Personal Injury Mastermind – Episode 353.10
Candid PI Marketing Lessons w/ Chris Dreyer & Gary Sarner
Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Chris Dreyer (Rankings.io)
Guest: Gary Sarner (ROI360)
Overview
In this dynamic episode, Chris Dreyer and Gary Sarner dive deep into the real-world strategies of personal injury (PI) law firm marketing, putting their decades of experience to the test in a rapid-fire “5 questions each” format. The conversation is an unscripted, candid exchange about paid media channels, creative success, brand-building patience, and their personal inspirations—offering PI attorneys a rare, insider look at what’s truly working in today’s evolving legal marketing landscape.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
TV vs. Radio vs. Streaming – Where to Invest?
[00:54–04:26]
- Changing Audience Habits:
- Traditional TV is losing younger viewers. Only ~25% of 18–34 year-olds watch, while ~80% still listen to terrestrial radio. Streaming (e.g., Hulu) is growing, but not enough to replace radio for broad reach.
- Gary: “Over 80% of Americans 18 to 34 years old are still listening to radio. Not streaming radio, traditional terrestrial radio.” (01:36)
- Traditional TV is losing younger viewers. Only ~25% of 18–34 year-olds watch, while ~80% still listen to terrestrial radio. Streaming (e.g., Hulu) is growing, but not enough to replace radio for broad reach.
- Programmatic and Streaming Audio:
- Gary despises the term “audio” because platforms like Pandora, Spotify, and podcasts have small reach and high cost compared to radio.
- For most PI firms, the goal is broad, cost-efficient exposure—not the narrow targeting these platforms offer.
- Gary: "...If you want to pay a lot of money to reach a small amount of people, very, very targeted, that’s a great channel to go to...I’m not recommending it be a part of what you’re doing in legal." (03:32)
The Formula for Radio Success
[05:56–07:52]
- Avoid Ego Buys:
- Don’t buy time on your favorite station just to hear yourself. It's about market analysis, not personal preference.
- Gary: “Do not buy the radio station that you listen to so you could hear your own ad...what we really need to know is what the market looks like.” (06:15)
- Don’t buy time on your favorite station just to hear yourself. It's about market analysis, not personal preference.
- Recipe for Winning:
-
- Courage: Commit substantial investment.
-
- Patience: Returns materialize over time (often 12–18 months).
-
- Creative Excellence: Messaging must be authentic and intentional.
- Gary: “Number one, you have to have a big pair of balls... you must be patient... your creative must be perfect.” (07:52)
-
How Long Until Results?
[08:44–11:58]
- Building a PI Brand Takes Time:
- TV return: Expect 12–18 months.
- Radio may start delivering momentum sooner due to frequency, but patience is vital.
- Gary: “My line is that anybody who’s new to marketing and trying to go up against all these huge advertisers, you’re going to have brown underwear for the first three months.” (10:30)
- Real Example:
- A “lawyer’s lawyer” saw major cases after month 4, but unique creative and courage was key.
The Power of Messaging & Personalization
[07:52, 10:50, 22:29]
- Keep Messaging Unique:
- Don’t mimic competitors—stand out with intentional, authentic creative.
- Gary: “Be who you are. You can’t be someone else. You aren’t for everybody.” (08:13)
- Don’t mimic competitors—stand out with intentional, authentic creative.
- Frequency Matters:
- People need repeated exposure before taking action. Radio’s strength is in repeated, broad impressions.
Personal Inspirations & Values
[14:41–19:39]
- Who Inspires Chris Dreyer?
- His Uncle Alec: Raised Chris’s expectations for life and business, showed wealth can pair with good character.
- Chris: “It lifted my ceiling for what was possible, and it brought an awareness for wealth.” (14:47)
- His Uncle Alec: Raised Chris’s expectations for life and business, showed wealth can pair with good character.
- Defining Success Beyond Business:
- For Chris, it’s being a good husband and father—with intentional work/family boundaries.
- Chris: "When I get home, I shut off the phone, I’m playing Hot Wheels on the floor with my son..." (16:28)
- For Gary, it’s intentionality and being present for loved ones despite past challenges.
- For Chris, it’s being a good husband and father—with intentional work/family boundaries.
- Admired Legal Minds:
- Gary was most captivated by Mark Lanier, rating his brief encounter as deeply memorable.
- Gary: “I was mesmerized. Mesmerized like I’d never been before.” (12:26)
- Gary was most captivated by Mark Lanier, rating his brief encounter as deeply memorable.
Motivations, Favorite Content, and Passions
[20:45–27:08]
- What Content Resonates Most?
- Chris seeks relentless, “high-achiever” motivational content—Nick Saban, Andy Frisella, Eminem, Rick Ross, Cardone.
- Chris: “I cannot consume enough of that...the biggest issue that I have with people...is like, if someone says, I can’t or that won’t work, I’m like, OK, I’ll prove it.” (20:45–22:04)
- Chris seeks relentless, “high-achiever” motivational content—Nick Saban, Andy Frisella, Eminem, Rick Ross, Cardone.
- Ultimate Concert:
- Chris: Young Jeezy in St. Louis, ties the music to college memories.
- Why They Compete:
- Chris loves the competition itself—“second place is the first loser.”
- Chris: “I love to compete. I love competition...I love the game.” (25:57)
- Gary is motivated by helping end users and being intentional in client selection. Family is also central.
- Chris loves the competition itself—“second place is the first loser.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Radio's Current Power:
“Over 80% of Americans 18–34 years old are still listening to radio. Not streaming radio, traditional terrestrial radio.”
– Gary Sarner (01:36) -
On Building Brand Patience:
“You’re going to have brown underwear for the first three months. And you’re going to say, this sucks. It’s awful. I should never have done this...But the reality is it can work. And it will work if you’re patient.”
– Gary Sarner (10:30) -
On Messaging:
“Be who you are. You can’t be someone else. You aren’t for everybody.”
– Gary Sarner (08:13) -
On Motivation:
“If someone says, I can’t or that won’t work, I’m like, okay, I’ll prove it. Right? It’s like a challenge. It is like the ultimate motivator.”
– Chris Dreyer (21:19) -
On Personal Success:
“Being a good husband and a good father, for sure. I put tremendous energy into that, and it’s not easy for me...”
– Chris Dreyer (16:28) -
On Competition:
“Second place is the first loser. I do think third place is worse... I love the game. I love competing. I think it’s fun. It gives me purpose.”
– Chris Dreyer (25:57)
Timestamps for Major Segments
| Time | Segment Description | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:54 | TV vs. radio vs. streaming in PI marketing | | 01:32–02:11 | Radio’s demographic power | | 02:55 | Programmatic/streaming audio vs. radio’s cost and targeting| | 05:06 | Frequency in different mediums and “repeat audience” effect| | 06:15 | Recipe for winning with radio | | 07:52 | The three keys to media campaign success | | 08:44 | How long results take in TV vs. radio for PI firms | | 10:30 | Brand-building pains and early returns anecdote | | 12:26 | Gary’s most inspirational attorney speaker (Mark Lanier) | | 14:41 | Chris’s personal inspirations and influences | | 16:28 | What success really means (family, fatherhood, balance) | | 20:45 | What content and ads stop Chris in his tracks | | 25:57 | The “why” – competition, purpose, family | | 28:39 | Gary sharing pride in his children and motivation |
Takeaways & Action Steps for PI Firms
- Diversify your marketing: Rely on both radio and television/streaming, but understand who is really tuning in.
- Don’t chase your own tastes—buy where the market is, not where you want it to be.
- Have the courage to invest, the patience to wait, and the authenticity to stand out.
- Creative matters. Honest, original ads win over copycat campaigns.
- Brand-building is a long game—commit to at least 12–18 months of sustained effort.
- Personal connections and motivations drive not only marketing but long-term business success.
Energy: The episode is rapid-fire and motivational, brimming with real-life examples, direct talk, laughter, and candid truths. Both Dreyer and Sarner share openly about both marketing—what works and what hurts—and what matters most in their lives and careers. A must-listen for PI law firm marketers who want both actionable advice and inspiration.
