Loading summary
Transcript65 lines
- [00:00]
Cenk Uygur
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Dave Smith
What's up everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I'm very excited for today's episode. Very quickly, before we get started, one of your final reminders. Friday, this Friday, me and Robbie the Fire Bernstein will be up in Toronto doing stand up shows at Park Hall. I forget the name of the the theater, but comicdavesmith.com I've been told the shows will be sold out by either tonight or midday to tomorrow. So jump on them now if you want to come. Haven't been in Toronto in many years and I'm looking forward to returning. Presuming I'm allowed. Presuming that Canada is not operating under the same state of mind as the UK Anyway, for our, our guest for today's show, of course, as some of you can see, I'm sure he needs no introduction with any of you guys. The longtime host and founder of the Young Turks, Jank Uygur. How are you, brother? Good to see you.
- [01:00]
Cenk Uygur
Great to see you, Dave. And good news. I was just up in Vancouver last month and they did not ban me. So the Canadians still believe in freedom.
- [01:08]
Dave Smith
Okay. Or at least some degree of it there. At least the freedom to criticize Israel and still pop in and do an event there. You know, I should, I almost feel like I need to mention before we get started that because I saw you've just yesterday I, I watched your appearance on Piers Morgan and on Breaking Points and ju, it seems already when I have you on Today, like we did this in response to you being kicked out or not allowed to enter the uk but actually me and you had been texting a few days earlier and we were planning on doing a podcast anyway. But since this is the big news, let's start off with that. So just quickly take us through. Like how exactly did this go down? You're going over to the UK as far as you're concerned, you're going to go give a speech and then do an episode of the Pierce Morgan a debate on the Pierce Morgan Show. And how do you find out this none of this will be happening.
- [02:00]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah, so I go to the airport, I got a big luggage because I was going to go to London first, South by Southwest and then a bunch of interviews, peers, lbc, BBC, et cetera. And then we were going to go to Oxford. I was going to give a speech Friday night on Oxford Speaks. And then Saturday night Hasan and I were going to do speech and event together at Oxford Union. And so, and you know, I really look forward to that. My sister who is Hassan's mom was especially looking forward to a nice moment for her where her son and her brother speak at Oxford together. We actually had to check to see if my sister and my wife were also banned because you never know, right? But, but obviously there's not much point in going when we're banned. But so I get to the airport and, and they said, well, we're having trouble with it, so come over to the terminal with us and let's take a look at a closer look at it. And I was like, what are they having trouble over? Because I already had a visa from having gone there last year. Right. And those ETAs, as they're called, last two years and I had already double checked and I had the ETA number with me and I figured it's just a bureaucratic issue. And then the lady goes, I've never seen this, but you're rejected by the British government, you're not allowed to enter the country, so we can't let you board the flight. And I was like, what? And I was genuinely shocked. I didn't expect that at all. And I had heard before that they were, you know, might do something about Hasan because some labor party MP was complaining about him, but it didn't even occur to me that they would do anything about me. I mean, Hasan has at least said a couple of lines that are considered outrageous. Right. They got nothing on me, Right. Because I, I, I don't say that stuff. I suggest, do I do super strong criticism of Israel? Yes, but it's all above the board and, etc and so I didn't even quite know, but I knew, right. I mean, it's not complicated. Who's the, what's the only thing that has that kind of power and is against me? Right. It's not like, like, like I have a lot of enemies and, and all the lobbyists hate me, but it's not like third way could get me banned from the United Kingdom. Right. So something tank in D.C. that's poor pro corporate. Anyways, then I, 15 minutes later I get the Times article explaining, yeah. That I've been banned for criticizing Israel. In essence.
- [04:27]
Dave Smith
Yeah. And so again, one of the things that's so strange about this is that, so presumably the Times is getting this information from somebody in the UK government. If they have, they're saying we is telling us this and there's just something so strange about the fact that, okay, so the, the UK government will tell the New York Times what's going on here, but won't put out a public statement like Won't make the rules clear. So we maybe have an idea. I mean, honestly. And, you know, you texted me right afterward and you were like, brother, I wouldn't make any plans in the uk And I was. I mean, I don't have final plans, but I was planning on next year trying to do a theater show over there and maybe do a live Pierce episode or something. So now it's like, it is in this weird limbo. Like, well, are we not allowed to go, or is it just because. Again, it's not. I just want to be clear about this. It's not, because I just. Just to be very clear, I don't care. Like, you're not a Jew hater, you're a critic of Israel, but you're one of the guys who, you know, bends over backward to be very clear that that's not what you're saying. But to be clear, even if you were, you still have a right to be. And I think, like, it's almost like. So I don't want to get into that game of being like, hey, hey, we're not those guys. Because, like, even those guys have a right. You have a right to have whatever feelings you have about any group of people, because that's what it is to be a free human being. Like, we're either free men or we're slaves. And if we're free men, we have a right to have whatever feelings we have about anyone. You don't have a right to act violently on. On feelings or victimize people. But anyway, it does kind of make you, like, wonder, is the standard that you're a critic of Israel? Because. And I know you made this point the other day, but you're like, you know, that is a larger and larger percentage of the global population, people who are critics of Israel. So what are you, like, where are you really going to draw this line? Do you have to have a big YouTube following also? You know what I mean? Like our regular people? Because you might shut down 80% of England's tourism if you were to enforce the rule that any critic of Israel isn't allowed to step foot on your soil.
- [06:43]
Cenk Uygur
100%. So there's so much to go over there. So let me just go as quickly as I can through all of it. Number one, you're totally right. Right? So, like, the. They went and told the papers, in this case, it was actually the Times of. In the uk and so in. First they say, hey, Cenk, you're. You know, the only stated reason publicly
- [07:06]
Dave Smith
is my mistake, My mistake. It was The Times of the uk, not the New York Times.
- [07:10]
Cenk Uygur
So I'm saying, yeah, yeah, it's no big deal. So they. They say that I'm a danger to the public order, which is kind of badass, and I kind of like it, right? So. So, like, if I enter a room, watch out. Mayhem's gon break out. Oh, okay. I'm apparently an enemy of the crown. First, let me just say that, Dave, you're also right that who cares what they think? So, you know, we peers asked me about Valentina Gomez, who's also been banned, her having bigoted opinions about Muslims. I was like, why is she banned? Who cares? So she's a clown, and it's easy to defeat her. And so why would anybody be scared or intimidated enough to ban her? Right? So it's just. Let's have the marketplace of ideas, man. Some skinhead telling us to hate Jews or Muslims or whoever is not going to end the world. It's the. We've had skinheads our whole lives here. And, you know, I drive the groipers and Israel first crazy by saying, I love Jews, so I got Jewish family. What do you want me to do? Not love them. Right.
- [08:13]
Dave Smith
I'm with you. Yeah.
- [08:14]
Cenk Uygur
Right. So, like, what a crazy, crazy standard. But it's hilarious that the groipers and Israel first agree. Right? That's the most interesting part. And so they're like, blame the Jews. Blame the Jews. I'm like, no, I'm not going to. That doesn't make any logical sense. You have to blame people in favor of the ideology, not just random people who are born into a religion. Right.
- [08:34]
Dave Smith
Well, you know, I had. It's funny because I had literally on the show just as a few weeks ago. So I had. I had Nick Fuentes on the show, and every time I have him on or the couple times I've had him on, we. We always get into some type of, like, you know, is it Israel? It's. It's like, I say it's Israel in the lobby, you say it's. It's Jews. And then what exactly do you mean by that? What exactly do I mean by this? And, you know, as. When he gets into it, he's not just saying it's the Jews. It's every single Jew. That's not exactly his case. There's something more sophisticated than that. But he'll be going like, look, it's Jewish money. It's Jewish organizations. It's this. And then I'll be like, yeah, but there's a whole bunch of Christian money and Christian organizations that are also involved in the lobby. And so it doesn't really make sense for me to character. But anyway, so I literally. So I have Fuentes on the podcast, and he's like, no, it's the Jewish money. And then it was like, two days later that John Podhoritz comes out after Thomas Massey's campaign, and he goes, good. It should be known that Jewish money will come get you if you are a threat to the Jewish people. And so to your point, it was very striking to me to just see that there is like, well, well, I'm sitting here and arguing. There's a consensus from Commentary magazine and Nick Fuentes that, no, it is the Jews. And, like, I don't know. There is something very interesting about that. And part of these things, I sometimes feel like almost we're speaking past each other, because obviously me and you wouldn't be denying that Miriam Adelson's money is, like, Jewish money. Like, she's a Jewish person and it's her money. But we would probably feel like calling it Jewish money just gives this implication that you're, like, blaming a group. Why don't we just call it Miriam Adelson's money? Because she's the one doing it. Is that, like, more or less?
- [10:24]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah. So that's actually a super important point. So let's stay on that for a second, then we'll go back to Britain, actually. Sure, sure, sure. So, okay, so look, there's more than one way to look at something. You know, you say two things can be true at the same time, but actually, like, eight things can be true at the same time. Right? So, for example, with Mary Madison, you can call it female money, but wait, is that the defining characteristic? Right. Vegas money, Macau money. Right. You can call it all of those things. And actually, if you called it Chinese money, there's a little bit more truth to that that's actually a little bit more descriptive than. Because one of the main things that the Adelsons asked for from Trump in his first term was a repatriation tax holiday, which allowed them to bring back their money, which the great majority of which they make in China and Macau in their casinos there, instead of getting a 35% tax rate, they got an 8% tax rate, and that saved them billions of dollars, which they then used to bribe Trump even more and get more things that they wanted, including for things for Israel. So my point is, you can make those choices, and those choices are kind of interesting. And the choice that I would make is to Categorize them by their ideology instead of their physical features or what they were born into. So you know, I was born Muslim and so was some vicious terrorist. Right? But we're not in the same bucket because we don't have the same ideology. You were born Jewish and Miriam Adelson was born Jewish, but you guys are not in the same bucket because you don't have the same ideology. So if you said like Zionist money or Israel first money, et cetera, that's at least more descriptive and gets towards the ideology. But if you say Jewish money, that's actually not that accurate because none of the Jewish friends I have which are like nmn family, like I say like dozens and dozens of people that I know on a very personal level and then hundreds of people that I know as acquaintances, almost none of them agree with Miriam Adelson. Almost none of them agree with Benjamin Netanyahu. So why are we lumping them in with Miriam? Right, agreed, agreed.
- [12:35]
Dave Smith
Sorry, I just, just to add to that, like very. I also do think, and I know I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I know the polls would bear this out that because obviously look like Mary Madison is Jewish and that has something to do with her Zionist identity. It's not that the things are completely separate, but honestly if you were to take a look at like attitudes about any of these things in America generation is such a better predictor than Jewish, Christian, Muslim. I mean like if you, if you're talking about old Christian, you know, Boomer, Fox News, Boomer Con, you know, Christians, they're going to be way more in line with the Israel lobby. And if you're talking about 30 year old Jews, they're like voting for Mamdani in New York City. Like they're not on board with the program. Just to back up, you know your point there. All right guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show which is Prolon by El Nutra. Prolon is a plan plant based nutrition program featuring soups, snacks and beverages designed to nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state. It's a, it triggers cellular rejuvenation and renewal by essentially tricking your body into thinking it's fasting. So here's the idea. You've heard a lot about how fasting diets are very good for you and there's a lot of science behind that, that there's real benefits in fasting. But the problem with fasting is that you have to give up food now. You can get the best of both worlds. With pro, you can get all the benefits of fasting without actually having to give up food. And the next gen builds on the original prolon with 100% organic soups and teas, a richer taste and ready to eat meals. It's been developed over decades by USC's Longevity Institute and backed by top US medical centers. Prolon has been shown to support biological age reduction, metabolic health, skin appearance, fat loss and energy. And right now, for a limited time, you can be first in line to experience the new next gen at special savings. Prolon is offering part of The Problem listeners 15% off site wide plus a $40 bonus gift. When you subscribe to their five day nutrition program, just visit prolonlife.com P O T P that's P R O L O N l I f e.com/potp to claim your 15% discount and your bonus gift. Prolong life.com potp all right, let's get back into the show.
- [15:07]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah, 100%. And they're watching the Young Turks. They're watching Dave Smith. They're watching us. No, no, younger Jews are totally on our side. In fact, here's a. Here's another fact that mainstream media keeps hidden from you. 63% of Jewish Americans are opposed to the current government of Israel. So are they all anti Semitic? Are the majority of Jews in America anti Semitic? No. This is absurd. Now look, there's some people on the extreme fringes of the right that blame Jews for everything. They have their own agenda for doing that and drive a little bit more hatred, etc. Right, but the Israel first reason for hiding behind Jewish civilians and using them as human shields is obvious. You weaponize antisemitism. You pretend that Israel hasn't done anything wrong and that people are irrationally criticizing them just because they hate Jews. So then whenever Israel does something wrong, they boomerang the propaganda to criticize the people that are actually blaming them for doing something wrong. They're like, no, no, no, we're not the problem. The people criticizing us are the problem because they're driven by this irrational hatred of Jewish people. Right? So it is a purposeful tactic. In fact, it's a lot like Jesse Smollett. Right. But just done on a macro, national and international level. So they're going, oh my God, I can't believe it. We're the victims. But Miriam, you have like, what a. How I've lost track of 30 or 40 or 70 billion or whatever she has. You know, on what planet is Miriam Adelson the victim, or Larry Ellison, right? Now, if you attack a random synagogue, those people are victims. They didn't do anything. They're random plumbers and dentists and stuff. What are you attacking them for? Right? That's a victim. But to say that the most powerful people in the country that are legally bribing all of our politicians are defenseless victims is traditional media just lying to you on purpose to protect Israel? And you're absolutely right. The people who are the boomers watching television are still pro Israel and, by the way, pro corruption. And they don't know it because they've been brainwashed into believing all of these ludicrous things that serve all the powerful people, not just the Zionists, but. But big Pharma, big oil, defense contractors, et cetera. And that's the job of television, is to brainwash you. You've got to unplug from the Matrix. If you don't unplug, you're purposely poisoning your mind and you've got to get your family members off of it. It's a drug, right? And so Meanwhile, though under 50 years old, across everyone, right, Race and religion don't matter. Israel's approval rating is negative 45. Okay? So. And Dave, it's super obvious what's driving it. It's the media that people are watching. So if you're watching propaganda on television, you would think that the Palestinians are occupying the Israelis and the Israelis are the victims of the Palestinians for the last 60 years, right? And so. And they tell you all sorts of lies that you and I are super familiar with. Then when you come online, something magical happens. It's not just that our shows are better, and to be fair to us, they are better. You'll be way more informed if you watch Dave every day than if you watch cnn. And it's not close, right. But also what happens is, well, Dave and I disagree on some things, and Tucker and I disagree on some things, and then Dave and Tucker disagree on some things. So now you're forced to use your own mind and your independent judgment to make a decision on who's right and wrong, whether it's on Israel or Social Security or the carried interest loophole. And so once we've got people using that muscle of independent judgment, the propaganda is. And mainstream media is utterly screwed because once you use your independent judgment, you look at TV and you go, oh, my God, it's all. Yeah.
- [19:01]
Dave Smith
And particularly, like, there is something. Particularly with the Zionist propaganda, the Hasbara, as it's known where. Because, like, I think there's, there's a couple things going on, right? Obviously it's the, the decentralization of the media, people getting their media through alternative shows where they can actually hear someone present the truth in a competent way. It's also the actions of the Israeli government have really made it pretty easy over the last couple years to, you know, demonstrate why any rational person should be opposed to it. But I got to say, there is also something particularly about how bad they are at this. Like, it's just, it's been a thing that I'm sure, I know it's been a major theme on the Young Turks, and it's been a major theme on, on my podcast for the last two and a half years or so that you're just like, oh my God, you guys are really so bad at this. It's like, oh, it was just that the game was always controlled. As soon as it's level at all, they can't. I mean, me and you. I think the, if I'm not mistaken, the first time we met was when we did a debate together against Bacha and Dennis Prager. And I, I remember genuinely, my feeling in the moment when we were doing the debate was like, whoa, dude, like, I can't believe how one sided this is. Like, I was just like, yo, they're not. Like, it was like after it had been going on for like 30, 40, 50 minutes, and you're like, dude, they haven't won one volley of this yet. Like, it's just. They have nothing. They don't have an argument, you know, and you've, you've seen this kind of. And even I was thinking about this with the, you know, this stunt with you not being allowed to go to the uk. Even as I'm doing this, I'm like, hey, okay, if I were the villain on the other side, you know, controlling the Zionist propaganda and someone came to me with this proposal, I'd go, no, no, no, dude, don't do this. Because this just like, you guys just are not good at this. It just. First off, it totally reaffirms the accusation being made. It's the old Norm MacDonald joke where he goes, you know, Marlon Brando said Jews control Hollywood. And then he met with a bunch of rabbis to apologize, at which point they said, all right, we accept, you can work again. And it's like, oh, yeah, that you doing this proves that the, the accusation was correct. And then on top of that, it's like, is there any feeling just for the way the new ecosystem works? Like, it's like, okay, look, honestly, even as you're saying it, what they denied you really was like a cool moment for your sister and something that would have been a fun time for you because obviously you enjoy doing what you do for a living. And you would have gone and had, you know, you would have enjoyed the appearances. But it's like, I don't know, really, when, when guys like me and you go do live appearances, we might be speaking to a few thousand people, but then when we go back on the Internet, we're probably speaking to a few hundred thousand to a few million people. So it's not like you're really denying. And in fact, way more people are now going to hear about this story. And then, so, like, it's, it's, it just works out in your favor in a weird way. I guess it's just, it's kind of flabbergasting how bad they are at this. Like, what even is the plan here? Oh, that did it. That shut it down. You know, Cenk Uygur couldn't go to the uk I guess we all love Israel again now.
- [22:15]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah. So, first of all, Dave, you're an awesome debating partner. I mean, if I'm going to go, like, there's only, there's the top three people I'd take with me are you Anna Kasparian and Tucker Carlson. Like, the. Any combination of the two of us. Not a bad.
- [22:33]
Dave Smith
That's not a bad little team. The. The five of us or four of us. That's not bad.
- [22:38]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah, no, no. And it was that night. And people go back and watch that video. It's a fun video. I mean, it was an annihilation. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, this isn't fair. We're just slaughtering them. Right? And so. And the reason is, as Banes had told Batman, victory has defeated you. And so what happened with the Israelis is. And their supporters is that they got flabby and they had control of. Yes. And they can kiss my ass if they disagree with this of mainstream media completely. And we can get into why and how later. And so they weren't used to arguing. They were just used to, like, these silly talking points that are so easily pushed over. Right. Like, oh, you have to. You owe Israel $300 billion because they're a special ally. Well, what does that mean? The minute you ask, what does special ally mean? It's instantly defeated because it's nonsense. You can call anything a special ally. And they're like, what do you mean? We've been Brainwashing Americans to think that they're a special ally and that's why they owe them hundreds of billions of dollars. I don't know how to answer you if you say that they're not a special ally, right? So. And, oh, everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti Semite. Like, all of these talking points are like, super weak because they were never battle tested because no one was ever allowed to argue against them. And if anyone argued against them for a nanosecond, they were taken off the air. Right? So that's why now when we go into battle against these gu. They. They're. I mean, now I debated Kevin o' Leary the other day on Diary of a CEO, and it felt like he was lying down. Like, he was like, no, Moss, I don't. I don't want any part of this. Right? And so sometimes it's because they, they're, you know, their talking points suck and they've lost the debate and I'm now seeing like, Zionist eye debate getting demoralized live on air. Right? And it's not because you and I are so good. I mean, I think we're okay. I think we're pretty good. But it's because they really have nothing to stand on. When you go to imperial evidence and factual stuff, oh, the Palestinians are terrorists. But then, wait a minute, your civilian kill ratio for the IDF is worse than Hamas or Hezbollah, and you've killed 100 times the number of civilians. And we all know you're targeting them because you're doing double taps and you're hitting hospitals and schools and churches and mosques, et cetera. So they don't have any evidence. We have all of the evidence. Like, if it was debate club, they'd be like, no, no, no, no, this isn't fair. We got to switch it up, right?
- [25:05]
Dave Smith
Well, if there's. I use this example sometimes because, you know, like in, in debate club, in high school or college or whatever, though, which, and this is a way, this is to test, like, if you want to test who is the best at the sport of debating, what they do is they have you switch sides of the resolution or like, there'll be a resolution and you got to be prepared to argue either side. So the way I say it, like, like to. I always go, hey, I'm not that great of a debater. I don't think I could win on their side. Like, if they got all, if they got all my points and I had to take all their points, I don't think I could win that debate because there's so many better points on this side. Like, that's really just what it comes down to is it's just like, I don't know, dude. Like, your. Your side says that we have to annihilate all of Gaza because of Hamas, and then my side gets to go, well, first of all, no, you don't have to. And number two, you funded and created Hamas. And you're like, I don't know. This is a way better side than the side saying we need to. By the way, I want to talk to you about this, because the moment we're in, literally right now, right now, is like such a perfect microcosm of the whole thing, of exactly what we're talking about. So you have right now a situation where we are desperate to get out of this catastrophic war. We desperately need to rescue the global economy. Clearly, Donald Trump has accepted that he needs to get out of the war. He won't admit that, but he wants to get out of the war. He. It is such a clear example of where there are the US Interests and even the interests of the United States government, and then there are the interests of the Likud Party who say, no, we want southern Lebanon. And they've already announced that they want to annex the southern part of it. And so they go, no. Donald Trump forbids Israel from striking Lebanon, and so they up it and have their largest strikes in months. And now, as Donald Trump is trying to get a ceasefire, the Israelis just go, no, this is a country that's very. Survival, let alone their ability to conduct any of these military operations is completely dependent on us. And yet when their interests diverge, they just do what they want to do, and we know there'll be no ramifications. I mean, like, what. What can you argue against there? This is just an intolerable dynamic for any. Again, it's not a left or a right issue at all. It's a basic sovereignty issue. And. And they got nothing in response.
- [27:41]
Cenk Uygur
So let me connect those two topics, right, Because I love the shoe on the other foot idea. I talk about it on the Arcturus all the time. Well, okay, what if you went through this instead of them? Right, But I hadn't. Through that mental exercise, you just forced me into, what if I had to debate the Israeli side? And the minute you said it, I thought, I swear to God, instantly in my head, I was like, I went through all their arguments in, like, about a couple of seconds. And then I thought, oh, I know what I do. I would shut down the debate because you can't win. So you got to shut down the debate. That is a totally unwinnable side. So you know, pull a hamstring, pull the fire alarm or call everyone anti Semite so you can't have the debate. And that's why they're.
- [28:21]
Dave Smith
Or get come in and talk about whether you're an expert or you've never been or you've never, you know, it's like all the stuff that they call you an anti Semite or I've seen a dozen of your different. Of your debates where that's exactly what they're doing. Just trying to stall you from getting to the point you want to make about Gaza. Yeah, that's what essentially that's the best way to play it. Like, I don't know, Douglas Murray did the best thing he could have done against me. What else was he going to do?
- [28:45]
Cenk Uygur
So can I, you know, I owe you a debt of gratitude on that one, Dave, because I debated Douglas Murray on Piers Morgan like way before you did. And he pulled that same bullshit about have you been there? And, and I was like, what fucking difference would that make? You went on some propaganda junket, et cetera. But at the time the situation was not as, you know, clear as it is today. Right, right. So at the time that was right in the beginning of the conflict, Gaza conflict. So people are like, oh yeah, you haven't been there. So he wins. Haha. Right. And all that stuff. And then you eviscerated Douglas Murray and then people then went back and they were like, oh, Cenk was right. Yeah, what fucking difference?
- [29:28]
Dave Smith
Right. Well there's, well there's a few things. Well, there's a few things there. Right. There's a few dynamics. So number one that I think you correctly pointed out is that I got them, you know, like over a year later. So I had over a year more of the entire public being turned against this whole thing, you know, or maybe it wasn't a year but some. Something like it. It was months later at least I had a big window of just atrocities being committed since there. But then the other thing that really, because a lot of this is like the social psychology of it, this is the way people are persuaded. Is that part of it too? Is that you got him on a remote Pierce Morgan debate, whereas I got him in a room with Joe Rogan for three hours. Oh yeah, there's just. I had him, I had him more in a situ. But, but not just that he's screwed that it's like there's the Piers Morgan thing. And this is just kind of the nature of it.
- [30:21]
Cenk Uygur
It.
- [30:21]
Dave Smith
It's almost anticipated this is going to get into a food fight. This is going to get into something where it's. I'm getting one up on you. I'm getting. But when you got Joe Rogan, the most likable, biggest, you know, guy in. In shows, and he's sitting there like, hey, I love both of you guys. Let's just be cool and get down to the real issue here, you know, And. And so then in that environment, it just becomes that much more obvious. It's. It's not like, oh, yeah, you got an own. I've been. And you haven't been. It's more like. It was just more obvious that, like, oh, you don't actually have anything to say. You don't actually have a response. And so this is. This is it.
- [30:56]
Cenk Uygur
It's actually. It wasn't.
- [30:57]
Dave Smith
It was. A lot of it is time and place and, and situation.
- [31:01]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah. And. And it's. It's exactly why Kamala Harris didn't do Rogan's show, because in three hours, you're going to get exposed one way or another. Right. And so Murray wasn't going to ever, you know, beat you in that context. And so. So. But you did a public service to everyone, so that was awesome.
- [31:19]
Dave Smith
Well, thank you.
- [31:20]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah. And so now, though, we're at a time right now where we're at the most critical decision point. So I'm really happy that I'm talking to you now, because what I want to establish on the record for everyone. Oh, by the way, before I go on to that, your point about Piers Morgan is so right. So now when I go on, like, Sean Ryan's show or Tucker's show or Diary of a CEO or wherever I go, like, sometimes people are like, oh, that's weird. Why isn't he yelling? Well, brother, I don't have to yell if someone is some mad Israeli isn't shouting over me. Right?
- [31:52]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [31:53]
Cenk Uygur
And Lex Friedman. Oh, my God. Four some odd hours of a perfectly civil conversation, really intellectual conversation. I loved it. Right. So anyway, so we're at this critical point now because like you said, Trump says, okay, nanny how. Cut it out. No more bombing Lebanon. Let's get to peace. Because Exxon Mobil is saying, guys, even if we don't restart the war, a barrel of oil is going to 150 to $160. So there's going to be an economic iceberg we're going to hit that is kind of inevitable. And if you restart the war. Oh, my God. You know, they didn't get into that, but now we're talking about $200. I mean, people have no idea about the devastation that's about to happen, okay, Economically. And so Trump has to get out of it. I mean, he can't. It'll obliterate his term, his legacy, his reputation, the economy, the. His party, the country. So it'll ruin what people think of Trump. So he must get out. Now, on the other hand, you have. Netanyahu comes out and goes, no, shut up, Donald. I'm going to bomb Lebanon even more, and I'm going to bomb Beirut. And Ben GVIR says, bomb the suburbs of Beirut where the civilians are. Mass bombings, right? So they say, basically, America, who the fuck do you think you are? Okay, we're in charge. You're not in charge. So now, the reason why it's such good news that we're talking today is because we're all about to find out together who's in charge, right? So if America, if Trump goes, look, this is a bridge too far. Now, I get it. You guys gave me hundreds of millions of dollars, and you have this, and you promised me secret deals and Trump Tower and all of that and the Trump Riviera, but this is going to destroy me. So, no, I'm pulling out. That means America still has some level of sovereignty left, Right? But if we then go, oh, so sorry, our overlords, we told you to stop, and you told us we're losers and that we have to obey you, and so now we're obeying you and going further into the war, then Israel doesn't have a little of influence, a little control. No, that means they have 100% control over Trump at a minimum, and over, certainly our government and our media. And now I don't get to determine that. That's why we do predictions on the Young Turks. I'm telling you ahead of time so you can see with your own eyes, because, Dave, you and I know that after it happens, if it turns out we go back into the war and follow Netanyahu's commands, everyone on TV and the New York Times, et cetera, will turn around and go, oh, no, you can't say Israel influenced that. No, no, no, no. Like America was going to do that anyway. They always do revisionist history. So if you say it ahead of time, you'll know that there is a script, Right? And there is a certain pattern here, and you can discern it.
- [34:44]
Dave Smith
Yeah, I can't argue with that. I wanted to ask you about this, this Axios piece from yesterday, which is, you know, I'm not really myself, completely sure what to make of it. So there's a piece that essentially is saying that they, you know, Axios has, has throughout this entire war served as the mouthpiece of the regime. They're, they feed it stories and they run the stories that they want to.
- [35:08]
Cenk Uygur
They.
- [35:09]
Dave Smith
It's unbelievable how, how much they can just get things wrong and then just keep moving. You know, like, they've reported on the deal being done several times already. Seems to be some blatant market manipulation going on there. But yesterday they have this piece that Donald Trump has a furious phone call with Benjamin Netanyahu and he's cursing him out and he's like, you're a maniac. Now, to be fair, Axios has had other pieces like this before. And if you remember, Crystal Ball made this point on Twitter recently that, like, yeah, they used to run these pieces about how Biden was cracking down on Israel behind the scenes. And then, oh, Trump's furious at Israel behind the scenes. And it's not, I don't know, there's something in it that, to me, at least on the surface, I tend to go like, this is all just made up. Because also, even just given like the 12 Day War, I mean, the exact same dynamic went on there. Israel lured us into the war, set the no enrichment standards, poisoned the negotiations, led the first attack, and then when Trump wanted the off ramp in a ceasefire, they kept the bombing up. And then Trump, you know, has that one comment where he says they all don't know what the fuck they're doing or whatever. It's like, so part of me is like, this isn't real. But if it is, like, there's basically two options. Either that's not true. And yet the administration wants us to think that behind the scenes they are cracking the whip on, on Israel. Or it is true. In which case it's exactly what you just said. It is like, okay, so what comes of that? So you told them they didn't want. They're not allowed to do this thing. They're doing it anyway. And you do what? Because I will say, like, you know, I was listening to an interview with Jeffrey Sachs recently, and, you know, he said something in a very simple way that I think maybe I've been kind of under acknowledging this whole time, which is that he's like, what's all this talk about a deal? We don't need a deal. Why do we need to make a deal with the Iranians like there's. We're worlds apart on the nuclear issue, we're worlds apart on intercontinental ballistic missiles, we're worlds apart on proxies. There's no deal to be made here. But we could just stop and come home and not support Israel anymore. And what are they going to do? Keep the Strait of Hormuz closed and make everyone in the world hate them forever doing something blatantly illegal? No, eventually they're going to have to stop and they'll just get to it. So anyway, the point being, short of whatever grip the Israel lobby has over Donald Trump, there's no law in logic that says we can't just do all of that. Okay, you're furious at Israel. Tell Iran, you know what, we can't control Israel, but we're not helping them anymore. So between you guys, they'd be fine with that. That'd be the best win they could hope for.
- [37:56]
Cenk Uygur
Let's just do that. So, Dave, again, we're talking at a perfect time because the proof is about to be in the pudding and we're going to have a definitive answer. But let me break down what you're saying. So Anna has a theory that, well, first of all, Brock Ravid is former Israeli intelligence, right? So, okay, now that doesn't mean that he's not reformed, you know, and now in media, etc. But back in the Biden days, you know, we, we are not normal Democrats or people on the left, right? So normally, you know, you do propaganda for your side. That's like the old school way of doing media, but we started doing it new way 24 years ago where we're like, no, we're going to call on both sides. And so when Biden would do those strongly worded calls or letters to Netanyahu, we would moc him to no end. What? A little, right? Oh, here's $21 billion to commit a genocide. But, oh, Bob, please don't. I beg you, Israel, I beg you not to kill all of them. Why are you begging them?
- [39:00]
Dave Smith
How about, dude, remember there was one week where he sold them weapons and asked him not to use the weapons. He just sold them. There was one week where, like, he said, I forget the type of bomb it was, but he gave it to him and then went, but please don't use this. And then they used it. You're like, yo, dude, what is this?
- [39:15]
Cenk Uygur
It's just, it's pathetic. And, you know, I hate it under both Biden and Trump because not only are we losing our sovereignty, but we're Losing our self respect. What is this groveling to a country the size of Papua New Guinea. That's their population. It's nearly identical. And it's. And when you put in Papua New guinea instead of Israel, everybody realizes how absurd it is. But it's because of, you know, mainstream media brainwashing that we think, no, no, Israel, like, yeah, even though they're tiny, they should control us. We should go into every war for them. We should pay $8 trillion of the global war on Israel's neighbors. So, okay, so Ana's theory is, yeah, Barack Ravid has done this a hundred times. He basically works for the Israelis, and he did it under Biden, he did it under Trump, just like you said. Right. And so these are all fake outs to make it seem like we're two different entities. But in reality, Israel calls the shots, and this is all fake theater and drama. So that's perfectly legitimate. And maybe that's exactly what's going on. But if that's true, okay, then you have your answer. Israel's in charge. Okay, now to exactly to your point, now if you go to the other scenario, that's the scenario that I was describing, right? So maybe in this case, they really did have a blow up and Trump really is frustrated. That doesn't sound unrealistic, right? He's like, Netanyahu, why are you making me destroy my reputation and my presidency and my country and my party? And Netanyahu says, shut up. Okay? And now we're going to find out in that scenario, well, who's the bitch, right? Who serves who? Who's the overlord? And we're not. It doesn't matter what we say, and it doesn't matter what the religions are. What matters is what happens in the real world. So if we go back into this disastrous war and you, everyone will see with their eyes, their own eyes, how disastrous the economic fallout will be. It will be because Israel made us. Because Trump doesn't want to be in. We don't want to be in. 80% of Americans don't want to be in. And so now again, though, if it turns out that that was real, and I think that, I don't know, there's some percentage chance it is real. Right. And so I'm with you. I'm not really sure what's happening here. I'm not as certain as Anna is about it. Right. And so. But if it is real, and then Trump draws the line on Netanyahu and we leave, then great, then we're not controlled by Israel.
- [41:34]
Dave Smith
Terrific.
- [41:34]
Cenk Uygur
Okay. Now they still have massive influence. They got us into the war in the first place. They got us to do the first war. They got us to give them hundreds of billions of dollars. Now they're looking to merge our militaries, which is insanity, right? So, but okay, apparently it's not 100%, but if we go back in, it is 100%. And so you can't argue with it. You can, you can call people anti Semites and try to shut down the debate, but it's crystal clear what's happening happen. And Dave, I think that Israel has lost its mind, right? Netanyahu and all those guys. And we can get into the culture of the population if we want. That's a separate topic. But the government has definitively lost its mind because here's an easy peace deal that America can make and there's two possibilities for Israel here. One is that we take Dave Smith's advice, which I couldn't agree more with. And in fact, I'll just. I think that there is a deal to be made. I disagree with Jeffrey Sachs just a tiny bit. If I was in charge, I'd go to the Iranians, go, hey, listen, you don't really care about the highly enriched uranium. You were just doing that to make sure we don't attack you. Right? I get that it was for leverage. I know that there's a fatwa and I know that you don't have a missile that could deliver it anyway. Okay? And you've already agreed under the Obama deal and under two different peace offers that you let us take out the highly enriched uranium and you get some sort of energy program verified by international monitors, you open up the straight of Hormuz, we lift a blockade and we're done. We're done. There's no other interest at all. They're ballistic missiles. Countries are allowed to have ballistic missiles and their ballistic missiles can't reach us. So why do we care about their ballistic missiles? That's Israel's issue proxies. Other countries are allowed to have allies. No, we're going to tell you how to run your form. No, you must have Israel run your foreign policy. That isn't American interest at all. That's their business, not our business business. And then at that point, if Israel wants to keep fighting Iran and Lebanon, go ahead. That's not our problem. That's your problem. No, you have to give me your military. No, we don't. You have to give me all your money. No, we don't. You have to fight all my enemies for me. No, we don't. You have to make me a regional and as Netanyahu said, potentially a global superpower. We have to make Papua New Guinea a global superpower. That's somehow an American interest. No, no, that's absurd. We don't have any of those interests. So in that scenario, then Israel's screwed because Iran has a lot of drones and a lot of missiles and Israel now realizes, oh, we might have messed with the bear here. Right? So that's scenario number one. Scenario number two is they drag us into the war. Hey, they won. They got American military and American soldiers to fight their war for them. No, but then gas is going to go up by A dollar and $2 and inflation is going to be horrific and the markets are going to crash. The markets are driven by lunatics. At this point, I can't believe it hasn't already crashed, but it's inevitable. And then no matter how much propaganda, mainstream media and the government does, and no matter how much they ban us from all the different Western countries, it's not going to work. The dam is going to break. The dam's in the middle of breaking as we speak. But if they cause that kind of economic catastrophe here in America, Israel will be more hated than Jeffrey Dahmer. Israel will be the most hated thing in America. And so how does that help Israel? So these lunatics have set up a lose lose for both themselves and America and the world. So why are we listening to the lunatics?
- [45:02]
Dave Smith
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Crowd Health. I love this company and we've been promoting them for many years. You gotta check out Crowd Health. It is the alternative to the broken health insurance system. And now they're introducing the Black Swan membership, the healthcare alternative for those who want autonomy over their care, their costs, and their lifestyles. For just 75amonth, you get a team of expert bill negotiators, access to low cost prescriptions and lab testing, and a curated database of high quality, low cost doctors vetted by Crowd Health. There's no insurance middleman and no networks dictating your care. It's you in the driver's seat. And what many of you are wondering is what happens if there's a major Black Swan event? Well, you cover the first $15,000 and the crowd steps up to help fund the rest. It's like the freedom we used to have before Obamacare turned health care into a bureaucratic nightmare. So get your health care on your terms. Use the promo code potp@joincrowdhealth.com and you'll get your first three months for less than $80. CR Health is not insurance. Opt out. Take your power back. This is how we win. Visit Joincrowd Health.com and use the promo code POTP today. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, yeah, no, that is a, that is a valid question. You know, I want to, I wanted to kind of ask you about because. Well, because it's me and you having this conversation, and you've kind of made a big point over the last few years to. I don't know how to exactly say it, to kind of plant your flag in the idea that you're in the let's have conversations across the aisle camp. And I'm not talking about, you know, with politicians, like literally across the aisle. I mean, with people and people who are. Differences in opinions. You're more of a left wing guy, and you have a lot of conversations with people like me or Tucker or people who are more right wing guys. And this inevitably gets a lot of backlash. There's been, I know there's been left wingers who have criticized you for, for taking this approach, and I'm sure I will get some criticism for having you on my show. And you know what I mean? Like, it's kind of inevitable that you'll get some criticism for having this conversation with me, and I'll get some criticism for having this conversation with you. And I've always found myself, I mean, I've always just been firmly on. In agreement with you on this. It seems almost absurd to me. It all. It almost becomes a thing where I'm even not sure what people's objection is, but there is this weird dynamic where people will say, oh, so now, Dave, you're allying with the left. And, and, and I'm kind of like, well, but what even do you mean? Like, what do you like? I'm. Yes, I'm having a conversation. It's the same thing people do on all sides, by the way. Like, when I have Nick Fuentes on, they're like, oh, so you're palling around with Nick Fuente. You're. You're legitimizing Nick Fuente. You're platforming, and you're like, dude, just say the actual thing. So you sound as ridiculous as you do. I'm talking to him. That's what you're upset about. I'm having a conversation with somebody like, what? And, and it does. I, I don't know. I just find this to be a very bizarre dynamic. And I always. I've just, always, since I've been into politics, I've always had this thing where it's like, if you're ever going down a path where your enemy is your neighbor, you're going down the wrong path. That is just not correct. And it's not that your neighbor maybe doesn't have his problems or have a different way of living life than you do, but that. And that is true. There certainly are a lot of that. And you may have some bad neighbors. I'm not saying your neighbors are all great, but, like, yeah, in the United States of America, you're not being oppressed by your neighbor. You're really not. Like, that just is not the. There are powerful interests who have rigged this entire economy and our entire government policy against the American people on behalf of a very small group of powerful people. And those are your enemies. And if they're not, you're not doing political commentary.
- [49:16]
Cenk Uygur
Right.
- [49:16]
Dave Smith
Like, you're just. You're not helping.
- [49:19]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah, so let me break that one down and show you that. Sorry, but the other side is empirically incorrect. Okay, so why is it a matter of fact? Well, first of all, they say, well, you shouldn't talk to anyone you don't fully agree with. Why? What a weird thing to say. Do you know anyone that you agree with 100%? And are we supposed to, like, ban people from having any conversations in personal life and public life unless they agree ahead of time to agree 100%? I mean, by definition, that's a mental standard. No one can defend that standard. And so. And in fact, that standard was applied to us, of course, even before I started talking to Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson, etcetera, they said, well, you disagree with us on transports on whether crime went up or not in the major cities between 2019 and 2023. I'm like, so what? You disagree with me on a bunch of other things. And so why do I have to agree with you? Why don't you have to agree with me? Oh, okay, so. And by the way, did we ever vote on it? What? Did the left or Democrats ever vote on those two issues or any of these issues? No, we never voted on it. You just declared yourself king, and you must agree with me. And so by definition, that's a. An argument that is not correct. Because anyone can claim, no, you have to agree with me. And now we're in the deadlock. We're in a stalemate. So intellectually, it makes no sense at all. Number two is, am I asking you to marry the guy? Am I asking you to vote for the guy? Right. Am I asking you to make Candace Owens the senator from Missouri? Am I saying that, you know, from now on you could only go fishing with Sean Ryan? No, I'm just asking you to have a conversation with the guy. Number three, if you're voting on an issue so now I guess relevant with Tom Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene because they were in Congress, right? If you say to someone coming over to your side on the left, we've always been anti war, right? And they come over and say, hey, I'd like to vote with you on anti war or cutting off Israel's funding or being against the genocide, and you say no to that. I'm not allowed to use the R word anymore. But that's what you are. Okay, like, no, I don't want your vote. Agreeing with me is perhaps the least intelligent thing that you could ever do in politics. It's defy sense, I defy anyone to have that make sense. Right? So, and then finally, look on the super important and hard issues, whether it's ending a war, ending a genocide, ending, or getting money out of politics, you literally cannot win without both sides, all sides coming together. So in order to get money out of politics, you need an amendment. That means you need three quarters of the states to ratify it. There are too many blue states and there are too many red states. So if you're a right winger thinking, oh, I'll get money out of politics without any of those do gooder liberals, I don't need them, you're totally wrong. You do need us. There's too many blue states. You can't get an amendment passed, Right? Same thing for the left. I mean, my God, I've been fighting for that constitutional amendment through Wolfpack for the last 15 years, right? And my biggest opponents are establishment Democrats. They used to be my biggest opponents used to be the Koch brothers, American Enterprise Institute, neocons, et cetera, right? Then Pelosi came along and she told all of the state legislators, you are not to work with Wolf. PAC convention is dangerous. Change, change is bad. And then she had all these people parroting, change is bad, change is bad. Don't do a convention, right? So the reality. And they're like, and I asked those guys, every time, I'm like, okay, so you're going to get an amendment without working with the right wing. Go ahead, tell me how you're going to get 38 states. There is no way to get 38 states without the right and the left working together. So anyone who's trying to do that is trying to divide us. They might not know it consciously, but they're helping the propaganda of traditional media who divided us in the first place. Traditional media did. Right. So. But wait a minute. Why am I on the left and you're on the right? If we agree on, let's say, make up a number, 40% of issues. So what is. Why do we have to hate each other? Why do we have to fight? Why don't we agree on the issues that we agree on and disagree on the issues we disagree on? I mean, I say things like this that are so obvious, and then I get attacked for it. Really? That's the hill you want to die on. And. And Dave, I'm super proud that, you know, like you said, I planted my flag on that. And if I'm known as the guy who's pushing for unity so we could end the corruption and we could end the wars, I mean, yeah, please, you know, whoever's on the left attacking me for that, attack me more. Tell everyone that I'm for unity and, And. And making sure that we unify enough to get our country back.
- [54:21]
Dave Smith
Well, there's. To me, it seems that obviously, like, a lot of this stuff is, like, within reason and just applying common sense, but certainly, like, if there was some, I don't know, whatever, you know, like, if there was a. Like a Maoist authoritarian, you know, from my perspective, just really horrible politics. But we agreed on one small issue. They're like, yeah, I'm probably not going to coalition with that person over a small issue. Like, if we agreed on some, like, zoning law in. In a local ordinance or something like that. But he's like a Maoist probably. Okay, all things I'm not gonna want to, but, like, what it comes down to is how important is the issue that we're talking about here? You know, like, to me, that has. So. So, like, even just now when you were talking about money in politics, I think me and you have a slightly different view or maybe a pretty drastically different view on that. And that would be a really interesting conversation. Like, we could do another podcast and do. We could talk for a whole hour about that topic. But, like, this podcast is kind of in my mind about us coalitioning on this current war that's going on. And the reason why I'm more interested to talk about that with you right now is because, like, my God, man, there's a war on right now, and the global economy hangs in the balance, and like, thousands of people have been killed. Like, we killed, like, 200 little girls on the first day of this strike. It's being done with our money and our name. And, like, I don't know. I. I judge that. That's the most important thing right now. And I know when I was on the Young Turks, I think I made the comparison to, you know, like, if we were. If it was 1845 and we were both abolitionists and then we just started arguing about tax policy the whole time. It's like, my God, man, there's human beings are enslaved right now. Like, it's incumbent on you to put those differences aside and work with. And then the other thing, which, look, maybe this is just a simple. Just the way I am. Look, I don't know what to say. If I was. This is from my perspective, but I think if I was watching an episode of the Young Turks in 2017 or 2018, and then I watched an episode of, like, I don't know, like, Steven Crowder show or something, I don't know, I might have agreed more with some of the stuff he was saying than the stuff you guys were saying. But today, if I watch in, you know, like, if I'm watching, like, Bannon and Jack Posebiak pretending there's a deal and celebrating how Donald Trump just got a historic win when it's just so obviously not true. It's just like, sitting here watching people lie to me in. In the dumbest possible way, and then I turn on an episode of the Young Turks, and I'm like, God damn. Cenk and Anna are nailing it. So, like. And by the way, from my perspective, I haven't changed at all during this time. You know, like, I mean, maybe a little bit around the edges, but. But I'm pretty much still agree with the same stuff. So, sorry, like, don't come at me for that. It's not my fault that these guys are lying to you and these guys are telling the truth. But that's kind of where we're at right now. And at least to me, I go, look, since. At least since October 7th, you know, the. Now there's certain guys who, in my opinion, have always just been phenomenal, who are left wingers. I mean, Jeremy Scahill and Glenn Greenwald and guys like this. I think I've just been phenomenal reporters, and Ryan Grimm is a phenomenal reporter. But if I'm listening to Crystal Ball or Jank Uygur or anyone over the last two and a half years talking about foreign policy, I think they're largely getting it right. And, and so what is the expectation here? That I'm not supposed to, like, interact with the people who are right about the most important thing right now? And for everyone else, I think it's, you know, left and right are useful terms, and there are meaningful differences between my worldview and yours because, because of our different perspectives. But it's also like, you can't, when you're talking about people, they're not defined by their politics. Dude, issues are much more important than whatever you think your, you know, worldview is. What actually matters is that there's kids dying right now in our name and it's destroying our country. That's what matters. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Superpower. I love this company. I'm thrilled that they're on board as a sponsor. I don't know about you, but I feel a lot of the times like when I go to the doctors, they essentially don't do anything. I don't know. I mean, they, they, you know, they give you a basic physical, but they don't really find out what's going on with your health. Now if you really want to find out what's going on with your health, you got to check out Superpower. Check this out. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab. It's up to you. It's one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, which is way more than what you usually get. And it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Body. Then they have an app. So their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, even environmental toxins. So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simply optimizing your gym game, Superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced system out there. You can figure out what supplements you need, how much sleep you need to be getting, what your diet should focused on. Superpower comes up with an actionable health plan specifically designed for you. And prescription suggestions like pep peptides can be directly bought through Superpower so you don't have to go anywhere else. But it's even more than that because Superpower doesn't just give you a one time snapshot. It tracks your results over a lifetime. Each test builds on the last one so you can actually see the progress that you're making. Instead of starting over every January with some vague I'm going to get healthy this year plan, you actually know how you're doing how you're getting healthy and what your body specifically needs. So really cool company. It's really interesting. Definitely check them out. Head over to superpower.com and use the promo code problem at checkout and you'll get $20 off your membership. You can detect early signs of over a thousand different conditions. This is a really cool opportunity. If you care about your health, this is the way to level up. Superpower.com promo code problem for $20 off your membership. All right, let's get back into the show.
- [60:20]
Cenk Uygur
So, Dave, I didn't know that we disagreed on money in public. So I have to leave immediately. We don't have 100 agreement, so we have to shut down the entire conversation.
- [60:27]
Dave Smith
Yeah, yeah. There you go. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll get. You know what, that, that would actually be a really interesting subject for us to talk about because it's not exactly that I disagree with you. It's more that my perspective is that when you have a government that's so powerful, it's going to be impossible to ensure that it's not rigged by someone. That doesn't mean I'd be against. That doesn't mean I'd be against some ideas that could maybe make it less easy to rig. But when Washington D.C. moves $7 trillion every year, you know, you find the example I always give is like, so Hillary Clinton, you know, it's illegal for Saudi Arabia to give money to the Hillary Clinton campaign, so they give her foundation a hundred million dollars. You know, like, so, like, no matter how you're gonna write the. The guy. The, the point is that Saudi Arabia is going to find a way to gain favor with whoever the next commander in chief is. And now look at all these things they're doing with, with Donald Trump. It's like, I mean, I'm probably. Some of that is illegal, but at the same time, I just mean I think it's almost like it's like the Lord Atkin ultimate absolute power corrupts absolutely. And it's like if you don't lower the level of power, you're not going to be able to lower the level of corruption, if that makes sense.
- [61:35]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah. So look, I can't wait to have that debate with you on another day. And.
- [61:39]
Dave Smith
Yeah, yeah, we don't have enough time. So it's.
- [61:41]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah, but, but I know that you can't criticize the Clinton foundation because you haven't been there.
- [61:47]
Dave Smith
I have not been. I have not been to the Clinton Foundation. Let me just say one more. And then you know what? I'M sorry that I shouldn't have gotten into that because we don't have time to get into a whole new topic. But I'll give you the last word on this. But I did want to say, because there has been, at least I've seen this dynamic. It's some. I talked about this last time I was on Breaking Points, and I'm kind of interested to, to get your reaction to this because, you know, when I, I mean, part of it, I got in some arguments with like Kyle Kalinsky and Mehdi Hassan over this. And these are two people who I look, I probably on foreign policy, have large areas of agreement with both of them. But I just felt like, and this is, I think kind of goes to the spirit of what you're talking about. There was this moment where after this war, and look, it probably should have happened earlier, should have happened last summer when I turned on them. But of the whole podcaster coalition where I'm weirdly a hybrid, like, because I do stand up, but I'm also more of a straight political commentator. But I'm friends with a lot of people in this world. But there came a moment when, like, all of these guys, many of whom helped get Trump elected, from Tucker to Rogan to Theo Vaughn to Tim Dillon to Andrew Schultz to, you know, I'm missing some names in there, but a whole bunch of them essentially all turned on Donald Trump over the war, you know, like, to different degrees. And then I would watch as a group of left wingers all thought that the moment there was to go, told you so. Ha ha, you're an idiot. You voted for the guy. And like, and what I said back to them when I was arguing with Mehdi on it was, I was like, hey, Mehdi, I got anti war. Street cred, if nothing else. Like, I've been anti War for 20 years. I've been, I always talked about it when I was going on Rogan. I would talk about Yemen all the time. This became a running joke because I just kept talking about Yemen and people like, no one cares about this. It wasn't like Gaza, where all the cool kids wanted to talk about it, but it was a genocide all the same. And so I kept bringing it up and kept talking about it and, and when Gaza came and the whole anti war left came back, I never thought for one second for my response to be, well, you guys voted for Obama and Biden and therefore look at all the dead people that are on your head. It's just at a point you're like, guys, what are we trying to do here? Is this about patting yourself on the back or this is about maybe we got a shot of like preventing the next genocide or ending the kind of current ongoing one like isn't if you care about the issue. When I saw all the young leftists getting anti war again on Gaza, I was just like, oh, let's go. Yes, this is great. Wouldn't you be glad that all of Trump's people are turning on him again?
- [64:25]
Cenk Uygur
This is another one that's indisputable. So for two reasons. So when I first started talking to Charlie Kirk that, you know, the world collapsed in on us and I remember the reaction. Yeah, yeah. And you know, most of the rest of the left attacked us. And what happened with Charlie and Tucker and the rest of them? Oh, right. Charlie started becoming more opposed to Israel before he was killed. Right. And so why was he starting to become more opposed to Israel? Because he was talking to other people. He was getting other, you know, ideas that he wasn't exposed to before. And by the way, his audience mainly drove that and they should. They get the lion's share of the credit by far. Right. And then Tucker turned against Israel and, and their wars and their genocide and then Megan did and then Piers did and, and they all did. So we had.
- [65:17]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [65:17]
Cenk Uygur
And if we hadn't done that and we hadn't talked to them, you know, would that have happened? Maybe, but. But maybe not. And so that's, that's what. Look, especially if you're on the right side of an issue, why wouldn't you talk to other people and try to convince them of it? Is that point is to so irrational. It boggles the mind that they keep saying that. And in the beginning, look, there's two different camps. There's a lot of folks who just got wrapped up in the tribalism and they got into the cycle of hatred. And you have to hate MAGA and you have to hate the Republicans. You have to hate the other side. But to your point earlier, Dave, I mean, I said this in my jubilee episode, I say it all the time on the Young Turks. The guy on your left didn't rig the system. The guy on your right didn't rig the system. And by the way, the guy below you also didn't rig the system. Look up, look up, look up. The people in power with all the money and the power, they're the ones who are rigging the system. And I'm gonna shock every cable news actor here. The wealthy and the powerful would like to keep their wealth and Power, I know that's a foreign concept to them. They're like, yes. And do they sometimes conspire in terms of giving campaign contributions as an industry or a government or people who support a government to get their way so that they retain and add to their wealth and power? Of course, of. You'd have to be a lunatic to think that they don't. They're like, oh, no, no, no, we're not going to protect our wealth and power. Just take it from us. Right? No. And so by having those conversations, I hope, I believe that we began to move the needle, right? And move a public opinion. If we hadn't engaged in that, it would be a terrible mistake. Now, the second point is, guys, when someone says yes, take yes for an answer. Take the win. What is wrong with you? I mean, brother Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield out in Vermont and Bernie Sanders, right? That's like your prototypical anti war left, leftover from Woodstock, right? Those guys have been holding down the anti war fort for longer than we've been alive, Dave. And so, and so when. And when, by the way. And how did they react when the cavalry arrived and some of the right wings started to be vocally against the war and the genocide? They were thrilled. I've talked to Ben Cohen. He's like, yes, finally the right wing is on our side. That's how a person reacts when they care about the issues, when they care about the policies and the effects in the real world, when they are not into the partisan games and the tribalism and do I want my audience to be larger than your audience? And yes, there was a portion of, they are not all of them, but a portion who were like, oh, it's a good opportunity to attack someone on our side to take their audience and say, aha, he's a heretic. He's talking to the witches. So he's a witch. Let's do a witch hunt. Right? And who was right and who was wrong? Who, you know, and they sat in their caves and didn't do anything. And we got went out there and. You did, Dave. I did. And so many others did. Who, who came out and said, no, no, no, no, no, let's actually find a way to find common ground here. And to your point about how important these issues are. And I'll finish by coming all the way back to Britain in a second. So I'm on British media today because of the ban. And they, you know, I got into a little bit of argument with the hosts on lbc, whatever that thing is, and she's like, well, you said that this is one of the most important genocides of our lifetimes, but how about the Holocaust? I was like, I wasn't around in the Holocaust. In fact, I always thought, when I was a kid, I wonder what I would have been done during the Holocaust. Would I have fought like hell to make sure it didn't happen, or would I have been quiet? You know, you don't know until you're tested. Well, now we know. I would not have been quiet. Right. And they would have told me, oh, you're fighting the Holocaust in the wrong ways. You've offended the Germans too much in the way that you fought the Holocaust. Right? So. But that wasn't in our lifetimes. Then she brought up Rwanda. And I'm like, wait, is your main argument that this genocide is not quite as bad as Rwanda or Yemen, and hence it's okay? Like, that's the worst argument in the world. Right? And so. And we didn't pay for Rwanda. We halfway paid for Yemen through the Saudis. Right? So, like. And you were right to be livid about Yemen and I was livid about Yemen.
- [69:40]
Dave Smith
Well, also. And we conducted it with them. Is the, is the big one as well. I mean, our navy was doing the blockading and our.
- [69:46]
Cenk Uygur
But.
- [69:46]
Dave Smith
But yes, to your point, yes. I mean, I mean, look, again, if you want to get into, again, look, you could make an argument that Obama starting the civil war in, in Syria or toppling Gaddafi in Yemen, or like, if you want to get into arguments about what was the bigger, like, catastrophe for humanitarians, it is kind of debatable. I think the thing that kind of, like, changes Gaza particularly is. And then this just does change the morality of it, much like with the Holocaust lost with Hitler and the Jews, is that those were his citizens. You know, and even though they don't call them, they don't call the people of Gaza Israeli citizens when they're a captive people. You've had them since 1967. Those are your people, whether you claim them or not, in the same way that the slaves were, you know, George Washington's responsibility, whether he claims them or not. It's here. And so there is something particular about, like, a captive people that cannot leave because you make them not allowed to leave and then just destroying their civilization while you hold it to me. There is a moral difference to that. But yes, to your point, once you've gotten down to the point of where you're comparing this to other, you know, humanitarian catastrophes, it's like, okay, fine, so they're all very, very bad, then let's be against all of them.
- [71:06]
Cenk Uygur
And. And like I said, we didn't pay for Rwanda. But I'll end on, right. So we're being forced, like, we have to go get a second job to pay for Israel's wars and genocide.
- [71:16]
Dave Smith
It's insanity, Right?
- [71:18]
Cenk Uygur
So now, Dave, I'll end on this. So, you know, if in 1942, people were like, no, you shouldn't have an alliance against the Holocaust because we've got a disagreement on taxes or Medicare or something, we'd be like, yeah, no, those are important. Those are really important. But we're gonna get to them after we end the Holocaust, right? So some things are more important than other things. So if you come and say, hey, let's do an alliance against this war so that we don't kill 200 more little girls in Iran, so we don't waste $8 trillion more on needless wars in the Middle east, so we don't have 76,000, at a bare minimum, slaughtered in places like Gaza. Yeah, that's more important. And that's a thing that we've got to tackle first. Doesn't mean other issues aren't important and that we're not going to tack them. But even more important than that, and what could possibly be more important than war and genocide is our own sovereignty. Because if we're not making the decisions and we're not in charge and it's not a democracy, then it doesn't really matter, right? Because all of our opinions are useless. No one in power is listening to them. So that brings us back to the ban. So they say that I criticize Israel, and hence we're banned now, you know, historically, the British Empire, the gravest offense was insulting the king. If you insulted the king, off with your head. Right, well, now I can insult the king. I could insult the British government. I can insult the American government, any other government I want. I just can't insult Israel. So that means Israel is the new king. So I didn't make that declaration through their actions. The United Kingdom did. So we have them funding 94% of Congress here, being the top lifetime donor to Trump, Biden, and almost every one of our leaders, we have them deciding to ban people from Britain based on insulting Israel. So don't tell me that they don't exercise control. I was just the recipient of that control. I can no longer go to Scotland or London or Bath or anywhere in the United Kingdom because Israel won't allow it. So until you get your freedom back, back until you get your sovereignty back and we go back to Western civilization and not being run by a country the size of Papua New guinea, then all the other issues are irrelevant because we're. Our debates are pointless. No one cares who wins that debate because we're not in charge. Neither side is in charge. The people with all the money are in charge that are the donor class. So we have to defeat that first before we do anything else.
- [73:57]
Dave Smith
Yep. I. I'm with you on that, man. Cenk, thank. I know you're busy, man. I really appreciate you taking the time out and coming on the show. And of course everyone knows the Young Turks, you. They're all over YouTube and every other platform. But anything specific you want to plug where people can find more of your stuff.
- [74:12]
Cenk Uygur
Yeah, thanks, Steve. So I. Thanks for having the conversation. I love talking to you and just, I, I love smart people. So. Yeah. So, okay, two things, guys. Number one, we have a 24 hour channel and not everybody knows that that's on Roku Samsung YouTube TV now on Amazon Prime. So whichever platform you're on, just type in Tyt as in the Young Turks and we'll pop up and, you know, watch all of our programming. It's a variety. It's interesting. Dave's on from time to time as a guest host on Young Turks. And then the other thing is we're live 6 to 8pm every day and that's on YouTube but also on every other platform that we can get on. So six o' clock Eastern live on the Young Turks, me and Anna Kasparian and, and sometimes Dave and sometimes Glenn Greenwald and sometimes Ryan Grimm, etc. So we'd love to have everybody there. Thank you, Dave.
- [75:03]
Dave Smith
Oh, thank you, Jank. Really appreciate it. And thank you guys for listening. Catch you next time. Peace.
- [75:24]
Cenk Uygur
The essential dining experience is set long before the plates are plated, the sauce is simmered or the puree hits the pan. It starts with a simple blend that's consistent, purposeful and precise, trusted by the world's best chefs. So you can bring your best Vitamix. Only the essential.