Robbie Bernstein (2:32)

I love the grift of people trying to pretend like you lost that thing. I just think it's so hilarious. And it's such a tedious mission to have to show up back on the Internet every single day. It's like at the end of a fight when you clearly lost a fight and you still raise your hands hoping to fool the judges. And, you know, people are trying to pull that horseshit. And it's kind of fun to watch.

Dave Smith (2:51)

Well, I said there's a couple of these, like, like insane, like, pro Zionist accounts on Twitter. And I saw because, like, several of them, they kind of work in coordination or they just all happen to be saying the exact same thing right at the exact same time. But they.

Bill Maher (3:07)

Their.

Dave Smith (3:07)

So their. Their thing on our last episode was you go, all you need to know about who won the debate is that Dave has to go back and make an episode talking about the debate, and you're like, yeah, that's how you judge a debate winner. Not who had better arguments or who just, you know, contradict themselves or relied on logical fallacies. You go, who talked about it afterward? Ok, like, that's quite a standard you've set there. But it's also kind of like so much of the debate. Whereas, as I mentioned before, I was there to debate Israel in Ukraine, Douglas Murray turned it into a debate that was like the old media guard versus the podcasters, you know, but that's kind of the. It's like, well, yeah, of course I'm going to do a podcast on the. Of course I'm going to tweet about this. That's what I do. And this was just the biggest thing that happened. So why would I not. This doesn't make any sense. Anyway, I gave Piers Morgan my first interview since the debate, and I actually had Breaking Points scheduled, but I had to reschedule that. So I'll be on that tomorrow. But I'm very much looking forward to going on that. So I just did Pierce Morgan. That should be out later today. And then I'll do. I'll do Breaking Points tomorrow. And then I think I might do the Young Turks at some point this week, too, because they've asked me to. To come on. But anyway, so I go on on Piers Morgan today, and I did another debate, and this time I was debating.

Robbie Bernstein (4:38)

I'm sorry, seven yelling women.

Dave Smith (4:41)

No, not quite the opposite. John Spencer, who is the chair of Urban Warfare Studies at The War Institute. And so he took issue with a bunch of things I said, and me and him had a, A little Twitter back and forth. And so essentially what he took issue was, was that I used. So there was this one point in the debate where Douglas said that Israel is unintentionally killing civilians, but there are civilians dying, but that it's unintentional. Israel's just trying to get the bad guys and unintentionally, sometimes other people. And I essentially was like, no, that's bullshit. Israel is intentionally killing civilians. And I said, I don't care how you dress it up. Like. And I, I use the examples you probably heard me say before. But I was like, look, if someone breaks into your property and kills a bunch of your family members and then runs back to their property where, you know, it's. It's an apartment building with women and children, and you blow the thing up, you'd be charged with murder in the first degree. It would not be involuntary manslaughter. It wouldn't be unintentional murder. It wouldn't even be murder in the second degree. It would be first degree premeditated intentional murder. Now, this guy objected to that, and he was like, you have no idea about the laws that govern war or how intentionality is judged during war, blah, blah. And I'm like, no, no, no, you're missing my point. I'm just saying if you knowingly, if you know what you're going to do is going to result in innocent people dying, then you intentionally killed them. And that the, the, the definition, like, philosophy doesn't change because a politician uttered the words war and, and, and it's taking place on a different line to a, like, morality and simple philosophical concepts don't magically change because we decided to call it a different name. And then he just keeps the entire debate, Rob. He keeps going, no, but you don't understand how war works. And I was like, no, no. And then at one point, I literally go to him, I go, dude, man to man, explain to me how the concept of something being intentional can magically change because a politician declared a word and it happens on foreign soil. No appeals to the law.

Bill Maher (7:08)

No.

Dave Smith (7:08)

No appeals to what war usually looks like. Just as a person. Explain that to me. And he goes, well, international law says that it's not intentional as long as. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Something about proportionality. Anyway, I, I just, I, I'm excited for you guys to go watch this. I literally felt like I was debating an Aztec high priest about child Sacrifice. And I was going, this is just murdering children. And he's like, dude, you don't even understand the church. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I don't care about the church. I'm saying you're murdering children. That's what this policy is. And he's going, dude, you probably haven't even gone to preschool. You know what I mean? Like, it was just like the most bizarre thing ever. But anyway, I'm interested for you guys to go to go see it.

Robbie Bernstein (7:54)

Natalie, maybe you can fact check me live on this. And I get to do a better job of memorizing my exact sources as opposed to just scanning headlines and then letting it all jumble together. But speaking to Israel's war strategy, because sometimes people like, well, what's the alternative? And I've just said, well, you can't kill civilians. Apparently 75% of the Hamas tunnels remain, and I believe that the Hamas militants are back up to their 40,000 or 35,000 numbers. So if you were trying to conduct an operation to uproot Hamas and your big storyline is that they got this tunnel infrastructure, I mean, after all of the bombings and everything that you've done, this current route doesn't seem to be all that successful in terms of getting rid of them. If the metrics are by and large that 75% of the infrastructure remains and their soldier capacity, I'm guessing through new recruitment. And you know, the blowback theory, it seems to be basically in the exact same place.

Dave Smith (8:54)

Yep, yep. Like the justification is bullshit. And then the justification doesn't even hold because by your own metric, you're not even achieving your goal.

Robbie Bernstein (9:03)

According to Douglas Murray, I guess if Hamas just stopp booby trapping their own buildings, everyone could still have their homes.

Dave Smith (9:09)

Yep, yep, There you go. It's all, it's all just. We're trying to clear out these booby traps, which, by the way, we also sometimes use live Palestinians in order to do. Anyway, there was a, a great piece in Heretz today that just basically said. And it wasn't. It was like one of those, you know, like staff opinion pieces. So it's like from the newspaper, not from one individual. But they were just even. They just went like, dude, like ending the war and giving the Palestinians a state in exchange for all the hostages. This is the only play here. It's the only play that's left. It's like, just say like, okay, fine, we'll do the thing. We'll do the thing that you guys have wanted forever. If you just give us back our hostages. That would be. It's not going to happen, but it really would be amazing if it could. All right, let's. Let's move on, I guess, from the Douglas Murray debate. I'm sure this will be. This is going to be a thing that's referenced forever. And it's just, it's one of those things where every. I mean, he will literally never not get replies on his. He posts anything for the rest of his life. He will never not get a reply that's like, I'd love to comment on this, but I'm not a professional replier, so I can't.

Robbie Bernstein (10:33)

So it's just maybe we could all learn to talk like this down. So it sounds more interesting. You go. The more it sounds like you're saying something profound.

Dave Smith (10:47)

Well, did you. This is the last thing I'll say at it. But did you see? I did. I did post it because I couldn't help myself. But did you see that? There's. So evidently there was this whole interview where he was taking apart leftist experience, the lived experience argument. And it's just like, yo, dude, it's in detail. It's just him arguing against himself on me, like down to the point that he literally makes the point, which is perfect, by the way. I wish I was as British and eloquent as Douglas Murray was. I could have taken his, his thing apart way better. I mean, Jesus Christ, I'm no match for Douglas Murray, but Douglas Murray sure is. He could take her out. He could take him out right away. But he put it such a better way than me because I just say it in my sloppy. I'm from Brooklyn and I say like and every other word and I curse and I'm, you know, I'm just like, whatever, I'm a talking comedian. But he's like this, you know, eloquent, you know, wordsmith. But he goes. Because I just said to him, I go, you ever been in Nazi Germany? Yeah, but you still have some feelings about that, right? But the way he put it was. He goes, he goes, many people who were not victims of the Holocaust have written far more beautifully and truthfully than people who were victims of the Holocaust could ever have written. And you're like, oh, talk about making the same point I made, but saying it in an even better way. But anyway, it is pretty funny some of the, the videos of him just totally contradicting his stated views. And, you know, that is a, it's. It's a major theme of a lot of the, the, the conservative pro Israel crowd that it's like, oh, but everything you were just telling me about woke leftism you now embrace. And I, I will say I think it's something that people are noticing and paying a lot of attention to. Okay, so the other big thing that's happened that I'm not involved in was evidently that, that Bill Maher went and met with President Trump, which I guess happened a little while ago, but he just talked about it a couple days ago on. On his show. And so that's been. It seems like it was me and Douglas versus Bill meeting the president that were kind of dominating social media over the last few days. So I figured we've talked about one. Let's. Let's talk about the other a little bit, which, by the way, I know a lot of people were saying it was. We didn't talk about this on the episode. Right. I think this happened afterward. But that Trump tweeted out Douglas Murray's book the next day, which, you know, people say, whatever theories or whatever people have on that, I have no idea if the two were related at all. I have no inside knowledge. They're just saying Donald Trump endorsed his book. He also endorsed the COVID vaccine, so just keep that in mind. He's not. The guy's not 100% on his endorsements, but anyway. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is ProtonMail. ProtonMail is an email service designed to replace your Gmail account for all of your important stuff so that you can have a more secure email experience. Your Gmail is full of junk after so many years. ProtonMail is a great way to start all over again. You can continue using your Gmail for garbage, but use ProtonMail for important stuff. Proton will always have a freemium version and you can later change to a paid product if convinced about the product. But go create a free account today at ProtonMail. They do everything that Gmail does for you. It's just a more secure way to do it. Check them out. Click the link in the episode description to get started right now. All right, let's get back into the show. So Bill Maher, one of the fiercest liberal, insane critics of Donald Trump over the last eight years, goes to meet Donald Trump. And here he is talking about his experience. Let's play the video, and me and you will. Will give our thoughts.

Bill Maher (14:44)

Rob, now for what I. I know you've all been waiting for, I'd like to give you my book report on my visit to the White House. Okay? As you know, 12 days ago, I had dinner with President Trump, a dinner that was set up by my friend Kid Rock, because we share a belief that there's gotta be something better than hurling insults from 3,000 miles away. And let me first say that to all the people who treated this like it was some kind of summit meeting. You're ridiculous. Like I was gonna sign a treaty or something. I have. I have no power. I'm a fucking comedian. And he's the most powerful leader in the world. I'm not the leader of anything, except maybe a contingent of centrist minded people who think there's got to be a better way of running this country than hating each other every minute.

Dave Smith (15:44)

So thank you.

Bill Maher (15:47)

So, okay, so meet up in person. Maybe it'll be different. Spoiler alert. It was first good sign. Before I left for the Capitol, I had my staff collect and print out this list of almost 60 different insulting epithets that the President has said about me. Things like, stupid, dummy, low life dummy, sleazebag, sick, sad, stone cold crazy. Really a dumb guy, fired like a dog. His show is dead sexy. I brought this to the White House because I wanted him to sign it, which he did. Which he did with good humor. And I know, as I say, that millions of liberal sphincters just tightened.

Dave Smith (16:47)

Okay, can you pause it here, Natalie? This is. I did just find this to be very interesting. And to me, what this was revealing of. I'm curious to get your thoughts on it, Rob, but it was just revealing of how much liberals in general have just been out to lunch on the Trump question for from the very beginning. And that, listen, I could have, with 100% certainty predicted that this is exactly how their dinner would go. And yet Bill Maher even seems to be saying it with a bit of surprise, like. Like a shock to it. Like, hey, guys, turns out. Brace yourself, Rob. Trump is hilarious. Like, how have they not figured this most obvious fundamental part out? Literally, as. As Bill Maher is reading the list before he gives the reveal that Trump was a good sport and signed it, the audience is cracking up, laughing at Trump's insults. Somehow liberals, I don't know if you've noticed this. This happens a lot. I've seen this so many times over the last eight years. We're like, fat. Not Fallon, like Kimmel or Stephen Colbert will, like, be quoting the President, trying to mock him. And his audience is already laughing at what Trump is saying, but somehow they have to convince themselves that he's never trying to be funny in any of these moments. And, like, when you just read that list of insults, it's like, he's being funny. That's what he's doing. He thinks these are funny insults, and they are. That's why the crowd's laughing at them. So, of course, he was down to sign the letter. He thinks that's hilarious. Like, I just think there's something. There's something really remarkable about the fact that anybody at this point would still be shocked to find out that Trump's hilarious. Yes, he is the greatest comedian of our lifetimes. Like, what. How is that not registered yet for people I don't know Your thoughts?

Robbie Bernstein (18:50)

I only met Trump in person once, and I was so charmed, I let him grab me by the pussy. So I can. I can really speak to the man's charm in person.

Dave Smith (18:58)

But isn't it, like, just the most obvious thing? Like, yeah, he's going to be charming and funny and, like, have a sense of humor about these things. I just thought that was so obvious. It seems to be like the shock of all shocks to Bill Maher and his audience. Anyway, thought that was strange. All right, let's keep playing.

Bill Maher (19:14)

Something nice about him. What I'm going to do is report exactly what happened. You decide what you think about it, and if that's not enough pure Trump hate for you, I don't give a fuck. So. So, no, I didn't go maga. And to the President's credit, there was no pressure to. After we left the Oval Office, he showed me the little room off the. The office. You know, the one where Clinton used to. Okay, the blow job room. Okay, well, not anymore. That. That's where they keep the merch now.

Dave Smith (20:02)

It is. And.

Bill Maher (20:06)

And he gave me a bunch of hats, but he didn't ask me to take a picture in one, which I appreciate. The guy I met is not the person who, the night before the dinner. Shit. Tweeted a bunch of nasty crap about how he thought this dinner was a bad idea and what a deranged asshole I was. I read it and thought, oh, what a lovely way to welcome someone to your house. But when I got there, that guy wasn't living there. Now, does Trump want respect? Of course. Who doesn't? My friend said to me, what are you going to wear to the White House? I said, I don't know, but I'm not going to dress like Zelensky, I'll tell you that. Just for starters, he laughs. I'd never seen him laugh in public, but he does, including in himself. And it's not fake. Believe me, as a comedian of 40 years, I know a fake laugh when I hear it, and I thank you for that.

Robbie Bernstein (21:18)

Okay.

Bill Maher (21:19)

Example, in the Oval Office, he was showing me the portraits of presidents, and he pointed to Reagan and said, in all seriousness, you know the best thing about him? His hair. I said, well, there was also that whole bringing down communism thing. Waiting for the button next to the Diet Coke button to get pushed and I go through the trap door. But no, he laughed. He got it. I said to him at one point, Mr. President, you know the dog? That's unusual in the White House? He said, well, a lot of the presidents, they had a dog for political reasons. I said, no, people love dogs. That's what that is. Oh, yeah, okay, that's true.

Dave Smith (22:09)

Just pause it here for a second. He goes. Even as he ends it, he goes, I'm telling you, it happened. And you're just like. All of this, you're like, this is exactly what I'd expect. Like, I just don't understand. Why was it. Why is this shocking to anybody? It was like, oh, he had a good sense of humor. He was charming. He rolled with the punches. You know, he said, the best thing about Reagan is his hair. I said, it's also that bringing down communism. He goes, all right, good point. Like, this is. This is exactly what I would expect an interaction. I've never met Donald Trump. It's exactly what I would expect an interaction with Donald Trump to be like. And it's just interesting to me that Bill Maher already has to, like, start it with. I swear to God, you're never going to believe this. I swear to God, it's just like, there is kind of backs up this. This. This view that I've had for quite a while, which is that Donald Trump has an amazing ability to get people to project things onto him, to get them to see something in him that isn't there. And very few people are able to just look at him and see what's right in front of you. Because if you do that, I just think none of this would be surprising. You're like, oh, this is exactly how I bet he is. This is what I always assumed and what I've heard from everybody who's ever met the guy. I don't know any. Any thoughts on this, Rob.

Robbie Bernstein (23:27)

I think Bill Maher was hoping to come back and say he's as much of a lunatic as I've always said, and this guy knows nothing, and I can't believe he's there. And to Bill Maher's credit, He came back and said, the lunatic is just the television version. We actually got a sophisticated man in the White House. I just wish that was the public version, which is funny because that's kind of always been their complaint. But that's also just not his sell. You know what I mean? It's like, it's. I don't know, it's like any entertainer, some people like their shtick and some people hate it, but in Donald Trump's case, 51 or percent of voters, whatever you need to, actually liked it. And so the exact thing that you're complaining about, which is his television personality, is what other people like. It's kind of like all of entertainment.

Dave Smith (24:12)

Yeah. And there's something weird about, particularly for someone like Bill Maher, who is so unlikable. Well, yeah, there's that. Who's, like, very smarmy and pretentious. Although, as I've learned recently, there's. It can get worse. But he, like, he'll be the first to acknowledge that, like, the country's in a bad place. And there's all, you know, like, almost everybody, and including Bill Maher would acknowledge that, like, wokeism is like a mental condition and that for years, literally, this. This insanity took over all of the halls of power in our country. Pretty hard to deny when you see that we're going. There would be $36 trillion in debt and just like, how. How volatile the. The domestic culture is, how polarized everybody is. And so it's like, you know, it just. Donald Trump was never exactly my style either. You know, I was. Ron Paul was my hero. I liked a learned doctor. That was the guy I looked up to, not Donald Trump. But, like, you could have a little bit of humility and go like, well, maybe the old way wasn't working. Maybe we needed something else. Like, like, maybe you needed to call him Rocket Man a bunch of times to get Kim Jong Un to the table. I don't know. Seems like a risky game to me, but maybe that's what needed to be played. And so, yes, it is interesting that, like, okay, it's interesting that Bill Maher's beef is like, oh. Or his. His takeaway is like, oh, privately, he's a totally, like, reasonable, funny guy. He's not the guy I thought he was at all. I agree with you. I give Bill Maher credit for reporting the truth and coming back and saying that. I mean, he could have lied and spun this in a way that probably his audience would have preferred. But I just. I would just say that it's Like, I feel like when you've been covering a guy for going on nine years now, obsessively, like this is the thing you've been. And then you meet him and he's totally different than what you had imagined. You would think the next step would be like, oh, wow, I really got it all wrong. You know, like, that there would be at least some of that. I guess we'll see over the coming weeks and months whether that's the case or not. Anyway, let's. Let's keep playing.

Bill Maher (26:45)

At one point we were walking through his amazing. It is an amazing tour of the whole house. And I don't remember exactly what we were talking about, but it must have been something with the 2020 election because I know he used the word lost and I distinctly remember saying, wow, I never thought I'd hear you say that. He didn't get mad. He's much more self aware than he lets on in public. Look, I get it. It doesn't matter who he is at a private dinner with a comedian. It matters who he is on the world stage. I'm just taking as a positive that this person exists because everything I've ever not liked about him was, I swear to God, absent. At least on this night with this guy. Bob. Kid Rock told me the night before, he said, if you want to get a word in edgewise, you're going to have to cut him off. He'll just go on. Not at all. I've had so many conversations with prominent people who are much less connected. People who don't look you in the eye, people who don't really listen because they just want to get to their next thing. People whose response to things you say just doesn't track. Like what? None of that was him. And he mostly steered the conversation to. What do you think about this? I know your mind is blown. So is mine.

Dave Smith (28:07)

Just pause it one more time. It's. Mine's not. How is your mind blown over this? It is amazing. And I'll tell you, there's a thing that people in general do, but I do think that liberals tend to be more susceptible to this. Like, of all the groups of, of people. If you could slice and dice people into like left wingers and liberals and, you know, conservatives or right wingers or libertarians or whatever, liberals particularly are like the worst at this, where they, they put people who don't agree with them into the box of stupid. Like you're stupid if you don't agree with liberals. That's kind of their starting point. And you will find this. Liberals are. Are the only ones who are very likely to say things like, you know, I met a Christian who actually knows all about science and think that that's, like, surprising to them because aren't these Christians supposed to, like, know nothing? By the way, I'm. I'm not just, like, pulling this out of my ass. Like, I feel like this. There's actual, like, social science on this. Jonathan Height did a whole, like, thing on this where, like, liberals are. They're the most. It's been years since I read this, but it was something like they're the most judgmental of other people's positions, and they're also the worst at steel manning. Other people's positions. So, like, if you ask a conservative to tell you what a liberal believes, they can, in general, they can, with pretty good accuracy, tell you what a liberal believes. But if you ask a liberal what a conservative believes, they just get it all wrong. You know what I mean? Like, they just can't.

Robbie Bernstein (29:55)

They're also the most likely to be victims of the Dunning Kruger effect. So I think that all falls into the same bracket.

Dave Smith (30:03)

Yes.

Robbie Bernstein (30:04)

Yes.

Dave Smith (30:04)

No, they're very related. Yeah. Yes. The idea of. Because it's a lack of humility, that all of it is a lack of understanding where exactly you rank in the hierarchy of intelligence and therefore where everybody else must be. You know, like, it's. It's very. Michael Malice talks a lot about this, but there is something about. There's, like, the people who have, like, what he calls the midwits, the people who have, like, a 115IQ, and so they're smart enough to get a diploma. They're smart enough to read a book and then regurgitate the information that they read out of that book. And then they feel like they're really, really smart people. And it's like, slow down. There's levels to this shit. I think it's one of the things that's been healthiest for me is that I've just always, you know, in this world, surrounded myself by and read people who are way, way smarter than me. And it's good to remind yourself of that. You're like, okay, I'm here. I'm not here. And there's nothing wrong with being here. Like, here's a fine place to be. But you also know that there's levels to this and part of that humility. Right? Like, it was a. I know it was. It was Socrates, I believe, who said, the first rule of philosophy is know thyself, and I don't know, was it Socrates or somebody else. But there's one quote where it's like the, the first step in, in knowledge is learning how little you know. Like there, you know what I mean? Like there's something about that of like knowing where and when you have that. When you have just a little bit of it. I'm not saying any of us get a perfect score on this. We're all guilty of some degree of lack of accurate self appraisal. But when you have a little bit of that humility in you, it allows you to very, very quickly like let's say, I mean we've all known it was Socrates. Thank you, Natalie. We've all say going back to the beginning of Donald Trump as like a political entity. So like around 2015, because we've known Donald Trump from before then, but as we all started at the very beginning to assess him as like someone who's actually running for president. Oh, someone who's polling in first place. Oh, someone who might the nomination. Somebody who actually might win the presidency. And, and oh, the guy who's going to be the president. All these steps, almost all of us, if you just have a little bit of this humility figured out very quickly that you're like, okay, Donald Trump sounds like a buffoon sometimes when he speaks, obviously there's a little bit more than that going on there because it's just not the case. I mean, look, like, just objectively it has nothing to do with how you feel about Donald Trump. You can think Donald Trump is a war criminal who belongs in the Hague. Like you can hate Donald Trump but you would still recognize that you're like, okay, somebody started from the ground up a multi billion dollar company. Okay, just that right there. Okay. No, no idiot does that, period. That's just the like, no idiot starts and his dad gave him a million dollars. Okay, here's a You go turn a million dollars into $10 billion. It's so easy to do, you know what I mean? Like, and so, and, but after this achieving that was just the company. Forget all the other stuff he's achieved. But the thought that you would be shocked that there was a little bit more going on between his ears than what you have thought of this bozo, this buffoon like you. You're shocked that oh, he's charismatic. How would he have gotten to this level if he wasn't able to win people over? Oh, he's interested in other people's ideas.

Bill Maher (33:55)

Yeah.

Dave Smith (33:56)

How would he have gotten to this level if he was incapable of like you know what I'm saying, Rob? So it's just, it, it almost demonstrates something much more about Bill Maher and his liberal audience that this would be. It's like, oh, you guys haven't. You're this clueless about the other side, which you, you, you know, it animates you so much how you feel about the other side, and yet you've got them all wrong. It's not even close to the, you know, the, the, the vision that you had of them. And so there is just something interesting watching Bill Maher grapple with that, like, you know, and, and also the audience and to kind of think, like, it just makes you wonder, like, does this poke any holes in that, in their mind that they'd be like, oh, maybe we totally misunderstood who this guy is? My guess is it won't. But it's kind of interesting to me. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Tax Network usa. The IRS is the largest collection agency in the world, and it just stepped up enforcement for 2025. If you owe back taxes or have unfiled returns, do not wait for the IRS to come after you. Simply avoiding your tax troubles is the worst thing you can do. Getting ahead of this is the smart move, but never the IRS alone. Turn it over to the team at Tax Network usa. Why? Because not all tax resolution companies are the same. Tax Network USA has a preferred direct line to the irs. This means that they know which agents to deal with and which ones to avoid. Tax Network USA has proven strategies that are designed to settle your tax problems in your favor whether you owe $10,000 or $10 million. Their attorneys have negotiated and resolved over $1 billion in tax debt. Talk with one of their strategists. It's free. Stop looking over your shoulder and put the IRS troubles behind you once and for all. Give them a call at 1-800-958-1000 or visit them at tnusa.comSmith that's T N USA.com Smith all right, let's get back into the show.

Robbie Bernstein (36:07)

And with the way that Bill Maher tends to be snarky and prod and I would have think would have came in trying to provoke more of a reaction. I think also just speaks to the Trump's smoothness.

Dave Smith (36:21)

Yeah, yeah. That he could take somebody who has been an enemy and is kind of incentivized to be an enemy and charm the pants off him and have him being like, oh, I actually really loved that guy. But Again, I just would have. And look, to be completely fair, I know people who have met with Trump and they all say the same thing, exactly what Bill Maher is saying here, that he's just like the smoothest, most charming, really funny, really interested guy. But even without that, just judging off of what he's achieved, I'd be like, oh, he's got to be charming. There's no way that he wouldn't be as.

Robbie Bernstein (36:58)

So anyway, there's almost like just the cognitive dissonance of. We've done so much reporting about how reprehensible and buffoonish he is, so certainly he must be that. I guess in this case, ironically, after all of our talk of lived experience, actually meeting with him in person, it becomes undeniable of, oh, there's some skill here. With all that said, I do think that there's a lot of stupidity and buffoonery to Donald Trump, but there certainly is a marketing genius there and a PT Barnum and a guy who knows how to, at a minimum, crate television and sell himself. And it's just so funny to the liberals because part of the appeal is that he pisses you guys off so much, which is what you were saying at the beginning, that's part of the appeal to conservatives is that he gets this reaction from, from liberals that we all really hate. And then sometimes even that's, sometimes that's the entire appeal of the guy is just, look at how much this bothers the liberals, dude.

Dave Smith (37:55)

There was, I forget whose line this was. I feel bad because I should be crediting the person, but this is not mine. But it's so goddamn perfect. But if you, if you remember, in 2016, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton had the, the highest negatives of any two candidates who have ever run for president. They were the most hated candidates ever running for president, both against each other. And Trump was, had slightly higher negatives than Hillary Clinton. And I forget who said it, but it was. Somebody goes, he goes, america hated Hillary Clinton so much that we'd support someone we hate even more. I thought that was like just the perfect way of saying it, but it really was that it's just that he was seen and, and rightfully so, to some degree as being outside of that cabal. And so we'd take this guy and, and throw him at you. And you're right, that's, it's, it's not a part of his appeal. It's the biggest part of his appeal. He's a middle finger.

Robbie Bernstein (38:55)

It's the great Howard Stern line from if You've, I'm sure you've seen the movie. What was the movie? He. I, I don't remember the movie, but.

Dave Smith (39:02)

There'S, I want to say private parts, but Private. Was that it?

Robbie Bernstein (39:06)

That's with pig vomit. When they're reviewing the ratings, they're finding out that fans of the show watch for 20 minutes. The non fans are watching for 60 or 40 minutes. And the reason being they all want to know what he's going to say next.

Dave Smith (39:18)

Yeah, that's the same, the same thing. And that's, look, there's a. There's so much of that with Donald Trump, right? It's why he's always just going to be the number one rated thing. It doesn't matter what, because everyone's got to watch him. All right, let's keep playing.

Bill Maher (39:34)

There were so many moments when I hit him with a joke or contradicted something and no problem. At dinner, he was asking me about the nuclear situation in Iran in a very genuine, hey, I think you're a smart guy, I want your opinion sort of way. And I said, well, obviously you're privy to things about it. I'm not. But for what it's worth, I thought the Obama deal was worth letting play out because we made Iran destroy 98% of the uranium and they were 15 years away from a bomb. And then I said to him, but we got rid of that. You got rid of that. He didn't get mad or call me a left wing lunatic. He took it in. I told him I thought parts of his plan for Gaza were wacky, but that I had supported him in the idea that Gaza could be Dubai instead of hell. I told him he was wrong when he tweeted the night before that I was critical of all things Trump. Not true. Check the tapes. Moving Israel's embassy to Jerusalem loved it. The border did need to be controlled. I'm glad the cops are getting their morale back. DEI had gone too far. Biological men shouldn't be playing women's sports. Europe should pay for their defense. And of course, it makes sense that Arab countries should take in Arab refugees like the million Syrians who wound up in Germany. When Saudi Arabia took none, he said to me, you're right, they took none. I said, well, you should remind your boyfriend in Saudi Arabia that the next time you see him. He laughed. I never felt I had to walk on eggshells around him. And honestly, I voted for Clinton and Obama, but I would never feel comfortable talking to them the way I was able to talk with Donald Trump. That's just how it went down. Make of it what you will. Me, I feel it's emblematic of why the Democrats are so unpopular these days. He was even okay when I checked him on the orangutan lawsuit. He was. You know, he said to Dana White, you know, Bill said, my father was an orangutan, and I. I really love my father. And I said, well, Mr. President, I did that because I didn't like what you were doing regarding Obama's birth origins. I thought that was low. Again, no anger, just a little smile as if to say, yeah, I get it. The most surreal part of the whole night was when I got home. I flew back right after the dinner, and I'm in bed watching 60 Minutes from the night before. And there's Trump in one of their stories, standing at a podium in a room that looked to me like one of the rooms and places we'd just been in. And he's ranting, disgusting. You're a terrible person. And I'm like, who's that guy? What happened to Glinda the Good Witch? And why can't we get the guy I met to be the public guy? And I'm not saying it's our responsibility to do that. It's not. I'm just reporting exactly what I saw over two and a half hours. I went into the mine, and that's what's down there. A crazy person doesn't live in the White House. A person who plays a crazy person on TV a lot lives there, which I know is fucked up. It's just not as fucked up as I thought it was. And I have no illusions, now that I'm back to work at my job, that he might start a new list, because I don't have a good feeling and will be critical about a lot of what he's doing. The trade war and disappearing, people ruling by decree, threatening judges, gutting the government with glee. But I also think he now understands I have a job to do. Or at least he did on this night, because he said to me early on that he'd seen our last episode, which was the Friday before this dinner, and he said, I thought maybe you'd be nice, but you hit me really hard. I did. Because I'm not gonna pull my punches that presidents get to propose a third term for themselves. He understood that. And without animus, that doesn't mean he's not gonna try to do it. At one point, I said to him, you're scaring people. Do you really want to be scaring your own Citizens so much. And I know now you're all saying, and what did he say to that? Honestly, I don't remember. But it wasn't. Okay, I'll stop. So, MAGA fans, don't worry. Your boy gave me nothing. Just hats. Hats and a very generous amount of time and a willingness to listen and accept me as a possible friend, even though I'm not maga, which was the point of the dinner. My favorite part of the whole night was we were standing in the Blowjob room. We were. And he said, you know, I've heard from a lot of people who really like that we're having this dinner. Not all, but a lot. And I said same. A lot of people told me they loved it, but not all. And we agreed. The people who don't even want us to talk, we don't like. You don't talk. As opposed to what? Writing the same editorial for the millionth time and making 25 hour speeches into the window? Really? That's what liberals have. He takes the piss out of everybody else and we can hold ours. Okay, that's my report. You can hate me for it, but I'm not a liar. Trump was gracious and measured. And why he isn't that in other settings, I don't know. And I can't answer. And it's not my place to answer. I'm just telling you what I saw and I wasn't high.

Dave Smith (45:50)

All right, all right, we could turn this off. So there, there you have it. I'm kind of curious, like, your overall thoughts on this, Rob. I'm a little bit of two minds. Like, there's part of me that's kind of like, like I kind of appreciate the spirit of what Bill Maher is saying there at the end. Like, it's like, yeah, we all got to be able to talk to each other. I agree with that. I think that the, the over, like, kind of at least with regular people forget like the political class and all that. But I think, like, the demonizing of regular people is a big problem in this country. And like, we're all existing together. Even if the country broke up into a bunch of smaller countries, we're still all going to be neighbors, you know, like, it's not good if France and Germany hate each other's guts. It's much better when they're like, at least reasonably getting along and definitely within a society, you don't want to have that attitude, like you can't talk to each other. It's much better to be able to have conversations and work through problems. But there's also just something on the other hand where I find this to be a little, it's a little bit convenient for liberals who've gone to absolute war with Donald Trump to, after they've lost, be like, okay, now let's, let's be reasonable. You know what I mean? Like, go ahead.

Robbie Bernstein (47:14)

I think that's exactly what it is. I think, I mean, Donald Trump, in part lost the last election possibly because of election fraud. And if it wasn't that, it was certainly tech censorship. And if it wasn't that, it was certainly the environment of COVID and that everyone was very unhappy with the government at that time. But there was another, I would almost put this as a 50% element, which was there was a temper tantrum reaction to Donald Trump, and people kind of felt like, just make it stop. And they, they wrongfully decided to reward the kids having the temper tantrum, which was the liberal media and blaming that on Donald Trump when it really was the reaction. And all the way up until when Donald Trump re won this election, there was an effort to censor Donald Trump, just get rid of him and to have that reaction. And if the political capital that he won this time around and winning once again was in throwing out and rejecting the temper tantrum and also forcing liberals to contend with the fact that they had some really bad policies, which included the ESG nonsense and all the WOKE nonsense and everything else that everyday people actually hate. So even here, where he kind of gets the story wrong, where he goes, why is Donald Trump in front of the media calling them disgusting, there's also some ownership of the way that the media has treated Donald Trump with the unfair coverage, which the worst of it was the tech censorship. But then there's also just the, the, you know, I mean, the disparity in coverage of the media, of the way that they covered Donald Trump versus the kid gloves that they've had for Kamala Harris, that's why Donald Trump has to get up there and it works well with his base and his winning coalition when he just won't take any of their shit. Because that's what people want to see is that there's this grift of a liberal media that is just going to criticize him no matter what. And he's the one guy that's up there just go, you're disgusting. I'm leaving this interview like what he did with 60 Minutes. And so, yes, I do believe that there is a turn here and that that censorship no longer works. It's the Douglas Murray thing, I think people see through it at this point. They're uninterested in just hearing, hey, you're not allowed to have an opinion. This is the way that you're supposed to see and think about things. And as Donald Trump got reelected, it became clear that that's no longer objective truth and you can't preach it. And so especially even for a guy like Bill Maher, who almost, you know, shares his hatred of the extreme liberals, is almost the same as ours, and he's almost trying to figure out, well, how do I rebrand and restructure and convince these people that this is lunacy so that we can win once again? So, yeah, they're kind of, they're kind of forced to try and make night. It's the same thing as when Donna Bridge Brzezinsk, whatever her name is. And, yeah, and they went to meet with him because they finally realized, oh, this censorship and yelling, things not working.

Dave Smith (50:00)

Yeah, I think, I think that's right. All really good points. And as you say that, I'm like, kind of thinking like, you know, I, I know this from my own experience, and obviously this is, you know, drastically different than being the President of the United States, but I know from my own experience, like, and I don't think it's being duplicitous or being phony. It's like, it's just in different environments, you're gonna act in a different way. So, you know, if I, if, if some guy came up to me, you know, like, at an event or something, and just like. But we're just privately, you know, came up to me, I was, you know, it was, like, critical of me. It was like, you got this wrong, and you got this wrong, and you got this wrong. I might be, you know, quick to just be like, all right, well, you know, I appreciate you for airing those concerns. Okay, you know, see you later. Whereas, like, if it was on a show with the cameras on, it's like, well, there's a different thing you're doing now. Now you're trying to, like, you're trying to come at me in front of an audience of people, and I might be much more combative in that environment because it's like, well, no, you're trying to, like, discredit me to an audience now. And so there's just like, it's like, yeah, it's, it's going to be a different environment when you're coming inside. And then if you're saying, why is Donald Trump calling people disgusting? It's like, yeah, like you said. Well, maybe because he's been called disgust target. Donald Trump is. And I will say this, I try to be this way, too. But if you, if you ever see me on Twitter or in debates or anything like that, I'm not saying I'm never vicious, but I'm always a counter puncher. Like, I never just start a debate vicious with the other person. Like, I'll. I'll go in and just be like, hey, let's talk about the ideas. If you're vicious to me, then I'm going to be vicious back to you. Donald Trump is the master of that. Donald Trump, actually, I don't know if you remember, but I used to when we were breaking down his debates with Hillary Clinton, it was really interesting to watch because he would start, he was actually like, his breathing was crazy. You could tell he was intentionally, like, slowing down his breathing because he was trying to be nice. And he was like, I respect the First Lady. I respect the Secretary of State. I think we got to do things in a different way. And then, like, at a certain point, she'd be like, that's just a good thing. Someone with the temperament of Donald Trump isn't president. And he's like. Because you'd be in jail, you know, like, as soon as you hit him, as soon as you hit him, he's going to hit you, like, 10 times harder. But he will wait for you to do it, you know, so that was kind of one of the dynamics. The other thing, like, you know, as we were touching on, it just does feel to me that it's like, I don't know, man. Like, Bill Maher was. We played the segment on the show. I don't know if you remember this, but Bill Maher was talking during the campaign about how he was getting worried that none of these charges were going to stick to Donald Trump. And he was like, they should have just gone for the conviction when they had it. We were in a blue district, you know what I mean? Like, we could. And you're like, wow, you're not even making an argument that he's really guilty of a crime. You're just making an argument that we gotta stop him by any means necessary. And it's like now, all of a sudden, now, because he kicked your ass, you're like, hey, hey, hey. Let's all take it down a tone. There's something about that that rubs me the wrong way. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Prolon By El N Forget everything you think you know about fasting. 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And okay, I'm not saying, you know all this stuff about Donald Trump like not like not conceding the election. That's an, that's an excellent example of one. Right? Like it's not. What do you mean he didn't. And then they build it up to be a thing in their head. But you're like what, what do you actually mean? And then they'll, they'll tell it back to you. Like they'll go, he didn't peacefully transfer power. And you're like yes, he did. No, he just, he just bitched and complained on his way out. But yes, he did. He got on a plane and went back to Mar A Lago. And Joe Biden was sworn in that day as the President of the United States of America. He did peacefully transfer power. He, he didn't say the thing. Really. They are just, they have an objection about the procedure, about the decorum, because that's what you got to do when you're just trying to kind of like implicitly or explicitly defend the regime is just be like, well, what really matters is the decorum. And I just find it interesting how in all of these things where, where Bill Maher could go, hey, I agree with you on all of this. Like, yeah, come on, dude, we're going to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians out of Gaza. I'm with you on that. Or whatever other terrible thing agrees with him on. But their big thing is that he's going to run for a third term, which I, first of all, I, I just, I don't see any conceivable way that this is true. I know that he likes to stoke that flame and Bannon is really trying to stoke that flame. I don't think that's going to happen. By the way, America, Donald Trump's not going to run for a third term. But isn't there something interesting that that's their huge issue?

Robbie Bernstein (57:09)

It's like, it's just a microaggression.

Dave Smith (57:12)

Yes. Because first of all, it's, first of all, it's a non issue. It's not going to happen. It's not a real thing. It's something that he's saying to trigger you and you're falling right into it. But then additionally, you're kind of like, if you zoom out and I guess maybe this is our perspective because like, we actually just focus on that matters. We focus on stuff that the government does that's really awful, that ruins the lives of people. And like you're like, so first off, we've had presidents who have done more than two terms. It was not written into law until the middle of the 20th century that there were two terms where the amount of. But like, so what are you telling me here? If Donald Trump were able to change the law, and I don't, I think you'd need an amendment to the Constitution. But I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. But if, let's just say he was a, let's say we made, made it three terms instead of two. Is that like the end of the world is that like some like, like again, Rob. I'm just saying, even in this context, he'd still have to win the election. You know what I mean? Like he'd still. It's not as if, like he wouldn't have to like go back and, and win the electoral college again. But even if that were the case, it's inconceivable he could do more than three just by his age. I don't, I think it's inconceivable that he'll have a third term period. But like it's inconceivable you could do more. So you're really just like. I guess essentially all I'm saying is that it's nothing. It's a nothing issue that's not going to happen. And then even if it were to happen, it's still just not that big of an issue. If we went from two terms to three terms, is that the difference between liberal democracy and Hitlerian fascism or something like that? It's just all very strange how liberals can get themselves so worked up over non issues while completely misunderstanding all of their opponents. I'll let you have the. The last word.

Robbie Bernstein (59:10)

On the topic of a third term, I agree with you that it's noise and nonsense and that we're so far away from the amount of things that would have to fall into place for him to be able to do it, which just even includes that he's actually having a great presidency and could be elected in again. The other variable is that if he were to run for a third term, I think there's only one person on the entire side of the Democrats that could win another election, and that's Obama. And I'm not saying for sure that Obama would win the next election, but if I had to pick the roster of potential Democrats that could win an election, Obama would be on the absolute top in that list. So. And if we're not in a great economy and we just change the rules right now for you're allowed to have a third election, I. That's a, that's a tough bet, picking Obama versus, I mean Trump over Obama, particularly if things aren't going well. Which is why, just to take a step back, it's nonsense talk because things would have to be going so epically well for him to win a third election. Yes, yes, yes. The, the only thing that I was. Because originally when this came up, my thought was basically as you had said, which was if someone is the most popular and they still have to win an election, what's the importance of the term limits. If someone's actually the best or the most popular, who cares? The only reason I think that maybe we are better off with the term limits rule and maybe this isn't really arguing with what you were saying is that I think the longer that people can stay in power, the more potential there is for criminality. And that if people are doing things such as rigging elections or sending money directly to themselves or otherwise, there's a better. At least you know, if they can only be around for, and this might even be an argument for only having one term and that you can then can't even do a second term, which perhaps, you know, you know, there isn't a perfect middle, middle ground. But it does seem to me that the longer you can stay in power, the more opportunities there are for like just complete criminality. Because if you can, if there's more potential to stick around without getting thrown out, there's less potential for the system to kind of correct itself. And, and I don't think we're uncovering, no, I think the Biden crimes right now. But I'm just saying if Biden could have potentially have done three terms, maybe he would have been more aggressive.

Dave Smith (61:24)

No, I think, listen, there's a lot of these. There's a strong argument for like one six year term just so you don't have to win reelection, just to say that a president doesn't have to govern in a matter to win another election. He could just do the right thing. There's a lot there. But anyway, I do got to wrap on that. Thank you very much for everybody listening. Thank you for the overwhelming amount of support that I've gotten over the last few days. It has really been something and I, I very much appreciate it. All right, we'll catch you guys tomorrow with the brand new episode. Peace.