The TP USA Spectacle

Summary

Podcast Summary: Part Of The Problem – "The TP USA Spectacle"

Host: Dave Smith (w/ Rob Bernstein)
Date: December 23, 2025
Main Theme:
Dave Smith and Rob Bernstein examine the fallout from the Turning Point USA (TP USA) conference, highlighting deepening rifts in the American right over Israel, censorship, and the demand for ideological conformity. They dissect Ben Shapiro's contentious keynote address, reactions from the conference's other major voices, and the implications for the future of right-wing politics.

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the spectacle of the recent TP USA conference, focusing on the ideological battle lines drawn around Israel and the culture of calling for public denunciations within the conservative movement. Dave and Rob specifically analyze Ben Shapiro’s keynote speech, the reactions from other speakers like Tucker Carlson and J.D. Vance, and what these dynamics reveal about the shifting ground on the American right.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dave’s Battle with the Flu and Quick Intro [00:36–03:59]

• Dave kicks off by recounting his recent illness, establishing a casual, self-deprecating tone.
• Rob jokes about Dave’s "flu flight" and being "unvaccinated," drawing analogies to childhood toughness and fatherhood.
• They quickly pivot to Rob’s comedy tour update and minor plugs for their own projects.

2. Trump’s (Non-)Announcement on Venezuela [03:59–08:28]

• BG: After rumors (fueled by sources and media figures like Tucker Carlson and Dave DeCamp) that Trump would announce military action against Venezuela, the actual address turns out to be a non-announcement, focused on the economy.
• Dave expresses exasperation at Trump’s "trolling" style and the rollercoaster of speculation:
  “Donald Trump's just gotten to a point with me... I'm just over this shit, dude...” [06:20]
• Compares Trump’s tactics to a scene from "The Office" where a prank leads to unnecessary panic.

3. Motivations Behind US Policy on Venezuela & Cuba [08:28–13:58]

• Rob speculates Trump’s team floats war rumors to test reactions.
• Dave references Scott Horton’s book Provoked, noting "legacy-building" and personal incentives often drive foreign policy decisions, not national interest.
• Pinpoints Marco Rubio as the biggest US driver on Venezuela policy, highlighting the outsized influence of individual actors:

  "Marco Rubio's Cuban. This is my point. That's what I'm getting to with all of this… they had to give him some toy to chew on and it happens to be Venezuela." [12:07]

• Discussion expands to the cynical use of humanitarian or narco narratives as cover for interventionism.

4. The Drug Pretext for War & Cynicism of War Justifications [13:58–15:03]

• Rob mocks the flimsy justification of military action to "save America’s drug addicts," drawing a sharp line between compelling national security arguments and contrived pretexts.
• Dave draws parallels to Iraq—multiple shifting rationales for intervention signal bad faith:

  "Why do you need seven different things if the first one wasn’t bullshit?" [15:17]

5. Responding to Online Criticism & War Footing with Iran [15:03–16:42]

• Dave addresses critics who attacked him for a now-deleted tweet about an imminent Venezuela escalation, emphasizing the absurdity of being "wrong" for being preemptively cautious against war.
• Reveals: Netanyahu meeting with Trump soon, reportedly to push for US strikes on Iran.

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The Turning Point USA Conference: Main Event

6. The TP USA Divide and Ben Shapiro’s Keynote [16:42–24:41]

• Context: TP USA event showcases deep right-wing splits, particularly over Israel and demands for denouncements of figures like Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes.
• Dave sets up Ben Shapiro’s opening speech as overtly self-righteous and combative: "He just starts off the event by just chastising everybody in the whiniest possible manner for not condemning Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes…" [22:49]
• Rob notes Shapiro dispenses good advice about truth, but is hypocritical, ignoring his own biases on Israel and COVID.

7. The "Truth" Rhetoric and Dismissal of Dissent [24:41–27:52]

• The hosts compare Shapiro’s "truth arbiter" position to CNN’s notorious "this is an apple" campaign.
• Quote [Ben Shapiro, 26:52]:

  "If Candace Owens decides to spend every day since the murder of Charlie Kirk... to cast aspersions... or outright claim complicity in a cover up... then we as people with a microphone have a moral obligation to call that out by name."

• Dave argues this is a tactic to avoid substantive policy debates—especially on US support for Israel:

  "These guys want to talk about anything except the issue…” [27:52]

• Calls out Shapiro’s shifting argumentation and focus on character attacks instead of policy debate.

8. Denunciation and Forced Conformity [27:52–38:56]

• Rob likens the right’s calls for public denunciations to woke demands for anti-racism.
• Dave expands the critique:
  "You have a moral obligation to denounce any of the people who oppose this gigantic regime..." [44:58]
• Critique of the tactic of shutting down discussion by labeling dissenters with accusations (anti-Semitism, conspiracy thinking).

Notable Moment [32:38] — Dave on Standpoint Censorship

"Why am I supposed to help you do that, when I disagree with the policy to begin with?”

9. Ben Shapiro’s Hypocrisy on Liberty & Truth [43:23–46:38]

• Ben Shapiro claims TP USA’s mission is "freedom, free markets and limited government."
• Dave flames the contradiction that supporting a vast US empire and interventionism is fundamentally opposed to libertarian principles:

  "You don’t believe in liberty or free markets, because we couldn’t be a world empire that would prop up Israel if we had that…" [44:37]

• Rob:

  "Limited government with a carve out for wars..." [44:41]

10. The Debate Challenge and Right-Wing Influence [53:09–58:14]

• Observes Shapiro’s plummeting grassroots relevance, especially compared to surging voices like Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, and Nick Fuentes.
• Dave:

  "Ben Shapiro was so huge and he’s fallen so far from where he was… Ben Shapiro was getting tens of millions of views on videos before me and you ever hit 10,000…" [53:09]

• Notes that Shapiro doesn’t engage in actual debate with these rising stars, instead resorting to decree and censure.

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11. J.D. Vance’s Crucial Statement at TP USA [62:57–65:10]

• J.D. Vance pointedly refuses to play the denunciation game in his speech:

  [J.D. Vance, 63:00] "I didn’t bring a list of conservatives to denounce or to deplatform. ...The best way to honor Charlie is that none of us here should be doing something after Charlie’s death that he himself refused to do in life."

• Dave sees this as Vance siding, if subtly, with the side of debate and inclusion, rather than Shapiro’s call-out approach.
• Rob notes Vance’s careful language: it’s a bit of politician-speak, avoiding specifics about Israel or Nick Fuentes, but still a clear rebuke of the denouncement culture.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Dave Smith

• "You don't get to just put yourself in this chair like up here on a mountain where you're the arbiter of what everybody else is supposed to talk about. How about fuck you.” [31:40]
• "If you want to ask me, like, if you want to be an adult and treat me like an equal and look me in the eyes and ask me how I feel about something, I will gladly tell you. Criticize me for all the things you want… But the fact that you need me to go denounce somebody else when it’s already clear where we disagree, that’s just lame.” [41:35]

Rob Bernstein

• "It’s the Ben Shapiro censorship tour." [51:42]
• "Limited government with a carve out for wars..." [44:41]

Ben Shapiro (from the conference)

• "The conservative movement is also in danger from charlatans who claim to speak in the name of principle, but actually traffic in conspiracism and dishonesty... These people are frauds, they are grifters, and they do not deserve your time." [46:38]

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Important Timestamps

• 03:59 — Trump’s rumored Venezuela announcement and what really happened
• 08:28 — Rubio’s Venezuela obsession; personal incentives in foreign policy
• 13:58 — Ridicule of war over drugs; comparison to Iraq
• 22:43 — Breakdown of Ben Shapiro’s TP USA lecture
• 26:52 — Ben Shapiro denounces Candace Owens and “conspiracists”
• 32:38 — Dave’s critique: "Why am I supposed to help you do that…?"
• 41:35 — Refusal of denunciation on command
• 43:23 — Shapiro appropriates classical liberal language
• 44:41 — Rob: "Limited government with a carve out for wars"
• 46:38 — Shapiro’s generic “truth” rhetoric
• 53:09 — Shapiro’s waning influence
• 63:00 — J.D. Vance’s refusal to denounce fellow conservatives

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Final Analysis: What Does This All Mean?

• The conference exposed the increasingly unbridgeable divide on the right over foreign policy, the Israel issue, and the morality of public denunciations as a tool for ideological policing.
• Dave and Rob side strongly with pluralism and real debate, castigating both the Zionist camp’s focus on hall-monitoring and the right’s drift towards tactics that echo the worst of woke culture.
• J.D. Vance is seen as tentatively siding with the inclusive, anti-denouncement contingent but is also walking a tightrope between the base and donor class.
• The episode closes out with an overarching sense that new power centers on the right are emerging—and Shapiro’s old-guard tactics are increasingly unpopular with the grassroots.

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Summary Verdict:
A sharp, irreverent breakdown of the new conservative civil war: celebrity dogmas, calls for ideological purity, and a fight over what future the movement will choose—open debate or top-down enforcement. Essential listening for anyone tracking the post-2024 American right.

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Transcript

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[Dave Smith]

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[Dave Smith]

What's up? What's up, everybody? Welcome to a brand new episode of Part of the Problem. I am Dave Smith. He is Robbie the Fire Bernstein. We're back. It's good to be back. I, I last spoke to you guys on Wednesday when we did our last show. And I do think. Did I say, I said on the show, Rob. Right. I was like, I'm pretty sure I have the flu right now and I'm about to go down with it. I was correct. I was correct. I had it. I went down mere hours after that show and I basically just got back up. But I won.

[Rob Bernstein]

Well, that's a, that's a quick rebound for a man of your age just four days out with the flu. That's pretty good, bud.

[Dave Smith]

I think broad strokes were the same age, but yeah, okay, whatever. Sure. I guess really understand. I'm not sure there's a big difference between early 40s and late 30s. But anyway, yeah, whatever. The point is I fought a battle with the flu and I won. Or, well, or at least I didn't know. Okay, I lost. I lost. It was all flu. It was. The flu dominated me for, for days. There was. I didn't even get a shot in. But I got back up at the end of it.

[Rob Bernstein]

Yeah, rounds. And you did, you did an unvaccinated flu flight. Flu flight. So it didn't stand a chance.

[Dave Smith]

I've seen like, I remember, like when I was a kid, yeah, I did it unbacked, so I did pure blood. But I remember when I was a kid, like, I grew up in Brooklyn where it was kind of rough and every now and you'd see someone like, almost like get beat up, but like they got like jumped by two or three guys and they get beat up and the guys like hit him a few times, then they all kind of like run away. And then like the guy who just got beat up, he'll like get up and I'll go, that all you got? That all you got? And you know, it's just, I mean, you Lost the fight. But you save, like, the littlest bit of pride being like, I took the best you could give me, and I was still there asking for more. That's kind of what I did to the flu. I did that. It was rough, dude. The first. I made it, like, four days without getting it and just taking care of the family, which was tough, but it is. You know, dads will relate to this. It's one of these things. It makes you feel good about yourself, and you're a dad, feel like every now and then, your wife has to, like, go for the day, and you got to take care of the baby for the whole day. But then at the end, you, like, fed her three meals, you know, like, pretty good. And, you know, it was never right. And in fact, they're not supposed to eat three meals. They're supposed to eat, like, six little meals. And. And then you realize you fed them food that is not safe for babies eat. But the point is that, like, you did it, and you kind. So I was doing that. I was getting through it. And it's awful. When you got little kids and your wife and they're all so sick and miserable, then you're just like, I wish I could take it all. You know, just let them be comfortable, and I could take all. But then you get it, and then you're like, all right, give 20 of this back to my wife. Like, leave the kids alone. But, like, Jesus christ, I'll take 80. Is that reasonable? But anyway, it's good to be back. A lot happens this week, evidently, so we've got a lot to talk about, but it's good to be back and talking with you. Rob, how was your week of health that you take for granted?

[Rob Bernstein]

Yeah, it was. It was fun. I was out in Colorado. I did three shows. Are all good people showed up for my Sunday afternoon day drinker, which I was impressed by. Yeah, sold out that. That little venue. Also, the nice thing about doing small venues is you can sell them out. And for everyone at home, go to Robbie the Fire. All one word on YouTube. I got the first episode of Porching Out. A lot of work went into that second episode coming out hopefully in the next two weeks. So go give that a watch. It's funny.

[Dave Smith]

Hell, yeah. Absolutely. All right, so let's. Let's talk about a few things. Oh, and then, of course, comicdab smith.com me and Rob will be back out on the road in. In just a couple weeks here now in the new year. So Philadelphia and Portland, Oregon, I believe, is coming up in January. Comicdavesmith.com okay, so I guess the first thing we should address, and I'll address a little bit of the. I don't know, I've been, I've seen, I've been criticized over this, which is, I mean, it's just seems beyond silly to address. But the, the point that's more important is that when we left last episode on Wednesday, I had mentioned at one point, Dave DeCamp texted me in the middle of the episode that, you know, he had sources telling him that Trump was going to announce an expansion or a declaration of war against Venezuela. Tucker Carlson had On the Record, I believe, with Judge Napolitano and said the same thing. I have a couple sources, you know, who are people, you know, I have a couple of people who are like, close to the White House, couple of people who are reporters who have sources there. I had heard the same thing after we got off the show. You know, I texted some people had heard the same thing. And then of course, at the end of the day, Donald Trump, like, either trolled us or walked it back himself or something. He ended up after all of that, just doing, like. We interrupt your regularly scheduled program to bring you a special announcement from the President of the United States. To announce nothing. To just get on there and say that the economy is real good for a while. I'm not, I'm genuinely not sure what exactly happened there. I don't think it's been made clear. It is, there's, there's different possibilities, which are that, you know, Donald Trump wanted to make, you know, I don't know that he intentionally, like, gave the signal that he was going to do that so that some people would look bad or something like that, or that he was, you know, people have speculated that he was trolling. People have speculated that he was going to make an announcement about Venezuela and then backed off of that. I don't know if any of that's true or he never planned on doing it. I do just know that whatever the answer is in any of the possibilities, I don't know, Rob. I'm just so over this shit, dude. It's just like Donald Trump's just gotten to a point with me. I don't know, man. You guys, I, you know, my job here is to call him like I see him. And I know that this ruffles feathers when I'm, I'm as tough on Donald Trump as I have been for the last, basically since the summer. That's just how I feel about it. I'm just over this shit. I don't find it entertaining or clever or anything. It's like, so this is the game. It. It's kind of. It reminded me of. There was one scene in the Office Rob, where, like, Michael Scott used to, as a prank, fire people, and then they would get very upset and then he'd go, gotcha. And, like, he does it to Pam and she's. He's like, oh, look at your face. I got you. You totally thought. And she's like, yeah, I thought, because you said it. So I thought. And like, that's kind of how I feel with Trump. You're over there. Yeah. Oh, look, you guys panicked. He was going to start another war goes, huh? You committed several acts of war and said you were going to start a new war. So, yeah, we went, hey, that's sure not a good idea. Oh, you panic it. Like, how dumb is this, Rob? It's just like, too. I don't know, the whole thing is just too ridiculous. Like, okay, you still, by the way, by. In actual reality, Donald Trump has already launched a war on Venezuela. He's committing acts of war. The question is how far he's going to take this. And to just, like, what all of that resulted in was essentially just Donald Trump being Joe Biden again, telling everyone that the economy is great, even though none of you feel that way. It's just because you're so stupid that you don't recognize that tariffs have transformed the world and made it better for the economy, even though no one feels that in their life. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is indecloud in the cloud is your online cannabis dispensary. They got gummies, curated flower pre rolls and zero sugar, zero calorie THC sodas. All federally legal, THC DEA certified, lab tested, and it's all shipped discreetly. So if you are 21 or older, make sure to go visit in the Cloud Co and use the promo code PROBLEM for 25% off and free shipping. All right, let's get back into the show.

[Rob Bernstein]

Well, if we're, if we're just speculating, because that's all you can do with Donald Trump is try and invent reasons for what might be going on, why he might be teasing announcements or going to war with Venezuela. I do think a lot of times they pretend like they have a plan and they tease things to see how the market might react. And I think on that day, he saw that. Wow. I really don't think we have the support we need for this. And the backdrop of it is also that I saw an article in the Journal today that Cube is really not doing well. They're obviously lying over the drug thing. I don't even understand why we care about Cuba at the moment. But it could be that, you know, they have no reason to rush stronger military engagement because they see a pathway to, you know, I guess, whatever their agenda is. So they figured, you know, we might as well sit on this one for now.

[Dave Smith]

You know, I remember there was one detail in, in Scott Horton's book, wonderful book, Provoked, which is, as I've said many times, the best book that's been written on the. The Cold War, the new Cold War with Russia and the lead up to the war in Ukraine. And one of the things I remember thinking was really interesting because I really did my best to like, you know, because this book was first off, it was like the best book on the topic. And it's also, if you've seen it, I mean, it's a huge. It's a brick of a book with thousands of. Of citations. And I did my best to really not only read the whole thing, you know, Scott sent it to me a couple years in advance before it was the finished version. Not just read it, but really do all the research and go through all the things. One of the things, it was just like a little nugget I thought was really interesting was that the big push in 2008 at the Bucharest summit, when it was first formally announced that Ukraine was going to join NATO, there was a lot of opposition to this. I believe, if I'm remembering correctly, it was really. Merkel in Germany was like the biggest opposition. I believe the French might have been against it as well, but they were like, hey, hey, hey, don't announce this because, like, dude, you're going to provoke a real fight with the Russians here. And obviously they're a little bit more concerned about it than we are, because actually they're the ones who got. That's kind of in their backyard. They were like, hey, we don't want to. Like, you know, if you think you're Germany, you got a Poland and then Ukraine and Russia, you don't really want to fucking be provoking a big fight here. And anyway, the point is that from what I could deduce from all of Scott's footnotes there and the arguments he's making, it does seem like the overwhelming driving factor of it that that pushed them to announce that. That Ukraine was going to join NATO at a NATO Summit was George W. Bush legacy building. And that's just like really the, that the administration was really like, yeah, but you know what, the Iraq war was supposed to be our legacy and the Afghanistan war was supposed to be our legacy. And then the economy was supposed to be our legacy. And what, what's it going to be, Katrina? So like we need something here. And it's just, it's kind of a lesson almost in like basic public choice theory that like, no, dude, this is like the, it just in the same way that we all recognize that in a free market system there are economic incentives. There are, you know what I mean? There are, there are self interested people who are working. Nobody really thinks. If you go to the restaurant on the corner and you buy a meal and you go. No one really thinks like, oh, that guy made me a meal because he really cares about me. He really cares about the community. He really wants to feed people in the community. Like, even though that might be true on some level, you're like, no, he's running a business. We know he's trying to succeed and make money at his business. There's nothing wrong with that. Like he's trying to give his family a good life or whatever. Well, the same thing, the same like self interested incentive structure exists in government. And, and think of an example like Joe Biden refusing to resign. That wasn't in the DNC's interest. It wasn't in the Democratic Party's interest, certainly wasn't in the nation's interest, but it definitely was in Joe Biden's interest. It was definitely in Jill Biden's interest. It was, you know, in Hunter Biden's interest. So like, anyway, Marco Rubio's Cuban. This is my point. That's what I'm getting to with all of this. And I will say, like, don't underestimate how much that might be a factor in this. Like he. If there was one guy you could point to who is the singular biggest influence on this policy, it's Marco Rubio. This has been his policy. From all reporting, he's been boxed out of Ukraine, he's been boxed out of the Middle East. He is the fucking Secretary of State and the national security adviser. And they had to give him something. They had to give him some toy to chew on and it happens to be Venezuela. And as you pointed out, Rob, they let it slip a lot that this does seem to be very motivated by Cuba. And a lot of Cuban Americans, especially the Republican types, which is most of them, they really do have, understandably you know, I don't think they should use our government for it, but they do have a real vendetta against that Cuban government. And they really want that thing to fall and to open it up to, you know.

[Rob Bernstein]

Well, I think the problem at the moment is, I mean, typical of sanctions, or in this case, I guess, Venezuela oil money is not making its way to Cuba. I don't think they're helping the. The Cuban civilians.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, yeah, no, that's right. The. The track record of America liberating your country is the worst thing for your country. So Don, don't think just because America could ever convince you that there are some people suffering in a country. It's not therefore we ought to go liberate them, you know, with our army.

[Rob Bernstein]

I also think they just have a problem with the lie that they're using to pitch the war is just not compelling enough. So I think we all realize that this. It's clearly not over drugs, but let's just say that it was over drugs. And let's imagine that drugs weren't coming in from other countries and literally all cocaine was coming from Venezuela. And that's where the fentanyl problem was. Let's just imagine that that was true. Drug addicts are not supposed to have so much sway in our society that we're going to war to save our nation's drug addicts. I understand if you want to pretend you gotta go to war. Cause someone else is gonna destroy you or someone else supposedly has nuclear bombs. There's a lot of sales. But it's usually, we can't continue to be a country and we won't have freedom or we're not gonna be safe. Those are threats that people go to war over. Hey, you gotta save the drug addict at the end of the street. Firstly, there's better ways to spend money than having our young man killed to go save that guy. And it's probably, you know, spend the money on a rehab or find the way for the guy to have a job. But the idea of going to war to save drug addicts, it's just. I don't think anyone's buying that.

[Dave Smith]

Oh, it's so absurd. And in the same way that, like, one of the similarities is true with a lot of these wars, but at the same way, like with the war in Iraq, where they had this kind of like, is like the justification depending on what week or what month you were talking about, like, the justification for the war in Iraq was like, Saddam is developing weapons of mass destruction. Saddam is friends with the Terrorists. And he was in on 9, 11. If we overthrow Saddam, democracy will sweep the region. We're going to liberate the people of Iraq. We're going to bring, you know, voting rights and women's rights and all these. And before you go, you're like, yeah, but that's like seven different things, which, by the way, none of them were true in that example. But, like, why do you need seven different things if the first one wasn't bullshit? You know what I mean? It's like they pick mult. And so even with Venezuela, it's like, right, Rob? It's like, no, we're doing this because the drugs. We're doing this because of the drugs, Rob. They're narco terrorists that kill a hundred thousand Americans a year. I think, like, you point out something where it's like, yeah, like 4% of the drugs come in from Venezuela. And they go, yeah, because they, they, they flooded our country with immigrants intentionally. They opened the prisons and flooded them all in here. Like, okay, but is there any evidence that that actually happened? That they took the oil, Rob, they took the oil and the land from us. Oh, it's, they're in bed with Iran or they're, you know, something with Cuba or whatever. And you're like, okay, why are you giving me seven different justifications, by the way? All of which are bullshit. All of which are bullshit. So anyway, again, look, I'll say this because there was. I had one, and this was literally as the flu was, was coming on and overtaking me. But so I got off the show yesterday, on Wednesday, and I posted a couple tweets, one just trashing Donald Trump and what a disaster he's been. And then I had a long post basically talking about how Donald Trump, part of the reason that his base loved him was that he was critical of the war party, and he sold out to the war party at every single turn. And then I said, apparently, tonight, or I said, tonight, apparently, Donald Trump's going to announce some type of escalation in Venezuela. Just another example of him, you know, turning his back on his own supporters in favor of the war party, something to that effect. And I then I, you know, took some Motrin and passed out for hours, then woke up and saw that he hadn't, you know, done anything about the war. And so I deleted the tweet. And then a bunch of people, I mean, this is just how sad it all is. A bunch of the goddamn Zio bots are now trying to jump on and go, oh, look, David, to Eat his words and delete his tweet. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I deleted the tweet. I said, apparently, tonight he's going to announce some escalation. And he didn't. So, yeah, that's right. He didn't do that tonight. So I took the tweet down. I still stand by everything else I said in the tweet. Like, this is their big. And then they're trying. I watched, like, a few of them try to do this, go, look, Dave got the war in Iran wrong. And then he got this war wrong, too. You're like, did any get any war wrong? What are you talking about? Getting a war wrong is like supporting a war and then finding out the pretext for it was based off lies and a bunch of people got killed going, I didn't get the war in Iran wrong. I got it completely right. They all go, where's the World War Three you promised us? I never fucking said it was going to be World War 3. I said, you're risking catastrophe for absolutely no reason. By the way, Rob, other news reported by ABC the other day, Netanyahu meeting with Donald Trump. At the end of the month, the topic seems to be getting us to strike Iran more because they're developing intercontinental ballistic missiles, according to Netanyahu. So where are we with this whole thing? Oh, yeah, they're three weeks away from whatever weapon Netanyahu made up. So it's just. Anyway, I guess it's just funny. It's like, after having the goddamn track record that me and you have had, Rob, over these last years, they're trying to make that like, oh, look, you got it wrong. You were worried about another catastrophic war, and then you suspected that the reporting that Donald Trump was announcing an escalation might be correct. Okay, okay. Yes. Those are the big issues on my track record that I've gotten wrong. And your favorite Israel supporting Hawk, only got everything else wrong. They. I got those two wrong. But your favorite war, Hawk got Russiagate, Covid, the vaccine, the Ukraine war, the Gaza war. They got all of that wrong. Okay. Anyway, I just. I see, like, it's like they're pilot. It's like after years of this stuff now, it's like the stuff they pile on me about just seems to get more and more ridiculous. And you're like, guys, is this really what you're going with? I said, apparently, he's announcing an escalation, and then he didn't. Okay, you got me. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Cowboy Colostrum. If you want to fix your gut, make your hair healthier and stronger and add some glow to your skin in 2026, you need to add Colostrum to your daily routine. Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality bovine colostrum available in the U.S. cowboy colostrum is 100% made in America from 100% American grass fed cows. Unlike other Colostrum brands, Cowboy Colostrum is true first day whole colostrum. Rich in bioactives and growth factors. Cowboy is easy to drink and is made with delicious natural ingredients and no artificial flavors. You simply add a scoop of their chocolate, Madagascar vanilla, matcha or strawberry into your coffee or smoothie and feel great the entire day. And for a limited time, our listeners can get 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboy colostrum.com Dave and use the promo code Dave at checkout. That's 25% off when you use the promo code Dave at checkout@cowboy colostrum.com Dave all right, let's get back into the show. All right, let's we got to talk about this Turning Point USA event over the weekend, Rob, which was quite something. I don't know how much of it you saw. ROB it did look, I guess was a big event, a lot of big speakers in the conservative world and obviously what was highlighted right away was just, you know, the, the theme of politics over the last couple months, which has really just been like the, the deep divisions in the right with, especially with Turning Point being like right at the center of all of it. And you know, I I talking about these things. There's almost like a tendency here to like to get lost in some of the gossip of all of it. Like did you hear Ben Shapiro and Megyn Kelly aren't friends anymore and they're both fighting over Candace Owens and this or that. And I really, I really, I wish to avoid as much of that as possible. I just want to talk about what I find really interesting here. And the most interesting part of this to me was that J.D. vance comes in and we're going to play some some of his comments here in a second. So that I found that I found very, very interesting. But so the event starts off Rob, with, with Ben Shapiro, I guess. Erica Kirk speaks and then Ben Shapiro goes next and Ben Shapiro delivers. What I don't know. Rob, did you watch this, this speech?

[Rob Bernstein]

A fair amount of it. I watched, I watched some clips, I read the summary and I watched about the first 10 minutes.

[Dave Smith]

It is just the. Again, forget even the substance of it. I want to get into the substance, obviously, but just almost like my first takeaway on it. It is like, it is the, the anti Carnegie like doctrine that like how to lose friends and lose influence on people. I mean, he just starts off the event by just chastising everybody in the whiniest possible manner for not condemning Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes. And everybody's a coward who won't immediately jump up to condemn these people and lecturing everybody about their obligation to the truth. I mean, I just, I found it like I couldn't believe that he settled on going in this direction that there wasn't just like, like on some level, just like the dude part of you that just goes like, yeah, but don't come off like such a whiny bitch through the whole thing. I don't. Look, I'm just saying this is honestly my, my first reaction to it. Like, I just couldn't believe that's how you thought you'd come out and fight this thing. I also remind it, remind me how Douglas Murray approached our debate. Like you thought this would be the way to do it. The best way would be. I am here. Let me let you know, everyone, I am on my high horse. First of all, this high horse is above you. You're down here, I'm up here. Repudiate him. Nick Fuentes hurt my feelings. Candace Owens is a conspiracy theorist. Where are you? Like, as if those are the issues of our time or something. Like, it's just too goofy. Sorry, Rob, go ahead.

[Rob Bernstein]

I also just felt there were some remarks that he made that I actually thought were very good advice and I wish he would follow it. And so when he was making statements about just making sure that you're being truthful and honest and with the job of what the people are supposed to be doing in this role, it felt a little bit like the cnn this is an apple where they were trying to advertise the fact that they're the truth tellers. And I feel like Ben Shapiro would not have to be doing all the whiny stuff if he was probably more honest on the Israel topic. And I think it was a little bit remarkable to hear him speaking about covering everything in a truthful way and that that's the obligation because that's not what he does. And then I'm sure we're gonna get into the censorship aspect. But for all of his talk about not asking questions and not just. It's like, well, that's why you were wrong on Covid, buddy. And that's why you just keep shilling for the regime. And that's why you're just pitching these topic talking points while telling everyone else that they shouldn't be allowed to have an audience because you're the only truth teller.

[Dave Smith]

No, no, absolutely, dude. And the, the CNN this is an apple thing is a great comparison. You know, I forgot about that. But this was, what was it like 2017 or 2018? Something like that. But it was right in the height of Donald Trump's first term. The fake news, you know, label had been, I think first the corporate press used it, but then Donald Trump reappropriated it and started calling all of them the fake news. And then it's the same thing. CNN runs this commercial, they go, look, this is an apple. Here at cnn we call it an apple. Now you have a right to call it banana. You got a right to say what you want. But we, our job is just to tell the truth. It's like, look, man, there's no argument here where one side is saying we're against the truth. Yes, Ben Shapiro, we also believe in telling the truth. The whole argument here is who's telling the truth. You know, and it's just something, it's funny where you think as like an effective tactic which is so transparent and obvious where you're just going to come in and be like, okay, so first of all, I place myself in the seat of arbiter of truth. I'm just the one who tells objectives of truth. Now let's start from there. Like actually no CNN or Ben Shapiro. That's not what we're going to start from here. Let's, you hit on a lot of really good points there. Let's, let's play one of these clips because we have a couple here. Let's, let's check in on Ben Shapiro.

[Ben Shapiro]

Candace Owens decides to spend every day since the murder of Charlie Kirk. So if Candace Owens decides to spend every day since the murder of Charlie Kirk casting aspersions at TP USA and the people who work here who worked with Charlie every single day, his best friends to cast aspersions at Mikey McCoy and Andrew Colvin and Blake Neff and Tyler Boyer and yes at Erica Kirk and to imply or outright claim complicity in a cover up over Charlie's murder, to spew absolutely baseless trash implicating everyone from French intelligence to Mossad to members of TPUSA in Charlie's murder or a cover up in that murder, then we as people with a microphone have a moral obligation to call that out by name.

[Dave Smith]

Okay, let's, let's pause it right here because, you know, I don't know, I find, I find this to be so interesting. It's such a, such a goddamn tactic, and it's one that we've seen, you know, used by a few really, really annoying people here where this is. Okay, so this is the line they're going with, keeping. Keep in mind a few things here. Number one, I mean, I don't know, Rob, I think I've been saying this for at least two straight years now on the show. And I say this as somebody who's done about as many public debates on the topic of Israel as anyone. I think. I think just about as many as anyone. And it is amazing how much throughout this whole thing, these guys want to talk about anything except the issue. Anything else, man, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about the fact that Israel just destroyed Gaza with US Complete support? Are we talking about that? Are we talking about whether or not we should be allowing Netanyahu to come here and try to pitch us on getting involved in another war again on their behalf? Are we talking about that? No, no, we're talking about anything other than that. What did Daryl Cooper say on Tucker Carlson's show two years ago? You're a moral coward, Rob, if you don't call that out. Like, what type of tactic is this? Ben Shapiro and all you guys, all the Zionists who I hear saying this. Like, again, you don't get to just put yourself in this chair like up here on a mountain where you're the arbiter of what everybody else is supposed to talk about. How about fuck you. You don't get to decide that it is incumbent on me that my role must be Internet hall monitor of the dissidents, and I must walk around to all of the dissidents who oppose the policy of us, you know, that US Support Israel's genocide. I must go to everyone who's against that and go, you did a racist, you did an anti Semitic. You did a conspiracy theory. You'd connected dots here that shouldn't have been connected. That was wrong. Alex Jones, you were out over your skis here. Candace Owens, you made a claim you couldn't back up here. Why, why the. Is that my responsibility? Why can't I just say, I'll tell you how I feel. I want to talk about the issue here, the thing that matters in every goddamn one of these things. If I was at, you know, I wasn't at this Thing I couldn't have gone even if they invited me. I was sick as a dog this week. But I wasn't at this thing. But, Rob, if I was there and I was given a speech, what would my speech have been about? My speech would have been about the US Supporting Israel and what Israel's doing to the Palestinians and why we shouldn't be doing this, why this is evil and this is not in our national interest, something like that. I'd have gone there and talked about the issue. This is one of the things I said to Josh Hammer's face and my first thing I said at the debate that Charlie Kirk had me on, it's like, look at these guys. All they ever want to do is talk about everyone's character. The character of every person who's a critic of Israel must be smeared. And you. Why am I supposed to help you do that when I disagree with the policy to begin with? Like. And when you. You go first. Ben Shapiro, you moral coward. Where are you calling out Smotrich, the goddamn finance minister for the government that you support? Israel has been openly calling for genocide and ethnic cleansing for two years. Is Ben Shapiro calling that out left and right? No, but he's going to lecture us that we must have the moral clarity. Like, I have to be in the business of calling Candace Owens out. But, like, Rob, isn't the bigger lie so obvious there? Dude, your beef isn't with Candace. Your beef is not with Candace being a conspiracy theorist on Charlie Kirk. You're not even being honest about what your problem with her is. Is that why you fired her, Ben Shapiro, because she had theories about how Charlie Kirk got murdered? Or did you f. Did you fire her two years before that when she said, sure is messed up the way Israel's killing all these babies? Oh, that's right. Is your beef with Tucker that he had Nick Fuentes on? Were you guys cool before that? No, your beef with Tucker is that he doesn't support the US Unconditionally supporting Israel. So why don't you tell the truth about what your beef actually is, and then we could all talk about the issue that matters. This is all just a giant fucking distraction technique that you're going to race in there. You're the dude who's been supporting a genocide for the last two years. Not on the moral high ground to get up here and go, there's a conspiracist amongst us, and you all have a responsibility to call out the conspiracists. Get the fuck outta here. Ben Shapiro. I Don't know anything.

[Rob Bernstein]

Yeah, no, you're 100% right. I didn't even really realize how much of a distraction it was by reframing and avoiding the Israel issue to hone in on. That's not what we're discussing. What we need to discuss is whether or not people are calling out Candace. And you're right, it's not the bigger issue. The bigger issue is the actual policies of what's taking place in Israel and Gaza. What really just spoke to me, it's, it's the, it's the censorship of. There's some topics that shouldn't be explored and people need to condemn people if they are exploring the topics. And then on top of that, this just does feel like the very woke. It's not enough to not be racist, but you also have to be an anti racist. And like, you have to, you know, you have to like pledge your allegiance to causes and you have to like actively pursue those causes. And I don't think anyone has like the moral obligation. Like if I'm over here and I'm really interested in the way the government's spending money and I want to talk about the Federal Reserve and then you start yelling at me, well, I'm morally reprehensible cuz I'm not talking about these other things. I mean, that's like a more advanced form of censorship where you're like telling me the thing that I'm interested in I shouldn't be talking about. What I really need to do is take up your cause, pledge allegiance to that and go after that instead of what I think's important, which is like a more advanced degree of like, it's.

[Dave Smith]

Even worse than that. Right, because that's why I think you had it right the first time when you said it's that it's not enough to not be racist, you must be actively anti racist. Which was the creed of one of those woke black studies authors. Because what it. Because think about it like this, Rob. It's not even Megyn Kelly, for example, one of the people Ben Shapiro calls out and calls a coward. Megyn Kelly isn't saying, hey, I'm focusing on this. I'm not taking an opinion on who killed Charlie Kirk. Megyn Kelly is coming out and going, I'm convinced Tyler Robinson killed Charlie Kirk and there is no broader conspiracy here. She's taking the opinion that Ben Shapiro wants her to take, but she's not condemning Candace for taking a different position. So it's not even not talking about it. It's that you have to talk about it. And then you also must condemn all of the people who Ben Shapiro decides has gone too far. Now, again, you know, to your point here, because there's, there's a few different layers to all of this. Now, to the point that you made, and you're absolutely right that there is this, like, look, obviously there's a version of hiding behind just asking questions that would be like, bullshit, where, like, you're implying a thing that you have no reason to be implying. Hiding behind questions. Like, you know what I'm saying? There's something to that. I can't even think of a good example. But, like, you know, you know, if you were like, if someone in the corporate media was like, did Vladimir Putin help Donald Trump win the election in 2020? We're asking the question here. But you're like, yeah, but you're implying it also, and you have no reason for this. Like, there is a version of that. But of course, there's also a version of going, of mocking just asking questions that is no different than, than mocking doing your own research, which was, you know, Jimmy Dore had the great bit about, during COVID they'd literally mock you for reading. They'd mock you for doing research and looking into what was going on. And that was because they were full of. And actually, it didn't take a genius to do their own research and figure that out. And so obviously, like, there is an example of just asking questions that would be implying something that you don't really have evidence for. But there's also a version of dismissing just asking questions that is shutting down the idea of asking questions, which often is very important. Sometimes it's important to raise questions that you don't even have the answer to for sure. That's usually the first step in getting the answer to those questions is to raise them. And so that's, there's something devious about that and just shutting down, like, where the legitimate inquiry is and where it's not. But, you know, Ben, again, as you pointed out before, you know, it's like when these people try to go, oh, you guys, you know, you guys thought the war with Iran was going to turn into World War 3 or something like that, or they just make that up. But there's a reason why people want to do that, because track record really does matter. And I think it's a big part of our strength on this show. And so people want to chip away at that if they feel like they can. But again, like you, you already said it, Rob, it's like, hey, Ben, you got Covid all wrong. Like, you were still over a year and a half into Covid, you were still telling people, calling them dopes who didn't want to get the vaccine. And by the way, go look at that. How many children do we know died now? I think we got 11 kids who died from the vaccine on record over the last month or so. How Ben Shapiro do on that very real conspiracy that was Covid. How do you do on the lab leak? How do you do on lockdowns? How do you do on the vaccine? Okay, so when you fail the biggest ones, forgive me if I don't care for you to lecture me on the methodology of when we're allowed to ask questions and do our own research and have conspiracy theories. Well, there are conspiracies. All this shit just comes down to methodology. That's all. That's all it's about. It's like, do you have a good argument here? Do you, do you have a good case for your theory or not? Yeah. Let's play the end of this clip and then the. We'll go to the other one.

[Ben Shapiro]

So when Candace Owens says, I don't know. No, but I know that is. And we are all more retarded for having heard it.

[Dave Smith]

Okay, so, you know, the only thing before we go to this next clip, I guess the, the thing I would just say there is, like, what you may note throughout the whole thing is that also he, he doesn't take apart any of Candace's, like, arguments or claims. He doesn't. He, he mentions that once she said, I don't know, but I know no or something. Or I, you know, I don't know. No, but I know or whatever. It's like, okay, can you, like, I don't even know what he's referring to. Can you give me the context on that? Like, what do you, what do you mean by ironically?

[Rob Bernstein]

That's actually what he. By dismissing Candace.

[Dave Smith]

Right.

[Rob Bernstein]

That's literally what he's doing. He's going, I, I'm, I'm not taking apart what she's saying. I just know her to be wrong. So I just know now he's making the same argument.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, like what? I mean, like what? He didn't take on one thing. She's saying this. And she's got this wrong here, which is like, if she is fine, but anyway. And I don't, you know, again, I just, I guess, like, I've felt this way for a long time, and I, you know, I, I in years past, where I didn't have as big an audience or the show wasn't as big as it is now. But I got into, you know, I, I platformed back in like the height of wokeism. You know, I had like a lot of the alt right guys on the show and had Nick Fuentes on the show back in, back in the day and stuff and, and I was still like, you know, I still had kind of like one foot in the comedy world, which was like a very woke world. Like it was crazy to people. I mean, I, you know, I, I, you know, whatever. I wasn't like, I, I had been doing stand up comedy for like 11, 12 years or something like that in New York City. So I was like established enough on the scene that like people knew who I was. And now all of a sudden I had like all these lefty comedians who just hated my guts over the fact that I talked to some people who they disagreed with. And then in the libertarian world there was like a whole woke leftist section of them. They were all outraged by it. And there would always be these constant demands that I denounce this person or denounce that person. And it would be people who, you know, like, I have a lot of strong disagreements with. But they had come on the show, we had disagreed, we had been respectful and you know, discussed it like gentlemen and just, you know, disagreed about stuff and then agreed about some other stuff. And then there'd be this call from some woke leftist that I have to publicly denounce them now. And like half the time, Rob, it literally would be like a 22 year old with blue hair going like, Dave, you must denounce. You're like, hey, young lady, you don't fucking dictate who I must denounce on command. Like, I'm not your fucking trained monkey. And don't like, I'm not treating you like you're mine. So definitely don't treat me like I'm yours. Who the fuck are you? Like, I would. So I always just refuse. Like I'm not denouncing anyone. And then like, I just don't see what. This was always the position when talking to woke retards. But it's Ben Shapiro, a woke retard. So it's the same thing. You'd go, hey, listen man, if you want to ask me, like, if you want to be an adult and treat me like an equal and look me in the eyes and ask me how I feel about something, I will gladly tell you. Criticize me for all the things you want. I don't think I hold back how I feel on issues of politics. I'm happy to talk about controversial issues, how I feel about racial relations or how I feel about whatever, you know. So I'll tell you how I feel and you can, I don't know, you can judge me based off that. But the fact that you need me to go denounce somebody else when it's already clear where we disagree, that's just lame. And all Ben Shapiro is doing is just a different version of that. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Mars men. Look, I'm 42 and I know some of you guys in your late 30s, 30s, getting into your 40s, you know, you start to notice that you don't have the same recovery, the same energy and stamina that you used to have when you were younger. Well, a lot of guys are trying Mars Men for that very reason right now. It supports healthy T levels, energy and stamina. It's made in the USA third party tested and it comes with a 90 day money back guarantee. So there's no risk. The worst case, you don't absolutely love it and you get your money back. But over 91 of users reported higher energy levels. Thousands of guys are feeling incredible results. Just out the reviews on the website for yourself, if you're looking for more consistent natural energy, stronger physical performance and recovery in the gym, make sure to check out Mars Men. And the way to do that is to go to MengotoMars.com and for a limited time, our listeners get 60% off for life and three free gifts. When you use the promo code problem, that's men, go to mars.com promo code problem for 60% off for life and three free gifts. All right, right, let's get back into the show. All right, here, let's play. Let's play the next Ben Shapiro clip.

[Ben Shapiro]

Well, today I want to talk about the future of the country and the future of this country. This amazing country relies on the future of the conservative movement. It relies on what TPUSA defines as its core mission. Freedom, free markets and limited government. And most of all, most of the future of this country rely.

[Dave Smith]

No, no, dude, no. That's what we do. No, no. Freedom and free markets and limited government. Ben Shapiro, you don't get to just talk like you're Ron Paul all of a sudden. And by the way, what did you say about Ron Paul when he was running for president? Oh, you called him a Jew hater, a racist, a part of the alt right, an evil bigot. You did the same. You demanded everybody denounce Ron Paul. Right. You don't believe in liberty or free markets because we couldn't be a world empire that would prop up Israel if we had that. You need the Federal Reserve and this crazy easy monetary system in order to fight all of these wars. Tell me about how you believe in liberty. Limited government.

[Rob Bernstein]

Yeah, limited government with a carve out for wars.

[Dave Smith]

No, Rob, all Ben Shapiro wants. Tell me if you don't find this to be a coherent worldview. Ben Shapiro wants a limited government that is only powerful enough to be a.

[Rob Bernstein]

World empire and then censor people that criticize it. That's it. That's the.

[Dave Smith]

Yes, that's right. And also probably. Yeah, we have to shut down people who criticize it. Also, you have a moral obligation to denounce any of the people who oppose this gigantic regime. But yes, Rob, there is one defining characteristic of governments that become global empires is that they're usually not small. You're usually large. Turns out it takes a lot of resources to be a world empire, Rob. Anyway, here, let's keep playing real small.

[Rob Bernstein]

But just empower Oracle to buy up everything to make sure that there's good censorship on behalf of Israel that will preach wars and then fund the wars. But other than that, we could be really small.

[Dave Smith]

Teeny of.

[Ben Shapiro]

This country relies on truth. This country relies on truth because victory, true, real, lasting victory, cannot be achieved without truth. Victory without truth is victory for a lie, and that is no victory at all. And unity without truth is no unity. It is merely solidarity and falsehood. The conservative movement is also in danger from charlatans who claim to speak in the name of principle, but actually traffic in conspiracism and dishonesty, who offer nothing but bile and despair, who seek to undermine fundamental principles of conservatism by championing enervation and grievance. These people are frauds, they are grifters, and they do not deserve your time. And they are something worse than that. A danger to the only movement capable of stopping the left from wrecking the country wholesale.

[Dave Smith]

Wow. There you go. Okay, so, yeah, I don't know what, sit here and grade Ben Shapiro's prose or anything like that. Rob, if we unify over disagreement, then the only agreement we've unified over has been to disagree, and that is not agreement at all. Yes, that's good. Very good point, Ben Shapiro. Wow, that was like your Obama impression or something like that, where you just like say absolutely nothingness. You know, empty phrases that go like, oh, this is like. It's like, literally designed to trick dumb people. And don't get me wrong, I'm a dumb person. So, like, I'm Cap. You almost hear. Feel yourself going like, oh, he said something like, like, that kind of rhymed. That sounded good or something. But then you're like, oh, yeah, there's nothing to that. Yeah. We all agree telling the truth is important. You know, Ben Shapiro is gonna say that we, we have to, we have to come together over telling the truth, and we can't jump into these conspiracy theories or whatever. Again. How did Ben Shapiro do, unlike the last, like, I don't know, like six major conspiracies. How did he do in real time? Or like, I don't know, man. It's like, you know, I guess maybe this is. Tell me if this makes sense, Rob. I guess maybe this is a little part of the frustration here. And maybe not to make this personal, but it's hard not to. But it's almost like. So Ben Shapiro presents it here as, look, obviously the same thing with Mark Levin and all of them. The, the genocide that was just committed in 4k that we all funded is not even relevant here. That's not even like a topic of discussion. That is, that's like a minor little part of this whole story, not even worth bringing up in your speech. The real thing here, like, the issue is that Candace Owens is going after these wild conspiracy theories or that Tucker Carlson normalized Nick Fuentes, who is a horrible Jew hater and the heart. You know, like, that's the real issue here is. Come on, can't we all agree that, you know, people putting together wild conspiracies without evidence is wrong? And, and anti Semitism and bigotry is wrong? Like, can't we at least agree with that? And it's like, even if, like, that has some people on the surface convinced that, like, okay, yeah, I guess we, we could agree there. You know, what. What are you almost left with then? So are you sit. You're sitting there and saying like, well, hey, almost implicitly, Rob, if the big issue isn't Israel, Gaza and our support for it, and the big issue is like, Nick Fuentes being anti Semite or Candace being a conspiracy theorist, Isn't the implication there that it would be reasonable if they weren't an anti Semite, if they weren't crazy conspiracy theories, if they just opposed this policy and had, like, legit arguments for that, that would be a different story. Right? That's almost like, obviously implied here. Okay. Well, who does that apply to, Rob? Just. Just saying. I mean, like, look, and by the way, I'm not calling Nick an anti Semite. I'm not calling Candace a wild conspiracy theorist. Like, you know what I'm saying? I'm just saying, like, if that is Ben Shapiro's position on this, that it's like, that's what's so beyond the pale. It's like, okay, dude, well, there's actually a whole lot of us who don't really do too much of the. The conspiracy, you know, like, true crime stuff and aren't like, putting together theories about who killed who or something like that. There's people like us who don't talk about the Jews or blame, like, the Jews and just have a legitimate beef with a lobby and a government and members of our own government. And I've been called an anti Semitic Hamas supporter every day for two years. So, like, I don't know, dude, you're sitting here and making the demand that I must condemn everybody who's also disagrees with this policy who you deem as like a step out of bounds. Meanwhile, anyone who opposes this policy at all is treated like they're out of bounds. We all get labeled with all this same shit all the time. So, no, like, I don't know. That just seems totally reasonable to me to be like, no, how about I don't have to? Just because you are like a tattletale nerd doesn't mean you get to force the rest of us to be one. I'm not the hall monitor of fucking Alex Jones and Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson. It's not my job to sit here and I must speak out every time I don't agree with them on something or I think they're out over their skis. No, I. I think all of those people that I just named are correct on the most important issue actually right now. And so I'm just going to talk about that and criticize the regime and people who support it, like you. Seems reasonable to me.

[Rob Bernstein]

It's the Ben Shapiro censorship tour.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, really. And I mean, again with always, Always, Rob. As I will say, like, like, I guess what, like, if we're trying to like Steel man, and be completely fair here, we would say they. They always do it with like, one layer of plausible deniability where they can go, oh, I'm not saying anybody should be censored. What are you talking about? I'm just going to do a struggle session on anybody who maybe would talk to them or anybody who doesn't criticize the person who talked to them. Like, okay, yeah, you're right. It's, it's one degree different than saying the government should force social media companies to kick him off. But also, again, this is why I brought it up. As someone who was doing some of those interviews, the platforming, who was a person who battled with the actual woke left over that you're saying all the exact same things. They said all the exact same things, maybe minus one or two, but it's all the same exact tones. We're not mad you had him. We're mad you didn't shriek racist at him the whole time he was there.

[Rob Bernstein]

Okay, you know what? He should at least be fair and send out offers to people of going, here's the pre approved talking points and here's the paycheck for if you do it.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, yeah, no, that's right.

[Rob Bernstein]

Yeah, for all of us. Talk about just speaking to truth and not asking questions in the name of having an audience. Why don't you, why don't you share the wealth of why you preach your talking points?

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, well, I mean, the, the thing is, dude, is that Ben Shapiro also is. Look, obviously, and this is not rocket science and everybody can see this and it's not. Look, Ben Shapiro is still. I'm not making it. People overstate it sometimes. It's not that Ben Shapiro's audience has like evaporated. Ben Shapiro is, still has a big show. He's still a relevant guy. There's a reason we're talking about him. He's still a relevant guy in, in the.

[Rob Bernstein]

He's no Josh Hammer in this world.

[Dave Smith]

No, I mean, listen, very few people can be the Hammer. Nobody's got that guy's raw sex appeal. But the thing is that Ben Shapiro was so huge and he's fallen so far from where he was. And just in terms of like the level of like grassroots, like respect is like just. It's really, you know, like Ben Shapiro is. He was a guy who was getting tens. Ben Shapiro was getting tens of millions of views on videos before me. And you ever hit 10,000 on a. You know what I mean, Rob? But like, he's now very much within striking distance. And obviously the people who are just on these meteoric rises in the right wing conservative, you know, commentary world are Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes. These guys are just like, you know, taking, taking off. And Ben Shapiro is, is really retreating. And so for Ben to come out and say he's now in the. And then he Lumps Megyn Kelly in there, too, I think, for the crime of, like, just not just, like, talking to us and not condemning, you know, people like me and more so Tucker and Candace. But so now who's Ben Shapiro is going to come out here and go, hey, we all must condemn. I mean, think about this list. Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, like, what? This is Brian Stelter demanding we condemn Joe Rogan all over again. You know, what position are you in? Who the hell are you, man? You should be like, it's just a weird thing. Again, it reminds me of how Douglas Murray came into that debate on Joe Rogan and why it backfired so spectacularly for him. And it reminds me, actually of a lot of, you know, how a lot of Zionists are this way. And I'm not saying it's a Jewish thing, because Douglas Murray ain't Jewish, and he came in and had. But there's this thing where I sit up here on the throne and you're down here and you're like, nah, dude, you got to get down here. Ben Shapiro, your attitude right now is you should be lobbying for a public debate with Nick Fuentes or Candace Owens or Tucker Carlson or Megyn Kelly. You should be trying to get a debate because you got to win the argument back. Dude, you're the guy holding up the Israeli flags. There's, like no American political commentator who is holding up the Israeli flag higher and holding it tighter than Ben Shapiro. And he's doing this over a period of time where support for Israel has collapsed like 50 point collapses in the polls. So your side is losing. You don't then get to come out and dictate that everybody else must condemn everybody else who's a big critic of my side who's winning this argument. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Brunt Workwear. Been telling you about them for a while. Choosing work boots used to mean sacrificing comfort or durability. If they felt good, they didn't last, and if they lasted, they wrecked your feet. But Brunt thought that was bs, so they built a tough boot that feels great from day one. No break in, no sore feet. I'll tell you guys, I was a little skeptical about this claim. They sent me a pair of the boots. They are real deal, sturdy work boots. I use them around my property when I'm plowing snow or taking out garbage in the bad weather. They're strong, serious work boots, and they feel Like a worn in sneaker the first time you wear them, they really are great. Get it for the man who works hard and deserves to be comfortable in your life. Or if that's you, get it for yourself. Also, our listeners will get $10 off their entire order if they use the promo code problem when they check [e-mail] that's bruntworkware.com promo code problem for $10 off. All right, let's get back into the show.

[Rob Bernstein]

Dude, I was, I was thinking that too. When I first saw the clips, I was like, oh, wow, did Ben Shapiro actually debate Tucker Carlson? When I just first saw the headlines and I was like, and I think that just speaks to the point of him, is that if you really believed all this and you really thought he was on the side of truth, he would debate these things. And obviously, I think yourself, Tucker Carlson, Steve Bannon, there's a lot of individuals who would be happy to have this conversation with him. And I think it's quite telling of the fact that Ben Shapiro just needs a platform where nobody can give him pushback in order to just tell you that everyone else is wrong and that he's right.

[Dave Smith]

Dude, I mean, just with, with the like, basic assumption of like, it's promoted the right way. We did like a big event. I'm literally telling any, any of those debates that you just mentioned whether Ben Shapiro debated me, if he debated, obviously if he debated Fuentes, if he debated Bannon, if he debated Tucker. Candace, any one of those would guaranteed be like one of the biggest political debates in the United States in years. Like, it'd be up there with one of the biggest, like, most watched, most consequential debates and he don't want to do that now. People try to make a thing. You could sit there and say, oh, he did offer to debate Candace or Tucker at one point. But like, look, if he just wanted it, there's, you know, like you just said, Rob, I mean, I know Fuentes. I mean, I'm speaking out of turn. Like, I'm not saying Fuentes told me this, but I know he would do that. I know he would do that. I certainly would do it. I've challenged him a million times. I bet Bannon would do it, you know. Yeah, it's just. And it would be huge benchmark. But that's not what he wants to do now. Anyway, I want to get to this because we are coming up to the end of time here. I thought this, this was actually the thing that was the most interesting about Any of this to me. So it was like Ben Shapiro started, he was the first speaker, he does that. Then Ben Shapiro just gets torched by like a ton of speakers after that. And there's the weird, the weird dynamic where like Michael Knowles and people like that are there and you could tell, they just like, they're like, yeah, but dude, I don't want to be hated by everyone in our movement. So like, could I just be cool with everyone? But then Tucker was great. He, he trashed Ben Shapiro, Bannon trashed Ben Shapiro, said interesting things about how he was trying to take over Breitbart at the time when Bannon kicked him out or whatever. And anyway, but then JD Vance spoke and this to me was very interesting because obviously there is no one, no one in the United States of America has got to be more concerned and focused and aware of this dynamic that we're talking about than J.D. vance. Right, Rob? I mean, you got, look, Donald Trump's in there and all the dumb Miriam Adelson talk about a third term. I don't think any of that's happening. I think this is Donald Trump's last term. So you got a major division within maga. And Rob, again, think of the dynamics here, right? You got a division. It's not exactly a 50, 50 civil war now is it? But it's a division where like on one side, let's say broadly speaking, on our Tucker Carlson, you know, on the right wing critic of Israel, non interventionist type side, you've got 80% of the base, you know, and if you're, if you're somebody who's trying to become president of the United States, like J.D. vance, 80% of your base is something that's very important to you. On the other hand, over on this side, you have 100% of your donors, okay? So 100% of your donors are over on this side. And it does seem to me, I'm curious to get your thoughts, Rob, but it seems to me this was something I've been thinking about for a while here, there. I've, I've seen, I'm sure you have two reports and you know, different high profile individuals demanding that JD Vance denounce Nick Fuentes, demanding that he denounced Tucker Carlson for having Nick Fuentes on. So their side is already making these demands of him. And then it just seems to me like the fundamentals on the ground here. And I've watched this play out a few times. Like really, I've talked about it a lot on the show, but I watched this play out when I went to the, that Turning Point event when Charlie was still alive at the Student Action Summit, and I debated, and I've watched this play out when I was just on Megyn Kelly's show here. Right? It's not my, it's not really my doing, but the dynamic becomes that you do kind of have to pick a side. And everyone starts getting pushed into this world. Because what happens is Charlie goes, okay, 80% of my base is against this thing that I support. So I got to at least, like, can I at least, like, host moderate a debate on this? And then the 100% of the donors go, no, you're evil now. So, like, you're, you're going to get forced into saying something. And, and at a certain point, I don't see how, J.D. like, I don't see at least right now how you could be a Republican candidate and not take a position on this. And so I was curious, like, what is J.D. vance gonna say here, man? This has been the topic of the whole thing. Anyway, let's. Let's play the clip, and then you'll, you can go first and give your thoughts on it.

[Commercial Narrator]

Rob.

[J.D. Vance]

I didn't bring a list of conservatives to denounce or to de platform. And I don't really care if some people out there. I'm sure we'll have the fake news media denounce me after this speech. But let me just say, the best way to honor Charlie is that none of us here should be doing something after Charlie's death that he himself refused to do in life. He invited all of us here. Charlie invited all of us here for a reason, because he believed that each of us, all of us, had something worth saying. And he trusted all of you to make your own judgment. And we have far more important work to do than canceling each other. We have got to build. And President Donald Trump is a builder.

[Dave Smith]

Okay, so let's pause it there. And in fact, I think we can just end it. That's really what I, what I wanted to play. So, yeah, Rob, you can, you can go ahead. But it was, this was like, directly him. The first time I've ever really seen him go like, hey, I'm. Without saying it, I'm not on Ben Shapiro's side here. I'm on Tucker Carlson's side, which, I mean, was pretty clearly the subtext of that, that opening.

[Rob Bernstein]

Well, I think he's being a good politician because he's not saying a whole lot. He is obviously refuting what Ben Shapiro said. I did find something Interesting in his words though, of we shouldn't if, if we shouldn't do in Charlie Kirk's death what he didn't want to do when he was alive, which I think would also include not platforming Nick Fuentes. So it's a little bit of a, you know, a double comment there where he clearly is refuting what Ben Shapiro was saying and saying, let's not engage in censorship. Everyone should have a voice. But it is within, I guess the Charlie Kirk Lane of who can be platformed and how can they be platformed. So it's a little bit open ended and kind of politician sneaky. And then of course he work just works it back into. And Trump's a builder. So let's build hurrah.

[Dave Smith]

Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, it's an interesting point you make. I didn't take it that way about Fuentes and Charlie not wanting to platform him. I thought it was more just a statement about the people who were there and like Tucker and Megan and these guys getting like condemned or whatever. No, look, I, I mean, I guess my, my takeaway from that would be that it's interesting to see JD Vance weigh into this for the first time really that I've seen and weigh in on the right side. So I want to give him credit for that because it did seem like now I, I just do think that the, the issue you're. And this isn't even something that I am insisting on. I mean, I suppose I would be insisting on this if it were like campaign time and he's trying to win my support or something like that. It's like, well then you'd have to be running on things that I believe in and that, you know, but whatever, that's a whole different thing. I'm just saying, like right now I just don't think this is good enough. Like, look, I'll give him credit. Like it was better than nothing and he was on the right side of it. But Rob, if you think you're just gonna yada yada this and that's why Donald Trump's a builder and then kind of move over that, that the problem is here, right, Is that everyone and I did, I will say we didn't have time to play this too. But Megyn Kelly had one great clip and it was kind of, it was fairly simple what she said. But I thought it was really great where you know, at one point it was Jack Posayak was, was like interviewing her at Megyn Kelly at this, this event. And at one point, you know, she was like, she said like, like Ben Shapiro. I don't know why he thinks he's the guy who gets to dictate who we all must condemn and everything else. That's crazy. She mentioned a thing about how she made his career, which is, was kind of true. She used to boost him all the time anyway. And she goes, look, the whole thing's over, Israel. Can we just admit that? Can we just admit that that's what the whole thing's about? And it was so simple but so obvious and true. And it was just like, look, the whole issue, Ben Shapiro and those guys, they want to pretend this isn't the issue, but that is what the issue. That's, that is what the split is over here. And so you're going to have to take a position on that. And that's going to be, I think, much trickier for, for him to do. In fact, I don't know how he's possibly going to walk this tightrope. Anyway, thought it was really interesting that he at least said the right thing there. Like you said, Rob, he's a politician. He at least knows I am not throwing Tucker Carlson under the bus right now. I'm not throwing like the most influential guy who's like, I have a really good relationship with who I'm going to need help over the next few years. Like I'm not doing that. So there you go. A decent politician at least. All right, thank you guys so much. Regular schedule this week. We're back at it. Catch you guys tomorrow with a brand new episode. Peace.

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Dave Smith]

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