Chris Dreyer (12:17)

Next is Bob Simon. With venture capital flooding into legal marketing, Bob shows why personal relationships are more valuable than ever.

Bob Simon (12:24)

Most of all of my business is referrals from other lawyers. I don't do direct to consumer marketing. I get almost all my cases from social media, from personal relationships, from brand building. And I think that's the most critical thing that we should be doing right now. Because let's face it, there's a lot of private equity coming into the space. There's a lot of venture capital coming into this space. The marketing opportunity for lawyers is going to be gobbled up by people that have way too much money that we will not be able to compete. So how can we compete as lawyers, as law firms? I think the most critical thing that we all should be doing and be cognizant about is you as a lawyer. You are a brand. These marketing law firms, they're going to want to work with somebody that they like that is accessible, that is a really good fucking lawyer. And you should be able to tell people you're a really good lawyer with honesty and be within your niche, something you love to do and build off of that. It's a lot easier now to start your firm than it was when I did 15 years ago. It's a lot less expensive. There's hardly any overhead. With some simple, smart things that I'll show you, you can compete if you're your own brand. You, as a lawyer can get a percentage of every case you're working on or that you're referring to another lawyer to work on that you are Co counseling on be in the mindset that every opportunity that you have can be monetized. If you have a law license or in Arizona if you're an abs, you can pretty much give referral fee to anybody. But that's a thought process. So use your McLovin license here to get some loving on case opportunities and do this. So that's going to some tactical stuff. I'm a big, big believer in what I say, pursuing your passion. I know an immigration lawyer and she's the kind of lawyer that is literally on the border helping people. It's a thankless job. She doesn't get paid well. But how does she make money as a lawyer? She generates so many leads through her immigration clients that she monetizes them through referrals. Two or three years ago, when I first explained to her that she can make referral fees, she had no idea. This year she will make over a million dollars just on referral fees by building a network to monetize this community that she already has. So as you go through this process and I tell people when they start their own firm or who they want to be is write down the lawyer that you want to be, the things that you love to do and that is your goal, that is your mission statement. If you're doing things every day and it is not aligned with those two things, outsource that shit. Get somebody else to do it. Because if somebody else is just as passionate about motion writing, somebody else is just as passionate about operations. Your law firm, they can do all those things for you. But I like to think of it this way, is that you should be able to find your client their messy or their swift, their Taylor Swift attorney, the best of the best at what they do. I don't do employment, I don't do wage an hour. I don't do criminal, I don't do bankruptcy. But I know the best lawyers that do. And my mission is if somebody calls my office, I'm going to find them the best lawyer for them. And you can also. You should. You've earned the right as a lawyer and you're building your brand, your goodwill. You've earned the right to take a referral fee for that as well. Don't be hesitant to ask. Both sides of people will appreciate it because they'll get a referral without having to do a marketing cost. So when you're doing firm structure, everybody sees these law firms that are like named after like a street or a directional place. It's actually smart because you're building a Brand. Don't name your. Your firm something really dumb like Dumbass and McVale. Right? Bear to Duke Thomas and Ken McPhail. These are actually real people. There's one that's in Northern California defense firm that's called lion and Cheatham. Seriously, that's called lion and Cheatham. They had to put those people together. But when you pick a name, pick something that's easy to remember. My first job was at a firm called Letter, Nojima, Tagler, Farrell, Nopresti. It's a lot of words. A lot of guys just wanted their name on a firm. The email address was ntlb.com you know, many fucking times I had to spell this to somebody phonetically. I go the clerk. The clerk. L as in Larry. And as. Come on. Mine's just now Justice Team. That's pretty easy to remember, right? Pick something that somebody's going to be able to make that contact. Remember immediately who you are, what you do, and how easy they can find you. Don't do LNT lb. That probably lost me so much money. But when I started my firm, we had to bring in phone lines. We had to bring in, like hard office structures. Now you can run an entire virtual office from your smartphone from anywhere. A lot less expensive to do things now. But one of the biggest things as you build your referral networks, as you build yourself as a lawyer to be better, is you have to have a community. You have to have mentorship. A lot of people are in masterminds and all these things. Put yourself in the room, don't be shy about it, but find yourself to get into mentorship. It doesn't matter if you're like Deidre Hayes, who's in Indiana. So you got to go talk to Alex Lemontes. He knows how to litigate and try cases. She wants to start a PI brand. This is who you need to talk to. There's a lot of lawyers out there that will help you. A lot of lawyers or people that are on Instagram, if you slide into their DMs, what's the worst thing that can happen? They don't get back to you. Best thing that could happen, they get back to you and help you for free. A lot of people are selfless and they want to engage and want to help.

Chris Dreyer (17:35)

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Bob Simon (18:16)

When I started my firm 2010, I tried three cases that year by myself. I brought in my twin brother to help operate the firm, but it almost killed me because I was out there trying to operate with this new firm. I started trying these three cases away from the office, trying to generate business, and it was terrible. Ask my wife. We're eating ramen tuna noodles every night because we were trying to survive just to make the office rent and stuff like that. But then I learned something at the end of that year is I could split fees with other lawyers. I was like, you mean to tell me I could bring in. I brought in Brian Panish to try a case the next year? He's like, you mean I could bring in Brian Panish for 50% of the fee and he's going to carry all the costs and spend the $200,000 to get this to trial and I'll get to sit next to him and try the case? We hit that verdict for $9 million and got paid. I was like, holy shit. The client got a way better result than I think I probably could have at that time in my career. Somebody else carried the cost for me, so I was able to use and save that money to reinvest, got an associate, got operations help within the firm, and I learned so much from that trial. And I actually plagiarized the shit out of his PowerPoint. And I still do a lot of the stuff in my closing that he does, he says I owe him a royalty fee, but we'll see about that. So whenever you're thinking about how you're going to drum up business if you're in the personal injury space, I like to think about what we call intermediary referral sources. Who is in your circle that can get you buckets of cases, buckets of cases within your specialty. I used to go door to door to chiropractors to say, hey, can we help refer you cases? And if you have cases, can you refer them to us? I used to sit outside where the orthopedic surgeons on call at Cedars, where after the trauma call, where they would go for drinks afterwards. I'm still good friends with those, with those individuals, and they still send me cases to this day. But that was the hustle. Now it's a lot easier because you could do things a lot more digitally. You can go to LinkedIn, you can start conversations that way. But these are the relationships that you want to build because, again, people will want to work with you because they like you. Right? But intermediary things, chiropractors. Every lawyer that you went to law school with, they could probably send you cases. When I graduated from Pepperdine in Malibu, I went. I paid somebody 12 bucks an hour to find all of their emails to go on the state bar website. I got the list. They pulled all their emails, and I just started emailing them and saying, hey, I pay for referral fees. I just started my firm. I still get cases to this day from other lawyers that I went to law school with. If you're starting your firm, if you're letting it grow, outsource all the shit you don't want to do, because then you can grow and you get to concentrate on stuff that you love. When I started my firm, I love being out there. I love bringing in cases. I love talking to my clients, and I like trying cases. That's all I do at my firm now. That's it. I don't do anything after the case is signed. We have a team for that. Well, all the litigation teams do their thing. I'll come and consult on a trial that I'm getting closer to. Try. I've won in two days. I actually got to check my phone because they're trying to settle with the judge right now. But I might be picking a jury tomorrow afternoon. We shall see. But that's what I love to do, and I'm prepared to do that. All the other stuff, I outsourced, and it makes me a lot happier. And I end up making more money and have a higher quality of life because I structured it that way.

Chris Dreyer (21:14)

Our final speaker is Dave Thomas from Law Tigers. His approach to community engagement is backed by hard danger data showing how authentic community involvement drives real case value.

Dave Thomas (21:24)

It's not about you. Rainmaker. Fun. I love it. Recover billions. Private jets, houses all over the country. The public, your potential client don't care about that. You guys hear me say this all the time. And I'll keep saying, I'll keep screaming from the mountaintops that people do not care how much you know until they know how much you care. Your marketing should be less about you and more about them. If you're making yourself the Hero of your story, then you got it all wrong. Who should be the hero of your story? Your target audience. That's what we do at Law Tigers. See, the truth is that the public do not trust, trust most lawyers. And personally, I think they have it all wrong because the majority of attorneys, you guys are rock stars. However, your marketing sometime doesn't reflect truly who you are. Because we're keeping up with the Joneses, right? We have that FOMO fear of missing out. So we're kind of watching what this firm is doing with this other firm is doing, and then we end up portraying maybe a mismatchage of really who I am at the core. Trust is earned. It is never given. So how do you do that? You have to meet people exactly where they're at. It's all about people. Law Tigers. We're America's motorcycle lawyers. We are ingrained in the communities stretched across the country in 33 states. A big push of what we do is called our grassroots marketing. We have market managers all over the country. They're visiting tow companies, parts stores, dealerships. They're at local rallies. They're at children's shelters, they're at hospitals. This is a collage of not actors, ladies and gentlemen. These are Law Tiger members going out there, winning friends, and influencing people. Well, first thing you want to do is become a legal resource, right? And next, you want to organize these workshops. This is stuff you can take. I'm going to take time here. Okay? Do these workshops. You can cover topics on insurance. You can cover topics on financial loss, or work with, you know, startup companies or businesses, nonprofits. And also, please do not ignore your social media platforms on LinkedIn. All right, next, we want to partner and collaborate. What we want to do is sponsor local companies community events. We want to really join forces with entrepreneurs and startups in your local market. They need you, they need your guidance, they need your leadership. And let's not ignore civil civic engagement as well. Find out what's really important to your community, pressing needs and concerns. So. So next, what we want to do is give back and showcase our commitment. Okay, how do we do that, Dave? Thanks for asking. What we like to do is you want to partner with local charities, fundraiser events. Choose these events on what your attorneys and employees are passionate about because you want them to be involved and educate, educate, educate. It pains me. I speak to attorneys across the country, tons of them, and they said, well, Dave, they never have proper insurance and all this stuff. And I'm like, well, what have you done to change that? That's what these workshops are for. Let's talk about it. Relevant to the community. Financial literacy. What do you do after an accident? So community is more than checking the box. I might piss some people off with this slide, but I had to put it in there. So there's a lot of firms. First of all, full disclosure. There's a lot of firms that's doing this correct way. So if you're giving out turkeys, you're giving out backpacks. Those sent a messenger. But this is where I have a problem. When we are just seasonal community members, when we just focus on the time to help out a need, right? Passing out turkeys, you know, at school, going back to school, giving away backpacks. And I think the toy drives are on the holidays. I mean, that's all fine and dandy, but it has to be a commitment all year long. This has to be a fabric of your firm. You have to be committed to the community. I mean, anyone can go out and go buy turkeys and hand those things out, take a picture, and then get back on social media and say, hey, look what I did for the community. I really feel that as community leaders and attorneys. You guys are leaders. We look up to you, man. We really do. Get out in front of the community. Find out why they can't afford turkeys or an oven to bake them in. Find out why they can't afford a damn backpack for their child support. Those initiatives teach them how to put resumes together to go out there and work to get gainful employment so you don't have to give them shit. That's the type of commitment that we're honoring. So next, what we want to do is measure and listen to feedback. Because after we do all this stuff, we don't want to just throw spaghetti against the wall and hope that it sticks. Right? So you want to track your engagement, track your attendance, web traffic, your initiatives. We do this through HubSpot, and we also use Salesforce as well. Okay, and so what does this help you do? It helps you kind of refine your approach of what's working, what's not, and what you need to continue. All right, so let's make sure we track it. So you analytical folks, let's jump into the numbers. All right, so grassroots activity, last year and this year date span, we're in 33 states, as I mentioned earlier, close to 1500 cities, close to 2900 shops, close to 4300 events. So last year activity, we have close to 3700 shop and club visits. Total events supported, close to 2,600. Let's look at the results. So last year, 2023, lead attribution. Yeah, 65%. Which combines digital, traditional referrals and a whopping 35% for grassroots. Our sales funnel, well, the viables are at 44%. Our conversion is over 90%. That's always a good thing. And our average fee is about 34,000, which is much, much higher than the automobile cases. That's why you want to diversify within motorcycle practice. We'll talk about that later. So this year's activity, total shop over 5,700. It's a lot of shop visits. This is across the country. Total event supported, close to 1700. I'm rounding up. So lead attribution, 64%. Very close. 36% for grassroots. Our viables, 44% conversion, 93%. And our average fee crept up to 36,000. Okay, the numbers don't lie. Proof's in the pudding, guys. Trying to get some range on this. All right, so how to incorporate this thing? This is what I talked about earlier. So this is pretty clever. I think it's pretty cool. So for you small and mid sized firms, large firms use this as well. But if you're small to midsize, you say, hey guys, I don't have the manpower of some of these larger firms have. Dave, we're not in 33 states, but this is what I want you to do. I want you to take advantage of your, your resources that you do have. And that's the employees, that's part of your, your firm. Right. Encourage employee participation. Right. Build quarterly team bonding events out in the community. We do this at LOL Tigers. Like we'll go feed the homeless and we're actually signed up to do the Special Olympics and then we're required to do two on our own. That's how passionate we are about giving back to the community. And these are paid days, by the way. Right. So we really encourage this. Recognize and celebrate these achievements. Pit this into your in your evals. I know you guys probably work off of KPIs or goals. If you don't, you probably should incorporate that Pit. This is part of the KPIs for your team members. But again, find out what they're passionate about and they're going to be in the community and they're going to love it because now they feel that you're listening to them and stay informed about what's going on around the community. And that's how you can tailor your events and your outreach. So this is the grassroots marketing pyramid. We're lawyers. First thing we want to do, we want to engage, actively involve yourselves in your community. Next, what we want to do is be an advocate. Be a champion of your brand and your commitment to the community. Be the resource. Be the resource. Next, we want to collaborate together in partnership with our community. Then we want to educate. Here come the educate word again. We have to educate because you can bring fish to people and they're going to eat. How about we teach them how to fish? We have to equip them with the right knowledge and information that's going to empower them. And last but not least, we want to sustain baby. We don't want all this hard work that we've committed to go away. So that's your commitment. Long term community relations.

Chris Dreyer (30:27)

There you have it. Just a taste of what pimcom delivers. If you're ready to share your expertise with the PI community, the application link for our community speak. Your spot is in the show Notes. Can't wait to see you in Scottsdale this October. Thanks for listening to Personal Injury Mastermind. I'm Chris Dreyer. Thanks for hanging out. See you next time I'm out.