← Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
430. Purpose, Passion, then Profit: "All Gas, No Brakes" Personal Injury Litigation w/ Megan Kiefer
00:28:42
Fierce litigator Megan Kiefer reveals how pairing deep client purpose with an "all gas, no brakes" litigation strategy drives multi-million dollar verdicts.
Loading summary
Transcript38 lines
- [00:01]
A
Clients, like, I need to talk to you. It's important. I'm like, nervous. Like, what? It's important. Like, I'm like, is it about a case? She's like, no. It's like, oh, my God, what's going on? Right.
- [00:09]
B
In the highly competitive world of personal injury, we spend a lot of time talking about how to scale. We talk about hiring, optimizing operations, and acquiring more leads. But what happens when you intentionally pause that growth to focus on the human element?
- [00:21]
A
And she's like, you know, I know you're a minister because, well, I got ordained online to marry a few people. Like, no one's coming to me to counsel their souls. Like, why? What do you need? And she's like, you know, I have a grandbaby. And I'm like, of course. Because I've been getting photos of the grandbaby. And she's like, can you baptize?
- [00:37]
B
Wow.
- [00:38]
A
No, I can't baptize that baby.
- [00:42]
B
You can buy billboards and run digital ads to build visibility and trust at scale, but that kind of profound personal connection has to be earned.
- [00:49]
A
That I would even be asked to baptize a baby is what this is all about for me. Right.
- [00:55]
B
Today, we're going to talk about who does the intake calls and the role of AI and litigation. Litigation strategies. But we're also going to talk about something that gets overlooked in the legal space. How passion creates purpose and why that's good for your heart and for your business.
- [01:08]
A
You shouldn't ask me to baptize your baby like I'm incompetent to baptize the baby.
- [01:18]
B
This is Personal Injury Mastermind. I'm Chris dreier, founder and CEO of Rankings IO, the elite performance marketing agency for personal injury law firms. Today we're speaking with Megan Kiefer from Kiefer and Kiefer in New Orleans. We talk about why her attorneys still handle their own intake calls, how staying small but mighty leads to massive trial verdicts, and how discovering your underlying purpose can ultimately transform your practice. Let's get into it. You've collected over $100 million for your clients, but there's a recent win that's really firing you up. So. So tell me all about it.
- [01:51]
A
Yeah, I mean, so recently, I think last month, I represented a guy who was at the time where a trial was 82 years old. He didn't have any future recommendations for any medical procedures he needed. He was involved in a really tragic work accident. And you're probably like, well, how long ago was a work accident? He's 82 years old, but he was a special guy, right? So he worked at Winn Dixie. His name was Tony. And at 79 years old, he had retired from working at Winn Dixie in the meat department for decades, you know, and he got lonely. He stopped working and was like, if I stop working, I'm going to die. All my friends are at Winn Dixie. My community's at Winn Dixie. I want to go back to work. So he did something that most people dream of never doing, and he went back to work. And, you know, a month later he's involved in this tragic accident where a gate falls on him and he has an emergency terrible surgery. And now he's out of work for the rest of his life. But naturally have a dispute about a lot of things. Who is responsible and the value of the pain and suffering of someone that's 82. And of course, I have a disagreement about what the case is really about a lot of times with, with defense attorneys. And I think probably that was the centrifuge of a little bit of our disagreement, Right. So my thoughts are like, this case is about what is the value of changing someone's life, right? What is the value of never being able to work again when that's the thing that was keeping you going, Right? And at the end of the day for me, you know, and what I argue to the jury in closing is like, this is, this case was about taking away someone's icky guy, which is a concept that people know about, that I've thought about, I've read about, but I had never really thought that I'd be talking to a jury about. And so we had a favorable result. The jury understood that just because you're 82 years old doesn't mean you suffer in any less of a way about the future, about your life. And to some extent, when you're in the sunset years of your life, every moment is even more valuable than. Than mine. And yeah, I mean, they awarded him multi millions of dollars. And I was just so honored to be able to tell a story.
- [03:55]
B
You opened the door there so that you can die.
- [03:57]
A
To have a tendency to open the
- [03:59]
B
door, we gotta define that, you know, on purpose. And I read the Man's Search for Meaning a couple years ago. Victor Frankl, another great book about purpose. I saw this with my dad too. My dad retired, he was a mail carrier, worked his tail off, has that pension. But then he just kind of lost his purpose. And like he had that routine and going in and it got kind of Unhealthy. He got him a little dog and, and that kind of brought him back to life, so to speak. And we're having a lot of fun. But you see this, right? And then the Winn Dixie individual. So talk to me about ikigai.
- [04:33]
A
Yeah, so ikigai, I guess is did. I hate to be the one talking about it, but you know what it is, is really a Japanese concept of that could really be distilled down to the purpose for being. They did a study, they went to a bunch of blue zones across the world. And a blue zone is basically a place where people are disproportionately living longer, over a hundred years old. And they like, hey, what's why. Why are they living longer than everywhere else? You know, and one of those zones is Okinawa, Japan. And they, they studied that and what they found, I mean, this is of course a nutshell of a very long, complicated study in a book, if you want to read it. But that the Okinawans are living a lot longer than people across the world. I mean, they're eating better, full disclos, you know, but because they, they really do have this profound sense of icky guy, which is the reason for being the purpose for getting up every single day and doing whatever you're doing. And that they've isolated some things they do, like organic farming, just something as simple as that. And then the second thing, which is also, I mean being from New Orleans is this is my favorite part of the story maybe is that they have a profound sense of a why, which is essentially means community. And in New Orleans we're so big on community. I mean, the reason we're not living long in New Orleans is cause of our habits, you know, but, but if, if you erase those, you know, I think that we would fit squarely within this concept of moai, you know, and for my client, and it doesn't have to be. I mean, I think that every, everybody struggles in some sense of like, what is my purpose. But on the day to day, you don't feel like you're, you're thinking about it, you know, but it, it can, it doesn't have to be this like, oh, this insanely profound idea that you're affecting the whole world. Right? I mean, little corner of the world is, is affecting the whole world. And that's why I think the whole concept is so beautiful. And you know, that's the only way I was able to really explain my client's loss. Right? Is, is. Is what he lost was his moai. Whether his moai was at Winn Dixie or not. It might not be Mama Y. Right. Winn Dixie, by the way, is a grocery store that's no longer even here. But, you know, that's what his icky guy was. And what now, you know, through no fault or choice of his own, he has to find a new one. And at 82 years old, that's a crushing idea. So, you know, it's a unifying concept, and I wish we would spend a little more time thinking about it on a day to day.
- [06:52]
B
You know, Megan's story about Tony is a powerful reminder that attorneys are not just fighting for lost wages or medical bills. They're fighting to protect a person's purpose. You know, what you're doing in this work, it allows you to make informed decisions about your entire operational strategy. For Megan, she was able to take a hard look at her firm's growth and make some bold choices about how to handle marketing and client service. You've built this brand by saying small but mighty. You won a Vega Award for narrative driven design. A lot of your videos talk about big firm results, small firm attention. You know, talk to me about the other marketing initiatives and how you're thinking about this approach from a positioning perspective.
- [07:33]
A
Yeah. So there's like a little bit of a dichotomy in your question. Right. I'm a consumer of your podcast, and I'm a consumer of so many other people and their ideas. And a lot of conversations are always centered around scale, like, how do we scale, how do we get bigger, how do we get better, how do we, you know, get more and more and more? And what's, you know, at some point, I think my wife even asked me, like, where is your goal here? You keep, you know, you're somebody that always moves the target down the field. And she's right. But really what our core value, I suppose, of our firm is, is client service. Right. And how do you deliver the best results for somebody that came into your office that had a problem that was bigger than they could solve themselves? Okay. And if you look at them as an item on a spreadsheet, I don't think you can ever really give that service in the way that I want to give it. And quite frankly, as we've scaled, that wasn't necessarily the object of the goal. It was the byproduct of the service. You know, one of the things that I had to take a step back, you know, because we've been growing. I mean, we really just started redirecting our efforts to plaintiff litigation in the last five years, and we've had a steady 20% or more growth every single year without doing a lot of marketing. Right? And so the conclusion of that is because we're doing a good job, that's why we're getting these referrals. I mean, it's organic referrals, it's attorney referrals, it's client referrals, and it's because we're doing a good job. So my biggest issue, though, at the end of 2025 was to say, okay, how are we going to scale this? What are we going to do next? And I said, timeout. You know what I want to do? I want to go back to the basics. I want to go back to 2021, when I was the only lawyer doing plaintiff work, where I did every intake call, I did every case, I solved every problem. Nothing was too small for me to get involved in. I want to see exactly what I did and why people liked it so much. And I want to figure out, can we continue to implement that as we scale? And if we can't, then we won't scale. Because I don't hate to say it this way, I don't care about the growth. It's not a monetary adventure. It's the value that we get as a family, as a firm, and myself personally from the results we're getting from changing people's lives. So the moment we can't do that anymore, I'm not going to scale. But back to your question. What's marketing? So what is marketing? Right? I don't know. I mean, it's just in the last year, have I said, okay, how are we going to market ourselves? And when I had a brand meeting with a company that I hired, and they said, you know, what are you like, what do you see? I'm like, well, you're the brand people. Is this your job? I said, well, I would like to market myself to people who hate lawyers but need them, you know? And she's like, oh, interesting concept. You know, I mean, we're. I'm never going to want to or will compete with like, a Morris bard or Dudley DeBoer. I'm not going to drop $20 million to have people come in. We're never going to be a settlement mill. We want to care about the client. And so that's what I'm trying to market. And so we do that through our clients. We do that through not cheapening a brand that we've built over decades of period of time. But we also do that, I think, because we're fierce litigators, so. And we get really, really smashing results for our, in a way that if you went to another law firm, you're just not going to get. So I know there's this whole idea of like, oh, do you focus on pre suit or do you focus on letting. We focus on both, but we just staff up the people who are in maximize, you know, their, their skill sets to focus on both. And so we actually just sort of implemented in 2026 this like what I coined as an all gas, no brakes attempt to brand what we do in litigation and just, it's like a full bore, you know, we have a case, you don't want to settle it, let's go. There's a million different steps in that process because it's not complicated, you know, about maximizing the value for the client and that's what matters to them.
- [11:36]
B
Let's go. Let's go. That pumps me up. Talk to me about that. Like, do you have the attorney get involved early or is that the same attorney that may go try the case in court? A lot of the, the mill, so to speak, has the pre lift. They're just doing the widget right on the assembly line. It's the customer, not the client. Right. And then you have, you know, the through and through litigators. But it might get to just the litigation side. Like how do you think about working up a case?
- [12:02]
A
Yeah, so I do something that's probably unpopular in the like podcast and conference circuit, which is I don't use AI. We don't subcontract out things like intake. We don't heavily rely on, you know, offshore employees or we don't digitize everything. And we're attorney heavy, you know, so one thing we do is my attorneys, even my litigation attorneys do intake. I think it's very important when a, when a potential client calls that they are speaking to a lawyer and I audit the call still because I'm that type A. And there's so many instances where they say, are you a lawyer? And, and, and I think like, and I'm not. Again, this is not to chastise how anyone does anything, but I think if someone's calling a law firm, I'm going back to this premise. It's because they have a problem that is more difficult than they can solve and they've reached out to a lawyer. So from the beginning of a case, a lawyer's talking to them and now a byproduct of that is so that we're not signing up cases. That aren't good cases. I mean we can. And the lawyers that are working on those cases have litigated. Some of them don't litigate anymore, but they have all litigated, which I think is important, you know, in framing and the evidence that you're gathering. But so right at the beginning of the case, we're, we're not going to like, oh well, we'll just sit around and see if it's potentially a soft tissue injury or if there's a liability dispute like Fumble. Ruski, let's go. Get everything we need. You know, you need photographs, witness statements, you know, get a court reporter in here, take a statement under oath of a, you know, salient witness. If it's a trucking case, it immediately gets escalated to me and my litigation team, we hire experts right at the gate. I don't want to wait until we're in litigation to be like, oh, I wish we would have had some stuff, you know, on this big case. And we file suit early. Like this whole idea that attorneys have, oh, I don't know if I want to file suit, you know, because it's going to cost $1,000 and then I'm going to have to work. Well, it's like, you know what, like, you know what clients don't like, they don't like their shit sitting around for no reason. So if, like, if, if at like a night we have a 90 day touch point and if this case is not going to settle, get it to the litigation attorneys and let's follow suit and get it going. That's what I do on my cases. And so now that's what we're doing on all of our cases.
- [14:16]
B
Let's go. Let, let me ask you this. I'm not an attorney. I have no idea. Like, is that, that sounds uncommon in 90 days following that sounds really quick. What's like a generic no name firm? Like, is that comment like 90 days?
- [14:31]
A
Yeah, man. Well, I used to do defense work, right. That was how I was bred, if you will, unknowingly, unwittingly. And I would get lawsuits that were being fax filed the day before the deadline. So in Louisiana they just changed the deadline. You have two years. But look, there's some times where there's a legitimate reason to withhold filing of suit. And I'm not trying to say, oh, we just, you know, with blinders on, go like storm the Darthraki on every case, you know, like whatever. But like, what can you do without the power of a subpoena? Not a Lot you can ask people for things, you know, and I guess the, a little bit of a distinguishing factor for us is we handle complicated cases. And I don't know if that's somewhere somebody put like, oh, if there's something that's complicated as shit, give it to Megan. Right? You know, so when you have complicated cases, like, you need to get into the case, you need to ask questions, make sure you're targeting the right defendants, make sure you're getting in there and evidence isn't spoliated, make sure if there's video, you're capturing it, hiring experts, doing inspections, all of these things. So if you wait two years, which again, that's the question you asked me, that's the answer. They wait till the last minute, you might lose the ability to prosecute your case, number one. But I'm going back to my whole thing. What is that doing for the client? Because litigation takes a long time, you know, I mean, I'm able to get some of our big cases resolved in a year or so, even from like nose to tail. But that's if we're in a good jurisdiction that can give me a quick trial date. But clients don't understand litigation. Like, I have calls all the time where they're like, this case has been going on way too long. It's a year, you know, like a year in the life of 365 days is forever. So there's not going to be a situation where, oh, you held a suit for two years, you file suit, and then somebody's going to give you a million dollars. Like that doesn't. I mean, if that's what's going on for you, call me. I'd like to get your secret sauce right. You know, but you're going to have to litigate your way into multimillion dollar results, and that takes time. And all the while, what are you going to do? Just, you know, have the client be unsatisfied with the pacing of their case? You might as well start those questions early while their medical picture is developing. That's my approach. It's working out for me.
- [16:52]
B
Even up is a specialized proactive AI built for personal injury law firms. Personal injury is in their DNA. Visit evenuplaw.com to learn more. Making the decision to file lawsuits at 90 days and having trial attorneys answer intake calls is a massive operational commitment. But for Megan, that intense hands on approach is exactly the point. By prioritizing those deep personal connections from day one, her firm builds fierce client loyalty. That level of dedication leaves a lasting mark on the people they represent. And when those clients leave authentic reviews, it is one of the most powerful ways to grow your business. 732, last I checked, five star reviews. I'm going to read this one.
- [17:40]
A
Oh, wow.
- [17:41]
B
Hopefully I don't mess with the words it says. I can't say enough about Megan Kiefer and her team. They've gone above and beyond for me while working my case. They worked really hard to get me everything I deserved. And some their communication was on point. I'm truly grateful for them and going to miss them. If you need legal counsel, they are the team to go to. Thank you so much for everything.
- [18:03]
A
That's it.
- [18:03]
B
Doesn't that make you feel good?
- [18:04]
A
No, I mean, that's it. And I mean, the best part about that was you. You said her team, you know, because it's not just me anymore. When it was just me, it was like, hey, I could blame myself for everything. If the client wasn't happy, it was on me. And as we grow, I have to trust everybody else to deliver with, you know, the same messaging, the same service. And when I see reviews that talk about my team, I. I like them even better than the ones that attribute it to me. But I'll tell you this, and it's not bullshit, like, a lot of these firms is bullshit. It's messaging or whatever. We have relationships with our clients. We do, you know, and then obviously some of them, the relationships, why they become our clients. But after, like, our clients stopped by our firm to drop off shrimp, one of our clients stopped by after her case was over because she had bought a cow and wanted to share some of it with us, you know, and like, those relationships are so important. I miss them too. You know, we go to their events, like wedding invites, you know, like, it's. It's awesome. One of my. I'll tell you this, one of my clients, like, I need to talk to you. It's important. It's like, okay, the former client, right? She comes in. I'm like, nervous, like, what? It's important. Like, I'm like, is it about a case? She's like, no. It's like, oh, my God, what's going on? Right? Like, are you okay? Everything okay? And she's like, you know, I know you're a minister because, well, I got ordained online to marry a few people. Like, no one's coming to me to counsel their souls. So I was like, yeah, I'm a minister of, like, the Universal Life Church of the Internet or whatever. Like, why? What do you need and she's like, well, my daughter, you know. You know, I have a grandbaby now. I'm like, of course. Because I've been getting photos of the grandbaby, and she's like, can you baptize?
- [19:42]
B
Wow.
- [19:43]
A
No, I can't baptize that baby. But that's what I'm talking about, right? Like, that I would even be asked to baptize a baby is what this is all about for me, right? I mean, you shouldn't ask me to baptize your baby. Like, I'm incompetent to baptize a baby, and there's certainly a lot of people better shepherdize this baby than I. But, you know, I think that. Look, that this is something that's been instilled in, you know, and maybe it's because it's a. We call ourselves a generational firm. You know, I get people that come in that, like, knew my grandfather, and they want to talk about him. And I didn't know him because he. He passed when I was two, you know, so, like, some of their grandkids and kids, like, those are still our clients. And so, like, these are, you know, deep roots, you know? So you talk about marketing, you talk about scale, and to me, I'm. We're scaling because families are growing, and. And I never want to get to a place where I don't know everybody. And, I mean, maybe I will. And, you know, it's going to be kind of a sad day. It's. You know, it's. It's kind of oxymoronic in that way. But I like where we're at. I mean. I mean, like, at the end of the day, this is my icky guy. Right? You know, it's like, there's the question of, oh, like, what case do you have to hit to retire? And it's like, there's no. I don't have this case. Like, oh, if I hit this case, I'm. I'm gonna go on a yacht or something and find Jeff Bezos and become friends like this. That's not. Like, I think I would die. I'd be one of those people that died. You know, Now I have a family. I have a life. I love my. I love traveling. I love all my free time. But if you're able to get up every day and feel like you're helping people, and the byproduct of that is that you can be academically challenged, you could use some of your skills for good, and you can make money. Like, I feel like the lucky Lucky. Like, that's a lucky place to be, you know? And so it's. It's a great profession. And I hate when lawyers trash it. I do. Because, you know, if you're in the. In the arena, you know, helping somebody and getting them justice at trial is one of the best feelings. It's like, I've. I'm not a drug person, you know, because I don't like the highs and low, which is kind of ironic being a trial attorney. But, you know, we had a case that we tried last year, me and my dad. You know, we try and miss the cases with him. And, you know, our client, we tried against the Ritz Carlton, and, you know, she was put through the washing machine, you know, by that defendant and, you know, essentially calling her a liar. And the jury saw through it and returned a verdict for me and her that wound up being over $3 million when she factored in all the interest they owed. And my dad texted me the next morning and said, I feel like we just got someone off a murder. This is the best feeling in the world. And I'll never forget, you know, when the judge read that verdict and the first question was, you know, was the rich Carlton negligent? Basically? And they said, yes. They didn't. I mean, they didn't. The first question wasn't like, and you get this much money and they found you to be injured. She sobbed so hard and collapsed into my arms that we did not even hear the rest of the verdict, because it wasn't about that. They might have awarded her $0. It was just like, no. They found that the version of the story you said was true. After four years of being told you're lying, and there's no. I mean, what better feeling in the world than that, you know, I don't know.
- [23:06]
B
That's what it's all about.
- [23:07]
A
Not for me. Not my skill set. I mean, I'm not a singer. I'm not a Lady Gaga or whatever. I mean, there's probably better feelings. I can't. You know, not Drew Brees or Tom Brady, but for what I'm capable of doing, there is no better place that I could. I could be at this point.
- [23:20]
B
You know, I talked to my buddy James Helm the other day. I was like, he's like. He's like my business book guy. And it's like, what are you reading? I showed him this fantasy novel. I was like, I haven't read one in 10 years. My team's telling me I need a hobby. We were laughing about it, and he Texts me. He's like, you don't have to do that. He's like, your purpose is doing this, is you enjoy the podcast, talking to individuals like yourself. And I was like, yeah, I do. And he's like, you don't need to read the fan.
- [23:50]
A
Yeah. But, like, the thing is, from what I've gathered, just listening to you and the podcast and stuff, you know, you have this beautiful business that you were able to build at a time when, like, there wasn't a roadmap to build it. And, you know, you. You sort of locked in and put your teeth in it and grew it and obviously worked like crazy to do it. But when you conversate with people about things that surround that business, it's not just like, hey, it's. It's more like, let's go deeper than that. You know, what's some unifying factor. And in that regard, like, I think we're very similar, because it's not. We could talk about, okay, this is the way that you put things in Google to maximize your SEO, you know, but, like, I love this idea that, like, let's talk about the bigger things in life and why are they important. Right. Because obviously, it can't just be about justice is not equal money, even though that's the system that we're in, you know, it has. It has to be bigger than that, or, you know, I don't know. You know, it's. It's troubling if it's not bigger than that. Right.
- [24:55]
B
This has been amazing. I really enjoyed this conversation for audience. Listen, it has a case that they want to refer to you. Why don't you tell just a little bit about your firm, like your practice areas, and then the best way to get in touch with you.
- [25:07]
A
Sure. So we're located in New Orleans, but we practice all over the state of Louisiana. We have lawyers that also are licensed in Texas, Florida. We take cases. If you want to get in touch with us, you can call us. You know, call my cell phone at 504-430-2159. But text me because everything's spam now. So I don't answer my cell phone. If you want to email me, It's Megan M E G A Niefer law.com K I E F E R law.com or if you find yourself in New Orleans and you want to get a cocktail, call me. Let's talk.
- [25:39]
B
Amazing, Megan. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
- [25:41]
A
Thanks, Chris.
- [25:46]
B
Megan's approach is an absolute masterclass in building a generational brand. When your clients love you enough to ask you to baptize their grandchild or bring you a cow, you know you're doing something right. That kind of reputation is your firm's absolute most valuable asset. But in a hyper competitive market, being the best lawyer in town doesn't matter if the injured people in your city can't find you. That's where we step in. If you're ready to dominate, search and turn your stellar reputation into a predictable pipeline of high value cases, head on over to Rankings IO. I'm Chris Dreyer. Thanks for listening to Personal Injury Mastermind. We'll catch you next.