C (2:28)

If you were looking at people to your firm, start with trust. That's how Parag made the jump. A client already believed in him. Trust is the cornerstone of every great personal injury brand. You market it by showing proof, proof in results, proof in how you treat people, proof over promises.

B (2:44)

And so I helped her out with it. It worked out for both of us, frankly. I looked at the numbers and I was like, okay, well, this is good leverage on my time. And it felt good to be able to help her in that situation. And so I've added a bit of a PI practice to my firm, litigated and tried PI cases. I've got multiple top 100 personal injury settlements and even a top 100 personal injury verdict with a case that I tried with a friend and for here in California.

A (3:08)

Yeah, let's dig in. I got so many questions are popping up. Let's start with, like, getting the clients right. There's so much competition. I love, firstly on. On the PI side, the VIP kind of positioning. But let's focus on, you know, the business practice. Like, how are you thinking about getting.

B (3:22)

Clients so these days, Chris, a lot of it, I think, hinges on personal brand and talking about why you do what you do. And I think that's a big driver and then a component of how you do what you do. But to paraphrase Simon Sinek, I think people don't care as much about how you do things or what you do until you tell them why you do it and they know and understand your why. You have to be not only a great marketer, but you also have to be a very great attorney and deliver on the things you're marketing on.

A (3:52)

With your experience being a litigator and, you know, you could pay more to acquire the case and get the business because you have this repertoire to get more value out of it. You're on the forefront of that compared to many other practices that have kind of just got on this assembly line and now we got AI up against that assembly line. Let's talk about the approach. Because business is typically like B2B, right? It's like you're targeting other business owners and what have you. Is that where one of the reasons that came out for crisis to judgment, you know, the podcast, you know, talk to me about the B2B marketing versus direct, you know, B2C.

B (4:25)

Yeah. So, you know, what's interesting is there is an overlap with the idea at the. At the end of the day, you've got a client who needs help. And so first and foremost, whether it's an individual who's injured after an accident or a business owner who's facing their first lawsuit or a second or a third, this is stressful stuff. They want somebody who they can count on and who they really believe in. So first and foremost, I think that's the similarity, is that you're talking to people at the end of the day, decision makers. Whether it's an individual or a corporation, it's gonna be people. And so being able to connect with those people and have them believe in you and look at your results and say, this is the person. For me, I think that that helps a lot. I think there's also similarities with the social proof, meaning if your name's been mentioned a couple times or a few times as the person in the space who really knows what they're doing, that helps tremendously. And the marketing just adds to it. It just echoes your name in different places as well. Or somebody might hear your name on an ad somewhere or see it on the Internet somewhere, and then they might see a video you've posted and maybe get a recommendation from a friend or something. And I think that each one of those little touches ends up helping build trust in that person's mind that I should at least talk to this person and consider this person to help me in my situation.

A (5:47)

There was a study the consumer has to see, or, you know, the prospect has to see you at least seven times before they make a decision. And that study was recreated, I think, last year, and it was up to 13 times just because of how fragmented attention is. And maybe they start at Google, then they go to Facebook, and then they go here or there. So I think what you're saying is absolutely true for the state of the environment, the omnichannel kind of approach.

B (6:11)

Yeah, 100%. I mean, look, it's like rain in the ocean. It's going to take a lot, a lot of rain to increase the sea level. So ultimately, I think it's just an aspect of being out there and having your name in as many places as possible because there is so much chatter and so much noise around everything these days.

A (6:28)

Yeah. Talk to me about the intake side, like your tech stack, like how you're thinking about intake, because you got two different practice areas. You know, you're going to accept the injury cases so you have more criteria, more cases, like different quality standards or criteria to select the case. Like, talk to me about intake.

B (6:43)

Yeah, so the intake process we utilize like BOIP phones and so they get routed. We don't like to have phones ring more than twice. I think there's some statistics around by the third time, like a lot of people will start hanging out. But I mean it's, it's really just based on personal experience, you know, like how many people really like it when they're calling somewhere and the phone rings four or five times. It makes you start wondering after the third ring what's going on over there. And so we use voip that automatically switches depending on how many rings, depending on who's available and not available. So there's that aspect. And then we use the CRM that we type everything into from obviously the simple stuff, name, address, telephone number, date of incident, what happened, some background and then we have some creative follow up. Whether it's phone calls, text messages and, or emails at the end of the day, on the other end of that phone is somebody who needs help. And just understanding that and humanizing that person whose face you haven't seen because it's a phone call I think helps. And I think that's made a big difference in our intake process.

A (7:44)

The human touch, the empathy, the routing that lends itself to trust to the systemic referrals and all the things that kind of compound over time. Which is why that individual hired you for the PI case and she trusted you. Another thing that kind of popped up is this new emerging model of primarily it's like, hey, marketing first and refer out. And I talked to a big firm, one of the biggest in their state, I can't disclose who. And this individual doesn't even like to refer out at all, you know, regardless of the malpractice insurance and what have you. And this is, this is a really big firm. And that was quite surprising to me. Immediately I went into my head and I'm like, gosh, this individual's leaving a ton of money on the table. You know, a simple 33%, you know, a third agreement. And now all the way up to 50% is pretty common. Now this individual is also very successful and has already, you know, kind of reached the top. Is there more to this? Like, is it just.

B (8:39)

No.

A (8:39)

Check the malpractice insurance and you're good to go. You know, like, what's your thoughts of this new emerging model? And you see the ABS is being structured for this reason too. Just any thoughts on that from the.

B (8:49)

Business perspective, I think that there's enough to go around. I don't have that scarcity mindset, I would be fine with it. I mean, at the end of the day, you've got somebody who needs an attorney and they're just going to pick up the phone and call somebody else anyway. So it sounds like it'd be a win win to be able to create a better solution where it's a, it's a collaborative approach. I mean, look, you know, am I going to send it to directly to a competitor who's a one on one competitor right next to my office? No, frankly I'm not. But if it's somebody else who isn't necessarily directly competing with me, but we're in a similar space and it's in a state that I'm not even in, it seems like it would make sense. But again, that's the interesting thing about business is that ultimately everybody kind of gets to design their own flavor of how they want to do it.

A (9:38)

Most agencies sell promises, Rankings delivers proof. We've taken firms from invisible to number one in the toughest PI markets. While others are still scrambling to figure out ChatGPT. We're already optimizing for AI search. So your firm is the answer the clients see first. Don't wait while your competitors eat your lunch. Visit Rankings IO and start dominating search.

C (9:58)

Today, marketing brings the cases in the door. Talent wins it in the courtroom. And when you win, the cycle feeds itself. More trust, more cases and more growth. If you want to scale in personal injury, you can't do it with average players. You need trial lawyers who can close big cases and protect the ground you fought for.

B (10:16)

When it comes to top talent, everybody wants the best and the best want to get paid. And they deserve to get paid because they deliver the results that are the best. And so, you know, in terms of attracting talent, it really kind of, I think depends on what your unique skill set is. So the size of the firm compared to the other firms. And what, what is your unique selling proposition? Why should they want to go with you? Because again, at the end of the day, the person making the decision is a human being. It's a person. And you've got to kind of understand what, what really matters to them. Look, some people, it's, it's all about the money, right? So you've got a mercenary and, and you pay him the most and they might be up for it, but the nature of that transaction is that that is a mercenary and you have to accept that, that there May not be loyalty and it goes to the highest bidder and that's that. And so sometimes there's room for mercenaries depending on what it is you're trying to do. And other times you're looking for somebody who's more loyal, is going to be a company person and you want to invest in them for the long term because you see some sort of integration of them into your long term future. What are your thoughts on Chris?

A (11:20)

It's interesting because I've really evolved my thoughts here because we're, I think we're around 170, maybe even 180 people now. And also at this point, you know, some of the VPs and like higher levels are like getting much bigger compensation that I didn't even think that I would, would be possible when I started. I think biggest thing, yeah the money, motivation, paying them competitive, being overpaying to keep the great talent. Professional services are driven by talent. So even to the degree where I don't care, as long as it's not my clients or firm, we will try to get the best. I'm more on the if my competitors drown and put my head up, my foot on top of their head type of guy if they have great talent. And that's just the way it is. I think most people aren't as transparent about that but at the end of the day we got to provide the best service and it's, it's the business owner's responsibility to keep the talent. So that's kind of my, my approach lately it's a little bit more ruthless. I would say maybe in the first five to six years of business I was more, you know, everybody's my friend and buddy but at the end of the day, you know, we need to provide value to the clients and you know, if there's someone that's better at that then, then I think it's our responsibility to try to obtain that individual. You know I've looked at you know, the indeed stuff and all the different job boards and it's just like what you said, it's like the best players are on the field. Like they're not like some of them might actively be looking or be in a weird spot for a number of scenarios but it seems like the top talents, like they're not looking. Like you got to convince them and have something, some reason for them to come join you.

B (12:52)

Yeah, that's right. And so do you utilize like LinkedIn, direct messages or anything like that or, or is it a different kind of approach?

A (12:59)

Oh yeah. So so we have, I hate the phrase or the, the term hr. It always thinks of, I think of as like cost center, like negative. So ours is more centered around talent. So you know, in house recruiters we use, there's an AI agent called Main Us. You give it the criteria that you want and it will actually create a database of prospects for you to reach out to with their contact information. Works off of anthropic. It'll actually be clickable and sourceable and it's all just very simple prompt. It's not complicated. So we use that. And then I'm kind of old school on my Chrome extension, I've got a recruit folder and anytime I see somebody that's impressive, I'll save their LinkedIn profile and I'll put it in there. And I just touch base with them for years. I'm talking years. Just occasionally touch base with them and then a couple of those will come off the list and they'll come join us. It's just the right timing, the right scenario. So that's I think too and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on this. But I think my role, your role, it evolves over time. And in the beginning, like you're washing the dishes, you're doing everything right. And now it's like I need to find the best talent to do these things. So I find myself doing that a lot more than I used to.

B (14:12)

Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, it's interesting because I was reflecting on that, of the maturity model of an entrepreneur. And part of it is in the beginning it's one to one, right? Whether it's your, you gotta stuff the envelopes yourself and mail them and then print out a stamp or go to the post office. All these like little things when you first start off a business, especially if you started off like, like I did, I was just one person because I didn't have any seating or family background or anything to like fund something different. But anyways, and then you, you move on. You become a leader, a coach. You gotta find the multipliers, you gotta find the leverage, those leverage points. Otherwise you just stay a tactician and only a tactician. And it's just, you're self employed and it's not really a business, which is fine if that's what you really want to do. But I think, I think it's important to not fool ourselves and to using words to define ourselves that we're really not. I'm an avid believer in that.

A (15:04)

I think that's fair. I love Naval Ravikant's kind of his thoughts on the leveraging.

B (15:10)

Yeah, that's right. You know, it is interesting. Naval is very interesting because he does have that very human element to him. But I think it's also. It depends on which chapter of him you're on. So, meaning you see Bill Gates today, which is very different from Bill Gates when he was building Microsoft, because it's interesting how people's feedback changes and what they value. And I always wonder if. If that person, like, for example, big Bill Gates, would be advocating what he is now or even naval, if they hadn't accomplished what they had accomplished, being the person they were in their 20s and 30s.

C (15:47)

The best firms show their strategies because a rising tide lifts all ships. If you're serious about expanding a personal injury or you've already added it and you're ready to capture more market share, talk to us@ Rankings IO. We'll help you plant your flag at the top. You don't have to chart this territory alone. Look to the greats for inspiration and guidance.

B (16:06)

Just in the legal space, there's so many great thinkers and leaders. Probably the one that tends to come to mind a lot is like, for example, John Morgan, just having built what he's built in terms of financial success. And I had the opportunity. What was neat was like, I had a chance to talk to him at a. It was like a cocktail party in Santa Monica. Nice guy. And then at some point, I was talking with a friend and I said, hey, wouldn't it be neat if we somehow convinced John Morgan to come on and just talk to us and provide some guidance and advice? So I reached out to him the first time, and he didn't reply naturally. But I followed up with him and I changed the subject line. I remember I changed the subject line to something he and I had talked about. I had mentioned, for example, somehow the conversation of pressure came up during that cocktail party. And I remembered John Morgan. He's used the, like, a diamond analogy one way or another, like a handful of diamonds, and somebody comes and hits it out of your hand for the value of a personal injury case. And so I mentioned to him, well, we were talking about pressure. So I said, well, pressure is what turns coal into diamonds. And that really kind of caught his attention. And so I put that as the subject line. And I followed up with him. And that was the thing that changed it. He actually agreed to be on the podcast and did a fun podcast together with some. Some great advice, because it's always nice to see and hear from somebody who's been there and done that. What kind of things they've accomplished.

A (17:22)

Yeah. And so I'm right there with you for John and transparency for the listeners. We don't work with Morgan and Morgan. I just, I think anyone that's in this space and just the size and breadth, they're always on the forefront in terms of their marketing and what they're doing. But also I just. At least for me. And maybe he's always had this, but he's gotten to the space where like, he just has no filter and doesn't care. There's something about that that's, I don't know that makes you trust him. Just because there's no filter. Like, you know, I've got the. You can't teach hunger or something like that.

B (17:53)

You can't teach hungry, right? Yeah, I mean, he's. Yeah, he just, he comes off as a straight shooter in terms of just. He says whatever's on his mind and however you feel about it. However you feel about it. But, you know, and there's a lot of great visionaries in our space too. What was interesting was like a big, big name in the personal injury space is Nick Rowley. So I remember as a younger lawyer, I had my first trial coming up and somebody at his firm invited me to. They would do these focus groups. And so they had their own little office that they had bought. It's got a one way mirror. And so they do jury focus groups for an upcoming trial, which was incredible to see how they think through things. And he's just a nice guy, so he'd ask everybody questions and that kind of stuff, but he had no idea who I was. And what was interesting was at a certain point he was working on his map and he says something like, hey, I've got this issue on my Mac. Does anybody know how to fix it? And so I was like, nick, I'll fix it for you. But if I fix it for you, can you help me with my opening and closing statements? It was my first trial. He looks at me, he just stares me dead in the eyes for 5, 10 seconds and then he just laughs and he's like, all right, deal. So I actually had no idea how to use a Mac. And so I didn't even know how to fix what he was talking about. But I had my phone with me. So I just went ahead and googled it. Like, how do I fix this? How do I do this? And then I just worked it through and I fixed it for him. And true to his word, he's like, all right, kid, record your opening and your closing. Send it to me. So I sent him the videos and he hopped on a call with me and he walked me through it. He's like, here's what you're doing. Well, I think this is good. And here's where I think you can improve on. So I think there's a lot of people in this space who are willing to give back and just help out. I felt that kind of welcoming throughout the personal injury space. It's a great space and there's a lot of great lawyers out there.

A (19:36)

That's incredible. I got lucky. Bob Simon invited me out to an event. It was at Nick Raleigh's place in Big sky, which is ridiculous, like, aspirational type house. But I thought it was funny. They had bear spray everywhere, and they had to give the warning that the bad bears that they find in town, they drop them off like a mile away from his house. And Jack Newton was out there from Cleo, and he was getting ready to go for a rent run. And I'm like, jack, you better grab the bear spray like legit Prague. This has been amazing. I really enjoy speaking with you, you know, for our audience. Listening has, you know, questions, employment questions in California, you know, business questions. Has a PI case. How can they reach out to you and get in touch?

B (20:15)

Yeah. So my email is paraglawpla.com so p a r a g@lawpla.com or check me out on Instagram or Facebook. Parag Amin esq. So P A R a G E S Q. And my website is www.lawpla.com.

C (20:34)

If you take one thing away, it's this. Trust opens doors. Talent keeps it open. And the firms that master both are the ones that rise to the top 3D your practice or scale. The personal injury work you've already started. Don't just wait for growth to happen. Make the move. If you want me in your corner, head of rankings IO, we'll help you capture territory and defend it. Until next time, keep pushing forward.