Robbie Bernstein (7:38)

I think that that's all fair. And what I would take. The biggest issue with is just when we're out in the world and we're murdering in curse.

Dave Smith (7:49)

No, sorry. Did you. I don't know if that was me or you, but you cut out there for a second. Could you just. Just say that line again? We're out in the world is where I lost you.

Robbie Bernstein (7:57)

Yeah, I just. When we're out in the world and we're murdering innocent civilians, I don't really see the distinction between us and terrorists.

Dave Smith (8:05)

Yeah, well, I mean, the distinction seems to be like, well, do you have a military? All right, if you have a military, then it's not terrorism. Or, like, if you're an ally of America, then it's not terrorism, you know? Yeah. Just to give a little bit of a quick background on the stuff, because it's a little Interesting that as you know well, Rob, because you've been with me for years at this point. Yemen was an issue that really our camp was amongst the only groups caring about or talking about this for many years. It was from the end of the Obama, Obama administration through the entire Trump administration into the beginning of the Joe Biden administration. And in fact, when the Mises Caucus took over the Libertarian Party, this was like the first big initiative that we launched was this like calling your congressman campaign to get an end to the war in Yemen. And it wasn't really until after October 7th, by the way, I shouldn't say it's not just the anti war libertarians. There were like some small groups of good anti war leftists or like the, the Code Pink and the Quakers for Peace and people like that who talked a lot about the, the just humanitarian nightmare that was in Ukraine for many years and. But anyway, it wasn't really until after October 7th, when the Houthis started kind of fighting back and sticking up for the Palestinians, that the world started talking a lot about the Houthis in Yemen and how horrible they are and oh my God, they're attacking, you know, American cargo ships or what. But just so people know, this really goes back to the beginning of the Obama administration. And in 2009, when Obama first became president, he launched like a CIA drone war in Yemen. And it was pretty much, it was essentially, I think, one of the only theaters in the war on terrorism where the actual goal seemed to be a war on terrorism. You know, like at this point in Afghanistan, we were fighting against the Taliban and working on a regime change war there. We had already driven Al Qaeda out. Like, we weren't like fighting Al Qaeda really much anymore in Afghanistan. And while there may have been some Al Qaeda guys in the insurgency in Iraq, we were really there, you know, fighting to prop up the Shiite democracy that we had installed. And you know, in Libya, well, which I guess was, came a year later or two years later, we were there to overthrow the Gaddafi regime. Had absolutely nothing to do with, with the war on terrorism. And in fact, we were on the side of the bin Laden nights when we were doing that in Syria, we were on the side of the bin Laden nights when we were trying to overthrow Bashar al Assad. But in Yemen, at least in 2000, and really, I think up until around 2015, that did seem, that was the mission we were drone bombing AQIP in, in, in Syria. Now throughout that time, and it's pretty well documented, Al Qaeda AQIP being Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula. They, they grew in number. And, you know, for the same typical reasons that this always happens. It's General McChrystal's insurgent math, right? This was his famous 10 minus 2 equals 20. You know, you have some targeted strike, which is. We like to think of them as, like, these targeted strikes, but, you know, when you're on the ground, these are strikes that end up killing. You know, I think there was at one point, there had been a major study on Obama's drone war, specifically where the number they came out with was 96% of the people killed in the strikes were innocent people. And when you say innocent people, meaning they weren't the target of the person who was on the list, sometimes also the person on the list was wrong because it's not like, oh, you've had a fair trial for all these people and you figured out who are the terrorists and who are not the terrorists. You know, it's. But even by their own list, just assuming everyone on the list is guilty, if you want to, something like 95, 96% of the people killed weren't that. And so every time you have one of these strikes, you know, you kill three little girls and then all of their brothers and uncles and fathers and all of these guys join up with Al Qaeda because now they are, you know, radicalized to want to fight against America. So. So it's a completely counterproductive and evil fucked up, you know, drone bombing campaign for most of Obama's presidency. Now, just to keep in mind here, Yemen at that point already was the poorest country in the Middle East. Just murdering innocent people in the poorest country in a poor area. It's just, you know, whatever. Not to offend my debate competitor, Josh Hammer, but, you know, you do tend to get caught up in the morality of that a little bit. Like Jesus just murdering poor people in the poorest country in the Middle east sounds pretty fucked up. But where it really got bad was after that. And essentially like the, the Obama administration was propping up the dictator in Yemen at the time and using him for all types of like, like secret torture and shit like that. And eventually then he, even though he was a Shiite, he was at odds with the Houthis at one point. And then they later on, they ended up, like, joining up and kind of being on the same side when the Saudis and the Americans tried to get his second in command to take over for him. And the Houthis ended up gaining more and more strength and they, they started taking over more and more territory in the area. And the Saudis did not like this at all. The Saudis are enemies with the Houthis. And the Saudis were really upset at America. And they, they were upset at America at this point. For this is, we're getting into like late 2014, early 2015. They were upset at the Americans because number one, they were furious about the war in Iraq. Still, you know, if you remember, the Saudis were really our allies in the region who opposed the war in Iraq the whole time. But you know, the neocons wanted it and Israel wanted it. And so they won out and they got this regime change. The Saudis were furious because of course, the Saudis who are our Sunni sock puppet state in the region, their big enemy is Iran, the Shiites. And so they didn't care much for the idea that we would take out Saddam Hussein and then hand this majority Shiite country, this, their influence over to Iran. Like this, this hurt them in the region. So they were very upset about it. And then Obama turned around and made the deal with Iran. And so they were up. So. And again, you can Google these words and the several really good articles will come up if you just Google Obama, placate the Saudis. Because this is what Obama officials said was the reason that Barack Obama backed the Saudi invasion in 2015. Now the, the. Just to be clear, if you Google that, the articles that are going to pop up the. I'm not sending you to like read Dave DeCamp over@antiwar.com or to read Scott Horton or to read Ron Paul. I'm saying, like, there's articles from the Council on Foreign Relations, the New York Times, Reuters, the Associated Press, like, all of the, like this plot placate the Saudis. This was the official justification for why Barack Obama launched what turned into a war of genocide. Because we had to placate the Saudis, like the worst violators of human rights in the region, which is really saying something. We had to placate them because, like, sorry, we did that other war you didn't like. And then we made a nuclear inspections deal that you didn't like. So we'll help you launch a war against the poorest country in the Middle east for no reason, for no discernible reason that helps Americans. And just to be clear, I mean, what the Saudis did in Yemen was every bit as brutal, if not more than what Israel's doing in Gaza right now. I mean, maybe there's a smarter person than me who's really done like some academic papers on this to sit down. But I mean it was every bit, I think it was even worse because like, I think the total number of people who died was even worse. And I think just the fact that it was Saudi Arabia conducting the war, just, there just wasn't the type of pressure on them that there is on a first world country to be like, you can't get away with that, you know, like even Israel, you know, has to slow down on shooting the aid workers after a few weeks of bad press. But the Saudis again, with the help of the, of the US Army, I mean, for years we were like refueling their fighter jets mid path because they can't do it themselves. And they had help from our navy to put a full blockade around the country. And people died by the hundreds of thousands in the most brutal way. And the Saudis were also caught several times like barming farm, bombing farms, bombing sewage plants, bombing irrigation sites, like, but like just a war on the civilian population. And so in this whole thing, I mean, like, I know you read a bit about this during the time, Rob, because we talk about this all the time, there were like outbreaks of cholera where they're just hundreds of thousands of people got them. Of course cholera particularly ends up killing babies and old people and can be cured with like liquids. Like, I, I'm not sure, I don't even think you need antibiotics. I think like you, you need like, like Gatorade or whatever. But so there's just babies like vomiting themselves to death. It was the worst humanitarian crisis in the world for many years. I think at least from like 2015 through 2021, it was the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. And through all of this, the Houthis remained in power and I think they even just took over more control of the country and they simply outlasted the Saudis and won. And they'd be able a little bit like they had like some drones that could strike some oil, you know, sites in Saudi Arabia. And eventually like the Saudis just tired of it and they were like, we can't beat them. And they threw in the towel. And it was early in the Biden administration that the Saudis just kind of quit doing it. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Small Batch Cigar. I've been telling you about this company for a while. This is the go to place for cigar enthusiasts. If you love smoking cigars or if anyone in your life loves smoking cigars, go check out Small Batch Cigar. It is the place to order hard to find rare, limited and great cigars online. 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And so just to keep in mind here, and part of the reason why I say this is, like, I think it's almost everybody talking about the story today, like, kind of leaves out all that. It's just like you're supposed to in the same sense that like, October 7th is supposed to be viewed in a vacuum. Like, here was the nice little Jewish boys just in their, we were just trying to have a rave outside your concentration camp, you know, and then out of nowhere this happened. But like, no, there's actually a history and there's these things happen in context. And okay, so all of that happened. But I also say it not just to understand that there's the history of all of this, but I say it just to make the point that, like, the Houthis went through all of that and are still in control and are still trying to fight back. Now, many people, myself included, might say, jesus, why the hell are you guys doing this? Like, haven't your people been through enough that you're going to bring more of this on them? But that's not really the point. The point is that an entire blockade and a brutal bombing campaign for eight years wasn't enough to take these guys out of power or to slow them down? And what, we think dropping a couple tomahawks is going to do it? No, it's going to do nothing except kill people. We're just like, unless we were actually committed, don't get Me wrong. If the US Military, if we wanted to invade Yemen the way we invaded Iraq, okay, we could probably overthrow the Houthis. But if we're not talking about doing that, we're just talking about murdering some people so we can feel good about ourselves. So that's kind of like the. Now, after October 7th, they did start, like, attacking ships, you know, and they. They were like, hey, we're. On behalf of these poor Palestinians, we're going to not let Israeli ships go through here and also some American ships. And, you know, you can feel about that, however you feel about that. But I would just point out that during the ceasefire, there were no Houthi attacks. And it wasn't until the ceasefire broke down that they started doing it again. And so, to me, it does kind of lead to some of these questions. You know, I know a lot of the, like, pro Israel conservative types, while they love to lecture you about moral relativism on every other front, when it comes to this, you're never allowed to say, like, okay, I mean, look, it's probably not great that the Houthis are attacking ships, but at the same time, why does no one have a right to stand up for the Palestinians at all? You know, I mean, Israel gets attacked on October 7th, and they get to do this, and yet the Palestinians have to endure all of this, and no one has a right to, like, close down some shipping lanes or something. Again, I wouldn't say no one has a right to do it, but it's just like any. Look, I guess it's just very clear. It's like, oh, so this is another cost associated with supporting Israel's slaughter of Palestinians. So that we now also have to. Right. Which is like, the whole story of US Foreign policy always. We now have to, once again, we have to take on Israel's problems and make them our own. Now we are in this beef, which is so clearly has nothing to do with us and has to do with what Israel is doing to the Palestinian people, which is objectively horrific. But now, because we're the ones funding that and arming that and giving it diplomatic cover, we now find ourselves in yet another conflict. The last thing that this country needs, and one of the things that Donald Trump ran and won on twice, was the idea that we don't need more conflicts like this. And then, of course, we're right back in another one. So I guess that would be. I mean, I know it's just a bit of a rant, but I think it's kind of like it's Worth it to get that out there. But I just can't, I can't overstate how horrible a decision this is by Donald Trump and how, how much it's like the, you know, it's like people would say for a while, they'd be like, oh, stop bitching about all his bad appointments, you know what I mean? Like, focus on the good ones or something. It's like, now this is what happens when you surround yourself with a bunch of war hawks who are giving you bad information. So I don't know, any thoughts on any of that? Rob, feel free to jump in.

Robbie Bernstein (24:46)

I hadn't quite considered, I guess, the Houthi Palestine tie in and that this was in response to what was going on over there. I guess I was more just looking at it from the why are we now in the business of killing innocent civilians? And I just find it surprising that if there's these multi billion dollar trade routes and it's important to multiple countries that there's not a way of securing the trade route. I mean, if you're telling me that we're both aligned with China and nearly every country in the world about keeping this trade route open, there's really no way of just sending a bunch of ships in there or a bunch of submarines in there and maintaining the trade route without having to bomb areas of Yemen that include killing civilians. It just, and speaking to your point of what does this actually accomplish? So are we starting a war with Yemen? Are we just, it seems like the strongman shit of, hey, we're going to bomb innocent civilians in your territories and maybe take out a couple leaders here and there until you actually acquiesce and give up, doesn't seem to work. Or, I don't know, where's the example of that working so far?

Dave Smith (25:53)

Or like, is it, is there ever a point where we don't have to just kill innocent people to make this? Like, is there ever a point where like, we've killed enough innocent people that it's like, I think they got the message. I think they realize that we're willing to do this. It's always just, it's like, no, we got to show toughness. We got to let them know. But again, you know, to my, to my major point here, look, the idea, again, Yemen, which was all had started as the poorest country in the Middle east at the beginning of this, before going through the worst humanitarian crisis in the world for many years, they went through all of that and then still stuck up for the Palestinians when Israel started its assault on Gaza. And you think, like, a couple Tomahawk missiles are going to change that calculation? I mean, I. I don't think there's any serious person even in D.C. who believes that. Like, all right, they got the message, like, they needed to be smacked around, and now they won't mess with our ships anymore. And I think I just read the. Just earlier today that they vowed to continue or something like that. It's like, yeah, of course. Of course they did. Like, this isn't going to stop them. So what on earth is the point? Like, why. Why would we be doing this? And. And again, it's like, with all of these scenarios, every single war, they can never. Whether we're talking about Iraq, Afghanistan, whether we're talking about Libya or Syria, whether we're talking about Yemen, whether we're talking about Somalia, if you're talking about Ukraine, if you're talking about Israel's war in Gaza, nobody can ever clearly articulate why we're taking this action, what the end game is, and what our strategy is to go pursue that end game. And, like, where. Where it's like a reasonable end game. Whenever they give you an answer to that, Rob, it's something like, we're going to drive Putin out of Crimea. And you're like, okay, yeah, but that can't ever happen. Or democracy is going to sweep the region. Or, like, it's always these goals that are just, like, on their face. You're like, yeah, but that's completely unachievable. There is no chance. There is a zero percent chance that you will achieve that goal. That it's. No, never. Just kind of like, okay, so we dropped this. Okay, so we killed. Whatever. I think it was 53 people we killed in this last strike. Okay. And we had to do that because why. What's the next step after this? Well, I guess the next step is that Trump threatens Iran and says that they are going to. There'll be devastating consequences and that they are responsible for what the Houthis do, which is like, just doesn't even make any sense at all. I mean, you would only. I mean, don't get me wrong, I understand why it makes sense to the insane neoconservatives and the insane Likudniks and the insane, you know, like, evangelical Christians who think that, like, protecting, you know, the Jews in Israel is what's going to bring Jesus Christ back. Or the insane, like, Jewish supremacists who think that everything should be run around what, you know, the state of Israel. Okay, I get there, because they just want to topple the government in Iran. That's why they all support it, because they just want to move closer to the regime change that they've always really wanted, which is the one in Tehran. Okay, so that's why they support it. But short of that, if you weren't trying to get us into another catastrophic war in the Middle east, like, if you didn't hate the United States of America and want to see this country's destruction, then why would it make any sense to start saying that Iran is responsible for anything the Houthis do then? No, nobody really believes that the Iranians have complete puppet like, control over the Houthis, and they can decide what they're going to do or what they're not going to do. I mean, like, imagine if you were to take that, that line with any, with the United States of America ever. You were to say, okay, well, you guys, you know, we, our government props up the Saudis and the Jordanians and the Egyptians and the Israelis and the UKRA and all the, all the governments that we fund and contribute to are if we were to say we're now responsible, you know, when the Saudis murdered that Khashoggi, murdered that journalist guy and cut him up or whatever you say, I hold Joe Biden responsible for that. That's not, like, why. The only reason why you would even start thinking like that is if you were trying to bring America into a wider war, which has always been the huge risk since October 7 and since the decision to start, you know, backing Israel's assault on Gaza, this has always been the biggest risk. And now it's like Donald Trump is just, it's. He's walking into this trap and seems to be willingly doing it. So, you know, there's been, there certainly has been some positives of the Trump administration so far, but, man, is he flirting with throwing all of that away, all of that away right now. And then even just aside from, you know, the, Aside from the kind of potential disasters that could come out of this. Yeah, you know, just this in itself, just killing a bunch of innocent people. I mean, I know this is the United States of America, and we've gotten so used to that. Like, that's just part of what our government does. But isn't it something that the government can just, like, take an action that's going to kill, including several children reportedly were killed in these strikes. And, like, we're, it's just. I don't know. It's so crazy to me that that murdering children wouldn't be Something that collectively as a society we go like, well, man, I mean, if you ever have to do that, then there's a serious process that we go through. And that process involves laying out the case of why you absolutely have no other choice but to do this. But no, Donald Trump just decides then. Isn't it interesting, you know, Daryl Cooper had a great, a great post about this the other day. But isn't it interesting, right, that there's no judge, there's no congressman, there's no cable news show host that will ever even dream of like making this the issue, you know, like, whoa, the President is just like committing an act of war. He doesn't have to consult anybody but like his donors or something like that. He doesn't even have to talk to anybody in Congress. He doesn't, you know, you hear all this stuff about like, Elon Musk is auditing usaid. This is outside, you know, this is anti Democratic. He doesn't have the authority to do that. But yet when it comes to making war, just crickets, you know, even like the Democrats who are always talking about Trump is Hitler and he's this and that and he's an authoritarian end of democracy, no one really cares when it's just murdering kids. There's something so profoundly sick and backward about all of that. And I don't, no matter how much it happens, that will never be normal to me. I'll never get used to that and just go like, yeah, well, I mean, you know, come on, there were little brown kids in a third world country. I mean, who cares? You know, like, yeah, I don't know. Sorry. I still think that's profoundly horrible. Just an awful thing to do. Especially when you're doing it like with no, no clear cut reason as to why this absolutely had to be done. And to your point that you made before, I mean, just like, I'm sorry, there's just there, there are, there are other ways to protect shipping lanes other than just constantly being in a state of slaughtering innocent people. I just don't believe otherwise. By the way, just the money we spend on the bombs, you know, we could, we could probably just pay off people to be able to ship for less money. So it's all just terrible. And you know, again, it's not, it's nothing that any of us should really be shocked by. I mean, this is Donald Trump. You know, Donald Trump, he backed the Saudi war against the people of Yemen for every single day of his first term. So I don't think he's going to be moved over like some innocent people in Yemen got killed. I mean, he seems to be quite comfortable doing it. And. Yeah, anyway, we will see. We will see where all of this goes. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is crowd health, a company I've been telling you about for years. Years. They are amazing. They are a decentralized health care payment system that frees you from the tyranny of health insurance. If I were to ask, if I were to survey a hundred people and ask a hundred of them, hey, on a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you love your health insurance company? I highly doubt I would get a single 10 because nobody is happy with health insurance. The system is broken. The companies are broken. There's a lot of problems with them, largely the government intervention. But now there is truly an alternative to health insur. And that is crowd health. It's significantly less expensive than health insurance. It rips out the bureaucracy of the middleman, some say is upward of 40% of the costs. Plus, the people who have joined crowd health take personal responsibility over their health care. That means they take care of themselves. Singles are just $185 a month. A family of four is $605 a month. And if you use the promo code POTP, you can get $99 a month per person for the next three months. Go check them out. If you're tired of the health insurance system and you're looking for an alternative, check out crowd health. Crowd health is not health insurance. It's a totally different way of paying for health care. Terms and conditions may apply. Check them out@joincrowd health.com and make sure to use the promo code POTP to get that deal. $99 a month per person for the next three months. All right, let's get back into the show. All right, let's. Let's switch gears a little bit because the other big story that I do just find fascinating, and this is what we were arguing about on Piers Morgan today, is this, this auto pen claim that Donald Trump is making. I'll let you go first on this, Rob, because I've ranted a lot on the first topic, but I find this fascinating in a lot of ways. What are your thoughts on this claim by Donald Trump? First, at least maybe, like lay what it is and then give your thoughts on this, this claim about the Joe Biden pardons.

Robbie Bernstein (36:41)

All right, well, the claim is we all know that Joe Biden had dementia. We've all been yelling, who was actually running the White House, especially in the last two years that he was there. And on the way out, Joe Biden gave a number of preemptive pardons, which is rare. It includes it, Liz Cheney and others that were on the January 6th panel. And then of course, to his own family member, Hunter Biden, among. Among some others. But I think those are. Yeah, all of the. Oh, yeah. And then Fauci also got a preemptive pardon. It was later discovered presidents make wide use of an auto pen and don't frequently actually sign documents. Now, the oddity in Joe Biden using the auto pen is that it seems that his when he dropped out of the race, that that letter was actually signed by him, whereas everything else was seemingly signed by the auto penny. Now, the question being put forward is, was Joe Biden even aware that the auto pen was in use? Did someone else just put make these documents and sign them? Or if he was in a state of dementia, was he actually aware of the usage of them? And if a automatic auto pen is being used by the White House and it's not actually being used by a president or a president that's aware, should that stand? So that's the background of the story. Now, my guess is this is a fun little shitstorm from Donald Trump. And I absolutely think that amongst the things that should be happening is the last administration should be investigated, specifically Fauci, and whether or not there was a criminal behavior that took part took place in fraud, in selling the COVID vaccines and acquiring that virus from China. I'll put it in those terms. And then as to whether or not Liz Cheney or others, that one's a little bit more of a potentially a political witch hunt and the losing game of administrations going after previous administrations. But fine, maybe they played dirty first. And so it makes sense to expose the deep state working against Donald Trump's best interest. I'm all for going after the previous administration specifically for illegal behavior and specifically on the Foushee category, or if you can prove financial crimes by the Biden family that are close to treasonous, I'm all for it. I think proving that Joe Biden's awareness about the usage of the auto pen sounds like a difficult legal uphill battle, because what are you going to do, bring him into court now? I don't know. Well, how do I know when he did or didn't know? How do I know when he lost his agency? Is there someone who's going to actually testify against the administration that he specifically didn't know about the Usage of the auto pen. So to me, specifically, the auto pen thing is a fun little shitstorm of a storyline. And right now, Donald Trump probably needs bigger wins than actually just going after the old administration. I think the public is not that interested in prosecuting Biden as much as they're interested in knowing that tariffs aren't gonna ruin our economy or that we're not gonna be in World War three with Europe. I think people are a little bit more interested in actually Donald Trump enacting his agenda versus cleansing the old administration for what we voted out. Cuz it was terrible. But this is a fun shitstorm. I'm all for investigating specifically. Foushee is top of my list. And get your prosecute Foushee T shirts. It's top of my list of what I think we need to do to cleanse the country. I can't imagine that this holds up in court of that he's actually able to undo it because we can't prove that Biden knew that it was happening.

Dave Smith (40:01)

Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I can't really disagree with anything you said there. I think that's. That's exactly right. It does seem, particularly given the fact that I think a lot of presidents use the autopen, including Donald Trump. At least that's what I've heard. Heard. I'm not actually sure if that's right or not. There is something. It's still so much fun. And part of it is just because like, this is the price that the Democrat establishment has to pay. This is the albatross around their neck that will be around their neck for quite a while. This is essentially, this is your punishment for propping up a senile president, is that only with him, with anyone else, like, you could never get away with this if you were saying this about Obama or saying this about Trump. But with Joe Biden, it's just like when you start saying, oh, he used the auto pen, you have a real issue there because you're like, there. I just. There is no way that he knew what he was signing. And it brings up a lot of things like, you know, the way he dropped out of the race and how sketchy that was and you know, like what really happened there. So it's kind of, it's, it's smart politics in that sense to just kind of. It makes you focus on that huge scandal again. And then of course it does. Look, you'd, you'd. I completely agree with you, what you just said. I think most people are probably more concerned with kitchen table issues, although I would Personally think that, like, prosecuting Fauci is very high on. On the list of things we should do because the crimes that were committed were just so egregious and the people at the top should pay for all of that. Said, I think you'd have to admit, even if you disagreed with, even if you think Fauci did a great job or you think Biden was great, or you hate Donald Trump, you think he's the devil, you got to admit, just like on the politics of the thing, it also just. Any chance you get to bring up the fact that he gave Fauci a blanket preemptive pardon is so. It's such a loser politically. Like, that just stinks of corruption. And then when you think about, like, what the message on that actually is, it's one thing to say that you don't think Fauci committed any crimes and you suspect that the next administration is going to vindictively weaponize the justice system and go after him. But when you give a blanket pardon preemptively, essentially what you're saying is that even if he committed any crimes, I still don't think he should be charged for that, because what if there were crimes that he committed that you didn't know about? You know, and that comes out. And, and so there's just something so dirty about that. And, and look, in the case of Fauci, in the best case scenario, it's a gray area. You know, like, I mean, he clearly, he testified before Congress that the NIH did not fund any gain of function research, and yet subsidiaries of the NIH were funding the lab where gain of function research was done. Now that I'm just, I'm sorry, but that is best case scenario a gray area. Best case scenario, like, I take that, and I think that's clearly lying to Congress people. When you're on an enemy's list of Congress people have been prosecuted for way less. People have been prosecuted for lying to Congress when they got a month wrong about a business deal. You know, you said June, but it was January. And I've seen cases like that where it's like, yeah, but it was another J month. I got confused and I said the wrong thing. They're like, sorry, lied to Congress. So don't tell me that. Like claiming you never funded gain of function research when you did fund the lab that was doing gain of function research and then trying to redefine gain of function research away. Don't tell me that that's a legit defense. I know that's fauci's defense, you redefine everything. Vaccine, gain of function, it all means something different than what we thought. But it's just another reminder of this. And it is one of the things that I find interesting is that if, and I agree with you, I think legally speaking, and I'm. No, you know, I don't have any legal expertise, but I do agree that it seems right what you're saying to me that that's an uphill battle. I mean, imagine trying to prove in court that Joe Biden, again, like you said, you said it perfectly. Even if he was senile now and can't remember any of it, that doesn't prove that time he didn't know it. How the hell are you actually going to prove that? Seems very difficult to make. But what it is doing is like letting the public know that, like kind of floating out the idea, hey, maybe they don't really have pardons, you know, like maybe Fauci and Liz Cheney, maybe all these people don't really have that. And if so, what's the appetite to actually go after them? You know what I mean? Like, it just, I just like the idea of inserting that issue into the public. I think there's something positive about that. And it's just another opportunity for Donald Trump to remind everyone of the scandal that was the emperor's new clothes Biden presidency, which is wise. I have a joke about this in my act, but it is almost like there is a weird way in which the Democrats and Joe Biden benefit from the fact that Donald Trump just sucks all the oxygen out of the room. And so the story of the day is always whatever Donald Trump, Trump did now or whatever someone, you know, Elon Musk did a Nazi salute or whatever. Like the story of the day is, is always done. And then that does in a way distract from what is gotta be up there with the biggest scandal in the history of the United States of America, that we had a non functioning president for years and that it was totally covered up by the media. And you know, I think any time Donald Trump's kind of reminding Americans of that, it's, it's good politics for him. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show. It's a new sponsor who we're thrilled to have on board. FG soap for dirty mouths and clean bodies. Did you know many commercially available soaps are actually classified as detergents due to their use of synthetic ingredients? Stop it. You deserve better. Your skin deserves good soap from fgsoap.com Handcrafted in small batch process, most FG Soap bars contain only seven natural ingredients and they start at just $7 each. FG Soap was started in 2018 in Portland, Oregon with one purpose in mind. To create a better bar of soap and give big soap the middle finger while doing it. Good soap is not just the name of the company, it's a promise. 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Robbie Bernstein (47:22)

Show while it's good. Politics. I'd like to actually see some execution on because I've been joking that Donald Trump. It's a lot of just clickbait, clickbait presidency. We'll float a storyline like this and you'll get really excited, like, wow, are they actually going to prosecute Fauci? And then that'll be the end of the conversation about it.

Dave Smith (47:41)

Yep.

Robbie Bernstein (47:42)

Specifically talking to Biden's dementia, I was saying while it was happening, I think you guys can probably find clips in year one and year two of his presidency of whoever's around him that is masking for this should be held criminally responsible. And I'd love to see, you know, those people brought in front of Congress and giving testimony about what his actual behavior was. Because if you've been around with people with dementia, it can become very obvious. Like, they have moments. You're like, oh, the guy's still there. And then when you put him down in a chair and he's like, are we still going to that dinner? And you're like, I just brought you back from that. Oh, okay. And I'm willing to bet that people were around him and saw moments like that. And, you know, I don't know if you were a surgeon, let's say, and you were an alcoholic and I was your wife and I wanted you to continue to have that job. And so in the morning, I'm helping you get dressed up and I'm giving you some alcohol so that you don't have your wobbly hands. And then you kill someone in surgery. The person that. That's an accomplice at that point because you're masking it. And so maybe there's no crime of being president with dementia, but I think there should be. And I think if you're incapable of doing the job and you're making decisions that are harmful for the entire country, there should be accountability for that. And whoever's masking it, particularly if the guy has dementia, then he doesn't really have agency. I mean, that's not a guy who's really using his higher consciousness to mold or make decisions. So whoever's actually masking it for him is the person with agency. And those people should be held accountable. And then whoever was actually running, you know what I mean? All of this should be investigated or at least paraded in front of the public.

Dave Smith (49:13)

Yeah, well, that's right. And I don't know even that they can be prosecuted. I agree with you. That should be a crime, you know, but at least they could be made to pay a serious, you know, social cost for it. And no, you're absolutely right. I mean, this was the thing that was so laughably absurd about the sharp as attack line, which is what everybody went with up until that debate, like, literally just a few days before that debate, when it became them, when they stopped pretending, but that you would go, and. And anybody who's ever been around an older family member who's gone senile, very sad thing to watch. It's truly tragic. I know you've been around it, Rob. I've been around it with family members, but to see Joe Biden and to see him lose his train of thought and get confused and not know where to exit every time he exited a stage and to not know what state he was in and to not know, you know, like, when you watch all this, and then to have everybody go, no, behind closed doors, he's sharp as attack. It's like, yeah, that's not how dementia works. Like, I'm sorry, dementia does not just, like, come about when you're in front of the cameras every single time and then go away and show no signs. And, my God, the things that people must have witnessed behind the scenes. I mean, you know, it's. It's. Yes, this was an open secret. And, you know, really, one of the people who was very much implicated in that was Kamala Harris, who was out there saying that she was having weekly meetings with Joe Biden and that she was involved in all the most important, important decisions and that she was the last one to leave and that she spent all this time with him. And it's just. I'm sorry, it's just. It's beyond. It's beyond anything that anyone could plausibly believe. For her to claim that she never saw any signs of, of this guy's, you know, mental decline. It's just nobody believes that. And she doesn't believe it. None of her supporters believed it. Her chief of staff doesn't believe it. Nobody buys that. And so there should be some type of price pay for that because, my God, what a crazy thing to do, you know, to just not have a president and then be lying to everyone. Anyway, you know, we've talked about it a lot, but it's. I think it's always good when this topic comes back up. All right, let's. Because we got a little bit of time left, let's play a little bit. By the way, I did find this really fascinating, but so there were, there were a few clips that were great. I've not watched the whole thing because I don't hate myself that much. But Don Lemon was on Bill Maher's podcast and had a few just like incredible moments of just seeing into the. A window into the dumb soul that is Don Lemon. These things are so one of the things that's really fascinating is that people, now that the corporate media has collapsed, and then you've kind of seen this. You know, you've seen some people who were able to either reinvent themselves or were just good enough at what they did so they could keep doing it. Like Tucker Carlson could just keep going and doing what he was doing. You know, Piers Morgan, I think, kind of reinvented himself in a way to have a very relevant show. Now. He was, he was smart enough to figure out what this new media landscape was, what people wanted, what type of show he could put on, that they'd be good. And then you've got the Chris Cuomo's and Don Lemons of the world who like, pride their hand at coming over into this world. And it's almost like they're still playing the old game and it's just really funny to watch it just collapse and not work. So anyway, on that note, let's go, let's first, let's go to the one that I sent first. And then if we got time, we'll. We'll play some of the other ones as well, because there were a few good ones there. But let's check in on old Don Lemon.

Robbie Bernstein (53:21)

Your show's on YouTube.

C (53:22)

It's a different mechanism. It's the same thing, though. It's a lot more people watch you on YouTube than watched you on CNN. I think now. I think they. Well, you don't know the answer to that question. No, no, I do know the answer to that question. I think, you know, in my early days on cnn, I would say more people watch me on cnn. And then also when I was there, it was different time. I think more people watched me on cnn.

Dave Smith (53:45)

I don't know.

C (53:46)

I think more people watch me now. But I think the highest point of CNN was during COVID and we had Covid and George Floyd at the same time and Donald Trump, and that was the height, that was the highest ratings, the most profitable of cnn. And so it was amazing to be there. People watched every night and they sort of relied on us. Because you were stuck.

Robbie Bernstein (54:04)

Your show's on YouTube.

C (54:05)

It's a different mechanism. It's the same thing, though. It's a small screen.

Dave Smith (54:08)

All right, so, by the way, I do not think he's right about that. I think CNN had higher ratings periods before that. But regardless of that, Rob, isn't that something? Isn't that such an admission? What are your thoughts?

Robbie Bernstein (54:25)

Well, it's infuriating to listen to. Firstly, he's such a dumbass. And it's funny the way that Bill Maher is a little bit cunty because off the bat he's like, wait, you don't know the answer to that. How do you not know? You were there?

Dave Smith (54:37)

Which he definitely does. He definitely knows the answer to that.

Robbie Bernstein (54:40)

They told you the ratings, and you can look at your YouTube counter and you can probably speak to a better expert of how accurate the CNN ratings are and how much of it is gyms and airport and how many people are actually watching it.

Dave Smith (54:51)

Right.

Robbie Bernstein (54:52)

Versus the accuracy of the YouTube counter. And then also when he talks about that during the COVID era, it was exciting because so many people were tuning in. But then also the profitability. I don't know that that's all ratings, as much as that could be. The pharmaceutical companies were pretty interested in the continuing selling of that story. And you kind of see the circle of interest all getting along there of CNN sells the story. They make more money, more people tune in, more people are scared. More people tune in, they make more money. The advertisers want to spend more there. And I'm not saying that Don Lemon's smart enough to participate in that circle as much as be the face that they'll slap on the screen and say, read these words and only these words. Because if you say anything else, it's pretty clear that you're anchorman. But, you know, I think there's something gross about the casualness and all of a sudden him being pragmatic and going, well, it was fun to be there at that time because everyone was tuning in for manufactured nonsense.

Dave Smith (55:52)

Yeah, well, that's the thing, right? You know, I was. When I was on Piers Morgan today, I started arguing with that Julie Roginski chick a little bit at one point. She said. She said something. I mean, she just doesn't know me. We did some shows together back in the day at Fox News, but I don't think she really knows anything about me. But I said something about Foushee and how he should go to prison. And she was like, oh, you want to. You want to re litigate 2020 now? But what you don't want to Talk about is January 6th. What you don't want to talk about is Ukraine. What you don't want to talk? And I was just like, yeah, Julie, that's. You're barking up the wrong tree with that one. Like, I don't know, people could accuse me of a lot, but not wanting to talk about Ukraine isn't one of them, you know? And then I said to her at one point, I go, no, you know what I think Julie probably doesn't want to talk about is, where were you in the summer of 2020? What were you saying back then? Let's. Let's argue whether you were right or wrong about that. And I'll argue with what I was saying back then. What were you saying when the vaccine was first reported, rolled out? What were you saying? You know, it's like, well, it's so funny that Don Lemon would say, oh, we had the highest ratings at this time. It was such a fun time to be around. And you, like, the counter is. You almost want to go like, okay, what were you pushing back then? And how much of it can you stand by now? Because, like, I'll tell you, man, you go. You go look at and look. I'm not saying, like, I've done this recently, Dom. Pretty confident. And I think people have been listening to this show for a while. Be pretty confident. Like, you could pluck an episode out from, you know, August of 2020. Me and Rob could sit down and watch it, and we'd be pretty happy with where we were and be like, yep, we were pretty much right about the biggest issues. You know, like, I'll stand by that. I'll still go argue that lockdowns are wrong and stupid and that they did way more damage than anything positive that came out of them. I'll still argue that, like, the the nationwide riots were, like, horrific and. And, you know, shouldn't have been defended. I'll still like all of this stuff. I remember this later in the year, but I remember the week. The week of the Hunter Biden laptop coming out. I remember me and you sitting down and being like, this is obviously his laptop. And the claim that this is Russian. Russian disinformation is just clearly a lie to distract people. And it's like, oh, yeah, yeah. You're like, oh, yeah, the ratings were good when the country was locked down. Can you still defend lockdowns? Because you were defending them at the time. Can you still defend that? Okay, the ratings were good when you were defending Black Lives Matter and calling them fiery but mostly peaceful protests. You still want to defend that? The ratings were good when you were claiming Trump was a Russian spy. Do you still want. It's like, oh, yeah. So you got ratings off a bunch of fucking lies, like, and people woke up to them eventually anyway. And then there's just the dishonesty of. I don't even know what are the YouTube numbers like? As if anyone in this game has no concept of whether their ratings are higher or lower than they were a few years ago. It's all just kind of ridiculous. Here, let's go, go, go to the one that I texted to the group, Natalie, let's play the. The one that. Because it's so funny how, like, it's just. It's just amazing how much. And this is a huge part of the reason why the podcast world took off and the corporate media world died. But just there are so many shows like this now. And just, like, the level of conversation is. I don't know, it's at least 30 IQ points higher than whatever the hell is happening on. On cnn. And to look at Don Lemon here again, what's interesting about Don Lemon is kind of like Chris Cuomo is that the. The. He wasn't. This isn't just, like, a guy who happened to be at cnn. These were the biggest shows. These were their marquee names. It was Cuomo and Don Lemon, their shows, and then their back and forth in between the shows. This was the highest rated thing that CNN had during these days that he's claiming were, you know, the great ratings days for cnn. So it's just interesting to see, like, their level of analysis. And here is Don Lemon giving you what. Essentially, it's like the Joy Reid level of political analysis. It's all they have to offer. So here. Here's Don Lemon.

C (60:10)

It's the same thing When I see not all black Republicans, but I see a black MAGA person who is carrying Donald Trump's water, and they know that he's lying, it is the shortest line to the front. Because if you're black and you're whatever, any, you're just in line with a bunch of other Democrats that are doing the same thing that you're doing. But if you become a black MAGA person, it's like, whoa, let's book this person. Let's put them on television.

Robbie Bernstein (60:34)

So you don't think you can be.

C (60:35)

A sincere black MAGA person? No, I just said. I don't think that. I just said I think there can be sincere Republicans, but you can't be.

Dave Smith (60:45)

A sincere black Republican.

C (60:47)

I don't think that you can. I don't think that you can be a rational maga, be black and be a rational MAGA person. I think you can be black and be a Republican. I think they would find that very insulting. Well, I mean, the truth is often insulting. It's the same.

Dave Smith (61:02)

Yes, it is true that the truth is. Is often insulting. Also. Just idiotic statements can be insulting sometimes. Isn't it? Like. Like, it's just so pathetic. And this is the game that really, in the era of the Don Lemons, in the era of Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon and Joy Reid, kind of in the time that these people became like the anchors, this was the type of just. Just. I don't know how to put it, profoundly stupid poison that they would just pump into America. And it really just can't be stated how destructive this was to always just whittle everything down to a race issue. Constant insinuations of bigotry against anybody who disagreed with them. Just the. The Joe Biden, you ain't black comment, essentially, is what Don Lemon has there. Then he tries to attach it to a point, but he's Don Lemon, so he's just really stupid, and he doesn't really understand the point even he's making. Like, yes, there is some truth to the fact that you cut the line. If you were like, the. If there's less of you, you know, like, if you fall into some category where there's like, oh, that's more unique to see. It is true that you're more likely to get booked. This is also true. Has nothing to do with race. I mean, like, for example, like, like, Dave Rubin has a huge YouTube show. And one of the reasons why Dave Rubin as a huge YouTube show is because he was the Young Turks guy and then became a conservative he left the left, and so now that becomes like, a story. Also, Liz Cheney, what do you think Liz Cheney would have been? How many media appearances do you think she would have had if she hadn't been going after Donald Trump in the way she was? There's lots of different angles that. But for him to sit there and say, you cannot be a. Since, like, no black person could support Donald Trump, there is no issue. You could possibly. You couldn't just be, let's say, a black dude who was against illegal immigration or who was against fighting forever wars or who was against the inflation of the Biden administration. Why somehow, as a white guy, you can legitimately have those opinions, but a black guy couldn't. I just again, think it's like, it's a profoundly racist statement to make, which has always been the case. It's like, these guys, they're like, there's something out of like, like a movie that would just, like, caricature racism in the past, and they would just make some character that's just like a foaming at the mouth bigot. It's like, oh, that's you. That's you. You're just like a vicious racist. It's the only lens that you see the world through is that like, oh, black people are supposed to be over here on this plantation only thinking one way, and if you dare cross over there to the other side, then you're some type of fucking sellout. And who the fuck is Don Lemon to speak for black people? For the least black black man in America? Like, really? A multimillionaire gay dude who's banging a white dude living in a white neighborhood? Like, what? You get to decide. You're the arbiter to say, like, well, you can support Mitt Romney. I'll allow a black guy to support Mitt Romney, but you can't support Donald Trump. Why. Why do you get to choose that? Like, fuck off, Don Lemon? I don't know. I'll give you the final word, Rob, and then we got to wrap up.

Robbie Bernstein (64:49)

What am I going to say that's better than fuck off, Don Lemon? I think you nailed it on that one.

Dave Smith (64:54)

All right, well, listen. Thank you guys very much for listening. What's your. What's your new site again, Rob?

Robbie Bernstein (64:59)

Robbernstein, Comedy dot com. I'll get the links to those two dates in the episode description and check out the run your mouth podcast. Just did a really great interview with David Column. I think you guys would like it.

Dave Smith (65:08)

All right. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna go check that out. He's a very interesting guy. All right, guys, comicdavesmith.com for our our ticket links Boston coming up. Come on out. We'll see. We'll see you out there in Boston. Thank you, guys for listening. Catch you tomorrow. Peace. Sa.