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- [00:00]
A
Foreign what's up? What's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I am Dave Smith. He is Robbie the Fire Bernstein. How you feeling today? Out on your living a nice porch life. This is Rob. He's just always on a porch where he's doing shows.
- [00:23]
B
This is me training at home for Arizona this Sunday. The next weekend I've got Long Island, Omaha, Nebraska, Kansas City. Then I think I got a weekend with you and then I'm out west. So go to portstore.com and comic Dave Smith for all the Comic Dave Smith dates.
- [00:39]
A
Yes, that's right. We. And we got a bunch of dates coming up. So I know we're in Dallas, Fort Worth, Detroit, Tampa, Poughkeepsie, Got a bunch of stuff coming up for the rest of the year. Comic Dave Smith.com for all of those ticket links. All right, let's get into some stuff today. And obviously we're gonna, we're gonna start this by continuing to talk about the, the wake, the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination. I am, honestly, I, I personally, just to check in with me, I, I'm doing much better than I was a few days ago as I've been, you know, pretty open with you guys. I've been pretty rattled over this situation. I gotta say. I am really, I'm thrilled beyond words by the fact that, like, at least so far there hasn't been like, violence and retaliation that's. That's kicked off. Because I really was concerned about that. I mean, for, like that, that to me was like the major thing when it first happened. I mean, obviously, like, the first is like the human level is a guy I knew and the kind of tragedy for his family. But pretty immediately after that you're like, oh, man, like, he was beloved by so many millions of people and they're going to be so angry and this is just a recipe for disaster. And that at least so far hasn't happened. And I'm really grateful to all of, all of the public figures who have kind of been urging calm through this whole thing. And, and, and there's been a lot of that and that I think that is really important. And so, man, at least thank God for that. In a sea of kind of a tragic event, at least there is the silver lining that they're the. You know, I think in, in some way you could say, like the Christianity in Charlie's message may have, have calmed that situation down. And just, I'm really glad to see that because, man, that, that could have gone in such A bad direction. Again, not to say things still can't happen, but at least through sex several days or what has it been now, a week or something. We haven't seen anything like that. So that's pretty great. We'll just start by saying that, okay, I got to address this because I was not exactly aware, but I did see, like, a few people on Twitter were telling me to go check the comment section of our episode from yesterday.
- [03:13]
B
They tell us how wise we are that you should run for president, but not on the last episode.
- [03:17]
A
It's there. We got a mutant on our hands on the YouTube comments section over the last episode. And look, I don't know. I don't know what to say. I mean, I think when I'm saying there's, I'm sitting here saying, look, I don't see any evidence to believe that this is a, an Israeli conspiracy, that Israel was involved in Charlie Kirk's assassination. And in response, overwhelmingly, I just saw people posting. Well, they, they post the chat. Well, that was one. That was one assumption. But then a bunch of people were just, like, going, like, did he even read the Max Blumenthal article? And I'm like, yeah, like, did you catch the line in it where he said, there's no evidence that Israel was involved in the assassination? Like, I, Yeah, I think that was a very relevant part where it backed up my claim. Look, anyway, I'll just say this. I'm not. Very rarely, I don't think ever quite like this one have I seen, like, a mutiny within my show's comment section. So I, Look, I want to, like, pay attention to that. And if my audience is not happy with what I was saying on the, the last episode, okay. At the same time, I'm not gonna be the guy who stopped saying what I think is true because I think it might anger my own audience. And I would hope that you would appreciate that about me. I, I, I did not get a phone call. I have not been threatened. There seems to be a lot of speculation of that. I promise you, on every faith that you've ever had in me telling you the truth, I have not gotten any phone calls or been threatened. By the way. I've gotten some phone calls before in my day where I think I kind of got the phone call, but not here, and certainly not in this situation. Not relevant to this. That's a topic for another day. But what a lot of people are picking up on, I guess, is they're going just so many people speculating about this, but they're like, look at Dave. You can see he's rattled. Like, clearly he's scared to say this. Clearly they've gotten to him. Guys, I assure you, a guy I know just got publicly executed. Yes, I'm a little rattled by that situation. My, that's the extent of it. And I really say this only because, as I've always said to you guys, my job is to tell the truth. And if I see people in my own comment section going, oh, I'm thinking that this is what's going on here or this is what's going on, and I, being me having the advantage, know for a fact that that is not true. I'm not, I'm going to try to steer you away from that because I just don't think that's right. Now, that being said, I don't really know what else we can say here other than in terms of the Israel done it. If you just want to believe that, fine. Look, what am I in the business of protecting Israel's image or something here? Like, and all the people speculating, oh, maybe Dave's not going to go hard at Israel anymore. It's like, give that one a couple weeks. Give that theory a couple weeks and come back to me and see if I'm softening my rhetoric or message about Israel at all. Spoiler alert. No plans to do that.
- [06:26]
B
I just want to say if, if someone has the talk and I'm not included, I'm going to be offended. I'd like to think that my contribution is enough on this show to be threatened.
- [06:34]
A
But you would be included in the talk. That's all you really want, is you want to be like you figure.
- [06:38]
B
Like, I'd like to think I've made enough of an impact that I might think that's fair.
- [06:42]
A
I think you should be cc'd on the email for sure, if nothing else. But that's. Look, but I did have a thought.
- [06:49]
B
Reading the comments because I am, I do waste too much time reading our show comments. And, you know, even on the attempt on Donald Trump's life a couple months later, I was speculating was that Israel that made that attempt because it was very odd how quickly Israel Trump seemed to embrace Netanyahu afterwards and how pro Israel the administration has been. So I did kind of a thought where, like, I was like, I kind of done the same thing with no evidence of speculating who might have had an incentive there. I think in this case, though, it's very reasonable two days after it happened when people are saying it was definitively Israel without any Evidence to be like, well, what is the evidence of that charge? And most of what I've heard thus far is, well, it was reported that he had a. That firstly, Netanyahu wanted to give him, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars or $100 million. He turned it down. There's no, like, you know, for the same people who are demanding evidence from other people, where do you have direct evidence of the fact that that. Sit down. Ever happened in terms of an Ackman meeting? I mean, how aggressive are donors usually about topics? I'm sure we're going to get into that. But then.
- [07:59]
A
Well, yeah, we'll get into all this. Yeah.
- [08:00]
B
The claim that, that Charlie was certainly changing his perspective. It's possible. And there might even be some clips to showcase that. I think you're going to be able to speak to that more. But on the last one, which is that he feared for his life. I rewatched the Tim Dillon thing and it's one claim secondhand from the Gray Zone guy of something he heard from Infowars.
- [08:22]
A
No, it's. It's the Harrison Smith, I believe his name is from Infowars. He made that public. So that's not even just Max Blumenthal saying that, like he tweeted that. But it's one. It's one guy at Infowars.
- [08:31]
B
Yeah. How definitive proof is it that someone at Infowars makes a claim about a conversation that they weren't at? I don't know. That's not. That's how he ends all proof with.
- [08:40]
A
All of these things, man, you just have to be. You have to be skeptical and you have to be like, discerning if you really want to get to the bottom of it. But I will say, look to the, the audience who's upset about this, look, you find me some evidence, I will happily take a look at it. Just as of right now, I'm seeing. I'm seeing nothing. But that being said, we could almost even like, agree to disagree on this. You've made up your mind. It's Israel. Okay. You decided that. That I'm never going to be the guy. And look, my. Just think about it like this, Rob. This is the thing that gets like, to me, that is a. A bit, I don't know, strange. But so of the two people, specifically the two people who I called out, which were Ian Carroll and Max Blumenthal. So I'm, I'm sitting here saying there's no evidence for this. People are sending me Max Blumenthal's article. In the article, he Himself says, we have no evidence for this. Okay, so that's one. But number two, Ian Carroll, which I also just saw this after we recorded yesterday. I hadn't, I thought he just didn't respond. But then someone sent me the clip where Ian Carroll, in response to what I said, said, yeah, Dave's right, I got a little out ahead of my skis, a little over my skis there. And like, he probably had a more level headed response than me. I shouldn't have said, like, knew this with certainty. So both the people there are agreeing with me. Like, even your guys who you're pointing me to are still saying the same thing I've said. By the way, Candace Owens, we're going to get into that too. She's also saying, like, I have no, like, you know what I mean, like evidence that Israel did this. But there is. So let's talk about this because there's, here's something and I think maybe like the people who disagree with me on this, we're going to have to agree to disagree. For now. I am not at all telling you to believe the government's narrative. In fact, I believe I said on the show yesterday that the one thing we can count on with certainty is that the government will be shady and dishonest. And clearly already everyone's attempting to manipulate the situation toward their own ends. But if you want to already agree that, fine. I'm saying my position on this is I see no evidence that Israel assassinated Charlie Kirk. I'm open to it if anyone produces any. I don't trust the government. There are some things in the official story at this point that I would say are not quite adding up. And we'll see what more information we can get. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Monetary Metals, an amazing company run by great people who are really revolutionizing the precious metal space. If you own gold, you've probably been happy to see prices hitting all time highs. But your gold can do more than just sit there waiting for the price to go up. It can generate passive income for you. With monetary metals, you can, you can earn 5% interest on your gold and silver paid in more ounces of metal. And accredited investors can even achieve double digit returns in their bond offerings. All interest payments are made in ounces of gold and silver stored in your account free of charge. Whether your metal is gathering dust at home or costing you annual storage fees, it's time to stop paying to own gold and start getting paid to own it and put it to work with monetary metals. Check them out at monetary-metals.com to learn more about how you can start growing your wealth in ounces today. That's monetary-metals.com. all right, let's get back into the show. However, let's talk a little bit about Candace Owens episode because Candace Owens. So she. She went live last.
- [12:10]
B
Say one other thing about.
- [12:11]
A
Yeah, yeah, sure, go ahead.
- [12:12]
B
Firstly, everything is circumstantial evidence of that Israel might have had a motive to do it. There is no circumstantial evidence of the actual crime of killing Charlie by Israel. Secondly, listen, the audience is large and mighty and we're lucky to have them here. So I'm not like, I can't call the collective audience wrong or particularly in the comments for being wrong, but I guess I have a different opinion on this. Where sometimes on the show where you state, I'm not there yet. I'm agnostic on this. I haven't seen enough evidence of this to just say, I'd like to see a little bit more before that claim. And then the audience hops on with like a how dare you not have a firm perspective yet? It's like, if you're being honest about what you've read or seen or where your perspective is, it's crazy to be like, how come you don't have more certainty on something.
- [13:00]
A
Yeah, I mean, I. Look, I agree with you, but I will say there is. So Candace's. Candace does this episode last night. And first off, it was, it was. It was incredible, I thought. And it was. First of all, it was, it was difficult to watch, partially just because, like, I love Candace and she is so clearly, like, you know, really grieving for, like, someone who is like a brother to her. Like, she's in pain over having lost someone so close to her. And that kind of came through. And then anyway, there's. The numbers were insane, so I've never seen anything like it before. I. On. I don't know that I've ever seen on YouTube where she was. So I was watching it. I don't know what time it was like, last yesterday evening, but so I'm like, it was live streaming, so I was watching it, but I was like, a little behind the live stream. And then I was doing a few things, like, I think I was putting one of the kids to bed and then, like, making a sandwich or whatever. So I'm like doing other things. And then I'd come back to it. So I was watching it live. But, like, behind the Live stream. And then when I got back to it, it wasn't a live stream anymore. You know what I'm saying? Like, the live stream had ended. And I was watching the V. And so when I. I just remember when I was on, I think it was 300,000 people were watching live when I was on the live stream. And then when I came back to it, I mean, the live stream had just ended and it was like over a million. Like, it was like. It was. I think it's up to like 5 million last I checked or something like that. It was just breaking the goddamn Internet. I mean, it's like, huge, huge show. And. And there was something so compelling about it. It was like, oh, hearing from Charlie Kirk's dear friend, who was the one who broke off from the Daily Wire, and all of that is just very interesting. And at. So she is talking about. Which is a whole different almost element of. I don't know of a theory here where, like, if you narrow this down a little bit, right? Like I am saying, I don't see any evidence pointing in the direction that Israel did this. However, a separate question, which you can connect to that if you want to. I just want to be clear that I'm not connecting to that because I don't see a reason to or a clear piece of evidence to. But there are the claims being made. Benjamin Netanyahu himself trying to milk Charlie Kirk's death. And now there are other claims being made about what the state. What Charlie Kirk's state of mind was about Israel during that time. And that in itself is an interesting question. And Candace in this episode, she did at one point call on me and Tucker Carlson to. To come forward with whatever information we have. She was saying we were both at this last event. So, like, what was it like? What was his state of mind? What were the things being said? And so I thought that was kind of interesting. And I'm thinking. And so I. I thought maybe the best I could do here as a response to the audience being upset about the last episode is like, I'll just come clean with everything I know, including, like, some fucking text messages between me and. And Charlie Kirk, which I figured there were. There were a couple that I thought were kind of relative. So after listening to the Candace episode, I thought about it and I was like, almost like, trying to replay in my mind, like, what, you know, like, what exactly was said when we were hanging out in that green room, because we did hang out for quite a bit before the debate. And the truth is there was Nothing, nothing I could say tangibly about that encounter. Like, demonstrated that Charlie was changing his mind about Israel or something like that. He was very friendly the entire time. I was me. And so I was, you know, like, I. At first. What happened was first I went in there and it was just me and Charlie and his. His guy. I'm blanking on his name right now. I apologize, but he's the guy who's like, on his podcast, so it was them too. And then Josh Hammer came in and it was like all of us for a little bit. And then Charlie's buddy left and it was just me, Charlie and Josh for a little bit. And so at the beginning, before Josh Hammer came in, we did talk about Israel a little bit. And I started. I was needling Charlie, you know, like, I tend to do in those situations. Like, you know, because he was already talking about, you know, we started talking about issues right away. He was saying, like. But everything he was saying was kind of like what you would think Charlie Kirk would be saying in that situation. He was saying things like, he goes, look, I'm with you. I'm against the Forever wars and I can't stand the McCain's and the Cheney's and all those guys. And. And then I was going, yeah, Charlie, but like, you know, right. Like, like I was just like, Charlie was a well read guy enough that I would just be like, but you already know who the neocons are married at the hip to, right? Like, what was that all about? Or don't you know that they're basically just the American LUD party? Like, you know that, right? And it was Charlie Kirk. He would just kind of disarm you with his kindness. Like, he would kind of laugh and then he'd kind, like, he'd look around with a big smile and he'd go, I get your point, I get your point. And then he'd pivot to like, he'd be like, you know, I just really, like, as a Christian, I had really spiritual experiences when I went to Israel and stood in the exact place where Jesus performed miracles and all this. And I really value the holy sites being protected and the bond between, you know, the Jewish people. Like, Jesus was a Jew. And. But. And like all the. And I was like, okay, I get all of that. But like, also, we could do that without genociding our neighbors, right? Probably. And. And like. And like, he'd kind of laugh. And now, if I'm being completely honest, I got the impression that Charlie really kind of knew I was right. That's if I'm being completely honest, that's how I felt. But I got nothing tangible I could point to to justify that feeling. All I could tell you is that in the room I kind of felt like he knows I got a really good point here, but he's kind of not in a position where he can admit it. That's how I felt. But that is purely just a vibe I got. There was nothing he said that actually backed up that that was his feeling. And then when Josh Hammer came in, I don't even remember, I remember at one point we, he was like interested in talking to me about like, how I. He was like, how I'm good on borders and abortion and most libertarians are bad on that. And then we got into a whole conversation about how libertarian first principles lead you to not being for open borders and just like other stuff that wasn't that topic. It was kind of like a thing where Charlie had been saying. And I think I talked about this the week we, we did a podcast with like my thoughts on the event right after the event. But I, you know, once Josh Hammer came in the room, Charlie had been stressing the whole time how he really wanted a good faith exchange of ideas and he didn't want this to devolve into name calling or be anything. And that he really wanted to have a good, you know, honest exchange between me and Josh. And so we, I said yes, and Josh said the same thing. Josh said absolutely yes. And so then we all, just, the three of us had a very pleasant conversation and we ended up talking about other topics. And I think part of that was just like to keep it light and friendly in the green room. Like we're about to go out there and debate this topic. So let's just talk about immigration where we all agree for a little bit before we go out there. Then as I pointed out before, Josh Hammer goes out and by the end of his closing, by the end of his opening statement, he said he was disgusted to be on the stage with me. And I had pointed out like, what a snake behavior that was because literally we had just had like a 40 minute pleasant conversation, like we were all being friends. And then he got out there and said he was disgusted to be in my presence or whatever. Anyway, then I wiped the floor with Josh Hammer and that's how the, the thing ended. So I didn't really have anything. You know, when Candace was like, give, you know, come forward with whatever information you have, I was just, as I was thinking about it, I was like, I Don't really have anything there. But then I did think to myself, I was like, oh, you know, like, me and Charlie Kirk have texted a fair amount of times over the years. Like, let me go back and just see what we said. Exactly. Because I remember he had gone out of his way to, like, text nice stuff. And I said this publicly before, too, that that was our relationship, essentially, that he. He just started reaching out to me. I had done his podcast a time or two, I believe, and he would just text me, like, nice things before, and then he invited me to that. That Turning Point event. So I will say, first of all, very weird feeling going back through the text messages of someone when they just died. Just. There's something about that that's kind of surreal and not a nice feeling. But I did that. And then I did find a couple text messages that I think are kind of relevant to this part of the conversation. I just want to make it clear, I'm not stoking anything that says Israel did it, but just if we're having the conversation about where was Charlie's state of mind and how did he feel about Israel, these are, I think, kind of relevant. And let me just start by saying this, because I was a little torn about whether or not I should. I should read these. I've never done that before. I've never read private text messages or released, you know, like when people do that sometimes and they're arguing with someone, like, they'll really. Screenshots of dms or something like that. I never have done that in my life. Or I don't think so. And I don't like that. I think like that. You know, like, things that are said privately should stay private. But just like in this case. In this case, it does seem like this is like. I don't know, it's like the biggest political assassination of our lifetimes. And this is a huge debate over where his state of mind was. And I do think that a lot of the Zionists are kind of lying when they act like, no, Charlie was just the biggest. Like, he was just Ben Shapiro and nothing else was going on in his head that doesn't seem to be quite right. Now, I've talked about this quite a bit that I thought the big dynamic going on here was that he still needed these kids, he still needed his young activists, and they were abandoning Israel. But, you know, I actually forgot about exactly what he said in a couple of these things. So I'll read them just to be fully transparent. You guys can make of it what you Will, I think I already know what a lot of you are going to make of it, but this is real and the, this is, this is what was said to me. So here, let me. Because I took a couple screenshots of these, but let me just actually read up through them because these are the ones that I thought were relevant. I mean, there's, there's some other texts here where it's just, you know, I mean, he, he texted me saying he really loved my testimony on Tucker Carlson about praying to God in the hospital and my, my daughter was born and stuff, but it just doesn't seem as relevant. But this, these two texts I thought were pretty relevant. So this one is from Sunday, April 13th at 8:01pm he texts me. Listen to you on Rogan. This is like a day or two after the Douglas Murray debate. So I debated Douglas Murray on the Joe Rogan Experience. And it was a big show at the time. It was a big show. I guess Candace Owens changed the definition of big show at this point. In hindsight, a teeny little show. But. So this is, this was Charlie Kirk, unprompted, texted me about the Douglas Murray debate. Now just like kind of keeping in mind, and I want, I'll fully disclaim here, Charlie Kirk's a really nice guy. You could chalk a lot of this up to him being nice. But the Douglas Murray debate with me, you know, like, I'm not overstated. This was like a big thing. This may have been the biggest high profile debate on Israel. And this, this is what Charlie Kirk wrote to me. Sunday, April 13th at 8:01pm Listen to you on Rogan. You did well. Despite me being more on the pro Israel side. Very little. I disagree with what you said. One point when Douglas was going on about you using arguments from authority. It's a ridiculous claim. You were using original source quotes to prove their motives, all capital and motives, not their analysis of geopolitics, et. Two totally different things. You were right on that point, 100%. Keep up the good work. Hope to cross paths at some point soon. I'm sorry. Hope to cross paths at some point. And I wrote back, thanks, Charlie, I really appreciate that. Now again, I'm not saying anyone should make any more of this than there is there. But like, this is Charlie Kirk. He told me privately that there was very little that he disagreed with. And if you go listen to what I said on that show, I was going pretty hard. And so I will say, like, you know, Kanda's calling on me to like release what I know that is one, and I think that's not completely insignificant. Like, I think that does at least demonstrate that this wasn't Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro was not sending me this text message. Let's just say that, you know, I mean, I'm. I don't want anyone to make too much of this. I'm just kind of putting the information out there, I guess We've already established you're going to make of it what you will. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Crowd Health, an amazing company that I've been telling you about for many years. A great alternative to the broken health insurance system. If you could get health care for under $100 a month, would you want that? Would you be interested? Let me tell you about what Crowd Health has just introduced. You can finally rid yourself of the bureaucracy of the health care system and take agency over your own health because Crowd Health has just introduced the Black Swan membership. It's the health care alternative for people who want autonomy over their care, their costs, and their lifestyle. They just need a little help with the Black Swan events that happen in life. Well, now for just 90amonth, you get access to a team of health bill negotiators, lowcost prescriptions and lab testing tools, and a database of lowcost, high quality doctors vetted by Crowd Health. You stay in control without insurance in their networks dictating your care. And what if something major happens? You pay the first $15,000 and then the crowd steps in to help fund the rest. It feels like the options that we used to have before Obamacare messed everything up. And now if you use the promo code POTP, it's only $80 for the first three months. Just go to JoinCrowdHealth.com and use the promo code POTP. Crowd health is not insurance. Opt out. Take your power back. This is how we win. All right, let's get back into the show. Here's the other one that I thought was, was kind of worth what. So he was, he sent me like a tweet that he had posted, which was back about here. So he, he, this is, this is public, right? So you can see this. But he sent it to me. So he, quote, tweeted me a post that I had about the murder of those two Israeli embassy staff members. If you remember that, Rob, you remember that story they got murdered in, in D.C. or something like that. And I, I just had a post about, like, you know, how wrong political violence is and how Anyone who thinks you're helping the poor Palestinians by murdering some embassy workers, you're not. And then Charlie had a long quote tweet to that which this is public if you, you want to find it. It starts with their names, which were Sarah Milgram and Euron Lechinsky. And he says they were two beautiful young people with their whole lives ahead of them. Talks about was senseless and evil and horrifying. It's a little bizarre to read that in the context of today, but. But then he had a, a whole section of the post where he said, I must push back against one thing. All over X I see claims that some people have, quote, blood on their hands. By the way, this is just a really interesting tweet. I haven't read this till right now. I, I didn't click on it. It was. But he sent me it in our text thread. But this is Charlie Kirk, by the way, talking about this stuff. Pretty relevant to today. He said, I must push back against one thing. All over X I see claims that some people have, quote, blood on their hands simply because they've made tweets attacking Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israel government, or the war in Gaza. No. And then he goes off on a whole thing. You can look up the tweet if you want to say it, but he's, he's making the point that it was horrible what happened to them, but it's also messed up to like blame anybody who was criticizing Israel for now being responsible for them doing this. So he sent me that tweet and I responded back as he sent me. He sent me this at noon on May 22, and I responded back at 12:01. I said, I was literally reading it as you texted. And I said, thank you. I really appreciate that. We need cooler heads to prevail here. It's a very dangerous situation. And he said, he said totally. And then he said we should do a podcast in person and have a fun, light hearted, contrasting conversation on Israel. I bet we actually agree on most of it. Truly, I will. And then he said, I will not scold you for not being. So he made a never being joke. And then I said, I'm going to need that in writing. And then he said, screenshot it. And. Okay, I didn't actually plan on screenshotting that or reading that aloud ever at any point. So look, that's all I have. That's all that I actually know about any of this. The, the truth is that I. All of the kind of stuff that Candace is talking about all of this coming to a head. The pressure being put on Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk doing that interview with Megyn Kelly, talking about the pressure. All this stuff about, like, the. The meeting with Ackman and. And all these guys. This all happens after that. And I just never. I never talked to Charlie again, which I really, you know, regret in hindsight, but that happens a lot when we lose people. But I just hadn't. I hadn't talked to him. It hasn't been that long. This was only, you know, in the last couple of months, so I don't. I can't speak to any of that, But I did feel like it was worth pointing that out. That. Again, this doesn't prove anything at all. It is. Charlie was a really nice guy. I know this from just having met him, you know, the one time in person and then other times, like over the computer. And so maybe he was just trying to be nice and extended olive branch and kind of keep, like, a dialogue going there. I mean, this is Charlie Kirk, and that is kind of what he was all about, is keeping dialogue going. And even when he was inviting me on his podcast, which, okay, so, by the way, the story there is. That never ended up happening. But so then essentially what happened was he goes, why don't you come on my podcast? The invite I just read you. I was like, absolutely, let's do it. Then he was like, oh, do you want to do a debate at this big event that we're having coming up here? And then I was like, okay, cool, so we'll do that. And then he was like, okay, we'll do. We'll kill two birds with one stone, and we'll do the debate, and me and you will do a podcast. That was the original plan. And then, like, I couldn't come in till the last day of the conference. We were out in Denver that weekend, and I had to fly from Denver straight down there, and there wasn't enough time to do both, I guess, or something like that. So, like, the podcast didn't end up happening. But so. But so even when he was inviting me on that podcast, he's saying, like, we disagree. You know what I mean? But he's also going, I think you'd be surprised by how much we agree. And on the Douglas Murray podcast, he's saying, I think I, you know, I actually agreed with much of what you had to say. So anyway, that's my response to Candace. That's all I got. I don't have any other useful information that's relevant to here, but at Least the little bit I have, I think does, it does indicate that, like, yeah, there was certainly Charlie was at the very least, at least what he's saying here is that he was listening to, obviously he was listening to what I had to say. Obviously he had been listening to what Candace had to say, obviously had been listening to what Tucker had to say. And he probably was feeling like, you know, a lot of that does make sense. That doesn't mean he agrees with it fully, but I would offer that to say there, I do think there is some evidence that Charlie was struggling with this topic, thinking about this topic, finding some common ground with the very harsh critics of Israel, and was at the very least, like, it's not the case that this guy was just a pure, loyal supporter who wasn't questioning the thing at all. I will say that much. Any, any thoughts on any of this, Rob?
- [34:13]
B
So Israel did do it.
- [34:14]
A
That's what I just learned. There you go.
- [34:18]
B
After all these assassination attempts that country's already made, Dave Smith confirms.
- [34:23]
A
Listen, I can't confirm it. They already got to me. Listen, dude, I promise you guys, by the way, if, if I'm ever, like, threatened or spooked or something like that, I won't like, lie to you. Maybe I won't answer the question, but I won't just lie to you. Like, no, I have not gotten the call, I have not been threatened, and no, I'm not, I don't fear for my safety really. I mean, any more than just, you know, the way that anyone else would fear for myself. Like, you're like, ah, Charlie Kirk got taken out. I hope more people don't. I don't know. I, I, I'm in a much more controlled environment. I don't really do big outdoor events like that, which are less controlled. But no, I'm not like, I, I, I, I'm not like, worried to say what the truth is here. I'm just trying to not, not rush to judgment and trying to get it right. But anyway, I did think, you know, as Candace asked about that, I was like, I sent her those screenshots too, because I was just kind of like, well, look, in the effort to like, let's get to the bottom of all of this here. I'm happy to, you know, I won't voluntarily give over information to the government, but I'll voluntarily give it over to camp zones anytime. So I was like, here, look, I don't, you know, I don't think, you know, Charlie was much closer with Candace than he was with me. So I don't think he was saying anything to me that, like, he didn't trust her with. And I also did feel like, hey, this is somewhat relevant. It's not like he was telling me stuff about, like, his marriage or something. And I'm like, revealing personal things. It's like. This is the topic of conversation now is where was this guy here? I have. Not, like a huge smoking gun or anything like that, but, like, I have a little bit of evidence of what his state of mind was. So I felt like it was the right move to share that.
- [36:05]
B
I listened to quite a bit of the Candace thing. And I will say I'd like to see. I'm not saying any of it's wrong. I want to make that clear. I'm not saying any of it's wrong. I'd like to see a little bit more receipts on the accusations such as that Ackman threatened or that Nintendo.
- [36:20]
A
Did you see? Ackman responded.
- [36:23]
B
I think he responded that he had receipts and he was going to show them, but. And he hasn't done so yet.
- [36:28]
A
Yeah, but even. Even just that I thought was kind of great in a way. Like, I just think it's great that Candace got him on the record because now it's kind of like, okay, yeah, get him talking. Get him talking more and more. Because now let's see, like, what. You know what I mean? Like, let's try to put together the story here. Like, I don't know exactly what I'll say this. Right. And I. Look, I kind of. I think I. I was. I think I talked all about this in our episode. Anyone can go back if you want to. We did, I think, an entire episode on my experience at that Turning Point debate and what it was like now. At the time, we were just talking about how the kids were moved in such a direction and what the debate was like and stuff. But I'll just say this because I saw. So Josh Hammer now, who happens to be the guy who was there for part of the time when. The only time I ever met Charlie Kirk face to face. So. So now I debated Josh Hammer at Princeton University. What was that last year, I think. Or was it earlier this year?
- [37:29]
B
I can't remember the winter because I was going to go and then there was a crazy Snowstorm.
- [37:32]
A
It was 100% during the winter because I left into a crazy snowstorm. And my Uber kept canceling on me. And I really had a moment. Yeah, it sucked. But anyway, Yes, I finally got in the car. Anyway. Yes, it was definitely in the Winter. Okay, so. But. So I debated Josh Hammer at Princeton, smoked him, and. But it was a totally, like a civil debate. I mean, he did that one thing where he tried to be like, who do you trust Osama bin Laden more than Benjamin Netanyahu or something. But, like, aside from that, it was just a civil debate where we just calmly debated the issues, which I actually. It actually is what I prefer in these debates, despite how many shit shows I've been a part of. I actually, like when we could just talk about. Just argue the issues in, like, an academic, you know, setting. And anyway, so that was, you know, it went great for me, and I was very happy with it, but I. I left that thinking. Josh was nothing but a good dude. And I left. And at the end of the. The debate, I went over to him and I said something like. I was like, hey, man, we should, like, let's do a podcast together sometime about some stuff we agree on, like immigration or wokeism or something like that. And he went, yeah, absolutely. And we left kind of on cordial, nice terms. Then Josh was actually, so what? Charlie was. At first he said, we'll do the podcast. Then he was like, why don't you come do a debate? Then he went, he. He wanted me to debate. What's his name? Oh, man, I'm blinking on his name. He was the UFC guy who was in the military. Tim Kennedy. He wanted me to debate Tim Kennedy. And I. I accepted that. I went, okay. And I was. I'm an MMA fan, so I was always, like, a fan of Tim Kennedy. So I was like, okay, I'll. I'll debate Tim Kennedy. I think that could be a good one. And then Tim couldn't do it for, like, scheduling reasons or something like that. And he goes, what do you think about Josh Hammer? And I initially said no to Charlie on that because in my mind, I was like, well, I don't know. I already debated that guy. Like, I already debated that guy. And that's been dealt with. Like, give me a new, you know, person to. Because it's. It's hard to, like, kind of get excited about just doing the same thing that all you already did. And then he goes, charlie Kirk was like, yeah, dude, but this is going to be in front of the Turning Point audience at our biggest event of the year, and this is going to just be much bigger numbers, and a lot. A lot of other people will see this. And then when he said that, I was like, yeah, you know what? You're right. I guess, like that. Yeah, it makes Sense. And these are really the people I want to talk to are like the young people. So that's, you know, that. So that I was just like, okay, yeah, we'll come do this. And that's how that. So anyway, so. So I was like, whatever. I also then he started stressing. He put us, all three of us on a text message and he just started stressing, like, if you could read that text message. The entire thread was just him going, like, okay, guys, here are the topics I want to. And I was like, sure, sounds good. And then he goes, I really want this to be a good faith thing. And like, above board and no insults. And then Josh went, absolutely. That's. That's what I want to. And then I just said with certainty because we had already had such a good faith debate the first time. I went, dude, you don't got to worry about that with me and Josh. Everything will be cool, blah, blah, blah. And then we just hung out in the green room. Like, I said he was the nicest guy the whole time. We're like, okay, we're going to do it. We're going to have a friendly debate. And his opening statement before I've spoken was, I'm disgusted to be on stage with. Stage with David reading my text message. Like, he pulls out this thing. And so anyway, all I'm saying is that I just went, oh, that dude's a snake. He's a really dishonest fucking person who's very comfortable lying. And I just couldn't imagine. I couldn't. I could imagine being pissed off at someone, but I couldn't imagine sitting there with someone being nothing but polite and cordial and joking around, talking about family, talking about politics, talking about all this stuff, and then getting on stage and going like, I'm disgusted to be in this man's present. Like, there's something that's very dishonest and womanly about that. And so when it comes out that Josh Hammer was also at this. This meeting, I'll just say I don't trust him for that. He says that. He says about that. That's all. Now that, that. That debate was the one in the. The summer was the second debate. It. But, but anyway, so that's. That's all I'll say is that guy's a liar. So I don't trust his words there. Bill Ackman. I, you know, I'm not trusting what he says either. So the more you get him talking about it, the more like he's on the record saying this, you know, this is like why in a police investigation you, you know, they go, why don't you come downtown and answer some questions like before they've even got anything they want to get more. Because now if you say anything that's a lie, we can look into that. We can see what you're trying to cover up. So I thought it was great that she got him responding. Now look, what, what was really the deal there? I don't know. All right guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show which is Prolon, a plant based nutrition program featuring soups, snacks and beverages designed to nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state, triggering cellular rejuvenation and renewal. This is really an incredible, an incredible system they have here. So like everybody, you guys have heard all about these fasting diets. 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The other thing that I will say which is I have seen confirmed by more sources now again, this is not the, the thing because it's important to remember all these things. The claim that, that Charlie believed Israel wanted was going to kill him is we're relying on one guy at infowars from that and like forgive me. All right, whatever the Internet comments you can all. Yes, I'm being, I got the call, I'm being taught but I'm going to need a little bit more than that. And sorry. And I know that everybody like has the view of Infowars that like Alex Jones was right about everything but he was actually wrong about a whole lot of things. And I'm sorry but when you work at an organization that is known for making wild claims that you cannot possibly back up. Up. Alex Jones literally made documentaries about how they're. They were going to start depopulating the Earth. Like the 25 years ago still hasn't happened. So I get, I guess it's coming, but I, that's okay. There's one source. But the idea that the, the idea that he turned down a big chunk of money from Netanyahu is not just one source. There are several people who are saying this is the case. That is an interesting wrinkle in the story. Again, I'm not arguing none of this proves that Israel did it, but it is interesting to establish. And look, not just because it, it's not just because of the fact that people are thinking about this conspiracy theory, although I do think. I don't. I think that's just going to happen no matter what any of us say, that's fine. But it's not just that. It's also that, you know, Charlie Kirk was a really important figure. There is something about when people die young. It just has an impact on all of us. You know, we all lionize people who die young. You know, the truth is that Martin Luther King and JFK were not nearly the perfect angels that our society makes them out to be. They were both deeply flawed human beings with deep personal failings. They weren't angels, but they did die young. And when you die young, you get lionized. And who you were as a, like, as a person, what your legacy is, what you're remembered as becomes very important. And that's part of the reason why you see Netanyahu trying to use this right away. Here's an image of Charlie Kirk with Israel. You associate all the feelings you have with Charlie Kirk with the Israeli flag. You know what I mean? Like, you people try to use that. And if there is this, like, discussion of what the man really was or what he really stood for, then, like, I think this stuff is important. It's important to know what, what really was going on and what, you know, I, when, when Candace says that she knows for a fact that Netanyahu is blatantly lying by omission when he read that letter that, that Charlie had written to him, I believe her on that. And I, I do believe that it's, I think it's unlikely that Charlie Kirk was expressing to me, having doubts or, or expressing to me, agreeing with much of what I'm saying, which, like, Jesus, I mean, I go pretty hard on this stuff. If you're agreeing with much of what I'm saying, then you're Having doubts about the pro Israel side. And it does seem to me to be like there's a strong case for that. Now Candace is talking about a meeting where she was not there. From what I understand, Bill Ackman is saying, no, it wasn't like that at all. This wasn't like a contentious thing. It wasn't an intervention. We discussed lots of issues. I do also, you know, the thing that makes. That lends a lot of credibility to what Candace was saying in my view here is that because this is, again, this is why I was urging people to like, wait, like, wait till we get more information because more of a picture starts to emerge. But the meeting that they're talking about takes place like a couple days before that Megyn Kelly interview. And when he goes and talks to Megyn Kelly, he is talking about how blown away he is by how high the temperature is on this thing and how much the pro Israel side is snapping back at him just for the crime of, as him and Megyn Kelly say, the crime of moderating a debate, hosting Tucker Carlson. Not even anything that I, you know what I mean? And it just jives with Candace's story a lot more than it jives with Bill Ackman's story. But I do wonder, like, what was that like? You know, I'm sure, I know, I know Josh and them were bitter about it afterward. I don't know why he agreed to do it. I, you know, and this is always. And I said this at the time too, or I definitely said this to you privately, Rob a bunch. But like, I also, like, I thought it was it. I did wonder at the time, like, why is Charlie Kirk setting me up to look so good here? You know, like, he booked me. It was the final event of his biggest, like, event of the year. And he ran a, a one on one debate and had me go against someone who I had already smoked, who I was kind of like guaranteed to do again. And like, it did seem like he was setting me up to succeed here. It. It's certainly like, all I'm saying is like, I don't think think at a Ben Shapiro event. There is no chance he ever would have booked the final thing to be a debate one on one between me and Josh Hammer. He would not have booked number one. He wouldn't have me at the event. He would never consider having me at the event. And if he was going to, he wouldn't set me up in a situation where I could end up looking good and winning the day. Charlie did do that. Charlie also is here, you know, talking when there was all of that hysteria going on, what was the tone of a meeting between a bunch of hardcore Zionist, you know what I mean, like hardcore Zionist activists and Charlie Kirk? I imagine it was pretty tense. And then we have Charlie going on an interview the next day talking about how tense all this was. And so, I don't know, I just tend to. So, okay, you don't have me convinced with this Israel done it theory yet, because I don't think you have a theory or any evidence. But if we're talking about the Charlie was going through an evolution on this topic theory that I think has. Has some real legs on it. Any thoughts on any of that, Rob?
- [50:52]
B
All sounds fine to me. The only thing that stands out, slightly contradictory is I did feel like when I watched the debate, he was interjecting fairly, but with clarifying questions that had much more of a trying to protect the Israel narrative kind of bent to them.
- [51:09]
A
It ok, it's either that or it's protecting himself, like going, hey, I'm not the one saying this, just to be clear, I'm not the one saying this here, but the guy I'm hosting over here is the one saying this. You know, again, none of the, nothing that I'm presenting here at all is conclusive at all. I'm just telling you all the information I have. But the other, the big question does become now, right as we, we alluded to this yesterday. And of course you have this Pam Bondi clip, which by the way, let's play that. The big question now is what? Well, of course, look, there's, there's several big questions, but perhaps the most important question is what actually does come of this? Who does, you know, while you have so many people competing over how to use this for their own political advantage, like, what actually does end up coming of this? And I, I will say that if, you know, like somebody, oh man, I can't remember who had thrown this out. I thought somebody I saw, like someone who I follow on Twitter, had proposed like a holiday, a federal holiday for Charlie Kirk. That would be like debate day where we have like an open discussion of ideas and we honor his legacy about like, you know, you know, the, the need for debate and conversation. And like, I was like, oh, yeah, I really like the idea of that. And other people are like, we should, because of Charlie Kirk, we should shut down hate speech. And I would just really caution against people going down that road, which, by the way, seems to be damn near the polar opposite of the first proposal, which Seemed like a much better way to honor Charlie Kirk. But let's play this clip, Rob, that you sent over, because I did think this was worth discussing. But here's Pam Bondi talking about, you know, hate speech, the anti. Semitism. What's been happening at college campuses around this country is disgusting. It's despicable. And we've been fighting that. We've been fighting these universities left and right, and we're not going to stop. There's free speech and then there's hate speech, and there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie in our society. Do you see? All right, let's pause it right there. Going after. After these. See, you guys can give me shit for not buying your goddamn conspiracy, but I'm sorry, I just fucking keep my eye on the ball and focus on the shit I can. And tell me I didn't fucking call that one. Rob. I literally said on the last episode that that's how they're going to try to use this. Just like with the immigration thing. Oh, what's the problem? What's the lesson from Charlie Kirk's death? Anti Semitism, Rob, what does that have to do with any of this? What? What does that have to do with any of this? Has anybody. I'm sorry, were there. Was there even an anti Semitic engraving on one of those shells? Rob? I heard stuff about gay and fascist, but I didn't hear anything about the Jews. Oh, there's Rob. Rob warned us that his. His camera might die.
- [54:30]
B
Swap the battery real quick. Hold on.
- [54:31]
A
Yeah, no, no, it's a problem. Rob is expressing his solidarity with Black Lives Matter for a brief moment, which is. Which is important.
- [54:40]
B
And I might end up on Pam Bondi's list.
- [54:44]
A
There you go. But isn't that something, right? Like, it's, it's like, oh, so that's what the takeaway from. From Charlie Kirk is, what they're going to try to use it as, right? We got to crack down. On what? On the pro Palestine left. I literally said it the other day. That's what they're going to go for. And, you know, I think people, like, should really think about this, right? The. A lot of us, probably even me, I think probably was. You know, I was probably a little. I don't know, I tried to be fair with the lefty protest movement, you know, that. That sprung up after October 7th. And, you know, there were times where I did feel like they were doing stupid things and, you know, having dumb messages and kind of pro Hamasi type of, you know, slogans. But the bottom line is that they were a real problem for the political establishment. And in the year of 2024, in an election year when, when the Democratic establishment needed their left wing shock troops, those left wing protesters were all too busy protesting the genocide. They even called the sitting president of their party genocide, Joe. And this was a huge part of why Donald Trump won, is a huge part of what drained enthusiasm from the Democratic ticket and what drained outrage about another Trump presidency. Because it's real hard to be outraged about Tony Hinchcliff making jokes when you were just protesting a genocide. It's just hard to make that one sound like it's more important. And, you know, they stood up and were not, you know, they, they stood up against the political machine and they took some lumps for that. You know, they, they got viciously demonized. People got kicked out of colleges, legal residents got deported. And now, of course, just watch it because this is what they always try to do now. The, the regime will try to take this energy from Charlie Kirk and, and re. Channel it into something that helps them advance their aims. And I think in this case, it's, it's trying to claim, right, that it's hate speech. It's, hey, Rob, you know how you feel about people celebrating Charlie Kirk getting murdered? Well, that's why we can't have hate speech, and that's why we gotta shut down this kid who just said, from the river to the sea. That's the game they're trying to play here, and we should all stand in opposition to that. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Hexclad. They are really leveling up your kitchen game. I have got a few pots and pans from Hexclad. Me and my wife love them. They're great. If any of you guys are out there trying to cook healthier and trying to level up your kitchen game, Hexclad has got you covered. It's time to leave behind the delivery fees and the scratched up pans you've been clinging to since college. You've probably heard of Hexclad. They've completely revolutionized pots and pans by combining the performance of stainless steel with the convenience and easy cleanup of non stick. But Hexclad's innovation doesn't stop there. Their Japanese Damascus steel knives are as sharp as they are tough. Perfect for leveling up your meal prep. Their sleek pepper mill lets you season like a pro with precision and style. Gordon Ramsay, one of the Toughest critics in the world loves Hexclad. He uses them both at home and in his Michelin star restaurants. Hexclad products also come with a lifetime warranty. So these are literally the last time you're ever going to have to get these kitchen essentials. And for a limited time, our listeners can get 10% off their order with our exclusive link. Just head to hexclad.comproble that's hexclad.comproble for 10% off your order. Bon appetit. Let's eat with Hexclad's revolutionary cookware. Hexclad.comProble for 10% off. All right, let's get back into the show.
- [58:38]
B
So for a tad of context, she did send out a tweet that somewhat walks us back and says hate speech means calls for actual violence. But JD Vance made a comment on hosting Charlie Kirk show about half we have to go after anyone who is, you know, advocating political violence. It was something along those lines. Stephen Miller made a bolder claim. Then of course, they asked Donald Trump and he interjected with Trump stupidity of I think we should be going after ABC News, cuz you guys are unfair to me. And that doesn't add a lot of context to how they're gonna define political violence or who they're gonna go after. But there does seem to be a bit of a drive to actually unroot these larger left wing corporations. And there's probably some government funds and probably some ways that would be noble to reduce them. But the clouding of waters between words and violence and then going after people for speech or labels such as domestic terrorism is definitely a scary territory.
- [59:42]
A
Yeah, you know, look, dude, we kind of talked about this a little bit on the last episode. We'll probably talk about this more in the future. And both of us were kind of like, you know, we gotta like kind of think about this and work out our own thoughts. But I, I will say that I very much, I really understand. So like, we made the point before where it's like, look, you're never gonna live in a world where there's no type of conduct that can't get you fired from your job. Right. Like, I, I don't know, like if you, if you are saying really, really wild things, oftentimes people won't want to work with people who say those. And like, okay, now that being said, I never want to see someone get their livelihood ruined. I'm always very squeamish about that. I do understand from like a right winger's Perspective where you said like, do you remember, Rob? There was, there was this one high profile case. It was like some lady during, I think it was in 2020, and she posted on her Facebook page all Lives Matter. And she got fired from her job. So she got. They ruined this woman for posting All Lives Matter. And so like, if you're a right winger and you just sit there and you're like, yo, we'll get ruined for that, but then somebody else can just like make a video about how gleeful they are that an actual human being got murdered who was like literally the guilty of the crime of saying, I'm a Christian, let's talk about it, and just gets murdered. And you could celebrate that. And so I unders. I do understand the people who are like, yo, this is crazy. Like, if they're gonna weaponize that against us, then we should call this person's job and get them fired. Whatever. Now I don't. I'm never going to be the one calling someone's job and getting them fired. But, you know, I, I do understand where some of those guys are coming for from, because the sheer hypocrisy of it is so outrageous. But what we should all be together in is that the government should be nowhere near that goddamn conversation. Because that is just so dangerous to have the government start deciding what is the thing you're not allowed to say, or you can face these repercussions. The term hate speech should never come out of a government employee's mouth, period. The term. Pam Bondi. Pam Bondi, Attorney General of the United States of America. The term you're allowed to use is incitement to violence. If you want to speak about a crime, then speak about a crime, but you don't speak about a made up category of speech that's hateful because you're allowed to hate things. Right? Like, this is so I just. We should never be going down the path of being like, let's hand it over to the government to prosecute speech crimes. I mean, you would think right wingers would have learned that much. The one final thing I will say, and this is something that I think just. Well, I certainly, I think this is part of the reason why so many conspiracies are, are going so wild. And. Well, look, even as I'm someone who's not maybe jumping on board with some of these conspiracies, I did say earlier, and I really do mean it, that we just know that the government is full of shit and that whatever story they give us will always be bullshit. But it is amazing how you see in a situation like this, that trust has just evaporated and nobody's going to believe what the goddamn government says about you. You just see it's too obvious. Everyone can just see, like, oh, even Pam Bondi here. You're already trying to use this for your own ends. You don't really care about getting to the bottom of this. And I have been really stunned at how poor a job Donald Trump has done. Like, you would think in this moment you'd need to really, like, convince the country that you're going to get to the bottom of this. And instead, I don't know, like, it seems. Did you see that There was like the thing where he was dancing at the game. There was the one point where they asked him about Charlie Kirk and then he just pivoted to how they're having the new rooms at the White House done. And you're like, dude, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like Donald Trump cares that much or appreciates the gravity of this situation nearly enough. Just my two cents on it. Final word to you, Rob, and then.
- [63:53]
B
We'Ll wrap up back Thursday subscriber episode. Go to partoftheprom.com and you can watch all the subscriber episodes.
- [64:01]
A
Hell yeah.
- [64:02]
B
Live. Is that when we're live?
- [64:04]
A
1:00Pm 1:00pm 1:00pm Thursday. Well, we got, I got another episode tomorrow, but then 1pm Thursday will. That's when you'll be. You'll be back 1pm all right. Thank you guys for listening. Catch you next time. Peace.
- [64:30]
C
Shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your business. Need a fast and secure way to take payments in person? We've got you covered. How about card readers you can rely on anywhere you sell.
- [64:42]
A
Thanks.
- [64:43]
C
Have a good one. Yep, that too. Want one place to manage all your online and in person sales? That's kind of our thing. Wherever you sell. Businesses that grow grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month trial@shopify.com Listen. Shopify.com Listen.