A (4:49)

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B (4:53)

A line per month when you switch.

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With eligible trade ins.

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All on America's largest 5G network. Minimum of 4 lines for 25 per line per month with auto pay discount using debit or bank account, $5 more per line without auto pay plus taxes and fees and $10 device connection charge phones via 24 monthly bill credits for well qualified customers. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on a required finance agreement due bill credits end if you pay off devices early. CT mobile.com guys the only thing worse than losing your hair is waiting forever for it to grow back. That's why you need HIMS where you can start seeing results in just 3 to 6 months. HIMSs offers doctor trusted clinically proven hair loss treatments with ingredients like Minoxidil and finasteride that actually work. The best part? The whole process is done from the comfort of your couch. You can choose chewable oral spray or serum options to fit your routine. It's 100% online. Just answer a few questions and a medical provider will determine if treatment is right for you. If prescribed, your treatment is discreetly delivered right to your door. Start your free online Visit today@hisss.com Passionstruck that's hims.com Passionstruck for your personalized hair loss treatment options. Results vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride prescription products require an online consultation with a healthcare provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. I am so excited today to welcome Susan Gro to Passion Struck. Welcome Susan.

A (6:42)

Thank you John. I'm happy to be here.

B (6:44)

Susan, I'm going to open this up with a question that I like to use because for you I think it leads right into our discussion today. You are the author of the new book Infinite Life, Infinite Lessons, which we're going to be discussing today and you open the book out talking about a moment that defined you. Your near death experience as a child was a pivotal moment in your life. Can you take us back to that day and share with us how it shaped your understanding of the afterlife and set you on the path to become an intuitive medium?

A (7:20)

Absolutely. Always could see things and my whole family has this gift and so it wasn't foreign to me but what happened to me was I was playing with some boys and they said if I wanted to, can you continue to play That I had to get some popsicles. And they opened up the garage door and I went in and I climbed into the freezer and it was unplugged. And I was too little to understand. I wasn't even quite. I was four and a half, almost five. And I heard the freezer door slam shut. And I thought I was in on a game. I thought they were playing. And then I heard the garage door thud. And I recognized, I'm not playing a game right now. This is real serious. And I innately knew that I was in definite trouble. And I actually had the feeling like I'm going to die. Like that horror, that terror. During this time, my mother said, in our garage was separated from the house. And during this time, my mother said to me that she had heard a scream. It was a very loud, high pitched sound, almost like a cat in heat. And we had cats on our land. So that's what my mother thought was going on. And that's the sound of terror, is that high pitched. It's terror. And I was facing inward so nobody could hear me. So all the coils were in front of me. And I just kept screaming. And after a while, which was quite a while, I saw three lights. They were beautiful. And I heard. Stop screaming. Of course, I didn't listen. I was still terrified. And I kept screaming. And then I heard one light. And I say, heard. It was like telepathy. And it said, stop screaming. We're going to get your mommy. And I, like I understood it as. But first they didn't say that, but I felt that. And I was lifted from my body, but it was so quick that I didn't look back. I didn't see my body. I've always wondered why I had didn't. And I was at the bottom of a stairwell and I was looking up these stairs and I. It was like a Greco Roman room. I don't know how else to describe it. And I, of course, didn't understand that as a child. So everything I'm telling you right now, I understand now as an adult. But as child, it was just a beautiful broken room. It had all these pillars and it was just lovely. And I knew I had to get to the top of those stairs because I knew there was something there. And I thought it was a well. And I studied under Raymond Moody and he said to me, have you ever thought the well was a tunnel? Because I said, I never saw a tunnel. And I was shocked. I was like, what? It took me. I was overwhelmed by what he said. And I Now I recognize that must have been the tunnel. And I was. And the next thing I knew, I was at the edge of this well. And I was watching words through what I thought were eyes. And they were intermingling like DNA, twisting and turning. And I heard things like, my mommy has cancer. Please, God, don't let her die. And I'm going to turn 16. And my dad, it doesn't want to get me a car. And please, God, make him give me a car. And all these different prayers, desires is what I called them. And I looked over at these lights to my left and I call them my angels. And I said, where am I? And they said, you're in the room of heart's desires. And I said, do you answer all those? And they said, no, Susie. Sometimes what people desire the most isn't good for them. I didn't like hearing that because my mom used to say that to me or did say that to me. And so I was a little bit in shock and I thought, am I dreaming? And then I felt this completely different feeling. I knew that I was somewhere else. And I didn't feel fear. And I knew it was me. I knew who I was. I took me with me. And then I flashed on this beautiful road that I called the Yellow Brick Road. And I still do to this day because I had seen the wizard of Oz, and I saw pavers, golden pavers. And I saw pyramids at the front of this road. And people were coming to this pyramid and pulling from the bottom and then trying to pave their path. And it was bumpy and crooked. And I just was standing there watching this. And then I saw people dropping to their knees. And I believe I innately knew at that time that was their life journey. And they were pulling from the bottom of this pyramid, which was unbalancing it like a gang of Jenga, even though Jenga didn't exist at the time. And I heard them, you know, dropped. I saw them drop to their knees. And I knew this was metaphorical and they were helping me understand. And I. I watched. They said, for the love of God, please help me. Nothing's working out. Nothing's going my way. And I could feel the angst, but I wasn't upset by it, which is so odd to me still. And I watched these beautiful beans come in and they pulled the pavers out of these paths and they went to the bottom of this pyramid and put them back, and they went to the top of the pyramid and they started pulling these pavers and they were recreating themselves. Today, I understand that is the recreation of our journey, that it has always fulfilled the way we need it to be, and it never ends. It is one infinite cycle. But I didn't know then. And they started paving the path. And I said, what are you doing? And they said, we are the pavers. You are not. All you have to do is walk it. And I think they put these questions in my head because I said, how do you know if you're walking it right? And for a four and a half year old to say that just seems odd to me. And they said, we bless and block everything. Make no mistakes throughout your journey. You can get through the blocks, battered and bruised at best, or you can shift. And if you see another wall, shift again. And if you see another wall, shift again, and before you know it, you'll see us paving your path. You think you know what's best for you. We know what's best for you. What you try to control controls you. And what you run from chases you. I've never forgot any of those words. They're, like, ingrained in my brain and in my soul. And then it just went from there to different rooms. And I call them rooms, but they weren't rooms, they were places. But as a child, they look like rooms to me.

B (13:58)

It's incredible to me that you remember so much from this being. I. I can't remember much when I was four years old, but I take that back because I don't remember much. But when I was around the same age, I was playing tag with some neighbors and I got pushed from behind and it launched me in the air and my head went through a basement window and I ended up having a traumatic brain injury. And it's interesting because I remember elements from that I. I don't remember, really, the incident. I remember waking up in the hospital with tubes in my head and that aspect of it. But it's interesting to me how vividly you see this even to today. And not just the three lights, but the imagery that was exposed to you and what it meant. How do you explain that?

A (14:53)

I can explain it really easily. Have you ever seen the wizard of Oz?

B (14:57)

Of course.

A (14:58)

When you were a child. Do you remember the ruby slippers?

B (15:01)

Yes.

A (15:02)

Do you remember the little guys, the little dudes dancing on the path?

B (15:06)

Yes.

A (15:07)

But do you remember the Tin man and what was on his head? The oil can.

B (15:12)

Oil can.

A (15:13)

Do you remember that the lion had. Have courage. And do you remember Oz and the witches and the good witch and the bad witch? That is how it felt to me it was so impactful and so beautiful and so bright and so real that I could remember detail. Now they knew I was coming back, so I imagine they helped me remember those things. And I didn't understand them. I didn't understand the wizard of Oz either. But I remember all of it and I remember it from being. I had seen it at that age and I remember all of it and I remember details and that's what I remember there. I know they knew I was coming back and everything. For children, I. I have my doctorate in divinity and I work with children who have near death experiences and they have such a vivid memory of what happened to them and they didn't really understand what it meant. And so we walk through that process. But they remember enough detail, and I'm sure there's a lot more detail I don't remember, but they remember enough detail that they can describe to me what I saw and without any push from me. And they also can describe their fears and their emotions and how they felt and what they thought. And so I know that's how it happens. But we don't forget impactful events. We may forget little details, but we remember the big part.

B (16:43)

And do you remember while this was happening physically, did you feel constrained at all or did you feel the ability to move? How did you feel physically at that time?

A (16:56)

I felt like Jello. I literally felt like Jello. It was like I could melt in butter in a pot at any time, that kind of feeling. And it felt. But I felt like me. So I think my consciousness didn't feel that way, but I just felt like I was moving along. I wanted to float. And because I saw angels floating and I kept thinking in my head, this is a child thinking. And I kept thinking, I want to float. I hope I can float. But I never knew if I did, I would imagine I was the most impactful part of it. There were two areas. One was the Room of Knowledge. I believe that's the Akashic Records is what people call it here. And I remember seeing what I want to call not stone, but some kind of book plate coming in front of people. I saw families, what I thought were families. And someone asked me, do you think it was you having this experience with your family and seeing what you chose? Because this was the Room of Knowledge. And that's what I remember them telling me. And I watched people trying to plan their future incarnation, which I didn't know what that was. And I asked them and they said because they would disappear, they would say things like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. And I could hear the response from the spirit world of, oh, no, that's way too much to handle. I call it the PhD in hardships, which I had, if you've read my book, you know, that very difficult journey. And they would say, no, that's way too much. And they'd say, oh, no, I can do it. I know I can do it. My soul is going to really grow. And they would say, well, you do have free will. And that's how I learned what free will was. At the time, I didn't know what they were talking about, but I know now. And then they were gone. And there would be another set of people, and they were people to me. And I said, where did they go? It was just like, pop. And they were all gone. And they said they went to their next incarnation. I had no idea what they were talking about. And later on in life, someone said to me, do you believe in reincarnation, Susan? And I went, oh, my God, there's that word. I was blown away. And then I understood. It was like it all came together. So none of this. The way I describe it is as an adult, because it's the only way I know how to. There is no description for the afterlife. There's no way to explain it. The angels, the words, and the music come out at the same time. How do you describe that? But I know why music is so dear to our souls and how. Why it heals us and takes it back to memories and brings us emotions. It was created in the angelic realm, and I saw that. But the most impactful part of this was I was in this field, and I could see animals and I called the room of Companions, but I. It wasn't a room, it was a field. And there were dandelions, and this is beautiful colors and flowers. And I looked to my left and there was this mountain. And I wanted to get up the mountain because I could see this. Sorry, this amazing love of light. And I've never felt that way. And I wanted to get near it. I wanted to be close to it. And it felt like you feel about your mommy when you're scared. I just thought. But I wasn't fearful. And it was like it enveloped me. It came at me like a beam. And I couldn't get up the mountain. So it came to me. And I felt perfect in every way. Just. I was everything, and I was nothing. I was perfection. I'm sorry. It's very powerful to Me. And I knew that it was source, but I didn't know what that meant. I just knew it was what created me or what loved me more than anything. And I've never felt that way since. I think I spent a lot of my life looking for that feeling of love. So I was very trying to be loved. But ultimately these angels came out of this cobblestone building right after that. And everything moved towards this source. All the animals, all the angels, everything was moving towards this beautiful source. I'm so sorry. And she said, it's time to go. So I was just ingested with this enormous love and this overwhelming feeling. And that's when I saw the floating angels. And I thought my. All I could think of is, I want to float. And I could feel myself going back to that childlike feeling. And then I was next to water with this beautiful angel. And she was telling me that I was going to have a hard life and I needed to prepare. And I thought, I don't want to go back to that. But then she said, you're going to see your mommy. And we go through water. And I thought she. And to be cleansed. And I thought she meant I was going to be cleaned up because I was in this field where it was messy, and there were flowers, they were going to wash me for my mommy. I was going to be all clean like a bath. And I know today what they meant is that we come to this planet through water. And I understand the womb now, and you know how that happens. And then my mom said she was hearing the whole time, your baby's in the freezer. And she wasn't listening. Now my mom was put away. She had this gift, and they had put her in a hospital. They thought she was crazy. And they had her medicated quite heavily. And so she didn't trust her intuition. And then all of a sudden, she said she could hear. She thought she heard me say, mommy, I'm in the freezer. I remember seeing her. I don't remember the communication, but I think that might have been my first lesson in communication with spirit. That's the only thing I can think of. And she said she ran out. The garage door was closed. So she thought, well, Susie can't open that garage door. And she almost turned around and she opened the garage door and she went to the freezer and she said she opened it and I was facing inward. And when she spun me around, I was ashen, and my tips and my fingers were blue. So it was a lack of oxygen. I don't know why I don't have brain damage? She thought I did because when I came to I and got well, felt better and woke up and really woke up, I could see spirits and they were everywhere and I actually thought they were the boogeyman. I was afraid. I didn't understand. And I would cover my head and say go away. And they didn't go away. And they'd be standing by my bed and say I just died and this is what happened. But it wasn't like it wasn't scary, they didn't hurt me. And so after a while it just felt like my abnormally normal life. And all of my life they've come to me like that. And I knew things. And I didn't know how I knew things, but I just did. And because my sister saw things, she wasn't afraid, but I was. And she was a lot older than me. So I would crawl in bed with her and I'd say do you see them? They'd be looking in the windows and things like that. And she'd say yes, I see them and I'm scared. And she said nothing to be afraid of. So my sister was really held me up where my mother was medicated so she wasn't and didn't want me to talk about it. Don't talk about it.

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A (25:36)

So I went through a lot of my life not talking about it. The one time I did talk about it was I was about seven years old. I told my friends their grandma wanted to play and they said, that's so mean. Her grandma died. And they punched me with their little fists. And it felt like a big punch, but of course it was just a little fist. And I was shocked. And when I told my mom, said to me, I told you, don't talk about it. I started to try to shut it down, but it never went away. I became a grief and addiction therapist. That's what I specialized in. And I kept knowing things about people. The biggest, most powerful visitation I had at that time was. I was a teenager and my nana died. And she came to me and I thought she was the wiggy man. And I told her, go away. And she didn't. And she started to fade. And then I realized, this is my Nana and I didn't know she had died. And she came forward and said some things to me. And I. When she left, she just dissipated into the corner like a ball of light with spear spears off of it. And she was just gone. And I woke my husband and I said, I can go to sleep now. And he looked at me like I was nuts. And he said, okay, you woke me to tell me you can go to sleep. And then I went to sleep. And the next day I got the call that she died. So I called UCLA Medical Center. They were studying ESP at the time. I looked it up in the phone book because we didn't have phones, cell phones. And I said. I told them what happened. And he said to me, you sound like you're a medium. And I said, what's that? And he said, it's people who talk to the dad. And I hung up that phone so quick, I was terrified by what he said. And I didn't talk about it again for a while. But I always knew things. I could feel the energy around people. And so it just kept growing. And I started studying it. I was in a class with James Van Praagh. And he walked up to me and he said, you had a near death experience and you have dead people all around you. You talk to them, don't you? And I was blown away. And I just sat There, very shy about it. And I thought he was going to tell me I'm nuts. And he said, you need to realize this gift it. You're meant to use it. And I told him, yes, I do see them. And yes, I did have that experience. Experience. And he said, I knew it. You know how James is. I knew it. And he almost did a happy dance. And he ended up telling me, you're very gifted in this and you need to use it to help people stop being afraid of it. And so that changed me. And then Lisa Williams did the same thing. She called me to the center of a room. She was on a stage and she called me to the center of the room and she said, you've had a near death experience. Your family is here. You have spirits all around you. And she was telling people to take pictures of me in this audience. And people were. And my friend did. And when I saw the pictures, there were balls of light all over me, but they were coming out of me. And you could barely see me. You could see the background of me. And it blew my mind. And I think at that point I knew, like, this is real because it. You feel like you're crazy. I don't care what experience you had, you feel like you're crazy. And I thought, I'm not telling people because I'm crazy. This can't be real. But the information was so evidential, it was so real. And so I couldn't deny it, but I kept denying it. So that's the gist of it. And then I studied under Raymond, who I love deeply. I have a deep affinity for him. I. He was one of my bucket list. I. He's so true and real. And when I. When he told me that about the well, I was just blown away.

B (29:23)

What an incredible story. And I can go so many different directions with this. I have, over the past couple of years, had a number of Hay House authors on the show. And I, between them and others, I've had a number of interviews about spiritual awakening or the spirit world and how they talk to us. But I'm sure even 20 minutes into this podcast, there could be a listener who's a normal listener who tuned in and is one of those who doesn't really believe and is a skeptic about what you're talking about. If you weren't an intuitive, do you think that experience would have been different if you didn't have this gift and you were trapped?

A (30:16)

Maybe. I'm not sure. I've never been asked that. What a great question. I'M not sure. I was so young. I can't. It's hard for me to know who I would have been without it, because I was. It was always there. So I don't know if I. I think probably it was more expansive because I was already seeing, like, when animals would die and they'd float, I would see that because we had animals and I had the ability to see them transition on our property. And they would just float in front of me. And I thought that was normal. I didn't even think anything. I didn't even think about. It just was just like if we walked out in the rain and I saw you wet, it just was so. I don't know any other way. But I went through tremendous trauma in my journey. I have three family members. My. Both my brothers and my mother who died by suicide. I have. I was trafficked in my neighborhood as a little girl. And so I was asking them questions then, what about the bad people? What happens to the bad people when they explain that to me? And I never really fully understood it, but I accepted it. And the things that I didn't understand, I just accepted there was no other option because it was so real. It was more real than here. It was so real that I just accepted it.

B (31:41)

Susan, do you happen to know Rebecca Rosen?

A (31:45)

I know who she is.

B (31:46)

Okay. I had Rebecca on the show. I think it was episode 332, for those who want to check it out. But we talked about soul contracts and this concept of life assignments, and she referred to our time here. You were bringing up reincarnation. The way she referred to it is that when we are on Earth, we are in what she calls, quote, unquote, Earth school. And that we come back to Earth because there are certain skill sets that we are supposed to learn, experiences that we're supposed to have as we are gradually becoming our greater self to a point that eventually we will fulfill everything we need to learn. And at that point, we won't come back and we'll live in the spirit world. How do you view this idea of Earth school? Do you?

A (32:45)

Absolutely. 100%. 100. And let me tell you, the soul growth, first of all, we couldn't do it all in one lifetime. There is no way. There's so much to learn for our souls. Our soul wants expansion. It craves it. But the most important expansion is love. Love is the hierarchy. Love takes us to source. The more we love, the higher we vibrate. And so that's what I learned. And so our goal is to have self love Love of self is so important. Love and knowledge and gaining the ability to have unconditional love, which, I don't know, a human on this planet that has that our brain gets in the way, but our souls are teaching us through love and then experiences. But it is absolutely a hundred percent a school. We are here for the experience. So I look at it this way. If you went to school to be a doctor and you learned everything there was to learn about being a heart doctor, and you had all the knowledge in your brain, but you had never ever worked on a heart, you truly couldn't call yourself a cardiologist that worked, that does surgery on hearts until you've done it. And that's how it is here. We know the knowledge there, but to experience it we have to be in a human form, a physical form of some sort. Maybe not a human form, but definitely a physical form of some sort. So we can touch that's tangible, we can hug, we can have a margarita, all the way down to the simplest of things. We can make love, we can birth a child, we can hold that child in our arms. We don't have it that way. There we are energetically existing there. And it's beautiful and it's wonderful and it's amazing and safe and overwhelmingly perfection. However, to not be able to have those experiences would be such a crime in my mind. I mean, what a beautiful thing to be able to experience the touch of a newborn child. And so we are. It's tangible, it's experiential, and our soul grows from that soul expansion is awareness and knowledge and it expands in that. And so I. Sometimes if you think about it, when something beautiful happens, it's not our brain that's pulsating, it's our soul. It's pulsating into the experience. It's so overwhelming and everything there pulsates. It's so alive that it pulsates. So our soul fits there, but our human bodies don't. Because look, it gets broken down and it has problems and issues, but it also. People tell me, why did I come here? And I say if I told you that you could experience every single emotion in a short period of time, so deeply, so, so experiential that you would understand it 100%. Would you refuse coming. That includes love, that includes birth, that includes all of it. Would you refuse it? No, you'd want to, even though you would experience negative things too. So I agree with her 100%.

B (36:07)

Well, I want to take this one step further and see if you agree with this other thing that she told me, and maybe as we're doing this, you can explain what a soul contract is. But we were talking about soul contracts, and she was saying that when you come back to Earth School, you're given a number of assignments to fulfill as part of your soul contract. And what she was saying is, if you are fulfilling them, your life during Earth School tends to go pretty smoothly. But if you're not fulfilling them and you're resisting what your spirit guides are informing you to. To do and the lessons you need to learn, you tend to face more challenges during that time in Earth School. Do you resonate at all with that a little bit?

A (36:56)

Not fully. I have to be honest, not a hundred percent. But yes, I understand what she's trying to say or saying. I know that we are planning things. So let's say my soul wants to resonate in marriage, what it feels like to be married. I will be married because that's the contract I created. Who I marry, how long I married, the kind of marriage I have. Who I choose would be my free will. Because without that, without having being able to make choices, there is no free will. And we're robotic. There'd be no reason to be here. So I see it a little differently, but that doesn't make me right. I honor how she sees it, and. But I definitely feel that we have free will in all of our soul contracts. So maybe our free will is five doors, and we go through one door and we go, ooh, don't like the way this feels. I'm heading out of this door. I'm going to go to the next one. And oh, that didn't work for me either. I'm heading out of that one. And that's our free will. Those doors are our free will that teach us how to make decisions and that help us grow. Because without free will, there is no growth. There's just a robotic system. And so our free will changes some of those things, but we will experience what the contract was, which is the bottom line. Like marriage. My soul wants to understand that, but maybe my free will decisions and my brain gets in the way and I marry a narcissist. And I wasn't meant to. Maybe that wasn't something I was meant to do, but I had a choice of five men, and some of them were wonderful, but my brain or my chemistry gets in the way and I end up with someone who wasn't. That would be my free will. What I learned from it is the soul experience. I meant to learn from that. I meant to learn from free will, because if everything is a planned event completely, there is no free will. There is no decisions. There are no decisions to make. So we just go through life following the contract, right? Exactly as it's stated. So it's important to remember that part of it.

B (39:05)

Let's go back to the book and your story. In the book, you mention the first cracks in the vase, and you write, I think of a newborn baby like a rare, perfect vase. Everything about it is whole. Yet given time, each and every whole and perfect child will chip, will crack, will shatter. For some, it will take a long time, and for others, no time at all. In your case, your fate was to be in the latter group. You mentioned this concept of cracks in our lives, those moments of suffering that ultimately lead to personal growth. And before you came on the show, I happened to be going through one of these with thousands of others who lost tremendously during the recent hurricanes here in Tampa. But can you explain why we should look at these cracks as opportunities for transformation? And what role do they play in our soul's journey?

A (40:08)

How much strength have you gained from your experience that you're going through? And at the end of this experience, when things are cleaned up and this trauma is over, how much will you gain about yourself? How much will you learn about yourself, your tenacity, your ability to survive anything that comes our way? I never thought I could survive all the deaths that I survived, but I did. And I didn't think I could, especially my mother. But I did. And I know the strength I carry and the power of my strength and who I am. I believe that negative or seemingly negative and positive or equal in value. And in fact, my hardest experiences teach me the most about who I am, about humanity, about the love of others and what they can give us? I learned so much through the hard experiences. People show up and suit up, and so does spirit, and so do I. And that's amazing to learn. So every experience that I've had has taught me more and more about love and survival and my power, my empowerment and others and who they are and the love that they can offer and the gift of community. We are one consciousness. And the most of the time, when I recognize that the most is through tragedy. I hope that answered the question.

B (41:34)

It did. And I want to take this a step further, because you then further in this chapter, talk about the light through the cracks. And you could liken this to the light that you saw in your own experience. But what would you say to someone who's listening Today who's currently in the midst of a dark time. Maybe there's someone who, like me, was impacted by the hurricane, or they're having some other struggle in their life and they're unsure how to find the light.

A (42:04)

That's rough because I understand it. I used to rock myself when my mother crossed the way she did, and I was on my knees. I didn't think I'd ever get up. And I didn't see a light. I didn't. I thought this was the worst thing I could ever go through, and I probably was. The light was. What I just shared is the ability to see the beauty of people supporting me, helping me get up, seeing that I had the empowerment to do so. So I waited for that. I was willing to see. And I would see little cracks. I would see little things, like maybe I'd have laughter one day, but I never thought I could laugh during something so awful. And there I was laughing. That was a light. Or somebody was in more need than me, and I was able to help them. That was a light. Somebody lost someone to suicide, and I was able to talk with them and be there and hold space for them. That was a light in my cracks. And as I was utilizing my experience to serve others as one consciousness and to serve myself to heal, the light started filling the cracks. And although the vase was cracked and broken, I started creating a mosaic base and putting those pieces back to that together, did that. And it was a new vase, and it looked different, but it was a vase nonetheless, and it was beautiful nonetheless. And when I recognized that was when those lights mattered and everything changed.

B (43:46)

Okay. And I want to explore this a little bit more. You've mentioned Raymond Moody a couple times now. If I have it correct, he's probably 80 or in his early 80s now at this time, but he was the one who first coined, if I understand it correctly, from your book, near death experiences in his book 19, Life After Life. So I want to go into this experience of the tunnel that so many near death experiencers describe. You described it in the concept of a. Well, how. I guess I'm trying to understand when we're experiencing a near death experience, do we have this tunnel effect? Why do you think we're experiencing this? Is it supposed to be a bridge between one world and the other?

A (44:33)

Yes, the concept, yes, I believe it is. And we are knowing. We are hearing things and experiencing things. It's not silent. At least it wasn't for me. And so we know that we're headed somewhere and it is not scary. Dark it is not something's wrong dark. It is more of a peace experience. We're coming from an experience of trauma because we fear death. I fear. I don't fear the afterlife. I fear how I'll die. I still have that fear. And we all have some of that. And so I believe that there's a transitional period. I liken death to birth. We fight it. The baby doesn't want to come out, the baby ends up coming out and it's a hardship. And then it's in fear because it's being poke and prodded and people are looking at it and there's lights everywhere and it's changed. And then they're wrapped in a blanket of love put in their parents arms and they're safe. And as we cross over, instead of the light shining on us, it's dimmed and it's dark and we are scared. And before we get there and we're confused and we don't want to cross and we don't want to die. And then there's this beautiful peaceful energy coming at us in this darkness that isn't scary. And then we're wrapped in a blanket of love through that and then we're at peace and we feel loved and safe. So it's very similar life and death. And I believe that is our blanket of love. That dark space. It is when we're being. It's warm and it's inviting and it's interesting and it's wow and it's not scary. So I believe that's our entry.

B (46:25)

And I want to jump to the room of hearts that you described earlier because I think this is an important part of the discussion because as you were saying before and what you say in the book is this idea that sometimes our deepest desires aren't granted because they don't serve our soul's growth. And it's interesting. I had a conversation yesterday with Lisa Miller. I'm not sure if you know who she is, but she is a professor at Columbia and she studies the science of spirituality. And she took me through an exercise where she had me imagine myself looking at a red door and what was something I truly wanted and did all the steps to achieve and it didn't come to fruition. And then she said, imagine that there are other doors that you then see. One could be yellow, one could be green, and you find another path. And I'm wondering if what you're describing here is that situation where sometimes those doors are not open to us because of divine redirection for our Better. Good.

A (47:38)

Absolutely. So they really want to help us. But if you think about a door, it is a door. You can open it battered and bruised at best, or you can shift to the other colors. So that's what I learned is that have you ever wanted something so bad that you'll bang your head against the wall and have everybody join you when nothing's working out and you keep banging your head against that wall over and over and you're saying, come join me, everybody. And then you realize that nothing's happening and you might be able to make little things happen that's getting through that door battered and bruised, but nothing else occurs and your dream doesn't happen. So the goal is to understand that what you try to control is controlling you and that everything isn't good for you and they're trying to stop you, but you can get through it. At some point, if you beat your head enough, you're going to break the door down. But what are you gaining from that? So it's recognizing they're not blessing this, they're blocking it and everything is going wrong. And here I am beating my head against the wall. Can I shift into some other decision? And when you do, there's that other door and things start working out. Or maybe that's not the door either and there's another choice and things start working out. But at some point, if you continue to shift, you'll find that there is another entry into what you're looking for for. And that would be the spirit led path. We have our own human led path and we have a spirit led path and we learn from both. And our human path, I think teaches us more. We're back to that again. That pain has so much value for us, I could say, unfortunately. But how would that serve me? So what I say is thank goodness for it because I learned the difference. You can't know love if you don't know the opposite. You can't know pain. Joy. If you can't know pain, it would just be joy. It wouldn't be anything else. It would just be a feeling. But having pain, then when you step into joy. So let's say for everyone and what you're all going through, where you are, which is so painful, truly painful, these hurricanes and everything that's happened on this planet, if you didn't know that when you got through it, you wouldn't know great joy. So the reason it's painful is because you understand what it feels like to have it different. You understand what it feels like not to have A hurricane. Take your home and to love your home. And that's a joy. So if you didn't have that, you wouldn't have the understanding that, oh, this is not good and I want to change it and I'm going to do something different and I had the tenacity to do so and I'm going to do it. And then when you are done going through this experience, and it will always be there to compare to where you are now. And that is how we understand our experiences of the joy filled experience and the pain filled experience. And it has value.

B (50:40)

So you speak about the importance of spiritual guides and angels in our lives. For someone who doesn't have a strong spiritual practice, I want to relate a personal story for them. I remember it was around 2017, and over a course of a week, I had two very traumatic incidents happen to me. I was held up at home at gunpoint by a burglar and three or four days later, my best friend jumped off a bridge and committed suicide. And I remember before this I had really been struggling with some life decisions and this calling that I had been having, I think from my higher source for a long time. And I kept resisting it. And my life was thrown into turmoil at this point. And it unearthed a lot of trauma that I experienced earlier in my life. And I decided as one of the paths to healing to start to do Reiki. And I remember the healer was in our session and you keep your eyes closed. And I could feel her presence towards my head. And I happened to open my eyes and she was on the whole other side of the world of the room. And I was wondering what, what is going on? And why am I feeling this present so strongly around the upper portion of my body? And I remember after the session she was telling me how difficult it was for her to do the practice on me because I had two spirit guides who were doing everything in their power to block her because they were trying to protect me. And I was hoping maybe you from that scenario could maybe discuss what, what's going on and things like that. And how do we begin to recognize and connect with these guides who are there in our lives that for some of us, we just can't see.

A (52:42)

So I'm a Reiki master and I've never had an experience where spirit guides were stopping me from helping someone move the energy through them. However, I have had experiences where people break. They break down because they are feeling and moving, the energy is moving. And maybe your guides were trying to stop that from happening because you had Been through such trauma. So they were taking it easy on you. Like, slow down. Let's not move too much of this energy because it will overwhelm him. You were already in a state of flux, of being overwhelmed, so that probably is what was happening. In my professional opinion, guides are just having a conversation with us and why? The reason that we don't recognize it. Well, if we recognize it all day, we wouldn't be talking to humans, we'd be talking to them. Right? Because they're in the afterlife and they're going to give us all the answers, we think. So it's important that we don't recognize it all the time, but they will get in our way and they will try to support us. The goal is to talk to them. So as silly as it may sound, getting up in the morning and saying, hey, today, would you just come along with me? I'm scared. I have to go do a job interview and I don't know if I'm going to succeed or I'm having a podcast and I want to make sure I make the right impact. Come help me. And I do that every day. I make sure I take a moment to take a breath and say, spend the day with me. Usurp for my greatest good, my free will, if you can, because I know I'm going to get in my own way. And they're there to help us. So the goal isn't to necessarily recognize them at every moment, but to trust. So I call it the three A's. Is an awareness, acceptance, and action. So sometimes we'll go into a room or we'll have something happen, and we're aware that something's changed in the room. It could be a loved one, which you would know the difference because it would be familiarity. You'd feel the familiar love. It could be a guide who will boss you around a little bit, tell you what the heck are you thinking, and it. Or it could be an angel, which is pure love. And that was what I felt when I was on my knees. So as you're in that place of awareness, they become aware that you're aware. So when you say to your guys, I want you to come with me, they're aware now that you're aware that it's a possibility. So here they come. And then you go to acceptance. I'm going to accept. I'm just going to accept it that they could be there. And they go, oh, they're accepting that I'm going to come in even stronger and I'm going to spend the day with them because they're going to let me. They're going to let me share their day. And then it's action. And the only action you have to do is trust, which is the hardest part. And when you can come to a place of trust, they go, she's trusting. I'm there. She's going to allow me to help her move through her day. So now I could be of service. Just like any human being, we have to have the awareness that somebody that loves us, wants to help us. We have to accept their help, and then we have to trust that their help is good and means well. It's the same thing with the guides. I tell my clients it's just a conversation. So if you talk to them, they're going to respond in some form and you'll go, wow, how did that happen today? That turned out really well. I didn't expect that. Well, I'm pretty certain your guides were a part of that.

B (56:01)

Well, I want to go into one of the stories from your book about a woman who you helped to see someone on the other side. And this section is called the Bluebird, so you'll remember what it is. But you write, I was on the phone giving a reading to a woman in Sydney, Australia, when I received an image of a beautiful bird. And you said to her, your mother tells me that she will send you a bird. I see a bird of some kind. It appears to be a shiny, bright blue. I described it in detail based on her mother's image. Can you take the story from there? And what this powerful sign was?

A (56:43)

I may not get it perfectly because I forget my readings. And even when I read them again, I just get that block. But what I remember about that is she was telling me later on that she got sick with an illness and it was Covid and she thought she was going to die. And her mother came into her dream state and was holding this bird, this beautiful blue bird that was an Australian bird that I had never seen. I've never been to Australia, and I had described it perfectly. And when she woke up the next day, that bird was there and she was getting on the men. She was getting well. And she said she knew beyond a shadow of a doubt by the description that was the bird. And it was sitting on her window, I believe. And she said it was life transforming for her because she recognized that her mother was really with her. Her mother was really helping her. Her mother. So our loved ones can't do everything for us. We always. People always ask me that question. She Did. Why didn't she just make me well or not get sick? And I said if they could do everything for us and control our journey, they'd control everything. They love us. They want us to have everything perfect. So they don't have that power. If they did, we'd never have experiences. We'd never experience the seemingly dark times and we wouldn't grow in the way that we're meant to. We wouldn't make our own free will decisions. So that was how I explained it to her and that's how I understand it. And. But they are there to support us and help us in that way of the small ways or bring us healing in some way once something happens. And I don't know the exact empowerment they have, but I know they're able to do that. And a signal from our loved one is huge.

B (58:33)

Well, I want to talk about something that comes just after this. I'm not going to go through the details because they'd be very emotional for you, but your mom had just died on the back of you losing two brothers, and you were reaching out to your father to show you a sign to let you know that your mom had passed to the other side and was okay. And what emerged, if I have it correctly, was a butterfly appeared out of nowhere. And it was an interesting segment for me to read because my sister died earlier this summer from cancer. And we were at her memorial service and it was a Buddhist priest who was doing the service, and he read a letter that my sister had written to us, basically explaining her feelings and how we should be taking her life and our own lives and using it for good. And it was incredible because as he was saying this passage, out of nowhere, a butterfly emerged behind him and went over him and then down and then left the area as he was reading this. And I remember talking to my brother and my fiance afterwards, and we were all convinced that was her spirit there with us at that moment. But it's hard to confirm these things. But when I read this message that you got with a butterfly, it brought forth to me that actually was a symbol of her being there in the moment, sharing her presence with us.

A (60:17)

I agree. So when you mentioned your sister, I heard organs. She was so strong. She loved helping others. And she and I put. Helped others. She wanted you to help others. So I was already talking to her for a moment. This is a very strong, beautiful woman and she loved being of help. She was smart and she knew that if she gave that information to you that you would take it to help others. That you would expand, that. She knew that about you and the family, and she wanted that. She didn't want to go for nothing, and she wanted it to have meaning. So, just so you know, this is what I heard. I mean, I literally wrote it down. As you were. I'm circling it now because I know she's around you. My father. It hit me right in the forehead between my eyes. It just came from nowhere. And in Arizona, in the heat, you. There isn't. There aren't a lot of butterflies just flying around. And it was so shocking to me. And I knew that she was. She was there and he was there. And when it happened, I heard my mom, who was not talking, crying in a way of love crying. And she was responding to my experience with me, but I wasn't in the room with her. I was outside on a patio. I did hospice work, and she was at the hospice I worked at, and she was. I was out on the patio. She didn't know yet. She was crying, and I heard her whimpering. And I went in, and she was just in this peace state, and tears were flowing from her eyes, and she was comatose. So she was preparing very rapidly after that to cross. So. Interesting. My father died from pancreatic cancer. And I feel that your sister and my father have a very similar. I'm hearing the organs. I'm feeling those organs in my body, and that's how it works for me. And so I just want you to know that she did send the butterfly. She is telling me that was a sign to let you know that she was free and she was there. She wasn't the butterfly, but she sent it, and she was there in spirit and she was supporting all of you and letting you know she was there. So she's very happy that you took that in and that you recognized it, because you could have ignored that sign, but you didn't.

B (62:53)

Well, what's ironic is she died of pancreatic cancer.

A (62:58)

There we are. That's how it works. I'm so sorry to hear that. That's very difficult. I went through it.

B (63:05)

Terrible cancer.

A (63:07)

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. But she was extremely brave, and she's very proud of herself for that bravery.

B (63:13)

I want to tell you that she absolutely was. And I remember she was telling me a couple days before she died that this final chapter in her journey finally unearthed the thing that she was called to do, which was to become a psychotherapist and to really use her experiences of going through this traumatic time to help others go through their own horrific times and give them a sense of healing and that there's a path to something better on the other side. So I was very happy for her that she had that gift even during the most trying moments.

A (63:51)

So interesting because she didn't say, I help others. She said, I helped. I wrote Ed. I helped others. So she was sharing that with me. She has such a tremendous amount of love for humanity and for people. She feels like she loved doing things for others. It was very important to her and that was a huge part of who she was and who she is till this day. She's very happy. She's very happy. Just so you know, she's in the most beautiful place you can be and she's home and she's around you. She was around you during this whole difficult time. She's still around you. She helped. She kept everyone safe. She did her best to be of help to you. And she's very active in your life. She's very close to you. She must have been a friend to you because she feels very close to you. She doesn't feel like a distant sister. She feels like she's right there. So I just wanted to share that with you.

B (64:53)

Well, thank you, Susan. And I've done two episodes this week that are unlike any other ones I've ever done. So I'm glad I ended up working this week because I needed the distraction for one. But it's really opened up some deep conversations. If someone wants to learn more about you and your work and potentially wants to work with you to do their own reading, what is the best way for listeners to get in touch with you?

A (65:21)

Susan gras.com and Susan grofficial on all social medias. So that's the easiest way. I also do a podcast. I just started it. It's called Infinite Life, Infinite Wisdom. Everything I write has infinite in it. I'm writing a new book called Infinite Healing. So I that is the best way to get a hold of me. If you are going through a loss, I really feel that my book is of help. It helps you learn to communicate with them. It helps you get in touch with your own inner pain and growth, helps you understand where your loved ones are and the healing process of grief. It helps you learn about fear and intuition and the difference of those feelings, which is one of our hardest things to understand. Is this fear I'm feeling or is this my intuition and how to trust that and know the difference. And it shares the afterlife journey. So if you are going through something, I really want to encourage you to get the book and learn about it and then if you want to make an appointment because it will tell you who I am and how I help.

B (66:28)

Susan, thank you so much for being here again. And the name of the book is Infinite Life, Infinite Lessons. You can find it on Amazon or wherever you're looking for books and we've just covered a small element of the book, so there's so much more for you to unpack if you read or listen to it. Susan, thank you so much for joining me today. It was such a pleasure to have you on.

A (66:50)

Thank you so much for having me. This has been wonderful. Great questions, haven't answered them before in the way that you asked them and so that's exciting for me. I appreciate you and I'm sending you so much light and strength for what you're experiencing and your family and all the people that you know and love and don't know but love that are going through this experience that you're going through.

B (67:14)

Thank you so much. Wow. What an incredible and deeply moving conversation that was with Dr. Susan Grau. Her profound insights into the afterlife, the spiritual world, and the soul's journey offer so much comfort and clarity, especially for those navigating loss or seeking spiritual healing. One of the biggest takeaways from today's episode is the reminder that even in our darkest moments, there is light, guidance and love in the spiritual world that's there waiting to help us heal and grow. Susan's personal story is a testament to the power of resilience as well as transformation, and I hope you found her words and her stories as inspiring as I did. I want to leave you with a thought. How can you tap into the spiritual guidance that's available to you in your life? What steps can you take to heal, connect and grow spiritually? Remember, whether you're seeking answers, connection or healing, the journey starts with turning into the wisdom that already resides within you. If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please take a moment to give it a five star rating and review. It helps us to continue bringing these transformative conversations to you. And if you know someone who could benefit from today's episode, please share it with them. You never know how just one conversation can change a life. For those who are interested in having me speak at your company or event, whether it's a keynote, workshop or panel discussion, I'd love to explore how we can work together. Head over to johnrmiles.com speaking on how I can inspire your organization. You can find everything that we discussed today in the show notes@passionstruck.com videos of the episode are also available on YouTube at both our main channel at John R. Miles and our clips channel at passionstruck Clips. Please join quarter million subscribers who tune into our videos weekly. And if you want to read the books from any of the guests that we have on the show, links will be in the Show Notes as well as you can go to my book recommendation list that's also on the website. Please use our website links to purchase any of those books. And don't forget to check out our sponsors and deals@passionstruck.com deals please consider supporting those who support the show. Next week I am thrilled to be joined by a repeat guest and friend of mine, Eric Edmeads, an internationally recognized business speaker, serial entrepreneur, and creator of Wildfit. We'll be diving into Eric's transformative lessons on personal freedom, entrepreneurial success, and how to reclaim control over your health and life. It's going to be an episode you don't want to miss. Thank you as always for your time and attention. The evolution gap is a gap that I'm suggesting exists between our incessantly slow pace of biological evolution and our unbelievable capacity and accelerated capacity for innovation.

A (69:51)

And the idea is that we started changing the environment faster than our genetics could keep up with, and that opened a gap.

B (69:57)

And I would suggest you that almost all the pain and suffering, emotional, physical, even social that we're suffering exists in.

A (70:04)

That gap or is at least amplified by that gap.

B (70:06)

Remember, the fee for the show is simple. If you found value in today's episode, share it with someone who could benefit. And as always, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen. Until next time. Live life. Passion Sprout. The holidays are here at the Home Depot, so let's get to decorating. Find your perfect tree in our huge assortment of shapes, sizes and styles. Like the easy to assemble Jackson Noble fir with pre lit branches perfect for styling with all your favorite ornaments. Or the Phlox Starry Light Frasier fur with over 1900 pre lit memory wire branches that keep their shape so it's ready right out of the box. Find the perfect tree now at the Home Depot.

A (71:03)

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B (71:21)

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