← Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
317. The Secret to Getting 200 Cases in Your First 6 Months and The Referral Strategy That Beats Advertising w/ Travis Meltzer
00:24:10
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- [00:04]
A
What if you could build a seven figure law firm, but without the million dollar ad spend? Today's guest did it in just two years. Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. I'm Chris Dreyer, founder and CEO of Rankings IO. Each week we dive into the strategies behind the most successful personal injury law firms in the nation. When Travis Meltzer left insurance defense work to launch Valley Injury Law, he had zero clients, zero funding, and nothing but a laptop. By month six, he had. He had 200 cases signed up. If you're tired of hearing that massive ad spend is the only path to success, you need to hear this episode. Let's go. So what sparked that decision to leave the defense work behind and launch your own plaintiffs firm?
- [00:45]
B
Yeah, it was more, for me, not feeling great about what I did. I enjoyed the legal side of it. I enjoyed litigation, I enjoyed going to court, I enjoyed depositions. But I hated what I was doing. So I felt that plaintiff's work was the best way for me to just help people and really just feel good about what I did day to day.
- [01:06]
A
You started in September 2022, and within six months you had nearly 200 cases. So we gotta talk about that. Everybody wants to know how you got the 200 cases. What was the tipping point for the fire hydrant cases to start coming in?
- [01:19]
B
Yeah, so for me, it was really the local partnerships with larger firms and then also partnerships regionally. I've really focused on creating a, what I call a regional referral network for our firm. I started cold calling, cold emailing, cold Facebooking, cold LinkedIn, whatever you want to say, saying, hey, we have a firm out here in Arizona. I don't have a referral partner in Colorado or California. Would you like to be that partner or at least add us to your list? I just asked, and it's one of those things that I've really tried to push others and friends and people that you've even had on the podcast before is just ask. It doesn't hurt.
- [02:03]
A
Yeah, so. So did you look up on shows like mine and others that you know, other PI shows, and you're like, hey, that. That guy runs a good at pretty good practice. Probably has some volume.
- [02:14]
B
Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, people like you pointed me in the right direction to really just see who I could reach out to. And then obviously from that point, you create these relationships with people that have been in the business and been in the market forever. So if you ever have issues or questions, it also just kind of creates a nice info bank for you.
- [02:35]
A
How did you think about, you know, Your model or if you're cases, refer cases, try cases, just, just tell me about that. Like the planning period of opening your practice.
- [02:47]
B
Yeah. So with, you know, working with and working with other large firms, I've really seen kind of what, what works and what doesn't. And so what I've seen and what I really enjoy, what we do at our firm is the attorney is involved at every step of the way. The same attorney is involved from intake, is available on the intake call, all the way to trial if need be. And so it's one of those things where I hated handing clients off to another attorney or I, you know, you build this rapport, you build this relationship. You know, the case, why not take it to trial, why not take it to litigation? So for me, I, I call it kind of the spoke, the wheel spoke and wheel management style where I'm always at the center of the file. It might go to an accountant, it might go to another paralegal or something like that. But I just wanted the clients to really know one, who their attorney is and that they can always reach out to me or their paralegal and always have someone to talk to. So it's really helped develop not only the cases when moving forward, but also the relationships with the clients. And those have also developed into great referral sources as well.
- [04:00]
A
Tell me about like your CRM selection. Did you, did you choose a legal based CRM? Did you go with something more like Salesforce? Like, like how are you managing on the sales side?
- [04:10]
B
We have just done it through our case management software that we use the intake process through that. And it's been able for us to really track where cases are coming from, where they should be coming from, the quality of the case based on, I mean, we have items that are broken down quality of case from referral partner. So we understand like, you know, the Chris Dreyer firm has been sending us, while they only send us three cases, the average fee per case on those are well above, you know, the average. So that is the partner that I just, from a business perspective and a sales perspective that I would then communicate with more, really put focus in, make sure the best teams are on those cases and really groom that, that referral portion.
- [04:57]
A
Yeah, and I guess, I guess some firms are maybe sending you maybe an auto or premises or type case. And then the other ones are like, hey, do you want an SSDI case? Not to say that there isn't a place for those, but they gotta be, be really specific handling those. You know, I also saw in an interview I believe or when we were researching you credited Attorney Share as being a game changing tool for growth. I, it's funny, I have a text literally from Bob on my phone right now. I think he's on a plane. But we're ready to talk later today. So talk to me about Attorney Share, how it's impacted your, your, your firm and how you're using it.
- [05:33]
B
Yeah, so Attorney Share has been wonderful. I mean it's been one of those things that it's, you know, I'm sure most of your listeners know what it is, but it's essentially a marketplace where attorneys can post cases, leads, mostly cases, pre screen cases, and people will bid of some sort and say hey, I will accept it if, and I'll give you 40% of the, you know, the fee in the back end. And what I've been able to do is, you know, really not only get cases from there because I mean it pops up on your phone. So I just get it on my phone, I click bid accept and then you don't even get charged until you sign the client. So it's really a no risk from our perspective. But also a lot of the partnerships I'll say in California with multiple large California firms have come from attorneyshare because then attorneyshare has now set up this thing, I think it's called waterfall referrals I believe is what they're called where a firm can give you basically first right of refusal of a lead and there's no charge for that. So it's really three leads and you just continue this relationship. I mean we are getting direct calls or direct leads from large firms, California including Sweet James and Average Law and lots of good firms out there. And we've really developed those relationships to the point that we are their first rate of refusal for Arizona cases.
- [07:00]
A
That's incredible. That's incredible. I, you know, there's so many individuals that get these out of jurisdiction leads or leads outside of their practice area. And I think there's integrations directly. I sound like I'm selling Attorney Share. I promise the audience, this is me just digging in and, and because I think it's valuable. I think a lot of our listeners don't have the multi million dollar budgets just go jam on TV and radio. And I think this is a solution, can be one of the tools to, to help make an impact. Tell me about the team composition because now in, in two years you're already a million dollar practice. You know, what's the operation look like? Tell me about that composition.
- [07:42]
B
Yeah, so Right now, I mean, I am the only attorney still. And so that has been fun. But we have three paralegals, two of which speak Spanish, which is great for our region. I also have a intake and business development lead that takes almost all, if not all of our intake calls from the beginning and then builds the file in our system and then assigns it out to the parent paralegal. And then paralegals are the, you know, the one stop shop. They do it all. I'm very fortunate with my team that they know it from start to finish in terms of pre litigation. And then we brought on a paralegal to really help me with litigation. So it's just been, you know, like I said that, that spoke, that wheel spoke type management, where I'm, I'm involved in every level. And what's nice is the case. We don't sign a case unless it touches my desk and unless it comes through me, I review it at the very least. And so we know every case that's coming through. Exactly what we should get on a case like that, particularly like what we talked about before, based on who it's coming from, where it's coming from. And it's been really nice. I mean, the team. I got very lucky. I mean, I've. A couple of paralegals have been doing this even longer than I have, so we're in a good spot.
- [09:00]
A
Yeah. And, and I appreciate that. And, and you're, you're connected. You don't have a million meetings. There's, there's. You're. You can make decisions quickly. You're really informed. You know, you don't have those silos like the large, you know, super large firms have. Talk to me about those. Those early paralegals, like, you know, how are you sourcing talent? You, you know, is it old school? Indeed. Was it relationships? Like, tell me about them, because they seem like, you know, really pivotal components of the team.
- [09:28]
B
No, absolutely. Yeah. And it's mostly been relationships. I was fortunate enough to work with one of my paralegals before. I was trying to, for lack of a better phrase, steal her when I had other jobs before and bring her over. Even to the point where, when I wanted to start my firm, and this goes to the two paralegals that I started, I said, look, what do you need to leave your job? Because you're the one taking the risk, too. You're leaving a steady paycheck to take a risk on me and Valley Injury law. What do you need? I'm not going to negotiate. I don't Want to. I'm not going to lowball you. What do you need to leave? And the two paralegals said this and I said, all right, well see you Monday. And so it's just been one of those things that because they bought in early, they have grown to have ownership of the firm as well, which is what I really love about our firm. It's not about me as much as it, I mean, granted I'm the only lawyer. I can't do anything else without me. But hopefully as we grow and get more attorneys in the firm and do things like that, it's not about me, it's about the group. It's more about the team. It's not just the Travis Meltzer law firm.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah, that, that labor based leverage, you know, allows you to do more, multiplies your efforts. We've talked a little bit about this already, but I kind of want you to. I think it would be a fun thought exercise to have you reverse engineer this, this path to your first million. Just kind of like what pops into your brain on, on the critical components to get there, the things that you have to go through. I'll let you riff for a little bit and just talk to the audience.
- [11:00]
B
It was a lot of trial and error. When you start a firm, you're always concerned where that next case is going to come from. You don't know. And especially like you said before, I don't have that million dollar budget. I have 0, 0 backing. It was a bootstrapped, old school type business setup. And so I just had no clue. So in the beginning we would just take everything. I mean, I would take drops from other firms. I said, hey, if you're thinking of dropping cases, let me review it, let me take a look, let me see. And a couple of those cases turned into six figure cases. And so when you're looking at cases, it. I'm very creative and my staff will kill me sometimes. I will take cases that they will not like, they just won't. But some of them work out. I, I mean we've had plenty of those cases. That coverage was an issue, but the injuries were there. But we ended up finding six other policies. And this case went from a $50,000 case to $350,000 case. My staff, you know, it gave me a hard time in the beginning. They've since obviously, you know, changed the tune a little. But it's really just getting lucky in the sense of you taking a risk on cases that most firms wouldn't. And not only if you, you know, if you're not successful or not as successful as you want to be on that case, that's fine, because the client will remember that you're the firm that took it and you're the firm that accepted the case. You're the firm that said, you know what? I got no's from four other firms, but Travis took my case. I might not have got the result I wanted, but he tried. I try really hard to.
- [12:31]
A
As the owner of a digital marketing agency, I see personal injury firms making strategic decisions without the right data every day. Look, I've worked with firms of every size and analyze what really works. Our team at Rankings will map out your entire competitive landscape, identify where cases are falling through the cracks, and show you exactly what moves will drive growth. Want to understand where your market opportunities really are without spending a dime? Visit Rankings IO consultation today.
- [12:55]
B
Look at each case as a person. It sounds weird to say, but really look at each case as a person. Because one, it is, but also it. It allows for me and my staff to really never lose sight that that is a person. It's not just a, hey, this is one of my 180 cases. I need to put a demand out. I need to move it across the desk. But no, this is Chris, this is Travis, this is Peter. And they are always people. And we've really. And it's worked in the sense, because we've tried to make it more of a interpersonal relationship as opposed. Opposed to a. I don't want to say procedural relationship, but a transactional one.
- [13:34]
A
Yeah. So, you know, I, I think it's interesting. I, I want to dig into this a little bit about those cases that, that are turned down. You know, I say this a lot from an SEO perspective. Like, look, if you're on the first page of Google, but you're at the bottom, it's the equivalent of being, you know, on the second or third, because. And the cases that you do receive are probably going to be turned down from the other attorneys, but you looked at it as the person you thought. You know, thought is an issue. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take it to the courtroom. How do you balance the risk though, Right. On some of those cases? Like, this case is gonna need all these expert witnesses and all these additional costs. Like, do you have an example I would love to hear of maybe one that you took and ended up playing out nicely?
- [14:17]
B
Yeah. So, you know, to answer the first question, how do I balance the risk? It. It's one of those things where it's. That's really Where I kind of. I feel like I, you know, learn the hard way on a couple cases from a business perspective. Because. Right. I mean, you spend so much time, even if it's not expert cost, it's time on desk. And that's something that people don't think about, really. If I'm sitting there and the case at best is a 10,000, $5,000 case, but I'm spending hours upon hours upon hours. What did I really, how much did it cost me to work that case? And so, you know, I, I try to look at a case where it's complexity really, you know, if it's a ultra complex case where it's a trucking case and my person went through a stop sign, the truck went through a stop sign. And I need experts to do this and that. It's one of those things where you look at the damages. Right. And if it's worth it, really worth it to put that kind of money into it. So we've gotten more selective when we roll the dice because we have that fortune now that we have the ability to be a little bit more selective. But I'll tell you, I still, I mean, my staff gets on me all the time, but I still take cases because I like the people. I mean, I, I'm a sucker in the sense of like, I will try for this person. I am, you know, a. It just, it's just something ingrained in me that I will try for this person. Yeah. And to the point where I've gotten myself into a case where it's like, well, we're going to lose for sure. There's no way out of this at this point. So I just got to break the news to the client. But then like you said on the other end, I kind of touched on it before where this case, poor guy got hit on a motorcycle on the highway before they signed with us, the third party and first party tender. So it was $50,000, but he has like a million dollars in bills. So I said, look, you're only going to pay us to help get your bills down. But I'm more than happy to help. We can adjust my fee if we need to. Then we start looking at policies and we're able to stack policies. And that's where the ability of the staff really helped a lot too. Cause they were able to locate this, this and that, and that $50,000 case turned into that $350,000 case where the client took home well over six figures.
- [16:32]
A
That's incredible. You know, you're. You're Also in a market, you know, Arizona, it's experiencing a ton of competition. It also, and I don't know if this is, you know, there's a lot more people moving there. I mean, you know, our, our event, we selected Scottsdale. I mean, I think it's just the whole state is blowing up. There's more capital, more and people are moving there. How do you think about the competition? Just because there's. So there's so many firms humping major dollars in the market there.
- [17:03]
B
Right? Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. And even so, I mean I even take, I even take some cases and practice in Nevada as well. So it's not. I go to the easiest. Yeah. So for me, at least initially, while hiding. Not that say never. But I don't plan on being that million dollar budget a month, a minute advertising firm because I think the audiences or audiences or customers or potential clients, that's all they see every day. It's just another person's face slacked onto a call for personal injury. There's a lot of. And don't get wrong, it works. I get it. But for us and why I did what I did with the name of the firm, the logos, things like that, I wanted it to feel local now, no matter how big it got or how big we got, I wanted it to feel like you're. What is it? That corner shop. But it's a law firm. You can come, you can come talk to. Where are your friends? We're from here. This is where we live. We don't do outsourced paralegals. I don't do outsourced assistance. These are the people. These are your neighbors. So the way that we've really differentiated ourselves is we've stayed true to who we are and just plainly been me. Now, if you like me, great. Hopefully people do as you don't. I mean, it's just. It is what it is. But ultimately I am me. And I've really preached to my staff to like be you. I mean, that's why I hired them. That's why they're part of this firm is just be them. And because you've seen those larger firms, especially the ones that kind of come in, there's heavy, heavy turnover. There just is. And there's always. You never know where their case is going to be. My goal was to have a firm like Mike Morse is a perfect example too. More Morris Law Firm that that with employees that just stay. And so that that consistency, not only from a business perspective, but from a client's perspective. Because they can then say, hey, look, I worked with Travis at Valley Injury Law before five, eight years ago. I'd love to send you my, My friend now. And sure, he's still there. And sure enough, he's there. And Mike Morse does a great job in retaining talent. So that's one of those real things that I really want to focus on here.
- [19:14]
A
Yeah, like, you know, the Valley injury, the local feel, the, the. I think everything that you're doing, the, the focus on the client service, taking cases on other people, you won't. I mean, that's like an advertising line. Like, I don't know where you put that or on the site. I, I think some of these stories are incredible. I mean, there, There are plenty that you can't, you know, participate in. And I'm. I'm probably opening a can of worms of your staff. But. But at the same time point, at the same time, I gotta imagine just the feeling of taking that case that didn't look good and having a great outcome. It's just gotta feel amazing. And the whole team just probably loved that.
- [19:53]
B
Oh, absolutely. I mean, those phone calls, I make a lot of bad phone calls I have, you know, you don't share a lot of, you know, but when you get that news, when you're able to share that news with a client that's just been sitting and, you know, you message or email and say, hey, look, we're waiting, waiting, we're looking. Then all of a sudden you get the call and say, hey, guess what? We finally got it. And here's what it is. It's. It's something that really, even the money aside, just the, the grateful. I mean, just how thankful people can be, it really. I don't know, I wouldn't say it gives me a purpose, but it. It definitely makes. It makes that the. The goal that I had in mind and coming to the side of things, that it's working and that there's something out there that's working.
- [20:37]
A
If you found value in Travis's approach to firm building, make sure you're subscribed to Personal Injury Mastermind. Wherever you listen to podcasts, each week we bring you tactical conversations with attorneys and experts who are growing successful practices using innovative strategies. Until next time, I'm Chris Dreyer, and this is Personal Injury Mastermind.
- [20:59]
B
Sa.