John R. Miles (7:55)

I am absolutely honored and thrilled today to have Dr. Abraham George join us for Passion Struck. Welcome Abraham.

Dr. Abraham George (8:03)

Thank you, Donnie.

John R. Miles (8:05)

Today we are talking from a world apart. You are in Southern India and I'm talking to you from just outside of Tampa, Florida. How are you today?

Dr. Abraham George (8:15)

I'm just fine. I'm happy to be with you.

John R. Miles (8:18)

Well, I'm happy to have you here and go into this remarkable movement that you've created. Before we go into that, I like to start these interviews out by going into the guest background. And you and I have something in common in that we both served in the military and you were a young lieutenant in the Indian military and at the time you were stationed high up like 14,000ft in the Himalayas. How did the challenges that you faced during that period of your youth and the reflection you did on that mountain shape your views on life and what you're doing today?

Dr. Abraham George (8:54)

I was barely 18 when I was sent up there. My first posting was to the Himalayas. The Chinese had invaded India through a pass called Ceylon Pass, and that is 14,000ft above sea level at that time the highest battleground anywhere in the world. And as a young man sat up there with some 300 soldiers to establish a gun position. That's a background. And I was alone as an officer there. And the experience I had for 11 months digging and blasting rocks and establishing the guns and afraid that the Chinese might come through it, that was very educational. I learned to make things happen on my own, motivate the soldiers and also endure the conditions under which I was living. For 11 months. It was always snowing and minus degrees and everything else, a lack of oxygen. And I think it has helped me all through my life. I learned how I could keep the morale of the soldiers high and that lesson carries on even today.

John R. Miles (10:10)

And I understand while you were up there you had time to do some deep reflection and you discovered a few books that ended up having a profound influence on you. Can you talk about that?

Dr. Abraham George (10:25)

Yes, certainly. During my stay up there, I was alone as an officer and I used to climb one of those little the hills up there already we were 14,000 and I would sit there only because I could see the sky below me. The clouds were floating below me and it was absolutely magnificent to sit up there and endless range of mountains and valleys. And while the blasting of the rocks were going on down below, I would occasionally go and guide them and check. But then I didn't have much to do and wait for them to complete the blasting. I had to be away from the blasting area anyway. I started thinking, what is that I'm doing? Sure, the Chinese might attack us and I will have to defend the border. But after a while I didn't find sufficient purpose to what I was doing. And that was the time I read one important book by Albert Schweitzer is a German and he. He won a Nobel Prize later. And he went in a river boat, a small cat. It wasn't even a boat, a canoe. And he reached Gabon, Africa. And he lived with the tribals. He established a hospital, he treated the patients there. I mean, people who came to him, the tribal people. He lived in the middle of the midst of animals and everything else. And I thought it was very fascinating and romantic to be living like that, especially the tribes. And another book I had read which had an impact on me, apart from Albert Sweater, I just trying to remember the name and in which the author says that there is nothing right about the book. It is what is left. And I said, my God, what is left? By which he meant, of course, that who is alive. Russell Bertrand Russell is a great philosopher of modern times. He's passed away. Bern Russell's book also I happened to read at that time. And a few days later, I'm not. A few days, a few months later I was blown up in one of those dynamite blasts. Only because the fuse wires the military was giving had to be cut short because we are running out of fuse wires. And then I took up the job of blast lighting the wires. And I didn't notice that the wire had already lighted. And suddenly it was near the dynamite and I turned around and jumped. But it was a little too late and I was injured. And then I realized that there must be some reason why I was spared. And that's when I decided that I'll devote a good part of my life after I have a chance to make some money into serving other people. The people who were suffering. And that was my way of paying back.

John R. Miles (13:29)

And I think the quote that you were talking about is there's nothing right about war. It's about who is left. Yes, I can understand your feeling. Having been injured myself when I was in service and the deep reflections that it had for me in my life. And a call to someday do service to others, which I try to do through this podcast. I recently had an interesting guest, George Appling, whose episode will air before yours. And he has this new book called Don't Settle. And he talks about that there are five paths that you can take if you eventually want your passion to become your livelihood. And one of them that he talks about is the balanced approach, where you've got this long term goal, this passion that you want to create. But it's balanced because you realize you need a funding source in order to do it. And so you initially go off on a path to create that funding source. And that's exactly what you ended up doing. Can you talk? We'll get into that more, but can you talk about how you went from the Himalayas to NYU University Just a few years later, I left the army.

Dr. Abraham George (14:51)

Soon after I managed to get out and come to the United States and at to start from the beginning, studying college. I went to NYU and spent seven years doing my master's and doctorate and all that. And I joined a bank. And my goal was to make sufficient money that I can do this, what I'm doing today. And I realized that as much as I heart for it, that's not enough. I must have the means to do it. And so that's what I did for the next 25 years. But then I realized that I hadn't fulfilled my own promise to myself that I will do service. And so before I turned 50, I had. I said, here it is. I sold my company, I got out of everything and somebody told me to come to Bangalore, which is a city close by here where I am, I'm in a village. My connections are not the greatest. It's a remote place. And I started a foundation and got myself going with that. And ever since, for the last 30 years I've been living here and couple of months I come back to the United States and spend some time and then come back here. So I'm living right now in the midst of a lot of children and a lot of people in the village. And I am surrounded by poor people in the remote villages.

John R. Miles (16:26)

So I wanted to ask Abraham, when you were on this, I guess this stretch where you had this successful career in the US you end up selling your company to sungart. If I have it correct, was there a defining moment that compelled you to take that leap? Like, why did you do it? When you did it, you could have done it earlier, you could have done it later.

Narrator (16:48)

Why?

John R. Miles (16:48)

In that moment.

Dr. Abraham George (16:51)

I thought I could make sufficient money in 10 years. It became 20 years and then finally it became almost 30 years. And I said, this is it. Whatever money I've made, that's enough. I'm going with it. So the defining point was my feeling that I have now, I gotta get started, otherwise I'll be too old. And secondly, the money I've made by selling my company would be sufficient to establish what I have done.

John R. Miles (17:21)

I just want to pause there because I think a lot of listeners who might be tuning in might feel like they have a bigger calling, a leap that they want to take themselves, yet they get stuck because they say, when will I have enough money? When will I have the time to do it? When will be the right opportunity for me to go out and try to do this? What's your recommendation to them?

Dr. Abraham George (17:48)

Well, unless you are a very rich person with billions of dollars, I suppose you'll never have enough money. You've got to get started and you have to put your foot in. And then you show to the world outside that you mean what you're doing and you are committed to it. And then you reach out to others to help you. That's what I did. After 15, 18 years, I started fundraising. By then, I had established the infrastructure. The children were here in the school that I started and a couple of other projects. And I could tell my story to others, and they could see that I have, I mean, business. I mean what I was trying to preach. And so once people saw what I was doing was sincere, they came forward to help me. So the last 15 years or so, the foundation is funded not just by my money, but by hundreds, hundreds of donors, both in the United States and a few in India. Actually, the biggest donors are in America. Lot of individuals. In fact, if I am not mistaken, maybe close to 500 or more donors. Individuals, not corporations. Individuals in America, they come forward with small amounts and large amounts. Those who can afford, they give more. So we are able to do it. So the answer to your question is, you can't keep on waiting. At some point you have to say, okay, this is what I have. This is what I can do. And then I will demonstrate that to others and convince them that I can be their agent.

John R. Miles (19:35)

Earlier in my career, before I started doing this, I used to be a executive in technology. And so I started going to India way back in 2001. 2002, time frame. And I've been all throughout the country. I've obviously been to Bangalore, probably more than anywhere else. But I've been to Hyderabad, I've been to Chennai, I've been to Goa, I've been to Delhi. But one of my favorite areas was southern India. Trivendrum in the.

Dr. Abraham George (20:07)

I guess that's where I was born. That's where I was born. Trivandra.

John R. Miles (20:12)

It's beautiful down there with all the backwaters and being on. I guess it's how many different bodies of water converge at the point.

Dr. Abraham George (20:23)

The three oceans converge close by. The Indian Ocean, the Bay of Bengal and Arabian Sea. They are all coming to that tip of India. We're very close to Truantrop. Yes.

John R. Miles (20:36)

Well, when I was on travel I used to go down there and I would rent a houseboat for the weekend and my Indian friends would come and join me and we go on the backwaters and it was such a beautiful time. But while I was there I witnessed kind of two different dimensions. You had all the beauty and you had those who had a lot. And then you could see as you were going into different villages the difference between the have and the have not. If, if that's fair to say. And it seems 65, 70% of India is at a lower class or lower income level than some of those that you would see in the bigger cities.

Dr. Abraham George (21:23)

That is correct. According to the statistics, 70%, 70% of the people are classified as some form of lower caste. The caste system exists in India even though you cannot, you are not allowed to discriminate. But people's minds, yes, they. Even the government asks for your castes in the application form. So the cast exists and 70% of them are so called lower castes. Out of which I would say more than half the people of India live less than $5 a day for a family. And what you witnessed outside of the city, outside of Trivandrum in the villages is exactly what you see elsewhere. In fact, the state you went to is Kerala. And that state is actually a little more prosperous than some of the other states. And you will find absolute poverty for many people. And then you'll find people try to survive on $5 a day. And then you have another dimension to it that is the caste system. And people are discriminated based on, you know, how they are classified. Many villages don't let you come and take water from the well where the upper castes come. And a lot of issues without getting into it, what I have, I always think of what I've. That social discrimination is one of the reasons why poverty exists. When people don't have the opportunity to go to a good school or poorly, they don't have the status to travel in a bus along with children of upper caste or sit in a Classroom separately and so on. And they can't get jobs very easily, they don't have the training. So the social discrimination as one if not the main factor for poverty and the other thing I learned is that in order to break social discrimination, any amount of preaching in church or temple, it's not going to do the job. Empowering them economically is the way and I felt there's no better way to empower the social underclock, underclass than a good education. So I have chosen to create one of the best schools anyway for people of disadvantaged people. And I don't know whether you are aware, some of our children are studying in Ivy League today. The children who came from one room hut ended up in Princeton and Stanford and so on and of course in India too number of colleges. So and that tells you that even the poorest, if you provide a very good education and upbringing, they too can succeed. Just children of from the affluent society.

John R. Miles (24:28)

I'm going to get into Shanti Bhavan here in a second. I did want to ask one question because a lot of my audience comes from the United States and Canada and Ireland and the United Kingdom. And I think you often hear a lot of self improvement people talk about it doesn't matter what zip code you're born into, you can create the life you want. We hear that a lot because even in developed countries you still have a social economic hierarchy of depending on where you were born, what your initial starting point is. But in India, can you explain how it's different than that? So if you're born into this lower caste class, and I understand now that the cast aren't supposed to be a thing anymore, although they still are, how does that differ from someone who might have been born in the United States in a low income situation?

Dr. Abraham George (25:33)

Well in the United States don't have a caste system. You have a class system. And the class system and the racial prejudices people have racial prejudice of people of darker skin. You identify them by the color. But in India you don't identify by the color because the rich guy from an upper caste can have a dark color too. You identify by hundreds and hundreds of years of family status and where they live. In fact the caste system in India, it traces back to 1500 years. It's in the Rig Vedas or the in ancient scriptures where the class of the various classes or castes were created. The people who owned the land and so on and they wanted somebody to work for you and then you needed somebody else to clean your fecal matter and so on and Latrines and things like that. So they created the caste system for people to be employed in various things. And then they said, okay, if you belong to these lower castes, you can come anywhere near me. And so they created a system and it's a little bit of it is in the religion itself. But when India became independent, the government said you cannot discriminate on the basis of caste. But the government did not, by constitution, did not eliminate caste. So even today the caste system exists. And if you discriminate, of course you can bring someone to court. But the, you know, if you're born into a certain cast, you stay there unless you are very, you break out of it with your education and your job and you go to another city, you live well and nobody knows, and then you are out of the cast. But if you live in the village, in the same place, you belong to the low caste.

John R. Miles (27:35)

Okay, and so what you created, Shanti Bhavan, I understand the words mean haven of peace. And you envisioned a space where caste, class and religion didn't matter. As you were starting the creation of this, what were the biggest challenges that you faced to develop such an environment and how did you overcome them?

Dr. Abraham George (27:58)

I chose a place, a remote village away from the cities where poverty was rampant. That was one of my criteria for establishing this place. And where more than 60% belong to the so called 60 or 70% belong to the so called lower caste. And so that is where I established my school. Now the villages around there are landlords and people had more money than all these people. And they have been enjoying cheap labor from of these lower castes. They have to work in the fields for them. And lot of them, we became bonded laborers because they wanted some money for something, the child or medical care or fixing up the house, a hut or something. And they would lend the money and then they can't pay back. And then you become a bonded laborer. That is you have to work with no salary, they feed you a little bit and until an equivalent amount is created by your labor and then you are out of the bonded status, by then you have borrowed more and it goes on. So my criteria was to find a place where poverty really exists and do the transformation there. As you pointed out, rightly pointed out, my children studying in the school come from different religions, different communities, different parts of southern India. Frankly, I don't know which kid is what religion. I never bothered to ask them. I never asked them what caste they are. I know that 95% of them belong to the lower caste. I know that by the records they have but I never go and check it. They are all beautiful children and my goal is to give them self confidence, self esteem and tell them that caste doesn't exist. That's a man made creation to oppress others and very soon the children believe that and then they say okay, I am just as beautiful, I'm just as good as anyone else and they work hard and try to have a good future.

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John R. Miles (31:45)

And I want to go into it a little bit more. I've heard you now a couple times refer to the kids who are there as children, not as students. How has fostering and you use that word children intentionally? How does fostering that familial relationship contribute to their success?

Dr. Abraham George (32:06)

To this day, these last 30 years, I never addressed them as anything other than children or my children. I think of them as my two sons I have and it has created a bond with me. I treat them with love and they reciprocate with love. That doesn't mean that I'm not strict when I need to. That doesn't mean that I don't correct them and always pampering them. No, I guide them but Never do I address them anything other than children. They are my children. And when you do that, they realize how much you care for them. And that's the reason.

John R. Miles (32:52)

One of the core things that you have focused on has been education, and particularly education for girls, which is central to your mission. How has that focus impacted the broader communities served by Shanti Bhavan?

Dr. Abraham George (33:10)

There are other considerations in the upbringing of the children. There are three pillars to my program here. One is excellence in education. The second is leadership qualities and personal your ability to communicate and interpersonal skills and character and so on. But there is one more thing that is equally important and that is developing humane values. The kindness, generosity, humility, willing to compassion. These are things that schools normally don't spend much time because that's not their mission. That start at home. And since we are the home for the children from 4 years of age to until they get jobs, we have to bring them up correctly. So yes, education, leadership and humane values, all three are emphasized.

John R. Miles (34:01)

Well, that's great. And I was asking you, in addition to education, educating women or girls is a central part of your mission. And I was asking how is that focus on educating and bringing up girls focus, the broader impact that you've had?

Dr. Abraham George (34:20)

Well, the school has equal number of boys and girls and they live in the same campus where the girls dorm is hardly a couple of hundred yards away from the boys. The reason is we want them to grow up from very young age. They're familiar with each other and so that they, when they are set free and go to colleges and so on, they don't have this unnecessary notions about the other sex. So the children think of girls, think of themselves as just as smart as, just as good as boys. They think of each other as brothers and sisters. Though I will admit that there is a lot of romance sometimes there's nothing you can avoid, something you can't avoid at teenage years. But that's all fine and we make sure it doesn't get out of control so they grow up. By the time they go to college, they have mutual respect. They if a boy addresses a girl in a demeaning way, he's in big trouble. So in fact, the girls, many people complain, are more, I mean, they're stronger than the boys in some respects. So it's fun. There's no problem at all when you bring them up together and let them know that they are all both equal.

John R. Miles (35:43)

So when you first started this, how many students were in some of the original classes and how much has it grown over the years?

Dr. Abraham George (35:54)

We realized that, oh, I was of the opinion, reading literature and so on, you cannot bring about major change unless in their personality, their character and their, even their education, unless you take them at a very young age. And so we take them when they are three and a half, four years of age. So at a given time only 30 children are taken and every year it has to grow. And right now there are over 300 children in one school and we just started the second school. There are 60 children in the second school that will also grow into 320 children. So altogether there'll be 600 plus children in both schools combined.

John R. Miles (36:44)

And I understand that initially you were self funding this from the money that you had made from the sale of your company. But then like so many of us in 2008, 2009, you've got severely impacted by the global recession that ended up happening and you ended up losing millions of dollars of your personal wealth to the point that you were in real jeopardy that you might not be able to fund this anymore. Can you talk about that moment? Because I think that's another thing that happens to people. They get going, they start to see some traction and then something, a major challenge faces them. Like you were faced with where you could have given up. You could have said, I don't know how I'm going to continue this. But another path emerged and I was hoping you could share a little bit about that story.

Dr. Abraham George (37:42)

Definitely, definitely. I initially started with Shanti Bhavan, which is the school for children from deprived communities. But as I got going, I realized there are so many interrelated problems. For example, the women in the villages, they were extremely poor, they didn't have jobs, they were working for landlords. So I started a banana cultivation of almost 200 acres. We were harvesting tons and tons of bananas. Unfortunately, the rain stopped with climate change and everything, and I got into trouble there. Then I realized that one of the reason for poverty is bad governance. And I felt that maybe I should start a postgraduate journalism college. And so we built the facilities and it turned out to become the best journalism postgraduate college in India. Then I was doing that, I realized that people, the villages have to travel a long way to get medical care and there is nothing close by. So I started a hospital close by like that, one after the other. But one of the most important things I did was in the area of lead poisoning. The cities were suffering from pollution and lead was one of the major pollutants in the late 90s. And so I went to World bank and others and CDC and they trained me on that and I brought equipment and did some 20,000 children. Blood test was done and that led to a conference at which we persuaded the oil companies to come. And they came and announced that within a year and a half they will introduce unleaded gasoline. And today India is unleaded. So I got myself into so many projects with my own money and in some ways it was a mistake. And I also thought that the properties I brought by the beachfront, there are only so many properties by the beachfront, so it'll never go down in value. Well, Katrina came along and then the subprime crisis came along and all the values of properties fell by more than 50%. So all my investment in real estate went to docs and then stock market collapsed on me. And so one thing after another is a cascade and I lost a great significant part of my wealth. And in the meantime, I was spending millions of dollars here in India and I realized that I couldn't sustain it. So I started selling everything and sold all my property, including my house in America, and put it into running the institutions here without closing many of them, one or two. I reduced the staffing and kept it going while my son, my older of the two boys, Ajit, he left his work and joined me in starting a fundraising effort. And miraculously, within two, three years, he found success. People were willing to listen to his story, maybe because I had already done quite a bit of work in this area and people felt convinced that I'm doing something honestly. And therefore, since 2010, we started receiving a lot of donations and today we are stronger than ever. In some ways. What happened to me was a blessing in disguise. The school and all the projects are not mine alone. It's owned by, in theory, it's owned by everyone who contributes to it. So in that sense, I brought the community of well wishers to a cause that meant something for them too, not just a personal project. And I think that's a way to do it. Try to do it all by yourself, even if you have money, is not necessarily the right way to do because you want to attract ideas and criticisms and everything else. And you have someone to report to the board and make sure that you keep yourself honest.

John R. Miles (42:12)

So that was a big turning point. You turn that situation into really a triumph because it went from more focused on you funding it to now you had a community behind you that was helping you do this. And I guess that community is also important to the lasting legacy of this, because this will live on long after you and I have passed would be the hope, correct?

Dr. Abraham George (42:40)

Absolutely. One of the pressing issues in my mind is that in the next 10, 15 years, I have to transition to the next set of managers, next set of people who might train and so on. So we already started on that. My son is there, but he cannot do it himself. The same thing. He has to have many people surround him who will do a good job. And honestly. So the transition is just as important. And you have to recognize that you don't live forever. So I'm working on that.

John R. Miles (43:15)

And one of the other things that happened that has brought attention to this is the Netflix documentary which you mentioned at the beginning, Daughters of Destiny. But my understanding is this had kind of an interesting path, because it wasn't as if Netflix came out there, filmed this in 30 days, and then released it. My understanding is they were filming this for a period of six or seven years. Is my background correct on that?

Dr. Abraham George (43:44)

Absolutely correct. Some magical reason, one of the Academy Award winners, Vanessa Roth, discovered us, and she said she would like to spend time, send us the camera crew and all of that, and she herself and shoot the film. And she was shooting both boys and girls, and she realized that she needs to track them. You can't just take a snapshot and forget about it. So she kept going. And after a while, this camera crew was living with us, literally. And we didn't even think of them as part of some outside force. They were there. Everything we did, they were shooting. And they collected a story, which we didn't know what it was. And the day before that came Netflix released. They asked us to come for a showing. That was the first time we saw the film. And so when you see that, this Daughter's Destiny, you realize that there is nothing staged, no acting. It was just the true story. Children's voice, our voice, neighbor's voice, parents voice, everything in there, the hard truth. And that's why this film became very popular all over. And so that is the history of these seven years of shooting.

John R. Miles (45:07)

And it ended up winning an Emmy Award. If I have my background, Television with.

Dr. Abraham George (45:14)

A conscience is an Academy Emmy Award. Yes.

John R. Miles (45:18)

Fantastic. I bet, Abraham, you never thought you were going to be a star in a reality TV show.

Dr. Abraham George (45:25)

Well, I am on your show. Right. That itself is a privilege.

John R. Miles (45:30)

So a lot of people don't have the wealth that you had built up to secure funding for something that they want to pursue, like you did with Shanti Bhavan. What advice would you give to others on how do you create a sustainable nonprofit? Meaning if you could go back in time and do this over again, would you approach it differently?

Dr. Abraham George (45:53)

If you have the money, you must be willing to spend a good portion of it and create the infrastructure, create the base for it that others can appreciate. But if you don't have the money, you need to right from the start, you need to partner with someone who has some money. Without money, it's a little hard. I'm not saying it's impossible. If you are a very highly motivating person, you can maybe start fundraising even before you have anything to show. But that's a big challenge. You will have to work for some other NGO and be part of their organization. Starting something of your own with no money in your pocket or very little money in your pocket, it's a big challenge. I wouldn't advise anyone to do that. Find a partnership organization or join a group of people who have deep pockets and say to them, listen, you have the money, I have the commitment. I will deliver what we both agree on. Help me and show from the start that you will do what you promised.

John R. Miles (47:03)

Okay, Another thing I wanted to talk about is, and we're going to get to your results here in a second. But when you started, having been to India many times, phenomenal infrastructure and Silicon Valley like things and cars and wealth, and then on the other hand, complete and utter lack of infrastructure, poverty. I've never seen anything like India and all my travels, maybe a few other countries. But there's such a huge difference between some of the big cities and the rural areas that you run this in. So as you were starting this out, you had to navigate huge systematic issues. We've talked about the caste discrimination, poverty, but also you were dealing with a lack of infrastructure. How did you go about creating this when you were facing so many challenges?

Dr. Abraham George (48:07)

I am amazed that you know so much about India that I don't have to tell you. But anyway, what you observed is correct. Once you come out of the major cities like Bangalore and hardly 20 km, everything there is no infrastructure at all. People are living in huts, the roads are full of potholes and no real shops and so on. So when I first discovered this piece of land in this village, there was no electricity, there was no water supply, the telephone lines, some cell phone would work from top of some hill. That's where I started. And there were no roads properly and I had to do almost everything. We decided to use solar power. In fact, the British Petroleum, which had solar panels, we bought from them. And later on, when we started running the entire school on solar, 30 years ago, when nobody was talking about solar The British Petroleum came and took a film and showed it at G8 summit where President Nelson and President Clinton were having their summit. So a little historic footnote about our solar effort and telephone lines got improved over time as the cell phone industry got going. And water. We have deep wells. Some of those wells go down as deep as 1,000ft. We have a whole lot of wells and we pump the wells and today we pump the water out with solar panels. So we again, we are not using electricity from the public service. So you find solutions. And then the road, the nearest four or five kilometers to our school was impossible to navigate with all those potholes. So after trying for five years trying to get the government to do something they weren't doing. So we just had to spend the money and build the road, charred road. That's how we got here. So we overcame many hurdles. But that's part of living in a remote area. And if you find solutions one by one, you will be able to move forward.

John R. Miles (50:26)

Well, I think what you've just taught us is an important lesson. Oftentimes when you start an initiative like you did, it can be overwhelming because you realize how many different things have to get done. But I think something that you just talked about is important. You tackled these one by one as they came along. You didn't try to do everything at one time. You tried to solve one problem that got you to another momentum point. Then you worked on another problem, got you to another point, and so on and so forth. And you had to employ a lot of ingenuity in order to get this done and creativity and how you approached it. So I think those are important lessons as well.

Dr. Abraham George (51:14)

Yes, absolutely. But you have to be patient, especially in rural area trying to de government, nothing happens. Sometimes you, you just can't get frustrated and contractors don't want to work in remote rural areas. There are so many hurdles you had to overcome. And you saw our panel is a perfect example where we didn't have to rely on too many people, buy from British Petroleum and put them up and it produces energy. So some solutions are much easier.

John R. Miles (51:46)

So I want to start talking a little bit about the impact. So in my introduction I talk about that you have positively influenced the lives of 15,000 children, some who are now adults. And you also mentioned earlier on that some of these students have gone from the lowest caste in India to Ivy League schools and now earning advanced degrees and beyond. I wanted to maybe focus on a couple of the stories of some of the graduates. One of the ones I know, Shilpa Wrote a memoir called the Elephant Chaser's Daughter and is now pursuing a PhD. Maybe Shilpa has completed the PhD. How does her story and others like hers reinforce your mission and inspire you to continue your work?

Dr. Abraham George (52:40)

Shilpa is one of the great success stories coming from one of the poorest, a father. He's an elephant chaser. That's why a book is called the Elephant Chase's Daughter. The elephants come into his village and he is asked to chase them away by the government by bursting crackers. A lot of them get killed too. But anyway, they were living in utter poverty. But this girl was really smart and she went on to take two masters and come to Hofstra University for her PhD. This is her last year, sixth year clinical psychology. She'll be a doctor next year. And she wrote this Marvelous Book Ages 5th Elephant Jesus Daughter which is right now I think Kindle is running like 4.6 out of a score of 5 in ranking. So she's 1. There are other kids whose mother was burned herself because she was raped by some people. And we picked him up and did some plastic surgery and things like that. And he's now a middle level manager in a technology company. There are others who, who are orphaned. There's one girl who was an orphan and we took her and we got her through her college and today she's somewhere in I believe in Dubai. She is running a real estate firm. So they're gone into different things, some in technology, some in psychology, some in business and so on. They are in Google, they are in Amazon, they are in Microsoft, they are in ExxonMobil. Every company would like to take them when they go for interview because our children display a certain level of self confidence. Their communication skills are excellent and they are humble. So the combination of all these things and intercommunication skills are high. So all combination of these things make them very attractive when they get hired and they compete with other students from well to do families. And our kids get selected. Now you pointed out that and now there are 12 of them in the last three years joined American colleges in full scholarship just to name a few. Princeton, University of Chicago, Stanford, Duke, Middlebury, I don't know 12 of them. And this year we have another five. We're expecting them to get over 95% in SAT and do well in interviews and the essays and get on merit. The lesson, John, if I can tell the audience this is, this is one of the most rewarding parts of my work and that is that you take children from this absolute poverty and transform them for good enough to be in Princeton or Stanford or any of these places. I mentioned, how is it possible? People asked me and I said nothing magical. You just got to bring them upright, give them lots of love and caring and provide an excellent education. Instill self confidence in them and their communication skills and try to make them as honest as possible and kind and caring. If you work on all these things. That's why I have to stay here 10 months in a year and only go two months. I'm not the only one. There are so many others working with me. But the biggest challenge I have is not the children, John. It's not the children. It's the staff. It's the staff. I have to bring them into that culture and that mission. And if you have 70, 80 people working on the same thing and children are noticing how they are and how they treat the children, magic happens. That is the secret. The children are not my problem. It's much less problem.

John R. Miles (56:44)

I love that. And I want to go back to something you said earlier on that in addition to the education, what you're really trying to instill in the children is leadership qualities. And the other thing you talked about is core values. You wanted to make sure that humility, emotional intelligence, kindness, gratitude, those things are important to them. And this leads me to. There's got to be a huge multiplying effect that this has had not only on the graduates, but how it's contributed to the broader social change in their communities and beyond. Can you talk a little bit about how this has changed their families and maybe even their villages by having their success help others in their community?

Dr. Abraham George (57:40)

Amazing. You touched upon the most important point. I forgot to tell you, but you touched upon the most important point. That is, it's one thing to bring about great success in a few children or hundreds of children, but where the true impact is how they touch others. One of the things we instill in them right from childhood, that they have a moral duty because they are beneficiaries of other people's kindness. They have a moral duty to be kind and generous to others. So we tell them in your lifetime, maybe not in the first five years, when you're trying to fix your homes and get your parents out of poverty, that's all fine, but in your lifetime you must carry at least 100 others with you. And that is a moral duty you have. And yes, already these children have taken their families who are graduated working, they've taken them out of poverty. They are no more living in those broken down Huts. If they were living in a. They improved that and added rooms and toilets and kitchen and so on, because they used to go to toilets somewhere in the field and keep cooking outside and so on. All that has changed. They buy clothes for their parents, they put them on medical insurance and all those things they have done for their families. But they can get their sisters married. India has a dowry system, which is terrible, but you have to pay money to get your daughter married. They pay for it. They educate their siblings in college and on. And then they are involved in other projects that are available to serve the community or someone outside the community, their own community. I tell them, listen, don't talk about your blood relationship. You can't go around testing somebody's blood to see whether your DNA matches. But your job is to help as many people as possible, regardless of where they are. It doesn't have to be in India. It can be in Africa. It can be in the inner city of America. Wherever you can, you have a moral duty to help. So that is a. That's a core value we try to inculcate in them. And the children, for their part, they are in their initial years of their careers. They already started doing it. I am not promising that every child will do it. Even if a good majority does it. That will be wonderful. They will be change makers of tomorrow. They will contribute to society and the world at large.

John R. Miles (60:25)

It's just so inspiring what you have done, Abraham and I love to bring on what I consider to be everyday heroes on this show to really highlight the work that you're doing to show other people that they also can make change. And I think something that you've said is important. All you got to do is create change in one person's life and it creates a ripple effect onto others that can influence communities and the world beyond. And I know one of your favorite messages is the importance of a world only a heart can build. And it's really balancing compassion with creating solutions for complex societal changes. So on that world only a heart can build line, what would be your advice to listeners out there? So we can create more people to create a world only a heart can build?

Dr. Abraham George (61:32)

I think I can speak for myself, but that is, I found great joy in improving the lives of people through service, in this case to children or the village women or whoever who is unemployed and so on. There is a certain joy that comes with transforming their lives. And you see it in their eyes. I can't describe it more than that, but the point is this. If you have the means to reach out, touch someone. You are not going to get poorer by just spending some money to help a few. Do it by all means and see the happiness that comes from it. At least I find it. I hope others find it. And if you assume that half the world is poor and the other half is reasonably well off and everybody contributes one or two dollars a day, there'll be no poor people in this planet. There is enough number of people, 78 billion people, 4 billion people. Out of that, half of them give a couple of dollars a day. We will solve poverty, but we are not doing it. So I would say when you can help others do it and find the happiness from it, it's not just a religious issue, it's a moral issue. It's something that compassion in action. Compassion in action is just feeling sorry for somebody doesn't do the job. You have to act on it. And a small act like what I just described can make a difference. And if everyone does it, we will be a much, much happier world.

John R. Miles (63:14)

So, Abraham, the last thing I wanted to cover is beyond Shanti Bhavan. You've established the Indian Institute of Journalism and New Media and the Valdev Medical Center. How do those initiatives complement your mission of addressing systematic poverty and inequality?

Dr. Abraham George (63:32)

They are all interrelated. A free press like yours that addresses issues and challenges government policies if they are wrong and bring out the corruption. If you do that, you will have better governance. And I feel that one of the reasons for poverty is bad governance. If you're talking about Balde Medical, poor people don't go to a doctor unless they are really sick. But if you go to them, to their huts and look at them and say, you got this problem, Let me do a blood test on you and take care of them, or they can walk up to your clinic, it'll make a big difference to their health. That's another moral duty. You have to make sure that people don't suffer. Suffering. Poverty has different dimensions. It's not hunger, it's suffering and even indignity of being in a lower caste that is also part of poverty. So I find all these activities that I embarked on, they're closely interrelated. Though you may not see see it as such. I mean, only one somebody may argue that I did doesn't fit in with poverty is lead poisoning. That's an urban problem more than anything else. But I would argue even there, who suffers most is the poor people in slums who have no way of protecting themselves, who are right next to a factory that is fabricating lead they are the ones who are suffering. So it's also a poverty issue. So everything I've done as some connection may not be directly visible, but some of them are directly connected.

John R. Miles (65:11)

Okay, well, thank you for that. And this leads to my last question. Abraham, for you, what does legacy mean and how do you hope Shanti Bhavan and your other initiatives will continue to make an impact for generations to come?

Dr. Abraham George (65:26)

I am not that worried or concerned about my personal legacy. I like to leave behind an institution, Shanti Bhavan and some of the other projects that will last for hundreds of years, that will change people's lives, that will bring joy to people who never had anything. If others would carry that forward, that'll be great. And what I have done, if it appeals to people and they will be attracted to join this crusade, that will be wonderful. So what I hope to see is this mission carrying forward with the help of millions of others, and we transform the lives of those who are suffering and who are deprived. And that will be my greatest wish. I don't personally don't care what happens about my name. That's not as important.

John R. Miles (66:24)

Abraham, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so glad that we could highlight the accomplishments that you and your community are making. Thank you for joining us today on Passion Struck.

Dr. Abraham George (66:35)

Thank you. John, I just want to say I am truly amazed at your knowledge. Not only India, but the issues that you pointed out and you hit right on the things that. That I would like to talk about. You gave me the opportunity. I'm very thankful to you.

John R. Miles (66:50)

Oh, you're so kind and you're very welcome. Again, it was my honor to showcase your work to the world. So thank you again so much for being here.

Dr. Abraham George (67:00)

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye.

Narrator (67:03)

Thank you for joining me on this very special holiday episode of the Passion Struck podcast. As we reflect on Dr. George's incredible journey, I hope his story reminds you of the profound impact we can create when we align our actions with our values and dedicate ourselves to a purpose greater than ourselves. Dr. George's work is a testament to the transformative power of passion, resilience, and intentional vision. Whether it's through education, social justice, or the everyday choices we make, each of us has the power to ignite meaningful change in the lives of others and within our own communities. As you celebrate this holiday season and prepare for the year ahead, take a moment to consider how you can become Passion Struck in your own life. What steps can you take to live with greater intention? How can you use your unique skills and passions to make a lasting difference. Dr. George's story is a call to action for all of us. His belief that education, especially for young girls, can break generational cycles of poverty is not just inspiring, it's a roadmap for meaningful change. For more on Dr. Abraham George's incredible work, including the Legacy of Shanti Bhavan and his books like India Untouched, check out the show notes@passionstruck.com Be sure to explore our YouTube channel for today's episode and many more, and visit passionstruck.com deals for exclusive offers from our sponsors. Supporting them helps keep Passion Struck thriving and allows us to bring you conversations like this one. Looking to deepen your journey? Head over to passionstruck.com and take the Passion Struck Quiz to see where you are on your path to living an intentional, purpose driven life. Sign up for our Live Intentionally newsletter for weekly insights, actionable exercises and the Courage Challenge. To put these lessons into practice, you can connect with me on Twitter and Instagram at johnrmiles or find me on LinkedIn. I'd love to hear how Dr. George's story inspired you and what changes you're inspired to make in your own life. If you found value in today's conversation, please rate and review the show with five stars and share this episode with someone who would be inspired by Dr. George's incredible story. Your support helps expand our community and amplify our mission to empower people to live intentional, impactful lives. Now here's a sneak peek at what's coming up next on Passion Struck. I'm joined by James Arthur Ray and Bersa Bay Ray who will share insights from their groundbreaking work God, Money and Sex, Understanding and Mastering the Three Human Dilemmas. Together we'll explore how these three forces shape our lives and uncover practical solutions to navigate them. You won't want to miss it.

Dr. Abraham George (69:28)

I was supposedly worth north of $20 million. I had a 7,500 square foot estate in Beverly Hills. I had all the accoutrements and they.

John R. Miles (69:38)

Were gone like that.

Dr. Abraham George (69:40)

Just like that. And so what value do they have?

John R. Miles (69:45)

They don't.

Dr. Abraham George (69:46)

Everything in this world is transitory. The only thing that has true and.

John R. Miles (69:50)

Lasting value are those things which can.

Dr. Abraham George (69:53)

Never be lost or taken. And those things are not ever outside, they're inside.

John R. Miles (69:57)

If it can be lost or taken.

Dr. Abraham George (70:00)

It has use value. You can use them and enjoy them, but they don't have any intrinsic value. I got carried away with all the fame and the success to a degree and I got sucked into the system. I had to step Back when I was standing in the desert, homeless and alone and $20 million in debt in 2013, I had to do a deep dive and say, what's James Arthur Ray 3.0 going to be? Which presupposes there was a 2.0 and a 1.0, which are different stories. Who is he going to be? What's he going to be about?

Narrator (70:33)

Thank you as always for spending time with us today and for being part of the Passion Start community. Remember, the lessons you learn here are only as powerful as the actions you take. Have a joyful and meaningful holiday season and as always, always live life. Passion struck.

Dr. Abraham George (71:01)

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Narrator (71:26)

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Dr. Abraham George (71:28)

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Narrator (71:29)

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Dr. Abraham George (71:44)

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Dr. Abraham George (71:51)

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