Bump Monkeys

Summary

PAPER GHOSTS: THE TEXAS TEEN MURDERS – EPISODE SUMMARY

Podcast: Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders
Host: M. William Phelps
Episode: Bump Monkeys (November 19, 2025)

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

In "Bump Monkeys," investigative journalist M. William Phelps dives deeper into the unsolved 1983 double homicide of Texas teens Vincent and Shelly. Through interviews with family members, local insiders, law enforcement veterans, and witnesses from the region's criminal underbelly, the episode explores emerging theories about police corruption, the pervasive influence of the 1980s Texas meth trade, potential cover-ups, and the lasting trauma inflicted upon victims’ families. Notably, new information surfaces, including a mysterious delivery of key evidence—suggesting the truth might still be within reach after decades of rumors, stalled investigations, and silence.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS AND INSIGHTS

1. Firsthand Family Reactions and Crime Scene Irregularities

• Raymond T. Garina (Vincent’s uncle) recalls hearing about the deaths and racing to the scene ([03:29 – 08:05]).

• Outrage at initial police framing as murder-suicide despite obvious evidence to the contrary.

• Raymond notes unusually lax crime scene security, allowing multiple people—including family and townsfolk—to disturb possible evidence ([06:30 – 08:05]).

• Detailed crime scene description: Both teens shot execution-style (.22 caliber hollow points), with visible blood splatter and indications of bodies being staged post-mortem to look like an embrace ([07:11 – 09:53]).

  "They took her back in the car and put her on her seat, on the front seat. And then they put him right next to her and they put their arms around her and stuff like that. Make it, I don't know, make it look like they were there for... hugging each other." – Raymond T. Garina [09:17]

2. Enduring Trauma and Community Distrust

• Ongoing trauma for families, compared by Phelps to "walking out of a film before the final scene" ([04:22 – 04:38]).
• Rumors of improper police involvement in the initial search and evidence handling, fueling suspicions of a local cover-up ([14:44 – 15:08]).
• Repeated mention of a still-current local law enforcement officer suspected by many but never formally linked to evidence.

3. Drug Trade and Alleged Police Corruption in Parker County

• Phelps situates the double homicide within Parker County’s booming meth scene of the 1980s, noting public and police narratives tended to blame the drug trade—sometimes as a means to "other" the crime and erase mainstream community concern ([19:13 – 20:42]).

  "Throwing that drug trade element out into the public early on would keep people from being overly concerned about the double murder of two teens happening in their backyard." – M. William Phelps [19:53]

• Christine, a self-identified former meth user/dealer, insists cops were involved in local drug activities and often harassed or entrapped those on their radar ([22:32 – 23:35]).

• She describes personal experiences of being pulled in for questioning over the teens’ murders, asserting the police targeted individuals from the drug community regardless of evidence ([27:08 – 30:49]).

  "They just picked us up from the house. I think it was because I was the smartass in town. I was respectful, yet I never would give him any information..." – Christine [29:15]

4. Theories: Wrong Place, Wrong Time or Something More Sinister?

• Multiple interviewees, including Christine and Shelly’s cousin Troy Nicholas, support the theory that Vincent and Shelly stumbled onto a crime in progress—possibly related to drug trades or even human trafficking—leading to their execution ([22:32 – 24:43], [32:31 – 35:52]).

• The word "bump monkeys" emerges as Christine’s term for desperate, lower-level drug-seekers possibly responsible for attacking the teens out of erratic motives rather than a calculated hit ([34:31 – 34:44]).

  "I called them bump monkeys because they always just... they were sort of like wimpy with a hamburger. Can you front me today and I'll pay you Friday type deal?" – Christine [34:31]

• The alternative: Both could have been in the "wrong place at the wrong time," either witnessing an illegal transaction or being targeted because of their presence at a known hot spot called “Piss Hill.”

5. Potential Major Players and the "Good Ol’ Boys" Network

• Shelly’s cousin, Troy Nicholas, articulates family frustration with decades of law enforcement inaction and community rumors that implicate major local business and political figures ([39:42 – 44:13]).

• Phelps and investigator Mel Mitchell connect local sausage plant owner Weldon Kennedy—previously convicted for human trafficking and rumored to have hidden undocumented workers in his facility—to the ongoing climate of organized crime and corruption ([45:20 – 47:56]).

• Private investigator Mel Mitchell: Describes Kennedy’s suspected criminal empire (human trafficking, bootlegging, narcotics, possible gun-running) and posits that Shelly and Vincent may have witnessed something they should not have, prompting their killings ([46:51 – 47:56]).

  “He kind of had his fingers in pretty much everything.” – Mel Mitchell [47:52]

6. Law Enforcement Corruption: Confirmation from Within

• Jimmy Freeman, former sheriff’s deputy, corroborates widespread police corruption claims—including involvement with major meth labs, car theft rings, and apparent manipulation of charges ([49:05 – 53:02]).
• Freeman directly names Rex Cobble ("the marijuana kingpin of Texas"), Weldon Kennedy, and a local, often-censored officer as central players, with Kennedy and Cobble allegedly operating across several states ([52:11 – 53:09]).

7. Mysterious Evidence Delivery and Suspicions within the Family

• In late 2024, Troy Nicholas receives an anonymous delivery of Shelly’s autopsy report at his doorstep—a document the family had unsuccessfully sought for 40 years ([59:45 – 61:39]).

• This sudden appearance raises questions: Was this a warning, a push to revisit the case, or a signal that someone is still monitoring the investigation? Troy expresses suspicion even toward members within Shelly’s own family ([62:09 – 62:58]):

  "I kind of feel that her father, Ronnie Cauliflower, was involved in it or at least knew of something going on." – Troy Nicholas [62:09]

8. Preview of Next Episode

• Hints that the investigation will delve into family dynamics and possible further connections or knowledge possessed by Shelly’s father, as well as more interviews with people tied to both teen victims ([63:17 – 64:11]).

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MEMORABLE QUOTES & MOMENTS

• Raymond T. Garina on initial police missteps:
  "Stupid cops called it a murder suicide even though they didn't find a weapon..." [03:51]

• On staging the bodies:
  "They took her back in the car and put her on her seat, on the front seat. And then they put him right next to her and they put their arms around her... make it look like they were there for... hugging each other." – Raymond [09:17]

• Reflecting decades of distrust:
  "Parker county isn't Mayberry. I was born and raised there. I wouldn't want to go to town today at 63 and even get pulled over in that town." – Christine [21:03]

• On the town’s criminal haze:
  “Everybody believed most law enforcement were on the take and some even controlled the drug trade.” – Paraphrased summary [23:04]

• Phelps on the challenge of rumor vs. fact:
  "If those statements cannot be backed up with two or even three additional sources, they have to go into the questionable column." [25:36]

• Troy Nicholas on family pain and lost time:
  "A lot of our family has passed away and we've never gotten anywhere." [57:35]

• On the mysterious autopsy report:
  "And now suddenly, an anonymous person slips Shelly's autopsy report into Troy's door in November 2024. What message is this person trying to send and why now?" – Phelps [61:12]

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• Raymond T. Garina recounts hearing of the murder & visiting the crime scene: [03:29 – 09:53]
• Crime scene discussion and evidence mishandling: [06:30 – 08:05]
• First mention of local rumors & possible police cover-up: [14:44 – 15:08]
• Insights into Weatherford’s drug trade and social atmosphere in the 1980s: [19:13 – 24:25]
• Christine’s experience as a suspect & her perspective on police and the murder: [27:08 – 32:14]
• Introduction and impact of "bump monkeys" theory: [34:31 – 35:52]
• Family perspectives and town power structures (Troy Nicholas): [39:42 – 44:13]
• Background on Weldon Kennedy’s criminal dealings (Mel Mitchell): [46:51 – 47:56]
• Corroboration of law enforcement corruption (Jimmy Freeman): [49:05 – 53:02]
• Troy receives anonymous autopsy report: [59:45 – 61:39]
• Troy’s suspicions about familial involvement: [62:09 – 62:58]

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CONCLUSION

"Bump Monkeys" thrusts listeners into the murky depths of a four-decade-old Texas murder mystery where crime, corruption, rumor, and grief intersect. In this episode, new interviews and old wounds reveal tantalizing new leads—investigating the looming shadow of organized crime, long-running theories about police collusion, and the persistent pain felt by families left in the dark. As the investigation progresses, it’s increasingly clear that the case’s greatest obstacles are time, power, rumor, and silence. With the arrival of long-lost evidence and the suggestion of new suspects, the story inches closer to answers—though the truth, for now, remains elusive.

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For more, tune in next week as Phelps continues unraveling the secrets of the Texas Teen Murders, with new voices and fresh revelations promised to shed further light on this enduring cold case.

Transcript

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[Raymond T. Garina]

Hello?

[M. William Phelps]

Hello, Raymond?

[Raymond T. Garina]

Who is this?

[M. William Phelps]

This is M. William Phelps. Matthew.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Oh, okay. Yes, Matthew. Okay.

[M. William Phelps]

How you doing?

[Raymond T. Garina]

Pretty good. How you? I'm back in the back feeding the goats. Oh yeah, Let me see. Let me. Let me go put this up and I'll just. I'll. I'll go ahead and talk to you. Go ahead.

[M. William Phelps]

Okay.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the wind's blowing real, real bad out here in Texas. About 45, 15.

[M. William Phelps]

Vincent T. Garina Jr's uncle Raymond T. Garina is 80 years old. Yet he can recall the moment he learned his nephew had been murdered with the vivid acuity of a man half his.

[Raymond T. Garina]

I used to run all the time in competition runs all over the state and me and my son had gone to run in Stevenville, which is 50 miles from here, 53 miles from here. We heard it on the news that morning after we finished. Stupid cops called it a murder suicide even though they didn't find a weapon or stupid, you know, stupid people just really get to you because I mean, you know, how in the hell can I murder suicide when, you know, we don't find a weapon or nothing like that. They were both shot in the head.

[M. William Phelps]

An unsolved murder has a tendency to affect victims families in any number of ways. One is to force them to think about what happened or imagine what might have happened over and over again. It becomes like walking out of a film that before the final scene or running from the altar on your wedding day, your mind is forever trying to finish the script and rewrite the ending. When Raymond and his 15 year old son were driving home and heard the report of a murder suicide in Weatherford on the radio, they looked at each other. Something about the report rattled them.

[Raymond T. Garina]

We heard about it and you know, didn't have any details and everything. And I told my son, I said let's go to Weatherford. I said let's go see about this stuff and stuff like that. Because they kept saying that one of them was Hispanic and we had no idea. They didn't announce any names or anything. When I got here I called my sister, she had phones, so I called her and she said, well, you probably come up here, Vincent son, I want to talk to you about it. So we took off from here and went out to see him.

[M. William Phelps]

After that call with his sister, Raymond drove straight to Weatherford and eventually showed up at the crime scene.

[Raymond T. Garina]

It was, to me, it was a premeditated murder. It was planned. First I thought it was that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time because they did a lot of drug dealing right there in that spot. But that wasn't so, because it couldn't have been because of the reason that it was. It was raining that night. Wind was blowing about 35 to 50 miles an hour. So that night had been in Weatherford, had been a real tremendous thunder and lightning and all this stuff. So it couldn't have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[M. William Phelps]

Raymond had actually studied criminal investigation long ago. He never followed through, but fashioned himself as someone with investigative intuition. And his observations on that morning, I'll say, certainly prove as much. What was most unusual, though Raymond believes he knows why, is that he and others were allowed to walk into the crime scene and. And even look inside the car where the kids had been found. First thing that struck him when he studied the interior of the vehicle were the shell casings.

[Raymond T. Garina]

He was murdered with a.22, small caliber.22, but they were hollow points. And when they went in, they went in a little bitty hole and it came out. Well, they didn't come out. It was just splattered all inside his head. He was shot twice, and he was shot first. I want to say my theory, my investigator. And she was shot as she was trying to get away, was shot in the back of the head. The guy was sitting in the back seat. He had a gun and probably made him open the door and all this stuff with a gun. There was a boot print and the back seat, real visible stuff. You could almost measure it and everything. And so I. I looked at it. There were shell casings in the car, hardly anything else. It was a little trash, but not trashy trashy like just normal. It was real clean. The car was real clean.

[M. William Phelps]

Was there blood spatter or blood spatter

[Raymond T. Garina]

on the driver's window? It didn't blow the window out or anything like that. On the window. There was blood splatter from him, from my nephew, and then the other side had blood was not splattered. It was hit. Was some on the door, but mainly on the bottom part of the door where she fell out when she opened the door. And they shot her right there. And she fell out and hit the. I'm gonna say hit her head on the. Not the armrest, but further down and went and hit her head real Hard, because it imprint real good her head on the mud. Of course, a lot of blood was. Was.

[M. William Phelps]

Describe for me what you saw in the mud.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Okay. An imprint. Like some. Not like a fist, but it was a. You know, you take a basketball and just imprint the heck out of it. Almost like that.

[M. William Phelps]

It looked like a human's face.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Yes, yes. It wasn't a face. It was a head. Top of the head fell down into the mud.

[M. William Phelps]

And was there blood there too?

[Raymond T. Garina]

Yes, there was a lot of blood because whoever was killing them or whoever was. Was helping him or whatever. Mom, sure he had help because they took her back in the car and put her on her seat, on the front seat. And then they put him right next to her and they put their arms around her and stuff like that. Make it, I don't know, make it look like they were there for. Make loving or whatever, you know, hugging each other, stuff like that. That's what they were doing.

[M. William Phelps]

There are so many different versions of the moment the kids were discovered and what happened before law enforcement arrived. I think what we can say at this point without question, is that Vincent Sr. Was moved the kids bodies while staging the scene and in doing so contaminated potential evidence. The question you'd have to ask is why would he move the bodies? Was it a moral decision, which has been suggested to me that he didn't want word to get out that the kids were found in a compromising position or was he trying to hide something? And what did Vincent Sr. Tell you, your brother, about what he saw when he got there?

[Raymond T. Garina]

Well, he saw him, you know, next to each other and arm around. He had his arm around her. There were the heads were together with both dead. And he, you know, he just went freak, you know, freaked out. I mean, he loved his son a lot. You know, his son had a curfew, that every time he was gonna go out and use my brother's car, he had to be home by midnight. And when that passed, you know, he said, my. My brother said, I felt something real bad in me. So I went to look for him.

[M. William Phelps]

I wondered exactly what time Vincent discovered the car. He was out all night, driving up and down Tintop Road and throughout town. By most accounts, he had not seen the vehicle until sunup. Was the car there throughout the night? Or had he just not seen it because it was dark? Or was the car driven up there early that morning and left out in the open so it could be found? I've heard both theories so far.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Really not. Suns hadn't come up, but it's enough daylight, he could see the car. He searched for him all night and when he was coming back home that he couldn't find them, went to look for some help. You know, my brother in law, when he was coming home, like I said he was, he saw the car park there. I mean it was right on the road. This park on the side of the road there was a little bit, there's a little hill and you could see the car or you can see the little hill somewhere, you, you know, the road. So he saw him, he did not see him, which it was at night, so he couldn't see the car when he went looking for him or he would have found him that night. But he didn't see it when he was coming back. He just saw enough of the car to see it was his.

[M. William Phelps]

And he thought they had been dead for a while.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Yes, yes, they have been dead for a good while, I mean hours.

[M. William Phelps]

Raymond makes a good point contradicting one of my original thoughts, that the car wasn't there throughout the night when Vincent Sr. Was looking for them. Raymond believes Vincent Sr. Would not have seen the car from the road in the dark. Also his theory about the kids being shot outside the vehicle. One source, if you recall, said she saw blood on the telephone pole when she was up there that morning. The only reason there would be blood outside the car is if one or both had been attacked or, or shot while standing or even running away. Next, Raymond explained how Vincent Sr. Told him that as he drove around he suddenly got this strange feeling about the kids, that something horrible had happened.

[Raymond T. Garina]

He felt real bad. Something hit him, like in your chest or something like that. Something hit him. And sometimes we get that way, you know, we Hispanics feel something like that, you know, when something terrible like that happens and I don't know, some kind of sense tell you, I don't know what it is, but we do feel things like that. So he felt something like that. That's when he went to looking for him.

[M. William Phelps]

When Raymond first arrived at the scene, stepping out of his vehicle, he couldn't believe what was going on with within the immediate crime scene area itself. People milling about, touching the car, picking up what could be trace evidence off the ground. Yet he feels he knows why.

[Raymond T. Garina]

I mean, when they, they come out there, I mean they came like dozens, they were poorly mishandled. Everything was mishandled.

[M. William Phelps]

And the name Raymond mentions next, I've bleeped out, but damn it all, it seems every time I turn around and speak to someone new, the same name pops up.

[Raymond T. Garina]

I don't know if they were trying to cover up or what. They already knew what had happened because police the city of Weatherford police were covering up for everybody blames cuz somebody said that they had seen some cop cars there during that night. I want to say that came and helped clean up the mess.

[M. William Phelps]

Previously on Paper Ghosts.

[Raymond T. Garina]

There was blood on the ground on her side. They didn't see anything on his side.

[Jimmy Freeman]

I know they were both shot in the head. He was shot the second time and

[Troy Nicholas]

of course Vincent found out later.

[Jimmy Freeman]

Vincent said he dressed the kids after

[Raymond T. Garina]

he got here Homicide but with.

[Jimmy Freeman]

With the amount of time that elapsed, you almost experience a similar thing there.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Right. Because the crime scene wasn't handled in 1983 the way it would be handled today.

[Jimmy Freeman]

Or even.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Even in 1993 for that matter.

[Jimmy Freeman]

Just. Just a different world.

[Mel Mitchell]

Yeah. According to Vincent's family, he was shot on the right hand side too because they all remember his left side being just really messed up, the eye kind of hanging out. So it would have been on the right temple as well for Vincent.

[M. William Phelps]

My name is M. William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalist and the New York Times bestselling author of dozens of true crime books. This is season 45 of Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders.

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[M. William Phelps]

A recurring theme which came up time and again as I dug deeper into this case became the drug trade. Not that the kids were doping or were friendly with dopers, but how widespread the production and use of methamphetamine was in Parker county at this time, and how it could have been the genesis of the murders during those days, immediately after Vincent and Shelly's bodies were discovered. Weatherford police seem to think the same thing because the focus quickly went to the meth trade as a potential motive. It's possible this is a legitimate question law enforcement posed in their search for an explanation. What is also possible is that throwing that drug trade element out into the public early on would keep people from being overly concerned about about the double murder of two teens happening in their backyard. I don't think it's any secret that the general public feels safer when a murder is written off as drug related, which can feel confined to a space like another world, which the average suburban family is not a part of. It also brings race and social status into it all, perhaps even convincing people to care less about solving it.

[Christine]

I kind of like my name to stay back, you know, still alive. I'm going to start off by telling you that Parker county isn't Mayberry I was born and raised there. I wouldn't want to go to town today at 63 and even get pulled over in that town.

[M. William Phelps]

This name you just heard bleeped out just like you heard censored previously has been mentioned as being connected to the murders by at least a dozen people I have interviewed. Many still fear accusing this man of having played a role in the murders. Yet I have seen zero material evidence connecting him to the murders and have to wonder if it is a mere rumor exacerbated by the power of social media and time. And it's vitally important to me that not to dox someone based on suggestion or the rumor mill alone. I am going to call her Christine. A source I connected with. She was deeply embedded in the drug culture of Weatherford and Parker county back in 1983, knew most of the players and also cooked, used and sold meth. Although I myself have been sober from alcohol now 30 years. I understand this world and knew many of the same types of people Christine will describe. So I am no stranger to this crowd and how they rip and run. With that in mind, I got right into it with her. Did they see something they shouldn't have seen? I mean, because they were executed.

[Christine]

So, yeah, I'm gonna say that's probably what happened. Exactly. I think a lot of the cops were in on it. And you still got one cop that's there in town, he was in on all this stuff, too. Some of the main players that I recall, that was always badgering. Oh, there they are. They would follow you. Well, we would. You know, we'd end up following them. So we chased them. You know, it was sort of a cat and mouse. They wanted to come at you.

[M. William Phelps]

Christine goes on to tell me that everybody believed most law enforcement were on the take and some even controlled the drug trade. Then she drops a woman's name she knew personally, whom others have also mentioned to me, this person was always in trouble and frequently arrested for drugs. Though it seems once she hooked up with a cop, her life, you could say, well, it got a hell of a lot easier.

[Christine]

Now, I'm going to go on to tell you some more story that whenever I would get thrown in jail, that was always in there. Well, she would screw through the bars, which was a. I'm not sure of his title, but he was at the sheriff's office. But them two, which grew through the bars, I sat there and watched them. And she's been to prison a whole bunch. I've never been to prison. Thank God. I got some sense about myself. She was at my cousin's house when my cousin died. I think she overdosed her. So I would never say never to that one. She was weird. She was bizarre. Not saying that I wasn't, but she was the one that maybe couldn't handle it. Maybe she needed to quit that stuff, but she was weird as hell.

[M. William Phelps]

I'm trying to get what you're saying. You're saying that maybe she could have done something to the kids.

[Christine]

I think she fits in there somewhere. I've always thought that. And that's my thought. My thought. I don't think it's a rumor around town. That's a deal that me and you are talking about.

[M. William Phelps]

It is indeed one of the many rumors I have heard. Was it shocking around town that the two kids had been murdered, Executed, shot?

[Christine]

I don't think I was surprised.

[M. William Phelps]

How come?

[Christine]

Just knowing the tyrants around town, knowing that they probably fell into the wrong place at the wrong time. It was a dark town and boy, if you ever. If you ever knew a little bit. It's just a scary town. A lot of us kids were high on drugs. I think there was more. Eve Hine was cut up and has parted out around Parker County. I don't know if it had anything to do with some of the big people around there with dope or what.

[M. William Phelps]

When I hear stories like this within the context of an unsolved double murder, I need to consider that gossip about this case was rampant back in the day and still is. If those statements cannot be backed up with two or even three additional sources, they have to go into the questionable column. Christine has every reason to dislike cops. She was a criminal on their shit list. That's inherent bias. So I listen and later consider whether to include or exclude the information. All that being said, what she tells me next is kind of remarkable.

[Christine]

We all used a little. Little dope, even the ones you wouldn't think was using dope in town. You know, we smoked cigarettes, smoked lids, but then caught on. And the. The. There was quite a few cops in town that you would see. One with a horse trailer full of weed. And I want to tell you, all these people that I'm talking about, after these kids were killed, it's sort of like they like, disappeared.

[M. William Phelps]

Tell me about what you remember about that weekend, March 25th, 26th, what happens?

[Christine]

What I remember is I was kind of doing my own thing, staying in Fort Worth so that I would stay out of Weatherford. But what happens whenever I came back into town? They pulled me in for murder. And then they also pulled my little brother in for murder.

[M. William Phelps]

They pulled you in for murder? For whose murder?

[Christine]

For those kids.

[M. William Phelps]

My source, Christine, explains that she and her brother were hauled in for the murders of Vincent and Shelly during those early days after their bodies were found on Piss Hill. I had so many questions. Number one, why her? Why her brother? Were they just rounding up the local known drug crowd and questioning them? Or did they have a viable reason to drag them in?

[Christine]

And they questioned us. I didn't get polygraphed, but whenever they asked me who I thought it was, I told them it was. He is a tyrant.

[M. William Phelps]

Back up a little bit for me. So you're living outside of Weatherford and the kids are murdered. And when and how does it happen? Where are you? What happens?

[Christine]

You know, that would be hard for me to say. I was probably higher in hell. But I'm gonna guess I was probably in Fort Worth.

[Jimmy Freeman]

He.

[Christine]

He was selling drugs. My ex husband, the piece of that he was. Anyway, we stayed more in Fort Worth so that we wouldn't get in trouble because we did know what Parker county was. And I say Parker county, that's Weatherford. I just remember I would come into town, but I would get right back out because I knew I was up to no good with the use and sales of drugs.

[M. William Phelps]

How did they latch onto you for the murder of the two teenagers, Vincent and Shelly?

[Christine]

They just picked us up from the house. I think I was at my mother's.

[M. William Phelps]

So they pick you up?

[Christine]

I think it was because I was the smartass in town. I just didn't tolerate them. I was respectful. Yet I never would give him any information, would ask you to sell his dope or you're gonna go to jail. You know, all that type of stuff. So we had already had conflict.

[M. William Phelps]

I had heard the same accusation from others. If he wanted you to, you either sold or cooked for the guy, or he was up your ass all the time and you would eventually go down in a big way. And how long after the murders were you pulled in?

[Christine]

It was right away.

[M. William Phelps]

So they come to your house, they handcuff you. I mean, what happens?

[Christine]

They said they needed to question me. They took me down to the city for questioning.

[M. William Phelps]

What kind of questions did they ask you?

[Christine]

Did you kill the kids? Do you know anything about it? Top deal. We heard you did it. We heard you were involved. Those kind of questions of it was like they were trying to jam you up admitting that you had done the crime. Whenever I hadn't done the crime, I wouldn't kill kids.

[M. William Phelps]

What evidence did they have that they were able to drag you into this?

[Christine]

It was just who we were in Weatherford.

[M. William Phelps]

I see.

[Christine]

You know, I wasn't precious. By no means. I just did what I wanted to do, and I didn't care what somebody else thought about it.

[M. William Phelps]

How did you ultimately get out of that? When did they let you go?

[Christine]

Well, they asked me. They let us later. Let me go right away after they questioned me. And. And they said, who do you think it is? And I said, it's. I said, it's who it is.

[M. William Phelps]

What did they say to that?

[Christine]

I don't remember the exact expression or reply. That's been so many years ago. I remember they treated you like. Oh, yeah. Top situation, like. Yeah, oh, yeah, right. I think they just was questioning because they didn't know. I don't think they knew who it was.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Okay.

[Christine]

And to be quite honest, I remember it was just something that you kind of knew that it was just. Did I know that to be true? No, I didn't.

[M. William Phelps]

Why would he have a motive to kill the kids? What would be the motive?

[Christine]

He was selling drugs himself. He was getting the dope. And then he would get his little Hanjoks. The. The ones that were just plain users, not sellers, end users.

[M. William Phelps]

When you say he was selling dope, who do you mean? Okay, so what motive would. Would he have to kill the kids? Because Vincent wasn't selling dope. Right?

[Christine]

I mean, no, I think they were just doing the parking. Probably kissing, if I was guessing. We called that piss hill there where it was. And it was. It was in the same parking lot with a school. There was an old school.

[Jimmy Freeman]

It was in

[M. William Phelps]

one after the other. 6, 7, 8. So many people I've spoken to paint this picture of law enforcement being involved in the drug trade and the kids coming upon some sort of deal, seeing something they should not have. But I am still uncertain about hanging my hat on this theory. There are just too many unanswered questions and variables. Still, the truth is the Weatherford Police Department and all the way up to the Attorney General's Office have denied my requests for any reports or witness statements from 1983. This obstruction has forced me to talk to everyone myself. 40 plus years later. And if there's one obstacle in Cold Case investigation you consistently face, it's that time has a way of adding texture and heft to stories. People can talk conspiracy, cover up. The cops did it all day long. And yet I always begin with a basic Occam's Razor premise that murder is uncomplicated. Generally the simplest answer, the one that makes the most sense, is the answer. And in this case the potential is there that the uncomplicated resolution making the most sense is that law enforcement is corrupt and behind it all, sometimes within a reinvestigation you need to ask tough questions you know will not sit right with victims families, but it is necessary if your goal is to get at the truth. For the sake of argument, say the girl was raped. Would that bring up any other names for you?

[Christine]

It was I called them bump monkeys because they always just they were sort of like wimpy with a hamburger. Can you front me today and I'll pay you Friday type deal?

[M. William Phelps]

That comment about bump monkeys is interesting because I have been told by several sources that Shelley was raped and that as you have already heard, she had scratches, which I have not confirmed as of yet, along the right side of her body as if she had been dragged through a briar patch. So an obvious theory could be a few bump Monkeys dudes jonesing for a fix hanging around Piss Hill looking for dope came upon the car as Vincent and Shelly were hanging out. They got into it with Vincent, killed him and then raped Shelly before murdering her. All because they wanted dope. So there wasn't like a sexual deviant in town that everybody knew about?

[Christine]

No.

[M. William Phelps]

Basically from what I'm getting from you is you think they saw something up at the hill they shouldn't have seen? Yeah, or possibly they saw it down in North Main while they were cruising and somebody followed them.

[Christine]

Wow. Haven't thought of that theory. I think they pulled up while something was probably going on if if I had to guess the situation.

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[M. William Phelps]

Hey Troy.

[Jimmy Freeman]

Hey.

[Troy Nicholas]

Come on in.

[M. William Phelps]

How you doing? Nice to meet you.

[Troy Nicholas]

Troy. Nicholas.

[M. William Phelps]

Nice to meet you.

[Troy Nicholas]

Girlfriend.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Bessie.

[M. William Phelps]

Good morning. Hi. Good morning, Bessie. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too, sir. Come on in. Have a seat.

[Raymond T. Garina]

Yeah.

[M. William Phelps]

Yeah. So I. Yeah. Thanks for coming man. I appreciate it.

[Raymond T. Garina]

No problem.

[Troy Nicholas]

I'm glad you're getting involved. She's said a lot about you.

[Jimmy Freeman]

Yeah.

[M. William Phelps]

With the help of Mel Mitchell and Lori Cates, I met one of Shelly Cauliflower's close cousins. He's an old school Texan, speaks His mind doesn't hold back and doesn't give two shits about what anybody thinks or has to say about him. My kind of guy.

[Troy Nicholas]

My name's Troy Nicholas. I'm from Dallas, Texas. Shelly was my cousin.

[M. William Phelps]

Like all of Shelly's family, Troy wants to see action, accountability and expects law enforcement to provide the family with updates and answers. And they haven't done any of that throughout 40 plus years, he says in Troy's view, they've had enough people telling them that the guiding theory of the case involves big names in town at the time and those people need to be brought in and questioned. Yet nothing has been done in that regard. And where did you grow up, Troy?

[Troy Nicholas]

There in Dallas, Texas, actually. Garland.

[M. William Phelps]

Garland, Texas. And tell me about growing up in Texas at that time. What were you like as a kid?

[Troy Nicholas]

Troy started out in high school with rodeo and stuff like that and graduated high school and kind of went downhill a little bit and then started getting it all back together and done a lot of things in life, you know, Got to travel to Lower 48, part of Canada.

[M. William Phelps]

Oh wow.

[Troy Nicholas]

I love to ride, so.

[M. William Phelps]

Oh, you got a Harley?

[Troy Nicholas]

Oh, yeah.

[M. William Phelps]

So tell me a little bit about the rodeo. What was your experience like with the rodeo?

[Troy Nicholas]

Never really got any good, but we had a lot of fun, was doing bull riding and high school. We called it shoot dogging.

[M. William Phelps]

So shoot dogging?

[Troy Nicholas]

Yeah, you bring them out of the chute and go so far and throw them down. Fastest time wins.

[M. William Phelps]

And so tell me about the family.

[Troy Nicholas]

Big family, small family, medium sized family. Most of them live down around Meridian, Texas, Clifton, Texas.

[M. William Phelps]

And so how are you connected with Shelly? How does that.

[Troy Nicholas]

My father and her mother are brother and sister. Kind of sort of grew up together. We didn't spend a lot of time with each other because they living elsewhere, you know, so holidays and summertime trips to grandparents house and stuff. So we got to spend a little bit of time together. Shelly always got along with everybody. She was easygoing, a happy girl, you know, like I said, we didn't get to spend a whole lot of time together. But whenever my mom and us kids would go down to Meridian to see other family as well, you know, and if they were there, we hung out for the day or the weekend. Not much to do in that little town.

[M. William Phelps]

Troy sketches a familiar portrait of a family in flux. A family getting together and sharing stories, but also a family drifting apart. He has some rather bold views about the murder of his cousin and has pretty much kept them to himself until now. As we spoke, two things Troy mentions send me in a new direction, even if that direction rings a familiar bell. Troy got involved in Shelly's case after being thrust into a rather strange situation as he began to ask questions and poke his finger into people's chests. Have you heard things about Weatherford?

[Troy Nicholas]

Heard a lot of things about Weatherford.

[M. William Phelps]

What have you heard?

[Troy Nicholas]

Just the problems with the law, and that covers everybody. Court, law, whatever. As a young child, never went. And like I said, I kind of got messed up in life.

[M. William Phelps]

Sure.

[Troy Nicholas]

Years ago and had heard things. Nothing pertaining to this, but just about how the law was, that kind of stuff.

[M. William Phelps]

How did the law work there? Did you hear?

[Troy Nicholas]

Crooked?

[M. William Phelps]

Good old boys club?

[Troy Nicholas]

Yeah, you could say that. I didn't hear it that way, but yes, heard a lot more about that since this has been going on. Talking to people over the telephone and stuff like that.

[M. William Phelps]

Sure, sure.

[Troy Nicholas]

I know back in the wilder days, I know a lot of stuff come through this area.

[M. William Phelps]

What kind of stuff?

[Troy Nicholas]

Drugs.

[M. William Phelps]

What kind of drugs?

[Troy Nicholas]

I don't really know. The speed wasn't really on what I was into, but I know a lot of people that were coming to this area to do their pickups. Yes. And from who and stuff? I couldn't say.

[M. William Phelps]

Troy clarified that by speed he's referring to meth. Do you recall hearing about what happened to Shelly and Vincent?

[Troy Nicholas]

I got there the day after it happened and of course, you know, wasn't hearing a lot because we're considered kids at that time, even though a senior in high school. And I remember hearing my father and his brother that had talked about, you know, word is that the man that owns the town and didn't know it back at the time, knew he owned a sausage plan or a processing plant. Really couldn't say what kind of plan it was, but it was to do something with animals, that he owned the town, that somehow he was involved. And then again, they're talking at that time about the. The law being involved. Can't really finger pinpoint to any certain person, you know, and just being straight up about it. But it was, you know, the man that owns the town, his people are involved and the law.

[M. William Phelps]

That man, Weldon Kennedy, and his sausage processing plant, is a threat. I began to hear from, from several people I interviewed. By the time I sat down with TROY in early 2025, I still wasn't certain how a sausage factory in Weatherford and its wealthy businessman owner could be connected to the murders of two teens in town. The year following the murders, 1984, Weldon Kennedy was convicted of alien crimes as the local paper put it, 31 charges relating to transporting and harboring undocumented workers. Human trafficking. He was bringing in illegal aliens from Mexico and hiding them out in his plant, basically making them work to pay off debts. A nice word for it is indentured servitude. We've all heard this disgusting narrative before, but Kennedy has been accused of other crimes as well. Big, bad things. So I asked Mel Mitchell, who has spent years running this part of the case down, to explain the connection between this guy and these murders. Had the kids somehow stumbled upon his human trafficking operation that night? Was I back to square one. A motive that makes perfect sense. Wrong place, wrong time.

[Mel Mitchell]

Kennedy Sausage Company. It was owned by Weldon Kennedy, and it was probably one of the bigger employment companies in that time period back, you know, and I know he owned a couple of other businesses, but I know that was like a larger place of employment for people in Weatherford. Looking at court cases. And Weldon had been convicted of quite a few different crimes over time period, and those also included the illegal immigrants that he was having brought in from, you know, from Central America, Mexico, then. So he was hiding them in the facility. There's like a. Supposed to be a false wall, from what we understand. And so you could, like, move it back and it could hold, maybe. I've heard up to 11 people in it. But that's also where he may have had a stash of illegal alcohol. He had also been rumored to be gun smuggling, human trafficking, you know, obviously narcotics. We believe he is also involved in narcotics trafficking. So he kind of had his fingers in pretty much everything.

[M. William Phelps]

What you just heard private investigator Mel Mitchell explain, opened up a vein in this case, taking me further down into a rabbit hole than I could have ever expected. It seems that Kennedy was connected to the same man whose name I've been censoring throughout the podcast. Someone high up in law enforcement. So now you're looking at the potential of a hardcore convicted criminal, Weldon Kennedy, involved in enormously profitable federal crimes. It's not crazy to think that a guy like this wouldn't have thought twice about taking out two kids who randomly stumbled upon his operation or ran into one of his soldiers. Jimmy Freeman was a deputy for the sheriff's department back in the day and had a lot to say about what was going on inside that department. A department that kept a close eye on what was going on around Weatherford.

[Jimmy Freeman]

I'm from Mineral Wells, right west of Weatherford, and it's a smaller town than Weatherford. Just as soon as I finished school. I went to work for the state of Texas down in Huntsville. I was going to college down there in Huntsville. And I started working for the penitentiary and the game wardens and the highway patrols when I was just young man and stayed there. Stayed there for 10, 11 years and went from there when I come. When I left there and come up here, I went to work for the sheriff's department and stayed here another six or seven years here in Parker county with the sheriff's department. Then I finally got out and started doing anything and everything. Building houses, building barns, building.

[M. William Phelps]

When he went to work for the sheriff's department, Jimmy says he saw and heard things which were hard to believe at first. And almost as if on cue, that name I have been censoring throughout it comes up again.

[Jimmy Freeman]

Will. It was okay at first when I first. When I first went to work for him, but then all of a sudden changed the laws as he went for. As he went down the road. And there's not but one law ever been made. And he. He wanted me. The very first time there was a man that was asleep on the side of the road, I got the call. So I went. I went out there and found the man. He was asleep. There was an empty whiskey bottle in the back. And wanted me to give him a dwi. And I told I can't give him no dwi. I said, I didn't see the man driving. He's asleep in the damn car.

[M. William Phelps]

A seemingly small corruption operation soon turned into what Jimmy saw as a much bigger one as time went on. And he kept his mouth shut and his eyes open.

[Jimmy Freeman]

Then I found out two or three times that he had some people deal cars and tear them apart, take them apart and sell all the parts different places and stuff like that. It just rocked on. And he was. He was not the man I thought he was. When I went to work for him,

[M. William Phelps]

I asked him about the production and distribution of methamphetamine. Had he ever discovered anyone in law enforcement involved?

[Jimmy Freeman]

And I knew where. There was some places down here at Millsap that there was some cooks down there when he finally quit up yonder. But he moved, they moved, he moved down there. And he had two places in Millsap, both owned by the county.

[M. William Phelps]

And these were places where they'd cook methamphetamine?

[Jimmy Freeman]

Yes. Yes.

[M. William Phelps]

So was involved in the process of the cooking or distribution, or was he overseeing everything?

[Jimmy Freeman]

All of it. And like I said, everything. He had to cook all this stuff and they distributed it and put it out. Rex Cobble, weldon Kennedy.

[M. William Phelps]

Rex Cobble was known as the marijuana kingpin of Texas during the 1970s and also, as Jimmy Freeman seems to suggest, the general within what was known as the Cowboy Mafia, a large group of very wealthy drug smugglers. Cobble was later indicted and convicted on 10 counts ranging from racketeering to misapplication of bank funds. Rex Cobble and Weldon Kennedy, Jimmy says, were at the top, whereas the other man. Well, I'll let Jimmy explain.

[Jimmy Freeman]

A little man up against Rex Cobble and, and Weldon Kennedy.

[M. William Phelps]

Okay. The sausage guy. They were, they were.

[Jimmy Freeman]

He was, it was like about four or five counties when Rex Cobble was, he was worldwide and Weldon Kennedy was four or five states, if not more.

[M. William Phelps]

I needed to wrap my mind around exactly what Jimmy Freeman was telling me, that this high ranking member of law enforcement and Weldon Kennedy were allegedly at one time major meth distributors in Parker county and beyond. Jimmy wasn't the only source telling me this. I had heard it time and again from from law enforcement, whistleblowers and others living in the area, many of whom had actually worked for the two of them. But what's even more astonishing is two people closely connected to Kennedy and that law enforcement official knew Vincent and especially Shelley very well.

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[Public Investing Advertiser]

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[M. William Phelps]

These types of cold case murders, where information can feel scattered and fragmented, require patience. I've learned over the years to trust the process, keep talking to people and keep asking the right questions and if there is a greater truth to be found in it, will somehow rise to the surface all on its own. Speaking to Jimmy Freeman felt like I could see the sun rising just over the mountains with peaks of light finally starting to emerge. Shelly's cousin Troy wasn't finished talking and what he tells me next sends things in yet another direction. So what are you hearing from the family? I mean obviously everyone's distraught. Do you remember how it was for family back then?

[Troy Nicholas]

Oh, everybody was really tore up. It just took us all by, you know, major surprise. I mean Shelly wouldn't have done. From what I know of Shelly throughout the, you know what, 16, 17 years there, she was sweet, innocent, didn't want problems, never caused any problems that I knew of. Oh baby. Besides you know, sneaking out of the house or something other I don't maybe a little smart mouth talking or something. That's been all I knew of up until this happened and then I can remember my dad and his brother talking about it. Aunt Johnny at the time wasn't really in a position to be talking, you know, being all upset and stuff. But yeah it was pretty tough on the family. And it's a shame that a lot of our family has passed away and we've never gotten anywhere. You know, I think of her from time to time. And now that, you know, 40 plus years has gone by, it's less than every day. I guess you could say that you'd stop. I would stop and think of her. I know back in the day, you know, at my age, that was all I could think about for a long time. You know, just trying to close your eyes and picture what really happened that night. You know, I know Vincent. He was from hearing the family talk. He was a well liked guy, knew a lot of people. And of course, knowing how Shelly is, you know, like I said, she was a good kid as far as I'm concerned. Never really done anything wrong.

[M. William Phelps]

I mentioned earlier that there were two things Shelly's cousin Troy told me, both of which sent me scurrying down into a deeper part of this investigation. One was the implication that convicted human trafficker Weldon Kennedy had some sort of connection to the case. The other is more recent. Much more, actually. Something strange happened to Troy one evening in late 2024 when he got home from work. He stepped out of his truck, walked toward the front door of his house and found a surprise waiting for him.

[Troy Nicholas]

There was an envelope laying on the the front porch there, in between the front door and the screen door. And I didn't think much about it. Picked it up, went on in the house. You know, kind of did my normal get home routine there. And then I opened it up and it was. Who brought or delivered this? Still today? Have no clue. But it was the copy of the autopsy report on Shelly.

[M. William Phelps]

And what'd you do?

[Troy Nicholas]

I read it and then made a few phone calls.

[M. William Phelps]

Both families had been lobbying for records in the case for the past four decades to no avail. Not a witness statement photograph, not even a damn police report. They had been told it was an open case and Weatherford Police Department cannot release records. They had been told all the records were lost in a flood. They had been told a truck pulled up and took everything to the local garbage dump. So nobody knew what the hell to believe anymore. And now suddenly, an anonymous person slips Shelly's autopsy report into Troy's door in November 2024. What message is this person trying to send and why now? What did you feel after reading it?

[Troy Nicholas]

Numb to a point. Confused, you know, and then really confused on how did somebody find where to put that? Who was it and who knows me that had that it's really strange.

[M. William Phelps]

Why hadn't they mailed it instead of taking the risk of being caught dropping it off? Why Troy? He was not even one of the more public family members out there speaking about the case. What could be in that report that meant so much at this point in the investigation? I asked him about it all and what Troy tells me next, well, is something completely out of left field.

[Troy Nicholas]

I know it's going to throw a loop, but I kind of feel that her father, Ronnie Cauliflower, was involved in it or at least knew of something going on. I've tried contacting him through his daughter, called, left messages, text message, Facebook. I can't get him to call back. My dad always with his brother, he would always say, how do you put it? I lay you two to one that he's involved some form or fashion is what my dad would say.

[M. William Phelps]

Whatever platform you get your favorite podcasts on, please check out my weekly series Crossing the Line with M. William Phelps, where I delve into a new missing person and cold case murder in each week. Coming up in the next episode of Paper Ghosts.

[Christine]

And some other people came in and I stepped out into the hallway and Ronnie came in and told me that I needed to leave. He was angry, very. And he said, I need you to leave. And I said, okay, I can do that. And he said, no, I want you out of my house.

[Mel Mitchell]

And one person went to Vincent's side, kind of looked in on the casket. The other person went to Shelly's side, looked in on the casket and then kind of met up in the middle. And people are kind of looking at them thinking, okay, well are they gonna introduce themselves, gonna say hi like. But they didn't do any of that. They just kind of went over there, looked in the caskets and kind of met in the middle and then left.

[Troy Nicholas]

Wendy had gone to Lake Weatherford to

[Christine]

a place called the Wall. She was alone and and she didn't come home and so they called the police and reported her missing.

[M. William Phelps]

Paper Ghost Season 5 is written and executive produced by me, M. William Phelps, Script Consulting by iHeartMedia Executive Producer Kathryn Law Production by Takaboom Productions Audio mastering and mixing by Brandon Dickert the Series theme number 442 is written and performed by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney.

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