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Trust the Science

Part Of The Problem

Tue Nov 26 2024

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Part Of The Problem" – Episode: "Trust the Science"

Podcast Information:

Title: Part Of The Problem
Host: GaS Digital Network (Dave Smith)
Description: Dave Smith explores current events, government, foreign policy, and all things Libertarian, aiming to educate listeners about the possibilities of a truly free nation.
Episode: Trust the Science
Release Date: November 26, 2024

Introduction

In the "Trust the Science" episode of Part Of The Problem, hosts Dave Smith and Robbie the Fire Bernstein delve into the intersection of science, media, and ideology. They critically examine how scientific discourse is influenced by political agendas and the implications of this interplay on public trust and policy-making.

Critique of Bill Maher and Scientific American

The episode opens with a discussion about a clip from Bill Maher's show, where Maher criticizes Scientific American after their editor quit due to expressing controversial opinions.

Dave Smith (06:50): “This is one of the biggest publications in the scientific world. And you can already see him squirming immediately. Why did she have to quit? Because she expressed some opinions. Well, is that really it?”

Debbie and Robbie express concerns that Scientific American's handling of dissenting opinions undermines the credibility of scientific discourse, suggesting that political biases are compromising scientific integrity.

Trust in Science and Ideology

The hosts discuss the challenges faced by scientists like Neil deGrasse Tyson, who they believe are swayed by political pressures, leading to a loss of objectivity.

Dave Smith (08:19): “Neil DeGrasse Tyson got me once again to an... I'm not going to upset anyone with power. I am always going to be on their side.”
Robbie the Fire Bernstein (09:08): “He's not a nerd. Was he cool?”

They argue that prominent scientists are often pressured to conform to prevailing political ideologies, which can erode public trust in scientific expertise.

COVID-19 and Vaccine Skepticism

The conversation shifts to the COVID-19 pandemic and the skepticism surrounding vaccines. The hosts critique the reliance on authority without critical evaluation.

Bill Maher Clip (27:11): “Just being skeptical of all medical interventions, as everyone should.”
Dave Smith (35:26): “We don't really trust you guys anymore because we've seen the way you operate.”

They highlight personal anecdotes and stories, such as Tom Woods' experience, to illustrate the growing distrust in medical authorities and the impact of politicized science on public perception.

Media Credibility and Brian Williams

Dave and Robbie analyze comments made by Brian Williams, a disgraced NBC News anchor, focusing on his critique of the Biden administration and the disconnect between media elites and the working class.

Brian Williams Clip (43:11): “It's insulting when members of the working class... insist the economy is doing great.”
Dave Smith (49:30): “Inflation is like a tax. How can you deny that?”

The hosts argue that such commentary from mainstream media figures reflects a broader issue of misrepresenting the economic struggles of ordinary Americans, further alienating the working class.

Economic Commentary: Inflation as a Tax

Dave and Robbie discuss the portrayal of economic indicators like the stock market versus the real-life impact of inflation on everyday Americans.

Dave Smith (49:30): “Inflation is like a tax. If your taxes went up by 20%, it's the same thing. That's devastating.”
Robbie the Fire Bernstein (53:07): “The shame on you campaign is not going to work. You're just evil and mean.”

They emphasize that while stock indices may show growth, the rising cost of living acts as a hidden tax, disproportionately affecting the working class and leading to a disconnect between economic policy and public welfare.

Cultural Disconnect with the Working Class

The hosts explore the cultural divide between media elites and the working class, attributing it to differing values and lifestyles.

Dave Smith (54:27): “Tucker Carlson is absolutely in the privileged class, and he does not deny that.”
Robbie the Fire Bernstein (55:08): “He's a white trash billionaire... imagine handing $3 billion to someone in a trailer park.”

They argue that this disconnect hampers effective communication and policy-making, as the concerns and values of the working class are often misunderstood or ignored by those in positions of influence.

Debate on Capitalism vs. Democratic Socialism

Drawing from a debate between economist Gene Epstein and democratic socialist Bhaskar Sankara, Dave underscores the complexities of collective decision-making in a democratic socialist framework.

Dave Smith (61:03): “Gene was essentially arguing that in a democratic socialist society, decisions about production are left to the majority, which may not always align with individual freedoms.”

They critique the feasibility of democratic socialism, suggesting that collective decision-making can lead to inefficiencies and suppression of minority needs in favor of majority preferences.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up the episode, Dave and Robbie reiterate their concerns about the erosion of trust in scientific and media institutions due to political influence and ideological biases. They call for greater honesty and alignment between media narratives and the lived experiences of ordinary Americans.

Dave Smith (66:11): “Tucker Carlson... he can be thoughtful and think about what is happening to people in the working class.”
Robbie the Fire Bernstein (66:38): “I do not think those numbers are accurate. I think he's just pulling that out of his ass.”

The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to critically evaluate sources of information and advocate for a more transparent and accountable media landscape.

Notable Quotes:

Dave Smith (06:50): “This is one of the biggest publications in the scientific world. And you can already see him squirming immediately. Why did she have to quit? Because she expressed some opinions. Well, is that really it?”
Dave Smith (08:19): “Neil DeGrasse Tyson got me once again to an... I'm not going to upset anyone with power. I am always going to be on their side.”
Brian Williams Clip (43:11): “It's insulting when members of the working class... insist the economy is doing great.”
Dave Smith (49:30): “Inflation is like a tax. If your taxes went up by 20%, it's the same thing. That's devastating.”
Dave Smith (54:27): “Tucker Carlson is absolutely in the privileged class, and he does not deny that.”
Dave Smith (61:03): “Gene was essentially arguing that in a democratic socialist society, decisions about production are left to the majority, which may not always align with individual freedoms.”

This episode of Part Of The Problem offers a critical examination of how scientific integrity and media credibility are influenced by political ideologies, highlighting the resulting distrust among the public. Dave Smith and Robbie the Fire Bernstein urge listeners to remain vigilant and discerning in their consumption of scientific and media content to foster a more transparent and accountable society.

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Transcript

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Robbie the Fire Bernstein (1:25)

I'm doing well. How are you, Mr. Smith?

Dave Smith (1:27)

Very good. I can't complain. You once again are a human being with a car. Yes, you fell down to my level for a minute there, but you're right back to being normal. So how does that feel?

Robbie the Fire Bernstein (1:37)

I like the car. This is the first time I'm being hooked by capitalism. Cause I got a pretty nice car and now I actually want a really nice car.

Dave Smith (1:45)

Oh, that's all it took.

Robbie the Fire Bernstein (1:46)

Like I've never bought something and been like wow, I like this so much. Can we do better with this? Usually I'm like eh, this does nothing for me. But I like this car.

Dave Smith (1:54)

Dude. Last time I was in Austin, Rogan showed me this new car he just bought right like this. I forget what it was. Just this beautiful like 1960 something sports car. It's like the coolest freaking thing you've ever seen. And he was saying, he was like, he goes the thing like he goes. There's a lot of things about being Successful that you just get used to and start taking for granted. And you kind of like, you know, you get a nice house, but pretty soon it just becomes your house, you know? And he was like, you never drive one of these and don't just feel like, this is awesome. This is really awesome to have. And so I do. I could see where that. Getting into getting, you know, that's like a dangerous thing. Like, I remember there was. I think we talked about this, but Louis at one point, that's like a couple of years ago. I don't know. It was one of Lewis's ideas. He's always got a million ideas. But he was like, we should get Rolexes. Like me, him, and Jay. We should all get like, nice Rolexes. Yeah, we're making a few bucks now. Like, let's do it. And I remember in my mind just being like, I. I'm not a watch guy, never been a watch. I could not care less about having a Rolex. Like, this is not my thing. Having a nice watch has never been my thing. I don't really give a shit about. Like, I kind of feel like in a way, it's almost. It's like a way to signal to other people that you're somebody. And I always kind of felt like I'd just rather signal that in other ways. I don't need to signal that with my watch, and I don't particularly care about it. But then there's also just a part of me that's like, ah, the last thing I want to do is get a Rolex and find out that I really like having nice watches. You know what I mean? And now this is a thing. Now it's like, oh, I got to spend money on watches because I put it on and I'm like, this is the goddamn greatest feeling in the world. Which is possible. I don't know. I've never worn a nice watch. It is possible that I put it on and go out and go. I've just never felt so great as that night when I went out with my $20,000. Now I have to be in the game of getting $20,000 watches. Now my kids can't go to college. Sure, they end up not being indoctrinated in those feminists gas chambers, but still, I think the point is that it's a dangerous road to go down. So anyway, my friend, you're going down that path here. Getting a nice car. It's no good.

Dave Smith (13:25)

All right, let's pause it. I mean, you can just see the squirming is just so uncomfortable. I mean, if you just think for a second about. Listen, Bill Maher's point. Okay, listen, him saying this is why the Democrats lost, I do think is a little like, okay, there's lots of factors to why the Democrats lost. And it's not exclusively this, but he's clearly touching on something that's very real. And look, Neil DeGrasse Tyson's attempts to evade this are pathetic. I mean, he's saying, oh, this woman. Well, does she work there anymore? It's like, no, but she doesn't work there anymore because she went on some unhinged, you know, like Twitter or whatever social media post about how everybody who's, you know, in the country are fascists or something. But the point Bill Maher's making is like, yeah, But a year ago, she like that the fact that that can such a clearly anti scientific statement, but one that serves a certain ideology can get published in one of the leading scientific journals in the country. How do you not look at that and go like, yo, that's a major problem. And the reason why I appreciate Bill Maher bringing this up is because that actually, I'm not saying it's the reason the Democrats lost, but it goes to the heart of like what a lot of problems with the trust the science people is, is that. Well, no, okay, it's not just science. You mix this poisonous ideology with science and this ideology, let's call it progressivism, is. It's not just that. It's that the ideology demands that if the ideology is in conflict with science, even in the most obvious way, like the most obvious way, nobody, again, this is like a lot of these issues, nobody actually believes that the reason why LeBron James is a better basketball player than insert WNBA athlete here is because of the way society treats boys and girls like that. If you don't think that's a biological reality, then you're throwing biology, which last I checked was a branch of science out the window. You're saying there's no such thing as biology. Like, okay, that's an insane anti scientific argument. But the fact that that could get printed and that that didn't like set off alarm bells like that at this scientific journal, an editor could be making the argument that biology isn't real and that like, I mean, listen, I'm just saying scientifically speaking, it's on the level of saying that mayor male deer have antlers because they feel that way, because they feel like having antlers. You know, it's not like predetermined in their genetic makeup that they have antlers. It is something that, well, it's because society expects male deer to have antlers. And so this pressure is put on them and if we just were to expect the females to have them, they would also have them. It's on that level scientifically to say that like, and believe me, someone who's got a little girl and a little boy, there are differences. Now by the way, you can acknowledge that and still think that women's sports are important and ought to be promoted. You can even defend things that I don't necessarily believe in, but you could defend that the NBA should be subsidizing the wnba. You can have whatever arguments you want. But this is the essence of like why people don't just trust the science and why people shouldn't just trust the science is that you guys are so possessed by ideology that you will not only ignore scientific information, but straight up lie about what the science says. And you see this through Covid, you see this with climate change. And I know Bill Maher is not going to make that connection, although he will probably make the COVID one. But it's like right there and then Mr. Scientist Guy is reduced to having nothing except these very cheap attempts to like spin it back on Bill Maher. It's just like totally embarrassing. I don't know your thoughts.

Dave Smith (20:15)

Yeah. And, like, I do think there is. It's almost like, look, there are these two forces in life, and they're very yin and yang in many ways. They're like the male and the female. And I don't say that to mean that, like, all men are like this and all women are like this. But there is something to the fact that, like, okay, there's, like, logic and there's emotion. And I don't think either of those are unimportant. And I'd say one of. By the. One of the lessons of that I've learned from being married, and I think this is. This took me a while, but it is something that made me a better person, was kind of. Because generally speaking, again, and obviously I'm speaking in generalities here, that men tend to be more logical and women tend to be more emotional. And I think one of the things that's very tough for men to understand is that emotion is valid, too. And, like, there's nothing wrong. Like, it's important how people that you care about feel. Like that matters. And we're also emotional creatures. It's not like we're not. We're just, you know, a little more skewed to logic. But there's something where, like, if you're ever. If you're ever in an argument with your girl and you're like, hey, logically, I'm right. Think about it like this. I have a logical point here. And she's like, okay, I'm hurt by that. You didn't win. Like, if you're making your chick upset, that's not a win for you. That's a loss. You know what I mean? And if she's feeling upset, then you actually do need to value that and deal with that. And, okay, you have a logical argument. But, like, whatever. Like, all I'm saying Is there is. There are things that it's like, that might be true, but you'd be a dick to say it. And so, like, maybe don't say it. Okay? Like, there is an area for that in life. The problem is that progressivism so leans into the emotion. And, like, how does this make me feel that you will straight up deny reality? Like, just deny reality. And I remember. I remember getting in arguments with people like, 15 years ago. And, like, like, at comedy clubs and shit, like, just arguing with other comics and stuff. And, like, remember there would be these, like, slogans that progressives would have. And I remember one of them, which. I don't know. Have you ever heard this before? But someone said it to me. I remember getting in this argument with them and they said. They said, race is a social construct. And I was like, where did you even get that from? And it was from a. I think a sociology class. And they said, yeah, well, that's. The argument is that race is a social construct. And I was like, what? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard in my life. Like, again, I'm not, like, trying to be a dick. You don't have to take that. I'm not, like, saying, oh, you should hate a group of people based on their race or anything like that. I'm just saying, like, you do understand. And I remember saying that there was this guy Jay, who was with us, who is a black dude, used to work at Eastville Comedy Club. And I was like, so what is it that you're saying? Are you saying that Jay's skin is black and my skin is white? Because what society did people tell him he was black, and then he, like, developed different pigments in his skin. Like, what are you saying? I was like, no, it's biology. It's. We evolved in different continents and evolved differently. Now I can understand where there are people who don't really want to have that conversation, and they don't want to really go on to go down, because what are the implications of that? You know, like, what. What ways are we different in does this. Okay, fine, fine. You don't want to go down there. And maybe it's better for society did not even have that conversation. There is such a thing as real conversations that maybe aren't the best to have, that some things are better left unsaid or something like that. Fine, but don't lie to me. Don't start it by going, hey, race is a social construct, because I'm not an idiot. And like, no, it Fucking isn't. So just don't. That's all I'm saying is don't start. And if you're going to claim to be the science TM and there's a topic you don't want to talk about, I'm even okay with that. But don't lie, don't bring up that topic and like gaslight people to say, oh no, no, no. In fact, here let me take on why the NBA players are better than WNBA players, ok? And here's the answer. Cuz you're sexist society like that's just so fucking ridiculous. This is crazy that any adult would ever say that out loud. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Proton VPN. Proton created ProtonVPN to further protect the journalists, activists and everyday citizens who use Proton mail. Proton VPN breaks down the barriers of Internet censorship, allowing you to access restricted online content. Proton Secure VPN sends your Internet traffic through an encrypted VPN tunnel to keep your browsing data safe, even over public or untrusted Internet connections. As a Swiss VPN provider, Proton does not log user activity or share data with third parties. Their anonymous VPN service keeps your browsing history private and enables an Internet without surveillance. ProtonVPN is available on all of your devices, including PCs, Macs, smartphones, and even routers. A secure Internet connection you can trust is essential to maintaining your privacy on your laptop at home, your mobile device on the road, or your workstation at the office. And right now you can get an excellent exclusive and limited time offer by going to protonvpn.com Dave Smith once again, this is a limited time offer, so go check it out today. Proton vpn.com Dave Smith all right, let's get back into the show. Doesn't. Doesn't work for me. Would you turn the dial on that just down a little bit, Rob? Just like. Yeah, to the middle. Yeah, there you go. Perfect. All right. Any thoughts, Rob, or you want to move on to the.

Dave Smith (31:28)

I guess I'm trusting that your brain can stretch further than mine, because when you start, you know, talking about black holes and billions of galaxies and stuff, I'm Getting pretty lost. But I guess you understand this, so dumb it down and explain it to me. But then that guy comes on and he is making. I don't know, I don't really have better words to describe this, but just like a, a profoundly stupid and dishonest argument. This. Look, the thing he's saying about what his argument was, 99% of the time, you don't need a second opinion. And Bill Maher was like, most of us have been through something in life where we needed a second opinion. And he goes, yeah, but that was after 99 things where you didn't need a second opinion. First of all, I do not think those numbers are accurate. I think he's just pulling that out of his ass. What 99 different meta. I don't think I've been to a doctor 99 times in my life and I've needed a second opinion on things before. Um, and then again, the, the point. And I'm curious to get your thoughts on this, Rob, but the point of saying, like, hey, we used to have half the life expectancy we have now and people ate organic food. Like, this is just a basic, like, correlation versus causation thing. Is he arguing against organic food? Is he arguing that the, the fact that we have over processed food in this country doesn't have negative health outcomes? Do we not have an obesity epidemic? Do we not? Like and like, yes, it is true. And I'm not a scientist or a doctor, but it is true. I know this much. A huge part of the reason why we had life expectancy that was half of what it is today is because so many babies died. And I don't know what percentage it is exactly, but I know it's a huge percentage of this is just antibiotics. Infections used to kill people all the time. And we figured out with pretty good effectiveness how to deal with infections. Now there are problems associated with antibiotics, but there's no question that there are things that would have killed people that today just don't. Don't kill people. I remember, I may have mentioned this on the show before, but I remember when I was. I think I was 19, whatever, a real fucked up infection in my tonsil and had to. It was gross. Had to have like surgery on it and open it up and stuff. It was gross. But I just remember the ENT telling me this just really stuck in my head at 19 years old that he told. He was like, oh, you know, this is what George Washington died of.

Dave Smith (35:33)

But I'm reminded of a story that Tom woods shared in his newsletter, which this, to me, I think sums it all up. And this is how a lot of people feel about modern medicine today. Is that so? Tom woods, as you guys know, is a brilliant guy. And, you know, he's like, I say he's got degrees from Harvard and Columbia, so I guess he gets to have an opinion. But he, and he wrote Diary of a Psychosis, phenomenal book about the COVID years, which you really, really should get if you haven't already. But so he was much like us, I think. Tom was never really a guy who, where vaccines were one of his interests. That wasn't really something he had done deep reading and thinking about. But during COVID paid very much attention to this vaccine because that was a pretty big deal in America at the time and in the world. And he told this story about how he went to the doctor, this was earlier in the year. And the doctor was like, you know, Tom's, I want to say in his late 40s or early 50s. And I guess his doctor said to him, he was like, oh, you know, you're at your age now, you can get the shingles vaccine because you know, blah, blah, blah, if you've had chicken pox or whatever, you can get shingles. And he goes, it's 85% effective against shingles. And Tom goes, any other time in my life, any other time in my life, I just would have went, okay, you know, the doctor's telling me I should get this thing. He, I don't understand it and he knows it. He's the guy in the white coat, right? So I'll take. But he goes, but after having written a book about the COVID vaccine, he's like, well, what does that mean, 85%? Because I know how you guys cooked the books for this other one. And it's the same goddamn companies that are selling this one. So now I got to go home and research this because I'm not just going to trust you now. I got to go talk to my doctor expert. Now I got to do. And that's where a lot of us are at this point. We don't really trust you guys anymore because we've seen the way you operate. It's kind of that simple. I don't know, any thoughts on any of that?

Dave Smith (43:24)

That's right. Listen. And I think I would say that there's Even if it didn't really happen. Sometimes even just a story that a near death experience that you made up can still have a real effect on a person. Obviously Brian Williams is a disgraced liar. It's kind of insane that he's even still around at all. I know certainly he got demoted pretty heavily and would never return to being Brian Williams again. But it is pretty crazy that like the, that he ever went back to NBC News at all was kind of nuts. I mean, for people who don't know the story. Brian Williams was the NBC News anchor when we were, when we were younger. He was kind of really one of the biggest, if not the biggest guys in news. Again, this was not an MSNBC anchor. This was the NBC Nightly News anchor. He was also just incredibly talented. You know, he's a propagandist. He wasn't like a real journalist, but he was incredibly talented, very funny in interviews, like just very good, very charming and charismatic. And he got caught just lying, which really you would think would be the cardinal sin for a journalist. It's kind of like working at a daycare and touching one of the kids. It's like the biggest thing you're not like, you know, you're in the business of not doing this. That's the entire cell is. And the entire cell of being the news guy is that you're not lying, you're telling the truth. And not only did he get caught lying, but he got caught. You know, I, like, there's, there's, you know, there are lies that are worse than other lies. And sometimes like if you, I don't know, if you're in trouble for something and so you lie about it, that's not okay. It's not right to lie. But at least you can kind of understand where it's like, oh, they lied for this reason because I'd be upset with them if they told me the truth. And so they lied. And that's kind of different than someone like, you know, you ever catch someone, you ever just known a liar in your life, like a pathological liar? And they just lie for no reason. You know what I'm talking about? Like, you just lie about something. You're like, but why would you even lie about that? And there's something more disturbing about that lie than the lie where you understand why they were lying. And then what Brian Williams did was lie just to make himself seem cool. He kind of gave this whole story about what was. It was on a helicopter and they got shot at and there was this whole thing and it turned out none of it was true and he was just lying to kind of look like a badass. And there's something about that sin that's so unforgivable for newsmen because the whole thing is that, like, you're not supposed to be there. It's not supposed to be about you. The idea of journalism is that it should never be about you. It's always about the news that you're covering. And you are just kind of a vessel to get this truth to people, and then it's on them to make up their mind with it. That's, that's in theory what the job's supposed to be. So when you do that, it's the fact that they would ever have him back is like, wild. But, you know, that's the least of what's wild about corporate media. Anyway, all of that being said, he is a very smart guy and he's an old school news business guy. And so there's something interesting there where you kind of know they are the ones. A lot of them, him, Chris Matthews, a lot of them have this tendency to not be caught up in the latest thing because they still think of the glory days as being like the 90s or something like that. So, like, they don't think of 2017 as the glory days. And so when this loss happens, sometimes they're the ones who do within that world have a little bit more insight into, like, what actually, what actually went down here. Anyway, I did think this was really fascinating, so let's play this clip.

Dave Smith (49:30)

All right, well, I mean, I don't know that he exactly gets it right there because I don't think they won the argument and lost the election. I think they just lost all of it. But look, it's, it's, it's a weird feeling. I know you must have experienced some of this, Rob. Right. And we've had a lot of this over the years in our little rinky dink operation that evidently can't even get a live stream going on my website. Sorry about that again, guys. We've just had a lot of moments, me and you, since we've been doing the show together, where we're saying something for a year and then it makes it onto the corporate tv and they're saying it like, whoa, who? No one ever thought of this before. And it's just kind of interesting, like to even see Brian Williams saying this after the fact. It's like, yeah, but where was all of this a year ago? Because a lot of what he's saying there is the shit that we talk about every episode, every episode on the show like that there's this enormous disconnect between these people on the TV who make 600 grand a year and the situation that your average working family is in, and that it's a slap in the face to the American people who are struggling to be giving all of these handouts to illegal immigrants who they don't want to be here in the first place. And just a lot of the stuff he's talking about, inflation and all of this, it is interesting to see them like, again, I'm not exaggerating. We've been talking about this for years. For years we've been making these points. But it is interesting to at least hear somebody say that to them. Because how can you even deny that? How can you even deny that? It's like, you know, these people out here are trying to act like for, for a full year and a half they were trying to sell you that the economy is great. I don't know what you're talking about. Imagine how is that going to work? The economy's great. The economy is terrible. This terrible. And everyone knows it. I mean, you know, you just look at it like, very simply put, inflation is a tax. Right? In effect. Right. If you if your taxes went up by whatever your grocery bills are for the year, okay, whatever they are for the year, if they go up 20% or you got taxed, whatever 20% of your groceries is, it's the same thing. In effect, it's the same thing for you. You got tax. Okay, so the price of everything went up and it's somewhere around 20%. I think it's actually more than that. But let's say 20% just to. Okay, so that's a 20% tax that was leveled against the working class in America. You know what that is? You know how bad that is if your taxes go up 20%. Like, if I just found out right now that my taxes were going up 20%, I'd have to end this show to go have a conversation with my wife about changing what our plans were for this next year. I'm doing pretty well, and that would really affect me if my taxes went up 20%. That happened to people making 50 grand a year. That's devastating. Devastating to be in that situation and then when you're in that situation where the working class just got the biggest tax levied on them, you're going to turn around and say, no, dummy, the economy's great. As he said. Look at the nasdaq, look at the S and P, like, come on, get the fuck out of here. But it's crazy that it had to take this type of loss for that truth to ever even get uttered on a television. Any thoughts?

Dave Smith (55:19)

Well, that's right. And it ended up working to his favor. I remember there was this one time, Gene Epstein, who is a, who's a brilliant economist. He runs the soho Forum. By the way, if you guys are ever in the New York City area while they're having one of those debates, go check it out. It's a great, like, debate series. Always really fun topics. The. The Soho forum.org I believe is the website. Uh, but if you just Google the soho Forum, you'll find it. All right, guys, let's take a moment and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Small Batch Cigar. The holidays are coming up. If you have a cigar enthusiast in your life and you're not sure what gift to get them. Well, we just figured it out for you. Small Batch Cigar. This is the place for cigar lovers to go. They have a wide range of great cigars and they're delivered right to your door. This is Going to win you some serious points with your father in law or your brother or whoever. The guy who loves cigars. 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So yeah, it was a pretty standard, you know, capitalism versus socialism debate. We've all seen a million of these debates before. I was, I was at it in, it was in New York City, well, 2017, 2018, something like that. And so he made this point. I remember talking about this on the show because it really stuck with me. And I've seen countless socialism versus libertarianism, capitalism, communism, like all these type of debates. I never really heard anyone make exactly this argument before. And I was like, I really got to think about this for a while because there's something really profound about what Gene was saying. But, so Gene was essentially, he was arguing that, he was like, well, look, under a system of private ownership and laissez faire, he was like, producers can do what they want and the will of the workers be damned, like they can make what they want. And he goes, but in a democratic socialist society, you're going to be collectively democratically making decisions about what gets produced. So he goes, let me just ask you, Bhaskar, which is funny to look at this like lefty, you know, college professor type guy. And he goes, so when it comes to the production of Quran's, do you think that like a private owner should be, hey, if there's a market and people who want to buy Qurans, then they should be allowed to print Qurans and produce them or do they have to rely on a Majority of the workers deciding that they want Korans to be produced, you know, and then he goes, how about birth control? If 55% of the workforce doesn't want birth control produced, does that mean women shouldn't have access to birth control? Or should a capitalist be able to produce it? The will of the workers be damned. And he can do whatever. And I was like, wow, there's. That's a really brilliant point. And I had to think about it for a while and I think kind of what Gene was getting at, or at least what I kind of took from it, was that there is this weird disconnect between the culture, you know what I mean, that you kind of desire, and what it. What exactly the majority will of the workers might be. And that's a real problem if you're a democratic socialist, you know what I mean? Like, it's a real problem that you want to leave these decisions up to a vote. And yet you. And I mean, like, if you could look at this guy, he's like, like a short, skinny, like college professor kind of nerdy guy. And you're like, yeah, you're not exactly Mr. Working Class, are you? You probably don't. And by the way, I think this is a problem for woke progressives, I think, or neoliberal woke types. I think it's a problem for woke libertarians, like, where you just. And this is what made me think of this is when Brian Williams goes, the Democrats started eating quinoa while the rest of the country was eating Cracker Barrel. And it's a lot more than just that. It's the issue. You know, if you watch my first comedy special, I had a huge chunk on the Trump grab him by the pussy comment. And one of the things that was interesting about that is it was one of these moments that just kind of. It was like a little glimpse into the cultural disconnect where. Okay, yes, when you get on the TV news and everyone's in suits and ties and everyone's going, good evening and welcome to the 8:00 news hour, blah, blah, blah. Yes. In that environment, if you go, one of the political candidates said, grab him by the pussy, everyone goes, appalling. This is outrageous. And I've never heard people talk like this. And I'm saying, however, when you get into the world of real people, you.

Dave Smith (61:05)

That's what's happening out there. No, but listen, I'm saying the idea of knowing that a guy said some shit like this to other dudes I think even most women go, they roll their eyes and go, yeah, men. You know what I mean? Like, it's not that crazy to them that, like when guys just get alone and they're having locker room talk or whatever, they say shit like that. That's just. There's just a thing where the. And here essentially is the problem, right, is that the people, especially NBC News or whatever, they embraced this identitarian politics, this identitarian wokeism, specifically because they didn't want to actually give red meat to the left. They didn't actually. They don't actually want to share banker profits with the working class. They don't actually want to have a redistribution of wealth from the wealthy to the working class. That's not. So they're like, okay, we won't do that, but we'll throw you these left wing pet causes, you know, transgender bathrooms. Sure, we'll give you that one. Diversity hires. Sure, we'll give you that. But the issue that they're up against is that culturally speaking, there is a huge gap between these types of people who claim to care about the working class and the working class themselves. The working class themselves are not woke. They are the opposite of woke. They're like nothing even. Again, where you find wokeism is going to be on a college campus in a newsroom at giant corporations, human resources departments. That's where you find wokeism. Go to a job site and tell me how much of it you find. You know, this is a major problem, particularly for democratic socialists and woke progressives that you, you have these cultural values that are diametrically opposed to the working class who you're claiming to champion. And of course you're not going to reach those people like that. And then this stuff with the, you know, the, what was it, hard hats or whatever that Kamala Harris had people wearing, it's like you're. This is a costume to you. This is an avatar. This is. None of this is real. But here's the thing, okay? The working class in America likes Miller Lite and McDonald's and Hooters and Trump, you know, like, that's what they, like, feel however you feel about it, but that's what they like. And so you're sitting here talking about this, like all these cultural issues, it's just quinoa is kind of a good way to put it, is just you're the privileged class. That's it. You're the privileged class and you're completely out of touch with the regular American people, which is not the worst thing in the world. You can be that and still connect to them. You know, one of the fascinating examples of that is Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson is absolutely in the privileged class, and he does not deny that. And no one who listens to him thinks otherwise. No one who listens to Tucker Carlson thinks, you know, I think that guy grew up, you know, the son of a trucker. No, no one thinks that. Everybody knows he's. But. But he accepts that. He recognizes that. And so then he can be thoughtful and think about what is happening to people in the working class. There's something. There's something Tucker said to me when we were talking less, he said in a better way than I could, but he goes, there's something. So his thing was that he said, when he said when the rich people really got fucked up, he said was in the 90s when they stopped wearing suits and ties and started wearing T shirts and jeans, like the Steve Jobs thing. That, that whole thing, he goes, that's when they lost their responsibility. And I thought it was a brilliant point because it's a little bit counterintuitive because you kind of feel like, oh, no, they're being more casual, they're being more real. But it's like, no, no, no. Because you're denying what you really are. If you accept that you are a part of this privileged class, great, Then you can actually think about what responsibility comes along with that. And then you can think about what an effort you'd have to make in order to really understand the disconnect between someone, you know, you, and somebody who's living as the average American. But when you deny that and pretend that you're not in the privileged class and there is no disconnect between you and those people, that's when you get into real problems. And that's when you start projecting onto them that they have the same sensibilities you have, even when it's. It's so obviously not the case. And I think that's a big part of what Brian Williams is getting at there that the entire corporate media missed. Okay, we're going to wrap up there. I do apologize for the problems in the livestream. I will do my best to have that figured out for. For tomorrow. And, yeah, anything you want.