Podcast
People and Projects Podcast: Project Management Podcast
Hosted by Andy Kaufman, PMP, PMI-ACP · EN
Welcome to the People and Projects Podcast, where we provide interviews and insights to help you lead people and deliver projects. Since 2009, this show is brought to you by speaker, author, and executive coach Andy Kaufman. If you're looking for insights on project management, leadership, and how AI influences both of those, you've come to the right place! And if you hold a project management certification, you can even earn free PDUs for listening!
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PPP 510 | The Word Great Leaders Keep Using (And Most Leaders Avoid), with Marcus Buckingham
3w ago01:08:55Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy welcomes back Marcus Buckingham, bestselling author and researcher, to discuss his new book, Design Love In: How to Unleash the Most Powerful Force in Business. For 25 years, Marcus studied the most productive teams, loyal customers, and effective leaders in the world, and the word that kept appearing in his data was one he kept changing: love. Andy and Marcus explore what love actually means in a business context, including how leaders are really experience makers whether they know it or not. You will hear the remarkable story of Josh D'Amaro, the CEO of Disney, and what his leadership reveals about designing love into a team's daily experience. Marcus unpacks the five feelings that lead people to say they love working for a leader, starting with something counterintuitive: control. The conversation also covers tough love, AI's limits as an experience maker, and how these principles can transform how we lead our families too. If you're looking for a fresh, evidence-based look at what drives sustained high performance, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "I kept hearing that word (love) and shame on me, but I did keep changing it because I felt like it was a careless exaggeration of the word like or something." "Don't keep changing the word (love). The word's the word. The question really should be why and how do we replicate it?" "You're paid to change behavior. That's all you're paid to do. You're not paid to run a project. You're paid to change behavior as a leader." "When you send an email, it's not an email. It's an experience for the person on the other end. When you call that team meeting, it's not a team meeting. It's an experience." "You join a company and then you quit your boss." "Undesigned experiences lead to unpredictable outcomes." "It's cowardly, not loving. It's cowardly to leave them in that job." "I am for you. I am for you. That doesn't always mean that I am going to tell you what you wanna hear. It means I want you to flourish." "Loving's an ingredient, right? Loving isn't, 'Be nicer.' Loving's like, 'What are you trying to do for me?'" "The beginning of love is rules. The beginning of love is clarity." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:48 Start of Interview 01:57 Why Marcus Spent Decades Avoiding the Word "Love" 05:47 Misconceptions About Love in Business 11:29 Inside the "Josh Effect" 18:02 What Great Leaders Don't Do 22:13 Local Leadership and Variation in Team Experience 27:54 When Senior Leaders Couldn't Say the Word 31:04 Applying the "Is This Loving or Unloving?" Lens 37:43 Tough Love and Difficult Performance Conversations 46:20 Practical Takeaways: The Five Feelings of Love 50:25 AI and the Role of Love in Leadership 56:34 Designing Love Into Parenting and Family 1:01:26 End of Interview 1:01:57 Andy Comments After the Interview 1:05:03 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Marcus and his work at BuckinghamInstitute.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 252, which is our earlier interview with Marcus Buckingham. That book still impacts how Andy leads years after having Marcus on the first time. Episode 332 with Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel. A discussion about keeping your teams engaged and connected, even if they're not co-located. Episode 324 with Jim Harter. Jim is the Chief Scientist at Gallup and they have an insightful discussion about building resilient and thriving teams. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Love in Business, Team Culture, Employee Engagement, Customer Experience, Project Management, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Parenting, Organizational Culture, Experience Design The following music was used for this episode: Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 509 | Stop Letting Great Ideas Slip Away: A System for Leadership Recall, with author Steve Kahle
4w ago00:39:33Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy welcomes back Steve Kahle, entrepreneur, executive, and fractional CIO, author of Leadership Recall: Harness Insights. Accelerate Innovation. LEAD WITH AUTHORITY. Steve first joined the podcast in episode 184 to discuss email overload. This time, the conversation turns to a challenge every leader faces: the forgetting curve. Research suggests we forget up to 83% of what we learn within a week, and Steve argues this is not just a learning problem, it's a leadership problem. Steve shares his CCR framework (Capture, Catalog, and Recall), along with practical tools such as the Anki flashcard app and the Email Me voice-note app, to build what he calls a learning operating system. The discussion covers how to design a recall fitness practice in as little as three minutes a day and how removing friction at every step keeps the system sustainable. If you're looking for a practical system to stop letting great insights slip away and start leading with more authority, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "I think God put in my heart to be a relentless optimizer. I like to see things work and work well." "When you really zoom out in life, those who are really successful have figured out what are the frameworks, what are the methodologies that work, and they simply apply those." "Our subconscious mind can handle about 11 million bits of data per second, but about 40 bits conscious mind." "I went all in. Christ totally transformed my heart, and I'm realizing that scripture memory is a superpower." "Time swiftly washes away the obvious." "Learning really is a privilege, and we need to be able to find time that works with our daily rhythms." "Three minutes a day is really all you need to be able to see tremendous traction on being able to recall things that matter" "Instead of 'I'm bad at remembering names,' you could, do a reframe like, 'Hey, I'm getting better at remembering people's names.'" Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:48 Start of Interview 02:06 Early Experiences and the Instinct to Remember 04:08 Is Memory a Natural Gift or a Trainable Skill? 05:19 Forgetting as a Feature, Not Just a Bug 07:10 The Leadership Cost of Forgetting 09:10 Shifting the Bottleneck from Input to Retention 12:02 The Five-Hour Rule and Three Learning Archetypes 14:19 The CCR Framework in Practice: Capture, Catalog, and Recall 19:50 Removing Friction from Your Learning System 23:23 Inside Anki: Cloze Deletions and Building Cards 26:10 Organizing Your Recall Decks 27:30 Real-World Results: When Readers Apply the System 28:56 Building Recall Habits in Your Kids 32:50 How to Get the Book 34:01 End of Interview 34:17 Andy Comments After the Interview 37:46 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Steve and his work at leadershiprecall.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 184 with Steve Kahle. It's our previous conversation about keeping your head above water when drowning in email and commitments. Definitely recommend checking it out. Episode 411 with Laura Mae Martin. She's the head of productivity at Google and shares ideas that I still use to this day. Episode 376 with Nick Sonnenberg. It's a book about helping you and your team stop drowning in all the information and commitments at work. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Memory, Learning, Productivity, Knowledge Management, Recall, Spaced Repetition, Personal Development, Continuous Learning, Networking, Project Management The following music was used for this episode: Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 508 | Why Where You Work May Matter More Than How You Work. The Indoor Epidemic, with Dr. John La Puma
May 900:37:35Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy welcomes Dr. John La Puma, a board-certified internal medicine physician, professionally trained chef, regenerative organic farmer, and two-time New York Times bestselling author of The Indoor Epidemic. Did you know most of us spend about 93% of our lives indoors? Dr. John makes the case, backed by more than 2,200 studies, that where we spend our time may matter just as much as the soft skills and productivity systems we so often focus on. In this conversation, Andy and Dr. John dig into what he calls digital obesity and analog wellness, the science of morning sunlight and circadian rhythm, why looking at the horizon for just one minute per hour can improve focus and eye health, and what forest bathing actually does to your immune system. They also explore loneliness as a health crisis, the social dimension of outdoor time, and practical ways to build a 17-minute daily nature habit that doesn't require moving to Santa Barbara. If you're looking for science-backed ways to boost your energy, focus, and long-term wellbeing, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "Digital obesity is when you consume more pixels than you can metabolize." "What people don't understand about this is that it's not a character flaw, that it's a biological mismatch." "People don't appreciate that nature is actually social, and that social part is good for you." "And loneliness is what? 15 cigarettes a day in mortality." "Nature works through your senses. You touch, you listen, you see, you smell, you taste." "You have a 56% higher function and number of natural killer cells because you are in the company of trees that are making these chemicals, alpha-pinene, D-limonene in citrus trees, many other trees, that improve your ability to kill tumor cells and kill virus infected cells." "But immersion in the forest means that you're immersing your senses in it, and the forest is, is the therapist, and the walk is the therapy." "Rest is actually self-preservation and capital investment." "Often you can upgrade the thinking in a room just by opening a window." "But you don't need a forest, and you don't need a park even. You just need a sky view." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:56 Start of Interview 02:06 Background: Origins of the Indoor Epidemic 07:03 Digital Obesity and Analog Wellness 10:33 Dr. John's Morning Outdoor Routine 13:21 The Benefits of Looking at the Horizon 17:22 Experiencing Vastness and Awe 22:47 Forest Bathing: More Than Just a Walk 24:32 Walking Habits and Nature Recalibration 26:52 Loneliness and Outdoor Social Connection 30:04 Practical Tips for Parents 32:03 End of Interview 32:39 Andy Comments After the Interview 35:15 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Dr. John and his work at drjohnlapuma.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 461 with Dr. Patricia Grabarek. We talk about why our typical approaches to wellness are missing the mark. Episode 421 with Dr. Bijoy John. He's a practicing sleep doctor and I think you'll find some practical ideas from our discussion. Episode 200 with Jeffrey Pfeffer. He's the author of a book entitled Dying for a Paycheck and I think you'll find his insights challenging enough to look at work differently. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Level Up Your AI Skills Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future. Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks! Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Nature, Digital Obesity, Analog Wellness, Productivity, Loneliness, Forest Bathing, Morning Sunlight, Wellbeing, Leadership, Sleep The following music was used for this episode: Music: On Point by Steven OBrien License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Energetic Drive Indie Rock by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 507 | Why Smart Teams Still Fail, with Stephen Shapiro
Apr 2900:35:49Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy talks with Stephen Shapiro, innovation expert and author of You're Not Playing With a Full Deck: Why the People Who Drive You Crazy Are Your Unfair Advantage. Stephen's journey starts with a costly failure: a $30 million innovation project at Accenture that fell apart, not from a lack of talent, but because everyone on the team thought the same way. Out of that failure came a framework built around a familiar metaphor: a deck of cards. Stephen introduces four distinct personality styles tied to the four suits and explains why teams missing certain suits are setting themselves up to struggle, even when everyone is smart and capable. In this conversation, you'll hear why unanimous agreement is actually a warning sign, how strengths can quietly sabotage performance when overplayed, and why the people who drive you crazy may be exactly who your team needs. Andy and Stephen also explore what the rise of AI means for the uniquely human qualities that only certain suits can provide. If you're looking for a fresh, practical framework to build stronger teams and unlock better results, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "We were smart people. We had smart people on the team, and we somehow failed miserably." "I realized I was the problem. And it wasn't just me, it was the way we constructed the team." "Anytime you have everybody agreeing, that's a warning sign." "I actually think the bigger enemy of innovation is, 'Wow, this is a great idea!' because then what ends up happening is we believe it's a great idea." "It's less of a personality test and more of an opportunity to just stimulate some conversation that typically doesn't happen inside of organizations." "Left to their own devices, diverse teams perform terribly." "So it's not just diversity, it's diversity plus appreciation." "I try to make it very clear to AI: don't agree with me!" "Part of this is who are we really versus who did we become?" "There's a difference between a strength and a strong suit. A strength means you're good at it. A strong suit means you're good at it and it energizes you because it's who you are at your core." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:25 Start of Interview 01:37 When Teaming Started Going Wrong 02:52 Recognizing the Real Root Cause 03:38 Choosing Your Team Members 04:45 Similarity vs. Genuine Trust 06:00 A Real-World Team Turnaround 07:51 Overcoming Resistance to Difference 09:04 The Origin of the Card-Based Framework 10:47 When Strengths Become Liabilities 13:10 Warning Signs of Strengths Gone Wild 16:03 Meeting Personalities and How to Balance Them 22:00 How AI Changes the Human Equation on Teams 23:45 Which Personality Suits Are Hardest for AI to Replace 24:53 How Stephen Uses AI in His Own Work 26:18 Applying the Framework Outside of Work 29:42 End of Interview 30:20 Andy Comments After the Interview 33:36 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Stephen and his work at StephenShapiro.com/fulldeck. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 286 with Ruth Pearce. Ruth wrote a book about the power of character strengths, and she definitely comes at it through the lens of project managers. Check out episode 286 to learn more. Episode 283 with Tom Rath. Tom is the StrengthsFinder guy and it's an engaging discussion that goes beyond personality to what he thinks is the most important question you need to be asking. Episode 489 with Martin Dubin. It's an intriguing discussion about blind spots that, if you haven't already listened to, I highly recommend. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Team Building, Leadership, Cognitive Diversity, Collaboration, Innovation, Project Management, Meeting Effectiveness, Personality Frameworks, AI, Human Potential, Self-Awareness, Strengths, Organizational Culture The following music was used for this episode: Music: Summer Awakening by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 506 | Stop Optimizing Meetings. Start Reducing Them, with Rebecca Hinds
Apr 1500:38:10Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy welcomes Rebecca Hinds, organizational behavior researcher and author of Your Best Meeting Ever. Rebecca brings a behavioral science lens to one of the most persistent pain points in modern work: meetings that multiply, linger, and drain rather than deliver. Andy and Rebecca explore the concept of meeting debt, and why reducing meeting volume often matters far more than optimizing agendas. They discuss why meetings have become status symbols and performance art, how a simple social contract makes it nearly impossible to decline an invite, and what meeting minimalism actually means (hint: it's not about ruthless efficiency). Rebecca shares practical ideas, like calendar cleanses, Return on Time Invested (ROTI) ratings, and unexpected guardrails, including the fascinating case of the 27-minute meeting. They also wrestle with AI's potential to either genuinely improve meeting culture or simply make expensive, inefficient meetings feel more productive. If you're looking for a research-backed, practical guide to finally taking back your calendar, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "Why do we cling to this practice that has largely remained unchanged for decades and decades, and yet we know, we're highly aware that it's highly inefficient and dysfunctional." "It's ironic and unfortunate that we now consider so many of these dysfunctional practices, so many of these tactics as business as usual." "We tend to associate visibility with value and presence with productivity. A packed calendar is a very clear indication that you are busy, you're important, and you have high status within the organization." "Meetings are the most important product in our entire organization, and yet also the least optimized." "Meeting debt is so bad that it's not worth it to tinker at the edges and try to optimize the meetings that already exist because fundamentally, many of them should not exist in the first place." "Return on Time Invested (ROTI) is a concept I learned from my colleague Elise Keith. It asks people to rate the effectiveness of a meeting on a scale of zero to five based on whether this meeting was well worth it in terms of the time invested." "I don't mean efficiency for efficiency's sake, right? The goal isn't to make our meetings ruthlessly efficient at all costs." "He was tasked with running these 30-minute meetings. He was seeing them drag on and on rather than make the meeting longer, he made them exactly 27 minutes, and that jolted people out of autopilot." "What we're seeing in meetings overwhelmingly is people using AI to cognitively offload the work that they should be doing as humans." "I continue to believe there's nothing that communicates your leadership more clearly than being able to run a good meeting, but also being able to steer a bad meeting back on track because people very quickly make the cognitive jump that if you can lead a meeting, if you can lead a meeting back on track, you can probably lead a team, you can probably lead a project, you can maybe lead a function." "And the reverse is also true. If you can't lead a good meeting, it doesn't instill a whole lot of confidence in your ability to lead anything bigger." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:27 Start of Interview 01:36 Rebecca's Background and Journey 02:51 The Meeting Sabotage Manual 04:38 Meetings as Status Symbols and Performance Art 07:30 Meeting Debt: Why Reducing Volume Comes First 10:12 Calendar Cleanses: Wiping the Slate Clean 11:28 Guardrails Against Meeting Bloat 14:30 Better Meeting Metrics: Return on Time Invested 17:34 Meeting Minimalism: What It Really Means 18:43 Minimalism in Practice 21:30 AI and Meeting Culture 27:50 Changing Meeting Culture Without Full Authority 32:06 End of Interview 32:39 Andy Comments After the Interview 35:34 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Rebecca and her work at RebeccaHinds.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 503 with Evan Unger. Evan shares some helpful ideas on leading better decision-making meetings. Episode 246 with Steven Rogelberg. Steven is a leading meeting researcher whose work also appears in Rebecca's book. Episode 72 with Steven Rogelberg. An earlier conversation with this leading meeting researcher. Episode 245 with Elise Keith. Elise shares some practical insights on how to make meetings more effective. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Meeting Culture, Meeting Debt, Meeting Facilitation, Return on Time Invested, Organizational Behavior, Leadership, Project Management, Behavioral Science, Meeting Minimalism, AI and Meetings, Team Productivity The following music was used for this episode: Music: Brooklyn Nights by Tim Kulig License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 505 | You've Got This: A Practical Way to Lead When You're Not Sure, with Ashley Herd
Apr 1100:46:09Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy talks with Ashley Herd, HR and legal leader turned management coach, and author of The Manager Method. Ashley has led HR and legal teams at organizations like McKinsey and Yum Brands, and she brings a refreshingly real-talk approach to the challenges every manager faces, especially those quiet moments of self-doubt that come with growing responsibility. In this conversation, you'll hear Ashley's take on why imposter feelings are so common among thoughtful leaders, and how her concept of the "career quilt" reframes even the most uncomfortable professional experiences. She introduces her simple but powerful Pause, Consider, Act framework, which is a practical tool for navigating tough management moments without reacting on instinct. You'll also hear how the language we use about people shapes the way we lead them, why delegation is harder than it looks, and how accountability can be reframed as a positive force on your team. Ashley even shares how Pause, Consider, Act has made her a better parent. If you're looking for a grounded, practical guide to leading people well (without burning yourself out) this episode is for you! Sound Bites "We all have our career quilts. And sometimes those are different, like different jobs, actual different experiences like that." "I felt very much like the other at McKinsey." "When you open up and show that you are real, you tend to gain the trust and respect that you're so afraid you'll lose if you do that." "People don't care that you know the message. They want to hear the message for themselves." "What would I want to have happen to me if I were in the other person's shoes?" "A rolling stone gathers stress, not moss." "Just thinking about the people that are doing a lot of the work, how you treat them and talk with and about them? That can shape a lot of the outcomes." "Tasks can quietly become symbols of our value." "When you treat your people well, they are a better parent, friend, relative." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:17 Start of Interview 02:45 What's A Leadership Experience That Shaped You? 05:27 The Career Quilt Concept 07:47 Imposter Phenomenon in Leadership 11:45 Spotlight Effect and How We Worry About Being Watched 14:10 Introducing Pause, Consider, Act 15:05 What Pausing Actually Looks Like 21:30 Empathy Without Carrying Too Much 23:47 Rethinking Empathy 25:40 How Language Shapes How We Lead People 28:52 The Delegation Trap 30:33 What Ashley Still Struggles to Delegate 33:15 Reframing Accountability 38:10 Applying the Book Outside of Work 39:43 End of Interview 40:22 Andy Comments After the Interview 43:20 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Ashley and her work at ManagerMethod.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 468 with James Turk. It's a discussion about what to do during the first 45 days when you take on new responsibility. Episode 467 with Sabina Nawaz. She was a coach to Microsoft leaders, such as Bill Gates, and she shares insights that, according to her, no one tells you about becoming a boss. Episode 142 with Amy Cuddy. Amy is most famous for her TED Talk on power posing. But episode 142 is more about presence and how you can more confidently rise to the most daunting challenges. It's a nice follow-up to what Ashley talked about with the imposter phenomenon. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Level Up Your AI Skills Join other listeners from around the world who are taking our AI Made Simple course to prepare for an AI-infused future. Just go to ai.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com. Thanks! Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Management, Imposter Phenomenon, Delegation, Accountability, Empathy, Team Culture, Communication, Self-Awareness, New Managers, Personal Growth, Psychological Safety The following music was used for this episode: Music: Underground Shadows by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 504 | How Leaders Can Reduce Stress Without Lowering the Bar, with Amy Leneker
Mar 3100:33:19Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy talks with Amy Leneker, leadership coach, joy strategist, and author of Cheers to Monday. Amy's journey began with a burnout so severe that her doctor put her on medical leave. It took 10 words on a medical form to change everything: "What are your hobbies? What do you do for fun?" She couldn't answer it. That moment sent her on a mission to help leaders recognize stress earlier and respond to it far more intentionally. In this conversation, Amy shares the stress stories many leaders carry without ever questioning them, and why those stories get quietly rewarded in so many organizations. You'll hear how the body whispers warnings long before burnout hits, why most common stress-relief advice actually makes things worse, and how Amy's three-step Un-Stressing Method gives leaders a clear, practical framework to move forward. She also shares a powerful real-world example of a team carrying 73 stressors that simply didn't need to be there—and what happened when they finally saw that. If you're looking for a practical, empowering guide to break the cycle of stress and overwhelm in leadership, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "The story that I inherited, either intentionally or unintentionally, was you just work hard because that's the only choice you have." "I think one of the biggest mistakes that I made was not recognizing how much choice I had." "I couldn't remember the last time that I had real fun." "Those unhealthy stress stories are rewarded." "The majority of ways that we try to manage stress at work actually increase our stress." "When I ignored the whispers, it got to the point where ignoring it was no longer an option.... If you ignore them long enough, then the body's going to scream." "Talking about stress is stressful, but we've got to be able to see it if we're going to be able to do anything about it." "Unclear expectations are resentments waiting to happen." "People pleasing—it's not a healthy dynamic. It's not something that serves you or the people around you." "Stress is contagious. There is no question about it." "Yes, stress is wildly contagious, but so is joy." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:39 Start of Interview 01:52 Early Messages About Work and Stress 04:36 The 10 Words That Changed Everything 06:39 Postponing Joy 07:30 Stress Stories Leaders Believe 08:19 How the Body Signals Burnout Before the Brain Does 11:44 What's Broken About Typical Stress Advice 12:58 Walking Through the Un-Stressing Method 15:03 Why Sequence Matters: See, Sort, Solve 17:32 Solving Stress vs. Fixing It 18:44 The Un-Stressing Method in Action: A Team Story 21:58 The Danger of Unstated Priorities 22:42 People Pleasing as a Warning Sign 23:38 Breaking the Cycle of Stress as a Parent 24:41 End of Interview 25:11 Andy Comments After the Interview 28:16 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Amy and her work at AmyLeneker.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 448 with Marie-Helene Pelletier. It's a book on how to develop resilience when demands are piling up. It's a great follow-up to today's discussion. Episode 398 with Dr. Neha Sangwan, which is a book about learning to recognize wake up calls to help us avoid burnout. Episode 164 with stress researcher Derek Roger. Derek brings a unique perspective to the discussion about stress. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Stress Management, Leadership, Burnout Prevention, Wellbeing, Resilience, Team Culture, People Pleasing, Priority Setting, Workplace Conflict, Joy, Self-Awareness, Communication The following music was used for this episode: Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Summer Morning Full Version by MusicLFiles License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 503 | How to Facilitate Meetings That Actually Lead to Decisions, with Evan Unger
Mar 2500:42:52Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy sits down with Evan Unger, a consultant and trainer who has spent more than 30 years helping leaders facilitate collaborative decision making across projects, programs, and organizations around the world. Evan's work focuses on helping groups move forward when opinions differ, tension is present, and time is limited. This conversation is packed with immediately actionable ideas. Andy and Evan dig into why even experienced leaders struggle in high-stakes meetings, and how Evan's POPRA model (Purpose, Objectives, Process, Roles, Agreements) can transform the way you prepare and run them. They talk about how to manage the "HIPPO" (Highest Paid Person's Opinion) without suppressing the voices you most need to hear, a simple virtual technique called the simultaneous chat that can change the dynamic of any online meeting, and how to make sure your meetings actually land, with clear action items and time to close things out properly. Evan also shares his perspective on where AI fits in the future of facilitation, and some surprisingly personal advice about what he'd tell his younger self. If you're looking for practical, immediately usable tools to run better meetings and lead more collaborative decisions, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "On a scale of zero to a hundred percent, how effective are the meetings you attend? On average, and I can't tell you most of the time I get a number below 60% and often much lower." "My confusion as a leader, as a project manager, is immediately the confusion of the group because the group goes to where I'm at. And if I'm confused, welcome to what's about to happen in your meeting: Confusion, Chaos, Dysfunction." "The other extreme, and this is truly the art of leadership, is even though I have strong opinions as the project manager, I remain completely neutral, but I'm an expert in process, an expert in how I get other experts to come together, collaborate, make decisions, get 'em to buy in." "If I'm the HIPPO and I run the meeting as the expert, I will suppress conversation. People will not tell me what I need to know to make the decision, and I'm going to sub-optimize decisions, and I'm not going get people to buy in." "So the art of leadership is knowing how to start and work from the right side of the continuum where I'm an expert in the process of getting others to collaborate and asking questions to elicit their thinking." "If I'm not hearing from people as the facilitator of the collaborative conversation, that is a first sign that something's gone awry and I need to know how to hold space." "The meeting's purpose and objectives, that's the first tether, the first anchor. If that's not clear, there is no tool or technique that is going to save me." "Time is fuel. And we have limited fuel in the plane flight. When time is running out, we don't go knock on the cockpit and say to the pilot, fly faster." "People say to me, 'Evan, I've got Copilot now. I got these AIs doing all the monitoring and tracking'. It's like, yeah, great, but you can't trust what it said. You still have to come back and say, 'Do we all agree what we decided and where we go from here?'" "The five points were: 1, learn Spanish and become fluent in Spanish. 2, become fluent in Mandarin. 3, make sure you get a hard sciences or engineering degree when you go to school. Do it. Take all the liberal arts courses you want, but have something that people actually want. 4, go do a 10-day silent meditation as soon as you get out of school. And 5, take a backpack when you get out of school. Travel the world for a year.... That list is now down to two points." "The plan is now to find something that can't be AI'd out of existence." "But really, the art of being a good coach, a good consultant, a good parent, a good manager is querying the people to help them figure out their own answer." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:44 Start of Interview 02:00 Evan's Background and Work 03:13 Why Meetings Fail — The Plane Metaphor 05:07 Preparing for High-Stakes Meetings: The POPRA Model 07:48 Distinguishing Purpose from Objectives 08:39 Facilitating Without Formal Authority 11:43 Spotting Meeting Drift 12:58 Balancing Dominant and Quiet Voices 16:12 Face-to-Face Facilitation Techniques 17:22 Handling Challenging Participants 21:17 Ensuring Meetings Land: Follow-Up Habits 23:59 AI and the Future of Facilitation 32:25 Advice to Younger Self 34:37 How These Skills Apply to Life 36:03 End of Interview 36:29 Andy Comments After the Interview 41:22 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Evan and his work at terischwartzassociates.com. You can also connect with him on LinkedIn. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 413 with Rich Malman and Jim Stewart. They talk about what they call meeting goblins and how to deal with them. It's a very project management-specific take on running better project meetings. Episode 246 with Steven Rogelberg. Steven is a meeting researcher, but a really practical guy, and he shares great ideas about running more effective meetings. Episode 72 with Steven Rogelberg. An earlier conversation with Steven that is still packed with practical ideas on making meetings work. Episode 245 with Elise Keith. Elise is a meeting researcher who shares so many practical ideas on how to make meetings more effective—ideas Andy still calls back to years later. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Meeting Facilitation, Collaborative Leadership, Decision Making, HIPPO Effect, Virtual Meetings, Meeting Preparation, Time Management, AI, Project Management, Change Management, Communication, Facilitation Tools The following music was used for this episode: Music: Ignotus by Agnese Valmaggia License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Fashion Corporate by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 502 | When Process Is Not Enough: The Human Side of Project Leadership, with Brett Harned
Mar 1700:44:24Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy talks with Brett Harned, founder of the Digital PM Community and the Digital PM Summit, and author of Project Management for Humans: Helping People Get Things Done. Brett has spent years coaching project leaders and helping organizations rethink what project management really is. His core conviction: the human side of the work is not a nice-to-have. It is the work. In this conversation, you'll hear how Brett fell into project management and what early experiences shaped his perspective on people and projects. You'll learn the patterns he sees repeated across teams and industries, practical habits for when projects feel messy or start to drift, and why he believes project management is a leadership role that most organizations still undervalue. Brett also shares his candid take on AI, what it can and cannot do for project leaders, and what advice he would give his younger self. If you lead projects or teams, whether or not you have a PM title, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "Often with PMs, it's finding or receiving or feeling the permission to lead like a human instead of like a machine or a robot." "Projects fail because conversations didn't happen or they happened way too late." "Project management is a leadership role and too often organizations don't see it as a leadership role the way that they should." "Project managers are quietly carrying emotional labor that no one really acknowledges." "You can't earn trust by being invisible." "The role has become less about task tracking and more about judgment, good communication and trust building." "If you call people on your team resources, they have every right to call you overhead." "Slowing conversations down before speeding up the work is like the biggest thing." "Drift isn't usually about effort. It's about misaligned understanding." "AI is not going to replace a really good leader." "AI is great at admin. It's terrible at the leadership stuff. It can't read the room, it can't navigate tension, it can't earn trust." "Say the thing now. Saying something early is almost always safer than saying it too late." "The job of a project manager isn't to absorb chaos. It's to make it a conversation." "Caring about people and building relationships is a skill, and it's a skill that's necessary for this career." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:52 Start of Interview 01:57 How Brett Describes What He Does 03:29 When the People Side Became Clear 06:52 Patterns Across Teams and Organizations 10:32 How Expectations of the PM Role Have Changed 12:28 The Impact of Remote and Hybrid Work 15:26 Practices for When Projects Feel Messy 18:20 How to Name What Is Happening Out Loud 21:30 A Question for When Projects Start to Drift 23:43 How AI Will and Won't Change the PM Role 25:50 Practical Ways Brett Uses AI 30:21 Advice to Younger Brett 33:40 How PM Skills Show Up Outside of Work 35:58 The PM Squad and Same Team Partners 38:01 End of Interview 38:22 Andy Comments After the Interview 41:30 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Brett and his work at SameTeamPartners.com and BrettHarned.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 336 with Clint Padgett. During the interview with Brett, Andy mentioned the weakness of using only percent complete or status colors. That's something Clint and Andy talked about in episode 336. Episode 99 with Mike Roberto. The topic of conflict came up several times in this discussion. In episode 99, Mike and Andy talk about managing the tension between conflict and consensus. It's a discussion worth hearing, especially if you grew up thinking conflict is mostly a negative. Episode 500 with Steve Brown, former Google DeepMind futurist. Andy and Steve talk about AI and the future of work, and it's a discussion highly recommended for anyone leading projects today. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa—the podcast's AI persona—to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Project Management, Leadership, Team Dynamics, Communication, Emotional Labor, Human-Centered Leadership, Conflict Management, AI, Future of Work, Stakeholder Management, Psychological Safety, Remote Work, Project Recovery The following music was used for this episode: Music: Echo by Alexander Nakarada License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Synthiemania by Frank Schroeter License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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PPP 501 | Hope Is Not a Strategy… Or Is It?, with author Jen Fisher
Mar 1000:47:08Tap to summarizeSummary In this episode, Andy welcomes Jen Fisher, author of Hope Is the Strategy: The Underrated Skill That Transforms Work, Leadership, and Wellbeing. In project management circles, we often hear the phrase "hope is not a strategy." Jen challenges that assumption, arguing that real hope is not wishful thinking at all. Instead, it's a practical cognitive process that can help leaders navigate uncertainty, pressure, and change. In the discussion, Jen explains how hope requires three elements: clear goals, multiple pathways to reach them, and the agency to believe we can influence outcomes. You'll also hear her personal story of realizing she was languishing under constant performance pressure, and how a candid conversation with her boss sparked the beginning of a healthier and more hopeful way of working. Along the way, Jen shares practical tools such as possibility journaling, energy ledgers, and hope spotting. She also explains why vulnerability can be a leadership superpower and how simple language shifts can turn hope killers into hope builders. If you're leading teams and projects under constant pressure and looking for practical ways to sustain both performance and wellbeing, this episode is for you! Sound Bites "How would I describe myself? I'm a hope dealer." "Hope is not flimsy. It's not whimsical." "Real hope actually requires action." "What drives hopelessness is feeling like there's nothing you can do." "Hope is the belief that tomorrow can be better than today." "67% of managers said that they've never been trained in how to manage other people. We put humans in charge of other humans, but we give them very little skill and training in how to lead." "You can perform when you're languishing, but the question is really why should we or why would we want to." "For the first time in my professional life, I actually felt seen and heard and valued." "Toxic positivity only makes people feel worse." "Possibility journaling is really thinking about what might be possible here." "Vulnerability is proof that you're human." "When people are feeling uncertain, they want to connect to somebody that feels human." Chapters 00:00 Introduction 01:45 Start of Interview 02:00 What Hope Is Not: Clearing Up the Misconceptions 03:45 What Real Hope Actually Requires 05:42 Agency and the Feeling of Hopelessness 06:24 Burnout vs. Hopelessness: Is There a Difference? 07:55 Wellbeing Intelligence: The Leadership Skill We're Missing 11:44 Languishing: That Gray Space Between Fine and Flourishing 14:15 The Hidden Cost of Time Pressure on Creativity 17:00 Breaking Through the High-Functioning Facade 20:15 Setting Boundaries as a Recovering People Pleaser 24:03 Practical Tools: Possibility Journal, Energy Ledger, and Hope Spotting 29:15 Vulnerability as a Leadership Superpower 33:46 Hope Killers and Hope Builders: The Language of Hope 38:00 The Hope Audit and the Hope Strategist Toolkit 39:33 Applying Hope at Home and as a Caregiver 41:30 Where to Learn More About Jen 41:26 End of Interview 41:54 Andy Comments After the Interview 45:18 Outtakes Learn More You can learn more about Jen and her work at Jen-Fisher.com. For more learning on this topic, check out: Episode 462 with Margie Warrell. Part of Jen's message in the book is the importance of agency—of believing that you're not a victim and that you have options. Margie is a fierce advocate for how to take action when you're feeling hopeless. I highly recommend her work. Episode 448 with Marie-Hélène Pelletier. It's an engaging discussion about burnout and resilience, and a fantastic follow-up to this discussion with Jen. Episode 396 with Thomas Curran. It's an episode on perfectionism, and I think you'll find it an excellent follow-up to this discussion as well. Chat with PMeLa You can chat directly with PMeLa, the podcast's AI persona, to get episode recommendations and answers to your project management and leadership questions. Visit PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com/PMeLa to chat with her. Pass the PMP Exam If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start. Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year! Join Us for LEAD52 I know you want to be a more confident leader–that's why you listen to this podcast. LEAD52 is a global community of people like you who are committed to transforming their ability to lead and deliver. It's 52 weeks of leadership learning, delivered right to your inbox, taking less than 5 minutes a week. And it's all for free. Learn more and sign up at GetLEAD52.com. Thanks! Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast! Talent Triangle: Power Skills Topics: Leadership, Wellbeing, Burnout, Hope, Resilience, Vulnerability, Boundaries, Team Culture, Employee Engagement, Languishing, Psychological Safety, Workplace Performance The following music was used for this episode: Music: Imagefilm 034 by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license Music: Tuesday by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license
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