← Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
344. BONUS: Follow Them Everywhere: The Programmatic Advantage for PI Firms
00:49:07
Programmatic Ads Unlocked - How Your Ads Can Follow Clients from Candy Crush to Connected TV
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Foreign.
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Well, hello everyone and welcome to Rankings Live virtual event where we'll be discussing how you can use programmatic ads to to supercharge your lead generation efforts for your law firm. I'm Ken Mathley, the VP of Marketing here at Rankings and I'll be your host for today. All right, as folks are filtering in, we'd love to hear where you are tuning in from. So in the chat pane, let us know which city, state, province or even country that you are tuning in from. It is fantastic to see folks from all over tuning in. It does our heart good. So make sure to say hi and let us know where you are at. All right, as we before we get started, I would like to go over a few housekeeping items, move on to the next slide. First, Today's webinar is one hour in length. We'll have approximately 45 minutes to talk through the findings before we move on to the Q and A session. Then we'll have about 10 to 15 minutes to answer any questions you may have. So make sure to put your questions in the question pane as soon as you think of them and we'll get to as many as we can at the end. Secondly, today's webinar is being recorded. An on demand version will be made available to all registrants in two business days or less. You should receive an email as soon as it's available, so be on the lookout. Finally, as I mentioned before, questions are encouraged. We want this to be an interactive learning experience, so make sure to get those questions into the question pane as soon as you think of them. Just so you know, if you stay to the end of this webinar, a PDF version of this presentation with the answers will be made available for download. So stay till the end and be on the lookout and I'll make sure to call it out. But before we get started, I'd like to introduce to you our speakers. First up, we have Chris Dreyer. Chris is our CEO and founder here at Rankings. He's built Rankings to be an elite law firm marketing agency that works with some of the biggest PI firms in the country, enabling them, of course, to dominate their core markets. He's also the host of the podcast Personal Injury Mastermind, author of the book Personal Injury Lawyer Marketing From Good to Goat, and a member of multiple leadership councils including the Forbes Agency Council, the Rolling Stones Culture Council, the Business Journal's Leadership Trust, Fast Company's Executive Board, and the Newsweek Expert Forum. And Chris, just so the audience gets to know you a bit better, Please. Why don't you tell us one little known fact about you?
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I was a world ranked collectible card game player and I won four state championships in college.
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Okay, Okay. I have a lot more questions about that, but I will not digress. Thank you, Chris. Next up, we have Brianna Sudbury. Brianna is our director of paid ads here at Rankings, where she leads our clients paid ad strategy, analytics and high performing campaigns across multiple platforms. With over a decade of experience in digital marketing, Briana has driven impactful results for brands across multiple verticals. Her expertise spans paid advertising strategy, audience building and growth, and data driven optimizations. She is a creative powerhouse who's passionate about leveraging innovative digital solutions and data to drive engagement and conversions for Rankings customers. Brianna, I'm also gonna have to put you on the spot and ask you to tell us one little known fact about you.
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C
Fun fact. None of the women in my family have a sense of smell. I don't know, it's a weird gene deficiency.
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So you had no fear about COVID obviously. Because you know, that's just. Wow. Okay.
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C
No, I was very.
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Yeah, you're. You're ready to go. Okay, well, thank you, Chris. I will let you take it from here.
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All right, let's do it. Let's get nuts on this. Programmatic. Here we go. So guys, programmatic ad spend is set to top $180 billion. Only one in 10 PI firms are using Programmatic outside of just Google Ads display, right? So the opportunity is massive. Next slide. But if you're like me, even though I've been doing a digital marketing for a long time, like what the. What the hell is programmatic? What is ott? What falls under what? It's such a terrible term, you know, over the top television or like what is it? So I guess the next slide I'm going to. I'm going to be. Also just so you guys know, I'm going to be the dumb, dumb asking questions and Brianna's the expert. I'm going to try to put on my I'm the PI attorney hat and ask the questions from your perspective, from your vantage to get the most value. But out of the gate. Brianna, what is programmatic?
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C
Like marketing, but with friggin lasers, remember? Just kidding. Programmatic is how your competitors aren't advertising yet. So it's your unfair advantage. It's automated, it's scalable, it's laser targeted. Basically, no one is flipping through channels to find their favorite show. They aren't really turning into AM FM radio on their commutes or at the Gym. They're not really opening local papers to get headlines, right? But everybody is still watching, listening, reading, just in different places. So they're watching on Hulu, they're listening on Spotify, on podcasts, they are looking on mobile apps for news and games and they're watching streaming tv. So that's kind of what it is. The, the ways you do it. Display advertising. So these are going to be your classic banners, static ads shown across websites and apps. So think Google display Meta's advertising network, audience network. They're perfect for retargeting site visitors, educating your customers on some of your injury rights that you have, and building just that ad frequency so that you're seeing it over and over and over again. You're staying top of mind. You have video ads. Programmatic lets us run video on platforms like Hulu and YouTube. But these are more targeted, right? They can be targeted by zip code behavior. You can even target ER visits. You can get really weird with targeting. This is great for building brand awareness really quickly. Especially for like high value MBA cases. You have mobile ads. This is where people on the are on the go, right? Everyone's on their phone on apps, mobile browsers, in games. This is huge for urgent cases, right? Because it's attached to you at all times. So if somebody is googling symptoms, injury healing times, repair shops after a car accident, that's perfect for that. Native ads. People are still reading articles, right? But they do it online. Native blends into that experience. So it's an educational article like in the note in the local paper. But now you can track engagement. You can follow up with retargeting again. This is great for building more trust even before somebody considers calling. So this is like top things that you should do after a car accident. These are kind of looking like blogs, things like that. News articles, educational content, things like that. Audio advertising. We're not shouting into the airwaves anymore. Now you can reach drivers and gym goers and commuters with targeted Spotify, Pandora, other audio placement ads just like you used to with drivetime Radio. This is people specific to your zip code, to your practice area, to places close to your business. Great for top of mind recall, especially people who aren't ready to call but want to remember your name for later. Then you have CTV and ott. That's hard to say concurrently, this is where things get really, really powerful, right? So we can run streaming ads on, on tv, we can do Roku, Amazon, Fire, even Netflix is now offering some. And you're targeting these households by location you can target them by income, you can target them by intent. Think of it more like a billboard, but in someone's living room. And you're only paying when the right person sees it. Overall beauty of programmatic is unification. That is my favorite thing about it. All of these formats can be connected. So if somebody sees your OTT ad, here's your audio spot gets a retargeting banner. This is all consistent messaging that has data fueling it. You're, you're seeing all of that. You're able to track and edit on the fly. This doesn't replace what is currently working. So if you're running TV spots and it's working, keep doing that. If you have billboards up and it's working, keep doing that. This evolves your efforts, putting everything right in front of the people. You want to see it on the channels that they're actually using.
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Amazing. Thank you for that. Yeah. So, you know, let's start with the big one, display retargeting what actually works. I know Google restricts, right. And there's certain platforms. No, you know, adroll restricts like what can you actually do from a display retargeting perspective.
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C
Yeah. So retargeting isn't like stalking people with the same ad. It's showing smarter ads that match where these people are in their decision cycle. So retargeting, you can heavy, heavy hit them, you know, within three days of an accident, you can taper that off. Within two weeks you can set up retargeting pixels on all of your website pages, integrate that data with your CRM, build lookalike audiences for things like meta. You can use static and dynamic display ads targeting specific look like Windows. How you would use that would be like taking people who are looking at your About Me page and targeting a native ad for that. Right. So maybe they are learning about your firm. They, they want, they're in that information gathering section. So hit them with some trust building ads. If there's, you know, obviously there's more advanced programmatic efforts that come with higher intent pages, but you'll hit them where they're at in their decision process.
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I guess, I guess the favorite just from my perspective about this is, you know there's a lot of restrictions on a lot of platforms but some of these DSPs really open up your ability to retarget. Unlike you know, like even we talked about this before, before we got on the show. Some of the restrictions, some of the things like on Facebook and meta, but going through a do sp, it opens up what you could do from a retargeting perspective. I think that, I think that hits it pretty good.
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C
Yeah, Meta and Google, they have very specific ad policies that you have to follow. I think with Programmatic it definitely opens that up. You're more beholden to the bar associations rules and the ethical practices behind your ads.
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Yeah. And we're mostly talking about so PI firms here, you know, so that it vary for family law and other areas of law. So yeah, I think that's good. Let's hit number two here. Yeah, so let's, let's talk about ctv, you know, connected television. You know, how are they reaching these high intent households in a local area?
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C
Yeah, something to remember. With ctv you're not buying super bowl ads. Right. You are buying living rooms in your service area. So this is a brand talking to a family at home. Connected TV gives you billboard sized authority, but zip code precision, very, very targeted. You can use geofence, ctv. So again, Roku, Hulu, Tubi, hitting households near accident zones. You can hit households near hospitals, repair shops, doctors. You can get really cool with some targeting options. An example of this would be running some non skippable pre roll video ads during streaming content. And I have a fun fact. 78% of US households now stream content via CTV. So huge amount of reach, huge pool of people to try and target.
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Yeah. And I guess on the demo, Just really quick on the demo. You know, for me we don't, we, I don't have broadcast or any of that. I'm just streaming. So like I'm, I'm one of those, you know, is it from a demo perspective, is it a younger audience? Is that where we're hitting more on the programmatic or is it a wide range here?
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Totally wide range. My grandma is 86, about 87 years old. She has a Hulu subscription, uses Hulu all the time.
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Cool. All right, moving on. Kind of threw that one in there. So native ads, can they really help build trust for someone ever to call you? I know when I see the outbrain ads and some of these other ads, I'm like, typically it looks like a weight loss drug or something of that nature. Like are PI firms using these native ads or am I thinking about this differently?
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C
No, absolutely. Native ads. Again, that's trust building. We have an exceptional content team here. These look like blog posts, right? You can use all the things that you're doing already to impact your SEO. All of the stuff is probably already written. So using that, putting some ad dollars behind it to build trust behind your brand, it's always going to be helpful. This is also huge for providing more value for the end customer rather than your firm. Right. I think Gary V. Talks about that a lot of like give away everything that you can and you'll have a customer for life. Yeah. So this could look like what to do after car accident in San Diego and then you can retarget all of that coming from, you know, a source with a pixel and you can turn those into actual cases.
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Amazing. So let's talk about the, the overall demand funnel, like you know, the top of funnel, middle of the funnel, bottom of the funnel or if you're talking about creating demand and capturing demand, you know, where does this fit in in regards to the strategy?
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C
Yeah, I think this is OTT is kind of more awareness, I would say. So think of it as like a billboard but in motion with sound and again only shown to people that you really care about reaching. So great for brand recognition, great for brand recall. Again, this could look like a 15 or 30 second ad. This is also great for repurposing some user generated content, some testimonial videos, day in the life kind of videos and then you follow that with like a clickable display ad or retargeting ad or an audio reminder. You can really layer programmatic on top of, of each other and it makes it really punchy and impactful.
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Perfect. You know, so, so let's talk about like the auto accident, right. Case that everyone's trying to reach. So you know, what's the strategy when we're trying to target these individuals from an audio ad perspective.
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C
So the beauty of a car accident case is they're in the car, right. You're listening to audio literally while they're driving in most cases. So this puts your message in the ears when people are in traffic. I know if I was hurt, whether I'm at home or you know, God forbid in the hospital, I'd be on Spotify, I'd be listening to music, I'd be watching streaming. That's just what you do in those situations. So audio specifically you can target Spotify, you can target Pandora, iheart. Programmatic audio, depending on your partner, has like a wide range of inventory. I think the beauty here is using script writing to your advantage. So if you've been hurt in an accident, call now, you know, and setting those geofence targets really close to hospitals, ERs, tow shops, heavy urban areas, heavy areas on the highway that have a lot of collisions, you can get, you can get fun with audio.
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Great. So this is Another big one for me. Like, you know, I'm nerding out playing Clash of Clans and I'm getting frustrated by the, the game ads and. But you know, at the same time one of the first things that, that we do, I know from a YouTube ads perspective, especially if we're doing PMAX, is like we get rid of all these gaming sites. So you know, is this kind of the same strategy? Is this like, you know, far down on the list of targeting, you know, do you do in game ads or what's your thoughts on this?
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C
My, my suggestion would be test it. My, my audience is going to look a lot different than your audience. Depending on geo, depending on user behavior, depending even on what, what types of cases I'm trying to get. You know, I think, I think if your audience watches Hulu, listens to podcasts and plays Candy Crush, like wherever they're playing Candy Crush, your ads should follow them. PI isn't just for daytime tv. People who are playing on their phones can also be injured drivers. Right. So reaching new audiences, of course. Yeah. If it's done right. I think casual gaming has like totally exploded and people like 30 plus in the last couple years. So again, this isn't, I don't know that this is going to be a direct response type of ad. You're not going to get necessarily cases from it. But if you change your name or you're going through a rebrand on your website, this could be a really cool awareness play for you.
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Perfect. Yeah. That answer my question. So how do you keep all the programmatic traffic feeding to the same retargeting system? I mean this is a big one. We don't want to, you know, duplicate efforts. We don't want to create redundancy. So what's the, what's the strategy here?
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Totally biggest strategy, biggest tip is don't silo your channels. Retarget everybody across your platform. So make all of your touch points talk to each other. Think one pixel to rule them all, if you will. Right.
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So I guess this just really quick question on that. I guess the DSP can kind of control that. That's all handled through the DSP. What happens when you start using multiple DSPs?
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I mean having just a unified pixel strategy. Right. So you can use Google Tag Manager and have all of those pixels feeding into a singular place, tying that with a CRM or like a customer data platform. You can get granular in the sense you can UTM tag all of your ads so you can see performance for OTT and native and display and have everything flowing into Google Analytics, including your organic stuff. Just having a singular home for everything is the best you could do.
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Perfect. Yeah. So I guess this is the big one is like how do you scale this? Because there are attribution, it's kind of murky. Right. Because people go to multiple different sites, channels, devices, et cetera. So that's the biggest one. Right. I had a big client in Colorado with a massive budget and it's like well how do we attribute this?
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C
Yeah, I think again just having a unified pixel like Google Tag Manager that'll help with your attribution in terms of scale and like where it would start. Start small, win your local market and then use what's working from the data to expand you. Yeah, you don't want to let your campaigns scale and have these huge bloated campaigns and these huge budgets if you don't even know that they're working it. So I would stage it out. Maybe Stage one looks like some retargeting ads only that can be really, really powerful. Especially if you're retargeting on a bunch of different places all in once. Phase two, you can add in some geotarget, some ctv, some audio. Phase three would be expanding to way, way bigger efforts and audiences. So starting, you know, small is probably look like 5 to 15k probably for like one or two case types and like one or two practice areas. And then within, within the platforms or with your agency, hopefully rankings we can, we can set up rules to automatically increase spends when it hits a specific click through rate or it's performing under a benchmark, we can scale that automatically. The flip side of that, we can also automatically use those to pause underperforming ads. So if it's going for two, three days and you're not seeing metrics where they need to be, you can turn those off so you're not bleeding spend.
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Fantastic. Yeah. So let's talk about the visuals. This is big. You know, how important are they? I know like on our meta ads I've got literally in some scenarios 20 active. I've had up to 200 different ad types and visuals working on meta because of their AI. The AI components like, like what are we looking at from a visual perspective to really succeed here?
- [24:13]
C
Yeah, I mean all, all the, all digital platforms are expanding into more and more AI. So I think you are going to see that more and more. I, I consider generic kind of general ads to kind of fade into the background, kind of be like wallpaper. You shine when you're using local, relevant Images, that's how your firm gets remembered. So maybe this looks like a skyline. I would say that's probably the most broad. You should go. I'll use Dallas as a great example just because I spent a lot of time there. If I'm, if I'm a PI attorney in Dallas, I'm gonna go and do the, you know, backgrounds with the murals in Deep Ellum. I'm gonna have some cool new buildings in Knox Henderson. Like hyper, hyper local visuals are, are going to be how you stand out and how you tie yourself to being that local PI firm. And then in terms of like MBA type stuff showing without dramatization because that's bar regulations, but showing accidents, showing rear end collisions, front end collisions, side T bone. I don't know. I've done them all.
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Yep.
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C
Yeah. They typically outperform regular generic content by about 200%. So.
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Awesome. So, you know, why should we be tracking these calls instead of clicks? And I guess to stamp the point here too, it's like again, how do you attribute that it's programmatic and not, you know, another channel and you, even with your tag manager and things like that, they come in direct, they come in different manners.
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C
Yeah. I mean, making sure your attribution is really tightened up is going to be first and foremost. And I would, I would make a little asterisk on this that you should be tracking everything, but you should be optimizing for, for calls instead of clicks. Right. If not, you're going to be missing a lot of your leads. I think CallRail, a study from CallRail showed that like 75 to 85% of PI cases start via phone. So if you're not optimizing for calls, you are missing out. So this could look like setting up call tracking, syncing that with your intake CRM integration for every single ad campaign you're doing and then using that first party data to build some audiences and, and hopefully turn those into retained clients.
- [26:52]
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Yeah, makes sense. Again, I'm, I'll just say this, I just want to add this one a little note for myself. I think everybody listening should be looking at a blended CAC and a blended, you know, value and return. And because of how murky attribution is between first touch, last touch and the buyer behavior. So I just want to put a little stamp there. So let's talk about compliance. So that's the big one. Right. So that's for me personally, like it's a no brainer for programmatic on the retargeting side because you can't really? You're so restricted on meta on Google and it's like you have so many capabilities to literally just follow people around everywhere on Programmatic. So how do you keep them compliant? What's some of the things you got to deal with on this side?
- [27:44]
C
Yeah, again, every, every platform has ad policies that you have to adhere to. Bar rules are, are the biggest one. So I would say comply first and perform second. Programmatic can be really, really powerful, but only if it's ethical and compliant. So this looks like, you know, no promises or guarantees, no saying we're going to win your case. That's probably going to get you a fine or have your ads disapproved. You need to include like your firm name and contact info on all creatives. You need to avoid emotional manipulation or simulated injury visuals. So no showing people hurt or using exacerbated emotional manipulation to get your point across. And then there's some fun state specific rules too. California, Florida, Texas are by far the strictest. This just means you have to adhere. Check with your local bar compliance or your agency. We have a compliance tracker in house we built and just always include disclaimers for OTT display and your landing pages too.
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A
I'll add one here. Guys, if you say the word injury on like even in your visuals, that that's trickier than some of the other words that you could use to mean the same thing. That's, you know that that's why Google has strict policies against the use of injury. You'll see even some of your ads will be throttled even if you've got it in your copywriting, even if they are allowed. So just be careful with the worst injury. Also, if your DBA includes the word injury, just be cognizant of that too. That's another reason why not to do it. And you should be doing accident using the word accident but continuing on.
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C
Yeah.
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All right, so we hit this. I, you know, I want to do like a double thing here. Like, so we'll hit the bonus here. Let's talk about, you know, how are firms geofencing trigger ads? Let's talk about the HIPAA and all the, you know, some of the HIPAA related concerns and just geo fencing. Talk to me about geofencing.
- [30:04]
C
Yeah, accidents don't happen online. Right. They happen in real streets. Geo fencing is the reason I got into digital ads. I think it is such a cool, kind of creepy way to target people. So geofencing lets you be there first. I would build, you know, if I'm shooting from the hip If I have unlimited budget to do whatever I want, build radius targeting around ers, urgent cares, body shops, tow yards, police stations, high, high accident places on the highway. And then again just you can use cross device pixel tracking. And so if you're driving and you have your phone, when you come to your computer, you go to your TV to watch YouTube ads, it will know that you are the same person and you can see your ads in multiple places. Again, kind of like creepy, fun way of, of using geofencing.
- [31:06]
A
Yeah, let me, let me ask another question. It wasn't on here, so that's great. The geofencing. You know, there's some restrictions. Some of the states, we've got it down on disclaimer around the hospital. But here's the thing about geofencing. Like literally just do a radius like and you get around it and you can still you put the hospital in the radius. So that the HIPAA thing is kind of bullshit as long as you're not doing it like a complete imbecile. But talk to me about pricing. So you know, we're all trying to buy attention just from what, what you're seeing, you know, a cost, you know, CPMs cost per thousand on TV is, you know, you can get them down to six to $15 per thousand. All right. Radio is lower and you can get higher frequency. I've seen, you know, the reach ads, the awareness ads on Facebook are $2 cpms. Like where is the range? I guess this is a very loaded question because there's so many different ways to do programmatic, but like give me like lay of the land or just your general thoughts here on pricing.
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C
Yeah, I mean I think you kind of hit the nail on the head, right? Like your inventory is going to scale that dramatically using premium inventory. Like HBO Max versus Tubi are going to be very different. I've seen CPMs for some of the, you know, more premium inventory reach like 30, 35 bucks. But you're getting again premium content. You're having. How many ads have you seen on hbo? You know, it's far and few between. You're paying a premium to get those premium viewers.
- [32:51]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess, I guess the display ads are going to be like nickels, right? Is that where the, is that where the cost comes in? What about the audio side?
- [33:00]
C
Yeah, I think again there's premium there too, right? Spotify and Pandora, those are more premium. IHeartRadio, any of the like branded platforms are gonna have higher CPMs. I've seen audio anywhere from like 7 to 14 bucks CPM. So again, it just depends on what inventory you're going for.
- [33:26]
A
Perfect. Yeah. See, if you want to get that junk remnant stuff, I guess you can go the low dollar to get the most impressions, but maybe it's not the highest quality channel. Maybe you're getting bombarded with ads. So.
- [33:38]
C
And mixing it is great too. Right. So I'm a huge fan of testing. You don't know until you have data to inform your decisions. So have. Have 10, 20 of whatever your ad spend is set aside for testing, and that's not impacting the bulk of your budget, that's not impacting the bulk of your performance. But you're able to kind of play around, do these new fun audio tests, video tests, in game tests, and maybe something will pop off.
- [34:12]
A
Cool. I don't know if I'm supposed to go or Ken, but I just want to say something before we get into the Q A. Guys, if you're. If the one thing that we do the little different at rankings and I'm going to do a little plug here is we do not charge a percentage fee on the management of ads. So if you spend $1,000 on ads or you spend $100,000 on ads, we do a fixed fee. I can guarantee you that your media agency or whoever you're working with does not do that. So we're incentivized for you to drive cases, not to just increase your spend. Just increase your spend. So that's the only thing I'm going to say. If you guys have questions about this, you want an audit, please email Brianna because she's the expert, not me. But I'm happy to get you in touch and answer your questions as well. There's the emails down below. Ken, take it away.
- [35:02]
B
Awesome. Okay, well, thank you both. We did have quite a few questions come in, so we will. And Seth, I see your. Your question on what is the fee? We do have a. A nice clean tier structure that either Chris or Brianna or a member of our sales team would be happy to talk that through. But we did have a few questions that came through that I want to throw out to either one of you. And I'll let it just be a grab bag as to who wants to answer which. But the first one that came in was how competitive is CTV for personal injury or medical malpractice?
- [35:48]
C
Not hugely competitive. Right. So I think we set it before only a couple. Only like 1 in 10 are even doing programmatic right now. I think there's a lot of space and a Lot of room for PI.
- [36:07]
A
Yeah, I think, I think on the, on the medical malpractice side, I mean, specifically, you know, if you're trying to get birth injury cases, cerebral palsy, I think there's a big opportunity there. I also think there's a big opportunity for mass torts. Depending upon the tort, it gives you a little bit more specific targeting options. You know, think of your. Think of like Camp Lejeune and North Carolina and where those, where those users were impacted and just how specific you can get from a programmatic. Programmatic perspective. So those are just some things to think about.
- [36:41]
B
Oh, that's great. Okay, so this one's. This one might be a little bit tough to answer, but I'll throw it out there. How can I tell which ads are actually bringing in the cases? Is there a way for me to know?
- [36:56]
C
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's all going to be your attribution. That's going to be your UTM strategy. That's going to be how clean all of your Google Analytics data is. And then tying that to your CRM so you can actually see, you know, the, the campaign names. Is there a consistent naming structure here at rankings? We have that we try and make it really, really clear for you to see point A to point B.
- [37:24]
A
There's, there's a couple things here I want to add. So you can do incremental tests on different DMAs. So you could do, say you're on a TV and a radio or an ad strategy in one market. You could target a different DMA so that you're isolating it from an incremental testing perspective. The other thing that you can do, and Brianna, you can explain, everyone knows how to use a QR code. Now post Covid. Like, everybody knows. And I'm not saying every consumer in the household is going to scan this QR code, but can you talk about the QR codes and their use as it relates to programmatic?
- [37:56]
C
Yeah. So you get data by the device that you're watching these CTV ads or your video ads on. But if you can, if you can have a QR code up on your screen and somebody can scan that, that's like a validating metric that you can use. Much more impactful than like a click. It's basically a click. It tags it with additional pixels you can retarget. It's a much more engaged audience than just a viewer. So I'm, yeah, I'm not, I'm not, not a fan of QR codes, but if done correctly, they're they're really powerful.
- [38:40]
A
Great.
- [38:41]
B
Well, if you ever want to hear a slight tirade, just ask Chris what he thinks about QR codes.
- [38:50]
C
Chris has feelings about QR codes?
- [38:51]
B
Well, yes. You know, but it is, it is funny. QR codes can be a little bit polarizing because either people like to use them or they don't. Um, but on the whole, they, they can be a useful tactic. Okay, so this one actually came in and it's, it's kind of interesting. I'll, I'll read the RAW script and then maybe we can kind of riff a little bit. But, you know, why do my ads keep getting disapproved or flagged? And I know that's probably a multi tier answer, but I'll, I'll just throw that out. Is there any common reasons why you both have seen why, why these get flagged?
- [39:31]
A
I mean, for me, first of all, for me, if you have the word injury on your ad, I mean, you're fucked. Sorry, I'd probably just lost some viewership there. But Brianna, I'll let you expound on that.
- [39:47]
C
Yeah, Bar compliance is extremely picky. This would be an awesome use case. Shoot us over an email, we'll do an audit on your ads. We'll tell you what's, what's going on. We would love to run them for you and hopefully get them approved.
- [40:06]
A
It's kind of hard sizing size. Too much text. There's a lot of different. The actual words and phrases.
- [40:16]
C
Yeah, sorry.
- [40:20]
B
Yeah, I was going to say. I know, I know. You know, a lot of times even just being a pixel off on the size can sometimes kick it back. Okay, so why is my click through rates so low compared to Google Ads?
- [40:38]
C
Is this specific to programmatic?
- [40:40]
B
I'm assuming I am. I'm assuming this is like display ads. I'm assuming.
- [40:45]
C
It'S, it's probably because they're, they're being shown on things where you can't click on them. Right. So a lot of them. Yeah. Chris's point. Intent versus non intent. How it's. How it's being phrased, how it's being worded, where it's being placed. That all plays a huge role in attributing ctr.
- [41:10]
A
Yeah, I mean, people are, a lot of times the display ads in the sidebar, people aren't actively seeking to click those or scrolling to the bottom of an article to click an outbrain ad. You know, even the native ads in the body content, people aren't just going to click through. It's just, it's their condition to skip those. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't see the ad and they don't get brand reinforcement. So there's a lot of reasons and then just the intent. Like the search ads, when someone types in car, accent, lawyer and the best virtual real estate on Google is you know, above the fold. The Google Ads, I mean they're just more likely to be clicked so they're more specific. And so there's a lot of reasons to it. But that's typical of like display in general is just low CTR. If you look at Pro, if you look at PMAX, you look at all of these, your YouTube ads are going to be, they're going to be lower.
- [42:07]
B
Yeah, yeah, I was going to say I know. You know, just using display ads across the web a decent click through rate was 0.08 whereas Google, you know, you're definitely worth north of 1, 2, 3% so just magnitudes better. But to your point Chris, and I'll throw this out, you know doing, doing like audience list studies of know, doing a control group versus those that have seen display ads. Typically you see a bigger rise with those that have seen the display ad. Even though they didn't click, they still eventually come around to your website. Have you, have you kind of seen that using control groups and things like that?
- [42:57]
C
Yeah, I mean the more, the more times you can see your ad, the better you're going to be. Right. I think it used To Be Like 7 Times for your, your brand or your, you know, your company to make a mark. Now it's up to 13. So people, users are fragmented, audiences, attention spans are fragmented. You know, more is more.
- [43:28]
B
Okay. Should I be using different creatives for different platforms?
- [43:34]
C
Absolutely.
- [43:36]
A
Yes.
- [43:37]
C
I would say the same theme. Right. Don't like make one blue, one orange. But if it's an audio ad, it's going to look and sound a lot different than a TV ad. It's going to look and sound and feel a lot different than a native ad. It's going to look, sound and feel a lot different than a display ad. So obviously sizing plays a huge role. I would say messaging also plays a huge role.
- [44:03]
A
Yeah, I mean, I mean look, if you're, let's talk about audio specific. Right. Are you targeting you know, urban or you targeting like country? Right. And like the type of content that the consumers would want on each of those platforms and the demos like you got to be cognizant of that and create you know, content specific to that, that audience group.
- [44:23]
C
Yeah. The coolest part about Programmatic is just the, the targeting that you can do. And so this is a total playground to FLE where you know, you can be really creative. You can do only female based creative. You could do male, you could do gender splits, you can do visually, you know what you're seeing. Have that be different. Maybe it's a person, maybe it's an animal, maybe it's an accident. Test everything and see what works.
- [44:55]
B
Okay, great. Well, last, last question. This is kind of a fun one, but why do I see ads from my own firm when I'm outside the target area?
- [45:06]
C
Probably retargeting.
- [45:08]
A
There you go.
- [45:10]
B
Okay.
- [45:11]
C
I mean you're also probably clicking on a bunch of ads. You know, that shows that you're engaged, it shows that you're interested, it shows that you have intent. So don't, don't click on your ads.
- [45:25]
A
Yeah, I know. I went to, I took a trip to, I'm in Southern Illinois and I took a trip to San Antonio and there's a period of, there was about a month where I get retargeting ads from Texas based PI firms to. So that occurs. Also I think there's one more question here. People condition to skip ads or ignore QR codes, especially when streaming. What's the value of that? Well, you see it, right? It's the, it's the brand recognition. It's, it's, it's more top of funnel awareness. Like it's awareness piece. Just like for the same purposes of you investing in a billboard or a TV advertisement. You know, it's, it's just general awareness so that when you know, especially on the, on the injury victims, you don't know when an accident's going to occur and you need to be top of mind for the choice and not a choice when that accident occurs.
- [46:15]
C
Yep.
- [46:16]
B
Awesome. Well, perfect. Thank you both Chris and Briana for, for coming on in and giving us this presentation and the Q and A time. I know it has been a jam packed session so thank you very much and as Chris mentioned before, we are always here to answer questions. So if anything comes up you want to talk to us further, we are just an email away. Okay. So last but not least, we did promise that we would get the, the PDF of this presentation to you. It's just hit now in the chat pane so please feel free to download it. It has the presentation and the, the nice condensed answers that you have it Also as mentioned, the on demand version of this will be made available in two business days or less. So be on the lookout in your email inbox for that as well. And as the slide mentioned here on the screen, we're going to keep bringing you the freshest insights on how you can continue to be at the top of your marketing game. So be on the lookout for next month's webinar in your email inbox. But as we wrap things up, I want to close with what Chris said at the top of the hour. US programmatic display ad spend is set to top 180 billion, but only one in 10 law firms are using it Beyond Google Ads Today, the legal industry is more competitive than ever. If you are in a saturated market, as most of you are, standing out requires precision, data driven decisions and innovative marketing strategies. Programmatic advertising offers you a smarter, more scalable way for your firms to attract and retain high quality leads. All that said, finding the right marketing partner to supercharge your programmatic efforts is essential. They can help outline your goals, construct the right strategy, build the right ad content, and make sure you're hitting your intake goals. As always, Rankings is here to help you get the most out of your lead generation efforts. Our expertise and understanding of the legal market puts you, our clients, in the winning position. So contact us today to see how you can get the most out of your marketing campaigns. You won't be disappointed, right?
- [49:04]
A
Bye. Thank you.
- [49:05]
C
Thanks everybody.