369. Why Your Clients Call So Much and How To Fix It w/ Manny Griffiths, Hona

Summary

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Episode Overview

Episode Title: 369. Why Your Clients Call So Much and How To Fix It
Podcast: Personal Injury Mastermind
Host: Chris Dreyer (Rankings.io)
Guest: Manny Griffiths, Co-Founder and CEO of Hona
Release Date: December 2, 2025

This episode dives into why personal injury law clients have high communication expectations and how law firms can address these demands through better technology and systems. Chris Dreyer interviews Manny Griffiths about building Hona, a communication tool inspired by consumer-grade package and food tracking apps, now adapted to create transparency, engagement, and efficiency for legal clients and firms alike. The conversation unpacks how better client updates, pain journaling, and unified tech interfaces can directly improve client satisfaction—and case value.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Communication Expectation Shift (00:25 – 03:15)

• Modern Consumers Are Trained By Tech:
  Clients are used to Fortune 500-level experiences—think tracking an Uber or Domino’s pizza, with real-time updates and convenience.

  "With good tech, your clients track packages, flights and food. Their personal injury case should be the same." – Chris Dreyer [00:34]

• The Pain of Outdated Client Experience:
  Law firm clients now expect constant updates, but most firms only send a welcome letter—which is no longer enough.
  Manny recounts his own experience when his fiancée got into an accident, explaining how he quickly turned into the “status update” client.

  “I was on the phone asking for status updates and it like clicked, okay, this is why law firms are asking for that tool.” – Manny Griffiths [01:44]

• Who Suffers Most:
  It’s the case managers—not attorneys—who are most impacted by inefficient communication, overwhelmed by redundant status calls that break workflow.

The Cost of Irregular Updates & The Case for Automation (03:16 – 04:55)

• Irregular Updates Lead to Client Anxiety:
  If clients don't hear from their firm, they assume the worst, leading to more calls, wasted staff time, and operational inefficiency.

  "Every time a client wonders what has happened with their case, your team pays for it." – Chris Dreyer [03:31]

• Missed Data Hurts Settlements:
  Failure to consistently track the client experience—especially during medical treatment—means missed details that could boost non-economic damages in demand letters.

  “Treatment is where the story of pain, impact and disruption is actually happening. If no one is collecting that information in a structured way, you lose the details that drive non economic damages.” – Chris Dreyer [03:31]

Hona’s Solution—Structured Pain Journaling & Engagement (04:56 – 06:00)

• Introducing Pain Journaling:
  Hona builds in automated, weekly questionnaires so clients can record pain and life disruptions. This streamlines data collection for stronger settlements and keeps clients actively engaged.

  “They’re collecting all this information week after week … and you can put that directly in your demand letter and just really boost the non economic damages request.” – Manny Griffiths [05:31]

• Dual Benefits:

  • Clients feel involved and cared for.
  • Firms have richer documentation for claims.

Hona vs. Traditional Case Management (06:01 – 07:13)

• Why Not Just Use Existing CRMs or CMSs:

  • Hona is not a replacement for firms’ internal systems (like Clio or Salesforce), but an external-facing communication layer, deeply integrated but client-first.

  “The case management software is where you and your team are collaborating on the case. It’s the internal structure. HONA is like the communication layer that’s external facing.” – Manny Griffiths [06:00]

• Automation Brings Consistency:

  • Automated “drip” sequences (welcome letters, updates) ensure every client gets the same experience, every time—regardless of busy staff.

The Power of “Non-Update Updates” (07:14 – 08:00)

• Easing Client Anxiety with Proactive Communications:

  • Even if nothing new has happened, automated texts can reassure clients that their case is still in process.

  "People want to know that something hasn’t happened, which is so funny. ... [We] call it the non-update update.” – Manny Griffiths [06:55]

• Example:

  • Firms can set a rule: "If nothing happens in 10 days, send a text: 'Hey, still working on things. We'll be in touch soon.'"

Preferred Communication Channels (08:01 – 08:59)

• Text Is King:

  • Hona primarily leverages SMS for maximum ease and engagement. Clients receive a text with a link to updates from the same number for seamless tracking.

  “It’s so easy … people are just so used to texting.” – Manny Griffiths [08:05]

• No Download Barrier:

  • While a mobile app exists, most clients just click a link and view updates in their browser.

Consistency in Contact: The Unified Phone Number (09:00 – 10:36)

• Unified Number Throughout the Journey:

  • Hona’s strategy: all communications—website chat, case updates, texts—come from a single phone number, reducing confusion from multiple “random” numbers.

  “A client will receive several phone numbers throughout the whole customer journey ... we’re trying to consolidate and bring those into one phone number.” – Manny Griffiths [09:16]

• Intake Tool:

  • Hona uses an engaging website intake bot that collects info, converts browsers into leads, and continues the relationship through the same number if they become a client.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People get anxious like when they haven’t heard something ... people want to know that something hasn’t happened, which is so funny.” – Manny Griffiths [06:55]
• “When you don’t track the client’s experience as it unfolds, you leave money on the table.” – Chris Dreyer [03:31]
• “Firms have 50 pain journals with all this stuff that they’ve missed ... you can put that directly in your demand letter and just really boost the non economic damages request.” – Manny Griffiths [05:31]
• “...we’re trying to consolidate and bring those into one phone number. So it’s, you know, consistency throughout the whole process.” – Manny Griffiths [09:16]
• “Text is such a seamless way to deliver these updates, so clients always feel engaged—without app fatigue.” – Manny Griffiths [08:05]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:25 – The rise of client communication expectations
• 01:44 – Origins of Hona: Manny’s real-life client experience
• 03:31 – How irregular updates kill efficiency and value
• 05:31 – How pain journals drive stronger settlements
• 06:00 – Hona as an external communication layer
• 06:55 – The importance of “non-update updates”
• 08:05 – Why text is the channel of choice
• 09:16 – Value of a unified phone number for clients

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Modern law firm clients expect real-time, proactive updates similar to their experiences with food delivery or ridesharing apps.
• Frequent, structured client communication:
  • Reduces unnecessary interruption for staff
  • Raises overall client satisfaction and trust
  • Unlocks data—like pain journals—that tangibly strengthen cases
• Automation and consistency, especially with SMS updates and one persistent contact number, are simple but transformative improvements any PI firm can deploy.
• Tools like Hona are not competitors to internal case management or CRM systems—they’re essential client-facing companions in an increasingly demanding legal marketplace.

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For PI professionals looking to reduce client interruption, improve outcomes, and deliver experiences clients now expect, the systems and ideas discussed in this episode provide a modern framework to transform client communications and, ultimately, case results.

Transcript

[A]

Most agencies sell promises. Rankings delivers proof. We've taken firms from invisible to number one in the toughest PI markets in the country. And while others are still scrambling to figure out ChatGPT, we're already optimizing for AI search. So your firm is the first answer clients see. Lead the pack, don't get left behind. Visit Rankings IO for aio, also known as AI Search, and start dominating search today.

[B]

Consumers expect a lot of communication today because they have been treated so well from Fortune 500 companies.

[A]

With good tech, your clients track packages, flights and food. Their personal injury case should be the same.

[B]

One of the terrible things about client experience in this space is.

[A]

Welcome to Personal Injury Mastermind. Powered by Rankings IO. I'm Chris Dreyer. If you want happier clients, stronger demands and fewer operational fires, you're in the right place.

[B]

Automate the redundant to empower the personal.

[A]

Today I am talking with Manny Griffiths, co founder and CEO of hona. His team built the closest thing to the domino style track hacker for personal injury cases and firms using it are seeing fewer client interruptions and stronger non economic damages. Let's get into it.

[B]

I'm Manny Griffiths. I'm co founder and CEO of hona. I've been in the legal tech space for nine years, but I was thinking about going to law school. And so my friend was working for a case management software company out of Utah and he was like, well, if you, if you want to get into legal, you should come work in tech for a little bit and like learn the industry. Ken was like, oh, I actually really love the tech side. I also love legal, but I think I'm going to stick around here.

[A]

Let's bring it up to date.

[C]

Like what was the reasoning for the founding of H?

[A]

You just see this dearth, this poor.

[C]

Communication that was just driving you nuts. Tell me the story of how it came about.

[B]

I actually had customers ask me for better communication. They asked for like a Domino's pizza tracker for their cases. And so I kind of had that in the back of my head, like, why do clients want this? And then my wife, she was my fiance at the time, she got in a car accident and so we hired a personal injury firm and pretty soon I was on the phone asking for status updates and it like clicked, okay, this is why law firms are asking for that tool. Consumers like, expect a lot of communication today because they have been treated so well from Fortune 500 companies with good tech. So like you pull up your Uber app and you see exactly where the car is. It's texting you back and forth, you know what vehicle it is, you know the license plate, you have a code when you get in. So you get in the car and they're like, what's the code? So people are used to this kind of tech and so they'll go have a service like a personal injury case. Their expectations have been raised. And so what happens is someone will get into a case or they'll, they'll sign up with a law firm and then they're like, why don't I know everything about the case? Why don't I know who I'm working with, what the next steps are, how it works, how long this is going to take. A thing from like the past 10 years is like sending them a welcome letter that explains this, but it's just not enough today. And so what happens is these clients will call in and they'll ask all these questions because they're scraping and they're reaching to get that information. So the people that feel the most pain at the firm is not the attorneys usually, it's usually the case manager because they're getting all these calls and it's 20 minutes here, 15 minutes there, and they're struggling to get their work done. And it's not that they don't want to talk to the client, cause that's super important, but it's that there's this burden that people want more.

[A]

Every time a client wonders what has happened with their case, your team pays for it. When updates are irregular, clients assume the case is stalled and the team is forced into constant catch up. That cycle burns bandwidth and kills momentum. The bigger problem is what you miss. Treatment is where the story of pain, impact and disruption is actually happening. If no one is collecting that information in a structured way, you lose the details that drive non economic damages. Those details are the difference between a basic offer and a strong settlement. When you don't track the client's experience as it unfolds, you leave money on the table.

[B]

During the treatment phase, there's a lot of information that attorneys never collect because a lot of times they're just like, I'll let them get treatment, I'll follow up every few weeks to make sure they're getting treatment. But there's this huge component of non economic damages that really boost settlement values and can like increase immediately what you're demanding for your case that they just never hear about. So something in our tool that is popular is, they're calling it pain journaling. It's essentially a questionnaire that you send and you can set it up recurring. Most of our firms do it once a week. They'll send it on like a Sunday night so all their clients in treatment will get this form. And it's like, hey, how's your pain been this week? What have you missed? Is there something that you haven't been able to do because of your injury? Like do you play piano? And you haven't been able to because your wrist hurts or did you miss a family function? And so they're collecting all this information week after week, call it 20 weeks or however long it is, like 50 weeks where they're doing treatment and now Your firm has 50 pain journals with all this stuff that they've missed. And you can put that directly in your demand letter and just really boost the non economic damages request and so or demand I should say. But like that is huge for firms and it's something that they're just not collecting. So it's cool for two reasons. One, it's engaging your client. They feel like they're involved with the case. And two, they're collecting invaluable information so that they can demand more for their case. So that has been like, is really revolutionizing what's happening with personal injury cases. Foreign.

[C]

So let's talk about hona. Why not just use Clio, grow lead docket, salesforce, whatever. Where are the deficiencies and why don't the CRMs just add more, you know, client relationship components to their CRMs?

[B]

So like the way that we view it is the case management software is like where you and your team are collaborating on the case. It's the internal structure. HONA is like the communication layer that's external facing. So like we're really tight knit with the case management software.

[C]

The other thing that you mentioned that I think is a cool feature is the automated drip campaign perspective. So like you know, you come in and you could set it up however you want. I guess, I guess you have some defaults but like the welcome letter and those, those things that you, that are repeatable that you mentioned. It makes me think of, you know, when you go to the barber and you get a few good haircuts and then you get a bad one, right. You may not go to that barber again. So like some attorneys may be following the checklist manifesto and, and doing this but then some remember and they just don't do it. I think the automation creates that consistency of experience that that's nice too.

[B]

People get anxious like when they haven't heard something and a lot of times as a firm you're kind of like, well, you almost get defensive when someone calls you because you're like, well nothing's happened, like why would I talk to you? But it's like people want to know that something hasn't happened, which is so funny.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But like that's how good technology and services are in this day and age that like you know when there isn't anything. So we call it like that's something that our tool does is the non update. Update is you could set up like, hey, if Nothing's happened in 10 business days, let's shoot them this text that says, hey, still working on things. We haven't heard back from this person but we'll be in touch soon. And when a customer gets that text message or a push notification on their phone, it just like eases their anxiety. They're like, oh, okay. And then they're willing to wait another 10 or 14 days. Like so that helps kind of keep people appeased, I guess as they're going through their case.

[C]

Nowadays you've got WhatsApp and Telegram and Slack and text and phone and email. Like what are the mediums that you communicate on with hona.

[B]

Yeah. So our core product, which is like this robust portal that you know, communicates through the case, is actually built on text message based and our theory behind that is that people have become so accustomed to text messages. When a trigger happens, like a task is complete or you change the phase from two to three or whatever it is, they'll get a text message with a link and they click the link and it goes into just a web browser like that. It's so, it's so easy. We also have an app like in the iOS and Android store that someone could get if they want. But we find that people are just so used to texting and so that's a really easy way they save the firm contact. Hey, you're working with, you know, x law firm and they click it and they're back in the portal learning about the case, watching videos, et cetera, on what's happening. So that's kind of the mode that it comes through.

[A]

Clients track everything they buy. They expect the same experience when they reach out to a firm. Intake is where you win or lose the first impression. This is why tools like these matter. They make the process engaging, predictable and transparent. From the very first click.

[B]

We release tools that go into this intake sphere. One of them is a really cool website intake bot that's really engaging. It pulls people in. It uses video and like logic forms to like pull people in and like make sure that they're converting. So like with Rankings IO, you're all about getting people more leads to their website and that's like a great business. Super needed. We want to convert those leads at the highest clip possible. It's essentially a form fill that makes it kind of seem like a chat. If someone fills out the form on the chat, it will text you with a phone number. Now if you sign up with that firm, then they'll start using HONA during the case process. It's going to be from the same phone number. One of the terrible things about client experience in this space is that a client will receive several phone numbers throughout the whole customer journey. So they'll get one at intake, they'll get one at case, then they'll get another text message from a different software tool they use. So like we're trying to consolidate and bring those into one phone number. So it's, you know, consistency throughout the whole process.

[C]

Got it, got it. That's interesting. And yeah, because you got all the call Rails and the different, you know, trackers and swaps and dynamic phone numbers and I think from a client perspective though, it would be better if they had the one they like you said plug it into their phone.

[B]

Absolutely. That's what we're going for is like consistency throughout the whole journey.

[A]

Clients expect visibility, they expect real time updates and, and a clear look at what's happening in their case. And you deserve the same care for your marketing agency. That's where Rankings IO comes in. We're with you every step of the way to the top. I'm Chris Schreier, CEO of Rankings IO. Hit subscribe. So PIM delivers straight to your phone. I'll see you Thursday.