Piss Hill

Summary

Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders – Episode "Piss Hill" (Nov 5, 2025)

Host: M. William Phelps
Podcast: iHeartPodcasts – Paper Ghosts
Episode Theme:
This riveting episode dives deep into the unsolved 1983 double murder of teens Shelly Cauliflower and Vincent T. Gerena, whose bodies were discovered on Piss Hill, Weatherford, Texas. Through witness accounts, family interviews, and a rare on-tape conversation with the first officer on the scene, investigative journalist M. William Phelps uncovers overlooked evidence, murky police practices, and a town marked by racial tension, secrecy, and grief.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Reconstructing the Final Night: Establishing a timeline of Shelly and Vincent's last hours, focusing on ‘cruising’ culture and activity around Piss Hill.
• Key Witness Testimony: Introducing "Teddy," an anonymous source revealing crucial details from that night—including the pivotal sound of gunshots during a thunderstorm.
• Family Perspectives: Emotional insights from both victims’ families about the night of the murders, the subsequent investigation, and its lasting trauma.
• Law Enforcement & Systemic Failure: First-hand account from Robert Hardin, the officer first on scene, exposing gaps and irregularities in investigative protocol.
• Racial Climate & Suspect Pool: The context of racism in Weatherford at that time and potential implications for the case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Local Teen Culture and "Piss Hill" (02:24–06:29)

• Cruising Hotspot: Teens in Weatherford frequently cruised South Main, with "Piss Hill" serving as a secluded hangout to relax, drink, or take breaks from the loop.
  • Teddy (Anonymous Witness): "That's where you would go to go hang out, you know, while you're—you cruise the main drag and then you get kind of bored with that. And then you go up on this hill, guys would take a leak or whatever, have a few drinks..." (05:37)
• Multiple Monte Carlos: That night, at least three identical cars (Monte Carlo models) circulated the strip, contributing to potential confusion in witness spotting.

2. Witness Timeline & Sounds of Violence (07:27–16:33)

• Eyewitness Account: Teddy observed Vincent and Shelly multiple times from about 7:30–10:30pm while cruising, sometimes at Piss Hill.
  • "I did see Shelly and Vincent—not knowing their names at the time...because everybody made that same loop going down the main drag." (07:27)
• Gunshots Amidst Thunder: While parked at Piss Hill during a storm, Teddy distinctly recalls hearing shots, separate from thunder.
  • Teddy: "I'm sitting here listening to the thunder and then I hear. I hear what the sound of a thunder sounds like rumbling...and during the same time as a thunderstrike, it seemed like I was hearing gunshots." (14:19)
  • This subtle detail would be pivotal: “That noise was so distinctly different than the thunder that Teddy instinctively crouched down in his seat, thinking somebody was firing a weapon in their direction. He was certain of it.” (16:00–16:33)

3. Context — Family, Investigation, and Town Dynamics (17:53–34:18)

• Family Dynamic: Vincent’s family spoke about their close-knit ties, his character, and racial challenges they faced in Weatherford.
  • "He was an enigma, because he was a perfect, ideal kid...helped his dad with the business...straight A student...There wasn't anything he wouldn't do." — Vincent T. Gerena Family Member (23:40)
  • Deep racial tension, including the presence of KKK and law enforcement collusion, sets a dark backdrop for the crime.
    • “The 80s in Weatherford was more like the 50s...you were pretty much ridiculed for being anything other than white...We were always told, never stay when it gets dark, because that was known to be where the KKK would come and, you know, do their nightly things.” (27:33–28:46)
• Early Search Efforts: Vincent's father searched all night; the victims' car was not on Piss Hill before sunrise, suggesting the bodies were placed post-midnight.

4. Crime Scene Discovery & Immediate Aftermath (38:08–43:44)

• Harrowing Discovery: Vincent Sr. finds the bodies around 6am; site is wet and muddy from the thunderstorm.
  • "As he walks up to the driver's side door, he can see his son slumped back against the seat, blood everywhere, one of Vincent Jr. S eyes actually hanging out of its socket. Shelly is sitting in the passenger seat." (38:52)
• Crime Scene Mishandling: Family members were allowed to walk around the scene, likely contaminating evidence.
  • Vincent T. Gerena Family Member: "We were all allowed to walk around and just roam…and that's when I knew something was really wrong because why else would they want you to mess up the crime scene if only to cover themselves?" (40:52)
• Police Communication Issues: Officer told families the teens were shot in the temple, later proven false.
  • Both families were misinformed, and the source of the gunshots was left ambiguous for decades. (44:38)

5. Law Enforcement Accounts & Red Flags (47:58–58:21)

• Officer Robert Hardin’s Testimony: Details his discovery of the scene, the state of the car, and the victims.
  • "The car was sitting, already picked up right in here somewhere...The kids were both laying in the seat. The girl laying on the passenger side...She was leaning back against the seat. She was dressed. He was on the driver's side..." (51:03–52:29)
• Staging & Access: Hardin found evidence some clothing was adjusted post-mortem, and crucially, he was told county deputies were at the scene earlier but failed to call it in, raising questions about law enforcement’s knowledge and intentions.
  • Hardin: "I've heard several different stories that the car parked over there behind the building on that side, and that there was deputies here before I got here." (55:48)
• Potential Motives: Speculation that the Monte Carlo could have been mistaken for a drug dealer's vehicle, complicating the motive.
  • "At the time I thought drug deal gone bad...We had a drug dealer that drove a car similar to that...I don't think the kids were involved. Anyway, the car they were driving looked like this drug dealer's car." (57:40)

6. New Leads — A Third Witness (59:15–60:28)

• Direct Contact: Another unnamed witness recounts seeing Vincent and Shelly alive at Piss Hill, then noticing a Texas State Trooper vehicle arrive, at which point they left abruptly.
  • "We went up on the hill and I seen Vincent there...then next thing I know I see a trooper car pull up...we shot out of there like about out of hell." (59:15–60:28)
• Law Enforcement’s Role: Raises further questions about who was actually around Piss Hill that night and the possible involvement or foreknowledge of law enforcement in the events.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sounds of Gunfire Amidst Thunder:
  “I hear what the sound of a thunder sounds like rumbling through the sky...and during the same time as a thunderstrike, it seemed like I was hearing gunshots.”
  — Teddy, Anonymous Witness (14:19)

• On Racial Atmosphere in Weatherford:
  "If you were not white, you were just every other, you know, slur you could be known as....never stay when it gets dark...that was known to be where the KKK would come and do their nightly things."
  — Vincent T. Gerena Family Member (27:33–28:46)

• On the Crime Scene Handling:
  "I couldn't believe, even as a child, that we're allowed to be walking around...tainting evidence, you know, just like a crime just happened here and we're allowed to walk around..."
  — Vincent T. Gerena Family Member (40:52)

• On the Impact of Loss:
  “There’s no reason why a child should have been killed. No reason in the world except through hate. That is the only thing that would kill a child. They were babies."
  — Vincent T. Gerena Family Member (38:08)

• Early Law Enforcement Theories:
  "At the time I thought drug deal gone bad...the car they were driving looked like this drug dealer's car."
  — Robert Hardin (57:40)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Teen Cruising & "Piss Hill" Explained: 02:24–06:29
• Anonymous Witness (Teddy) Gunshots Account: 14:19–16:33
• Victim Family Testimony & Racial Context: 23:40–28:46
• Night of Search & Crime Scene Discovery: 32:09–38:52
• Emotional Family Statements After Discovery: 40:28–44:38
• Officer Hardin's Scene Recollection: 47:58–56:08
• Unreported Early Deputy Presence: 55:48–56:28
• Third Witness Describes Trooper Arrival: 59:15–60:28

---

Overall Tone & Language

The episode blends the measured, investigative voice of M. William Phelps with raw, emotionally charged testimony from families still haunted by tragedy. Eyewitnesses speak in everyday language, sometimes hesitant, sometimes blunt, revealing the fog of memory and the intensity of their experience.

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Conclusion

This episode establishes Piss Hill as a central locus in the investigation, not just for its sinister history but as the intersection of teen culture, violence, and the failures of a justice system clouded by racism and secrets. New revelations from longtime residents, overlooked witnesses, and the first responding officer push the case beyond the “media story” and officially sanctioned narratives, raising the specter of deeper, systemic cover-ups. The search for the truth, forty-two years on, is far from over.

---

End of summary for “Piss Hill” — Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders S5E1.

Transcript

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Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

then you would go up to the hill, you know, and the nickname of it was Pisil.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And everybody knew it.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

Yeah, everybody knew it. Yes. Yeah, Everybody that was on the main drag, cruising around, yes, they would know where that's at.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

In every murder case, we get the media's version of events, the story law enforcement pushes out, and the narrative underneath it. All those involved actually lived. And how old are you? When were you born?

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

I was born in 1965, so I'm almost 60. I'll be 60 next month.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And you grew up in Weatherford?

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

For the most part, yeah. I grew up in Louisiana. My dad was in the military, so I grew up partially in Louisiana. I got relatives there. And then Texas. Yeah, for basically, Weatherford. Yeah, for most of my time. Yeah.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

I'm calling this source, Teddy. He doesn't want me to use his real name. Offering anonymity to those living in fear for decades allows them to speak freely. Teddy lived in Weatherford in March 1983. He was in town on the night Shelly Cauliflower and Vincent T. Gerena were out on their first car date in Vincent's father's 1979 Monte Carlo. And I understand there was an area where, quote, unquote, you would cruise.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

So, you know, this is like in the, like from. From the 70s, from. I was, you know, I cruised the main. Main drag from like 79 to around 82 ish, 83 ish. That's my high school years. And it was in South Main, Texas, which we have. You know, most Texas towns have these courthouses, and it's usually the downtown square area. But for. For us, where the. Where the cruise was was South Main. And it would go, we have I20. That's out there. It's I20 between the courthouse. If you look at a map of Weatherford, Texas is. So anywhere between the courthouse and South Main street all the way to i20. And then that area there would be the cruise.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Driving off the i20 exit ramp, you'd head straight toward downtown Weatherford, where at the end of that main drag, an elaborate courthouse building greets you welcomingly. We know the kids were last seen along that strip near 9pm to 10pm somewhere in that neighborhood. Witnesses reported seeing them at the Sonic and a few other local hotspots for kids in town along north and South Main Street. They seemed happy, in a good mood, out by themselves for the first time.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

But on the end of the cruise, where the specific cruise, there was a place they call Piss Hill. And that's where kids. It was kind of a. It's still there today. It's a like an electrical power plant type thing with a fence going around it. And then on the other side is kind of an open dirt field. It's sitting on top of kind of a hill. And that's where you would go to go hang out, you know, while you're. You cruise the main drag and then you get kind of bored with that. And then you go up on this hill, guys would take a leak or whatever, have a few drinks or whatever.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Hence the now iconic name of the place, Piss Hill.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

And then you go back to the main drag and cruise the main drag because kids would go up there and hang out. It's kind of a secluded place on top of the hill.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

You hang around Shelly and Vince and that kind of crowd.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

I didn't know them until after, you know, I think it was like only three to four days after their murder is whenever I became familiar with them. However, the night of I was cruising with a friend of mine and we were in her car and we. She happened to have a plaque Monte Carlo.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Remember Vincent borrowed his father's green Monte Carlo. We know for a fact that he picked Shelly up at Debbie Billingsley's house at 6.30pm and they left around 6.45pm Two sources I spoke to say they saw them on the Strip at 9:30pm One source claims they, they were up at Piss hill parked near 9pm

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

and so I'm cruising the main drag around. We'll say do do do about 7:30 to around midnight. Ish. Me and her are kind of cruising the main drag. And so the cars that she was in a, I'd say an 80 something model Monte Carlo. 7980, 82 Monte Carlo. And we happened to notice other people driving the similar Monte Carlo. And Vincent and Shelly, they happen to have a Monte Carlo. I thought the car was black, but I've been told it was a different color, but it was a dark color. So at night with the street lights it looked like it made the car look like it was black. So to me I've always thought it was a black Monte Carlo. Exactly the kind of car we were driving around in. But there were three Monte Carlos that look identical. The one we were driving, the one Shelly and Vincent were driving. And then there was another one. I'm not sure who was driving that one. So we did see, I did see Shelly and Vincent not knowing their names at the time. I did see their car A couple of times because everybody made that same loop going down the main drag. We make everybody make that same cruise drag going up and down and stuff like that. And every now and we pull into parking lots and talk to friends and then go back out on the main drag and drive up and down the street and I seen their car probably about time frame if you will, maybe from off and on maybe 7:30 to maybe 9:30, something like that, maybe 10:30. I'm not sure. That's kind of a time frame when I did see them driving the main drag if you will, the cruise, the south main cruise.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

So yeah.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And while you were up there, what time was it?

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

Well, we went to Piss Hill a couple of times.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

This comment is important. We are talking 42 years ago and Piss Hill was one of those places off the main drag you'd circle back to at intervals throughout a night of cruising. So the witness is coming forward to explain that they saw the kids up there, could have seen them at different times. And in a case like this a timeline becomes essential which is why I wanted to build it out right away.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

Yeah, I can't say for sure but we there from off and on we, we may have gotten something to eat. We cruised around. I know at one time around, oh, I don't know, the times are, is kind of so long ago probably about 7:30, 8:30, 9:30, we, we made a stop there. So one time we stopped and then we left and then we went back up there again maybe one or two other times. So the time frame would be from 7:30 to midnight something to 12:30 maybe. We were okay. So there's an electrical power plant up there and it's fenced in, it's still there. Today it was starting to rain. The storms were coming in and the clouds were coming in. The storms are coming in and me and lady friend I was with at the time we pulled in facing the west which we're on top of this hill and we're watching the storms kind of come into the, you know where we were at and I noticed some lightning strikes, I noticed some rain and we didn't go too far off because, because of the mud, you know, we didn't want to get into an area that was muddy and actually that little. The road there, where whatever that road's called, I can't remember offhand. On the opposite side is where I seen some trucks, four wheel drive truck type trucks driving around over there and there, there would be cars coming in and out. It's real dark up There at night and you can't see. All you can do is kind of see headlights. And only thing I can make out is like trucks in and out.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

That storm, the heavy rains and thunder, it's all going to play an important role in. In re examining this case and within what Teddy tells me. So let's go back to that night. Teddy and his girlfriend are sitting in that vehicle talking, watching the storms roll in something of a statewide pastime in the flatlands of Texas. They are just across the street from a small parking area up at Piss Hill where you could pull off for a quick stop and which is actually on Cleburne Avenue. The back of the vehicle Teddy is sitting in faces that pull off the front of the vehicle looking out into the horizon. This pull off is a section of dirt and gravel about half the size of a football field, maybe 50 square yards long, half that wide. There's a telephone pole to the back of the lot. Fields of foliage surrounding three sides with. With a slight decline heading down toward Tintop Road. And what is a power plant across the street where Teddy and his girl are sitting.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

We are, we are up on the hill facing west. And we're over there by the electrical power plant side, which was kind of had some gravel on the. Behind me. I was looking through the rear view mirrors. I knew there were vehicles coming in and out on the other side. And that area over there is kind of a. I'd say like an open parking lot, an old abandoned school or some kind of abandoned property. I'm not really sure. What was back there

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

across Cleburne Avenue from the piss hill pull off was an old school. It's nothing but rubble now. But in 1983 it was still a standing structure. Some I have spoken to have speculated that Vincent and Shelly could have actually parked over there first behind the building. Because why park with your girl right there out in the open if you had plans on getting frisky, which we have to consider could have been part of their plan. As Teddy and his girl are sitting watching the thunderstorm, he hears something.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

And I'm. Me and her are talking and I hear the rain coming in, the lightning strikes and stuff like that. So I start listening to the thunder. For whatever reason, it got kind of quiet. And all of a sudden the thunder started. Thunderstrikes were happening and then the rain would stop, then start raining, stop. And then I was listening to the thunder. And this is what caught my attention. I'm sitting here listening to the thunder and then I hear. I hear what the Sound of a thunder sounds like rumbling through the sky. And during the same time as a thunderstrike, it seemed like I was hearing gunshots. Like I would hear. Like I'd hear the thunder and then I'd hear, like a gunshot. But the gunshot was coming. We're facing west. It was coming across the street from. It sounded like it was coming behind where I was at, face on the east side of where I was at. And then I heard maybe. So the first time I'm sitting there going, well, that thunder sounds odd. That sounds weird. And so I'm kind of crouching down in the seat. The lady I was with, girl, at the time, I guess I didn't want to startle. She didn't notice it. And I think I may have said something. Hey, did you. Did you hear that? And she didn't notice it. So I said, well, I don't want to. I don't want to spook her. So she was sitting pretty low in the seat already. And so I started kind of easing down into the seat, and then I was really listening. And then I heard it again. I heard like a thunder noise.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

In Texas, you grow up around firearms, you learn to distinguish between the sound of a rifle and a pistol. You know, the sound of rolling thunder across the plains. And it sure doesn't sound like a gunshot. That noise was so distinctly different than the thunder that Teddy instinctively crouched down in his seat, thinking somebody was firing a weapon in their direction. He was certain of it.

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

And then I heard what sounded like a gunshot. And then I think I may have heard it maybe one or two more times. And then that was it.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Previously on Paper. Ghosts.

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

It's not real. This is not real. This is, you know, not my Shelly. No, you know, and it's just like a. Oh, I cannot even tell you what it feels like.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Shelly was 14. I mean, and Vincent was 16. And these were kids. And we're just trying to get answers. The family. And they've been denied any answers from Weatherford pd.

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

He stayed there for a while. One o' clock rolls around.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Two o', clock, he goes out again, looking again.

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

And the next time we saw her

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

was in the funeral home. My name is M. William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalist and New York Times best selling author of dozens of true crime books. This is season five of paper, the Texas Teen Murders.

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[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Drive along South Main street, hang a right onto Bethel Road and you come to Tintop on your left. As you drive up Tintop, you pass a field as the road begins a brief incline, maybe a quarter mile from there on the right is that massive power grid plant. The area where my source, Teddy was parked with his girl and heard what he believed to be three gunshots. It looks like anywhere, USA Dodge dealership. It occurred to me as I drove up Tintop, maybe more as a father than some dude investigating a cold case, that Vincent's dad, Vince Sr. Must have gone through hell during the early morning hours of March 26, 1983, as he set out looking for the kids after they failed to show up at Debbie Billingsley's house the previous night, Vincent Sr. Had to know in his gut something was wrong. And that hell Vincent Sr. Went through as he drove all over town looking for them would only get worse as the sun rose that early morning and there was still no word from the kids. And so you. You spent a lot of time at the T? Gerena house, am I right?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

We spent a lot of time with our family, yes.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And so talk to me about that family dynamic, the atmosphere, what you would do. Tell me a story or two of how you would show love to each other.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Well, we were obviously really close. We spent almost every single weekend together with not just one family, but, like four or five families together. We would go to the lake and we would go over to Vincent's. You know, he had a ranch. Well, I considered it a ranch because it was just, you know, a whole bunch of acreage. And they had, you know, their Brahma bulls that little Vincent was crazy for the ffa. They had moved into a small little trailer until they, you know, he made enough money to build their house. So, you know, he had his own construction or. I think it was a painting company. So we. He did a lot of work, you know, for businesses in Weatherford, and they built their house. So when they built their house, I used to go and spend more time with Lily because she was my age, and Vincent was, I think, three years older than I was.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

I spoke to one of Vincent Tigirina's family members who doesn't want me using her name for fear of being harassed or worse she grew up with. Vincent, was there on the day he left with Shelly on their first car date. And will never forget the overwhelming panic that ensued when word began to spread that the kids had not come home. I asked her what kind of kid Vincent was.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

He was very, very caring, very sweet. He was very protective, you know, of his family. He. Honestly, he was an enigma, because he was a perfect, ideal kid. You know, he helped his dad with the business. He was a straight A student. He was into martial arts. He raised those cattle. He, you know, helped raise his sisters. It was. There wasn't anything that he wouldn't do. He was just very smart and sweet person, always helping people.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Vincent Jr. Had the admiration of his peers, respected his parents and elders, and had this unassailable love for his baby sister.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

One instance, he actually built this, you know, house. My cousin was like, oh, he built a house for me. You know, she'd come over and see it, and so I went over to see it, and she wasn't lying. It was almost literally a small version of a house. It had electric, it had plumbing, but it was her clubhouse that he made for her for her birthday.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Yeah. I was told that he. He loved her so much that he took her everywhere he went.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, he did, because that was his little sister. He was protecting her always. And he just loved hanging out. He was just. He had such a big heart, you know, and so if she went, then I would go, you know, because I was, you know, with her as well. And he. He was, you know, really caring. He would do anything for her.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And did he talk about having any problems with anybody in town, in school, etc.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

No, he never did because nobody ever had a problem with him.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

What about school? How did that go for him? Did he like it? Did he. What did he want to do when he grew up?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Well, he had. He had a lot of big dreams. He was gonna help his father with his business so he could, you know, expand and be a larger business and help his father run that. That was his dream, to make sure that, you know, his family was always taken care of. So when Vincent was working, he was working alongside him to build that dream. That's why he started showing the Brahma bulls, because he wanted to make that extra money to put back into the family business. He loved martial arts. I do remember that. And I started taking martial arts just because he did, you know.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And was he good at it?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

He was really good at it. Yes.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And he could protect himself?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Yes. Or against one person? Yes.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Big kid. Was he a big kid?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

No, he was not a big kid at all. He was, I would probably say maybe 5, 4, and I would probably say about 115 pounds soaking wet. He was not a very big guy at all. He was very small stature.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Does he talk about meeting Shelly at all with the family or how does she come up?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

She came up because he had said that he was taking her out because she was afraid of Something she was afraid of an ex boyfriend or something. And so he wanted to go out and have fun with her and make sure she had a nice time and kind of like show her that there were nice guys out there.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And so she was. At the time he met her, she was scared of one of her ex boyfriends.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Yes.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And did. Did she name. Do you recall him?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

No, I wasn't there with that conversation. He just. And he wasn't one to drop names. He would just say that, you know, he didn't. She was nervous about some guy that she dated.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

For Vincent, his family, and minorities in general living in Weatherford at the time, there were other things to fear in town, seemingly much darker than an angry ex boyfriend.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

The 80s in Weatherford was more like the 50s in Weatherford or the 50s around the US it was very racially divided. When I went to school there, it was. You were pretty much ridiculed for being anything other than white. So I would be called, you know, racial names. Everyone in the Count, if you were not white, you were just every other, you know, slur you could be known as.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

I'm sorry, that. So. So that. That went on a lot there.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Oh, yes, it's known. It still goes on today. I mean, honestly, if they did not want you in the city, they would run you out, period. We were just grandfathered in because we'd been there since the 50s and 60s. And so everyone that was, you know, there from that time period, they considered as tolerable. So, you know, we were kind of left alone as long as you weren't put on the radar.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Was there violence against minorities at the time?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Oh, my gosh, yes, sir.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And talk to me a little bit about that when what, what you've heard, what you've seen.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Well, as from growing up, we used to always do like, go to the Sunshine Lake, which is, you know, now called Cartwright park, and we would go have family picnics and things like that. But we were always told, never stay when it gets dark, as. As soon as it even starts to get dark, you leave immediately. Because that was known to be where the KKK would come and, you know, do their nightly things or whatever meetings. So if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, then you would get caught in that.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And so the KKK was prevalent down there at the time?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Oh, yes. Sheriff policies and the sheriff's department and the police department.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

This changes things for me and widens the suspect pool significantly. And so you're saying there were members from law enforcement in the kkk oh yes.

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[Public Investing Representative]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public

[Public Investing Legal Disclaimer]

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[Public Investing Representative]

Complete Disclosures available at public.comdisclosures Vincent Sr.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Knew before the clock struck midnight on March 26, 1983, when his son had not come home or called, that he needed to act. He could not simply sit around and wait for someone else to do something. So he took action almost immediately. There was no question about Vincent Jr. S integrity, honesty and responsibility. If he had not come home, there was a reason beyond his control.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

And so at 10, he started calling people, you know, all of the family, hey, have you seen him? You know, in town? And, you know, we were asleep, so we hadn't seen anything, but he checked with every single person because that wasn't like him. He would not just be, you know, not there. He would have stopped somewhere to call, you know, and let him know, hey, I'm running late, or something like that. And, you know, my uncle also knew that you really don't want to be out that late because only bad things happen in Weatherford after dark.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

The T jarinas lived off of Tintop Road to the south. To get to Main street, where Vincent Sr. Knew the kids were going that night, you'd drive north on Tintop Road and go past Piss Hill. If Vincent Sr. Is out specifically looking for his son and Vincent and Shelly were parked on Piss Hill, there could be no way he'd miss seeing the vehicle as he drove by that pull off throughout the night.

[Unknown Witness at Piss Hill]

So,

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

yeah, which I always found was really strange because coming down that road where they were found you, that was the road that you came in and out from there, period. I mean, you couldn't really go any other way. So for him to come down that way and not see it the first time.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Yeah.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Indicates to me that the car was not there when he first passed. And I do remember that there was a huge thunderstorm that night because, I mean, it woke me from a dead sleep, you know, with all the, you know, thundering rumbling that was going on.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Sure.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

And at that point, a lot of my uncles and, you know, the ones that actually could drive were out looking for him. My dad went to go look for them because they were like, he's like, I'm worried. I know something's wrong.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Long past midnight, there was still no word and no sign of Vincent or Shelly. If you recall, Shelly's parents, her mother Janetta and stepfather Ronnie were away for the weekend. Neighbor, family friend, and babysitter Debbie Billingsley had taken Shelly and her sister Christie for those nights. So Jannetta and Ronnie are celebrating the their anniversary and have no idea what is going on back in town that Vincent Sr and his family are in a panic, driving around looking for the kids. Nor that Debbie, expecting Shelly to be back by 11pm is beyond concerned herself.

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

The next morning at 6 o' clock I think it was, I got a call from Debbie and she said, johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. They were going to get to go get something. She let them go get something, you know, to drink. And she said the kids didn't come home last night. And I said, what do you mean? She said, they didn't come home last night. I said, okay, I'm on my way. So we leave and I get home and we go to, you know, the gates and there were cars everywhere. And so, and I looked at Ronnie and he knew that something wasn't right. And he said, just sit here a minute. And so his mother, by the time Ronnie got out of the car, his mother's coming out of the house and she's just boohooing and shaking her arms. And I knew then something was wrong.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

When Vincent Sr. Drove past Piss Hill, of course, knowing how kids are, he searched that area to see if they had parked and perhaps lost track of time. It was a stormy night, so maybe their car broke down or they got a flat. There were so many scenarios that could have happened to make them late. But Vincent Sr. Looking carefully for his son and that Monte Carlo he had let the boy borrow, drove by Piss Hill. No one really knows what what time this was and he did not see the vehicle anywhere. This will become an important fact in my investigation later on because it's clear from those I spoke to that Vincent Sr. Was up there searching again after midnight and he never saw the vehicle. Just as the sun begins to pop over the horizon. After driving around all night long and not finding the kids, and Vincent Sr. Takes another drive along Tintop Road, once again passing Piss Hill as he is heading home somewhere around 5:30 to 6am and this time he sees the Monte Carlo. Sitting there by that telephone pole just off Cleburne Avenue, Almost in the middle of the pull off here is that unnamed T. Jarina family member.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Once again we received a call. I don't know when we received the call, but I knew as soon as the phone rang that it wasn't good. And then I just hear my mom scream and she falls to the ground. And then that's when we jump up and ask what happened. And she said that Vincent was gone. I was devastated. I mean, even after the years have passed is still haunting because there's no reason why a child should have been killed. No reason in the world except through hate. That is the only thing that would kill a child. They were babies.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

We know for certain it was near 6am Vincent Sr. Pulls up. Cleburne parks, gets out of his vehicle and approaches the Monte Carlo. There doesn't seem to be anyone around. The entire area is muddy and wet from the overnight thunderstorms. As he walks up to the driver's side door, he can see his son slumped back against the seat, blood everywhere, one of Vincent Jr. S eyes actually hanging out of its socket. Shelly is sitting in the passenger seat. There's some disagreement over how Shelly's body was found, which we will unpack later on. One version is that Shelly's head is leaning against the closed window, blood dripping down the door. But that is not how Vincent Sr. Says he found them. It's a fact. Both of these kids bodies had been staged and both were shot at point blank range. After staying at the crime scene for several minutes, Vincent Sr. Heads straight to the closest house, uses their phone, gets hold of police, then calls home and explains what he found. How is, you know, the family, what is the family doing at this time, early morning there?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

He told us where he was, where he was found, and so we all drove up to the location where the car was found and we were all allowed to walk around and just roam and just do all kinds of stuff with the policeman sitting there, you know, allowing us to, to taint everything that's around us.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

So you're all, you all are walking around the crime scene?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Basically, yes.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Do you see anything while you're up there?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Yeah, we see the huge puddle of blood that's, you know, not inside of the car. I, I was the one that found that there was a light pole there and there was blood on the light pole, which I pointed out to my mom and pull it out to the police. It was just, I couldn't believe one, even as a child that we're allowed to be walking around, you know, painting evidence, you know, just like a crime just happened here and we're allowed to walk around and people were taking pictures and, and it was just unbelievable. And that's when I knew something was really wrong because why else would they want you to mess up the crime scene if only to cover themselves?

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And there was only one cop on

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

the scene, only one that I remember. So, I mean, I was devastated. There was too much going on.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Sure, sure, understandable. So you have two teenagers found brutally murdered, shot in the head, and by 6:30am Only one cop has responded to the scene, a man you'll hear from soon. Obviously, nothing could prepare the families for the news they received that morning. When Jannetta and Ronnie Cauliflower returned home, Jannetta locked herself inside the car. She reckoned that if she didn't get out of the vehicle, she couldn't hear the news that it wasn't real.

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

So I just got down in the car, I locked the doors, and I didn't want to get out because I didn't want to hear, you know, no, no, no, everything's fine. So finally I do get out and, you know, here's these people in my house and the detectives. And

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

what Jannetta and Ronnie were told about the murders only led them to ask more questions. The most pressing being, who would want to kill two innocent children in such a violent execution style manner? What could possibly be the motive? Two police officers showed up at Janetta and Ronnie's house. At some point early that morning, both officers explained to the Cauliflowers what had happened. Without going into great detail, Johnny, she was shot.

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

Her and Vincent were both shot. And of course, I just lost it. And the other sad part is Vincent's dad is the one that found him.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Right. What did you feel like when you heard they were shot?

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

What.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

What thoughts went through you?

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

It's not real. This is not real. This, you know, and not my Shelly. No. You know, and it's just like a. Oh, I cannot even tell you what it feels like. And it feels like something has just gotten hold to your heart and just ripped it apart, crushed it. I can't even take. You know, it's just your being is just like, gone. But it's still that, you know, then you're in the shock.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

The investigation. Did you ask, did you talk about the investigation at all or what's going on? Who did this?

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

I asked him, I said, okay, I want to know how. And he said, oh, God. He said they both were shot in the left temple.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

I hate to say that this is just the first of many lies that the family was told, because lie is such a strong word. But both families, along with law enforcement and others associated with the case, echoed this same sentiment. To me, the kids were not shot in the temple, a fact that would take 42 years to be unearthed publicly after a report is dropped off, literally, on the doorstep of a family member in late 2024 by an anonymous person.

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[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

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[Albertsons/Safeway Advertiser]

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[Public Investing Representative]

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[Public Investing Legal Disclaimer]

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[Public Investing Representative]

Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

on February 14, 1983, just six weeks before the kids are murdered, another couple, Lewis and Imogene Cripps, were found murdered inside their truck, which was submerged in Lake Weatherford, 15 miles east of Tintop Road. Both had been shot to death. So now there are four murders, two couples, within a month and a half in this rather secluded, small Texas town. Robert, how you doing?

[Teddy (Anonymous Witness)]

How you doing?

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

I'm Matthew, Robert Harden. Nice to meet you, man. Getting law enforcement to go on record and talk about Shelly and Vincent's case has been a challenge. Just accessing documents, most of which should be public, has become impossible over the past year. I took my denied Freedom of Information request all the way up the chain to the Attorney General's office and was for a third time denied, even in the most basic paperwork associated with Vincent and Shelley's murders, which says something to me. So that has forced me to gather the information about the early investigation myself. On a cold, wet, extremely windy morning in February 2025, I met the first officer. Officer on the scene that morning in 1983, along with a few other people instrumental in my investigation and who you'll meet later in the podcast. We parked on Piss Hill in the exact spot where the officer came upon what was the most gruesome murder scene he had ever encountered. Robert Hardin is 87 years old. Today. He walks with a cane. His face has the lines of a man who has lived a long life and spent a considerable amount of time in the sun. He sports a gray goatee. He still smokes cigarettes, but I'll say this, the guy is as Sharp as a 30 year old. As that wind whipped and a slight drizzle began, conditions eerily similar to that morning. Robert Hardin was up here so long ago. We talked about what he found and how the call came in. Are you working the overnight shift or what?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

I work that shift.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

So what happens? A call. Who calls? Do you. Do you remember who called in?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Yeah, Vincent Cole, the boy. Daddy.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

After he found the car.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Yeah.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And so he calls in, he finds the car. When you get here, what do you see?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Well, the car was sitting, already picked up right in here somewhere, probably in front of that car.

[Unknown Witness at Piss Hill]

When.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

He was here, he called, he called police department. They sent me up here. It was a little bit before six. I don't know exactly what time now, but I got. I was supposed to get off at 6. I got the call to come up here just a few minutes before six. And the Car was parked.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

How was Vince when you got here? What was he doing?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

He was standing by the car when I got here.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Robert says it was just before 6am so that timeline seems to add up to what I have. When he arrives, he sees Vincent Sr. On the scene standing by the vehicle.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

When I got here, first thing I did was walk around the car. Of course I could see the kids were both laying in the seat. The girl laying on the driver's passenger side. And she was leaning back against the seat. She was dressed. He was on the driver's side. She was leaning more toward the door than the window.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Okay.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

On the passenger side, he was on behind the steering wheel and he was leaning back against the seat. When I walked around the car, there was along about here somewhere.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

We made our way over to an area of the lot that would have easily been seen by anyone passing by on Tintop or Cleburne. Robert Hardin searched the ground with his eyes and then pointed to a particular spot somewhere.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

There was a little pool of blood

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

right on the ground.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Yeah, on the ground. Where it did.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Where it leaked out of the car.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Where it leaked out of the car. I opened the door, I'll see if it, you know, make sure they were dead. And his. He was dressed, except his belt was undone, his zippers on his fly and. And of course I understand that that's all been changed, that Vincent redressed him after he got here. I don't have any idea what was like before, but I pulled the car up in here, got up and of course, soon as I got here and walked around the car, I called for the coroner and the detectives come out here and. And look at it. I called a coroner who land in store. And as soon as he got here, Vincent Sr. Wanted to go tell his wife, you know, what he'd found here. He didn't want to go tell her. So he asked me if I could go with him to his house. And after the coroner and everybody got here, he and I left.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Glenn Dinsmore was the coroner. What will become important later is that Robert claims Vincent's pants were down and that Shelly's head was leaning against the passenger side door window. He then followed Vincent Sr. Home so he could help explain to Mrs. Tgerina what happened. The impression I got from Robert was that Vincent Sr. Didn't want to face his wife alone and explained to her that her son had been murdered.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Okay. Then I took him home, went in, talked to his wife and I came back straight back to the police station. I didn't come Back by here, I went to the police station, checked out, and. And that was about the last. Last I had anything to do with it.

[Unknown Witness at Piss Hill]

Did they.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Did they kind of push you out of it, I mean, or.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Well, of course I was just patrolling. I wasn't an investigator.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Sure.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Or anything like that. I was just a patrolman. The only ones that I saw here when I asked her before I left were Raymond Richard and Clandensaur.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Let me ask you about the car. Now, did it look like it was staged or did it look natural?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Looked natural.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

And what was the weather like?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Raining.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

It was raining.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Not real hard, but it was raining. The ground was wet, you know, and, you know, and I. I don't know when I got here. I've heard several different stories that the car parked over there behind the building on that side, and that there was deputies here before I got here.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Really?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Yeah, hours before I got here.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Really?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Yeah.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

So deputies, they would be Parker county from the Sheriff's Department. So just to be clear, I mean, you worked for Weatherford pd, so. Okay, so the Sheriff's Department, you were. You were told what was here before you.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Yeah, but they weren't here when I got here.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Ah, interesting.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

As far as I know, there was no call ever made. So I got a call on Joe. Somebody saw witnesses, saw two sheriff's deputy sitting up there.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

Wow.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Wow. And so what Robert Hardin confirms is something I have heard from numerous sources, that even before the Weatherford Police Department went out to the scene and remember, Vincent Sr. Found the kids and called the Weatherford Police Department. Parker County Sheriff's Department deputies had already been on scene and but had left before Robert arrived. But there is no record of anyone calling it into the Sheriff's department. So how would they even know the murders took place? I asked Robert what his immediate thoughts were when he had a moment to think about the crime scene and what might have happened.

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Well, at the time I thought drug deal gone bad, you know.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

What made you think that?

[Robert Hardin (Officer on Scene)]

Well, the car that they were driving. We had a drug dealer that drove a car similar to that looked like it. And I thought, you know, my first thought was whenever, whenever I just got up here and got thinking about it, you know, that that car, somebody saw that car and stopped like a drug dealer. And they were sitting. I mean, the kids. I don't think the kids were involved. Anyway, the car they were driving looked like this drug dealer's car.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

But that initial news of what Vincent Sr. Saw when he approached the vehicle would soon change in a huge way. Even Vincent's account would be called into question when new facts later emerged. What Robert Hardin witnessed when he first arrived was not the original crime scene. I am very confident of that. The kids bodies had clearly been moved. But things become even murkier after I spoke to someone who ran into Shelley and Vincent that night up on Piss Hill and even spoke to them. What he has to say is, well, rather remarkable. Throwing things in yet another new direction.

[Unknown Witness at Piss Hill]

I had a few beers and I need to pee real bad. So we went up on the hill and I seen Vincent there in his car and I said, what are you doing man? And he goes, oh, I'm just out on a date, you know. And I was like, oh, hey, how are you young lady? Glad to meet you. And then I don't think you said probably about 10 words. And then next thing I know I see a trooper car pull up and I'm walking over to my car when the trooper car is pulling up. They pulled up behind and back then, you know, you got them big jar heads with looking white boy in a big tan cowboy hat and all that. Now they all look identical from a distance. And I was like half drunk and I didn't want to talk to him so we shot out of there like about out of hell. And then I guess I. I didn't see him go through town or nothing.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Was it a sheriff's department or. Or was it Weatherford pd Or.

[Unknown Witness at Piss Hill]

It was texas state trooper.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Check out my weekly podcast, Crossing the Line with M. William Phelps, where I delve into a new missing person and cold case murder each week, wherever you get your favorite shows. Coming up in the next episode of Paper Ghosts.

[Vincent T. Gerena Family Member]

There's just no way. There's no way you're going to stop me from ever finding out who murdered my child. I don't care. I will do it until the dying breath I have.

[Unknown Witness at Piss Hill]

It's scary stuff. It wouldn't be fair to say that we didn't have. I mean, we obviously had a crime scene that was worked out there on that, but with, with the amount of time that it lapsed, you almost experienced a similar thing there. Right? Because the crime scene wasn't handled in 1983 the way it would be handled today.

[Janetta Cauliflower (Shelly's Mother)]

Until one day I come in and I say, okay, what's going on? He said, well, Johnny, we've been told we can't question that. It's the mayor. Something to do with the mayor.

[M. William Phelps (Investigative Journalist)]

Paper Ghosts Season 5 is written and executive produced by me, M. William Phelps, script consulting by iHeartMedia executive producer Kathryn Law. Production by Tak Boom Productions Audio mastering and mixing by Brandon Dickert. The series theme number 442 is written and performed by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney.

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