Personal Injury Mastermind – Episode 353.10

Candid PI Marketing Lessons w/ Chris Dreyer & Gary Sarner

Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Chris Dreyer (Rankings.io)
Guest: Gary Sarner (ROI360)

Overview

In this dynamic episode, Chris Dreyer and Gary Sarner dive deep into the real-world strategies of personal injury (PI) law firm marketing, putting their decades of experience to the test in a rapid-fire “5 questions each” format. The conversation is an unscripted, candid exchange about paid media channels, creative success, brand-building patience, and their personal inspirations—offering PI attorneys a rare, insider look at what’s truly working in today’s evolving legal marketing landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

TV vs. Radio vs. Streaming – Where to Invest?

[00:54–04:26]

• Changing Audience Habits:
  • Traditional TV is losing younger viewers. Only ~25% of 18–34 year-olds watch, while ~80% still listen to terrestrial radio. Streaming (e.g., Hulu) is growing, but not enough to replace radio for broad reach.
    • Gary: “Over 80% of Americans 18 to 34 years old are still listening to radio. Not streaming radio, traditional terrestrial radio.” (01:36)
• Programmatic and Streaming Audio:
  • Gary despises the term “audio” because platforms like Pandora, Spotify, and podcasts have small reach and high cost compared to radio.
  • For most PI firms, the goal is broad, cost-efficient exposure—not the narrow targeting these platforms offer.
    • Gary: "...If you want to pay a lot of money to reach a small amount of people, very, very targeted, that’s a great channel to go to...I’m not recommending it be a part of what you’re doing in legal." (03:32)

The Formula for Radio Success

[05:56–07:52]

• Avoid Ego Buys:
  • Don’t buy time on your favorite station just to hear yourself. It's about market analysis, not personal preference.
    • Gary: “Do not buy the radio station that you listen to so you could hear your own ad...what we really need to know is what the market looks like.” (06:15)
• Recipe for Winning:
  • 1. Courage: Commit substantial investment.
  • 2. Patience: Returns materialize over time (often 12–18 months).
  • 3. Creative Excellence: Messaging must be authentic and intentional.
    • Gary: “Number one, you have to have a big pair of balls... you must be patient... your creative must be perfect.” (07:52)

How Long Until Results?

[08:44–11:58]

• Building a PI Brand Takes Time:
  • TV return: Expect 12–18 months.
  • Radio may start delivering momentum sooner due to frequency, but patience is vital.
    • Gary: “My line is that anybody who’s new to marketing and trying to go up against all these huge advertisers, you’re going to have brown underwear for the first three months.” (10:30)
• Real Example:
  • A “lawyer’s lawyer” saw major cases after month 4, but unique creative and courage was key.

The Power of Messaging & Personalization

[07:52, 10:50, 22:29]

• Keep Messaging Unique:
  • Don’t mimic competitors—stand out with intentional, authentic creative.
    • Gary: “Be who you are. You can’t be someone else. You aren’t for everybody.” (08:13)
• Frequency Matters:
  • People need repeated exposure before taking action. Radio’s strength is in repeated, broad impressions.

Personal Inspirations & Values

[14:41–19:39]

• Who Inspires Chris Dreyer?
  • His Uncle Alec: Raised Chris’s expectations for life and business, showed wealth can pair with good character.
    • Chris: “It lifted my ceiling for what was possible, and it brought an awareness for wealth.” (14:47)
• Defining Success Beyond Business:
  • For Chris, it’s being a good husband and father—with intentional work/family boundaries.
    • Chris: "When I get home, I shut off the phone, I’m playing Hot Wheels on the floor with my son..." (16:28)
  • For Gary, it’s intentionality and being present for loved ones despite past challenges.
• Admired Legal Minds:
  • Gary was most captivated by Mark Lanier, rating his brief encounter as deeply memorable.
    • Gary: “I was mesmerized. Mesmerized like I’d never been before.” (12:26)

Motivations, Favorite Content, and Passions

[20:45–27:08]

• What Content Resonates Most?
  • Chris seeks relentless, “high-achiever” motivational content—Nick Saban, Andy Frisella, Eminem, Rick Ross, Cardone.
    • Chris: “I cannot consume enough of that...the biggest issue that I have with people...is like, if someone says, I can’t or that won’t work, I’m like, OK, I’ll prove it.” (20:45–22:04)
• Ultimate Concert:
  • Chris: Young Jeezy in St. Louis, ties the music to college memories.
• Why They Compete:
  • Chris loves the competition itself—“second place is the first loser.”
    • Chris: “I love to compete. I love competition...I love the game.” (25:57)
  • Gary is motivated by helping end users and being intentional in client selection. Family is also central.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Radio's Current Power:
  “Over 80% of Americans 18–34 years old are still listening to radio. Not streaming radio, traditional terrestrial radio.”
  – Gary Sarner (01:36)

• On Building Brand Patience:
  “You’re going to have brown underwear for the first three months. And you’re going to say, this sucks. It’s awful. I should never have done this...But the reality is it can work. And it will work if you’re patient.”
  – Gary Sarner (10:30)

• On Messaging:
  “Be who you are. You can’t be someone else. You aren’t for everybody.”
  – Gary Sarner (08:13)

• On Motivation:
  “If someone says, I can’t or that won’t work, I’m like, okay, I’ll prove it. Right? It’s like a challenge. It is like the ultimate motivator.”
  – Chris Dreyer (21:19)

• On Personal Success:
  “Being a good husband and a good father, for sure. I put tremendous energy into that, and it’s not easy for me...”
  – Chris Dreyer (16:28)

• On Competition:
  “Second place is the first loser. I do think third place is worse... I love the game. I love competing. I think it’s fun. It gives me purpose.”
  – Chris Dreyer (25:57)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:54 | TV vs. radio vs. streaming in PI marketing | | 01:32–02:11 | Radio’s demographic power | | 02:55 | Programmatic/streaming audio vs. radio’s cost and targeting| | 05:06 | Frequency in different mediums and “repeat audience” effect| | 06:15 | Recipe for winning with radio | | 07:52 | The three keys to media campaign success | | 08:44 | How long results take in TV vs. radio for PI firms | | 10:30 | Brand-building pains and early returns anecdote | | 12:26 | Gary’s most inspirational attorney speaker (Mark Lanier) | | 14:41 | Chris’s personal inspirations and influences | | 16:28 | What success really means (family, fatherhood, balance) | | 20:45 | What content and ads stop Chris in his tracks | | 25:57 | The “why” – competition, purpose, family | | 28:39 | Gary sharing pride in his children and motivation |

Takeaways & Action Steps for PI Firms

• Diversify your marketing: Rely on both radio and television/streaming, but understand who is really tuning in.
• Don’t chase your own tastes—buy where the market is, not where you want it to be.
• Have the courage to invest, the patience to wait, and the authenticity to stand out.
• Creative matters. Honest, original ads win over copycat campaigns.
• Brand-building is a long game—commit to at least 12–18 months of sustained effort.
• Personal connections and motivations drive not only marketing but long-term business success.

Energy: The episode is rapid-fire and motivational, brimming with real-life examples, direct talk, laughter, and candid truths. Both Dreyer and Sarner share openly about both marketing—what works and what hurts—and what matters most in their lives and careers. A must-listen for PI law firm marketers who want both actionable advice and inspiration.