A (12:59)
Yeah, I mean, I. Look, I agree with you, but I will say there is. So Candace's. Candace does this episode last night. And first off, it was, it was. It was incredible, I thought. And it was. First of all, it was, it was difficult to watch, partially just because, like, I love Candace and she is so clearly, like, you know, really grieving for, like, someone who is like a brother to her. Like, she's in pain over having lost someone so close to her. And that kind of came through. And then anyway, there's. The numbers were insane, so I've never seen anything like it before. I. On. I don't know that I've ever seen on YouTube where she was. So I was watching it. I don't know what time it was like, last yesterday evening, but so I'm like, it was live streaming, so I was watching it, but I was like, a little behind the live stream. And then I was doing a few things, like, I think I was putting one of the kids to bed and then, like, making a sandwich or whatever. So I'm like doing other things. And then I'd come back to it. So I was watching it live. But, like, behind the Live stream. And then when I got back to it, it wasn't a live stream anymore. You know what I'm saying? Like, the live stream had ended. And I was watching the V. And so when I. I just remember when I was on, I think it was 300,000 people were watching live when I was on the live stream. And then when I came back to it, I mean, the live stream had just ended and it was like over a million. Like, it was like. It was. I think it's up to like 5 million last I checked or something like that. It was just breaking the goddamn Internet. I mean, it's like, huge, huge show. And. And there was something so compelling about it. It was like, oh, hearing from Charlie Kirk's dear friend, who was the one who broke off from the Daily Wire, and all of that is just very interesting. And at. So she is talking about. Which is a whole different almost element of. I don't know of a theory here where, like, if you narrow this down a little bit, right? Like I am saying, I don't see any evidence pointing in the direction that Israel did this. However, a separate question, which you can connect to that if you want to. I just want to be clear that I'm not connecting to that because I don't see a reason to or a clear piece of evidence to. But there are the claims being made. Benjamin Netanyahu himself trying to milk Charlie Kirk's death. And now there are other claims being made about what the state. What Charlie Kirk's state of mind was about Israel during that time. And that in itself is an interesting question. And Candace in this episode, she did at one point call on me and Tucker Carlson to. To come forward with whatever information we have. She was saying we were both at this last event. So, like, what was it like? What was his state of mind? What were the things being said? And so I thought that was kind of interesting. And I'm thinking. And so I. I thought maybe the best I could do here as a response to the audience being upset about the last episode is like, I'll just come clean with everything I know, including, like, some fucking text messages between me and. And Charlie Kirk, which I figured there were. There were a couple that I thought were kind of relative. So after listening to the Candace episode, I thought about it and I was like, almost like, trying to replay in my mind, like, what, you know, like, what exactly was said when we were hanging out in that green room, because we did hang out for quite a bit before the debate. And the truth is there was Nothing, nothing I could say tangibly about that encounter. Like, demonstrated that Charlie was changing his mind about Israel or something like that. He was very friendly the entire time. I was me. And so I was, you know, like, I. At first. What happened was first I went in there and it was just me and Charlie and his. His guy. I'm blanking on his name right now. I apologize, but he's the guy who's like, on his podcast, so it was them too. And then Josh Hammer came in and it was like all of us for a little bit. And then Charlie's buddy left and it was just me, Charlie and Josh for a little bit. And so at the beginning, before Josh Hammer came in, we did talk about Israel a little bit. And I started. I was needling Charlie, you know, like, I tend to do in those situations. Like, you know, because he was already talking about, you know, we started talking about issues right away. He was saying, like. But everything he was saying was kind of like what you would think Charlie Kirk would be saying in that situation. He was saying things like, he goes, look, I'm with you. I'm against the Forever wars and I can't stand the McCain's and the Cheney's and all those guys. And. And then I was going, yeah, Charlie, but like, you know, right. Like, like I was just like, Charlie was a well read guy enough that I would just be like, but you already know who the neocons are married at the hip to, right? Like, what was that all about? Or don't you know that they're basically just the American LUD party? Like, you know that, right? And it was Charlie Kirk. He would just kind of disarm you with his kindness. Like, he would kind of laugh and then he'd kind, like, he'd look around with a big smile and he'd go, I get your point, I get your point. And then he'd pivot to like, he'd be like, you know, I just really, like, as a Christian, I had really spiritual experiences when I went to Israel and stood in the exact place where Jesus performed miracles and all this. And I really value the holy sites being protected and the bond between, you know, the Jewish people. Like, Jesus was a Jew. And. But. And like all the. And I was like, okay, I get all of that. But like, also, we could do that without genociding our neighbors, right? Probably. And. And like. And like, he'd kind of laugh. And now, if I'm being completely honest, I got the impression that Charlie really kind of knew I was right. That's if I'm being completely honest, that's how I felt. But I got nothing tangible I could point to to justify that feeling. All I could tell you is that in the room I kind of felt like he knows I got a really good point here, but he's kind of not in a position where he can admit it. That's how I felt. But that is purely just a vibe I got. There was nothing he said that actually backed up that that was his feeling. And then when Josh Hammer came in, I don't even remember, I remember at one point we, he was like interested in talking to me about like, how I. He was like, how I'm good on borders and abortion and most libertarians are bad on that. And then we got into a whole conversation about how libertarian first principles lead you to not being for open borders and just like other stuff that wasn't that topic. It was kind of like a thing where Charlie had been saying. And I think I talked about this the week we, we did a podcast with like my thoughts on the event right after the event. But I, you know, once Josh Hammer came in the room, Charlie had been stressing the whole time how he really wanted a good faith exchange of ideas and he didn't want this to devolve into name calling or be anything. And that he really wanted to have a good, you know, honest exchange between me and Josh. And so we, I said yes, and Josh said the same thing. Josh said absolutely yes. And so then we all, just, the three of us had a very pleasant conversation and we ended up talking about other topics. And I think part of that was just like to keep it light and friendly in the green room. Like we're about to go out there and debate this topic. So let's just talk about immigration where we all agree for a little bit before we go out there. Then as I pointed out before, Josh Hammer goes out and by the end of his closing, by the end of his opening statement, he said he was disgusted to be on the stage with me. And I had pointed out like, what a snake behavior that was because literally we had just had like a 40 minute pleasant conversation, like we were all being friends. And then he got out there and said he was disgusted to be in my presence or whatever. Anyway, then I wiped the floor with Josh Hammer and that's how the, the thing ended. So I didn't really have anything. You know, when Candace was like, give, you know, come forward with whatever information you have, I was just, as I was thinking about it, I was like, I Don't really have anything there. But then I did think to myself, I was like, oh, you know, like, me and Charlie Kirk have texted a fair amount of times over the years. Like, let me go back and just see what we said. Exactly. Because I remember he had gone out of his way to, like, text nice stuff. And I said this publicly before, too, that that was our relationship, essentially, that he. He just started reaching out to me. I had done his podcast a time or two, I believe, and he would just text me, like, nice things before, and then he invited me to that. That Turning Point event. So I will say, first of all, very weird feeling going back through the text messages of someone when they just died. Just. There's something about that that's kind of surreal and not a nice feeling. But I did that. And then I did find a couple text messages that I think are kind of relevant to this part of the conversation. I just want to make it clear, I'm not stoking anything that says Israel did it, but just if we're having the conversation about where was Charlie's state of mind and how did he feel about Israel, these are, I think, kind of relevant. And let me just start by saying this, because I was a little torn about whether or not I should. I should read these. I've never done that before. I've never read private text messages or released, you know, like when people do that sometimes and they're arguing with someone, like, they'll really. Screenshots of dms or something like that. I never have done that in my life. Or I don't think so. And I don't like that. I think like that. You know, like, things that are said privately should stay private. But just like in this case. In this case, it does seem like this is like. I don't know, it's like the biggest political assassination of our lifetimes. And this is a huge debate over where his state of mind was. And I do think that a lot of the Zionists are kind of lying when they act like, no, Charlie was just the biggest. Like, he was just Ben Shapiro and nothing else was going on in his head that doesn't seem to be quite right. Now, I've talked about this quite a bit that I thought the big dynamic going on here was that he still needed these kids, he still needed his young activists, and they were abandoning Israel. But, you know, I actually forgot about exactly what he said in a couple of these things. So I'll read them just to be fully transparent. You guys can make of it what you Will, I think I already know what a lot of you are going to make of it, but this is real and the, this is, this is what was said to me. So here, let me. Because I took a couple screenshots of these, but let me just actually read up through them because these are the ones that I thought were relevant. I mean, there's, there's some other texts here where it's just, you know, I mean, he, he texted me saying he really loved my testimony on Tucker Carlson about praying to God in the hospital and my, my daughter was born and stuff, but it just doesn't seem as relevant. But this, these two texts I thought were pretty relevant. So this one is from Sunday, April 13th at 8:01pm he texts me. Listen to you on Rogan. This is like a day or two after the Douglas Murray debate. So I debated Douglas Murray on the Joe Rogan Experience. And it was a big show at the time. It was a big show. I guess Candace Owens changed the definition of big show at this point. In hindsight, a teeny little show. But. So this is, this was Charlie Kirk, unprompted, texted me about the Douglas Murray debate. Now just like kind of keeping in mind, and I want, I'll fully disclaim here, Charlie Kirk's a really nice guy. You could chalk a lot of this up to him being nice. But the Douglas Murray debate with me, you know, like, I'm not overstated. This was like a big thing. This may have been the biggest high profile debate on Israel. And this, this is what Charlie Kirk wrote to me. Sunday, April 13th at 8:01pm Listen to you on Rogan. You did well. Despite me being more on the pro Israel side. Very little. I disagree with what you said. One point when Douglas was going on about you using arguments from authority. It's a ridiculous claim. You were using original source quotes to prove their motives, all capital and motives, not their analysis of geopolitics, et. Two totally different things. You were right on that point, 100%. Keep up the good work. Hope to cross paths at some point soon. I'm sorry. Hope to cross paths at some point. And I wrote back, thanks, Charlie, I really appreciate that. Now again, I'm not saying anyone should make any more of this than there is there. But like, this is Charlie Kirk. He told me privately that there was very little that he disagreed with. And if you go listen to what I said on that show, I was going pretty hard. And so I will say, like, you know, Kanda's calling on me to like release what I know that is one, and I think that's not completely insignificant. Like, I think that does at least demonstrate that this wasn't Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro was not sending me this text message. Let's just say that, you know, I mean, I'm. I don't want anyone to make too much of this. I'm just kind of putting the information out there, I guess We've already established you're going to make of it what you will. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Crowd Health, an amazing company that I've been telling you about for many years. A great alternative to the broken health insurance system. If you could get health care for under $100 a month, would you want that? Would you be interested? Let me tell you about what Crowd Health has just introduced. You can finally rid yourself of the bureaucracy of the health care system and take agency over your own health because Crowd Health has just introduced the Black Swan membership. It's the health care alternative for people who want autonomy over their care, their costs, and their lifestyle. They just need a little help with the Black Swan events that happen in life. Well, now for just 90amonth, you get access to a team of health bill negotiators, lowcost prescriptions and lab testing tools, and a database of lowcost, high quality doctors vetted by Crowd Health. You stay in control without insurance in their networks dictating your care. And what if something major happens? You pay the first $15,000 and then the crowd steps in to help fund the rest. It feels like the options that we used to have before Obamacare messed everything up. And now if you use the promo code POTP, it's only $80 for the first three months. Just go to JoinCrowdHealth.com and use the promo code POTP. Crowd health is not insurance. Opt out. Take your power back. This is how we win. All right, let's get back into the show. Here's the other one that I thought was, was kind of worth what. So he was, he sent me like a tweet that he had posted, which was back about here. So he, he, this is, this is public, right? So you can see this. But he sent it to me. So he, quote, tweeted me a post that I had about the murder of those two Israeli embassy staff members. If you remember that, Rob, you remember that story they got murdered in, in D.C. or something like that. And I, I just had a post about, like, you know, how wrong political violence is and how Anyone who thinks you're helping the poor Palestinians by murdering some embassy workers, you're not. And then Charlie had a long quote tweet to that which this is public if you, you want to find it. It starts with their names, which were Sarah Milgram and Euron Lechinsky. And he says they were two beautiful young people with their whole lives ahead of them. Talks about was senseless and evil and horrifying. It's a little bizarre to read that in the context of today, but. But then he had a, a whole section of the post where he said, I must push back against one thing. All over X I see claims that some people have, quote, blood on their hands. By the way, this is just a really interesting tweet. I haven't read this till right now. I, I didn't click on it. It was. But he sent me it in our text thread. But this is Charlie Kirk, by the way, talking about this stuff. Pretty relevant to today. He said, I must push back against one thing. All over X I see claims that some people have, quote, blood on their hands simply because they've made tweets attacking Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israel government, or the war in Gaza. No. And then he goes off on a whole thing. You can look up the tweet if you want to say it, but he's, he's making the point that it was horrible what happened to them, but it's also messed up to like blame anybody who was criticizing Israel for now being responsible for them doing this. So he sent me that tweet and I responded back as he sent me. He sent me this at noon on May 22, and I responded back at 12:01. I said, I was literally reading it as you texted. And I said, thank you. I really appreciate that. We need cooler heads to prevail here. It's a very dangerous situation. And he said, he said totally. And then he said we should do a podcast in person and have a fun, light hearted, contrasting conversation on Israel. I bet we actually agree on most of it. Truly, I will. And then he said, I will not scold you for not being. So he made a never being joke. And then I said, I'm going to need that in writing. And then he said, screenshot it. And. Okay, I didn't actually plan on screenshotting that or reading that aloud ever at any point. So look, that's all I have. That's all that I actually know about any of this. The, the truth is that I. All of the kind of stuff that Candace is talking about all of this coming to a head. The pressure being put on Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk doing that interview with Megyn Kelly, talking about the pressure. All this stuff about, like, the. The meeting with Ackman and. And all these guys. This all happens after that. And I just never. I never talked to Charlie again, which I really, you know, regret in hindsight, but that happens a lot when we lose people. But I just hadn't. I hadn't talked to him. It hasn't been that long. This was only, you know, in the last couple of months, so I don't. I can't speak to any of that, But I did feel like it was worth pointing that out. That. Again, this doesn't prove anything at all. It is. Charlie was a really nice guy. I know this from just having met him, you know, the one time in person and then other times, like over the computer. And so maybe he was just trying to be nice and extended olive branch and kind of keep, like, a dialogue going there. I mean, this is Charlie Kirk, and that is kind of what he was all about, is keeping dialogue going. And even when he was inviting me on his podcast, which, okay, so, by the way, the story there is. That never ended up happening. But so then essentially what happened was he goes, why don't you come on my podcast? The invite I just read you. I was like, absolutely, let's do it. Then he was like, oh, do you want to do a debate at this big event that we're having coming up here? And then I was like, okay, cool, so we'll do that. And then he was like, okay, we'll do. We'll kill two birds with one stone, and we'll do the debate, and me and you will do a podcast. That was the original plan. And then, like, I couldn't come in till the last day of the conference. We were out in Denver that weekend, and I had to fly from Denver straight down there, and there wasn't enough time to do both, I guess, or something like that. So, like, the podcast didn't end up happening. But so. But so even when he was inviting me on that podcast, he's saying, like, we disagree. You know what I mean? But he's also going, I think you'd be surprised by how much we agree. And on the Douglas Murray podcast, he's saying, I think I, you know, I actually agreed with much of what you had to say. So anyway, that's my response to Candace. That's all I got. I don't have any other useful information that's relevant to here, but at Least the little bit I have, I think does, it does indicate that, like, yeah, there was certainly Charlie was at the very least, at least what he's saying here is that he was listening to, obviously he was listening to what I had to say. Obviously he had been listening to what Candace had to say, obviously had been listening to what Tucker had to say. And he probably was feeling like, you know, a lot of that does make sense. That doesn't mean he agrees with it fully, but I would offer that to say there, I do think there is some evidence that Charlie was struggling with this topic, thinking about this topic, finding some common ground with the very harsh critics of Israel, and was at the very least, like, it's not the case that this guy was just a pure, loyal supporter who wasn't questioning the thing at all. I will say that much. Any, any thoughts on any of this, Rob?
