A (3:05)

Did you see some of them went.

B (3:06)

Through the replies, but Charlie Kirk is definitely up there.

A (3:11)

That's one.

B (3:13)

Epstein is definitely up there.

A (3:14)

That's two.

B (3:15)

And I'm going to guess that Gaza stuff's up there.

A (3:19)

It was Iran is what got, what got number three. And you know, I, I kind of think in a weird way they, you know, Gaza and Iran, at the risk of sounding like an anti Muslim bigot, they kind of feel like the same story, you know what I mean? Like, there's just because it's obviously it's Israeli wars with US backing slash involvement and, you know, so it seems like those are, are together. But essentially what I heard the most from people was Charlie, Kirk, Epstein and Iran. And that, to me, I think is pretty hard to argue with. Like, here's the good news.

B (3:56)

Sure, sure. Epstein was a hoax. So. And we've got a million.

A (4:01)

Never happened.

B (4:02)

A million documents proving that it was a hoax.

A (4:05)

Yes.

B (4:05)

And Donald Trump already totally took care of Iran and if for some reason he didn't, he'll just retake care of it. So really, two of the three shouldn't even be on the list.

A (4:15)

Well, also on issues here, I just got off the phone with the President and he informed me that Gaza is a hoax. And I don't mean, I don't mean the war, I mean the place. No such place. Doesn't exist. Never did exist. No one's from there. There's nothing next to, there's nothing in between Egypt and Israel. It's just Egypt and Israel. That's it.

B (4:39)

Where am I going to get my rubble order from? I put a nice order in and I'm kind of expecting shipment on that.

A (4:46)

No, you got scammed, dude. No place. Yeah, it's. Look, I mean, there's, you could be a little bit more specific with, with some of these things. Like, I think that the, you, you could say like the Trump administration's mishandling their cartoonish mishandling of the Epstein story is, is really the story, you know, like that's, and I think honestly. And look, you can make an argument here, there are other things, but I think you could make a really strong argument that that is actually the biggest story of the year. Because in a lot of ways the biggest story of this year is the collapse of, of the Trump administration and the, in every sense in the collapse of his base. The collapse of like even if you, if you view what we've been, you know, referring to as like the Civil War or whatever on the right, if you, if you, if you look at all that, that's just one more, that's just one more indication of like, oh yeah, the Trump coalition has fallen apart. The Trump administration has fallen apart. The Trump media apparatus has fallen apart. Half of them have. Half the, half the media figures who got Donald Trump elected don't like Donald Trump anymore and are totally fed up with this administration and nothing. You know, the thing about the Epstein story is that it was like the biggest crack up in that it was the thing that damaged Trump's aura and reputation the most. And as I've mentioned many times on the show, I think in many ways, like, if I had to pick, and this is, it's almost cheating because I'm not saying like one specific topic, but if I had to say, the biggest theme or meta story of 2025 has got to be that like Donald Trump, Donald Trump came into the year, he assumed, was it 20 days into 2025, Donald Trump assumed the presidency. He's, he comes in, we're 20 days into the year. And, and Donald Trump is the greatest political comeback story in American history. It was, you know, it was the biggest story of 2024, right, was that he came back, put this campaign together and ultimately won, put a whole new coalition together, a whole new media apparatus together. And as I've mentioned before, probably the most impressive part of all of it was that he was able to win over the culture and the youth. Two things that would have seemed completely impossible eight years earlier in 2016 when he first won, or in 2020 when he ran for reelection, which would have seemed impossible that Donald Trump could have won over the culture and the youth. It would have, it would have seemed criminally insane to even believe that that could be possible. And yet he did that. That's how we came in. And man, like did two 2025 for Donald Trump, Rob. It came in like a lion and is going out like a lamb. I mean, now after one year later and Donald Trump is just left Humiliated. He, you know, just in every sense. And to me it's hard to say anything's a bigger story than that.

B (8:08)

Well, the one nice thing is that the Trump evangelicals have died out and that is thanks to Donald Trump declaring Epstein a hoax and also declaring that we're living in a great economy. And I think both of those things and also the continuous support for Israel, I think those were three big ones that the people that were all on board with every Trump's lie all the time. And we're gonna fight people like me tooth and nail. Even if you're like, I don't feel like having a conversation with you and about tariffs and just non stop relent. No, he's bringing back factory jobs. Do you not want Americans to have factory jobs? What's wrong with you? Are you anti American? Do you not like Americans having factory jobs? And thanks to Donald Trump's disastrous year and declaring it a hoax and that the economy was great and then continuously sending support to Israel, at least those people have kind of mellowed out.

A (9:03)

Yeah, yeah. You know, I think that it's really, it's gotta be, you know, around. I feel like things for Donald Trump, it's almost like, like you could map out the year and go, they were getting, it got worse by the month. Like every month was worse than the previous month. But if you, if you can kind of remember back like around let's say like April or May of this year, it was like, well you know, Donald Trump, he, he went to Saudi Arabia, I can't remember what where it was, was it the UAE or Saudi Arabia where he gave that great speech where he was blasting the neocons. He had been attempting to negotiate in Ukraine, including chastising Zelensky. When he was here in the Oval Office, he was still funding Gaza and he was still funding everything Israel did. But there was kind of this idea that Witkoff and the boys were trying to push a ceasefire and that maybe there'd be some pressure on them. And what really happened was like over the summer it was like a back to back was the war in Iran and the covering up of the Epstein files, like they both hit like boom, boom. And it just, it, it really just enormously damaged Donald Trump and just trip. It caused tremendous division within his base and, and basically that's been the case ever since. And it's just gotten worse and worse and more pathetically embarrassing ever since then. And then of course you're absolutely right that what also really started damaging him is just that, you know, you Get. And this is always the case with. With presidents, like when Barack Obama. So if you remember the. The economy crashes in. In late 2008. So it's late in the year in 2008 when the economy crashes, Barack Obama comes in in January as the president. Now by March or April or May, nobody's blaming Obama for the economy because, like, obviously we just had the worst financial crash in 100 years. So, like, you got to give this guy some time to cook or whatever, you know, but, like, by the end of that year, by the next year, you know, you hit this thing where there's, you know, I remember, like, in the second year of Obama's first term, so two years into him being president when they would still be trying to blame the Bush economy, and all of a sudden everyone was like, yeah, dude, you can't do that anymore. And so I think there's just something where Donald Trump, especially because he was claiming to be making all these bold moves by the second half of this year, is when people started kind of holding him responsible for the economy. And, yeah, I mean, his response was, as we've said, it was the exact same thing as Joe Biden. I mean, the identical ridiculous propaganda that Joe Biden just the previous year, Rob, in 2024, had been running on the entire year, which is just that. Why is the economy so bad? Because it's not. And you're stupid. And you haven't seen these charts and graphs that tell you it's actually really good. Just a horrible losing message. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Sheath Underwear, the underwear of legends, longtime sponsor of the the Problem podcast, and the best pair of boxer briefs you will ever get, you will ever wear. They're the only underwear that I wear. I have a. An underwear drawer full of sheath underwear and nothing else, because it's just that much better, that much more comfortable than any pair of boxer briefs I've ever had. So go check them out@sheath underwear.com support a longtime sponsor of this podcast, and get yourself the best pair of boxer briefs you've ever had while you're at it. And make sure when you go to sheathunderwear.com use the promo code problem20. That'll also get you 20% off your entire order. Sheathunderwear.com promo code problem20 for 20% off. Let's get back in the show.

B (13:08)

Yeah, certainly. You just gotta at least get out there and lie that your plans are about to start working. And don't you worry that factory job is coming for you. I understand that it's tough now, but I'm working on that factory job for you. But if someone's out there and they're not doing well and you just tell them no, it's actually really great. What do they have to look forward to? You're telling them that their shit life is great.

A (13:30)

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's just a. It's. It's a terrible. I mean, it's just. Just really, really bad politics and, you know, but the thing is that you get to a point where there's just like, what else can you do? What else can you do? You know, tell them the truth is to admit that you've screwed over the. The country. And so he's not going to do that. One of the other things, I guess some other. I kind of felt like maybe this is. I don't know. I mean, I'm. I'm not sure this is exactly right, but broad strokes. I do think there's. There's something to this, because obviously the story of which is a major story, but the story of kind of Israel tremendously damaging their reputation. It was. Is a two. Is the last two years, I guess the last two plus years. Right. So the last three months of 23, all of 24 and 25. But if you could break that up into 2024 and 2025, and like, this is an exact, like, part. Some of this was happening last year. But I almost feel that In a way, 2024 was the year that Israel got exposed, and 2025 was the year that the Israeli lobby really got exposed. Like, and obviously there were some of us who were talking about the Israel lobby, you know, in 24 and 23 and 22. But there's a. It just seems to me like this year, what really got exposed, like, like in 2024, people were like, oh, what Israel does to the Palestinians is horrible. Like, you know, you see what they're doing right now. Wow, this is real horrible. Then you look into it and you go, oh, they've been doing horrible shit to them for, like, a very, very long time. That, sure. Like, in 2024, Israel kind of lost the moral high ground. I was like, yeah, you can't sit here and talk to me about how terrible, you know, these terrorists are. Like, look at you guys. You guys are a bunch of terrorists. But this year, what got more exposed was that like, oh, hey, there's this whole group of like, like this whole giant apparatus. And this is essentially What Mearsheimer and Waltz are writing about in the book, that there's this whole apparatus that includes, like, organizations like, you know, APAC and the, you know, Washington Institute for Near East Policy and the American Enterprise Institute and the ADL and all the, you know, there's like all these, like, organizations and then there's all these different, like, groups of people, neoconservatives and different think tanks and then different, like, commentators, the Ben Shapiro, Barry Weiss's, Alan Dershowitz is, you know, Mike Huckabees, Ted Cruz. There's all these people who are like. Like a Pavlonian dog. Or is that the right thing? Am I saying? But, you know, it's almost like they can hear a whistle that nobody else can hear or something like a dog whistle, where, like, they are. They are completely animated by this one issue, which is support for a foreign government. And I feel like that has been more exposed in 2025 than anything than I could have ever imagined it. It would have been when I first. When I first read that book and started thinking things. But that, to me seems like a major, major difference. You know, like, I just saw someone was sharing on a. On I saw on Twitter that they've. Ben Shapiro has lost an average of a thousand subscribers every day for the last like, three months or something like that. Like that whole thing, you know, you look like a guy like Mark Levin. It was almost crazy to say, but like, Rob, you remember, you do the great impression. You remember, he was like, respected on the right wing at one point. Ben Shapiro was respected on the right wing at one point. Barry Weiss was even like, respected in the middle, kind of. And like, that's. Seems to me like it's just over.

B (17:24)

Well, I think there are certain things that you can't lie away. And we hit that threshold with COVID where things just stop making sense. Such as you can go into a restaurant wearing a mask, but once you sit down, you could take it off. There were certain things that just so defied common sense that nobody could just go, oh, yeah, this all makes sense. Trust the science. This makes sense. And I think we've hit a threshold with what Israel's been doing in Gaza and with the images coming out that if people are seeing it most, I think most individuals look at that and go, no one should be allowed to do that. And then when you continuously say that Israel's our most important ally and you make grand claims, like the most moral or that ridiculous claim. RFK Jr said at one point that the Gazans are the Most pampered. When you make these just. Yeah, but when you just make.

A (18:12)

Forgot about that one.

B (18:13)

So don't align with reality, people start wondering, why are people so egregiously lying to me about this one topic? And why are they censoring to this extent that I'm not even allowed to ask questions, or I'm not allowed to say, hey, this doesn't look right. And then you get called anti Semitic. And when they so overly play their hands, you know, for censorship or for a narrative, it just kind of channels to people, oh, something's up here.

A (18:39)

Yeah, 100%, that's exactly right. And. And I guess it kind of, in a way that. That kind of blends into another story that I would say is like one of the major stories of 2025 is that. And not that this, obviously, this is something that had been building and developing for many years, but it did feel like, if you. You remember, we both talked a lot about. What was very interesting, I think, from our perspective, because we've followed particularly this. This development very closely, is that it was after the election in 2024. So after November 2024, the entire corporate media admitted it. Like, they admitted that they weren't the mainstream anymore. Now, that had been the case for a while, but it was like, it was very stark that after Kamala Harris lost, like, there was this huge, you know, like, like, test of, like, okay, the entire corporate media is going to get behind Kamala Harris and say she's joy and hope and Obama and she's this amazing candidate, and she's going to get all this money and all this funny. And then the entire, you know, broadly speaking, the entire Internet, you know, media got all behind Trump. And then when Trump wins in a. In a blowout, it's like, okay, so now we know who the real mainstream is and who the real, you know, alternative is. And for years, obviously, Joe Rogan had had a much bigger audience than cnn, but CNN would still pretend that they were cnn. This is cnn. And that's just, you know, Joe Rogan. But after the election, at 24, CNN was saying, we got to find our own Joe Rogan. You know, the Democrats needed Joe Rogan or whatever. So it was kind of like they admitted. So In a way, 2025 was like the first full year where there's no illusions anymore that we are the captain now. You know, we are the media now, as. As Elon Musk said. And. And I think that's had a big impact on how all these things are viewed. And you Know, it's like that's just, that's just been a huge part of the story of this year. That every major, you know, event, every one of these stories that we're talking about, whether it's Epstein or Iran, whether it's Charlie Kirk or, or whatever. Well, what's coloring the way the American people are having these conversations or understanding the events that are going on around them. And it's not what the, the legacy media has to say about it. You know, like, people are, are going, it's, it's not like, you know, okay, so, so Donald Trump tries to cover up the Epstein scandal and the American people aren't going to listen to Dan Rathers talk about it. They're listening. Or Bill O'Reilly or something. They're listening to Tucker Carlson, have Daryl Cooper on for a live three hour event where he's going to go into all the details of what we know about Epstein. People are listening to Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes and you know what I mean? And like, it's just, you could see in this new, actually decentralized free media environment who is ascendant and who is descendant. And you know what I'm saying? Like, can't the news about Candace Owens ain't that she's losing a thousand subscribers every day. And you know what I mean? And like, so it's all of these things. So you have a mix with what you said, Rob. Right? Which is much like during COVID you have a mix of the fact that there's the policy that just on a common sense level is like becoming indefensible. Like, you know, like even so much of what broke the COVID narrative, which really happened during Omicron, it wasn't just podcasters like me and you. I mean, I think we played a role in kind of speaking to the Remnant during the whole thing. But what broke people was just like, dude, like, I don't know, everyone I know went and got the vaccine, then they all got Covid two months later. You know, it's just that, oh, I didn't get the vaccine, then I got Covid and it was no big deal. Like, it's just like shit like that just happened. It's right in front of your face. You can't convince me it's. But then also you don't even have the propaganda apparatus anymore. You know, like, it's not like Israel's doing some. That just seems so indefensible. And it's not. It doesn't pass the common sense sniff test that this is Right. But then you're not sitting and listening to Zionist controlled media. You're listening to Pierce Morgan or something, you know what I mean? Where there's tons of people calling this out. So that all of that to me was like a real, you know, one of the biggest stories of my lifetime. 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B (24:25)

The mainstream media or corporate press or however you want to call it. And you know, I'm really talking about cnn, msnbc, et cetera. I'd love to see a chart on this because it feels like they've got to be at the stage of lowest influence I've ever seen. And part, part of what speaks to that is the fact that we very rarely play a mainstream media clip now unless it's specifically highlighting a politician that was there and said something. But when was the last time we played an anchor and criticized what the anchor had to say? Because a, who cares? And B, it's not even really popping up in the algorithms. No one cares what was said on Morning Joe. When was the last time we did a Joe Scarborough? Because guess what? Nobody's tuning into these people. Fox News seems to still probably have the most influence in the conservative marketplace. But even that's got to be at like 50% of where it was a year ago because they lost Tucker Carlson and so much that audience left with Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson's running with a mostly different narrative on a lot of these topics.

A (25:24)

Yeah.

B (25:25)

So it really just seemed like the corporate press is like on its way out and its cultural influence has to be at the lowest of maybe all of American history.

A (25:35)

Yeah, I mean there's like really. Or at least since the media apparatus as we know it was created. You know, I really do think that like, Well, I mean, look, you could go back where is the. I think Abraham Lincoln had like quotes about how he was like, it was like, was that. I think it was an Abraham Lincoln quote that was something like if you, about reading the newspaper that if you, if you don't read the newspapers you're uninformed and if you read the newspapers you're misinformed. So it's like, you know, there's, there's been like media media bias since back then, but like since the modern corporate. Yeah, they've never had less influence. And it's a great point, even as you mention it. You know, it's like years ago, like, I mean, look, look over the course of 20, 25 corporate media clips, what do you think we did, 10 or something? You know what I mean? Like, not that many. Like really, maybe a little more than that, but not that many. Whereas in the past we used to. Do you remember Rob? The Brian Stelter clips and Rachel Maddow clips and you know, all Brian Williams. We used to always be playing these guys all. And now almost looking back at that, it almost like feels ridiculous. But like at the time it really made the time. It really felt like it made sense to take on Brian Stelter. But like, could you imagine us even thinking to take on Brian Stelter right now? Because it's just like, I don't know, it feels like doing a whole show about how transing 5 year olds is crazy. Like everyone kind of agrees now. I'm just, you know, I'm just, I'm just like, you're not putting that out into a world that like no one's arguing with that anymore. So it just seems silly. And so yeah, that is, it is really. I don't know. That's a good, it's a good personal way to measure it because that does seem like, oh, it feels like not that long ago that that was almost like. And you know, if I think back to when I first started the show and back that was like almost the entire mission of the thing was like, you know, it was like, basically I want to convince all of you Guys that the government and the media are completely full of, like. And that's what I. That's what I always used to say way back in the day, was that, like, I was like, look, I believe in all this liberty stuff, and I may not be able to convince you that I'm right about all of that. I'm going to try to. I'm going to try to convince you that, like, a free society is the way to go. But if I can't convince you of that, I can definitely convince you that all these guys, the entire political and media class, are fucking criminal liars. Like that. I can. Absolutely. I could win a court case on that. Like, I could be the lead prosecutor and get an easy conviction on that. And so now it almost feels like this case has kind of been successfully prosecuted.

B (28:17)

And it's also just interesting to see that. I really recommend it. It was a great show. They did. Showtime, did, like, a limited series on Roger Ailes where they had Russell Crowe playing Roger Ailes. And even just Russell Crowe's acting in that is fantastic. But the show is great. But Roger Ailes, at least from the way I understand it, mostly from that television show, but I get a lot of my information from television and then rehash it as fact or, like, I read a book and picked up important themes in life. But Roger Ailes understood television. He understood how to pick anchors. He understood, like, there's this scene after 911 where he keeps. He just says, keep. Just keep showing it. Just keep showing it. And then they're doing, like, the sports graphics, you know, keeping everyone super hyped and alarmed about, like. The point I'm trying to make is they just gave $130 million to Barry Weiss. And just from an entertainment perspective, or knowing how to produce good television perspective, do you think she was worth that investment? Do you think that she's gonna bring in $130 million worth of value in terms of that? Those news programs are gonna turn around now. I read her letter to the editors on the 60 Minutes report about the. I think it's called the Epcot center or Epscott, something like that, the prison in El Salvador. But okay, yeah, I know what you're talking about. This was big news. Like, a week ago. She basically canned reporting on that center, and people were giving her hell. That it was complete and total censorship. That essentially she had canned the report unless the administration would respond to it, which then allows the administration to engage in censorship by refusing to respond to it and by refusing to sponsor it. They're basically just playing into Donald Trump's censorship, that they don't want a story. And I read her letter to the editors and it was a little bit more like, hey guys, this is just missing a little bit too much context and we need a little bit more from the other side and then we can put it out. And that's not even really being canned. It's just saying you have to do a little bit more of an even handed report here and it could be put out. All right, so with all that said, I think that would have done good ratings, because people want to see. Oh my God, there's this horrible thing, particularly amongst the. And so the point I'm just trying to make is that lady does not understand, just from a television standpoint, does not understand ratings, subscribers, viewers. And then with the advent of podcasting, you watch these shows now who have all the budget in the world. They don't do actual investigative journalism. We just saw it, you know, with yesterday's episode of that kid who actually did good journalism. Their shows don't look that much different from ours, which to this day, it's each of us at our computer with cameras in a frame. There's not that much going on here. And these guys have million dollar budgets. They don't look that much better, they don't sound that much better, and they're not running with the truth. So I just see them in a death spiral.

A (31:02)

Well, it's crazy, right? Because it's. It's like they still just don't understand that there's the one thing that you can't. I don't know, it's. It almost feels like some like, like a, like a rich guy trying to, to like steal a chick in a happy marriage away from her husband. And it's like, look, I have all these things. I have this fancy car, I have this fancy house. And she's like, yeah, but I love him. Like, you're just like totally missing this. The. That's the whole thing that matters, dude. Like, I don't know, it's like, look, there are. There's no question that, like, there are. There are a bunch of shows, Rob, right? Like, there's a lot of shows on cable news who we beat, who we get better ratings than. A lot of shows like daytime MSNBC and CNN shows, we get more views across all platforms than they get on their television show, right? And they've got a fucking million dollar studio and the best camera equipment and the best everything and like, okay, but the thing is, like, we're Just saying interesting and they're not. And so, like, what do you. You guys don't have anything compelling or interesting to talk about. And most of your hosts are like, really not bright. It's unbelievable, dude. It's. I like, I used to. I always found it to be so fascinating because, like, you know, I grew up like, my. My mother is an academic and my sister is an academic, and they're both. They're both doctoral degrees. And like, I just like. Like I grew up around smart people and, you know, like, I just. I just knew a lot of really smart people and impressive people. And then. And so it was always so interesting to me, like at the beginning of my career when I would go into like, cable news spots and I would just like very easily just dominate everybody. Like, it was always just like a bunch of people saying like, low IQ nonsense and then me just tearing through all that shit. And it's not become that good. It's just that no one else there was good. No one else there was impressive. So they like, they, you know, and. And even it's demonstrated, I think, Rob, as you were, as you were saying, by even them spending all this money to do this stuff. Like, what. What are you even buying? You're about CBS News. What is that other than a big, hollow, expensive shell? Like, what is. What did you buy? You bought the name. Well, what's the. The name? The brand is the worst part of it, man. It's. It's any one of those brands or like a terrible brand to own. You'd be better off starting a whole new thing than buying CBS or ABC or. Or CNN or something like that. I mean, they're just. They're known as the enemy of the American people who lie us into wars and lockdowns. Like, who wants that? And also, like, I don't know. You know, one of the things that I think has really become apparent this year and, you know, I guess, look, obviously I'm not saying it's like the story of the year, but like the biggest story I was a part of over the last year was the. You've never been probably like that was the biggest show I did. And it was like. But there was something that. It felt, you know, a little bit to me, like, I don't know. Obviously I'm. I'm seeing the world from behind, you know, my eyes. But it did feel like it was almost like this pivot to like some type of like, soft censorship campaign where around. It was like. It was like the Zionists took such big losses in the PR world in 2024, that in 2025, they had to pivot to this. Like, Joe Rogan really shouldn't be talking to these people, or you shouldn't be platforming Nick Fuentes or you shouldn't be platforming Tucker Carlson. You must denounce all of these people or whatever. But what. One of the things that's kind of interesting about that is that it just reveals an insecurity on their part because, like, you know, if you think about it, like, there's never. It never even dawns on us to behave like that. You know what I mean? Like, it never even dawns on us to be. You know, Joe Rogan regularly has Mike Baker on just to give the CIA's fucking talking points on every. And none of us are ever like, j, you shouldn't have Mike Baker on. This is my. Why won't you denounce Mike Baker or something like that? Like, we're just like, oh, I could get on there, too. Okay, cool. Like, I don't care. I don't give a. About anyone having Nick Fuentes on or having Ben Shapiro on or having Barry Weiss on or having Candace Owens on or having anyone on. Like, I don't. I want all of them on. Like, oh, I could get into. Great. Let me make my case as compelling as I can. And so, like, there's just something like. Like. I guess. Anyway, I guess my point. My. My broader point here, Rob, is that what. When someone like Bill Ackman will spend, like, hundreds of millions of dollars to try to buy up, you know, whether it's TikTok or CBS or like, any of these other things. Like, look, as long as we don't have. The only threat to us is the censorship regime. As long as Twitter is free and YouTube is free and Rumble is free and like, all these. And like, and, you know, like, Spotify. And as long as we have places where we can get our. Then we're good. We can keep going and we can keep being more and more successful. But so, again, so my point is that when you buy up all those things, you don't really get anything for it. You're not the people. Anybody who. Who still is, like, influenced by CBS News was already the tiny percentage who you guys hadn't lost yet, and. And everybody else who's over here isn't going to be changed because now Barry Weiss is doing propaganda for them. But there is a cost to it in the broader PR war because look at. Look at the appearance. Look at the optics of it. Oh, you guys are losing, so you start buying up media. Well, that, that kind of proves all of our point now, doesn't it? So it just seems like again, another. Just another example of them not being able to adjust to the new landscape. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Rouge. If you have ever found yourself in that awkward situation of waiting to pick up a prescription at the pharmacy counter for an issue you'd rather not announce to the whole world now, there is a better way. In fact, a next gen solution. And unlike other popular brands, it's made right here in Americ. Meet Rouge Reddy. The first ever ED treatment to prime the brain for arousal and boost blood flow at the same time. It works in as little as 15 minutes and it stays effective for up to 36 hours and addresses both the physical and mental aspects of ed. Something traditional pills aren't able to deliver on. 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B (38:37)

Show and just speaking to the death spiral I used to be as a kid I used to read Mad magazine. I love Mad magazine. Probably my biggest humor influence. I think the world's a worse place that it no longer exists. They had some very libertarian. Yeah, like I remember I had a post on my wall for a long time. I hear you. Thanks to unwarranted wiretapping. That was like when I was in eighth grade. I wouldn't have otherwise been aware that the Bush administration was engaged in wiretapping. Or they had a spoof of the Clone wars, which was Gulf War two with Bush. Or in their stupidest events of the years, there was something making fun of Obama for soldier suicides. Like I'm just saying as a kid who did not follow the news, they would turn humor into really dark topics about how bad the United States government was, which was great. I can't prove this to you. I think partly why that Magazine died was it came out once a month. And with the advent of the Internet and a lot of like, the jokes in there were kind of like almost like memes by the time the thing came out. Every topic's been explored by the Internet for an entire month. The news channels have that problem too, which is like, if you just want to be loosely informed about what's going on, you will do better scrolling Twitter for 10 minutes, going to whichever AI you like to use, and just being like, hey, what's the deal with this story? Give me the top 10 stories for today and you can get that information in three minutes flat versus trying to turn on cnn. Okay, so these networks have lost the ability of, hey, I want to tune in just to be informed. The next game would be basically better analysis. I never watched Glenn Beck ever, but I remember at least I've, like, seen the footage online. Not that I ever watched, but I just know we used to do the style with, like, the chalkboard. It's almost remarkable, like, with the Epstein story coming out that, like, Fox News doesn't have the guy that you're like, oh, this is a team that's going to really put together the entire story for me that if I don't want to actually sit down and do my own research or read the Internet, there's going to be one guy who's going to collect all the information that came out and put together a cohesive story on this. So they've both lost the game in terms of breaking news because all of their information gets put on the Internet the second that they're doing it. I don't have to go to their sites, I don't have to go to their channels. I'm going to get better information and analysis from random people in their tweets. And they're not doing a better job of the television of, like, actually putting it together, because mostly they're invested their resources and propaganda pieces, such as, if you remember when they. When some of the best TV producers came together to do that trial of Donald Trump for what happened on January 6th, and nobody tuned in for it, they literally tried to turn it into prime time television. And so if you just think about, like, the stories that came out this past year, and if we had a team of people to put things together where you could do the tariff episode, you could do Somalia scandal episode, why are there so many immigrants? Like, all the topics that they could cover, they're like, firstly, just engaging in propaganda, but also, like, they're just not putting the stories together. Well, that you have any reason to actually tune in to their network, which is just. To me, that's like. It's a death spiral.

A (41:41)

Yeah. And I think that just the. A lot of people now have been exposed to people online who are doing a pretty good job of some of that stuff, who are actually, like, explaining things and putting them together and presenting both sides of an argument, you know, like, where I. I guess you just. It's like if you had, like, a fire department that just never comes and puts out a fire or something like that, you're like, you guys don't actually deliver on a service that, as you said, is a needed service. Like, people want to understand these things. They want to know about the news. They want to know what their government is doing like this. And you guys don't even pretend. Or if you do, it's. I mean, I guess you pretend, but it's just so obviously not it. Now. I do kind of think there's something like, when people see the real. And I'm not saying, like, obviously there's a lot of bad stuff on the Internet, too. There's a ton of garbage. There's stuff that's. That's as bad or worse than the corporate media on the Internet. But then there's also, like, really great shows and really great. You know, there are like. There are guys like Glenn Greenwald who are out there, like, really giving you good news and breaking things down in a really important way. And you can see, like, Ryan Grimm interview Jeremy Scahill about the latest on the ground in Lebanon or something like that, and they're really getting to the bottom of it or they're at least giving you valuable information. And when you see that, I think it's impossible. You know, it's like. It's like if there was some, like, you know, like a young woman or something like that who had come from a really shitty family where everybody was really awful to her, and she met, like, a really good guy who treated her really well. And then all of a sudden, she looks back at all the other men in her life and kind of sees them for what they are like, oh, it didn't have to way. There are actually people who are. Who are nice and sweet to me and, you know, and it, you know, it's like, if you. How could you. You know, I remember watching I is one of my, you know, the. The points where I was the most disgusted with. With the Trump administration and the. The media in general was, you know, this summer during. When we were bombing Iran and Like, I turned on Fox News a couple times there. And I mean, my God, Rob, it is just like all day long, just military industrial complex slop. I mean, just, you know, just the dumbest. Just everybody repeating 60% enriched uranium just mindlessly. And, like, you almost go, like, can. How can any thinking person not look at this and go, like, okay, but you're not, like, really giving me the story here. Like, I don't even care. Even if, like, you're gonna say, oh, the right move was to bomb around at the end of something. You're not, like, really going, okay, look, here's the facts on the ground. Here's what this conflict is about. Here's. It' just like, so obviously propaganda. And it's just. I think it's just really, really hard to compete with that when there's real out there. And, you know, hopefully we play a role in bringing you guys some of that real of what's going on. There's. Here, let me. I want to just peruse the chat real quick, see if there's some topics people had that we're not hitting. There's a few others that I thought were worth getting to, I suppose have to say something about the Elon Musk, Donald Trump falling out and just the. The collapse of Doge. I don't know. I mean, I just feel like that should be mentioned on the stories of the year, right, Rob, what can you say other than sucks?

B (45:13)

But that storyline, it's so promising because we're spending way too much money and this system's not going to work. And if you're telling me that a substantial amount of money is going to fraud and abuse and we might be able to clean up our budget without having massive austerity measures, that's the most promising story that could possibly exist. And I got to solve. You ready for the solve? You know, sometimes we don't come through with enough positive suggestions. I got an easy one. You ready for this? You gotta. Because the Internet sleuths are good and there's a lot. All right, here, I'll just lay it out. 5% returns to any person who uncovers fraud. You get 5% of the government savings, and then 5% can go to the court system that actually processes all that stuff, which. And for the first year. So, like, for example, let's say you uncovered, like, an annual scheme that was like wasting a billion dollars. You're getting 5% of the first year. I promise you, there's enough law firms and there's enough forensic accountants and there's Enough just Internet sleuths that we could probably get rid of all the fraud within a year. And you could actually fund the court system to have to process all those court cases, and those judges would actually be motivated to process the cases and hire the staff needed to see all those cases. That's it. 5% of the court systems that see those cases, and 5% to the people, 90% to the taxpayer, 90% back to the taxpayers. And then the only thing you need is basically to make more of the information. You probably are going to need also some court system to make more information publicly available. So if people want to dig in and go, wait, what the hell is this thing? And then go travel out to wherever the money's being spent to go, hey, look, there's nothing here. And then be able to bring a court case and collect a fat paycheck and save the, Save the, save the taxpayers. 90% of white is just going to nothing.

A (47:08)

2026, the year we institute Robbie Doge Rose.

B (47:12)

There you go.

A (47:12)

Roche coming in 2026. I like that. That was all great. Yeah. I mean, what. Look, it's, it was. I, I believe it was a noble effort. You know what I mean? And it was important that they. Doge at least was attempted and talked about. But, yeah, it is. It. It sure is. Look, the, the real problem that we face is that it's just very, it's very, very tough to go into Washington D.C. and try to roll back power. You know, you become an enemy of any. If you go into Washington D.C. and you're trying to increase the power of Washington D.C. you, you can rise to the top very quickly. When you're trying to roll it back, you really do become an enemy. And it'll be interesting. It'll be interesting to see if there's another attempt at something like this or what can be done, but it is, it is hard. I know you said we're not positive enough or have a message, and you gave a pretty good, like, constructive solve to all of this, but it is tough to just. It's. It's a bitter pill that going into this year, we had the greatest political comeback story. The, the greatest political coalition, Trump with record high approval ratings and the richest guy in the world backing this idea of cutting government spending. Like, sure does feel like that was a pretty golden opportunity that has really yielded in nothing, which is, you know, a little bit of a shame. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Cowboy Colostrum. Cowboy colostrum. Is 100 made in America from 100American grass fed cows. Unlike other colostrum brands, Cowboy Colostrum is sourced from the first milking of us grass fed cows. Don't worry, Cowboy Colostrum only collects the surplus colostrum after the baby calves have had their fill and they don't over process or strip their colostrum like other brands do, leaving it whole, full fat and high protein for ultimate nutrient density, making it the highest quality bovine colostrum you can buy. Cowboy is easy to drink. It's made with delicious natural ingredients and no artificial flavors. You Simply add a 3 gram scoop of either their chocolate, Madagascar vanilla or strawberry into your coffee or smoothie. And as an added bonus, the natural growth factors and peptides and Cowboy Colostrum will make your hair and skin look amazing. For a limited time our listeners can get 25 off their entire order. Just head over to cowboy colostrum.com Dave and use the promo code Dave. That's 25% off when you go to cowboy colostrum.comDave and use the promo code Dave. All right, let's get back into the show. And we did say, oh yeah, we said on one of our listener questions on the last members only episode was to rank my gayest debate opponents of the year. And we thought maybe we would save that for this but we could go through that. That was another big theme 2025 for me. I did a lot of debates and the fans, if they want me to rank the gayest one, I, I said this on, on that show but, but for me it's, everyone thought I was going to say Douglas Murray, but it was Alex Berenson has got to be the winner of that. He's got to be the gayest debate opponent. And you know, look, I'll be, I'll tell you what, the other thing here I'll give just to balance it out and be fair, another one of the biggest stories of the year that didn't get nearly enough attention was that kids got killed with the COVID vacs and at least the 10 and then the other one that Alex Berenson broke the story on. So I'll give them that. He got, he got one of the biggest stories of the year. But yeah, man, what a gay debate performance. I don't know.

B (50:54)

I, I, let's talk about some of the other honorable mentions.

A (50:58)

Honorable mentions.

B (50:59)

I mean Hammer was exceptionally gay because he didn't just have to debate him once, but it was twice.

A (51:04)

That was pretty good.

B (51:04)

You have to do something you know, that sucks twice. You know that, that makes it worse. Second time.

A (51:10)

And he was a lot gayer the second time. Yeah, he was a lot the first time. He just came in and just, just basically, I mean, essentially he just took his beating, you know what I mean? Like he just came in and debated the ideas and got up. The second time he thought he was going to be clever and go up there and just debate me. But honestly, like, you know, look, I mean I, it's not even when I say this, like, I'm not like sitting here saying, look, I, I, the reason why I wrecked Josh in both those debates isn't because like I'm any smarter than him or anything like that. And it's not anything really about me or my talent as a debater. It's just like I have like, I have incredibly unfair advantages, which is that like I'm arguing for the side that's obviously right. I have the truth. And you have to be completely full of and lie. But then also I do kind of have this advantage just from being a comedian for 20 years that like, I kind of know how to perform better than you. And he's just like a nerd. And like you're like, nerd. You're not going to pounce me in front of this whole fucking room because like, it's just not going to work that way, you know, and, but yeah, he was pretty gay the second time.

B (52:16)

And then another honorable mention is Douglas Murray didn't even debate you. He just went, I'm a gay man and I'm going to play gay tricks. And it didn't work on you. So things like the never been, you're not an expert. Hey, let's not talk about this conversation at all. I'm just going to try and pivot and shame you because I'm a self proclaimed expert and academic, even though what are my credentials? And so he literally played every gay trick that you could and none of them stuck.

A (52:42)

So that definitely gay tricks don't work on me, bro. A lot better gays than Douglas Murray have tried those gay tricks don't work on me.

B (52:51)

And so that's the top three. You were in all of your debates. So what would you get? What would you put as the other two on the leaderboard?

A (53:01)

Well, look, I mean, obviously those have got to be the top three. And Murray's was particularly bad. Well, just because it was the highest profile one. Like, it was like Murray's was like the, the thing with, with Douglas Murray was that it was, there was something about it, it was just like a moment that had arrived because, like, I had had, I had had like a pretty. I. I had a pretty monster year in 2023 and 2024. Like, I had been like, kind of like growing in, in, you know, prominence or whatever. And I was doing all of these debates and I was just like, I was winning consistently winning all the, the Israel debates. And then Douglas Murray was supposed to be like their, their best guy. So it was like this, like, oh, okay, you've gotten up here and gotten up here and gotten up here and like, you've won over Joe Rogan and you've won over Tucker Carlson and you've won all these debates, but now on the biggest show, you got to debate their best guy, you know, so it was like, it was this build up, up to be a thing. And then as you said, he just didn't want to debate. He just wanted to do nothing but gay tricks. Very good way to put it. And so, like, there was something about that that just like it created this moment of like, oh, that's what you guys got. And then there was this whole like, kind of second secondary effect where it then ended up exposing all the other people who tried to pretend that Douglas Murray did something there, you know what I mean? And then like, whereas, like, the reaction to every. The, the reaction amongst the audience was just universally mocking Douglas. Like, it was just. It wasn't even like, about the issue. It. He. It could have been. It's a shame in a way because that could have ended up being a thing that was really about the issue. And we really got into like, the arguments on this huge stage. But none of that, because of the way he handled himself and because the ridiculous nature of the points he was making, none of that became the story. And the story just became like, oh, you actually thought you could just come in here and do that and get away from having a debate, anything. And like how. And then, then that kind of, that had a big effect on kind of making people more crazy and definitely changed things for me. You know, it was a moment like, just personally that my career, it was like a some type of critical mass, like thing for me where it just. A lot of things in my life changed and the amount of like, hatred toward me from the other side really grew exponentially. Also, the amount of listeners and the amount of tickets we're selling and the amount like everything good grew also. But it was. There's just something really interesting about that moment. So that, like, it was particularly gay because he, you know, just did that in that big of a moment, but just on the pure gayness of it. Baronson wins.

B (55:50)

And then.

A (55:51)

So Berenson, then Douglas Murray, then Josh Hammer. Josh Hammer, you're skating here, man. You're only number three.

B (55:58)

I would also give honorable mentions to Ben Shapiro and Glenn Rubin for refusing to debate Dave Rubin, which is also pretty gay.

A (56:07)

Yeah, they, you know, weirdly, like, that's. Well, okay, so then here, Dave Rubin, really the gayest on that because he was the one who started talking shit about me. And then he accepted the challenge and then just ran from it, which is like the gayest way to handle that shit. Like, you could ignore it and not accept the challenge, but he accepted it and then just refused. Even after. I mean, like, I. I know, like, Patrick bet, David, Charlie, Kirk, Pierce, Morgan all offered him the debate. Like, he could. He could have had his pick of any of the, like, you know, up there with the biggest guys who were more than happy to platform this thing and have it it and refused all of them and just won't respond to people about it now. So that one was pretty bad. And then I'm trying to think, like, I don't know.

B (56:54)

I think the single best moment. And you live these moments, so you might be able to refute this, but when you called out that lady for being Israel's lawyer and she said, no, I'm not. And then Piers Morgan said, what's the name of your law firm?

A (57:08)

No, she goes, what's the name of your organization? She goes, UK Lawyers for Israel. Yeah, dude, that one. Well, that was another one that was. You know, that. That was an interesting one because she, again, it was like she was the one who was billed as, like, no, okay, now that, you know, it's always like, no, now this one's gonna come really wreck Dave. Now this one's gonna come. And. And she's like the. You know, I. I guess they fancy her some expert in international law or something like that. And she's like. I've listened to a couple of her, like, speeches before, and she's good at weaving her. But again, it's like all of them, like, the thing just kind of falls apart with just like, a little bit of resistance. And so, yeah, that was definitely one. And then she, I think, was like, threatening sue Piers Morgan over it or something like that. So then that became like, a whole spectacle because she just handled it, like, in such a ridiculous way. Now I'm trying to think, man, I don't know. You know, there's so many other Piers Morgan ones. Nothing's really jumping out. I mean, I don't know is like a really, you know, because we're talking about gay, which is a specific critique of a debate, not just like a poor debate performance or something like that. But yeah, no, and then I would say the, I would have to say probably the best, the best, most honorable debate opponents that I had were, have got to be, I guess, Constantine Cassin and, and Francis and Coleman Hughes where, you know, I mean, I still disagree with those guys and there were certainly like points where I thought they were being a little obtuse or a little pedantic or something like that, but like they discussed the issues with me in a non, you know, like in a civilized and, and honorable way. I thought so I give those guys credit for that. But yeah, yeah, it was a, it was, it. Look, this was, this was a crazy year for me personally. I mean, unlike any year I've ever had before. The best year of my career by far. And yeah, that's, it's. I'm very grateful to everybody who listens for that. But just the best year, the best year for this show by far. Like really, really by far the most views and stuff we've ever, we've ever had and me and you sold the most tickets on the road that we've ever sold and things like that is all. Was all great. So it was cool. I'm really very, very grateful to all the people who helped make that happen. Obviously, first and foremost has got to be Joe Rogan for setting up that, for setting up that amazing, you know, opportunity for me and several others and of course Tucker and Candace and you know, a long list of people who, who have like, had me on and Nick Fuentes coming and doing the show was a huge, that was a huge show. So, yeah, very grateful to everybody who, who helped me in this year. It was really crazy and for more than anyone else, I guess just to the listeners because you guys are awesome and I know, you know, we're. I'm just excited to like, I don't know, I'm excited to go into 2026 and to kind of like build off of that and to find a way to make this year even bigger than. Than last year. But anyway, anyway, I would say very special thank you. Also, of course to you, Rob, being the best goddamn co host and comedy partner I could imagine having. And also a big thank you to Natalie who is the, the, our producer here who is off camera. So she gets far too little of the, of the credit when things go good and an unfair amount of the blame when things go bad. I do say the audience does blame Natalie. Anytime anything's wrong, it's only like 10 of the time her fault. Fault. But yeah. So thank you to, to both of you guys. Anyway, is there anything, is there anything we missed here, Rob, that, that needs to be mentioned before we wrap up?

B (61:23)

Well, you know, if you're going to be all nice, thanks for having us for the ride.

A (61:27)

Of course.

B (61:28)

I, I think the, the one big topic that we just didn't talk much about on this episode was Charlie Kirk. We had mentioned it at the beginning, but.

A (61:35)

Yeah, yeah.

B (61:38)

Analysis.

A (61:39)

Well, I mean, what can you say? It was, you know, it was the, the, you know, the most high profile political assassination of, of our lifetimes. And it certainly, you know, I guess it's in some ways it seems a little bit too soon to really say what the effects of that are. It's a big enough thing that, you know, it deserves to be one of the biggest stories of the year. But it has. Well, for sure. At least so far we could say that. I think that in many ways the. Well, in many ways, right. It, it resulted not solely because of this, but it did seem to result in Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes tremendous rise in popularity, like kind of filling a vacuum there or kind of, you know, I don't know exactly, but like that certainly was a factor. It really exposed a real kind of sickness amongst a sliver of the left in this country who were like celebrating it or couldn't bring themselves to just say like that was really bad and we're against that without any qualifiers. And, and it's thrust Turning Point USA as an organization into the public eye more than ever before. And it's probably led to more conspiracies than just about any other event. And I do think it also was another, it was a major factor in what I said was one of the biggest themes of the years, which was the, the exposing of the Israel Lobby. And I think people just saw a lot of like, you know, much, much more was made than ever would have been of like what exactly the dynamics were of how much pressure, pressure Charlie Kirk was getting and what it really looks like on the inside when you, you know, run a big organization like this and so that a huge impact, you know, on the culture already in those ways. But I don't really know, you know, looking back 10 years from now, I'll probably have a whole of bunch, bunch of things that I think were really affected by that, you know, that assassination.

B (64:03)

And if there's one thing we can hope for 2026, is that we get the full Epstein story, and hopefully it includes a scandal which includes a sex tape of Bridget Macron, and we can actually see her penis in action and put two stories to rest.

A (64:19)

Oh, you know what I should say?

B (64:21)

Don't sue me. I make jokes. French government, keep your assassins on other people, but don't. Don't assassinate anybody, man. I really gotta watch what I say. Why are we an hour into this episode? I'm not supposed to talk anymore.

A (64:34)

Yeah, that's it. It's. You go, you. You like. Like Cinderella, basically just become the thing. So I. I will say that I did love. This was one of my favorite stories of the year that just happened. But if you. Did you see David Wormser's meltdown on Twitter? I mean, it was. Dude, it's the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. So me and Scott did, like, a response to David Worms, or, you know, responding to me and David Worms are. Took to Twitter and he said, and I missed this, by the way, the first time. But I guess he basically said that for. He just dismissed. He was like, I couldn't even make it a few minutes into the. These guys, their hatred, they're in a cult of hatred and blah, blah, blah. Like, you just can't. It's amazing. Like, like the architect of the war in Iraq, he can't even imagine that people hate him over that. But he. He threatened to sue. And even at one point, he kind of threatened to call the cops, like he said, I guess, because we titled the episode Horton Destroys Worms are. And he goes. He goes, oh, like, I. I wonder if, like, trying to get people to destroy me as grounds for a lawsuit or. Or per incitement to violence. And you're like, you think you can call the cops on me? Because we did a podcast about like, go ahead, go ahead, David Worms, or call them. Let's see how that goes. Like, what? And. But I. I don't know why. I just. Look, man, it's the author of the Clean Break threatening to call the cops because me and Scott hurt his feelings so much is a hell of a Christmas gift for me and I think our entire movement. But is it funny? Could you just imagine that? Like, imagine trying to fight the stereotype of like, oh, this Jewish guy got us into a war for Israel. And then you go. You come out and we go, yeah, he did. And you go, I'm gonna sue. Like, oh, Jesus, dude, you're really not helping your cause here, are you? Oh, man. You know what? By the way, as right there is a good time, let me give a plug to the Scott Horton Academy. If you want to really understand what a goddamn criminal David Wormser is and also like a whole bunch of other really good stuff, go to Scott Horton Academy.com PotP I got a link up there. Go check it out. A ton of great, great information. If you guys really want to take your game, if you want to make that your New Year's resolutions or really level your understanding of this up, go sign up over, over at Scott Horton's Academy. It's. That's where you're going to learn lots and lots of great, great information. Rob. Another great year, my brother. Let's go have another. Let's go have another one in 2026, man. What do you say?

B (67:26)

I like it. Good plan.

A (67:28)

All right, man. Well, it's a crazy world, but it is a little bit less crazy when we all get to break it down together. Thank you guys for being a part of this. Catch you guys next time. Pe. Sam.