B (18:20)

In the world of true crime. The real story isn't always in the headlines, it's in the evidence. I'm Brandi churchwell, host of 13Zero podcast, and I'm here to take you past the news cycle and straight into the courtroom. Every week I'll break down the investigation, the prosecution, the defense and everything that unfolds beyond the jury box. We'll examine every testimony, every exhibit and every hidden motive. Listen to 13th Juror wherever you get your podcasts.

A (18:56)

A deputy with the Owyhee County Sheriff's Office told the press that Claude Dallas Jr. Wasn't your ordinary poacher. He was armed, dangerous and had expert knowledge of the landscape in which he'd carried out the killings. The 30 year old was described by many folks as a loner with survivalist skills who didn't like being around people. He would spend most winters by himself in the desert living off the land and when the weather got warmer he took truck driving jobs or worked at farms to make ends meet. One article I read by Stephen Anderson and Mark Crane for the Idaho Statesman explained that Claude had lived along the Idaho Nevada border for about 10 years prior to the murders, so the dude knew it like the back of his hand. A deputy even went as far as characterizing Claude as a self professed mountain man who had a lot of experience in the outdoors. George Nielsen's brother told the Idaho Statesman in part, Claude's live the kind of life most of us only wish we could live. He knows the cowboy life. He knows about open country and taking care of himself. He's an educated guy. How many men do you know who could winter alone out on that desert and survive? End quote. Inside a trailer Claude had in Paradise Hill, authorities found a bunch of books about fashioning gun silencers, combat ammunition and survival skills, and they later learned that In October of 1980, a few months before the murders, he'd purchased an AR15 automatic rifle and a canoe in Sandpoint, Idaho. The gun was accounted for at his trailer, but the canoe was not. And it also wasn't among his belongings at his trapping compound, which prompted officials to suspect that he'd probably hidden it somewhere and was likely using it to evade capture and stay off the land where he could be more easily tracked. UPI News unearthed an old issue of National Geographic Society's magazine the American in Life and Legendary, which featured two color photos of a much younger Claude living his best cowboy life at a ranch in Paradise Valley, which I think only further cemented the image of him being a well equipped person who could survive in the harsh landscape. So in light of all that information, Investigators strongly suspected Claude would be very difficult to find in Idaho and Nevada's remote terrain, if, in fact, that's where he was still hiding out. To make matters even more challenging, People from the region who knew Claude Were openly expressing that they hoped he wouldn't be caught. They sided with him in the narrative that he'd been defending himself against the law. Now, as wild as that may seem to some of you, I've been doing this long enough to know that oftentimes in remote areas like this, where locals feel a strong sense of pride and ownership for the land, they believe they have the right to live off of anti regulation sentiments with regards to wildlife restrictions can run deep. So it's not necessarily surprising that folks in this part of the country were rooting for Claude despite the fact that he stood accused of murdering two men in cold blood. A spokesman for Idaho's fish and game department told the times news that the double murder was the first time the department had lost personnel enforcing the state's fish and game laws due to a violent crime. The only losses the agency had documented prior to Conley and Bill's murders Were two officers who died in an automobile accident and a plane crash. There had been some previous incidents of people threatening game wardens with firearms or assaulting them, but nothing as serious as murder. A sheriff's deputy at the time told the Idaho statesman that the loss of two game wardens was a major blow to the fish and game department. At that time, he said, there were only about 10 officers who worked in the southwest part of the state, so losing two at the same time was devastating. As the manhunt for Claude dragged on, time seemed to move in slow motion, and the conditions for searching only became that much more challenging. For example, authorities attempted to search a reservoir in the built creek mountains, but it was completely frozen over. Still, a diver descended into the icy body of water to check for Claude or anything that might be tied to him. And you guessed it, nothing useful came from that. As reality began to set in that Claude was essentially a ghost, for lack of a better term, Everyone began to develop an opinion about the elusive trapper and his origin story. According to an Idaho department of law enforcement agent who'd interviewed locals and an article by Charles Ettlinger, Claude had just shown up one day in either 1969 or 1970 in Humboldt County. He was riding a horse and driving some pack mules. It was like he'd just materialized out of nowhere, and there Was so much mystery around him. Stephen Anderson and Mark crane explained in articles for the Idaho Statesman that by January 11, 1981, authorities working the murder investigation were considering disbanding the manhunt because no sign of Claude had surfaced. Investigators strongly suspected he was on foot and managing to stay one step ahead of them while living somewhere in the vast mountainous landscape. They even speculated that he'd holed up in a cave or an abandoned mine shaft. Bill Pogue's only brother, Ed Pogue, told the Idaho statesman that despite all the efforts to locate his brother's remains being unsuccessful so far, he vowed to never stop searching. And it seemed that law enforcement welcomed Ed's help with open arms. They permitted him to go out on searches and even sit in on meetings about the manhunt. Ed explained that he was determined to see his brother's killer brought to justice, and he knew that was going to require patience and endurance. He told the newspaper, quote, I'm not going to take the law into my own hands. I'll do whatever the sheriff says to do, but if he's spotted, you know, I'll do whatever I can to help bring him in. I'm ready to wait as long as it takes. He's bound to resurface somewhere, and that's what I'll be waiting for, end quote. By January 14, though, law enforcement's determination was not as resolute as Ed's. Formal ground searches for Claude had scaled back significantly. The task of trying to locate Bill Pogue's remains continued, though, and the sheriff of Owyhee county told upi that, similar to what Ed Pogue had previously expressed, it was a waiting game when it came to finding their prime suspect. The sheriff said in reference to Claude, quote, my personal opinion is that he is not very far from home. We just have to figure out what part of his backyard he's in, end quote. Around that same time, reporter Ellen Marks briefly got ahold of Claude's father, Claude Dallas Sr. At his home in Myrtle Beach, S.C. and dad said that he was really heartbroken to learn about the murders his son was accused of committing. But he and his wife still planned to stand by their son and were very worried about his safety. When asked, Claude Sr. Denied being in contact with his son and stated that the family had spoken with the FBI and local law enforcement in their area about the situation. In that same newspaper article, A little bit more information about Claude Jr. S origin story and family makeup was revealed. And it turns out he was one of a handful of siblings, four brothers, two half sisters and one sister. They were scattered all over the country. And it's unclear from the source material if they were in close contact with or had any relationship whatsoever with Claude. But I did see some coverage that explained at least one of his brothers would eventually support him. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't have all the details there, but I don't think it was a situation of no contact, for example. Anyway, by January 17, 12 days after the murders, authorities decided to officially disband the search for Bill's body. The sheriff told the press that a tremendous amount of resources had been expended by that point and nothing had been found. The only new information they had to work with were recent findings from Conley Elms autopsy. The ME Confirmed the version of events Jim Stevens had already explained, which was that.357 and.22 caliber firearms had been used in the murders. The larger caliber gun had fired two rounds into Conley's chest, and the smaller caliber one had been used for the headshot. The sheriff at the time told the press that the use of two weapons and the specific area where Conley had been shot in his head were indicative of how a trapper would kill an animal to sure it was dead. An experienced trapper would commonly deliver two shots to the body and then another one with a small caliber weapon like a.22 near the back of the ear. With not much else to do except keep an eye out for Claude Dallas Jr. And hope someone would come forward with information. Authorities, residents and loved ones of the fallen officers organized a joint memorial service to honor their lives. This happened around the same time the search for Bill's body was called off, and around 400 people gathered at a park near the Fish and Game Department's office to remember Conley and Bill's legacies. One of Bill's colleagues told the press that he was a gifted wildlife officer who had an almost expert knowledge of birds. He was dedicated to his work and his family. And to my surprise, Bill had actually dodged death a few times. Before his eventual murder. He had been in two nearly fatal car accidents, stranded in poor weather conditions that could have killed him, and. And he'd even been bitten by a venomous snake. Conley was eulogized as an equally dedicated law enforcement officer whose friends remembered him as a teddy bear of a person and an avid angler. A few days after the memorial service, a committee for the Idaho State senate approved a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest in the case. And shortly after that, a District judge signed a court order declaring Bill Pogue deceased. I presume since his remains had not been found and it was unlikely in anyone's mind that he was still alive, this move was purely a formality. It allowed his loved ones to claim things like life insurance, workman's compensation, and other post death benefits. In early February 1981, despite Claude still being a fugitive, the Humboldt county district attorney began preparing the case for a grand jury. He wanted to make sure he had all his ducks in a row. And he wanted to explore potential charges for Claude's alleged accomplices. You know, folks like George and Liz Nielsen and even Jim Stevens. Because there was little doubt that had those three people not done what they'd done to assist Claude, he'd likely be in law enforcement's custody. And more importantly, Bill Pogue's body might have already been found. While the grand jury prep was underway, volunteer searches for Bill continued. Tidbits of info about his alleged killer's whereabouts trickled in, too, including reported sightings of Claude as far away as Alaska and Maine. But nothing panned out. By mid March, Claude's parents had hired a lawyer to look into the case and investigate the alleged crimes their son would be charged with if and when he was found. A few weeks after that, in April, reward posters advertising an increased reward of $20,000 were distributed nationwide and in Canada. The flyer showed two variations of the fugitive trapper's appearance. There was an actual picture of Claude that showed him without a beard. And next to that image was a composite sketch of what he'd look like with a fuller beard and wearing a wide, brimmed hat. Nearly a year after that, in March 1982, Idaho's then governor asked the FBI to add Claude to their 10 most wanted list, but was told that wouldn't happen until one of the fugitives who was already on the list was captured. However, the universe must have been favoring the authorities, because about a month later, on Sunday, April 18, investigators got what they'd been waiting more than a year for. 10 most wanted lists be damned. Claude Dallas Jr. Surfaced all on his own in a blaze of gunfire.

B (30:49)

In the world of true crime, the real story isn't always in the headlines. It's in the evidence. I'm Brandi churchwell, host of 13Zero podcast, and I'm here to take you past the news cycle and straight into the courtroom. Every week, I'll break down the investigation, the prosecution, the defense, and everything that unfolds beyond the jury box. We'll examine every testimony, every exhibit and every hidden motive. Listen to 13th Juror wherever you get your podcasts.

A (31:25)

According to articles in the Idaho Statesman, a few days before April 18, 1982, Humboldt and Owyhee county authorities, the Idaho Department of Law Enforcement, and agents from the FBI received information from an anonymous tipster which led them to check out a trailer about 50 miles south of where Claude's trapping compound had been located at the time of the murders. The Humboldt county sheriff told the newspaper that when 18 to 20 members of law enforcement approached that trailer around 5:45pm they hollered out who they were and right away a man wearing military style fatigues who they knew to be Claude Dallas Jr. Jumped through a glass window, got into a pickup truck and hauled tail across the desert. Authorities quickly pursued him in their vehicles and via helicopter, and during the chase Claude shot at officers multiple times and they returned fire. At some point Claude was shot in his foot and ended up giving up. When he was taken into custody, investigators found a.22 caliber handgun and a rifle with him. They also noticed that the clothing he was wearing was quite dirty. In addition to arresting Claude, authorities also arrested a 35 year old man who owned the trailer he'd been staying in and charged that guy with harboring a fugitive. According to coverage by the Idaho Statesman, the two men had known one another several years before the murders, which I think just goes to show the significance of the point I made earlier, which is that there were some die hard Claude sympathizers in that part of Idaho and Nevada who were willing to aid him even though they knew he was wanted for two murders. After being treated at a local hospital for his gunshot wound, Claude was transported to jails in Reno and Sparks, Nevada to await his arraignment in federal court. During his time on the run, he'd used the alias Jack James Chappell and had actually managed to hold a job at a farm equipment manufacturer in January, February and March of 1981, which was right after the murders happened. After leaving that job due to an altercation with a co worker, he disappeared. The sheriff of Owyhee county told the Idaho Statesman that he suspected Claude had likely spent several months traveling all around the country, but then in the fall of 1981 had made his way back to the Idaho Nevada border because that's the area that Claude knew best and had the most supporters. When law enforcement searched the trailer the trapper had been hiding out in, they seized a bunch of ammunition, traps for animals, gun holsters, a shotgun shotgun, two rifles and five handguns. As well, as a bunch of other personal items they believed belonged to Claude. There were also 10 other guns in the dwelling, but those were tied to the owner. Interestingly, among the firearms suspected of being Claude's, there was a.357 Magnum, a.22 caliber rifle, and a.22 caliber handgun, which were all the same calibers as the murder weapons. Within days of apprehending Claude and going through all this evidence, the charges for harboring a fugitive were dismissed for the guy who owned the trailer. I know, big eye roll there. But I presume since Claude was the big fish, that authorities were focused on nabbing the other man who assisted him just wasn't a huge priority at the time. Anyway, by May 9, Claude was in custody at the Canyon County Jail awaiting a preliminary hearing. And reporters had done a lot of digging into his background, which, like it or not, was pretty interesting. He'd grown up in Ohio, but moved around in his youth. One of his former high school teachers and a classmate described him as a kind of shy, unmemorable, unassuming boy who was really into the outdoors and very interested in moving to the western part of the country. One day, not long after he'd arrived in Idaho, the government came calling when the Vietnam War draft started. According to reporting by Charles Ettlinger, Claude dodged the draft and was indicted by a federal grand jury in the summer of 1973. However, by the time he got indicted, the draft had already ended, and when his case made it to court, his lawyer managed to get the charge dismissed. At his arraignment for Conley and Bill's murders in May 1982, Claude pleaded not guilty to the charges against him, which by that point included two counts of first degree murder, resisting arrest, concealing evidence, and use of a firearm during the commission of a felony. When his trial got underway a few months later on September 15, it took place in Caldwell, Idaho, because the presiding judge had granted the defense's request for a change of venue to get the case out of Owyhee County. If convicted, Claude faced capital punishment. Interestingly, even though so much time had passed and Claude was finally in custody, no one had managed to figure out where Bill Pogue's body was. His brother, Ed Pogue, continued to search the unforgiving terrain of Humboldt County. But even with the case in court, the mystery of Bill's final resting place remained unresolved. Some of the more crucial witnesses to testify at trial were Jim Stevens and George Nielsen, the folks who were considered the state star witnesses. From what I gathered reading the source Material, it doesn't appear that either of those men were ever charged in relation to the murders. Instead, they turned state's evidence. Not to mention, Jim had undergone a polygraph in January 1981 and passed. So investigators were confident he was not personally involved in the shootings anyway. When it was George's turn to take the stand, he told the court that he considered Claude a close friend. And after he and Jim Stevens showed up at his house after the shooting, asking him to help get rid of the game warden's body, he went along with it and provided them with his truck, digging tools, and fuel. He also admitted to giving Claude a head start and provided him with $100 to go on the first run. Similarly, Jim's testimony covered a lot of what folks already knew, which was that he'd been at the campsite at the time of the killings. He told jurors that he believed Bill Pogue had been shot before he'd even had a chance to reach for his service weapon. Jim said that when he'd asked Claude why he shot the game wardens, Claude's response had been, quote, I swore I'd never be arrested again, never be handcuffed, end quote. But when it was the defense's turn to present their findings of things to the jury, they went all in on the self defense claim. And the person who they put on the stand to talk about that in detail was none other than Claude Dallas Jr. Himself. He testified that he felt certain Bill Pogue and Conley Elms would have killed him on January 5, 1981, if he had not acted first. His version of events was that Bill had been acting very aggressively from the get go, and he'd threatened to shoot Claude if he didn't cooperate. So in an act of pure fear, according to Claude, he said he gunned down both officers when he thought he saw Bill reach for his service weapon. During his time on the stand, Claude revealed the location of Bill's remains in Nevada. And by that afternoon, while the trial was still ongoing, investigators went directly to the area in the desert where he said Bill was. In a shallow grave about three feet deep, they discovered leg bones, a pair of boots with lower leg bones and feet bones still in them, and a human skull. There were also signs of animal activity at the site, and several remains were scattered nearby in the landscape. One of which had a piece of trouser material on it that was green, like the uniform fishing game wardens wore. Interestingly, where Bill had been buried was an area that searchers had previously combed. But because his remains had been covered up, searchers never saw them. But even with Bill's remains found, jurors ultimately did not convict Claude of first degree murder. Instead, on Wednesday, October 20, when the verdict came in, they found him guilty of two counts of voluntary manslaughter, obstructing or concealing evidence and using a firearm during the commission of a crime. The foreman of the jury told the Idaho Statesman afterwards that it came down to the order and number of shots Claude had fired. He said that if Claude had not delivered the final headshots to Conley and Bill, the jury likely would have acquitted him. But because he'd made sure the victims were dead after initially shooting them in self defense, the jury had to go with the voluntary manslaughter verdict. The maximum amount of time Claude was facing in prison was 50 years and six months. The prosecutor who argued the case for the state was super disappointed in the verdict and told the press, I thought it was first degree murder or I wouldn't have prosecuted Dallas for first degree murder. I think he lied on the witness stand. The Claude Dallas who was in the courtroom and the Claude Dallas at the shooting scene are two different individuals. I think the jurors believed who they saw and heard on the witness stand. No one will be able to convince me otherwise. This is a verdict the jury will have to live with, end quote. Obviously, family members of the victims were disappointed too. Depogue, Bill's wife, told reporter John Acola that it was ironic how the court had failed her husband, who'd been such a law abiding person. Conley Elms, sister in law, expressed her outrage about the verdict too. And one of Bill Pogue's daughters also told the press that she thought Claude should have gotten more of a punishment. She expressed that she thought the jurors likely sympathized more with Claude. Bill's brother Ed told the Associated Press that he believed the jury was ignorant and he didn't like that the defense had painted his brother as an overly zealous lawman who'd provoked Claude. Ed told the publication, quote, my brother was a professional law enforcement officer. He was as good a peace officer as anybody will ever find. He's one of the last like him. As far as I'm concerned, this thing isn't over yet. End quote. And Ed's words could not have been more true. For several weeks after his conviction, Claude was allowed to be out on bond until his sentencing hearing. At that Proceeding in early January 1983, a judge ruled that he would serve 30 years in prison with a minimum of 10 years behind bars before he'd be eligible for parole. A few months after being shipped off to prison, though, Claude got in trouble for allegedly colluding with another inmate to wait for it, try to escape. Reportedly, Claude and this other guy were loitering in a section of the medium security prison compound that they shouldn't have been. And so Claude, the warden, suspected they were trying to hide out there until it got dark so they could make a run for it. For that offense, Claude was put in disciplinary detention, but he later disputed the accusation and actually ended up filing a lawsuit against the prison, which was eventually settled. And yeah, I wish I could say that was that. But no. This story has just one more twist. Claude got another infraction in prison for having contraband items in his cell. And then In March of 1986, after having a post conviction appeal denied, he finally did it. He escaped from prison. According to an article in the Idaho Statesman, Claude had been seen at the ball field at Idaho State Penitentiary around 7:35pm on Sunday, March 30, 1986, when out of nowhere, he was just gone. Prison staff conducted an inmate count a few hours later around 10pm and he was nowhere to be found. So they looked at who'd last visited him, and that's when they realized a woman from Nevada had been the last person to speak with him. According to the most credible coverage I could find, Claude had used wire cutters to get through two chain link fences by the prison's administration building before making a run for it. The woman who'd visited him last was questioned, but it doesn't seem that led anywhere, at least not right away. Because for almost another year, his whereabouts remained unknown, despite being added to the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list in May 1986. Finally, though, after nearly a year on the lam, on March 8, 1987, Claude's luck ran out. He was tracked to Riverside, California, where FBI agents took him into custody. At the time of his arrest, he was outside a convenience store and living in a motel across the street under the alias Al Schrank. While he'd been on the run, he'd kept company with a few people and gotten access to a vehicle. And yeah, this is the part of the episode where you'd probably think, I'm going to tell you how he was extradited back to Idaho and then convicted of prison escape. But nope, that's not how this one ends either. In September 1987, an Idaho jury acquitted Claude of all the charges related to his escape from prison. He'd contended at trial that the only reason he'd felt compelled to escape was because he said the prison guards had threatened to kill him. Sound like a familiar defense? He admitted under oath that he'd planned the whole thing and been assisted by some of his supporters on the outside, but he refused to provide any names or information about who those accomplices were. I know this part of the case was bananas to me, but don't get too mad. Even though Claude was acquitted on the prison escape charges, he was still required to finish serving time for killing Bill and Conley. So he was sent back to prison for that case. And about 17 and a half years later, after receiving eight years credit for good behavior, he was released from prison on February 6, 2005. Where he is now is anyone's guess. I couldn't find much out there about his life after prison except in some online web forums, which I don't give a ton of credibility to. What I'm more concerned with is remembering the legacy and contributions to society his two victims, Bill Pogue and Conley Elms, made in their lifetimes. Like I said at the start of this episode, there are a number of books, podcasts, television, movies, and publications out there about this case. But not many of them focus on the men in uniform who died at the hands of Claude Dallas Jr. And I don't think it should be that way. According to coverage in an episode of the FBI Files, Conley and Bill's widows spearheaded the construction of a fallen officer's memorial, which still stands today in Idaho, and it's known as the Idaho Peace Officers Memorial. A lingering question about this crime that few people have ever been able to answer is why? Why did Conley and Bill have to die the way they did? Some folks, I imagine, chalked the answer up to Claude being territorial and afraid of getting fined for illegal harvests. But others expressed in interviews that they believed it was, in a strange way, an almost fitting end to commemorate Bill and Conley's devotion to their work. For example, one of Bill's colleagues stated to the press that it was almost appropriate that his friend's final moments were in the wilds of Owyhee county simply because of how much Bill loved the land. Bill's son Steve also emphasized to reporter Ellen Marks that his dad was in love with nature, especially Idaho, and he'd found peace knowing that his dad was doing what he loved in the place he loved. The associate director of Idaho's Fish and Game department put it this way. The Lord needed a couple of good conservation officers, and he picked two of the best. I'm confident they'll do as good a job for him as they did for us. End quote. Park Predators is an audio Chuck production. You can view a list of all the source material for this episode on our website, parkpredators.com and you can also follow Park Predators on Instagram arcpredators. I think Chuck would approve.