← Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
359. Growth Levers for PI Firms: Get Maximum Value Out of Every Case w/ Ramin Montakab
00:16:18
The Simple Shifts That Add Thousands to Every Settlement
Loading summary
Transcript35 lines
- [00:03]
A
Most personal injury lawyers leave money on the table. But the truth is, there are five big levers you can pull to get maximum case value. First, your brand has to mean something. Second, your marketing channels can't work in silos. Third, you need airtight audits so no detail slips through the cracks. Fourth, your team has to be aligned. And finally, you got to think in terms of compounding value. Even five grand more per case adds up the millions over time.
- [00:28]
B
There's no magic bullets like, if you care, people will tell that you care and that they're going to tell their friends and family about you.
- [00:34]
A
Ramin Monticab. He went solo in 2020 and has already recovered over $10 million for his clients. This is Personal Injury Mastermind, powered by Rankings IO. I'm Chris Dreyer.
- [00:46]
B
That's all there really is to it.
- [00:48]
A
Today he explains the five ways to maximize case value in any PI niche. For Ramin, this work is deeply personal. Let's go.
- [00:56]
B
My son has autism. This is something I care very deeply about. Just a week or two ago, one of the things that my firm is really focusing on, trying to build out is helping out the autism community, advocating for persons with autism who get injured.
- [01:10]
A
So is this a focus for the practice you think, moving forward, like kind of a niche within the niche for injury?
- [01:16]
B
Yeah, I would say so. We're doing a lot with community outreach and letting parents know what their rights are. So many of these families are already overwhelmed with all the needs that these children have.
- [01:27]
A
So before we get in the weeds, before we get into the tactics, what's a recent win?
- [01:31]
B
So there was a case that the mom called me, said, door closed. My kid's finger was in the door. Through my advocacy and through hard work, we were able to resolve the case for $350,000. And the mediator, who's a very well noted mediator, said, I've never seen a result like this on a case. And I think the difference was, and I'm in all honesty, the first call I had with the defense attorney, I said, if you think you're going to downplay this case because of his condition, because of his future, that's not something that's going to go well with the jury. So I think, you know, the result really spoke for itself.
- [02:01]
A
That's incredible. That's incredible that this didn't take you serious. And they're like, okay, whatever. And so that's amazing. Congrats.
- [02:10]
B
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
- [02:12]
A
So tell me about the tipping point. What was the tipping point before you Started your own practice?
- [02:15]
B
I was at Goldman Sachs. I was advising billionaires and it just wasn't fulfilling. I always liked personal injury. So my first two years I did insurance defense and I was always inspired by these really good plaintiffs attorneys. The truth is you get brainwashed when you do insurance defense. So when I was doing that, it was actually a pretty crazy story that I decided to start my own firm. My first year I did do business litigation. Two months after I started my firm. Covid happened. Courts were closed, so my job pretty much went away because no in person depositions. I started a channel on. It was kind of like a live podcast thing. It was called Clubhouse. And just by complete happen chance, Arash Kumalpur is a very well known trial attorney here in California. I added him to the room. I just had a conversation with him with the intention of I want to get into PI. I want to learn from some of the best trial attorneys. I started asking him questions that resonated with people and within a few weeks someone from Brian Panish's office reached out to me, said, hey, we want you to interview Panitch. Someone from Morgan and Morgan reached out to me, hey, we want you to interview. And I had a following of thousands of people a week just listening to these live shows. So that's how the impetus for, that's how the firm blew up essentially is Arash gave me one of my first cases. I did a good job on that case. That client ended up referring me for people and the firm started growing from there.
- [03:30]
A
Normally I get in, you know, as a marketer, I'll get out and get out on the new channel, whether it's TikTok or what have you. But I didn't get in on Clubhouse. And that's amazing that you built that community, those, those relationships with these other attorneys to get the referrals. What's your thoughts about marketing and just attracting leads today? I know you mentioned the community involvement, but just what else? And just your overall thoughts for legion.
- [03:50]
B
So in 2020, I was one of the first people who was posting on Instagram, posting on social media. People were calling me the TikTok lawyer. I was getting a lot of leads just through being on Instagram and talking on Clubhouse. That's changed. I mean I stopped, you know, I had a full time guy working with me making videos and we're pushing out these Instagram ads and just the ROI wasn't there for us anymore. So I think it has changed. I do feel like unless you have a very, very large bucket, you're Setting aside for marketing, I do think that grassroots is still the best way to go. So my social media is just basically to keep top of mind with my primary network, and they're referring me to their secondary and third, you know, somebody, if they hear accident, they think of me. So I'm really targeting those people. I'm not going for millions of people.
- [04:37]
A
I've been in digital marketing for over a decade, and I can tell you this, referrals matter, but for referrals to work, you need to stay top of mind. Your touchpoints need to work together to reinforce your brand. That's where social media plays its part. Pair it with website that ranks SEO, that compounds over time and steady stream of Google and Yelp reviews. You've got real social proof and a brand that clients trust before they ever pick up the phone. Ramin nailed it with his Robin Hood positioning. A brand that makes people instantly understand who he fights for and why they should remember his name.
- [05:08]
B
I'm a person who likes fighting for the underdog. A lot of times people think my name is Robin. And I think it's something that. It's funny when I go to events, a lot of times people will come to like, hey, you're Robin from Instagram. They think my name is Robin because they just think it's Robinhood.
- [05:22]
A
It's perfect for this, you know, because there's such a negative connotation for injury attorneys. It's like they get a bad rap, but it's typically they're for the victim and they're. They're getting them more and they're getting them help. And you've seen it firsthand. And on the intake side, though, how do you think about converting the leads? The sales side, you know, is it dedicated intake team? Is it third party? Like, how do you. How do you approach that side?
- [05:45]
B
We do have a dedicated intake team at the office. And then for off hours, we have a call set service. But the call center, I tell them, if it's catastrophic case, this is my cell phone. Call me, I want to speak with them. People on my team who do intakes, a lot of them come from service backgrounds. One of them works at Disneyland. Other people work in social services. So those are the type of people that have that empathy. So the first question I want you to ask is, how are you doing? I'm so sorry you went through this. I don't want to be like, when was the data loss and how bad was your property damage? Right. So intake at the end of the day, especially the volume that we have, which is not that high. Spending the time has been a game changer for us. A lot of people say I've called two other firms, just want to get a second opinion. And that empathy has really caused our conversion rates to go up. I'd spend a lot of time even on cases I couldn't help people and say I'll try to get help for you after spending time with them. Say, hey, was information I gave you helpful? Well if you want, reciprocate, if you want to be helpful. If you leave me a Google review, that'd be super helpful. So even cases I wasn't taking, I was ended up getting Google reviews that really kind of helped with the gmb.
- [06:46]
A
Yeah, I think that's super smart. I think there's just so many milestones and so many touch points. You know, whether it's the initial touch point from the prospecting or the onboarding or what have you, I think that's an amazing opportunity to get those reviews which are so important. Let's talk Lauren. You know you've got six locations, you know, multiple attorneys, you handle complex PI, you know, across these six offices. You know what, what does the structure look like? How do you approach, you know, the delivery of the op side?
- [07:13]
B
So we have two people who have backgrounds in medicine. So those people are overseeing the case managers, the intake. So they're double checking everything, making sure if we did a good job with the medical side of the intake and then they're doing another follow up call, usually about a month in for another medical intake. If it's a tbi, we use the Riverbend test, getting that imaging soon to show the progression and then beginning it again in a year. See if there's any brain matter decrease over that year. Those are things we can do in PI an insurance company would never authorize. And it's so important.
- [07:50]
A
You actually go to your clients homes to build these emotional narratives. So why is that a non negotiable for you?
- [07:57]
B
While you learn at people's homes there's so many little things you pick up. I see the ramps that are set up, I see the shower. They never mentioned that to me. They never mentioned all the modifications that are at home. Well guess what, those are damages you can get reimbursed for those that just being there for an hour increase the value of the case by a hundred thousand dollars. So it's such a game changer. Chris, on the autism cases, you know, going to these people's homes, seeing how much they've changed their lives, you Know, seeing what their home looks like, you know, and realizing, you know, 10, 20, 30, maybe $50,000, once you're at a. At a caseload where that volume, where that number doesn't make a difference to your firm. But when you go to their home, you realize, okay, this is enough money to make a significant material impact in their lives.
- [08:36]
A
Let's zero in on the TBI Brett Turnbull on recently, and he was talking about the wearables. So talk to me about those cases, because it's not often that we get someone with that expertise.
- [08:47]
B
A physician friend of mine called me saying, hey, one of my friends is a physician. He was in a small collision, but I've noticed big changes in him. Is there something you can do to help him? I went to his house. I saw the drastic changes in his life. I asked his mom, I asked his sister, I asked his colleagues, what are the behavioral changes you've seen? What are the changes in his. Throughout his day? What are some hobbies? Because he wasn't able to verbalize a lot of that stuff, he felt like, no, you know, I'm okay. His coworker who introduced us, he told me, this guy is now working 12 hours a day instead of 8 hours a day because he can't get his work done anymore. And then once you know that that's actually happening, and then you want to go in on the medicine, getting their brain MRIs, ideally twice, to show the change over time. You know, a lot of people like neuropsych testing, typically I don't really do anything like that until right before litigation. But, yeah, getting them, you know, making sure you're tell how important therapy is and, you know, having a journal writing down the changes that you're having, all that stuff is very important.
- [09:39]
A
I think one of the things that I'm appreciating is just how, like, how detailed you are and like, how thorough in regards to the investigation, the questions and the discovery, you know, and everything that you're talking about. What are the systems, the checklist? Is it the Kaizen? Is it the. You know, the. I believe they have these, like, circle groups for education. Talk to me about that model.
- [09:59]
B
Yeah, we have checklists. We do case audits. Every single week. We have an audit meeting. Any case question that they have another attorney, myself, the case manager who's in contact with them and the person who did the audit of the medical records were speaking about the cases. So when I tell people, a number of people that are on my team compared to the cases, you're like, that's crazy. You're so overstaffed. At my office, there's one case manager for every 150 cases. The reality is, you know, I'd rather overspend and make sure that we have the best team possible because that's what drives the values. And I'd rather have fewer cases with bigger results.
- [10:37]
A
When you got the staff to really dig into a case, the numbers start to move. Think about it. If you put just five grand more into every file, what would that do to your bottom line? What would that mean for your clients you serve? But it only works if you got the right systems to back it up. Constant check ins, regular alignment. That's where Ramin's approach comes in. Here's how he makes it work. For maximum impact.
- [10:58]
B
Our core values is not some document that's sitting on a shelf somewhere. On Mondays when we have like a team meeting, like a pep talk, I mention, you know, I want to commend, for example, Emma, Sarah. She lived up to the core value of communication and this is what she did. So you're constantly reinforcing those behaviors up. These are core values and we're recognizing people who are matching up to those core values. You just ask people, hey, if somebody did an outstanding job this week, let me know what it was. I get a slack message and then I mention it. So I do that on Monday and now on a Friday is either a training session or a lot of times we have a case right now that's in litigation set for trial in September. This is a case in the beginning, they'd call three other firms. Everyone passed on the case. We sent a demand pre litigation, they offered $7,000. Now a month out from trial, we're looking at multiple seven figures for the case. So reinforcing what we're doing, right, the good results we're getting. So on Friday, so as a wrap up meeting, those are some things I like to mention the team to make sure that everyone's on the same page. Another thing is that most of my team, I only have three people that come into the office. Everyone's remote. And that's been helpful with bringing on top talent. Building a culture is difficult. So if it wasn't for the constant communication, the team, all hands, team meetings, I don't think we would have the culture that we do.
- [12:15]
A
We're an entirely remote company. We've got a kudos Slack channel. And actually I think it's significantly better when you, you know, say it to him like at least virtually on a, you know, video as opposed to just send a slack message. The attention to detail on the intake, which lends itself to the, you know, the rapport building, the really paying attention, I think because in order to truly care about the person, you have to listen to them. And it's not just they say something, check it off, so to speak. This has been a ton of fun. What's plans that you have? What's the future look like?
- [12:45]
B
Yeah, it's been a lot of growth. The last four years, I've been doing PI. Like last year we hired 25 people. I just want to make sure everything is running absolutely as smoothly. I think I want to organically grow smaller. I would like to acquire, I think my goal is to acquire a firm, some personal injury attorney who's older, who's kind of looking to phase out, to kind of grow like that with a team that already the culture is built in. So that's what I'm hoping for.
- [13:09]
A
Final question. Where can our audience go to connect with you and learn more?
- [13:12]
B
Instagram. Raminhood r a m I n h o o d rtmlawfirm.com is my website. And if you Google, you know, I mean Montague or RTM Law, you'll find.
- [13:23]
A
Me social SEO reviews. Every touch point. Working together keeps you top of mind. Do the little things right over and over, and the compounding effect will put you miles ahead of the competition. I'm Chris Dreyer. This is personal injured Mastermind. Catch you next time. I'm out. Ra.