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What's up? What's up everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I am Dave Smith. Roland Solo for this episode. Thank you guys all so much for, for tuning in. Don't forget guys, just in a couple days, we, me and Ro the Fire Bernstein will be out at the Skyline Comedy Club in Appleton, Wisconsin August 13th through 15th. So that's just a couple days away. Really looking forward to that. We had a great time out there last year. And then my next gig after that is August 28th through 30th. I will be back at the big one, the comedy mothership in Austin, Texas. Guys, this is the one. Every single year, every single year at the last minute I have people looking for tickets for, for the Comedy Mothership. They will sell out soon. I think about half the shows are sold out as of right now, but there's still tickets available. So if you want to come out, go grab them now. I'm not gonna have enough.
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It's.
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We're gonna be in the same situation. But comicdavesmith.com that is the, the ticket link for, for. That's where you get ticket links for all that stuff. Okay, so for today's show, I wanted to, to respond to Hasan Pikers who cut a little thing.
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C
He.
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A
I don't know. I don't Understand Hasan Piker or where his show is. It's not a comment on him, it's a comment on me. But I think he's like a kick streamer or something. I don't know, but I see the clips and he, he responded to the episode of Piers Morgan yesterday. I had briefly mentioned it on yesterday's show. I, I was on a panel with Cenk Uygur. The topic ended up being Hasan Piker for way too long. I think the, the topic was supposed to be about kind of the rise of the, the DSA Candid ended up kind of becoming about Hassan Piker, I think largely because Jank was there and because Hassan is kind of the, you know, at this point, the biggest, I guess the biggest streamer, podcaster, whatever, who's in that world anyway, and he's his nephew. So that just ended up being the conversation. I want to say a few things about this. You know, I should. Personally, I, I saw this response that we're going to play here and, and get into from Hasan Piker earlier today, and I sent Anna and Jank a long message about it just being like, look how dishonest this guy is and probably saying some of the stuff I'm gonna say here. And I, I later apologized for that. And I do think in some ways, I think I owe Jank a little bit of an apology just because I understand family's family. You know, I got nephews too, and I understand I'd be in a weird position if someone was coming at me about something my nephew had said, but it's a little bit of a weird position because he's also a big figure in this movement, which I can't believe. I'm somewhat shocked by, you know, as you guys who, who are, if you've watched the show for a while, you know, over the years, we've done a few episodes that were responses to, to Hassan Piker. He's done. It was. He had done a few segments on me over the years, usually like responding to something like a, you know, a clip of me on Rogan or something like that. And I always thought it was just, I mean, I, I don't know. There's a lot of people in the podcast world, in the political commentary world who have ascended and become big. And whether I agree with them or not, I certainly understand why they're successful. I'm shocked that he's become successful. I've always just thought he's so bad at this. But again, that's just my opinion in the market that we all Love so much, seems to value him. For a long time I just kind of thought it was like, well, his audience must just be like teenage girls. I don't know who else would consume this. And he's got that, he's like half male model, half regime approved socialist. So like I kind of thought, oh, maybe it appeals to them and maybe that still is the case. That is a demographic that's voting for DSA candidates. But at this point he's actually being somewhat embraced by a lot of rising candidates. And so I think it's something that has to be taken on. Anyway, let me preface before we get into this. This is Hassan Piker responding to a panel from Pierce Morgan. The other day, the, the, the show was blowing up. I was getting a lot of responses from it. I was happy with the panel. I, I just, I'm gonna say before we get into this that I made, I made a few basic points to Jank in this panel. I don't believe I got a response to any of them. I'm not gonna say that's Cenk's fault because again, it was a panel on Pierce Morgan and this would probably be more appropriate for me and him to have a long form conversation about which I'm very open to do, by the way. Open invite to Cenk. I've had him on the show before. He's had me on his show. We've debated together. We've, you know, I, I'd be more than happy to talk to him about this stuff anytime. But there were a few points that I made. Let me lay them out as succinctly here. These are points that, you know, you guys are probably familiar with, but just to be clear, this is, some of, this is what I said on the Piers Morgan panel. Okay? So first of all, I said that the, I think that there's something incredibly dishonest about the Democratic socialist movement and, and that it's kind of an outgrowth of this very dishonest kind of liberal and leftist tactic that they've really employed over the last 20 years before that as well, but particularly over the last 20 years where they've employed this tactic where they pretend that the conversation is about free stuff. You know, and I know they don't like when, when you use the term stuff because they feel like that's diminishing or something. But I just mean that they talk about, it's like, well, I believe in free education. Well, I believe healthcare is a human right. Well, I believe like, like as if the idea, as if the conversation because obviously you can see it's. There's something very dishonest about it because as I said on the show, my 7 year old could figure out that, like, healthcare isn't really free as long as doctors are drawing salaries and nurses are drawing salaries and construction workers are being paid to build buildings and people who maintenance medical machinery are being paid to do that. And the. You know what I'm saying? Like, if everybody's being compensated for their work, then clearly the service isn't free. So the debate is over whether people ought to be taxed and then the government ought to provide the service or whether it should be provided in the market by. By, you know, voluntary exchanges. Okay? That's the debate. Framing it as do you like free education or not turns it into a thing where essentially I'm Santa Claus. This is what Mises called it, the Santa Claus principle of intervention. The idea that we pretend there's just a limitless amount of resources. And so why wouldn't you want things for free? Even though that is. That is objectively anti reality, it's not true. Resources are scarce. We only have so much, so much of them. And so then the framing is that, like, I guess if you're Santa Claus, I don't think Misa said this, but then I guess you would be like the Grinch or something like that. If you're not for the government taking over the health care industry, you're against free health care. It's an incredibly obviously dishonest tactic done used to suppress debate and to cast anybody who disagrees with state socialism as somehow evil, immoral. You just don't want people to have stuff. There's a great old. There's a classic old Soviet joke, or it's like a capitalist communist joke, but it's two women starving women are standing in bread lines in the Soviet Union waiting, and one of them's complaining and she goes, oh, my God, you know, they used to give us a loaf of bread. Now they only give. Then it was only half a loaf of bread. Now they're giving me like two slices of bread. My whole family's starving. And the other Russian wife says, you shouldn't complain. In America, the government doesn't give out bread at all. You know, okay, it's a dumb old joke, but the point is that just opposing the government giving something out doesn't mean you're against the thing. And it's. Anyway, so I made the point that, like, when the liberals do that, why shouldn't the socialists run right to the left of them and just say more free stuff. But essentially all they're saying is more free stuff. And the term socialism, even the term democratic socialism actually means something. If you ask some of their biggest proponents at what's the Bhaskar Sankara's publication? I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the name of it, but the big democratic socialist publication that boss Carson Cara works for, and if you ask Professor, Professor Richard Wolf or some of these people, they'll tell you democratic socialism means is revolution that they want to. Richard Wolf is very clearly saying that employers should be outlawed, that private businesses should not be run hierarchically. Sorry if I struggled with that word. There shouldn't be a hierarchical nature to private businesses. Let's phrase it that way. But that's what so like, hey, if that's what you're saying, fine. But then people like Bernie Sanders use the term and say, I'm a democratic socialist. And by that I mean a higher minimum wage and universal health care. Well, hold on. That's a completely different thing. So, like, which one are you talking about? And why are you calling yourself that one? All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Superpower. I don't know about you, but I have many times left, like, a doctor's appointment, feeling like they didn't really do anything. I'm not sure anything was improved about my health. I'm not even sure they checked. Well, if you really want to take your health to the next level, you got to check out Superpower. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab. It's one simple blood draw. It has over 100 biomarkers. That's way more than you usually get, so it unlocks a real understanding about your body. Then there's their app, and that includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, even environmental toxins. So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simply optimizing your gym game, Superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced system out there. They're going to give you recommendations on what supplements to take, how much sleep you need, what your diet should focus on, exercise recommendations, lifestyle and behavioral adjustments. You even get your true biological age. And because each test builds on the last, you're going to get to see how you're progressing and unlock even more understanding of your own health. So make this the year you stop guessing about your health and start knowing what your body actually needs. With Superpower. And for a limited Time our listeners can get $20 off to unlock their new health intelligence. Just head over to superpower.com and use the promo code PROBLEM for $20 off your membership. Again, that promo code is problem@ superpower.com. all right, let's get back into the show. And so I made that point. I made, I, I criticized Hassan Piker for the way he talks about Mao say Tang. I go, what's going on here? What's going on with all these guys? You know, like. And I made the point that I've made on the show that if you looked at the British or American industrial revolution, all these socialists can talk about is how abused the workers are. Something exploited workers, grueling labor conditions, wage theft, evil capitalists. But when it comes to Russia or China, they go, well, I mean, hey, they did build some factories. And well, you got to understand within context. And sure, there were excesses, but blah, blah, blah, they give, they give the most murderous, the people who were the worst thing that ever happened to the peasant class, to the pro, to the proletariat, the worst thing that ever happened to them. Them somehow you have a soft spot for. So these were some points I made. I didn't feel that any of them got addressed. But Hassan Piker came out to, to respond. I, I, I will tell you guys, I did not finish watching this. I watched part of it and immediately decided I had to respond on the podcast. So we'll have, have some fun here together. But okay, let's get into some of this. Here's Hassan Piker. Hang on, please.
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C
Hang on, please. I want to ask, Check, a simple question. Yeah, hang on. Check. You say the mainstream media, Does Bill
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D
Marcel get asked about his 911 take? No. No one. Most people don't even know about Bill Maher's 911 take because he said it right after 9 11. And the reason why no one gives a shit about it now also because it's been a long time, is because Bill Maher is pro Israel. Bill Maher is an establishment media figure. Like, they're never going to fucking criticize Bill Maher. Bill Maher doesn't even get asked about saying the N word on his HBO show. Like, that was four years ago.
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A
All right, huge pause it here for a second because I think we're gonna, he's gonna get into the Mao Seitong stuff after that. But just since he mentioned the Bill Maher thing, it's just like, and this is kind of the thing Cenk was trying to do on the podcast. And it just, this Just doesn't really work on me because, yeah, it might be true that you could say to someone, hey, how come Bill Maher doesn't get asked about this? Well, it's because he's a Zionist or something and look like, is it true? Yeah, there's definitely some truth to that. And there's some truth to the fact that, like, Howard Stern never got canceled in the. In the height of the MeToo movement, right? All you left lefties who are really into that at the time, like, you picked and chose your targets. Also, like, okay, there's some degree of truth to that also, though, like, for anyone who does remember what Bill Maher said and what Hasan Piker said are totally different. You know, like, whatever. I don't even give a shit. He apologized for the comment. Fine. But, like, if you apologize for the comment, don't compare it to something that. A totally different comment. Bill Mar's comment. Okay, this is what Bill mar said after 911 that he got. He got fired for his ABC show for it. He said, he said it was George W. Bush had continued. This is the weeks after 911. And George W. Bush kept calling the terrorist cowards. And Bill Maher on his show, he said, you know, Bush keeps calling them cowards. I'm not sure that's the right word for them. Like, yes, they're evil, but there's something weird about calling someone who gets in a plane and flies it into a building a coward. Like, it's not. You know what I mean? And like, and then. And this is really what got him in trouble, he goes, especially when our guys lob cruise missiles from ships from a safe distance, he goes, we're going to call them the cowards. I mean, really, we're the cowards. Now, if you could imagine, in the immediate weeks after 9 11, that was enough to get you fired. First of all, the nuance of just saying like, like, they're not cowards. No one was ready to hear nuance, even though he obviously had a good point. But, you know, as I could tell you, someone who was 18 at the time, I remember the culture, but the idea of even implying that our troops were anything less than noble and brave and awesome, you know, like, man, implying that the terrorists were anything other than evil and cowards was rough. But implying our troops were anything other than noble and brave, that was too much. And he got fired. Now, obviously, he shouldn't have gotten fired, because, look, dude, objectively, whether you exactly agree with the. The statement or not, he's making a point there. He's making a point there about the level of bravery that it takes to lob a cruise missile from a comfortable distance versus being willing to die for your cause. You know, I mean, however you feel about that. He's making a point. What Hasan Piker said is that we deserved 9, 11. Now, just to be very clear again, and this is why I think both Cenk and I think Hasan have a little bit of trouble dealing with me on this issue. Because, look, I'm the guy who makes the blowback argument. I get what Hasan was trying to say, but he's such an idiot leftist that he's got such a collectivist mind state that all he can think about is like, America bad and them good, or which side is good, which side is bad. And so. Whereas if you heard it come out of my mouth, you would always hear it come out as like our foreign policy of slaughtering innocent people in far away poor countries, radicalized young men to want to come over here and slaughter a bunch of our people. But that is such a different statement from saying they deserved. Not like. Because if you say deserved, are you implying that, like, the lady in that building deserved to burn to death? Because no, she fucking didn't. And yes, that is a horrible thing to say. Now, if you want to apologize for that, fine, but don't compare that to a statement about the courage of different type of fighters like that. That's just a totally different thing. Now, I'm sorry if you want to walk away from that state. Yeah, you made a stupid statement that doesn't make any sense at all. And no one would ever even make the mistake of making that, that statement unless they had such a already convoluted, incoherent worldview where somehow innocent people were, by the way, the same innocent world, the same worldview that we object to about the Israelis, the exact same ones that a people can deserve a thing. Okay, all right, you made a mistake. But don't equate that with something else that's totally different. Like, listen, Bill Maher's guilty of a million things, but that statement that you're talking about was not collectivizing innocent people and condemning them to death and saying they deserved it. And that is a little bit more than just a mistake. That is a mistake you will not find us stumbling into on this podcast, much like praising Mao Zedong. Jacobin. Yes, thank you, Natalie. Jacobin magazine was the publication I was looking for. Okay, let's, let's, let's go back to Hassan here. And I think now we're going to start to get into some now stuff.
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D
That's kind of the point, Ben. That's kind of the point that Cenk is trying to address here where it's like these guys say fucking awful shit. You know,
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C
Media wouldn't go off to somebody for saying, you know, difficult things or difficult positions or whatever. I just don't think it's true. If Donald Trump came out with the comments about Mao Zedong that your nephew did, all hell would break loose. And what Dave Smith likely has asked. I can prove it. Yeah, he, he said a dumb thing. He said a dumb thing about, about America and 911 and he came on your show immediately and retracted it. Okay. But as Dave said, the mindset which goes out of its way to minimize the actions of the most genocidal monster in the history of planet Earth is very concerning. And as your nephew star rises and he gets a big feature in Rolling Stone magazine and becomes the face of the progressive left and so on, it is completely legitimate to ask why he would seek to minimize what Mao Zedong did.
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D
Wait, why? What is the minimization? Also, Trump praised Kim Jong Un. He would praise Mao if he was alive. I know, but what if I minimized. Like, this is a, this is a conversation that's taking place on a totally separate reality at this point.
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A
Okay, here, let's pause it right here just to kind of recap. What am I minimizing like here? Let's. Let's pause it. Ok, so just so far, what we've got from Hasan here is also. Well, Bill Maher says terrible things and Donald Trump says terrible things. Again, this is why they have trouble dealing with me, even though he is responding to a panel where I just posed the question and Pierce Morgan is going, what about the thing Dave Smith just said? Bill Maher says bad things and Donald Trump says bad things. Okay, I don't like Bill Ma or Donald Trump. Great. Let's get back to the bad things you said. But now here's his. What are you even talking about? Well, okay, let me take a step back. I suppose I've got this wrong. I, I suppose I've got it all wrong. What am I even talking about? He's saying now that he is not minimizing. Okay. All right, let's hear. Yeah, as, as you recall in the, in the episode itself, which I said very clearly, you know, Cenk at one point kind of accused the group, which I guess was including me, of like trying to cancel Hasan. To be very clear here, I'm not Trying to cancel Hasan. I'm trying to debate Hasan Piker. That's what this episode is ultimately going to be setting up for a call to a debate. I'm not trying to silence him. I'm trying to, as the lefties say, platform him or have him platform me or whatever you want to say. But I'm not trying to silence him. I'm trying to get him to stake out his position here so we can have an honest debate about what the position exactly is. But right now he's telling me I got it all wrong. What am I even talking about? What is he minimizing? So let's keep playing. Maybe let me take him at his word here. I want to hear the position. Let's play.
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D
He should be murdered on the spot or something. Like, what the fuck? I'm like, yeah, no, it's, it's awesome. They should have, they should have killed more sparrows. Like, what, they didn't kill enough sparrows? Ok? Those pests, they should have been, they should have, they should have been killing more. More sparrows. More pests should have been killed. They didn't go hard enough on the, on the, on the rightist forces in the country. The Cultural Revolution was, was, was not finished. You know, the job is not done. Like, what the.
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A
Okay, so, so here, let's pause it real quick. So for those of you guys if, if you don't float in like these retarded commie circles, he's kind of mocking the idea now that I'm accusing him of being some type of Mao as communist. Like, yeah, that's my position is what, they didn't kill enough birds for you guys? If you don't understand what he's going, oh, they didn't go hard enough against the reactionaries. There's, you know, he's like, this was a big part of Mao's great leap forward was the war on sparrows. It's really retarded shit. But it's like millions of people starved as a result of it. I, I don't know, but whatever. But okay, so he's kind of mocking the idea that I am accusing him of being a Mao apologist or something like that. Anyway, let's keep playing.
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D
The bird lobby's gonna clear your ass. It's, It's a strange phenomena because, like, this goes back to what I was talking about with respect to, like, even if you don't like China, you should probably understand China. And understanding the People's Republic of China revolves around understanding Mao Zedong revolves around understanding the Conditions that China was facing when the revolution took place, when the civil war happened, the Japanese invasion of China. Like, all of this stuff is very important historically. Ok? And I don't think you. It's not even about nuance necessarily in this, in this moment. It's more so just like the idea from their perspective is like, no, you don't understand. Mao, like deliberately engineered a famine so he could kill people. Like, so he could kill as many Chinese people as possible. And then he loved it so much. And then he was like, you should, you guys should also go and like, you know, the Red Guards should go and like, murder people for doing math. And also Hasan likes all of that. Like, that is the argument that they're presenting here where the argument is like, Mao Zedong was like, oh, we did it, guys, we defeated the Japanese, we won this civil war. KMT's been purged. OK? And now, you know, the long march is complete. Now what's our next step? Murdering people in the countryside by trying to engage in rapid industrialization. And also murdering as many. Murdering as many sparrows as possible.
- [25:33]
A
Just pause it for a second. Just pause it. Okay. And you can take this down for a second. Like, I mean, you're not that far off. See, he goes, he starts with. Again, imagine this being the starting point. He starts with, these guys are saying, I'm minimizing Hitler's atrocities. Like, what are you even talking about, guys? Like, yeah, if I were there, that I would be like, like, oh yeah, we should make Auschwitz even bigger. Blah, blah, blah. I'm not minimizing his atrocities at all. It's just like, what do you guys think that like, you got to understand the context. There was World War I, there was the Treaty of Versailles. Also, like, what do you think Hitler just wanted to kill Jews? Like, he just woke up one day like, oh my God, like, what is any of this? I mean, he did it. He did it. Yes. Maong killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. He did all of that. What do you mean about the claim of his mind state? I thought you just said it was crazy to think you were minimizing the guy. That sure seems to be what you're teeing up here. Let's keep playing. Tell me more about Mao. The history I should understand.
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D
Near a famine that kills millions. Ok, this is awesome. This is like what we want to do. And then, and of course, like right after that, they were like, oh, thank God we did that. It's so awesome. And the remaining, the remaining Chinese population was like, thank you for doing this. This was awesome. This was, this was a really fun endeavor. And also Now I'm in 2026 being like, I approve of all of this. It's crazy.
- [27:20]
A
Okay, so let's, let's just pause it for a second here. So let's just. Because it's as he's saying, it's crazy. You know, the one thing you might notice he's not doing is just staking out what his position is. And this was the entire point of what I was saying. So what is your position? Because it sure does seem like as he's saying it's crazy while doing the thing he's accusing you saying is crazy. Are you arguing that Mao didn't intentionally kill people? Is that what he's saying here? That people act like Mao committed an intentional genocide, but he didn't? Please say that if that's what you're trying to say. Because to be clear, this is an interesting claim here, right? To be clear, Mao did again. Wow. By the way, I mean, a point to you guys may notice those of you who watch some of my contact content. When have I had to get into this debate about intentionality before? Oh yeah, this is the argument that the Zionists make that they're not intentionally killing civilians. It's not intentional. Well, okay, let's get down to the bottom of that. First of all, Mao killed millions of people intentionally. Intentionally meaning murdered them, sent them to death camps where they were worked to death. Chinese were worked to death in death camps or work camps, whatever you want to call it. They died there from working by the hundreds of thousands. They were executed by the millions. Now it is true that his economic policies starved many more tens of millions of people to death. But what are we really talking about here? You know, again, so this is essentially what Mao Zedong did, right? And by the way, it's, it's funny because he's sitting here and telling people to like read books about this or whatever. And I am not claiming to be the most well read guy on, on China. And in fact, like some of the people who. I'd say this, there's far like better well read people to really give you a history of Mao. Hasan clearly has never read one non commie source, I'll say that much. Not one non commie source. There's, you know, there's a book, there's a book called Mao's Great Famine. Excellent book by the way. It was written by some Dutch guy. I'm blanking on his name. It was a really good book. And they go through the archives of the provinces as well as, like, the cities and some of the counties. And they go through the punishment that. That, that the Mao's, you know, status plans came with all types of torture, brutality, absolutely just murdered anybody who would speak up against the regime. This dude was, you know, he was a guerrilla fighter. He was. He was running the torture programs before he took over the whole country. But so essentially what they did right during the. The great leap forward is they. So they collectivized all of the farmland, meaning the state took over ownership of everything. Of everything. And they went. They went from farm to farm to farm and kicked all of the peasant farmers off of their farms. And they collected their pots and pans, they took everything and they forced them onto these, like, huge collectivized farms. And then all of the grain that everyone produced was to go right to the state. And if people were caught hoarding any grain of their own or trying to trade on their own, they were murdered or tortured. By the way, one of the things Mao Zedong really loved was torture for the sake of torture. So he would at times torture people to get confessions that implicated other people. He knew it was a phony confession. He knew the other people weren't implicated, but he'd torture that guy to get the confessions to go torture all these guys just to show his power. He wrote all about this. You know, this is his whole, you know, political power comes out of the barrel of a gun thing. It was like, violence leads to power. Violence for violence sake leads to power. Intentional. But talking about the other, so that he collectivizes all the farms, right? And this is goddamn proven in the record. People start, as you can imagine, everyone starts starving to death. You're not producing grain anymore. And every successful farmer has been, you know, accused of being a greedy capitalist or something like that. So anyone who's good at producing food has probably already been tortured and killed. So then you're well aware that people are starving to death as this is going on. You know, it's not working, but you keep doing it. Because again, Hasan can say, oh, what was his mentality that was so great? Let's keep doing it. Well, no, I mean, I understand you think like a child, but no, that's not exactly his mentality. His mentality is something about how he'll be the great leader who rose China up, and then when his plan is resulting in starving people to death, he has to cover that up and have all of his state run newspapers in the cities lie and tell you how great it's going, okay, because the bird thing, I don't know if you guys know about this 1958, the sparrow thing that. That Hassan keeps, you know, kind of jokingly bringing up, that was designed to cover the tracks of how bad this socialist system was going. So what happened is people started starving to death, and then he started saying it was the sparrows, you know, because now you got one communist madman who's in charge of a country. It's just he's making all the decisions now, right? So he decides it's the sparrows. That's why people are starving to death. It's these damn sparrows keep eating all of the crops, and that's why we don't have enough food. So he. He now which the entire collectivized, enslaved economy, this is all Maoism was. Was enslaving the entire country, literally. You didn't get to pick your job. They put a gun to your head and said, you now work in this collective farm. You now work in this factory. You didn't get to pick anything. Total enslavement of the population. So he decides to have everybody start killing the sparrows, but he's such a fucking retard that he doesn't understand that the pharaohs kill the insects that do this other thing that all is big ecology that result. You know, like, I don't understand this shit either, but I'm also not a communist dictator who's telling you to just go kill one species of bird. And so it resulted in this goddamn catastrophe where millions more people starve to death. Now, if you want to call that unintentional, Netanyahu's got a beachfront property to sell you in Gaza. It's about as unintentional as what Netanyahu just did to Palestine. It's unintentional like that. You know, like I. I come into your house, I put a gun to you and your family's head, and I force you to get into my basement. And then everybody's starving to death in my basement because there's not enough food. I'm well aware of it, and I go them. Let them starve to death. That's what Mao say. Tung did. Said in his own words, he could lose half his population as long as he achieved his goals. That's who you're. You're saying that wasn't intentional. And again, she has no idea what we're talking about when we say you're minimizing this, but that's the minimization of it, obviously. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Trollco. Let me tell you about a brand that actually gets it. Trollco was built by two guys from the oil patch who were sick of clothing companies pretending blue collar workers didn't exist. 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All right, let's keep playing. Is this on mute or is he.
- [35:45]
D
Sorry. I know, I know. Like, the tortured logic behind connecting me to like atrocity propaganda is so, so weird. I, I don't know how to, like, I don't know how to respond to it. I'm like, I don't, like, I have no. Like, I. I don't know what you want me to say. If you want me to say, like, no, he was a bad guy. He's the worst guy. He's the most genocidal guy in history. It's like, that's a fucking ridiculous statement. If you want me to.
- [36:13]
A
There. Okay, okay, okay. Just pause it right there. That's what we're talking about. I know. You don't know. I know. You don't know. You don't because you don't know stuff. You think that's a ridiculous statement? No, it's not.
- [36:25]
C
He.
- [36:25]
A
Look, objectively speaking, he's the worst. He killed more than anybody else. But subjectively speaking, look, I mean, this isn't really even a left right thing. You could be a pretty far right wing guy and still acknowledge that Hitler's Nazi Germany was a catastrophe. You could be a pretty far left wing person and still recognize that Stalin's Russia was a catastrophe. This is. You know, there's. I don't know what is there in the world. There's like 170 sovereign states or something like that. Over, you know, the history. There's been, like, hundreds and hundreds of different sovereign states. Like, three of them or four of them have ever gone this bad. It's like, amongst the. There is just no question that it's amongst the worst, most. He's amongst the worst, most brutal, most intentional genocidal leaders of all time. Now, I think, like, I would say he is the worst. I think if you were taking that word, like, I'd argue. It's like arguing. Michael Jordan's the greatest basketball player of all time. I think that's the correct argument. But someone else could take LeBron. Someone else could take Kareem Abdul Jabbar. You know what I'm saying? Like that. Someone else. But there's only a few who you could take. You run out of names real quick before you get to them. They're just like, no, you cannot say that one's worse. It's him, Stalin, and Hitler. Maybe you want to squeeze Pol Pot into the conversation or something, and if you're really being generous, I'll throw the North Koreans in there. But that's about it. Like, the most brutal genocidal leaders of all freaking time. Him, you know, okay, if you want to get into Genghis Khan and the way he conducted war and go. But like, no, so to just say here, oh, what do you want me to say? He was like, a genocidal, awful guy. That's ridiculous. No, it's not. And that's the minimization. And by the way, if someone said the exact same thing about Adolf Hitler, you would very clearly see that you're minimizing it. Right? Okay, so that's the point we're making. Again, read one thing about Mao not written by a communist. Here, let's keep playing truthful analysis.
- [38:33]
D
Like, there were a lot of excesses, a lot of excesses that led to millions of deaths.
- [38:39]
A
Okay, okay, pause it.
- [38:43]
D
This is a.
- [38:44]
A
Pause it. Okay, Hassan. There were a lot of excesses in Gaza. Okay. There were a lot of excesses in Gaza. Am I minimizing it, or am I really accurately describing what happened there? You tell me. You tell me. The excesses. The excesses were the mass murders. All right, let's keep playing.
- [39:10]
D
A consistent toll with rapid industrialization and collectivization that took place in. In the aftermath of every successful communist revolution. Pretty much every successful communist revolution. And part of that is because that collectivization and the industrialization didn't happen with 400 years of colonial exploitation and chattel slavery. And there were a tremendous, a tremendous.
- [39:39]
A
Oh, okay, so pause it, don't pause it. Oh, so that's. Oh, Jesus Christ, is that rich. Oh, so the only reason why. Okay, okay, so the reason. Now this is the cope Chattel slavery and imperialism. So that's why Mao had to torture all those people who, who spoke up against his political program. You know, it's just, it's because the west, the west had these advantages of imperialism and, and chattel slavery. I mean, look, I don't even know what imperialism he'd be talking about exactly in America. I mean, like there was some imperialism in South America and stuff. But you're talking about imperial industrial revol. Revolution. It's a pretty tough argument. I mean, obviously with the British and the French, they were empires for a long time, but not America. So that's not really the thing. Slavery. Connect that dot for me. You know, like, like even like in America, right. Like I don't know as much about England, but in America, right, Like the industrialization happened in the north. Draw me a straight line between where slavery gave us a bigger advantage. Well, hold on. There's one other difference that I could maybe think of. I mean, I'm sure it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that in the British and American industrial revolution the factories were owned by businessmen and in the Chinese and Russian industrial revolution they were owned by the central government. Maybe that has something to do with the power that the government had to starve tens of millions of people to death. You know, if a capitalist in England or in, in America wanted to get farm workers to come work at their factory, they had to offer them wages for it. Mao Zedong could just put a gun to their head and collectivize all the farms. Do you think that might have had something to do with why there was mass starvation and brutal authoritarianism there, that the government ran everything? Nah, it was probably just something white men did. It's just like, does this appeal to anyone except like 16 year old girls who are mad at their dad? All right, let's keep playing.
- [41:59]
D
Were tremendous amounts of mistakes along the way.
- [42:03]
C
Right?
- [42:03]
B
Right.
- [42:03]
A
Thank you. That's big of you to admit. Hasan.
- [42:09]
D
None of this is, I don't think this is like a. I don't know, I mean, this is just an analysis of what took place without just like, I don't know, without just being like, Mao personally did this because he just hates people he hates Chinese people. He. He wanted to kill as many as he could. You know, like, that is simply put, the major difference between Adolf Hitler and someone like Mao Zedong. But I s. I think part of the reason why this, this is a. A talking point is because they want to, like, they want to say, like, Mao did a genocide on purpose right here.
- [42:59]
A
Pause it. Most people, yes, listen, Matt did a genocide on purpose. It's a historical fact, this thing that they're doing. And, and God damn, I gotta say it is. And I know you guys have seen it, it's identical to the Zionists. It's identical where they just. They will insist that our motives are. Are pure. Your motives are not. This is, this is what, literally the opening of the debate, what Dennis Prager said to me and Jank Uger. One side wants peace and the other side wants war. You know, the thing about it is, like, they do this all the time. It's a, it's a, it's a game that liberals and leftists just love to play. They do it all through. Through Covid. You know, the difference is that Fauci just wants to heal people. They. They take their group of people and then if they're doing the policy that they want, their motives are. Cannot be impugned. Mao, dude, the guy was like a torturous madman. A complete, like one of the most sadistic people who ever lived. Loved the suffering of others. Know what, do you think he did it just because he hated China or like, somehow it would be okay? You could, you could murder a whole lot of people if you had your heart in the right place. Again, this is the whole world. This is how Hassan justifies himself, being a good guy, even though he's a rich kid who's a multi millionaire and lives this extravagant life. Because I have the good intentions. I fight for the poor. I'm not fighting for myself. As he takes another vanity spread. You know? You know, the thing about analyzing intentions is they're a little bit tricky, right? It's a little bit tough to analyze anyone's motivations. But the idea that like, this is the, the there's really something here that's the essence of something that, that leftists do, where no matter how brutal a leftist regime goes, they were misguided, mistakes were made, there were excesses. But if a right winger does something, then they wanted to do it and it was intentional. And that's the difference. Don't you dare just measure the amount of people that they've killed. Don't you dare for One second, you know. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Cowboy Colostrum. Summer is here, and if you want to actually feel confident, less bloated and more energized, you got to start with your gut. And nothing's better for that than Cowboy Colostrum. Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality bovine colostrum available in the United States. It's 100% made in America from 100% American grass fed cows. And unlike other colostrum brands, Cowboy is true. First day, whole colostrum, rich in bioactives and growth factors. And don't worry, Cowboy Colostrum only collects the surplus colostrum after the baby calves have had their fill. So you don't have to have a guilty conscience about this. And the stuff isn't stripped down or processed at all. It's whole colostrum, full fat and high in protein for ultimate nutrient density, making it the highest quality bovine colostrum you can buy. There's no artificial flavors, no fillers, just real whole ingredients. And they just launched their most indulgent flavor yet. Cookies and cream mixed with milk. It tastes like a nostalgic cookies and cream milkshake, but it's the same whole unstripped colostrum. No fillers or shortcuts. So try the new cookies and cream flavor for yourself. For a limited time, our listeners can get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head over to cowboy colostrum.com Dave and use the promo code Dave at checkout. That's 25% off when you use the promo code dave@cowboy colostrum.com Dave. All right, let's get back into the show anyway. Let's keep playing.
- [46:32]
D
Probably most people in America would probably agree with that. They would think that that's the case just so they can be like, oh, he's like shitting on Israel because they're, they're, you know, it's the Jewish state. Like, he's actually the real genocide supporter. The. The genocide that Mao did or something. You know what I mean?
- [46:54]
A
Yeah, well, it's. Well paused. Yeah, I do. I do know what you mean. And the thing is that it's not that much different, you know, I mean, look, it's the, the. It's not as bad because the genocide that you're talking about is actually happening right now. It's being done to real people by people in power right now. And so the people championing that, of course, are kind of Worse. You know, as I've said for years, it's worse to support what Israel's doing in Gaza than it is to deny that Hitler genocided the Jews. But he did. And if you deny it, you're still denying something that happened in history, as you're doing right now. What you're doing is indistinguishable from the people who deny Hitler's genocide. It's the exact same thing. It's in fact, it's literally what they say. It's literally what they say, that it. There were excesses, that it wasn't intentional. You know, the numbers are exaggerated. It's. It's all the same. You would say literally. And in fact, they claim they starved in the camps. It's literally what the. What the Holocaust night. Say they starved. It wasn't intentional. It was just starvation. It was. Is economic planning. I. I suppose. Anyway, let's keep playing, Man. He takes a while.
- [48:10]
D
Also good to point out that the violent industrialization efforts were a response to severe technological embargoes we put on China, then the, the then poorest country in the world. Yeah. Especially after literally a genocide that the Chinese, these people withstood in the hands of the Japanese, which we pardoned the war criminals who were responsible for doing the genocide. Like when people talk about Mao Zedong being this like, genocidal warlord Moss or whatever. No, there was a real genocide that took place equivalent in industrial scale and also equivalent in the intentionality of that Japan did to China, to the Chinese population. Like, there is a genocide that took place there, but Americans don't know. Americans don't know.
- [48:56]
A
Does he. I mean, dude, this guy's like, I don't know, man. He needs to like, detox and like, clear his brain out. So what is he saying? He said there was a real genocide that was bigger in industrial scale. Okay. And equally intentional. Equally intentional to what? Mao's genocide. I thought you just said it wasn't intentional. Was his intentional? But this one's equally intentional. But it was larger in scale. Ok. It was equally intentional and it was about a fifth in scale. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Yes, the Japanese invaded Japan and they were brutal. They killed something like 10 million people. I think the estimates are 10 to 15 million people. The estimate of Mao. How many Mao killed is like 40 to 100 million.
- [49:41]
C
Him?
- [49:41]
A
No, it was not bigger. No, it was not. It was also intentional, but it was like around a fifth of the size of his big. What are you talking about, dude? Like Crack a book. All right, let's keep playing.
- [49:55]
D
In the intentionality of that Japan did to China, to the Chinese population, like there is a genocide that took place there, but Americans don't know. Americans don't know about that either. Like that was an actual genocide.
- [50:12]
A
Okay, so pause it again.
- [50:13]
D
And the people.
- [50:14]
A
That was an actual genocide. So like, my God. So are you saying Mao didn't commit genocide? You started this by, by gasping, not understanding what the claim that you're minimizing this was. Now you're saying he didn't. Listen again, if your claim is that a lot of people think Mao committed genocide, but he didn't, then just why is this unreasonable for me to say? Then just own that fucking claim. But you started this by going date, like for example, right? Let's say there's someone who didn't commit a genocide. Not Mao, not a good example, but let's pick someone who didn't. Right? Someone who didn't commit a genocide, but everyone was under the impression that they did. And I was saying, no, he didn't. And then someone on the show said, he's minimizing, you know, the genocide that this guy committed. I wouldn't go, what is he even talking about? I have no idea what he's referring to. Before I said I don't think he did commit a genocide. Just come out and say it. You're saying that was a real genocide, an actual genocide was committed, but then a second ago you just said they were equal in intentionality. I don't know. Is it not reasonable for me to say. Can you guys just say what your position is and then own it it so we can argue. All right, let's keep playing.
- [51:35]
D
Committed that genocide we pardoned so that we could take all of their, their research on, on biological warfare, the research that we then deployed in Korea, where we did what I would consider and what many others would consider a genocide.
- [51:56]
A
Oh, we did. Okay, that's a genocide too. Korea is a genocide. Japan invading China is a genocide. But what Mao did is not a genocide. You're going to get into that at some point, actually make the argument why. Nah, just kind of feels, bro. All right, let's keep playing.
- [52:18]
D
Which is crazy.
- [52:24]
C
And I'm curious whether you as his uncle, have an answer to that question.
- [52:31]
A
Again, we don't speak for one another,
- [52:33]
D
so I don't like, like my attitude on Mao Zedong is not dissimilar to like every other, every other non genocidal figurehead throughout history where there's like, there's A lot of violence that took place. You have to look at why said instances of violence took place.
- [52:57]
A
Ok, and does it here, pause it for a second. Wow, dude, that's really, that's really deep. I look at now like every non genocidal leader there was violence and you got to look at why violence is taking place. Okay, but does it ever fuck with you that more people died under his rule than under anyone else's ever in the history of the world? Because that jumps off the page. Like, are you denying the numbers? Is Hasan actually denying the numbers? Because I don't. Like, like even in, in the, like the numbers are just so great in MA. China, like the, the estimations are like between 40 to 100 million people died. Like so, you know, like, I know like it in the debate with, with the, you know, like people who say the Holocaust revisionists. You know, if you want to go down a rabbit hole of like the David Irving stuff, which but I have, but I don't find particularly useful, I'm not recommending it. But if you want to go down that rabbit hole at the end of it, David Irving is essentially arguing that like 3 to 4 million Jews died, not 6 million, and that it was like Hitler didn't give the order himself or something like that. But there you're disputing over like a few. But when you get to Bassett, what is he even claiming? Like the lowest estimates are like 40 million people. Like no matter what you think the numbers are, they're the highest ever. There's. You're just not going to get to numbers that high. There is absolutely no way, using the most modest estimates of how many died under Mao and the highest end of how many died under Hitler that you get Hitler touching Mao. It just doesn't happen. I mean, unless I suppose if you're going to say that the entire Second World War and all the deaths in war. But if we're talking about, we're obviously here, we're doing apples to apples. We're saying not dying in war, we're saying dying at the hands of their own government. Because that is, you know, somewhat of a different category. So yeah, I mean, he's a. And even Hitler. Right. Like the war is usually not what people think of as his worst. It's. It's the genocide. Because there's something different about like killing your own people who you're responsible for. Not combatants in an, in a conflict anyway.
- [55:12]
D
Yeah.
- [55:12]
A
So. So you just treat him like any other regular old leader. Like, does that make sense to you? Do you he is saying, I look at Mous Tong the way I look at any non genocidal leader. Yeah, there was some violence there. So that's Hassan's analysis here that, you know, are you talking About Sweden in 19, you know, are you talking about Sweden in the year 2015? Or are you talking about London in 1995? Are you talking about New York City in 1979? Or are you talking about Ma Tong's China? They're all kind of like similar experiences, similar leadership, a little bit of violence there, you know, I mean, come on, how stupid is this? All right, let's keep playing.
- [55:59]
D
Know what I mean? And those guys literally had slaves and committed genocide on the indigenous population. Yeah, look at the good and the bad, you know?
- [56:20]
A
And tonight, the scandal surrounding Dr. Anthony Fauci continues to unravel now as newly released text messages from.
- [56:28]
D
Come on, bro, get to Lin. Get to Lin. What the.
- [56:32]
A
I thought I, I, I, there was one part. This is not still. All of this is not the clip that I saw earlier. So let's, let's keep playing.
- [56:48]
D
Oh, my lord. Yeah, it is also not. The irony is not lost on me. That fucking comedian Dave Smith's entire output is like, railing against Cancel Culture. And here he is literally doing that to be like, well, I don't really fully grasp what you're trying to say about Mao, know, So I think you should be cancelled for that.
- [57:18]
A
I mean, just pause it, pause it right there, pause it right there. I mean, dude, it is just, I don't know, I, it's, it's, it's cute when Hassan rubs all his brain cells together to try to get me in a contradiction. I have not spent all of my time railing against Cancel Culture. And I in no way called for Hassan to be canceled. I'm calling for you to, to fucking coherently state what your fucking position is, dude. Again, as I said earlier, I'm trying to share a platform with you. Not calling to cancel you. It's just like the cheapest, dumbest thing ever. You're minimizing the most brutal dictator in the history of the world and I'm calling you out for that. Not calling for you to get kicked off of a social media platform or banned from everything. I'm not even running from a debate. I'm trying to debate the topic. What an idiotic attempted point that was. Oh, yeah, comedian Dave Smith, he's against Cancel Culture, but now he's for cancel. No, just, no, there is absolutely nothing that I'm against that. I'm like, in favor of in this situation. I'm for embarrassing people with bad ideas who don't know what they're talking about. Still very consistently. Let's keep playing my wife's.
- [58:38]
D
When Lindy Li was younger, she protested in favor of Mao's China and railed against what she called slander against communist China. It wasn't until she did a right wing pivot that she claims Mao is evil. Yeah, she's a huge grifter. She also was a Bernard sister. She did the right wing pivot being like the anti Bernie. The anti Bernie Democrat. And now she's full blown right wing grifter.
- [59:03]
A
I don't care. Grandparents on both sides, grandfathers on both sides were in Shanghai. Checks army. They were generals in that army. They fought Mao, Right?
- [59:12]
D
Yeah, this is true. My aunt is literally from Taiwan, so.
- [59:16]
A
Okay, but you put family aside. I just don't agree with that. But guys, I don't agree with Tucker's positions on feminism. That doesn't mean I'm going to reject him as an ally in the anti war movement, in the American sovereignty movement. So, like, cancel culture. But remember, cancel culture against all of us. So you don't agree with him on now. I don't agree with him on Mouse. So what?
- [59:38]
D
No, no, no.
- [59:39]
A
But it's.
- [59:39]
C
It's not.
- [59:40]
A
Again, the point I was getting at, it's not to smear him or to cancel it. I just want people to stake out their positions clearly. And look, I get your point.
- [59:47]
C
Yeah.
- [59:47]
D
Here. Do you want my position? I don't think we should do the Great Leap Forward in America. I don't think we should do the cultural revolution. I'm not a Maoist, honest.
- [59:58]
A
Well, okay, all right, fine. So pause it right there. Yeah, okay, well, all right, fine. That's a good starting point. But I was more talking about staking out your position on Ma Tong and what happened there, and you clearly did stake out that position, at least to some degree here, that it wasn't intentional and it wasn't a genocide. Am I making this up? Guys, did he just say it wasn't intentional and it wasn't a genocide? Right. Pretty clear we got him on record for that. Okay, so that's. But what. Hey, you're saying we shouldn't do the Great Leap Forward here by. Just to be clear here, I don't think this is unreasonable for me to ask him to stake out his position. You gave me a little bit more here, even sarcastically. Are the communists out there listening? He does not believe in a Great Leap Forward. Okay, good. Decent Starting point anyway. Let's keep. Let's keep going.
- [60:45]
D
Not only am I not a Maoist, but I don't think that you could do a Maoist formation in this country anyway. You could do a Maoist revolution in this country In. In any case. So.
- [60:55]
A
Right, but what are you for?
- [60:57]
D
Like, what the fuck? What.
- [61:02]
A
Okay, pause it. So that's okay. But then. So what do you want to do? Okay, if you couldn't do a Maoist version of socialism, but what version is it that you do want to do? Again, I'm saying stake out your position, and you're going, I'm not for Maoism. What the fuck? Okay, what's your position anyway? Let's keep playing.
- [61:22]
D
Okay, there it is. Like, that's my position. Oh, no. Oh, no,
- [61:36]
A
Brother. Like, I think I probably agree with almost everything you said in that rant. It just never addressed, like, my concern. And like, so listen, obviously, like, what
- [61:43]
D
is your concern that you think I'm gonna make people like you think there's going to be a significant shortage in grain that is underreported by provincial leadership back to the Central Committee and that, like, millions will die in the process? At a time when, you know, there's not a lot of. There's not great technology. Not great technological leaps and bounds. Like what. Like, what do you.
- [62:16]
C
What do you.
- [62:16]
D
What is the argument here? What do you think is my secret mystery position?
- [62:23]
A
Okay, let's pause it here. I. I think you're a radical socialist who believes that the government should own the means of production and essentially all businesses, and that you'll keep working toward that goal. And. And my concern is that there's nothing but totalitarian nightmares on the other side of that. And that you can look at Ma. The fact that you can look at Ma. Like, let's just flip this around real quick. I mean, obviously, Hassan, if somebody were to look at Adolf Hitler, if somebody were to look at Benjamin Netanyahu the same way that you are sitting here talking about Mao Zedong minimizing, saying it wasn't intentional, it wasn't a genocide. You guys just don't understand the context. I want a different version of what his form of government was. You would have some concerns about that. No one would have to explain to you further why you would have those concerns. You're doing the exact same thing. You're doing the exact same thing. What are my concerns? I'm sorry. Like me and. And this entire country, we watched every advocate of universal health care openly muse and joke about how me and my family should be turned away from the emergency room if we ever need help because we made a medical decision that was correct. You talking about.
- [63:39]
B
About.
- [63:40]
A
I literally watch people like you champion the fact that we locked down the entire country and put people essentially on house arrest didn't made it illegal for them to have funerals for their father. I watched you champion that. I watched as I warned about instituting apartheid, medical apartheid for an experimental vaccine. And you mocked my concerns over it. So, yes, what I'm saying is that you, you are. Are a very dim witted, unimpressive authoritarian. And I think you, you will excuse away the most evil regime of all time. And that tells me that you'd excuse away a whole lot of evil. It's pretty straightforward. All right, let's keep playing.
- [64:29]
D
I mean, I think we're closer to that becoming a reality under Donald Trump, ironically enough, in 2026, which is far more impressive. You know, that's like with our current surplus of food, we could still engineer a famine here. That's how bad Donald Trump is. And these dumb fucks are talking about Mao. Dude, what the fuck is.
- [64:52]
A
Lee, as you know, I'm not the guy who's trying to smear someone for being an anti war critic. And of course you know that I know that. Of course a huge percentage of the opposition to. To your nephew and to mom Donnie, and all of this is just blatant Israel supporters who want to ruin him over that. And then we'll find any other thing they can to discredit them.
- [65:11]
D
I mean, that is true, though. That's literally true. Come on.
- [65:13]
A
The point is that Hassan has also given him a ton of low hanging fruit. And I'm asking the question about the mentality here because, brother.
- [65:20]
D
Yeah, you're saying it's working on me. Like, yeah, it's working on me. It is working on me.
- [65:27]
A
I am with you. If you're talking about funding A J, Pause it for a second. No, I'm not saying it's working. That's not what low hanging fruit means. Dude, you got to stop streaming so many hours and just read books and listen and think about. That's not what that means. Saying you're giving them a lot of low hanging fruit doesn't mean it's working. It means you're making it work. You are making it work. Saying you're giving them a. A lot of low hanging fruit means you're giving them a lot of easy to criticize, to make reasonable people go, oh yeah, it. This gu is crazy. This goes out of his Mind which he is. What do you mean? Yes, obviously a lot of the people who want to ruin you just want to ruin you because you're a critic of Israel and they'd like to ruin you over something else. Also, you're making their job very easy when you're sitting there minimizing the worst, most genocidal dictator of all time. This ain't rocket science. Let's keep playing genocide or fighting a stupid war on behalf of a foreign country that is bankrupting and destroying our country. And I'm with you on the fact that screw, screw any of them for getting morally outraged about anyone. You sit on the corpses of innocent dead children. You talk to me about any moral outrage about Owned by individual. Die by the is a movement on the left here who is flirting with these ideas as if they are serious. And I'm telling you right now, Cenk
- [66:51]
D
bro, bro was about to say, like, public ownership of key industries is the same as Mao. Ok? That's the. I realize now what he was gearing up for the argument is literally like, I was jokingly saying, like, what do you think we're going to do? The Great Leap Forward. Like that literally is his argument. And why is that his argument? Because we're talking about like nationalization of key sectors which literally already exists in social democracies that are capitalist, like Norway. And like moving in that direction or it happens in Mexico as well, moving in that direction is. Is actually the same as the Great Leap Forward. Okay, yeah, I mean, that's a stupid argument. At least it's somewhat of an argument.
- [67:39]
A
If these people like. I mean, you do notice right now if you pause it there, right? If you do notice how he just makes up an argument that isn't mine and goes, that's a bad argument. But it's. I mean, Hassan just. Again, this is why I was always surprised he blew up. He's just really not very good at this. No, no, I'm not making the argument that nationalizing industry is the same as the Great Leap Forward. I'm making the point that the Great Leap Forward was a huge experiment in nationalizing industry. That is true. It was a total experiment in the state owning everything. But the state owning more and more is a bad idea for the same reasons. Like, that is not an incoherent argument. It's actually a very good argument. And the more specific argument that I'm making, right, is that you need prices for an economy to function and you can only have them when you have private ownership of the means of production. Private ownership of business. You cannot have them when the state owns everything. And that's why you will end up with massive shortages, massive inefficiencies. Now if the sector that you take over happens to be, as in the case of mass now, every farm, then what you have shortages in and inefficiencies in is the production of food. In that case, people starve to death. And yes, if you were to collectivize the farms in America, it would have all of the same economic problems that it did in China for the same reasons, because the same economic laws exist here as exist there. If you want to find a flaw in that argument. Argument, go for it. But start with the actual argument, you fucking child. Let's keep playing
- [69:28]
D
different than at a time when like the fire department was privately owned, ok? The person making the argument that fire department should be public instead because, you know, the rest of the block that didn't have fire insurance was also catching on fucking fire. Okay, okay. It would be the equivalent of, of, of yelling and complaining that this is, I mean this predates communism. But like, it would be the equivalent of saying like, no, that's communism. We can't have that. Okay, yeah, Donald Trump purchased 10% of Intel. That's the, that he's doing it. He's the liberal natural enemy of Mao, to be clear.
- [70:10]
A
I mean, it's just, I, I just love this. We're talking about. This is Hassan Piker. Think of all the shit Hassan Piker said over the years. And then look at what a he is. Once he gets caught, he's retreated to fire departments. I just believe in fire departments. Donald Trump bought 10% of a company. Like, yes, and we oppose that. We oppose Donald Trump buying the 10 of a company. Didn't buy a hundred percent of it. That would be much worse. Like, I, I don't know what to say, but that's. Oh, that's the Hasan piker position. Now we, we went from what, minimizing Mao, say Tung and his collective ownership of everything down to, oh, you just want fire departments. I'm sorry again, like, he just, it's amazing how he oscillates back and forth within the few minutes of this, this video that we're playing. What minimizing? There was no intentional genocide, socialism. I just want a fire department or two. Okay, here, let's, let's keep playing before we wrap this up. Control of our Department of Agriculture. I'll be siding with the neocons against you because that's even worse. That's even worse than the War.
- [71:11]
D
Oh, man. He's like, oh, they're pulling, they're pulling. They're tugging on my arm here. They're making me side with the neocons because it's far scarier to have the Department of Agriculture have any control over agricultural output, which it currently does.
- [71:31]
A
Oh,
- [71:33]
D
by the way, way it does currently. But that's fine. But what if they did it in a scary way? Like in a communist style way?
- [71:42]
A
Warfare straight is real deal state socialism. The worst invention in the history of humanity by far. No. Close second.
- [71:50]
D
No, no podcast mics. Come on, bar none. No, it's the SM7B sure microphone. Let's be real. Atom bomb. No, no, no, no podcast mics. Hitler invented the microphone. Yeah, that's what Kanye meant. He was a real visionary when he said that ahead of time. He was, that was an anti podcast take. That wasn't a. People thought he was being pro Hitler, but he actually meant he was, was.
- [72:29]
A
All right, we could stop it here and cut this away. Natalie. I'll wrap up. I mean, let me just say about this last part here, and this is what I just find to be. And, and I think, honestly, I just think if you're being objective here, even if, and I, I, I really mean this. Even if you agree with Hassan piker on 100% of his political takes and you disagree with me on all of mine, like Mao say ton you, you think Ma didn't commit an intentional genocide and you agree with Hasan on everything else and you just think I'm like, like Austrian economics and my whole libertarianism is cranky nonsense or whatever, okay, fine. But even you, if you're just being honest, you should admit this is so slimy what he does here, it is so disingenuous that when I go, when I go, hey, look, if you're talking about, like, people who believe in, like, true socialism, worker ownership of the means of production or state ownership of the means of production or democratizing the workforce, all these ideas that you guys talk about. I go, man, if you ever got control of the Department of Agriculture. Now, if you guys might notice, we were talking about Ma Tong. I use the Department of Agriculture for a reason. I was saying if you guys were ever going to real deal, collectivize the farms, I'd side with neocons over you guys. No one's yanking at me, Hassan, I assure you. I just mean that because I understand what's happened every single time that's been implemented in response to this. Think about how dishonestly this is in response to this Hassan goes, oh, God forbid there should be an agriculture Department, and it has some level of control, but what. We're going to do it in a scary way. And he goes, there already is a Department of Agriculture. We already have this. Oh, excuse me. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize Hasan Piker was a moderate. I. I was under the impression that Hassan Piker was a radical socialist, basically leading meeting on communist. Now, I was under that impression because that's what he's said about himself for two decades, 15 years, whatever it is, that he's been here. He's always said that. He's always said that he is a radical socialist, has talked about collectivizing the means of production, but now all of a sudden, when I ask him to stand by that track record, he has to go, oh, what are you talking about? He's basically just Donald Trump. Just like, we should have one. Maybe they should tinker with things a little bit here or there. We're not talking about any revolution here, man. Oh, what, they're gonna. What are you so scared they're gonna do crazy communist stuff? Yeah, like collectivize the. The ownership. Yes, that's what I'm scared of. That is the difference. It is the difference both in authoritarianism, right? Look, if a factory worker, maybe you could argue. And this is the whole problem with democratic socialism in general, right? It's like maybe you could argue that there's some form of exploitation that like a factory owner could have on a factory worker or something like that, right? He could pay him less. He could make the working conditions not as good as they should be or whatever. But he can't go to the farm, have. Have a soldier get out, put a gun to his head and say, you no longer work there. You work here. Only a government can do that, and only a government ever has done that. And also the businessmen have to trade with each other and develop prices and de. And that's how you economize. You don't have that. People start starve. It's a disaster. If you want to argue any of that shit, fine. But all you can do in this video so far is pretend that Mao Zedong. You pretend you're not minimizing his. His atrocities when you clearly are. And then you. You just do this thing which all of the democratic socialists are doing, where you masquerade as a moderate. You just pretend to be a moderate as soon as you get called out on having to stand by any of those beliefs. And that's not. Cancel culture. That's just me saying you can't defend your own positions here, here. Don't act like you were just trying to get it there. No, we were just saying like, maybe one or two more regulations. Okay, if you were saying one or two more regulations, I disagree with that, but that'd be a separate argument. What you've been saying is workers of the world unite and all that you've been saying that you are for collective ownership of everything. So make it very clear and say it so all your commie listeners can hear you too. That actually, that's not what you stand for. That's not at all what we're even talking about.
- [76:51]
D
About.
- [76:52]
A
You're just being hysterical if you even think that's part of it. Look, man, there's a. There's. There's a reason why people are having this reaction to this type of stuff. And I'll just say, man, after.
- [77:15]
C
For.
- [77:16]
A
For so long in, In. In this country, you know, it was such an effort for kind of like the new media, for all of us to like, take on all of the COVID lies and all of the wokeism and all of the insanity over Russia Gate and, And you know, just all of the. Kind of like deep state corruption and all of this stuff and you know, to. To after all of that, allow some of these guys who were so bad on so many of those. Those issues to now come around and act like they've got some new idea. And the new idea is what? Minimizing communist atrocities while arguing that we go in that direction more. I mean, I'll do everything I can to expose this because, man, is it poisonous. But anyway, okay, I guess in closing, we really should. I know Hassan has expressed interest in doing this before. I'm very happy to do this. You know, I had said that I wanted to do it over the computer just so we could make it happen, but maybe it is worth doing like a live thing and making it a live form thing. I'd certainly be down for, for that. Any moderator Hassan wants to pick, we can debate whatever he wants to. All he's got to do is lay out what his actual position is, and then I'll argue against that. But I'm. I'm quite happy to argue against democratic socialism or any of this stuff. It's all just pure poison. And as you can see, I. I mean, I think as you listen to it, it's just like it's incoherent even as they. They describe it. It's. It's kind of like they can't keep up with their last thought. So, anyway, let's do it. Hasan, let's sit down. I think it'd be really cool, man. I mean, there's this big anti war movement, I think within the anti war movement movement, the critical of Israel kind of reject rejection of, like, neoconservatism and neoliberal foreign policy. I think me and you in some ways represent almost like the furthest socialist and the furthest capitalist kind of wing of that, however you want to put it. I think it'd be something that'd be really cool. I think it could be beneficial to, to all of our, our audiences. So let's, let's make that happen. Thanks, guys, for, for watching. Catch you next time.
- [79:18]
C
Time Peace.