B (4:27)

Yeah. That's interesting is I think a lot of us with adhd, and I will throw myself into this category where some of us do maybe chase a little bit of novelty. Maybe we've, if we're, if we have the entrepreneurial mind, we've chased a few business ideas.

C (4:48)

Maybe. Maybe just a few. Just a few.

B (4:50)

Yeah. And maybe they did work. And then you're like, all right, cool. Been there, done that. I'm getting bored. I'm gonna go do something else. Yeah. But I think a lot of us also, just career wise, where we decide not to embark on, you know, owning a business or building a business, we do kind of take on different careers. So you have been basically a photographer for most of your adult life, right?

C (5:17)

Yeah, all my life. You know, because not knowingly, you know, you know, I'm not here to diagnose anybody. Right. But when you don't know the diagnosis, sometimes, at least for me, things start to make sense in my adult life versus what I did. And like, why am I unemployable? Why. Why do I keep quitting or getting fired or just. It's just us aren't working for me. And somehow we, we find our ways to create a living. And you end up doing this one thing for the whole entire life because you just, you're creative, you know how to make money, you know how to do it. Maybe a solo entrepreneur, maybe you grew it up to a multi billion dollar business where a lot of CEOs are, you know, don't have ADHD, but we kind of find our way.

B (6:04)

Yeah. And that's, that's interesting. You know, I could, I could take two roads to that. I could say, hey, I'm jealous of people who found one thing that they did really well and did it for decades. And then I think there's others, myself included, that I'm kind of cool that I had these life experiences. So, I mean, I, you know, I owned a restaurant, very successful restaurant in just outside of Boston. I owned a karate school, granted, for nine months. And then the economy, I read about

C (6:41)

all that last night. I'm like, am I being the right person? Like, that's amazing. Look at like, what else is going on here.

B (6:47)

Like public economy, really. I should, I should have met you, you know, many decades.

C (6:52)

Yeah. We could have had drinks done in Southie or something.

B (6:54)

You know, I mean, the, but the, the karate school is a really, really bad deal. I'm going to talk about that someday. So, but, so I think you had, you had sent me a note and I think you, you've kind of mentioned it in other avenues is you, you rebuilt from zero, you kind of embraced your adhd. But what kind of happened to make that shift from maybe seeing ADHD as a liability to using it as more of an asset?

C (7:30)

Yeah. So you know adhd, right? At least for me, I'm not saying anybody else or didn't have the education, knowledge, be a therapist, but after seeing so many photographers and hiring so many photographers over the years, my own business, they stayed with me because, or wanted to work with me because of my vision. And I'd get, this is what's going to happen and we're going to do this and we have HBO and would you want to work on this project? And the vision was bigger than, than most could actually personally think of themselves. And they're like, wow, this is amazing. I want to be like this, I want to be part of this. Which got me going. Right. That's what got me going. So when the pandemic happened and you have a size of certain sizes, economy, whatever, for me, it all, it all just tumbled down.

B (8:23)

Yeah.

C (8:23)

And when that tumble down, goes down and everything disappears from 52 people doing HBO, National Geographic, the Net, you know, the New England Patriots, and it's go, go, go. And that's what my mind needs, chaos and go. I thrive in that. So when it stops it, it's very dangerous to the point where you really get into a very deep depression, as I found out, because there's no vision.

B (8:48)

No, I, I, I can relate to that on, you know, a number of examples. But at the most basic level, like you say, I think we actually do good when we do stay in motion. Right. As long as there's not complete chaos, like there's flow, like I'm, I'm. And again, I say what you will about hyper focus and flow, but I think as busy people with adhd, executives, entrepreneurs, we do thrive on flow, where things are, you know, kind of doing their thing, where we're we're in our, we're in our zone, but maybe a little bit of challenged as well. And it's kind of a, a good thing, right? I mean, yeah, when we stop or when the hits the fan, so to speak, is not a great play for place for us.

C (9:42)

Not a good place at all. And you know, you know, I, before we hit the record button, you mentioned about school and like, I even graduated from school and I, you know, I, the first sentence of my own book, I mean, about the last person anybody would ever think in high school would write a book, never mind become an Amazon bestseller, was me, last guy.

B (10:00)

Right?

C (10:00)

Like, I even we used to celebrate when we got a C minus. When I came home, my report card, it was like, whoa, this is fantastic, Scott, great job.

B (10:07)

I, I, I do pull out the report cards and laugh because they are literally like the, the, you know, the memes that you see on social media. Like, needs to try harder, needs to pay attention. I'm like, oh my God, I couldn't, I couldn't have.

C (10:19)

Yeah, we celebrated. It was awesome.

B (10:21)

Like, I laugh now, right?

C (10:23)

Right? Oh, totally.

B (10:24)

Not right.

C (10:24)

Totally. Now it makes, well, now it makes sense, right? It makes sense. And you know, having conversations like you and I are having, we're sharing these stories. If you're this, maybe you listen to your kids and the C minus. Hey, listen, it's okay. It, it's going to be fine. You have a, a book out. You wrote a book. I mean, who would ever think that you would write a book and be a publisher and be an author? I have two, three myself. I'm working my third. I mean, we can hyper focus on something and do it extremely well and share that knowledge, and we're going to embrace that superpower. It doesn't matter about the C minus.

B (10:56)

Yeah. What is. And again, I know people do a lot of people disagree with the superpower term or categorization of, of adhd. I mean, you know, I, I think in general people think that. Yeah. Well, I think, let's break it down a little bit is that many of us have challenges uncovering what we're really good at. You know, we focus on the negative. Like, so many people come to me and say I'm on a performance improvement plan or I'm running this business and I'm drowning and you know, all this stuff and, you know, we got to kind of figure out what we're good at so we can kind of focus on that. But you say, you know, ADHD is a superpower. How does that kind of come out in your day to day business decisions or operations, so to speak.

C (11:55)

Yeah. You know, you know, looking back on it, when I, when I had my photography business and I was thriving as early age, I grabbed onto the camera like many photographers, and they don't know why they're creative, but they just got that eye. And because they're creative, they can promote it, they talk about it, they're really good. They deep dive, they just go all in. They go all in and then they'll. All of a sudden you're like, hey, I'm a photographer. I can make a business out of this. And for some reason, some people, they haven't found that camera. They haven't found maybe that book. For me, it transitioned from the, from the camera to, to write it. I became like, enjoyed it. I liked it. I thrived on. Was my dopamine hit. Right. Perhaps. Maybe that's my superpower today.

B (12:37)

Yeah.

C (12:38)

So it's like you're probably doing something that you're really good at and you really enjoy, but I think it really goes back to knowing your mindset in the diagnosis of adhd. It doesn't matter that you've been diagnosed or not per se. Right. But the idea is like, hey, I'm. Here's what I'm thinking and sharing your ideas and you listen to this podcast, you're like, hey, yeah, you know what? I really am good at that. I didn't realize it because I'm, I'm drowning in all the other stuff, but I'm, I'm actually really good at that. And you know what? Maybe, maybe it's not how I do it, but who does it? So if you suck it. Bookkeeping. Don't do bookkeeping.

B (13:16)

But I think, yeah, I think we actually do. I'll be as harsh as to say we do tell ourselves some lies occasionally when it comes to what we're good at. And.

C (13:26)

Oh yeah, yeah, it's the stories we tell ourselves.

B (13:29)

No, it is. No.

C (13:30)

100.

B (13:31)

100 and I 1 million agree that like, if, if you're just not good at bookkeeping, like, like, you know what's crazy is I can't think of having a career or a business or anything that has to do with numbers. That's just not my thing. I was great at restaurant math, you know. Right. That's about it. But the, the. And then I talk to other people like they're, they're CPAs, and there's this like, you know, CFOs. And yeah, I'm like, yeah, that's like Fresh hell for me, yo.

C (14:05)

No. Yeah. I mean, this is why, you know, we're somewhat kind of joke, but don't joke.

B (14:09)

Right.

C (14:09)

We're unemployable. I mean, sitting in an office cube somewhere. I mean, when, you know, 9 to 5, being there at 9:01 and leaving at 459, if you're lucky. I mean, some people need that structure. They thrive in that structure. People like you and I, we're just gonna pull our hair out.

B (14:24)

Yeah. Right. So can you think of something, an ADHD trait that maybe almost derailed you over the years of being in business? Was there something that maybe you were doing or were not doing or that that really kind of got in the way that you needed to kind of work on?

C (14:47)

I think I noticed it more, you know, after the pandemic. And going through that traumatic experience for me is I learned more about helping people after the pandemic happened because I need more help myself. And I think the biggest thing was, it was the stories I was telling myself where I lost that vision. I got stuck in my own way.

B (15:11)

Yeah.

C (15:11)

And time went by fast, and I didn't. I didn't comprehend time. And that's interesting.

B (15:18)

Yeah.

C (15:18)

And, you know, like, it's been six years. It's been six years for the pandemic.

B (15:23)

Yeah.

C (15:23)

It seems like yesterday to me. It's like, here's an example. This morning, I was preparing for this podcast. I was watching some other podcasts on YouTube that. That are about me. I'm flipping through the YouTube and I see. I see a podcast that I did five years ago. Right. And I'm like, that was five years ago. I've lost concept of time.

B (15:45)

No, I. I totally have that piece of my brain. Because you're right. Because I. I can remember it like it was yesterday where, like, the, you know, the gyms were shut down and, you know, I was out, like, walking the trails and. Which was great for my head, don't get me wrong. But sometimes when I go to a certain area where my gym is, and I remember that this whole building was closed, and it was a ghost town. And the mall up the.

C (16:15)

Yeah, yeah, up the street. Right, right.

B (16:17)

Walk around the mall. It was shut down. The signs were falling down, windows. I mean, things like that. Yeah. Walking. Taking walks with my father around the mall after the malls opened and wearing masks, and it's just like.

C (16:31)

Yeah, yeah.

B (16:32)

But you're right. It's just like, holy crap. That was like, you say, five, six years ago.

C (16:35)

Six years ago. It's like, you know, And I, and I speak about it like, well, the pandemic did this. Me in my business, I'm, I'm still recovering.

B (16:45)

Yeah, Yeah. I think a lot of us are. Yeah.

C (16:48)

You know, and it's like, it's. The thing is, you know, you know, you know, I help photographers build a business and I'll get on a call with somebody, they've been doing photography six, seven years, and they talk to me about all the challenges and what they've been doing. I'm like, you did all that in seven years, you're doing pretty good. You know, and it's like, it's like they're, it's their life, time spanned, which it is.

B (17:11)

Right.

C (17:11)

But right looking back, I'm like, wow, that I've been in the pause mode for like six of them. Right?

B (17:17)

No, and I. Exactly. I think you kind of, you nailed that. Because I, I do that, that comes to me often where I'm like, holy crap. It's just like, it's just like. Really? We were wearing masks. I haven't worn a mask. And what? You know. Yeah.

C (17:32)

You know, anywhere where I'm supposed to wear it.

B (17:34)

Right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I kind of refuse at this point. So I, I think people, entrepreneurs with adhd, busy people, we do struggle, I think, to some extent, with some consistency. Routines, different things like that. I remember, and I've said this a bunch of times, so if you're listening out there, forgive me, but there was a big ADHD lesson in this is watching Shark Tank once, and Mark Cuban was beating on some guy about his business. And, and it was like he was kind of running his business in chaos. And, and he says, if you don't have repeatable systems, you don't have a business. And I thought, there's such a major ADHD lesson on what he just said. So what systems do you have in place to kind of maintain things in your business on whether it's a daily or weekly type of, you know, time frame, so to speak? I mean, what, what systems are must haves for you?

C (18:42)

Yeah, well, I learned that real quick after the pandemic because when the pandemic happened, we're by ourselves, right. We weren't with people. You weren't in an office. I had an office. So for years, when I would do photo assignments, no matter the size, big, small, whatever, I would always bring somebody with me. I'd always have an assistant, I would always hire some assistant and. Or I'd drag my dad along. Right. Just, just to have that support or conversation. But What I found was, is being with somebody else. It's what they call the, you know, the buddy. There's a terminology and adhd and I have a shadow body. Shadow.

B (19:19)

Right, right. Doubling.

C (19:20)

Body doubling. Right. And. And so I was doing that my, you know, pretty much most of my professional career. And that's what kept me going, kept me on track, get me accountable, do this. Because I was with somebody else, I'm like, oh, yeah, where were we? Okay, let's get this done. Let's. Let's do this. Let's get that done. So when the pandemic hit, I didn't have that body doubling. I didn't have that other person to keep me accountable. So that's when things kind of didn't happen. I didn't follow through or this didn't. I didn't. Didn't have somebody in the office to drive things forward. And even when I had my office in 2017, 2018, you know, I always, I had an office manager, right? And like some people said, you need an office manager. I'm like, yeah, I can actually get things done or I'm talking things out. Just because I was talking it out, I would get more done. And so that's what kept. That was my system. That was my method. That was my way of doing it. Yes, I was busy. Yes, I needed somebody. But that was a big transition between a solo entrepreneur, where we were, you know, we work out of our homes, work out of our basements. Today is what's going to keep us accountable or who's going to keep us accountable.

B (20:27)

No, and I think that that's. And I think that's why, you know, some people come to me and they got a, like, just kind of course, correct. Maybe they hang out with me for three or four months. They want to work with another entrepreneur with ADHD to kind of figure things out. There's some people that have worked with me for years because they just like that kind of check in on a regular basis to just kind of, you know, again, correct course, so to speak. Or, you know, or I remind them that, hey, you were going to do X, Y and Z. How did that go? You know, and sometimes it's like, oh, it went well, we got it done. Or other times it's like, oh, crap, thanks for reminding me. I mean, it's just like some people need that kind of support and, you know, you can argue that maybe, well, we shouldn't need that. On the flip side, if that's what helps you stay productive and build your business, etcetera Etc.

C (21:27)

Right.

B (21:27)

Then why not take advantage of it? Right?

C (21:30)

Yeah. And again, just. You don't know what you don't know. Right. And so maybe you listen to this podcast and, you know, don't do what I did. Do what I say. Right. Really? You know, I'm telling you, if you're listening, pay attention to this. Right. Having somebody to be accountable for having that conversation with somebody. Don't go silent like I did during the pandemic. It was the worst mistake I did, you know, and that was. That was the big shift. That was the big aha moment.

B (21:55)

Well, I think. And again, everything with adhd, I can go like a couple different ways, but many of us are like, all right, we're problem solvers. We're going to figure this out where this is territory. But then you have a. A pandemic, and some of us are just sitting there in the fetal position. Right.

C (22:19)

Yeah. Way.

B (22:20)

How do I do? I mean, entrepreneurs, many people in business, you know, maybe your business closed down. You know, maybe you worked in retail, and then all of a sudden, boom, you know, you were shut down for. Maybe you were in a business that just literally disappeared. Right. I mean, and. And no backup plan.

C (22:46)

None.

B (22:47)

That's a. That's a rough place to be. I don't care if you have ADHD or not. Right.

C (22:51)

Yeah, I know, Exactly. It's just. Talk about overwhelmed. It gets so overwhelmed. It's like, why even bother?

B (22:56)

But, yeah, right. It's. It's like intense overwhelm. It's like, oh, pandemic. Didn't have that on my bingo card.

C (23:02)

Right.

B (23:02)

Yeah.

C (23:03)

Yes. You don't have the vision, you don't have that drive. Everything's gone, everything's disappeared. So overwhelming. Money is almost like, oh, you know, get a certain point in your life where you live a different lifestyle and you're used to the income and becomes. You come comfortable and confident about the next month or work. It doesn't overtake your mind because you have this. You know, you've been doing it for a while and things happen. You got things in the role. It kind of happens, but when it goes away, you don't realize that, man, I did have things in the pipeline, as they say. Right.

B (23:35)

Yeah.

C (23:36)

And it's. It's difficult to shift.

B (23:40)

So building or rebuilding from, I guess, zero. What are some of the practical steps that maybe you took or that you advise others to do? Because quite frankly, you're. I mean, there's some subtle differences, but you're either building a new business or you're Rebuilding something that maybe, you know, collapsed or, you know, took a nosedive in revenue. So one of those kind of 2, 3, 4, whatever the number is. Practical steps that people listening should consider if they're trying to kind of build up from, quite frankly, zero. Yeah.

C (24:26)

I think there would be three things, right. And the first thing I would do is, is I hear about this all the time. Didn't really implement it over the years, but have a roadmap, right? And I didn't, I didn't really grasp that. I'm like, yeah, I've heard about it and coaching programs and yeah, I got a roadmap, you know, in my head, visually, I knew where I was going to go. Okay, that's fine. But have a roadmap because if you don't know where you want to go, you're never going to get there. And when you do get there, you're not even going to feel like you're successful because you didn't even plan on getting there. It's a big mind shift in. Because our mind is the stories we tell ourselves. So if you actually have a plan, I don't care if it's on a whiteboard or a napkin, right. And you put it away, just know that, hey, I actually made progress. I actually did do this because as time goes on, that moment, our time right now becomes the norm and we actually forget how far and how advanced we've gone. I know that for a fact. I did my photography. I didn't plan on going to the White House. I didn't think I'd get National Geographic. I didn't think I'd get into England Patriots. And things just evolved and became the norm. And it became norm for many years and I didn't realize it and I didn't see success. It didn't seem like success to me as I, as I share my stories today. It's like, wow, oh my God. You know, like even still today, you know, the norm. But I understand, I, I understand it more where I never even shared my story because I never, I never had a roadmap.

B (25:59)

Yeah, yeah. What's involved in that road map? Obviously there's kind of a destination you want to get to, but I think for many of us, we do need to kind of chart out even those tiny steps. Right?

C (26:13)

Yeah.

B (26:13)

To get there. There's no step sense, I think, especially for us where, you know, I want to, I want to build a thriving photography business. Okay.

C (26:23)

But, but cool.

B (26:26)

But how there's got to be steps involved in getting there. It's you know, it's networking, it's building relationships, it's making calls, it's business development, it's etc. Etc. Right.

C (26:37)

100%. And you know, you know, going back to that planet. I was on a podcast yesterday and he picked up something in my book I call the 25 year plan. Because I read something you book about a 25 year plan. Tell me about that. I was like, well, it's exactly what it is. I mean I have a 25 year plan that I kind of put on paper 10 years ago what my 25 year plan was. And I, and then I had a 10 year plan, a five year plan and a one year plan and these plans kind of lined up on paper visually and mentally. Right. And you hear about a lot other people have done this, you know, the vision board, you know, having that vision board and seeing it. It was my vision board of 25 years because I knew, okay, here's where I want to go, here's what I want to do. It was my second career. It wasn't the national Geo and all the photography work. It was like, how am I going to build a business? How can I build it bigger? And that's where my 25 year plan came in. I want to write three books so I can help other people when I'm, you know, when I'm old, sitting on the rocking chair and I have clients and I'm talking to, I want to help out. I see a vision of that. Well, that was like seven years ago I did it now. I'm doing it now. Yeah, this was my plan to do in my 70s.

B (27:43)

Yeah.

C (27:44)

And I'm doing it my late 50s.

B (27:46)

Yeah.

C (27:47)

But it was in my mind to do it. So like you tend to go that direction because I did have that plan. So I'm, I'm appreciative where I am right now because like I wanted this so long ago and I'm doing it now.

B (28:00)

But I would argue that I think sometimes the ADHD brain does maybe need a more detailed roadmap as you say. Oh yeah, we get derailed.

C (28:15)

Derailed, right. Shiny object syndrome.

B (28:21)

Like you know, people, entrepreneurs know, business owners know that. I mean if we're lucky, things catch fire. But many people who embark on their own business, whether it's a solopreneur or a consultant or they invest money and yeah, you know, many times it doesn't go according to plan. So I mean I, when I started my PR firm 20 something years ago, I was lucky to have a couple really big clients right out of the gate. But then that waned off and I'm like, yeah, okay, crap, where's my next big client? You know? Yeah, it's just like not, you know, how do we, how do we continue

A (29:07)

to

B (29:09)

kind of celebrate the wins, so to speak, Right. And then be prepared for not getting derailed, you know, because we got this big, huge ass goal and then we're not meeting it, and then we're like, oh, crap, can we give up?

C (29:23)

This sucks.

B (29:24)

I'm.

C (29:24)

This sucks, I'm out. Right, right.

B (29:26)

How. How do you advise people to kind of compensate for that so we can continue to maintain our kind of interest and.

C (29:35)

Yeah.

B (29:36)

Intentionally.

C (29:37)

No, great, great, great question. And I was explaining this to one of my, you know, team members, one of my clients, coaching clients. And it was like, it's patents, right. You know, you continue to do something that doesn't work, repeatable, it's called insanity. Right. And so let's just look at this on a psychological way of thinking right now, and I'll speak of myself, is that we have these grand ideas. You just talked about the PR firm or the restaurant, the karate. It's like, oh, this is it. I'm all in. This is amazing. We're on top of the hill, right? So if you listen and visually, visually visualize yourself on top of that hill. And now we're going into it. We're in. We're going to it, right? And it becomes a little bit more work. There's challenges along the way. And we start slipping down that slope, right? And then all of a sudden, we lose one or two clients, whatever the case may be. And now we're at the bottom of the hill. You were like, this sucks. I'm out. I want to do the karate. I want to do like me. I did other things too. Like, trust me, I've had many shiny objects. And this is exactly why, what got me down today to help all the people because of this patent. And then I'd have to go back up the hill. Going back to that diagram. Going back, going back up the hill. The next shiny object, the next awesome thing, I'm all in. I can't think of anything else. This is going to work. And then we do it. We slide back down the hill.

B (30:52)

Yeah.

C (30:53)

And then we go back up the hill. And we go down the hill. We go back up the hill. So there's a pattern there. And we can actually probably visualize that as you listen in my pattern. Oh, yeah, I remember that project and this project and this project. But here's the Thing we're down at the bottom of the hill. Let's not repeat the same old patterns because it's going to happen again. So why don't we do this? Why don't we try to push forward up the hill? That sucks too sometimes. And that's work, you know. But at least I know where I want to go, which is on top of the summit of Mount Everest. And it's going to take a team. So when I'm at the bottom here and I know I'm struggling, let's create base camp. Let's get all the people involved that I need so that I can go up to the summit so I can get to the Mount Everest. So if you're at the bottom of the valley, you're a base camp. And it's just a matter. You got to get the right, the right person for the map in the tools, the how everybody has a unique job. When you have base camp, bring that team up. And if you can build that team at base camp as a team, you can thrive up that hill to get to the top. And we, we forget about base camp. We don't build the team. We don't. Because that's what happens when you build a business. You need a team of people. You need the whoever, the vice president, accountant, this whoever, right? You can't do it alone sometimes. And that's why we struggle. And having that body double that person to help you with it, I didn't know it, but that's what I was good at. And I was always building my base camp and just going back up to get to the summit because I know pinpoint exactly where I wanted to go. Yeah, that's helpful.

A (32:27)

Tell us

B (32:30)

a little bit more as we wrap up about how you spend your days, how you help people.

C (32:38)

Yeah, well, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna lie. I even today I, I gotta refocus. Refocus on, on, you know, my day to day, right. Talk about camera focus. And I, you know, it's, I have to refocus on what happened because on. As I rebuild, as I build my, my coaching program to help photographers build the business to last a lifetime, which is my thing as well as I'm still doing photography. I still have the Patriots and some hiring corporate clients because I want to be in the trenches with everybody. I don't want to be like, you know, well, Scott, that was just back in your day. No, it was like last Tuesday, guys. Okay, I'm doing it. I'm an end too I got the pitch. I'm selling it just like you. I'm not throwing the White House card in there here, dude. No, I'm pitching this to make sure that what works and what doesn't. And I'm refocusing, and I have to refocus, too. And it's about refocusing and not refocusing. Staying unfocused for four years, not knowing where to go was my problem. And you just gotta constantly refocus.

B (33:43)

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I agree. You gotta. I always talk of about hitting that reset button or the pause or, oh, gosh, slow down or just take 15 minutes sometimes to reset your week, you know? So I think. I think that's a good analogy of kind of refocusing. So cool. Hey, it was good getting back to the roots of overcoming distractions and talking about those of us out there who have broken free from the corporate spirit structure and tried to keep our lights on and pay our mortgage.

C (34:24)

Right, right.

B (34:25)

So how can. How can people find you? Yeah.

C (34:29)

You know, my first book was called Camera Focus, so I got Camera focus dot com, keep it really simple, go to Amazon, buy the book, see my profile, reach out, say, hi. I get two or three people a week, will randomly find my book on Amazon and reach out to me and they'll, Scott, is this Scott, like, yeah, answer all my calls right here. And, you know, you could do the same thing. And, you know, happy to have a coffee, chat with you. If you're in the Boston area, give me a call. If not, we can always do a zoom call. I'm always in car. The people that call me keep me going. It's my body doubling. So if you're listening camerafocus.com, reach out, love to have a conversation with you.