In this episode of Partnering Leadership, Mahan Tavakoli sits down with Phil Le-Brun and Jana Werner, co-authors of The Octopus Organization. Drawing on decades of leadership experience across global organizations, they challenge one of the most deeply embedded assumptions in business: that organizations can still be run like machines.

At the heart of the conversation is a stark contrast between what they call “tinman” organizations and “octopus” organizations. Tinman organizations are built for efficiency, predictability, and control. They worked in a more stable world. But today’s environment is fundamentally different. It’s complex, fast-moving, and increasingly shaped by exponential technologies like AI. And in that world, the very structures that once drove performance are now holding organizations back.

Le-Brun and Werner don’t stay at the level of theory. They go deep into the patterns that keep leaders stuck, from false alignment at the top to the subtle ways leaders unintentionally kill ownership in their teams. They introduce the idea of “anti-patterns” and hold up a mirror to behaviors that feel normal but quietly undermine adaptability, speed, and innovation.

The discussion also pushes into what it actually takes to lead differently. Not slogans, but practical shifts. Moving from control to agency. From certainty to curiosity. From managing activity to enabling value creation. And critically, how leaders can begin making that shift without launching another top-down transformation that ultimately fails.

For senior leaders navigating AI, constant disruption, and increasing complexity, this conversation cuts through the noise. It offers a clear lens to diagnose what’s not working and a grounded path to start building organizations that can actually adapt and thrive.

Actionable Takeaways

You’ll learn why most leadership teams believe they’re aligned, yet create fragmentation and conflict across the organization.
Hear how well-intentioned leaders unintentionally train their teams to avoid ownership and default to permission-seeking.
You’ll discover the “anti-patterns” that quietly undermine transformation efforts, even in organizations that think they’re evolving.
Hear why focusing on efficiency alone, especially with AI, may actually accelerate the wrong outcomes.
You’ll learn how to spot whether your organization is still operating like a machine in a world that demands adaptability.
Hear how leading organizations are shifting from control-based models to systems that enable distributed decision-making.
You’ll discover why most change initiatives fail before they begin and what leaders do differently to create real momentum.
Hear how to rethink failure, experimentation, and learning in a way that drives progress rather than fear.
You’ll learn where to start if your organization is far from this model and why small, local changes often outperform large transformation plans.

Connect with Jana Werner and Phil Le-Brun

The Octopus Organization Website

Jana Werner LinkedIn

Phil Le-Brun LinkedIn

Connect with Mahan Tavakoli:

Mahan Tavakoli Website

Mahan Tavakoli on LinkedIn

Partnering Leadership Website