Rob Bernstein (4:54)

Well, he lives in the real world and he likes to remind you of that in every sense.

Dave Smith (4:58)

Well, yes, yes, yes. This is always the, the war hawks always live in the real world. Well, here in the real world, I, I gotta say, I do think that we're gonna be attacking Iran soon. And I know that there's, I think there's almost like a little bit of an unjustified moment of feeling like it's not gonna happen. You know, Donald Trump obviously was deliberating about bombing Iran last week, and by, by all indications, was going to do it. He then backed off. But everything I'm hearing is, is that it's just backed off for now. And that essentially, from what I'm hearing now, I didn't think this was true at the time. Rob, if you remember, during the last Members Only show we, we had talked about, the New York Times was reporting that Netanyahu got on the phone with Donald Trump and told them, not yet, because we needed, you know, he wasn't ready for the, the Iranian response that they feared would, would come. And at first I was like, yeah, that doesn't sound right to me. But then I heard that from a couple of sources who I really do trust, and then I saw that it was reported just the other day that we've mobilized the USS Lincoln to put in the Middle East. So it actually does seem plausible right now that they realize that, like, oh, we need more backup to be able to shoot down the missiles that come back toward Israel. And I, I think, honestly, like, I'm. I'm guessing a little bit here, I'm going off the sources that I have and the news and what seems most likely to me, but it seems that perhaps even that Ben Shapiro is right, not when it comes to the American people, as he was claiming, but that with Donald Trump, it does seem in some way that, like, this Venezuela thing convinced him that he can do these things fast and easy and they can do them without making all the mistakes that Bush and Obama made or something like that. Of course, the issue with that is that we didn't do anything really in Venezuela other than capture the guy. Like, there is no. It's so. It's so interesting, man, because I see this, because now I'm like, know after the last year, more so than ever, I'm like one of the targets of the hawks, you know, like they're, they pretended for a while to not be super aware of me, but they don't pretend that anymore. But it's like all of them. Like the way they view things is like if, if blows up and it's not a catastrophe, then they win. Like, we got them. Okay, like, what is that actually? What win is that for me and you, Rob? Or like a guy who, you know, drives a truck to a work site? How did he win from Maduro being captured? Well, that's not, it doesn't really matter. We don't have to talk about that ever. He's like, oh, and then there's, we liberated the people, but we're keeping the same regime. Like, oh, so in other words, you didn't liberate the people anyway. I think that, you know, I, I have a feeling that this is still, that this is going to happen. I think that as I've been saying for, I don't know, into a microphone in front of a camera for like 15 years, this is all about regime change in Iran. That's what all of the major principles want out of this. And they're just continuing to find excuses for how to do it. And the, the main driver of this, of course, is Israel and the Israel firsters. And they don't care if it turns into Libya or if it turns into Syria. They're quite happy with that. That's kind of the point. They'd rather that than a strong Iranian government that opposes them and funds Hezbollah. So I, my, my guess here is just that, you know, this is, they're all saying it to us, Rob, in their own words, so why not trust them? This is an Adelson run administration. Her number one priority is what's best for Israel. And, and they, the rulers in Israel have determined that what's best for them is regime change in Iran. And so I do think that's still going to happen. So what we can do at this point essentially is just try to do what we always do and just tear apart the goddamn propaganda like only we can do. Rob.

Rob Bernstein (9:18)

Well, I heard that the fentanyl is actually coming from Iran.

Dave Smith (9:21)

Sorry, that's the new. Yes, it's, we have to liberate the people of Iran from the fentanyl that's coming. Yeah, something like that. Whatever they gotta say.

Rob Bernstein (9:28)

Chatter from Iran is pretty incredible. Supposedly both Israel and Iran reached out to Russia to both agree that they weren't going to shoot each other. Now, I was joking on run your mouth that it was basically a call to the promoter, that they don't, they need a little more time to sell the fight, that they need a longer training camp. And then supposedly Trump convinced himself, which I'd love to see what that conversation is that he was, he was, he was fully going to do it. It's not that anyone gave him other intelligence or any other information. He just convinced himself it wasn't a good idea.

Dave Smith (10:01)

Yeah, it's really, you know, he just says shit like this, so you just like kind of can't ever take him seriously. But yeah, that was a weird one. It's, you know, I've seen one of the things that's I guess of value to me is when these things happen. As I always say when we're in a storm, as I like to say, you just. People get revealed for who they are and you figure out like, who actually has some principles and who abandons them as soon as things start blowing up. And it's your, you know, dear leader in there doing it, you know, as you could imagine, Rob. Right. Like how many people? And don't get me wrong, because there's some who, who are don't fall into this camp. Like many of the worst of the worst, I guess don't. But like, let's just say it was Barack Obama or it was Joe Biden saying the exact same thing about Iran. Right now there's like a serious chunk of like right wing pundits who would oppose the thing, but because it's Trump, they just won't. And I think it's useful to just learn who those people are if nothing else. Sometimes my eyes will get opened, I'll be like, oh shit, I thought that guy was better. You know, like, I figured that guy would be better on this. Um, but you know, with this stuff in Iran I saw, I mean there's so much, the amount of just lies and war propaganda. I don't know if you've like seen on social media, Rob, but like pictures of, of corpses and then you're like, this is AI generated. This is, this is. Then, you know, because the Internet sleuths do their thing. Then it's like, oh, this is from Sudan five years ago or so. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like this isn't even. It's just total lies. I saw one. Oh my God, I can't remember who it was. Scott brought it up on the Tom Woods Show. I can't remember who it was, but it was one of the guys. He's like a think tanker or something like that. But so he posted a thing about. Because the president of Iran was out there in one of the, the big, you know, marches and so he posts a whole thing about how, look, the President's hedging his bets. He's going to sell out the Ayatollah if the regime change comes and try to be a part of the new government. Except what he missed is that that was the pro regime march. That wasn't the protests. He was out there like, like people just getting it completely wrong. Like, oh, you don't even know what the fuck you're talking about. You don't know the basics of this, this conflict at all. You know, you're not even aware. It's like all the reporting where they almost, they almost make it sound, Rob, like what it's like, ok, so the whole dynamic here is that there's people out on the streets protesting and the Iranian government's murdering them. And that's the story. Nothing else. That's the story. But they totally leave out the part that there were also huge pro regime demonstrations. They totally leave out the part that the Mossad is bragging that they have people on the ground in the street there. You know what I mean? Like, they just leave out all those other parts. And you're not supposed to think about or play with that also. They just, you know, leave out all the parts about, like you guys said, this wasn't about regime change, it was only about the nuclear threat. This has nothing to do with the nuclear threat. What about the last six times we've done it in this region and it's been a catastrophe every time. Just leave all of that out and then just me. It's just. We're just humanitarians, Rob. You always say we're all of a sudden all the hawks become humanitarians in service of selling a war. The only time they're ever humanitarian, it's just too much. But anyway, so there's been a lot of this propaganda going on and I think it's, you know, the best thing we can do is just keep tearing it to shreds. And here was a good. There were a few interesting examples of this, but not even. Not specifically related to Iran, but just to the broader kind of Israel support. I loved. I don't know if you saw this, Rob, but Ben Shapiro sat down with Gavin Newsom. Now, I just find this to be so interesting on so many levels because it's like here you have like, essentially, I guess, in Ben Shapiro, the guy who was once kind of like the conservative champion of the Internet in a very inorganic sense. But nonetheless, he ruled. You know, Ben Shapiro ruled the day when all right wingers were getting kicked off of social media sites and demonetized and Shadow bound and all of that. Ben Shapiro never was. He was always the guy YouTube was recommending to you. And he also just happens to be an Israel firster. Coincidence, I'm sure. But so he, him and Gavin Newsome sitting down. Is it just. So there's just something about it where it's like, okay, so here's Gavin Newsome, like in, in some ways the face of the kind of progressive democratic establishment with the worst track record, you know, in the country, just presiding over our, our richest, most beautiful state and making it our poorest, most unlivable state. And so he wants to run for president, obviously. And so here he's going to come deal with Ben Shapiro, the guy who's just totally losing credibility in the conservative world. And but anyway, this meeting of the minds is just kind of interesting. And it's also just interesting Rob as and you know, I'm not trying to make this about me and I probably do that more than I should. It's hard not to. It's a little bit weird when you're like in this world but not even making about me. But like obviously I'm one of the people who's been challenging Ben Shapiro to debate for a long time. There's many others. Ben Shapiro has never debated a competent critic of Israel ever. What the Mr. Debate guys. Never. And the, one of the things that you know, of course people have noticed particularly over the last year, but it's been true for many, many years. I this is, was my introduction to Ben Shapiro was him calling Ron Paul a Jew hater. He called him an alt right Jew hater for being a non interventionist. But the level of contempt that Ben Shapiro has for me, for Tucker Carlson, for Candace Owens, for Nick Fuentes, for Megyn Kelly, the contempt for Megyn Kelly just for not having contempt for the rest of us, that's Megyn Kelly's crime, is that she just kind of likes us, we're all cool. Like that's essentially what she's doesn't. Not that she even agrees with us. In fact she'll say the opposite thing. She still claims to be an Israel supporter, you know what I mean? Like, but, but she's just a nice person or whatever or she's, she's has friends, whatever. So he's got all this contempt for all of us. It does not have this contempt for Gavin Newsom. Like, I mean I'm not saying he doesn't disagree with him on some issues, but he doesn't think he's like a horrible person. He'll Sit down and have a conversation with him. This is the guy who passed into law that teachers can socially transition your kids without telling you.

Rob Bernstein (17:04)

You know, I don't think it's the contempt factor. I think it's that he thinks he can win a debate with Gavin.

Dave Smith (17:09)

Well, that might. Well, that might be. That might be true as well. But I'm just saying he does not speak about him or speak to him in the way that he would with any of the rest of us, or speak like it's just not. And I'm just saying, like, you claim to be Mr. Conservative. He is the epitome of everything you've supposedly been against for the last 15 years of your career, and yet you'll sit down with him now. You make a fair point there, Rob. Part of it also is that, like, he thinks he can handle this situation, although he doesn't handle the Israel part very well at all. But anyway, so there was this weird kind of spectacular moment where, like, Ben Shapiro is pressing Gavin Newsom about Israel, and Gavin Newsom is desperately trying to not take a position. There's a very. There's a very strange dynamic with Israel. We've talked about it a lot. That's, you know, like, what you say. Like, there was that one poll where support for Israel had fallen off 50%, 50 points down from where it had been before October 7th. And so now you have this thing. Now it's particularly true amongst Democrats, but it's. It's a real dynamic within the Republican base as well, where, like, it's going to be true for J.D. vance. It's. It's already true for Gavin Newsom. Like, you want to be president. Okay, well, a majority of your base views Israel as a genocidal regime. So what are you going to do? Say you support them. Okay, but then 100% of the levers of power class are pro Israel. So, like, you've. Who do you choose, Rob? Your voters or your donors? I mean, you have to try to choose both. You can't really say no to either one of them. So anyway, that's kind of the dynamic that. That Gavin Newsom's in.

Ben Shapiro (19:03)

Or.

Rob Bernstein (19:04)

Or you just have to figure out how to try and pull a Trump. Or you lie to your base and then you end up going for the. The donor class.

Dave Smith (19:11)

Yeah, I mean, what the really, the obvious answer here is you got to go to the donor class first and go. And you got a partner going to say some shit. Yeah, I'm going to say some shit out there. Okay. I don't mean any of it. Just what I got to say to get elected. Okay? Be cool. And then really make sure you convince them that. That you mean it. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is my Patriot Supply. And we're highlighting the winter survival kit. We're only a few weeks into winter. It's already brutally cold. I've been getting huge snowstorms, Very, very cold weather. And think about this. If the power goes out when it's really cold, do you have a way to keep yourself and your family warm? This is a real problem. Winter power outages can even be life threatening. Think of Texas a few years ago. This is why so many Americans are getting a Vesta off grid heater from my Patriot Supply. It's a space heater that doesn't use electricity or propane. It runs on something called canned heat, which is an indoor safe fuel. With a Vesta stashed in your closet, you know you can keep warm no matter what. It even doubles as a stove to cook food, which is pretty deep. The best part is right now you can get the Vesta and a bunch more preparedness gear as free gifts. When you order the winter survival kit from my Patriot Supply, just go to my patriotsupply.com problem to see everything included. This offer won't last long. Go take advantage of it now. My Patriotsupply.com problem. My Patriotsupply.com Problem. All right, let's get back into the show. Anyway, let's play some of this clip from, from this, this podcast.

Ben Shapiro (20:45)

Yeah, it seems to be. Have become a sort of de brigor requirement for Democrats who are running for office to now suggest, for example, Scott Wiener just did this, he's running for Congress, that Israel committed a genocide in Gaza. That is, forget about anti Semitism discussions of it because I think that those have become really loose and people don't have a consistent definition of anti Semitism. Let's just talk about what's true.

Gavin Newsom (21:05)

That's true. I think it's true about the definition. I mean, we as you know, been struggling with that in California as it relates to a lot of laws.

Ben Shapiro (21:12)

And like, of course, antisemitism is a fundamentally different cat than, for example, racism. It's basically a conspiracy theory about Jewish power in the world. But.

Gavin Newsom (21:19)

And it makes me sick to my stomach. And I say that clearly. And, but not just of course. I mean, we've, we've tried to lead in terms of our response and we've called out and called balls and Strikes. In terms of the outrageous, I would.

Ben Shapiro (21:31)

You know, in my own framework of anti Semitism, I think that saying overtly false things about the Jewish state is a form of anti. Semitism. But I don't think that that is really important as much as it is is it true or not? So Democrats have now been dragged into this conversation, some dragged some, some run with, you know, flags waving into the conversation of genocide. Yes.

Gavin Newsom (21:55)

Yeah.

Ben Shapiro (21:55)

I mean, look, Israel did not commit a genocide in Gaza. There is no standard by which Israel committed a genocide in Gaza. Just on a factual level. Just.

Gavin Newsom (22:02)

It's a legal.

Dave Smith (22:03)

Let's, let's pause it.

Gavin Newsom (22:04)

Yeah.

Ben Shapiro (22:05)

What is your opinion of this?

Dave Smith (22:06)

Yeah, let's pause it right here. Okay. Yeah, let's. We'll, we'll come back to this in a second. But already there's just so much here. I mean, just like, first of all, again, don't you, he. Don't you see how interesting it is to me? Right. Well, they spent all these, the last two years trying to get this woke right thing to, to stick. It's so right here in front of your face, dude, you're talking to Gavin Newsom. And when you start talking about anti Semitism, you realize you both have the exact same framework. You both have the exact same. Oh, yeah, and we led on that. Oh, yeah, and we. He's talking about as a government dealing with an accusation of bigotry, claiming he led on that and Ben Shapiro has no problem with it whatsoever. Like, yeah, that's right. Ben Shapiro also, he's. He's saying, I'll drop the anti Semitism thing now. You know, it's funny that he's saying he'll drop that after 20 years of ramming it down everybody's throat because it's not working anymore. So he's trying to move to something else. But he does let in there that his under his conception of antisemitism is lying about the Jewish state. So, like, first of all, nobody's lying about what they're doing here. But getting into that in a second, that's just think about that. That's bigotry. Now, like, if I, if I were to lie or get something wrong, like, because, because you can't prove everyone. Like, obviously a lot of people believe Israel's committing a genocide. So let's just say they're wrong about that. Like, you get that wrong. That makes you a Jew hater. That makes you hate the people because you said something that's wrong about a government. Like, like, imagine claiming that if I said like, if I said, you know, France has a tax rate of 35%, and you were like, that's wrong. It's not 35% or something. And there you go. So that makes you a hater of French people. Like, if you got something wrong about. Or even if I lied about the government, how does that. How does it follow logically? How are you not just a hysterical leftist to jump toward that means you're a bigot of some sort. It's just very bizarre. But then, like, Ben Shapiro, and I've seen this, and this is part of why he won't ever actually debate anybody, because he'll just say it like a. Like as if it's a factual claim that, well, it's just not true that Israel is committing a genocide. Well, that, first of all, whether you call this a genocide or not isn't exactly a factual claim. Like, it's not. It's not. Like, if, let's say you're arguing over the number of people who have been killed. Okay, that's a. There is an answer to that that. That doesn't, you know, mean we know the answer. And in fact, I don't know. There was just one new study out there that put the estimate in the 600,000 people have been killed. I've seen others that have estimated it's like 400,000. And then the official number is like, I don't know, like, close to a hundred thousand or something like that. But that's just like the bodies that they've, like, I guess, pulled out. Then the questions are, how many more are in the rubble somewhere anyway? But that's like, a fact. Whether Israel is committing a genocide or not. The, the international law definition of genocide is like something like the. The deliberate destruction of, in whole or in part, of a specific ethnicity, nationality, racial or religious group. I'll say this, Rob, the leading. I know this for a fact, right? I can't remember their name, but it's the lead. It's the biggest organization of genocide scholars in the world, came out this last year and said Israel is committing a genocide. So, like, there's like hundreds of genocide scholars, many of whom studied the Holocaust, because that's a thing that genocide scholars pay attention to who have come out and said, yes, this is a genocide. Now, I don't know exactly if that proves, you know what I mean. Like, I'm not saying, like, I'm not making an appeal to authority here. I'm not saying that means it's a genocide. Certainly demonstrates that a lot of people who Study this stuff for a living, have concluded that. And essentially, Rob, I don't know, I'm curious to get your thoughts on this, but this is why I. Look, I. If you remember, Rob, I stayed out of the genocide conversation for like a year and a half of this thing. For a year and a half. I said, I'm not calling it a genocide. Because then it just gets into a whole debate about what a genocide is. Now we're just debating semantics. So I'd rather just argue this is clearly wrong and grotesque, so we should be against it. But it was after, and it must have been, I don't know, like 18 months of the thing had already happened. Like, Gazans were just getting slaughtered. And then it was when, when they did the food blockade, when Smotridge was out bragging that not one grain of wheat will get into Gaza. And they. And they had a full blockade on all aid for like three months. And this was after like 18 months of destroying the place that I just went, that's a genocide, man. I don't know. You're not fighting war at all. You can't even claim to be fighting war against Hamas. You're fighting a war against the civilian population. And it's a. Of destruction. It's a. It's, you know, like, I don't know. That's a good term for it, genocide. And so again, for. Look, South Africa, way early in the conflict, brought a whole case to the UN where they. Basically, the whole case was just quotes of what the Israeli leaders were saying about them. Look at what the Israeli leaders are saying. They're saying that they're Amalec. They're saying that the goal here is to destroy the people. They're saying that they're going to make Gaza unlivable. They're saying that the women and children are fair game, too. Like, all types of quotes. And not just from, like, random IDF soldiers, although there's a lot of that, but from ministers and prime ministers and Knesset members, all types of people with power. And then, Rob, you just look at the, the aerial pictures of Gaza and you go, yeah, they did what they said they were trying to do. They said they were trying to make it unlivable. And they did. They destroyed the entire place. I'm like, anyway, I guess at the very least, Ben Shapiro does not, you know, facts don't care about your feelings thing here. You don't have an objective fact claim here. This is like, now there's a pretty strong argument that that is the correct word. And then obviously people also like using the word because it's intentionally needling and provocative, and it's, it's holding a mirror up to the supposed, you know, the Zionists and going like, oh, your whole goddamn story is that you people are the victims of genocide, but look at what you're doing to this other powerless group of people. I don't know. Any thoughts, Rob?

Rob Bernstein (28:57)

Yeah, I definitely don't think it's anti Semitic to say that what Israel's doing is a genocide, particularly against the backdrop of everyone calling Donald Trump a Nazi for forever. So, like, speaking to your point of, people use bold words to convey their outrage towards behavior. I, you know, I very rarely agree with Gavin Newsom or agree with his tactics, but in this case, the, the genocide conversation, it's just too academic for me. I'm in, I'm in the lane of, hey, listen, what they're doing is wrong. I can condemn them for what they're doing is wrong. Once you start trying to, like, apply words to it. It's a little bit like, if you go, oh, you know, Rob, you're a feminist. Well, what do you define feminism? All right, I guess I meet that definition, but I don't really think that's what you're conveying with the word. So I hear the word genocide, I think, is 6 million people being shoved into ovens. Now, I'm not knowledgeable enough to know what happened numbers on the Rwanda genocide or the Armenian genocide to go, oh, you know, there are much lesser genocides. We use that term over here. I don't, I don't want to sit down and do the academics of what a word is and how it applies. So, like, I don't care what they're doing is wrong.

Dave Smith (30:01)

Well, also, because it's, it's, it's tedious and it's pedantic and kind of irrelevant in a way. Like, if it's, if it's wrong and horrible and horrific and why do I care if they call it, like, yeah, right, whatever. Like, it's just, you're trying to get to the argument that actually matters, which is, in a sense, like, I, I think I know what you mean. But like, for non academics like us, it's like, yeah, dude, we're not, like, we're not going to a university to just work on the muscle of arguing, you know what I mean? Like, we're here to get to the bottom of this in the real world, so let's skip all that and get to what matters. So, yeah, I, I agree with that. But of course, the idea Even that. I mean, what Ben Shapiro, what facts don't care about your feelings really has here is that people call a really horrible thing a name of an even more horrible thing. And that's wasist. That's what Ben Shapiro is bringing here. Like, it's just. You can't. And, and look, I mean, this is why the guy will always avoid any of these fights. And I do think it's kind of. I mean, it's, it's. Look, I'm not saying. Because people, like, accuse me of saying this. I'm not saying that, like, oh, Ben Shapiro's running from me, that means he's a coward or something like that. It's like the fact that he's running from anyone. Like, especially at a time where, like, dude, everybody, everybody, including, like, Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh have at least like, faced down Tucker or face down someone else talking about this and had to, like, be in a. Pierce Morgan has the most high profile debates, like four times a week or something like that. The debate, the debating scene is, like, exploded. Everyone's kind of doing this now. This is kind of the thing. Like, it's like, okay, it's, it's a big component to, like, kind of being in this, in this world is like, okay, you give your thoughts, you, you, you tell people what your take is, but then we want to see you getting some pushback on that. And how do you deal with that? And how do you deal with this criticism or this, Chris, and the fact that he hasn't done it with anyone? Like, there's holes. I mean, there's like, like, it doesn't have to be a right winger or something like that. It doesn't have to. It certainly doesn't have to be like a white nationalist type or something like that. But there's just like Norman Finkelstein's and people who. It's like, how come you don't sit down with one of them and have the debate? You were supposed to be the guy who brought the argument to people. Instead, you'll sit down with Gavin Newsom, you know, who you know won't go far enough, you know what I mean? In calling you out on your bullshit. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, brand new sponsor, who we're very happy to have on board. And that is superpower. You know, it's the beginning of a new year. New Year's resolutions almost always involve getting healthy. That's a big thing that people are always trying to do, myself included. But now I got to tell you about Superpower. Superpower sends a licensed professional to your home or you can visit at a nearby lab. It's a one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, way more than what you'd usually get, which unlocks so much about your own body. Their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, hormones, metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, even environmental toxins. So from disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog, or simply optimizing your gym game, Superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced system out there. Instead of constantly guessing about what supplements or how much sleep you need or what diet you should focus on, now you know exactly what you're supposed to do for your body. They give you supplement suggestions, nutritional guidance, lifestyle and behavioral adjustments. You can even get your true biological age that you can track over time. Superpower not only gives you the initial plan, but it tracks your results over your lifetime. Stop reacting to health problems after they show up and start proactively improving your health with real personalized data as part of your new year reset. Superpower used to cost $499, but right now it's just 199 for the full experience. Other testing services charge up to $1,000 for similar tests. Know your numbers with Superpower, and not only have they reduced the price of superpower to just 199, but for a limited time, our listeners can get an additional $20 off if you use the promo code problem when you head over to superpower.com that's superpower.com promo code problem for an additional $20 off your membership. Let's get back into the show anyway. All right, let's. Let's play the rest of this clip.

Gavin Newsom (34:58)

My opinion is I understand the tendency for people to make that, to assert that.

Ben Shapiro (35:07)

Why?

Gavin Newsom (35:08)

On the basis of the images and.

Dave Smith (35:11)

Just pause it right there. Personality. Pause it right there. And you can even bring it back just a few seconds to get that. So even Gavin Newsom here, right? Like, you can just imagine, imagine if Ben Shapiro were to, like, bring this question to one of us. You know what, you know, like Gavin Newsom says, hey, look, I can understand the tendency to call a real horrible thing a word that's a more horrible thing, or from, you know, their framework here. And he goes, why? Why? Can you understand that that tendency and what Gavin Newsom gives him is the images and the proportionality. Ok? Now that is the answer of somebody who doesn't read the news, because that's what these politicians do. They don't Read the news. He's vaguely aware that a lot more Palestinians have been killed. And he's vaguely aware that there's a lot of images on social media about those, those babies dying. But like, he doesn't really know anything beyond that. Like, he's not like us. Like, he's not like every day reading the news. Every day. Follow this is, you know, we've talked about this a lot in the past. There's this dynamic. Politicians don't really read the news like that. It's just not the world they're in. Like me and you, our job is to do this show four times a week. So what do we do in the morning when we wake up, Rob? We have some coffee and we read the news because you got to know what's going on in the world. And so that's our job. But Gavin Newsom's job is to like, be at a photo op and then go to like a, a shovel ready job project and then go to a fundraising cocktail party and then it's just a different thing. You know what I mean? Like, it's not. His job is to, is to meet with lobbyists. This was the great thing when our, our buddy Liam Crossgrove went down to D.C. and asked them all about what they thought about the fact that Netanyahu had been propping up Hamas for all these years and no congressman's ever heard of it. I'm unfamiliar with that report. What are you talking about? And the report is the news. You have to. Anyway, so like, if you do read the news, then you'd go like, well, what's with the tendency for people to call it a genocide? You'd be like, okay, well, there's about, you know, a couple dozen doctors in Gaza who have reported treating multiple targets, who have been multiple toddlers, who have been used as target practice, that they're shooting babies in the groin and in the head. Multiple doctors reporting this, including two American doctors. There was the example I just gave where they cut off food for three months to a war torn, impoverished area. There is the, you know what I'm saying? Like, there's like example after example after example. There's the fact that IDF soldiers have gone on record and confessed that they were ordered to shoot into crowds of desperate civilians trying to get a little bit of food. This was after the three month blockade when they finally reopened it. And these desperate people are pouring into these food sites and they would just shoot live ammo at him for crowd control. Ended up killing several hundred of them. You know, anyway, if you do read the news, it would be like, oh, how? Like, just pull up anti war dot com. Read Dave DeCamp's last thousand articles. And there's just example after example after example where they're just going after civilians, intentionally targeting civilians. Forget my whole meta argument about how it's always intentional. You know what I mean? Which is true. But, like, no actual examples where it's not like, even the claim is that a Hamas guy was in there and we had to get him. So it's acceptable that there's collateral damage. No one was even claiming that a Hamas guy was in the crowd of people trying to get food. They're just saying, as crowd control, we use live ammo. They admitted it. There's a major piece in Haaretz about this. It was called like, it's a killing field something. Killing Field was the title of the piece. And they had, like, they had one IDF soldier on record and then a bunch anonymous who said it in. Just in that piece. So anyway, you know, there's like, a lot of examples like that. So again, whether you want to get into the semantics, like, I think, Rob, you said this. This is fine. This is a debate for genocide scholars to have whether you call this a genocide or not. But that's why people are calling it that. All right, you want to.

Rob Bernstein (39:35)

I like this next moment a lot. Let's roll a clip.

Dave Smith (39:37)

Okay, let's roll it.

Gavin Newsom (39:40)

And the proportionality doesn't mean genocide. No, no. And by the way, I agree with you and international.

Ben Shapiro (39:46)

And I'm not. Doesn't mean that if you kill my child and I then kill seven criminals that I've been disproportionate.

Gavin Newsom (39:53)

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think the.

Dave Smith (39:56)

Oh, dude, you got to pause it already right there.

Gavin Newsom (39:58)

Didn't see, on the basis.

Dave Smith (39:59)

You gotta pause it already right there. Because isn't that. Isn't it. Look. Look how much he just falls apart, how terrible he is at just arguing this. So see, even in your analogy there, Ben, they were all criminals, right? That's kind of the whole point right there. All as criminals. You know, Jews. I remember this was the thing. It was that guy, Joel Berry from the Babylon Bay. And. And this is what makes things like this so amazing to me, right? Because this isn't like. It's not as if, like, I brought up a line of argumentation that you weren't expecting, and you kind of said something that, like, doesn't really make sense. And then you were like, okay, well, let me think about that. Because that happens to all of us. Right? But this has been the argument for two years, Matt. That's the backdrop. This has been the thing that is, you know, the big issue that. The big issue of the last two years that people have been debating about that what Israel's doing in Gaza, Israeli control over our government, all this stuff. And people like the Babylon B guys, they've been. This is. They've been in this fight. So this is. After all this time of thinking about it, this is where their mind state is. They still haven't, like, grappled with what the argument is. So he goes to me, if you remember, it was when the. When the peace deal first went through and phase one had been carried out. And phase one, you know, included like, an increase in some aid going into Gaza cutting back on the number of Gazans that Israel's killing. They're still killing Gazans, by the way, this whole time, but in substantially lower numbers. And so that's good. And there were some prisoner swaps. And so I said that. I said I had a tweet, something like that, where I just went like, well, I'm not so optimistic about the long term here, and we'll see if this thing holds. But at least there's some prisoner swaps. There's some more aid getting in, and less people are dying right now. That's at least better than where we were a week ago. And he responded back irate that I had said, or I think I said hostage swaps. He was irate that I had said hostage swaps. He goes, no, Dave. He goes, Israel got back 20 hostages, or whatever the number was that time, but they. The Palestinians got back 2000 terrorists. Now, of the 2000 hostages that Israel had given back, 1700 of them were held without charges. They were just people rounded up during the war. They didn't even face a military tribunal. They had nothing. But he referred to all of them as terrorists. And you're like, yeah, that's the point, dude. That's the genocide claim right there. That we see 2 million people here. You don't get to just decide they're all terrorists. That's the genocidal claim. Where you go, this entire group is evil, and therefore we have a right to kill all of them. That's the thing. So, like, in Ben Shapiro's mind. Well, yeah, that does kind of work, Rob. Right? If you said, hey, someone killed one of my family members, but then I killed seven criminals, who the cares that it's seven? But that's because they're criminals. We're talking about the three year old girl. I'm sorry, that's the whole debate right there. No, I do not look at a three year old girl as a fucking terrorist. I don't look at a little kid like that. I'm sorry, so that's, that's where your analogy falls. You're not acknowledging the innocent people, the innocent children, which I think is what most of the outrage is about with this. All right, let's, that's, that's what I.

Rob Bernstein (43:37)

Was, was just even his usage of the word criminals in the poor personality. That's. Well, you're kind of admitting, oh, so if they weren't criminals, then there would be a problem with it. Well, then that's what people are objecting to. And there's like. And there's another weasel trick that he's pulling here of he tried to assert you're anti Semitic if you call this a genocide. And Newsom's basically responding to, well, I understand why people would be calling it a genocide based off of what they're seeing and why, like that might be wrong in them to say so, but it's a reasonable. And then basically Shapiro's dropping like the first claim and now he's just going to the second claim of, well, you're calling it a genocide and it's not supposed to be called a genocide. And he's like, no, but there's enough here that it's not anti. It's a different argument to say, is this a genocide or are people anti Semitic for calling it a genocide? Those are two separate arguments. And so Newsom's defending the secondary one of, I don't think people are being anti Semitic by calling this a genocide because there's enough happening here. And then Ben Shapiro is trying to fight him on, well, it's not a genocide. Well, that wasn't really your claim. Your claim was people are anti Semitic if they call this a genocide. So that's the first weasel move. And then his second weasel move is this pivot of, well, the proportionality is against criminals. Yeah, well, it's not against criminals, which is why it's not anti Semitic. If people are calling the action a genocide because Israel's not just going after criminals. Even at the beginning of the war when you guys claim, oh, well, these are all military targets. Really, go look at the footage of all the destroyed rubble now and tell me all that was just intended to help to hit military targets.

Dave Smith (45:11)

Yeah, the thing is that you come back to being genocidal. I mean, it's like, because if you're going to say they're all military targets, that you're essentially telling me that 2 million people, including their children, are all legitimate military targets. What. I mean that. It's crazy. Listen. I mean, it's crazy to hold children accountable for the sins of their parents. Like, if I were to go out and kill someone, the idea that you would then think you could bring violence to my 4 year old or my 7 year old. So you know what I mean? Like, that'd be insane enough. And I'm their parents. These, most of these kids that just like, just happened to be born in the same strip as the guys who did October 7th, it wasn't their dad or their uncle or even their uncle's friend. It was for the. For the vast majority of them, it was just like the relationship is like what you have to like a gangster in Chicago or something like that. It's like you're. It's like if. If. I mean, I guess you don't live in Chicago, but like pick. Pick someone who lives in Chicago. It'd be like holding them responsible for what the Bloods do. You're. They did a. They committed violence. Therefore we could kill your kids. This, like, I. I don't know if that's your logic. That, like, yeah, it's kind of reasonable when people compare that to genocide. Seems like where I would, you know, like, seems like where any reasonable person would go with that. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Body Brain Coffee. We love Body Brain Coffee here at. Part of the problem. If you are looking to naturally boost your testosterone, you gotta check this out. It's delicious coffee. You don't have to worry about taking pills and supplements. I know personally, I'm never gonna do that, but I could easily just have a cup of coffee every morning. And it's a delicious cup of coffee too. I've been drinking this stuff for months. I feel better than I have in years. It's real. A lot of people agree with me. I. You got to go check it out. And of course, we'll be supporting our boy Louis J. Gomez in the process. And it's very important that we do that. And it's also very important that we let him know that we were the ones who blew up his coffee brand. I need this from you people. So go check them out@bodybraincoffee.com and make sure to use the promo code. Dave. 20. That'll get you 20% off your next, order bodybraincoffee.com promo code Dave. 20 for 20% off, naturally. Boost your testosterone and have some delicious coffee while you're doing it. All right, let's get back into the show. All right, let's keep playing.

Gavin Newsom (47:37)

Of trying to reconcile the proportionate nature of how the war was ultimately conducted.

Ben Shapiro (47:44)

I question why do you. Why do you feel the need to create a permission structure for that sort of stuff? I mean. Meaning it's not true. Why not just say it's not true?

Gavin Newsom (47:55)

Yeah, look, I don't know the definition. I don't know the legal threshold. That's not my opinion. So I don't. I don't share that opinion as it relates to genocide. Not. I do not agree with that.

Ben Shapiro (48:03)

Not that you do understand that if you accuse Israel of committing a genocide, that now puts Israel in the position of it should be a pariah state, because states that commit genocide should be pariah states. So granting legitimacy to that position inherently.

Gavin Newsom (48:16)

I'm not granting legitimacy. I'm just saying the devastation in Gaza, at the human level, you've got four.

Ben Shapiro (48:23)

Of course it's terrible.

Gavin Newsom (48:24)

No, but I think it's also important to absorb that a little bit more. Just as it was sick and we were clear in our condemnation, these people like me, as it relates to what Hamas did in that act of barbarism and terrorism.

Ben Shapiro (48:37)

Terrorism and wartime collateral damage, of course. And if we refuse to acknowledge that and we end up collateral.

Rob Bernstein (48:44)

Yeah, I guess if you want to put fancier terms on the activities, then sure, there's a clear. It's the same as when you want to go after anyone in America because you declare them a terrorist. You can throw a term on anything and then justify the action.

Dave Smith (48:59)

You know, again, this is. This is something I've been arguing now in debates for. For two years and pretty overwhelmingly just dominating in these debates because this is just such an indefensible position. Now, first of all, I should. Before I even get to the indefensible position. And I know, you know, like, look, I mean, I know we've. We've talked about this stuff before, guys, but, like, this is the dominant kind of fight, so we got to keep shredding this stuff. Number one, wasn't it kind of fascinating there at the beginning how Ben Shapiro almost reveals that he's arguing from his conclusion? Like, he's going like, yeah, but if you call it genocide, then Israel's the bad guy. And if Israel's the bad guy, that can't be right. You know what I mean? Like, it's. I was like, wait, what? So you can't. The reason you can't say they're committing a genocide is because. Well, if they were committing a genocide, then the right thing to do would be for us to stop supporting them. Okay, but that's only if you take it as a given that the right answer can never be that we're to stop supporting them. Maybe that is the right answer. What a thought. And so, you know, like, Ben Shapiro going, why are you giving permission? Why are you giving this a state? It's just so. It's like all of them kind of pretending that they don't know what's really going on here. Like, is Gavin Newsom really giving any of us permission? What would happen if Gavin Newsom said, stop, you don't have permission anymore? Nothing. Right. In fact, Gavin Newsom would be going along with Ben Shapiro. He's just simply making a political calculation here, Rob. Obviously, that's all he does, and that's what he's doing. Like, I can't. I can't say anyone who said this is genocide is bad because that's like 70% of my voters. So I can't say they're bad for saying that that's not going to work. But he's got a pretty solid little argument here to say. Well, I certainly can understand it. I mean, it is horrible. And I do love. I did love the moment that he had there where he goes, look, dude, you think. Think about how horrible what's being inflicted on the people of Gaza is. And Shapiro goes, yeah, of course. And then. And he goes, no, absorb that. I actually liked that moment a lot because that is the thing that they do try to, like, yada yada over, you know, I remember. And I think it was one of the things I watched back, like, parts of my. My interview on the Trigonometry podcast. I don't really like watching my own stuff that much, but I watched part of that, and it was. There was one moment in it where I was like, oh, yeah, I really let them off the hook there, and I should have pressed more. And it was something like that. Like, I started getting into the details of how gruesome the way Israel's conducting the war is. And they went, yeah, okay, we're not arguing with that. But anyway. And then I just let them kind of move on. And I was like, no, I really should have liked, pressed on that and been like, no, come on. Like, what if you started talking to me about how gruesome October 7th was? And I just went, yeah, no, obviously, but get to that. It's like, no, sit there and take that for a second. Like that. And as soon as you start doing this, what's interesting is, even as Gavin Newsome is just trying to ride the fence here, right? Or sit on the fence, he's trying his best to be like, let me just.

Rob Bernstein (52:07)

Going up his butt. And he likes it.

Dave Smith (52:10)

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, that's right. And he's. And that's legal in California. You can do it right there on the sidewalk. But there is. He's just trying to ride the. He's just trying to be like, let me just say. Enough that it doesn't piss off either side here too much. He's just trying to be a politician. But even as he starts coming up with something, what does he immediately do, Right, Rob? He immediately goes, well, look what's happening. You got to admit what's happening to these people is terrible, right? Like, you at least got to admit that this is really, really awful what's happening to a whole lot of, like, real human beings. But then he goes, and look, same thing on October 7th. It was really, really awful what happened to all these human beings. And then Ben Shapiro has to retreat into this, like, construct of, like. No, but it's different because this one was collateral damage, and this one was intentionally targeting civilians or something like that. But think about the point I guess I'm making, first of all, is that. Look what Gavin Newsom's already done. This is what happens when you just start thinking logically. You become a human, and you go, I don't know, dude.

Ben Shapiro (53:18)

It's.

Dave Smith (53:19)

It's so horrible what's happening to some little girl in Gaza. And it's so horrible what happened to somebody at a. At a rave concert in. Outside of Gaza, you know, and already, what are you doing when you become a human being? You're just putting them on an equal level. You know, you're going, they got people, and you got people. But that is kryptonite to the Zionists. You're not allowed to do that. It can't be like, oh, we look at them as humans and us as humans, so we got to reframe this into this, you know? And then, of course, the thing, Rob, is I think what you were kind of getting at first, which is the thing I've been saying in these debates for years now, is that. So you're going to go, yeah, but that's different, because it's collateral damage. Like, is it really, though? Because, like, in a lot of ways it's not. Even if you want to argue like, even if we just left out all the examples I used where they're deliberately targeting the civilian population. But if you just look at, I don't know, like, you know, you blow up a building and there was, there was a bad guy in the building and then also in the building were like a couple 8 year olds and then there's like an 8 year old who's crushed under the rubble and is screaming for his mother and the mother's outside with no bulldozers or excavators or whatever. And you know, they're just sitting there like while their 8 year old gets crushed to death, hearing them scream. Would that not be like I'm saying in effect that was still done to those people. You know, that's the part that you really can't get away from. And if you took that action knowing that that was what was going to happen as Israel did over and over and over again, then it was intentional or the word intentional doesn't mean anything. And so like, yes, you took an intentional act that results in a real mother and a real 8 year old going through the most miserable thing your mind can like even conceive of the stuff of nightmares, you know. And so I don't know, like Rob, if that were to happen to you or your, you know, your family, I know you got little nieces and nephews and stuff like that. Like if that were to happen to your family, I think to me, if that were to happen to my children, does it matter? Would it mean a whole lot to you if you went to. Don't. If it's any consolation, it was collateral damage. This wasn't like, don't worry, I know you just went through that. I know that was just done to you. But just so you know, it wasn't towel heads breaking over a fence and, and shooting people with guns. It was, it was done by an idf, you know, fighter pilot or something. Why does that change it so much? It, like, I don't think it really does. And like, you know, people, I, I think that the argument, people take it as a given that that's somehow different because we have a fancy name for it. We call it collateral damage. But again, like, if any, if any group of criminals ever used that, like just imagine if, if Hamas broke out of, of Gaza and just, you know, let's say they, they got some, some their hands on some sophisticated missiles, which they never seem to have, but let's just say they did and they just started like bombing IDF bases in Tel Aviv and also blew up a whole bunch of, like, apartment buildings. You think they'd be saying, that's not terrorism, it's just collateral damage. It's a totally ridiculous, like, standard that you'd only hold one side to and never the other. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Fume. Fume has been a longtime sponsor of this show. I'm thrilled to have them back on. I love Fume. I actually have used the Fume many times. 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And when you grab a Journey packaging, you'll get a free gift when you use our promo code problem. Fume has already helped over 700,000 people take steps towards better habits. And now it's your turn. Use promo code problem when you go to try fume.com. that's T R Y F U M.com promo code problem to claim your free gift today when you pick up the Journey pack. All right, let's get back in the show. By the way, they did kill a bunch of IDF soldiers on October 7th. I mean, yes, clearly they didn't. They weren't like, aiming at them and then hit the kids in the concert. They killed a lot of civilians as well. But like, I don't know, it just doesn't. I think it's, it's. I just think this argument on a basic human level completely falls flat.

Rob Bernstein (58:50)

He said fancy words really Quickly.

Dave Smith (58:53)

Yeah, well, that is what he does here. Let's, let's finish this clip.

Gavin Newsom (58:58)

Damage. I just, I have stronger opinions. It wasn't just collateral, you know.

Ben Shapiro (59:01)

Really? You think that Israel is targeting civilians?

Gavin Newsom (59:03)

I think some of the double tapping issues. I have a lot of issues with how BB ultimately conduct the war. I personally do. And I have a lot of issues that are also painted on the basis of the conversation I had a few weeks later after October 7th. The way he talked about the Palestinians, I kept talking about Hamas, he kept talking about the Palestinians, I kept coming back to Hamas. And then ultimately how the war was conducted. Not saying it was a genocide, I'm not, but I have issues.

Ben Shapiro (59:30)

What is the thing that he's.

Dave Smith (59:32)

Yeah. So again, what's just kind of revealed there, Rob? What is it like, Kevin Newsom doesn't read the news. He doesn't know stuff. The best he could come up with was double tap and the way the war is conducted, but has no specifics to like, point out. But make no mistake about it here, because this is kind of what's so interesting about this. Israel has become, it's kind of like, you know, in those, like, in like an old timey, like pirate movie, Rob, where they'd make you like walk the plank and then you'd have like a, like an anchor, like tied to your leg. Okay? Israel's become the anchor, but it's not tied to your leg. You're just holding on to it and, and you're drowning because you're holding on to this, this anchor. And it's like you could just let go and rise up to the top and go take a nice breath. But these people are like, I can't let go of this thing. But just think of it. Zoom out for a second here, Rob, and go, Ben Shapiro, who Ben Shapiro was billed as 10 years ago, okay? Ben Shapiro, the fucking wizard, the. The highest verbal iq, fastest talking, best debater, gunslinger in the conservative world. He'll Facts don't care about your feelings. He'll go up against any leftist and tear them up, tear them to shreds like that Ben Shapiro. And then think about all the years of Wokeism and the years of COVID And now you got like the lockdown governor, I mean, I guess Cuomo, but he's defeated, you know, the lockdown governor, who's left standing. And he's. And Ben Shapiro is coming in to, to battle that guy and he's losing. He's losing. Ben Shapiro is getting smoked by Gavin Newsom right now. Anybody who looks at that. I mean, you could obviously, you know, knock Gavin Newsom for trying to, you know, you know, basically not take a position or something like that. But anyone who's looking at that right now goes, ah, dude. I mean, Ben Shapiro's grasping for straws and Gavin Newsom's making at least a few undeniably good points. And just think about that. Like, it used to be these guys used to be the ones who could go out and win any debate. Like, that was the whole, the whole aura, Remember that? It was like, it was like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro and these guys, like the Steven Crowder type guys, change my mind, you know, blah, blah, blah. We'll go out, I'll debate all you guys. We'll take on all of you.

Ben Shapiro (61:58)

We'll.

Dave Smith (61:58)

We'll win because we have. Our ideas have merit. And you guys just have woke scolding and all this. And now Ben Shapiro comes in and tries to woke scold Gavin Newsome. That's like his angle to go to start with. Like, it's anti Semitic. You're opening the door for bigotry or something like this. And just. And just has nothing. It's like they gave up on the fact that they could win the debate and win over the American people because they just won't let go of support of this obviously indefensible thing. Like, it's just crazy. I understand that. Believe me, me and Rob are both Jewish. We both got Jewish friends and family and stuff. I understand supporting Israel is all tied into a lot of people's Jewish identity. But it's like, what's, what's happening almost, in a way, is that you're just so, like. Like I said, you're just so committed to holding on to this anger that you're going to drown yourself. But you could just let it go. You could just let it go and go. Yeah, I don't support this shit. It's crazy. You fucking kidding me? I mean, yeah, it was a bad terrorist attack, but like, Jesus, man, reinforce your border, do some facial recognition. Even if you're going to do some strikes, some precision strikes or something, do something. But like, even, even my godsend, the military in and occupy the place and, and you know, whatever. I mean, you do, but you just destroyed it. Are you out of your mind? And for those people saying, like, yeah, okay, fair enough, maybe, maybe I would have been critical of a military occupation too. Fair enough. But, like, at least you'd have a leg to stand on going, we had to go in there so that we could Bring these people to justice so that we could take them, but to just like carpet bomb the place into non existence and then turn around and think you're going to win an argument with anybody that that's defensible. You tell me, Rob, how does this work?

Rob Bernstein (63:48)

Well, with all that said, it feels like Newsom's holding the exact same anchor.

Dave Smith (63:53)

Well, he won't exactly let go of it. Yeah, like Newsom. Newsom's kind of like. Well, maybe if like I drop it for a minute and then I could like come back and get it again and then I kind of. No, I mean, look, Newsom is. And again, I don't. I, I guess that's, that's actually a good point too, because I should, you know, I'm too focused on trying to trash Ben Shapiro because the other thing, and this is partly why we did this for the episode here today, is that I just think there's, it's, it was a very interesting meeting of like the collapsing Israel lobby and the Democratic hopeful who still is. Even though I've been on record saying I think AOC is more likely than Gavin Newsom at this point, probably still my guess is the odds on favorite, like on betting sites and stuff. I check Calci, but I bet Gavin Newsom is the favorite to be the nominee right now. That would be my assumption. And so the other thing that's really interesting here is that you're having him kind of test run how he might talk about this issue. But like I, you know, I've talked about this with JD Vance, but a very similar dynamic is true on the Democratic side. In fact, a more stark dynamic where I just don't think this is going to be good enough. I think this is one of these issues. It's kind of like, like abortions kind of like that. Although abortion's never exactly been the central issue of, of American politics. But like you kind of can't halfway this. Yeah, I mean, I guess you can a little bit with abortion. Like you could have your like 10 week rules, but even that's pretty goddamn pro life at that point. Like if you're telling pro choicers that abortion is illegal for, you know what I mean? Like for, for the entire rest of the pregnancy. You know, like if you say there's 10 weeks, you're still saying 30 weeks are illegal, something like that. I don't know. I think with this thing it's just if people are, are if there's people who view something as a genocide, this isn't going to be good enough. You have to oppose the thing in order to win them over. And for. For the. The Zionist crazies, this is way too much already. You know, like, you've kind. So you're in this situation where by trying to walk the tightrope, you actually repel both groups. So he's not. He's not winning in that sense. Like, this isn't a political winner, but he did fuck up Shapiro in this exchange. All right, any final thoughts, Rob?

Rob Bernstein (66:22)

Well, man, we're gonna have a stack next episode because there was a ton of shit that we didn't get to. So back tomorrow, check out the run your mouth podcast. I just did a great episode with Gene Epstein along with the solo pod and porching. Episode one and two are still out there, so if you haven't checked them out already, please go check them out.

Dave Smith (66:39)

Absolutely. Check all of that out. And comic Dave Smith.com come see us on the road. Bunch of dates that have not been canceled. Come on out to those. All right, thanks, guys. Catch you next time. Peace. Sa.