade hall, that famous show.

[Unknown Speaker]

Bob Dylan, one of them. Got your Pistols on you. Everyone was there.

[Alan Cross]

You weren't there.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, I wasn't. No. I was in Nappies. I wasn't in diapers. I wasn't there, no.

[Alan Cross]

Seems that there were 49 people there.

[Unknown Speaker]

Everyone said they were there.

[Alan Cross]

But then Tony Wilson founds Factory Records and then we get Joy Division and everything that comes after that. Then I guess we move into the early 80s and the Smiths established themselves. But then that was it for a while in Manchester, wasn't it? Until Liverpool.

[Unknown Speaker]

Liverpool had all the best bands in. It was Echoing the Bunnymen, Teardrop Explodes, Mighty White. It was all Liverpool. So we used to go. And a lot of Joy Division, Joy Division, they used to play over in Liverpool quite a lot. Liverpool Erics was the venue. But all the Liverpool bands were kind of storming the charts and they were like the main bands.

[Alan Cross]

And everybody thought that it was the second Coming of the Beatles.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, yeah, that's kind of Liverpool. Liverpool's always like that. Bands are always kind of second coming of Liverpool. I mean they're coming. One of my favourite bands and you as long as the Beatles. So kind of Liverpool's got that. They've kind of cornered that sound.

[Alan Cross]

So what happened towards the end of the 80s when we began to see bands? I guess it was 808 state. There was the Stone Roses and everything that came before them. Spiral Carpets and then you guys, the Happy Mondays.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, it was. Kind of first started about 87 with the. They had a 10th summer kind of Celebration Factory. And it was kind of the third. The car from the car. The second summer of love. So it lasted for three summers. 87, 88, 89. And it started. Manchester's always been musically the heritage. Like we're from Northern Soul, you know. I think Richard Branson said Mancunian kids always have the best record collections. I don't know how he knows. He'd never signed the Manchester band in his life, but. Point taken. And they've always had these kind of like Northern souls. You're probably not familiar Northern Soul. But it's like this massive movement in the seventies of soul artists. Motown and Stacks Records that never made it. And kids in. In Manchester and so on in Towns and Blackpool and Wigan and such bought these records and made them huge stars. There's a massive movement. Huge. This is just. What's that film called? It's just a movie. Just come up. Soul By Movies. Just called Soul By. It's kind of. Which is about that. So there's always been these movies in Manchester. And then 87 this summer of love happened and then.

[Alan Cross]

And that was. That was a rave and dance thing.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right. Well, Detroit. Detroit and Chicago music up kind of started going. Went over to the uk, started the house music, started playing in the uk. They went to London. There's a place in London, a gay club called Heaven we used to go down to on a Wednesday night and they would play it and then Manchester was playing it first. And then they kind of. The DJs came over from Detroit, Frankie Knuckles and such. And they played London. It was empty. They played and they went to Manchester. They didn't want to go to Manchester. They wanted to go straight home. But they said they were told the flight was for Manchester, they had to go. And they got there and there were lines around the block, queueing around the block. It was packed and it became massive. And that's when he was playing lots of hip hop. And dance and soul and then acid house music. Well, it wasn't acid house then house music and it was packed and we was all listening to it. And then ecstasy came along and completely changed everything. And that was. I mean, you know, it was so important.

[Alan Cross]

Before we go any further, let me play you an example of the kind of music that Gaz is talking about. This was a huge northern soul hit in the middle 1960s. The singer is Gloria Jones, but I think you probably know a different version of the song.

[Gaz Whelan]

Sometimes I feel I've got to run away I've got to get away from the pain you drive into the heart of me the love we share.

[Alan Cross]

Gloria Jones with the kind of mid-60s soul music that found a home in places like Manchester and Liverpool. But there was also another ingredient in the whole Manchester thing. 3, 4 methylenedioxy metamphetamine, MDMA for short. Or more commonly, Ecstasy. Let's get back to Gaz and the story of a guy named Bez. Legend has it, at least on this side of the Atlantic, that Bez was the guy that introduced ecstasy into your scene.

[Unknown Speaker]

No, not really. The only place you could get it then was I sending this off a gay night called nude night or a beef night. And the gay nights was. Was where it was all about. So all the gayest was where ecstasy was around. It wasn't, you know, so that's when you could get. So. But we have the gay village in Manchester. People used to go there because it was safer. So the gay nights weren't just gay. It was probably 80 gay, 20 people just going to pie because it was the hacienda. And so that's where. That's where it all started. And then, you know, to say that Bez introduced Not. Not really. Bez has always been a. You know, he was a couple years above me at school and he was always been a bit of a loose cannon, you know, his dad was a cop, you know, and he was always rebelled. He's always been, you know, he's always been anti establishment. But as for introducing us that. No, no, he kind of introduced himself to everything. Oh, but you know. No, no, not really. No, it was. No, no, not really everyone. He was just everywhere, you know.

[Alan Cross]

But it all came in that, that one, that one summer, didn't it? It was just all of a sudden ecstasy was there. Everybody was dropping E. Well, as soon.

[Unknown Speaker]

As all the kind of straight kids started buying it. Thirty quid at the time, around $50 at the time, which was expensive, you know, it was. That was the Place to go. So the gay nights, he moved to night, which moved. So the student night ended because everyone was going in just to get excessive in the gay nights. And it kind of overflowed and it just built up. So every night became this. This like straight gay night with lots of ecstasy. And then it kind of just spread.

[Alan Cross]

There's also another story about a particular place in the hacienda, under the stairway.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Alan Cross]

Where you lot used to hang out.

[Unknown Speaker]

The corner. Used to call it the corner. Yeah, the mad corner. Yeah. Yeah. When I met my wife. Yeah. When I met Vanessa there. So still. Still together now. And that's. That's. That's sexisty for you.

[Alan Cross]

So. And that was where you would entertain your friends?

[Unknown Speaker]

No, everyone, it was just the Matt. The old club was like. It was like something out of. You know, you see that. What's the Clint Eastwood film with the pigeon? Torrid Jones Peel. That club is it. What's the movie? It's a bit where he's chasing some hippie through this club and it's like the Pigeon Toad Orange Peer with. And that's exactly what it was like. Can't remember which. Which film it is. Anyway, it was just madness. It was just everywhere. It wasn't. No, it wasn't the kind. The stage and the ascend. It was like. It was like a. It was. It was kind of set back in the wall. So it's like. Like a picture frame. And then that was. The stage was full of kids and every. Just full of people. It was just full. Everyone completely. You know, it was like Sodom and gomorrah. Well, that's great.

[Alan Cross]

87, 88, 89. The DJ became the star.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, yeah, the DJs became. Well, exorcist became the star, really. The DJs kind of did, but he was. And it was all of a sudden, kids that. People that weren't really into drugs or partying, suddenly it was just everywhere. Everyone was, you know, everyone. I mean, alcohol was always my poison. But this came along and it just completely changed me.

[Alan Cross]

So how did Manchester go from being this DJ oriented, ecstasy oriented sort of scene to blossoming with, you know, the holy trinity of Manchester bands, You guys, the Stone Roses and Spiral Carpets. I mean, how did. How did. Where did the bands come back into the.

[Unknown Speaker]

Because we were already in bands and that's what we played. So we'd listen to dance music, but we wouldn't play dance music. So obviously it filtered into what we were doing, but we didn't play. We never thought Manchester is Kind of one of them cities that if you try to do something that you're not, you'll get shot down straight away. So if you're in a band and then you start taking ecstasy and listening to dance music and then your band suddenly starts making dance music, you'd get. We'd get kicked out of the city. So we carried on doing what we was doing. It just kind of filtered through. It was bizarre because he kind of listened to one type of music but played another. And the song Roses were kind of. We didn't really see them. They were. They were kind of came a couple of years later. They were on the. They were a different kind of scene. They were doing their own thing.

[Alan Cross]

Well, they were the more psychedelic, 60s oriented.

[Unknown Speaker]

They were really into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alan Cross]

And same thing, I guess, with the carpets.

[Unknown Speaker]

They.

[Alan Cross]

They had the Farfisa organ and they had more of a 60s vibe. But the Mondays were completely and entirely unique. I remember hearing, you know, something from the first album for the first time, maybe it was maybe even 24 hour party people and thinking, you guys didn't sound like anything.

[Unknown Speaker]

I know. And that was just because we were crap. You know, we were in this. It's like, you know, we listen to all sorts. It's like when I'm off and we listen to everything we listen to, you know, it was like we. We'd listen to Johnny Cash. And so was it be Johnny Cash, it'd be Sly and the Family Stone, it'd be Sex Pistols, it'd be, you know, Graham Parsons, it'd be the Band, it'd be Willie Nelson, it'd be, you know, Stones, Beatles, you know, everything. We just listened to everything. We didn't try to be anyone because we couldn't be. We weren't good enough.

[Alan Cross]

This, this explains why there's such a good groove with a lot of Manchester bands because you were listening to the dance music.

[Unknown Speaker]

So black music is so much really important in Manchester. And I don't. And I don't know why Liverpool, most Liverpool, you gotta lump together because that's where the docks, where the first music came in the 50s from America, the docks were there. Manchester's an inland port and they got the music first. So them two cities have always been kind of always been the best two cities for music, without a doubt. Liverpool bands totally go for the melody. The Beatles thing where Manchester music every. Even bands to punk bands like listen to some Buzzcock stuff. They've got, you know, groove. They've got soul music and soul music Black music has been really important in Manchester and I don't, I don't know why he has it in Liverpool.

[Alan Cross]

Well, there was a, a lot of soul in the groove of, of of.

[Unknown Speaker]

The Mondays in all manster music in now even it's funny, I was reading something recently about one of the first reviews, Oasis, and it was saying what was Even though they were. They were professional Mancunians, as they call them, stereotypical Mancunians, they had the one thing that was different, that they didn't have any soul. You know, they had no soul music, black music influence in them, which was unusual for Manchester bands.

[Alan Cross]

That's Gaz Wieland, the former drummer for the Happy Mondays, talking about what it was like in the early days of the whole Madchester scene. We'll get him back here in a second with more insider stories as we push on with this oral history of Madchester. This program is sponsored by BetterHelp. When it comes to offering advice, everyone seems to have an opinion on everything. Need a better start to the day? Dunk your face in a bowl of ice cubes at 4am Eat this, don't eat that. Walk more. Start a journal. Digital detoxes.

[Gaz Whelan]

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[Alan Cross]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Alan Cross]

This is part one of an oral history of Manchester, that scene in the late 80s and early 90s in Manchester, England, that still has a lot to answer for. Telling the stories is Gaz Whelan, a guy who was there as the drummer for the Happy Mondays. Let's talk about them for a bit, shall we? So Mondays formed when 80.

[Unknown Speaker]

We formed 82 when I was still. Oh, I was still at school. I was still really young.

[Alan Cross]

Nothing really happened for years, did it?

[Unknown Speaker]

What was really funny about. No, because difference between the UK and North America with bands is in the UK you form a band, then learn your instruments. Where in North America you learn your instruments and you form a band? That. I mean, I don't know, that's generalizing, but, you know, so we. We were just learning our instruments and learning what, you know, what we were doing. But I think probably about 85, 80, 45 major record labels started coming up. We sent cassettes off. That's how long ago it was. And they came up and they were like, what's your image? And we was like, well, this is how we dress. And it's like, well, what, you're wearing trainers. And, you know, we're getting images like, you know, we're not wearing. You know, this is how we wanted to. And we wouldn't. We wouldn't budge. Was like, no chance. This is what we're doing. When Tony Wilson saw us, it's like, I love it. You've got no image. That's your image, you know.

[Alan Cross]

Well, between that and. And Sean's lyrics.

[Unknown Speaker]

But it's not unusual in Manchester because they're kind of, you know, you listen to Mark E. Smith in the fall, or you listen to John Cooper Clark and you know they're very kind of, you know, cerebral. Yeah. What do they call it? What was the ones that reviews was great was a hot knife street lyrics or something like kind of thing, you know. So they weren't unusual though they were great, you know Stuck a piece of crap in a butcher's hat was one of my favorites. So it was just. And I think when we went on Factory there was a lot of. By the long coat brigade on Thatcher it was like, you know, not them, you know, they don't like football hooligans. They dress like football hooligans. They're not, you know, they don't fit in with us but at the same time we'd go play around the country and these. And Thatcher had a great cult following. They'd come and watch us just out of interest, you know.

[Alan Cross]

Well, that whole image with the trainers in regular shirts that becomes the foundation for lad culture that comes along 10 years later.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, but we've been doing it for years, haven't we? Started in the 80s. He started in Liverpool and on a Manchester and it'd be going for years and it starts to kind of way whenever we used to turn up for gigs there was no bands that looked like that. We'd turn up for gigs in London and around the country and people you could see the in house signing like what are the bands? What are you dressed like? We'd play a lot with creation bands and rough trade bands and they'd be all looking at us like what's going on? What are these dressed like? What's, what's. What's going on?

[Alan Cross]

So where did the baggy pants and the haircuts come from?

[Unknown Speaker]

I don't know. Where the ecstasy probably. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Free. What have we got Free? Yeah, but we used to go with Phil Sachs at a shop who became our manager and he was the original Northern Soul DJ and he was selling them and we just. And they were these cheap kind of trousers and cards that were flared and we just kind of. I don't. I don't know. I really don't know. That just happened.

[Alan Cross]

It just did.

[Gaz Whelan]

24 hour party people Plastic Face can smile.

[Alan Cross]

The Happy Mondays and 24 Hour Party People from their 1987 debut record Squirrel & G Man 24 Hour Party People Plastic Face can't smile Whiteout how was Madchester coined?

[Unknown Speaker]

Where did that was coined by two lads from Newcastle two Geordies who used to do our videos and it was just supposed to be for an ep Just for a bit of fun. It was funny. We was in the studio doing the ep, the Manchester Avon ep. And it was playing the Press, a couple of tracks. One Saturday morning, me and Paul Ryder and we would. And we had a couple of tracks. We didn't have a title for him. And the guy was saying, well, what's it called? And we said, oh, it's just about when we used to go to all these all night warehouse parties. And he said, what's it called? And we was looking through and we couldn't find anything. And Paul saw the Buddy Ollie album, picked a Buddy Ollie album up and went, oh, it's called Rave On Just for a bit of fun. And then the next day the press, it was like, oh, this song about all night parties that they call raves. And all of a sudden they were called raves. And it comes from Buddy.

[Alan Cross]

Come on. Really? Yes, yes.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, that's seriously. It comes from Buddy Ollie. Yeah, it's really bizarre because somebody. Ollie, it's just. He was just on the spot, kind of made up about. And then they started calling all night warehouse parties.

[Alan Cross]

How much did the press play this up?

[Unknown Speaker]

Oh, massively, massively.

[Alan Cross]

Because they were. As the press out of London was looking for the next big thing.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, we were big in London before we were big in Manchester. We couldn't get Airplane Manchester. We couldn't get. All the reviews were like. The reviews were. They didn't understand us. They didn't get what was going. And same with the Roses as well. And we were filling out smaller venues in London way before Manchester.

[Alan Cross]

Really?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, way before. That's a great irony. Probably a good year before.

[Alan Cross]

See, this is what we find so fascinating about UK culture here in North America is that everything is so close together. The press takes such an active role in building bands up, building scenes up, building songs up and tearing them down.

[Unknown Speaker]

At the same time.

[Alan Cross]

And things happen so quickly.

[Unknown Speaker]

The other thing there, it's not about. It's not about a band, it's just not about a band. The music's about fashion, it's about the city you're from, it's about the football team you support. It's all kind of. It's all the culture. It's a class thing. So it's a real working class. It's a culture thing. And it kind of. It's like. I think what made it really big was when bands like us started doing. We used to go to our. After the sn, would go to these warehouse parties that were being put on by lads who were selling tickets at football matches and, you know, and. And they started putting all like, warehouse parties on instead of the students. And then they said, well, instead of doing that, why don't you play live? And we'll do it and we'll sell 10,000, we'll go to the big venue and then we'll say, gmax has owes 10,000. We were like, oh, we can't sell 10,000. We've only just sold the Asiana out. It's only 1500. Oh, we'll do it. And they did, you know.

[Alan Cross]

So let's go to 89, 90. We've got. The Roses have their first album out, the Spike island gig, which attracts 30,000 people to this horrible plot of land.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah.

[Alan Cross]

Then I guess the London press discovers what's happening there and they start to champion bands like you. And I guess it was you, the Roses and the Carpets.

[Unknown Speaker]

Initially it was just really us and the Roses, to be honest with you.

[Alan Cross]

Really?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, really it was. And it all started at the end of 89. When we got on Top of the Pops was. I mean, you'll probably be familiar Top of the Pops and most. Most people won't. And if you was on Top of the Pops, you'd made it. That was the thing. As a kid, you wanted to be on your. You saw Top of the Pops and by pure fluke to indie independent bands in them days didn't really make the charts. Very few cannibals, not many. And us and the Roses happened to hit the charts at the same time. Just because of this live. Sorry, this live following. And we're both on the same show and just because of that. And they screened it in all the pubs in Manchester and it was like maybe come a big night. And that was it, that day after that, that's when he was born in November 89 or whatever it was. Yeah, that Top of the Pops appearance.

[Alan Cross]

It was November 23rd, 1989, to be exact. The Happy Mondays with Hallelujah, the single they performed on Top of the Pops on November 23, 1989. Like Gaz said, the other band on the show was also from Manchester, the Stone Roses. And they performed Fool's Gold. And that week that song went to number eight on the national singles charts, the highest charting indie song in ages. Manchester had arrived. The Stone Roses and Fool's Gold back with more from Gas Wheel. And in just a sec, as we continue with part one of our oral history of Manchester.

[Unknown Speaker]

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In the 70s, four young women were found dead. For nearly 50 years, their cases went cold. I'm Nancy Hickst, a senior crime reporter for Global News. In the season finale of Crime Beat, I share how investigators uncovered shocking evidence of a serial killer and hear exclusive interviews with the killer's family. Listen to the full season of Crime Beat early and ad free on Amazon Music by asking Alexa to play the podcast Crime Beat.

[Alan Cross]

This is part one of an oral history of Manchester. And with me is Gaz Whalen, the former drummer of the Happy Mondays and a guy who pretty much saw it all. The Mondays really broke through with their third album, Pills and Thrills and Bellyaches. It was November 27, 1990.

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah, we did that in LA and we was away for, we'd come to the States, come to North America, toured for two months and then we spent two months there and it was, it was madness. It was great.

[Alan Cross]

Where in both places in la when.

[Unknown Speaker]

We did the album. Yeah, we did it. Capital. The, the studio did Pet Sounds and I found out later I didn't know the sounds. I didn't know at the time, but it was, it was great. The first day we started in the studio because Best came along anyway because he was just for the vibes, just because he was Best. And we're driving down there, we're getting, we stayed up, I can't remember. We stayed a couple of miles away from the studio up in the hills and we're getting driven there and we see this, this, this fight on, on the, on the, on the highway and two cars and someone's out of a car and fighting. There's something. Get to the studio and we're in there about an hour and Bez comes in. Quick, quick, hide behind the car. The police are Chasing me. And he had a crash with someone, got out and he started punching this car. And he was in between. He was up there across the hood of the car, and they were fighting. The police got there and he jumped in the car and drove off. It was the first day.

[Alan Cross]

Let's just clarify Bez's role on the Mondays. What did he do?

[Unknown Speaker]

What was his job? You know what? He was a Tate. I don't know. He was just. But he was live. He was. We really needed him, you know, he was. He kind of brought. See, I'm lost for words. Bez was a couple years above me at school, and he was. He was crazy then. He always has been. Still is. I mean, I don't. He's in his mid-40s now, and he acts like. He acts like he's still 19.

[Alan Cross]

Well, he got the crap beat out of him recently, didn't he?

[Unknown Speaker]

Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know what. I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on with him at the moment. You know what? I think I've not seen him for about a year or so. I don't know what's going on. But I hope he's okay because, you know, he's got a good heartbez. He really has. He really has got a good heart, but he just gets himself into trouble. But yes, he's got a good soul, Bez. He really has.

[Alan Cross]

So he was your dancer? He was your vibe meister. He was your pet?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, Sean was insecure, so he needed a crook, you know, on stage. You know, before that, we used to get lots. We had a lot. He wasn't the first. We got lots of our friends come up. Just come up and dance on stage or, you know, and do that. And we had quite a few people doing it.

[Alan Cross]

What do you mean, Sean was insecure?

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, there's a singer. They're all the same, aren't they? All insecure, aren't they? I'm insecure, my singer, you know, nobody loves me, you know, I'll write the lyrics, you know. You know, you know what they like. And. But he was. And he. Because he wasn't a, you know, what you'd call a textbook singer, you know, and he never claimed to be, so he was insecure. So we used to have lots of friends up on stage, and we was all insecure. We all, like. We all thought we was kind of blagging it, we could play, but we weren't, you know, so we thought we was Blagging it, really.

[Alan Cross]

Because I remember seeing you guys a bunch of times in the early. In the early 90s. And even though, I mean, you had been on the road for a while and maybe Sean was taking his medicine at, you know, the wrong time of the evening. I mean, it all sounded pretty good to me.

[Unknown Speaker]

Well, he was. Well, he's kind of. He's having it into the dark side of the drug thing. Came a lot later than he says it did. You know, he was a lot older. He was more. Towards the end, he wasn't, you know. Yeah, we all know we were fine, but we were kind of. At that time, when we started, it was. All the bands were like art school proper, you know, and we just kind of just were along for the ride.

[Alan Cross]

Okay, here's more from the Mondays. And now that we know the story of Bez and his problems with the police, the first 23 seconds of the song makes more sense than it ever did.

[Gaz Whelan]

Call the Cops.

[Alan Cross]

The Happy Mondays with Step On, a song that reached number five on the national British singles charts, a huge accomplishment for an indie band. By the end of 1990, the whole Manchester thing was in full effect. The Mondays, the Roses, the Inspiral Carpets and others. So quickly we have other bands like, I guess, Mock Turtles, the High, A whole bunch of other bands that are just lumped under the whole Manchester banner. If they have that. If they have a little bit of soul in their groove and they drop that snare drum like the Blur does in there's no Other Way, automatically. Oh, my God. It's a Manchester.

[Unknown Speaker]

Great tune out, though. That Blur song, I never knew that was them. I actually thought it was a band for Manchester. I actually thought it was a Mock Turtles. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah. But, yeah, it's a good tune. But when you actually. When you listen to that, it still sounds like Blur, doesn't it? It sounds very blurry. Even though that starts to be really bizarre. Even though it sounds very Manchester, it sounds a very blur. But we weren't aware of the kind of. Don't forget, at the time we were away all the time. So we were kind of. One, were the eye of the storm and two, we were away all the time. So when all this was happening in England and in Manchester, we were. We weren't there.

[Alan Cross]

Thanks to all the press coverage being lavished on what was going on in Manchester, that sound and that influence spread across the country. The Farm were actually from Liverpool, but they got lumped in with Manchester. Flowered up was from Camden town in London, but they were called Manchester. And like I was just saying, with Gaz Blur, a band from Colchester originally were thrown on the pile. And if you listen to this song, you can understand why.

[Gaz Whelan]

There's no other way. There's no other way. All that you can do is watch them.

[Alan Cross]

There was a time in the very early 90s when it seemed that every day brought a great new song from a great new band from Manchester. Okay, so not all the bands were actually from Manchester, but we didn't care. The party was great and it looked like it would never end. Well, it did, of course. It always does. And on the second half of this look back at Manchester, we'll take a look at where it all went wrong. Gaz Whelan of the Happy Mondays has a lot more insider stories to tell. Part two of an oral history. Next time, technical productions by Rob Johnston. I'm Alan Cross.

[Unknown Speaker]

They come from Survivor. They come from big brother. They know what they're doing.

[Alan Cross]

These vets wrote the playbook and they have all had to earn their stripes. How did you win Survivor?

[Unknown Speaker]

Manipulating people.

Same thing I'm gonna do here.

[Alan Cross]

And now.

[Unknown Speaker]

New threats will at the through the.

[Alan Cross]

Game hungry to forge a new legacy. Once we train them, it's going to be hard to contain.

[Unknown Speaker]

This really, truly is the most even.

Matchup that I've seen in a long time.

[Alan Cross]

The challenge vets and new threats all new Wednesday on slice and stream on stack tv.