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- [00:00]
Jillian Michaels
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Dave Smith
Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I'm very excited for this one. Thrilled to be joined by Jillian Michaels, who is I. You. There's a lot of titles you have, so I'm not quite sure what I should give her an introduction. She's a. A fitness guru known for her television shows and her many books, several New York Times bestsellers. Has kind of been in the health world for a long time and has recently become, I think, pretty outspoken with support of Bobby Kennedy and criticisms of COVID insanity. And I think a very interesting part of this kind of massive political realignment, this. This crazy moment that we're all living through. And so I. I really was very excited to talk to you. So thank you so much, Gillian, for. For taking some time out for us.
- [00:58]
Jillian Michaels
Thank you for having me. I literally tried to find Adderall to keep up with you today. I don't take it. I was like, does anybody I know take it? How am I going to be on Dave's show? I mean, I have been watching you for years now and learning from you, and I'm really excited to be on. I'm gonna do my best today.
- [01:15]
Dave Smith
Oh, well, thank you so much. That's very kind of you. And, well, I appreciate that. And as you know, I've told you this personally before, but my wife is, like, a huge, huge fan of you. She was so excited when we were on Pierce Morgan together, and then I ended up getting triggered by Joe Walsh, I think, and just yelling at him the whole time. But you, like, said something nice about me, and she's like, do you have any idea what this means? Jellian Michaels likes your show. And I was like, yeah, no, I know. It's cool. But anyway, thank you very much. That's very kind of you to say.
- [01:46]
Jillian Michaels
Oh, my gosh. I. I think it goes without saying, but I'm glad that me liking your show matters. I now see Joe Rogan deferring to your positions, but I'm glad that. That. That she could get excited about me being a fan. That's great.
- [02:00]
Dave Smith
Well, this is the right. For. For the. For my. My brother, Joe Rogan doing it is really cool. For my wife, she's like, yeah, whatever. But tell me more about Jillian Michaels. This is incredible. It must. So I wanted to ask you because I'm very curious about this, and I. I thought one of the. One of. I mean, there were many. But one of the really fascinating things to me during COVID times, it started pretty early in the lockdowns was. It was just this very bizarre thing where we have, like, what is a health emergency, right? And then immediately the first response is like, shut down the gyms and keep open the liquor stores. And then there are. There were a lot of people in kind of the health world who understandably, sort of objected to that. They were like, yeah, this. And I'm. Was this kind of, like, part of your story, too, or what were your, like, politics before the. The COVID era? How did they change through that? I'm. I'm curious.
- [03:01]
Jillian Michaels
I was exceptionally liberal pre Covid, and I am guilty of understanding why you might close a gym at the time when the hospitals were overrun, and I had caught it from a friend and I was perfectly fine, but it's. It was obviously very transmissible. And at that time, we were worrying about our parents, and we didn't know who was vulnerable, and you were hearing all kinds of craziness. So when I first heard all of this stuff, like, it came from a wet market, and we need to close the gyms. And if we can just control this for two weeks, we're going to get a hold of it. Just two weeks, guys. Just stay strong. And then it's week after week, and all of a sudden the stories don't add up and the science doesn't make sense, and you're seeing all of these incongruencies and policy. And one from California that was my absolute favorite is what I call the COVID layer. So when you were allowed to go to a restaurant, you had to wear your mask. And when you would walk from the hostess stand to the table, you could catch COVID So you must wear your mask. But once you sit down and you begin eating and talking with other people in a room filled with other people, you see, you were below the COVID layer, right? And at that point, I was like, this is bananas. You started to see absolute madness and inconsistencies and hypocrisy and silencing doctors that were exceptionally credible. And I started to feel like Neo in the Matrix, like I think many of us did.
- [04:42]
Dave Smith
Yeah, no, when. I mean, I remember I used to joke around about this. So when I first started doing. Because at first. First they just. The comedy clubs were closed, but then once I was allowed to get back out and do stand up, they'd have, like, you know, capacity restrictions sometimes. But they did the same thing at comedy clubs where you had to wear your mask as you walked. But then once you sat down, you could drink and eat and laugh. This is what everyone's doing there is there to laugh. Yeah. And what. This was the most bizarre thing of it to me. So like I'd be on stage looking at a crowd so that my perspective is like, I'm watching everyone. And sometimes you would see someone like get up to go to the bathroom and not put their mask, like, forget, you know, like they, they get up and other people would start looking at them like, whoa, like, hey, you're up there. You're up there where there's Covid, you know, and it's like there was something about just like the ability of people to, to follow rules that made no sense at all. It was some like real time Milgram experiment thing. Like just an expert said this. So we're all going to pretend this makes sense, even though it's so obviously like the guy was just sit to you and I could see you getting nervous as he stood up. It's just totally bizarre.
- [05:50]
Jillian Michaels
I could not agree with you more. And unfortunately there were so many examples just like that. And it just began to grow my concern exponentially. And if you, as you begin to look a little bit deeper, it's like, God forbid you pull on one thread when the whole facade starts to fall away. It gets pretty friggin nefarious. Dave.
- [06:17]
Dave Smith
Yeah, yeah, no, it really does. And I'd. I'd imagine, you know, there was a, one of the, you know, there were so many different little dramas and within Covid, but one of the things, and I, this, I, I was thinking about this earlier today in anticipation of you coming on, but I know there was this one, there's this, this Dr. Hotez, right? So he, this is the guy who like refused to debate Bobby Kennedy on Joe Rogan's podcast. And Joe brought him up recently, the other day, and he was just kind of making the, you know, the case about how the guy's like overweight and eats junk food and doesn't exercise, but his life's work is making sure everybody takes vaccines. And he was all about demonizing all of the people who were skeptical about the, the COVID vaccine, if that's even what you can call it.
- [07:07]
Jillian Michaels
No, and I did. Let's call it a shot.
- [07:09]
Dave Smith
I. Yeah, I mean, it's not, it's not a vaccine in the sense of what everybody always meant by the term vaccine. But I guess, you know, updated definitions, very conveniently updated definitions. But I did think there was something. And this isn't like, okay, they're like, I'm not saying it's a law of logic or Something like that. Like you could, you could smoke two packs a day and say cigarettes are bad for you. And you're right. Even though you're, you know, kind of being a hypocrite. You're the, the argument you're making isn't necessarily wrong.
- [07:38]
Jillian Michaels
Right.
- [07:39]
Dave Smith
But there is something kind of fascinating and in a way this is part of, to me, what Bobby Kennedy represents. There is something fascinating about like really unhealthy people lecturing everybody else about their health. And then you look at somebody like Bobby Kennedy who is, however, whatever you think of the guy, clearly personally very committed to health. Like, I don't know, he's like in his 60s and doing like 15 pull ups and then hitting like the. And it's just like, okay, that's to me kind of impressive and something we ought to like, that's a good example for, for people. And there's just something where it's almost like there's this weird dynamic where it seemed to me like the, the. So Candace Owens said this once. It really hit home with me. She said something, she goes, you know, after October 7th, a lot of people demanded that we pay attention to what's going on in Israel. And then a lot of us started paying attention to it, right? And they, people got upset that we didn't have. And it almost seems like there was this demand to have a national conversation about health. And then a lot of people were like, okay, let's have that conversation about health. And now it seems like, oh, you guys don't like where the conversation is going. But as somebody who's been in like, this has been your world, this is your life's work, it's got to be kind of an interesting position to listen to. Like these people who clearly do not take health seriously, pretend that they're the champions of it.
- [09:04]
Jillian Michaels
Now I don't think that that is the argument. They're actually making vaccines. Now listen, this is my personal position, so we can get this out of the way from go. Two things can be true at once, right? Vaccines can save lives and they can also cause tremendous injury. Now it's more rare, but we don't really understand what causes vaccine injury. And asking the right questions, mitigating how many vaccines a human being gets from birth to 18 years old, these are conversations we need to be having now. The COVID shot vaccine. I was just talking to Dr. Heather Hang, Brett Weinstein's wife, and she's like, it's gene therapy. This is not a vaccine. So that's out of the mouth of a PhD. This is big business. I don't think these people are advocating for health. It's big business. I think that is what their agenda actually is. And when the conversation did start to become about health, you saw the pushback. And I don't believe in my entire life, I have ever seen an individual quite so demonized as Bobby Kennedy. I mean, he eats dogs. Do you remember that one?
- [10:25]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [10:26]
Jillian Michaels
That was in. I think that was actually in Newsweek, so help me God. Or Vanity Fair. He eats dogs. He is a predator. He is deranged. He's got worms in his brain. I mean, the attacks were relentless and vicious. As soon as it became about, I don't know, childhood obesity, infertility, autism, man, it was a whole different animal at that time.
- [10:54]
Dave Smith
Yeah. And it's really. I'll say I've never seen a presidential campaign, and I've. I've talked to both Bobby and Nicole Shanahan about this several times, but I've never really seen anything quite like his presidential campaign, which obviously, like, he didn't end up winning the presidency, but he ended up kind of leveraging the millions of people who supported him into getting the Health Department in this very interesting, you know, Maha Maga coalition, but where he essentially took an issue that no one in politics was really talking about, and he said, I'm going to make this the centerpiece of my campaign. And it has now become one of, if not the most dominant, like, political issues of our time. This is. If it wasn't for Bobby Kennedy. Nobody else is talking about the health crisis in this country, at least in a political level. I'm not saying there's not like any sociologists or. Yeah, like, there's a nutritionist out there who's talking about it, but, I mean, like, somebody running for president who's talking about the fact that, like, we lead the world in chronic illness. Like, how does that not come up all the time? It just seems so wild on health.
- [12:05]
Jillian Michaels
Care, by the way.
- [12:06]
Dave Smith
Yes, yes. And it's all because of this. I mean, I remember, you know, years ago reading about that, like, back when it was like, the Obamacare debate in, like, 2009, 2010. I remember reading about how, like, the CDC estimates that 70% of our medical costs are from preventable illnesses. And, you know, like, wow, that should. That should probably be at the center of this conversation because, like, if you have. I think essentially the point is that whether you have a completely free market, privatized health insurance or a completely socialized health insurance system, if you have obesity rates through the roof. If you have, you know, if you lead the world in chronic illness, it doesn't matter. It doesn't really matter who's floating the bill. The problem is the health. I mean, like, the problem is the health of our country. And it's just wild. I've just never seen anything like this before where, like, one guy made this issue into an issue. Now that that has to be addressed. I don't know that anyone will be able to run for president in the future without having an opinion on this stuff.
- [13:05]
Jillian Michaels
Certainly hope that's the case. I remember speaking with Cali mean, so I'm going to presume you're okay. I figured. So Callie is one of the masterminds behind this Maha Maga union. And this has to be about a year ago, and we were sitting down talking on a podcast, and I was pretty feeling that the situation, as it stands for Americans and health, was pretty dystopian. And I didn't have a ton of autism, a ton of optimism about it. And I remember after Callie was like, listen, I'm working on something. It's going to get better. It's going to change. I was like, it's never getting better and it's never going to change because special interests are too powerful and they have a grip on our politicians, and they're the ones that are pulling the strings. And there was no possible way unless you reform campaign, find it. And here, Dave, here we are. So credit to where credit is due, because you're absolutely right. This is not a new message. If you go back to a book that I wrote over 15 years ago called Master your metabolism, I mean, I talk about red number 40. This is not new news. It was a more liberal movement for sure. If you looked at Marion Nestle and Maria Rodale and Mark Bittman and Mark Hyman and Michael Poll, we were all raging liberals. Nevertheless, it went nowhere. Nothing changed, and it only got worse. So how this magic moment occurred, I think it's multifactorial. I think Covid was a part of it. I think people were completely disenfranchised with both political parties. I think you had a few brilliant people with their hearts in the right place. And a little bit of magic has happened now, how much he will be able to achieve remains to be seen, but I promise you that he is far better than the alternative. And if I could point out just a few things, if we were to criticize the fact that he's not an MD or a PhD, neither is Xavier Becerra, who was head of HHS before him. And if we're going to ask questions about childhood vaccines and that's deeply alarming to do and demand gold standard research and what have you and have placebo groups like this is so scary and why would we do such a thing? But like let's, let's say that's really. You're alarmed. Xavier Butera and his administrator the Biden administration moved to remove. I promise you Google it. It's true. Any age restriction on gender affirming care, which is a really fancy way of saying sterilization, taking away a child's ability to have an orgasm, interrupting their brain while it's developing in puberty. I mean the atrocities qu mostly associated with medicalizing the transition of children to do that at any age and remove any and all restrictions. Where was the outrage about any of the crap that they did or didn't do? Not a peep. But then you have a guy that wants to facilitate real change and has been given that mandate and everyone's up in arms fighting for the pharmaceutical companies and gene therapy is vaccines. It's surprising.
- [16:21]
Dave Smith
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- [20:17]
Jillian Michaels
I think that what happened is you're absolutely right. It began with our parents who bought into it's affordable, it's convenient. I remember my little microwave breakfast in plastic that had two little pancakes, two little sausages and like, you know, God knows the chemicals. And my little, I would friggin bake that in plastics. And my mom was like, we are winning. That is two minutes, it's ready to go, it's healthy, it's a real breakfast and we're out the door. She didn't know any better. And even still, my evolution in health and wellness was about losing weight and looking skinny. And then it became diet foods and Lean Cuisine was healthy. There really wasn't information up until I quite honestly want to say the early 2000s when you saw the rise of the crunchy liberals I mentioned previously. But when you look deeper at how this happened, and I'm going to steal a page from Calimene's book, it's, it's in the 80s when the big tobacco companies bought the big food companies and they ran their playbook. But if we want to go back farther, Dave, it starts with Big Ag being captured and corrupted through the first incarnation of the farm bill. And basically, long story short, how this evolved is that we have spent over the last 20 years a half of a trillion dollars in our, in our tax dollars going towards genetically engineered seeds that are covered in chemicals that were derived from chemical warfare like Agent Orange. So now when you've got Franken corn and Franken weed and this, that the other, and you have subsidized it and it's exceptionally cheap and exceptionally poisonous and nutrient empty, Big Food grabs it. They take their team of multidisciplinary scientists that study your kids behavior and yours that have learned how to target the bliss point in your brain so you can't eat just one and absolutely brag about it, which is even more.
- [22:31]
Dave Smith
Yeah, that's right. That was their slogan.
- [22:33]
Jillian Michaels
Yeah, don't worry, you will be overweight and unhealthy because you cannot eat just one. We gotcha. And then Big Pharma is the third piece of this toxic triad and they swoop in and they medicalize everything and they pay off all of the studies. I mean, let's be honest, this system is rigged from top to bottom. And we're just starting to wake up to that, I think in a big way. And moms is, in my opinion, are always where the grassroots Movements start and take hold. Thank goodness.
- [23:10]
Dave Smith
Yeah, well, I just think it's like there's, there is something about, you know, I mean I'm not saying it's not true for fathers too, but there is something about the connection between mothers and their kids and how they really just kind of like you. They're invested in their kids safety and protection and health. And, and so yes, I, I think that it, it does make sense. It's also like there's, you know, I, I think like, you know when I, because, because I talk about this a lot of times, like I'll talk with my mother or with my, my, my in laws and it's like sometimes I think we lose appreciation for like my mother in law was telling me about how, how strict her parents were about her cleaning the plate. Like you did not, I mean you could not leave the table without. When you, you zoom out and you think about it, you're like, oh, they were only, I mean they were first generation America. They were only one generation away from people who legit at food insecurity. You know what I mean? And so of course it's like this all kind of crept up on us pretty quickly. Where we went just in a few generations from being like my God, if you have a piece of food in front of you and you don't eat that thing, what an insult that is to all these people who don't have food. And you know what I mean, like your parent remembers being hungry as a kid themselves. So of course it was just like eat, eat, eat. And then all of a sudd. Very short period of time to transition to not just tremendous abundance of food but tremendous abundance of very unhealthy food where it's like hey, no, we actually need to pump the brakes and think about what you're eating. And all of these things are all, were all so brand new that I think, you know, like I, it obviously was going to take people a little bit of time to catch up. I think it's wonderful they are catching up. I do. One of the things I always find fascinating, even as you kind of discuss this and, and how you were very liberal, you know, for many years, is that it is interesting to me that this just inherently seems to be, I mean, I guess it's a human issue that we should all care about, but there's no way you could ever convince me that this isn't something left wingers or liberals should care about. This is more of a left wing liberal issue than it is a right wing issue. I mean like you're talking about big corporations stacking the deck against ordinary people. And by the way, there's also a huge class issue that comes into this equation where, you know, it's really, you know, like, people who are doing pretty well. It's not that big of a deal for me if I got to spend more money for my kids to have the healthy food. But for people living on a very fixed income or a very, very tight, you know, living paycheck to paycheck, that's a huge issue for them that like, they, they would have to like triple their grocery bill in order to get grass fed meat and, you know, whole foods and all of this stuff. And it seems like that that's just, it's like an issue that's right there for the left to care about. Of, of this is your issue, guys. Like, this is a completely unfair system rigged against the, the, the working class and the poor.
- [26:04]
Jillian Michaels
But you, you know why they're not saying anything about it is because they've also been captured by special interests. And it's funny that you bring up marginalized communities. These soda companies target children of color two to one. Where's all your systemic racist talk now? Like, where is the outrage now not appeal? They literally go after their heroes, their celebrities to capture their kids like Pied pipers of fast food addiction. And nobody's mad. They go after the poor with programs like SNAP, or I think it's called women and children programs that we have food programs for people who are less wealthy, not as well off, however you want to marginalize, however you want to describe it in the most politically correct way possible. Nevertheless, they are absolutely targeted. They are the ones that are being preyed upon. They are the ones that are being marketed to and they're the ones that are having this crap forced down their throat. But should you question whether or not sodas should be removed from programs like SNAP food stamps program? That's racist because now you're denying. I swear to God. And again, I want to give credit where credit is due. This is Cali Means pointed this out a couple years ago now because like the Hispanic Freedom League or the NAACP is taking such massive donations from the fast food companies and the soda companies in particular, they run right out there and they're like, this is, this is racist for you to take away these valuable calories from children of color who are, you know, in poverty. It is diabolical when those kids are being targeted by those bastards two to one.
- [28:03]
Dave Smith
I, yeah, I, so I, I'll say a Couple things on this that just literally just come to my mind. So I remember I, I went to briefly, I went to college in Oneonta, New York. It's like way upstate, halfway to Canada. Upstate New York. And oh man, I hated it. It was boring and cold. There's nothing to do except drink up there. That was the only part I liked that part. That part was cool, but the rest of it sucked. But I remember it was like this. I'd always lived in New York City my entire life. And so it was like the first time I was ever like living in like a small town. And I remember just being blown away by how fat all the locals were. And then the fact that there was like there was nothing in this town, but there was every fast food place. Yeah, I mean, There was a KFC, a Burger King of Wendy's, a McDonald's, like every single fast food. There was an Arby's, there was that. That's all they had. It was like bars and fast food was all they had. And every day you would just see like these incredibly overweight families eating this fast food. And even at the time, this is like 2003 or something like that. I was like, man, this is just seems bad and you know, not knowing that much about it, but I was like, this sure ain't good. And. And then I remember. So when I lived in, in New York City, this was like about probably around like 10 years ago is before I had kids. But my, my, my very good friend Louis J. Gomez is also very, very talented comedian. He. So I lived in the Upper west side and he lived in Harlem. And so it was like, you know, like a 15, 20 minute walk. And I used to do the walk all the time. I'd always go over and visit him and his kid up at, at their house. And you know, like, if people know New York City, like, the Upper west side is a very white neighborhood. Harlem is historically a black neighborhood, which is changing a bit now. But I remember like, as you'd make the walk, you could just see the food stores changing. Like it goes from like on the Upper west side, everything was kind of health oriented. And then as soon as you started getting into the convenience stores in Harlem, it's all gushers and can't. And so like, while people like kind of go like, okay, restricting SNAP programs are racist, it's like, yeah, but what about this? Like, isn't this kind of messed up? And I'm not saying, like, look, part of that is, is a cultural issue. Part of it's an education issue. You know, like, there. There is truth to the fact that.
- [30:32]
Jillian Michaels
Like, Dave, you are 100, right?
- [30:35]
Dave Smith
Right.
- [30:36]
Jillian Michaels
Your. Your instinct is absolutely accurate. And I would imagine in upstate New York, in this area that was rural and more poor. Y. I guess they're white, right? I. I mean, now they do target, as I mentioned, people of color 2 to 1. However, they go after poor people across the board, and that's why you have these food deserts. All of this is by design. And if we. It's a much longer conversation about how they managed to do it. But it has been going on for just about 100 years. And it started with how they gamed the agriculture so that all of the money went to Monsanto's places, you know, the. The big farming industrial complex, that whole thing. And it's. It after World War II mechanization, and then it's like, oh, no, we've got a ruled food issue. Okay, let's give more to these genetically engineered crops. It.
- [31:37]
Dave Smith
It.
- [31:37]
Jillian Michaels
There's a whole history to it. It's exceptionally diabolical. It's dense, but it is absolutely by design. And your instinct is 100% right.
- [31:48]
Dave Smith
All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is she. Sheath Underwear, longtime sponsor of the podcast. You guys have heard me talking about sheath underwear for. For years at this point, and I really do love them. I mean, there. I. I can't say it enough. The most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you will ever own. The only underwear that I ever wear. Literally, every time you hear from me, I am comfortably in a pair of sheath underwear. You got to check them out. Look, they're a longtime supporter of the show, so just for that reason alone, go support them. But also, while you're at it, get yourself the most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you will ever own. They also have sh. Hoodies and a bunch of great stuff. Check them out@sheathunderwear.com and make sure you use the promo code problem for 20 off your order. They ship anywhere in the world. Sheathunderwear.com promo code problem for 20% off. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah. And it's just. It's. It's just wild to me that, like, that doesn't seem. It's almost like out of. And. And like, as the point I made, like, it was. It was poor people in Oneonta who were white people, and then it was the. The. The poorer people in Harlem who happen to be black people, but it's like there There does seem to be a weird thing to me where I'd watch like, in this dynamic, like Upper west side versus Harlem, and it's almost like the, The. The kind of liberal, the. The weird racialism that kind of took over over the last 10 years where there was. It's almost like a white guilt type thing that you don't feel like you guys don't live this way, but you don't want to tell them, hey, there's a better way to live, or like, try to move to that because then be bigoted of you to like impose something on that.
- [33:29]
Jillian Michaels
But it's like you actually. Yeah, it's like, it's ableist. It's racist. It's actually called being able. They have labeled people who have done that ableist and racist. And in fact, gosh, I can't remember her name, but there was a doctor who said calling junk food junk food was racist because marginalized people of color needed junk food. And I remember thinking, we. We have absolutely left Kansas. Like, this is. The world has inverted itself. I mean, we're. And it was during COVID But one more thing is the healthy in any size movement.
- [34:12]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [34:13]
Jillian Michaels
Derail the shame narrative. All of this comes from big Food. It's not even a question. I encourage people to Google it. There was an expose, believe it or not, not in the Washington Post, that exposed it. So they're paying registered dietitians and influencers in Health Online to be promoting those hashtags like, derail the shame. Healthy at any size. That's all a psyop. And then they tapped into this, you're right, white guilt. So that even doctors were afraid to say to their patients of color, you need to lose some weight. Yeah, it's Kate. Dr. Casey means talks about it. It. It's. You're spot on.
- [34:52]
Dave Smith
Well, I think, you know, I felt for a while like I, you know, I think there's like, there's. There's inherently, I think, benefits to like, like kind of a left wing worldview. And there's benefits to a right wing worldview. And I mean, kind of like abstract and. And then there's weaknesses. And I think that like, I always felt that like after 911 in the George W. Bush terror war days, they kind of like. It's almost like they. They short circuited right wingers. Like they tapped into what their weakness was. And their weakness was just having this kind of this base of like patriotism and good versus evil and this. And. And once you tapped into that, it was like, we gotta go See about Saddam hussein, he did 9, 11 or something like that. And like, if you tried back then, if you tried to talk to a right winger, like, logically, and you were like, no, no, listen. And Saddam Hussein's Baathist party hates the radical Sunni terrorists. There's no way they were working together. Like, these guys are mortal enemies. It was just like, oh, so you're saying you're on Durka Durka side and you're not on USA side? And it was just shut down the conversation. And then likewise over the last decade, I feel like there's something which. Which probably, much like with the right wingers, it probably originates from, like, a good place. I'm not talking about the people rigging the system. I'm talking about regular people. Yes. You know, like, where. Where there's this. This desire from liberals to be like, we're not the bigoted ones, you know, we're not the racists. We are not the people who are mean. We're the people. We're not the religious superstitious people. We follow the science. But then the problem is, like, when they. When they tap into that and they go, okay, well, if you say that this fat person is fat, you're a bigot. And if you say what the CDC says, you're following the science. It's like they. They shortwired people. They got them to turn their brains off and start going, like, look, I'm not. Nobody here is saying, like, be a dick to fat people. I'm not saying like, make fun or make some. Don't be a bad person. Don't be shitty to anyone. But come on, let's get real. Like, no, big is not beautiful. Big is unhealthy. And the correct move is not, you know, if you have somebody who. In who you love, who's a heroin addict, you don't say, like, heroin is beautiful. And. But you know what I mean? Like, you try to help them get help and get better because that's how you live. And it's just. What. It's been wild to see that this actually took off.
- [37:14]
Jillian Michaels
Not only did it take off, I mean, it was wildly popular. So the. In my opinion, there are two reasons why. The first one is cancel culture. And I experienced this personally in 2019 from the infamous incident where I was asked by a crappy little interviewer, I don't even know what I was doing on this interview on buzzfeed. I don't even know what I was. What was I doing on Buzz buzzfeed? And she asked me if I celebrated Lizzo's. Lizzo and Ashley Graham. And I didn't know who Ashley Graham was at the time, but I knew Lizzo because my kid liked her music. And I was like, she's a great artist. Why? And she's like, well, you know, of course the big question was like, do you celebrate the fact that she's obese? I was like, well, of course I don't celebrate the fact that she's obese. Because if you really like her, you want her to be around for a long time, Right. Wouldn't it be terrible if she got diabetes? Oh, my God, Dave. It was a catastrophe. AT T had a deal with my app. They pulled out. I had like a post schedule for this dog food company. Thought that I like, who was like, we're not gonna post her. Like, we don't want her working with our company. It was, wow, insane. So I think when people see someone else being taken to the gulag, right. You know, stoned in the public square, they're terrified into silence. But the other component of this that we are still seeing in spades is the moral superiority and that high which comes from virtue signaling. I am the empathetic one. It reminds me of Ralph finds with rape, Ray finds in Schindler's List where he's like, I pardon you? Like, it's truly evil actual.
- [39:02]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [39:03]
Jillian Michaels
And it's purely about your own ego and making yourself feel holier than thou. But I think it is those. Those two elements of fear and narcissism.
- [39:16]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [39:16]
Jillian Michaels
That have allowed us to become vulnerable to this. This kind of, like, brain virus, quite literally.
- [39:24]
Dave Smith
Yeah, I, you know, I think that's exactly right. I think that's exactly right. And the, the, you know, the latter part that you're talking about, they're both really important elements to it, but that kind of. The kind of ego boost that you get off of that virtue signaling stuff, it is such a. It is such a poison. It's something all human beings have. Are somewhat vulnerable to. And if you want to be a decent person, you have to actually fight that impulse. But anytime you're just feeling really good about yourself, when you haven't actually done anything, like, it's great to feel really good about yourself when you've done something that's wonderful. But when it comes more. And then there is. And I will say I. I've always. It's a. Particularly with. With women. Not 100%, but particularly with women, there will be this kind of like, you just see. You see, like, young girls with, like, like bikini bodies, talking about how awesome Lizzo is for being overweight. And you're like, I think I see what you're doing here and I don't think there's anything positive about it. I think this is, this is a weird tactic, you know, yet not only.
- [40:32]
Jillian Michaels
Is it a weird tactic, there were so many fitness people that ended up doing that and then, you know, putting like, oh, we're, we're gonna put like obese mannequins in fitness clothes and we're gonna. It, it, it was absolutely exactly what you're talking about.
- [40:51]
Dave Smith
There's.
- [40:51]
Jillian Michaels
I, there's one woman in particular who shall remain nameless, but had a bit of an eating disorder, but was fairly large in fitness. Is. Is less well known now, but still pretty well known and appealed greatly to more millennial slash Gen Z. And you've got this rail thin white girl talking about like, let them eat cake like you piece of.
- [41:16]
Dave Smith
Yeah, because it's like, she knows Dave. Yes.
- [41:21]
Jillian Michaels
You bastard.
- [41:22]
Dave Smith
Yeah, come on. Like you're doing. And there is something, some comedic. God, I can't remember, I should credit them, but it was such a funny joke. I can't remember whose joke it was. Was. But someone had the joke where like, there's like, girls, girls keep saying Lizzo looks great. And he goes, okay, well, why are you so offended when I tell you you look like Lizzo and just like kind of says it all right there, where it's like, look, if you are especially like, if you're working hard because, like, particularly when we're talking about younger women, like, sometimes people just have good genes and they look great, you know, but some people, particularly the people who work really hard at it, it's like if you work really hard to look great and then you feel good about yourself because you look great, which is totally, like, noble and that's wonderful. But then you're turning around and like complimenting some other girl instead of encouraging her to follow your path, it's like, no, I actually think that's evil. I think that's like a really wrong thing to do.
- [42:14]
Jillian Michaels
You're totally right. It's absolutely part of the problem. And even greater irony is all of those virtue signalers like Oprah then turned around and jabbed themselves with Ozempic at the very first opportunity.
- [42:30]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [42:30]
Jillian Michaels
Oh, my God, this hypocrisy is staggering. Absolutely staggering. And it's. It's exactly that. It's like, how can I, you know, elevate myself as a really good person? And how can I feel better than you or make myself feel and appear better than the people who are saying the opposite. And then there are the people that are just legitimately scared. Doctors that are legitimately scared to tell their patients they need to lose weight because they're worried they'll get sued. And this is real. It's called medical McCarthyism. And I hear about it from all the different doctors that I interview all the time. And it's from COVID to obesity and everything in between.
- [43:20]
Dave Smith
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- [46:14]
Jillian Michaels
Yep.
- [46:15]
Dave Smith
Like, what's gonna happen to you here, man? Just say it. Put your shoulders back and just say it. You know what I mean? But then also, I was like, well, maybe I shouldn't be so judgmental. It's like a. People, like, just don't want to deal with a headache, and it's. It's enormous. It's something that kind of like the. The dominant, you know, progressive insanity of the last few years, like, they really figured that out. They figured out that, like, if you can really have a mass shaming campaign, you know, while they're saying, don't shame fat people, don't shame. Don't sh. You know, all the attacks on shaming, but they know exactly how powerful shaming is, you know, and so it's like, oh, okay. Well, like, you know, again, even with, like, some of these topics, like, I'm not saying. I'm not advocating to be mean or to be overly, but they're, you know, like, with the slut shaming thing. I don't mean this for women or men. I mean, for both men and women, like, yeah, there should. There should be some degree. There should be some degree of shame. Like, I don't know. Like, yeah, if you're like, just like. I don't know. If someone came to me, it was just like, man or woman? They were like, I just had sex with five people in the bathroom. I'd be like, what are you doing? You know, like, Jesus, Jesus Christ, like, get your life together. What's going on? And, like, there is never blame the.
- [47:29]
Jillian Michaels
Victim, but there is such a thing as healthy shame. It's also. Yeah, when you commit a crime, when you do something unethical, when you hurt somebody, there's a healthy shame to that. Don't do that. That's the wrong thing to do. That's a shitty thing to do. My mom's a psychoanalyst, and we've actually had long talks about what healthy shame looks like and what it's intended to do, do. And it's to help people evolve into becoming a better person. Or if somebody is tending towards sociopathy, quickly, quickly sweeping them back into line. But when people are calling out facts that we can. We can conclusively say are facts, you know, the earth is not flat.
- [48:12]
Dave Smith
Right.
- [48:14]
Jillian Michaels
Being obese is unhealthy. I mean, there's always robust amount of data to back this up. When you are attacking people for calling out facts and subsequently wanting to question the existing norm and orthodoxy, man, there's. There is some evil happening there across the board.
- [48:39]
Dave Smith
Yeah, 100%. It's like removing a necessary component of what keeps a society functioning, you know, is that there's, like, antisocial behavior or destructive behavior behavior, and then there's positive and social behavior. And it's like you want to encourage one and discourage the other. And anyway, it does. It does seem to me, and. And like, I will say, you know, to, like, I'm with you. When you said earlier that, like, you just couldn't have imagined that, like, even. Just, like, what we're seeing now. And. And again, to your point, I'm not saying anything's been done yet. Like, Bobby getting in there, Tulsa getting in there. This is just the beginning. And now we start. We start the back battle. Yeah, but it is. But even just to be where we are today and the way the pendulum has swung and how it's. Again, I don't think it's not. I don't think it's as simple as to say that. It's like, oh, the left lost and. And the pendulum swinging back. Right. It's like a whole realignment. And I am just very encouraged by it. I'm very encouraged. But that all of that stuff where you're talking about, like, the fat shaming and the COVID stuff. It just seems like in terms of the popular support, it almost feels like it went from an 8020 issue to an 8020 issue. The other direction, like just nobody's buying into it anymore. That I find very encouraging.
- [49:53]
Jillian Michaels
I totally agree with you. And it feels like the wizard of Oz when the wicked witch actually belts. It's like the sun comes out and everybody now, I do think it's, you know, page one of the book that has yet to be written. Britain, I think it's going to be trench warfare. And you're seeing it across the board. It's like everybody resist, just resist to resist. Oh my God, the sky is falling, you know, and, and you've got all the propaganda whipping up the people on the left and it's like everybody's hit larian and the world's gonna end and whatever. And they're, it's so crazy though, because what they're fighting for, I don't even think they realize. Like when you watched Bobby Kennedy's hearings and he's sitting there saying, we need to ask why are vaccine injuries happening? We need to ask like, why has autism gone from 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 36? And everyone is demonizing this guy and they're loving their politicians who take millions from big pharma. Like, I just, we've got a long way to go and I am exceptionally optimistic, but I wouldn't get complacent that, that's all I'm saying is it's going to be an uphill battle. And I do know not to talk out of turn, but to get Kennedy confirmed, concessions did have to be made. And I don't know how public any of that is or not, but it obviously goes without question that it's like you will bend a knee to a certain extent. We even saw some of that with Tulsi and the whole fisa.
- [51:30]
Dave Smith
Yeah.
- [51:31]
Jillian Michaels
Situation. It's like to get there, you will have to make some, you some, you'll have to give some stuff up along the way. So I, I, it's way better than where we were. But I, I know it's going to be an uphill battle and I think what I'm trying to do is encourage people to stay vigilant and to be patient.
- [51:51]
Dave Smith
Yeah. Yeah, well, I think that's perfectly, perfectly said and it's, it's unfortunate way, you know, I was talking about this during both Bobby and Tulsi's confirmation hearings where I was just kind of like listening. Guys, I know everyone wants them to just dunk on these senators. And I know, but everybody wants Bobby, when he asks him a question, to go like, please, you're the most corrupt human being in the world. What's wrong? I go, but he needs their votes.
- [52:13]
Jillian Michaels
Yeah.
- [52:13]
Dave Smith
So this process, actually, he, like, if, if I was in Bobby's ear right now, I'd be just kind of like, well, say what you got to say to get in there. You know what I mean? Let's just, let's get. Let's get confirmed. I mean, as it is, you know, they got confirmed by razor thin margins. And so it was like. There just wasn't. And again, again, there. There's a whole different battle to actually, like, the, the mechanism of government and entrenched interests and peeling those interests away. But a prerequisite to even getting to this point was having this giant cultural awakening. And, and now, you know, you see where it's like a necessary component to this is that Bobby and Tulsi and, and Trump for that matter, they got to know if they're going to war with the swamp that, like the masses, the American people have their back. And so, like, we. That's got to be known. And then also, I would, you know, agree with your. Your point about, like, complacence, but also patience, like, also understanding that, like, this thing was built up over many, many decades and it's not going to be solved in a day or a year or in four years. But look, we have the potential to actually see some positive change right now, which feels very new from my perspective.
- [53:27]
Jillian Michaels
Perspective, you're totally right. That's why when I was sitting with Cali, I had lost all hope just because it's so entrenched and these special interests are so powerful. And the reality is, you talk about it with military industrial complex, and you understand all of this regime change and I, I listen to you talk, I'm like, whoa, I learned so much from you.
- [53:52]
Dave Smith
Any.
- [53:52]
Jillian Michaels
It's as corrupt and as deep as that in, in my line of work. And if you even want to take it a step further, if we could put on our tin hats for a second and go down the rabbit hole. When you look at who owns the big ag companies, the controlling share, and then who owns the big food companies, controlling share, same for pharma, same for big insurance companies is. It's all the same companies. It's BlackRock, it's Vanguard, State street, and it's like. In other words, my point is that the reach is so great and the incentive is so powerful that it's going to be easy. It's definitely a David and Goliath story. So we will take each and every little win. And this is why try, you know, to take the. I hate to say this, but it is like, stay woke. Like, stay aware, stay vigilant. Don't. Don't allow yourself to be blacated because they give up. 1 out of 10,000 chemicals that have made it through a loophole in the FDA. Everyone's like, look at this Red 40 winner. Like, Yay. I'm thinking, are you kidding? Like, that is a snowflake on the tip of an iceberg and we don't have any idea how big that is under the ocean. It's bad. It's as deep and scary as it can possibly get. It is absolutely by design. That is not conspiracy theory or hyperbole. And so again, I, I don't want to be a downer. I want to be. This is wonderful. And we're all waking up and we're all forcing change, but we need to stay in that headspace. That's all I'm saying is to stay very present and aware and not allow ourselves to be placated. Be vigilant and be supportive like you're talking about in every way you possibly can.
- [55:44]
Dave Smith
Yeah, listen, I could not agree more. Well, Jillian, I knew I was going to really enjoy this and I really did. I'd love to do it again and we could, you know, talk about how this, how this all unfolds and I'm sure there'll be lots more news coming out that we'll enjoy talking about. Tell people if people are interested in learning more about you or following your stuff, where, where can they find you?
- [56:04]
Jillian Michaels
Let's go to Jillian Michaels dot com. All my, all the different branches of what I do lives there.
- [56:09]
Dave Smith
Okay. Awesome. Jillian, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it.
- [56:12]
Jillian Michaels
I really appreciate it. And hopefully I can turn the table on you soon.
- [56:17]
Dave Smith
Absolutely. Anytime. Let me know.
- [56:19]
Jillian Michaels
I said hello and goodbye and thank you.
- [56:21]
Dave Smith
I will, I will make sure to do that. Okay, thanks everybody for listening. Catch you tomorrow with a brand new episode.
- [56:27]
Jillian Michaels
P.E.
- [56:41]
C
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- [57:04]
Jillian Michaels
Job.
- [57:05]
C
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