← Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
Personal Injury Mastermind w/ Chris Dreyer
443. The NIL Advantage & Building Custom AI w/ Digger Earles, Laborde Earles
00:29:26
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- [00:01]
A
I heard someone on this podcast, or maybe it was even me, that told you that on my deathbed. I want my kids to know I love them. I want my wife to know I love them. And I want to know how many cases we signed that day. Right?
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B
Top line metrics feel great, but vanity numbers don't pay the bills.
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A
At the end of the year, when you start looking at projecting revenue, there's a really big number you also need to consider, and that's close without fee. If you sign up 100 cases, but only 75 pay, then you need to know that, right?
- [00:30]
B
Having the right data truly changes everything. And today's guest understands that as well as anybody. Today we're bringing back Digger Earls. He has helped build the laborde Earls injury Lawyers and one of the largest firms in Louisiana with seven offices, over 30 attorneys, and over $1 billion recovered for their clients. Digger knows exactly what it takes to
- [00:47]
A
scale, and I tell people all the time, you know why Shaquille o' Neal wears Reeboks? Or while Peyton Manning stands there with Papa John's? Or State Farm has Aaron Rodgers. Because it works. That's why.
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B
This is Personal Injury Mastermind. I'm Chris Schreier, founder and CEO of Rankings IO, the elite performance marketing agency for personal injury law firms. Today I'm pumped to announce that our guest, Digger Earls will be Speaking live at PIMCON this year, October 4 through 6 in Scottsdale, Arizona. He'll be diving deep into nil name, image and likeness deals to help you dominate your market. In this episode, we're talking about building in house AI while reducing attorney caseloads actually maximizes fees and the numbers you actually need to be tracking. Let's get into it. Hey, guys, I got one of my favorite humans back on the show. Digger Earls. Welcome back.
- [01:40]
A
Yeah, thanks, Chris. Glad to be back.
- [01:43]
B
And, you know, I know we talked just back in November, but I always like to start with a win. What's something recent the firm's excited about you're fired up about?
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A
Yeah. So I guess one thing I'm really excited about is, you know, all the AI craze sweeping the world these days. A lot of changes in the legal community. Lots of different AI products coming to market. We've tested a bunch of products. We reached out to some colleges and hired our own AI in house data guru, I guess I don't know his exact title, but he has his doctorate in artificial intelligence and he's helping us do some pretty amazing things with our own in house data and our own workflows. And how our systems and processes are moving along. So that's a huge win for us. We saw the need, we went out and got it, and it's already proven to be beneficial to us. And just a wonderful, wonderful home run for us.
- [02:41]
B
That's amazing. And I know I joked with you before that I creep all the company profiles and I noticed him on the team. Are you guys looking at where you're going to Data warehouse? Are you going to do a big query, a snowflake? Have you got into the weeds there? I mean, to me, that seems like one of the biggest hurdles, slash opportunities for the law firms.
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A
Yes. So he is into the. He's deep into the weeds already. He hit the ground running. He started with, in our mail room, just creating a workflow through AI software that. That automatically populates the files as the mail comes in. So that was. That was a huge home run for us. And I guess the power of what he does or what his background is. He was a pretty flawless project, right? It went pretty quickly and much more quickly than any other software implementation we've ever done before. So he's moved on to the next project, and we're looking at how we can streamline those workflows and become even more efficient than we already are.
- [03:42]
B
Let me ask you a question that's kind of taught. I just thought of this. You know, having the AI specialist in the office, is it. Is it like, oh, shit, this guy's like, about to automate my role or like, how has the team felt with his presence in the office?
- [03:59]
A
Yeah, that's a great question, Chris. And, you know, so far, we haven't been met with that, that feedback. It's more people are excited to learn from him and see how he can make them more efficient in their roles or how he can help them in their roles. If I would leave him alone, he would be much better off. But I keep pulling him into projects. I'm starting a trial next week, and he's helped me really comb through piles and piles and piles of medical records and data and expert reports. And we're utilizing AI for our jury venar next week. We've done a lot of background work on the panel, and I'm amazed at what he's brought to the table so far.
- [04:41]
B
Having a custom AI expert in house gives Digger a massive operational advantage in the courtroom and the back office. But technology is only as effective as the business strategy driving it. A lot of firms fall into the trap of thinking that more volume automatically equals more revenue. Up next, we talk about how Digger built a moat around his firm using name, image and likeness deals. I'm also excited you're going to be speaking at pimcon this year. So you're talking about Nil name, image, likeness, you know, professional athletes, the partnerships, and kind of some of the things that you've done in that space that's had an impact on your marketing. You know, maybe just a little preview of what you're going to talk about. Talk to me about some of these deals that you've done. Maybe the impact.
- [05:26]
A
Yes. So a lot of changes in the world with the Nil world right now. We were with professional athletes and celebrity endorsements before NIL became legal. And then with the Nil sweeping the nation, we jumped in Nil World as well. And I tell people all the time, you know, while Shaquille o' Neal wears Reeboks or Reebok has Shaquille o' Neal in Reeboks or while Peyton Manning stands there with Papa John's, or State Farm has Aaron Rodgers. Because it works. That's why. And we kind of picked up on that. We partnered with Alvin Camaro his rookie year, and we saw that really take off and rolled into an older Saints legend, quarterback Bobby Abare, and then into Taysom Hill and Jamal Williams. And we partnered with some nil deals with LSU athletes. And it's proven to be very beneficial for our brand. And it's wild that someone would choose a lawyer based on who they associate themselves with. But just look at the business world, and it's why celebrity endorsements are such a big deal.
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B
I agree 1,000%. I mean, there's a reason why Patrick Mahomes, the State Farm. I mean, there was a reason because people like Patrick Mahomes and then by nature, they think, hey, let me go with State Farm on the opposite side.
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A
It's wild to think that you get credibility just for standing on TV or social media with a NFL player, but you do. I'm in Louisiana, Football crazed South. And people, people hold these athletes as superheroes. And to have them give the public their vote of confidence or kind of endorse me in some sort of way just by being on the commercials with me, it's amazing. It's really cool. We're really proud to have kind of pioneered that in the legal world. When I started doing it with Alvin Camara years ago, no one else was really doing that. Now, I mean, imitation is the best form of flattery. Some other lawyers throughout Louisiana have started to bring athletes onto their marketing Campaigns. But anyway, it's good stuff.
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B
Let me ask you this, just touching on it, I see a lot of firms will try to do the full team and you've went the player route. I think we buy from people. There's the emotional, the relationship there. A lot of times too, there's fans like me that when a player moves, I go with, I go to that team because I'm following the player. Have you thought about that? That strategy of the individual versus the team and. Cause I know these licensing deals are massively expensive for the team stuff.
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A
The team stuff. The licensing deal is. I mean you're negotiating with the NFL or the NBA or you know, some real players there. Chris. So we felt that it focusing on the individual player was more of a connection to the fan base. Right. Instead of just a team or a brand being able to connect with an athlete and have those athletes participate. Instead of just using the NFL or the NBA team's logo or brand in commercials or naming the commercials, you have that athlete themselves come and make appearances and make commercials and lets the public see behind the scenes who they are underneath that helmet.
- [08:42]
B
I like that. It makes it makes it real. They can see them laugh at your association right next to them. And I've seen some of the commercials. Amazing. I am the worst design critic. You know, I look at my website today, then I like it, then look at the next day, then I hate it. And I look at your guys website. I think your website is phenomenal. But one of the things, I genuinely mean that one of the things is I like the, it's not stuffy, right? It's like you guys are in jeans, you're doing the flex, right? You're smiling, you got the, like everybody's in the polo, you know, like, like your, your professional tire. But it's not like the suits. Like with, you know, the one guy standing with the frown on his face. You're like, you look approachable.
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A
One of the reasons we partnered with athletes in our marketing campaign is how do you be different? How do you stand out? You know, years ago every lawyer commercial on TV was the, the lawyer in a stuffy law library talking about how he's the greatest lawyer and he's going to fight for you. And you know, after 20 lawyer commercials like that, how do you differentiate yourself and how do you stand out? So we came up with the NFL athlete. Well lawyer websites, every lawyer website. We've recovered billions for you and we fight for you and we're the best for you and we can do this for You. Well, our website's more. This is who we are. Yes, we're lawyers. And you'll see that side of our website. Yes, we've won billions. You'll see that side of our website. But this is who we are as people too. And you'll see it's kind of a fun, lighthearted parts of it as well. And comments have been pretty overwhelming favorable since the launch. So it's good stuff.
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B
Everybody in the team, they just seem approachable. Right. I feel like comfortable. I think people get in these.
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A
Yeah, that was the idea. That was really the idea is the user experience. When you come to that website, if you went to, if you're searching or trying to choose between lawyers in our markets and you come up, every law firm website kind of looks similar. And then you come across ours and it's like, hey, those guys look like they're serious at what they do, but they also are very relatable. And that was the whole idea behind the user experience of the website.
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B
Well, it's, it's working.
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A
So I love it on my side dot com, y'. All. Check it out.
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B
Even up is a specialized proactive AI built for personal injury law firms. Personal injury is in their DNA. Visit evenuplaw.com to learn more. You can have the best marketing in the world, but if your staffing model is broken, you're going to bleed. Revenue diggers build a culture that completely defies industry norms. Even if it wasn't necessarily up to him, his hyper focused approach to client care is exactly how he turned his firm into a 70% referral machine. And why he realized that pushing his attorneys to handle hundreds of files was actually leaving money on the table. I want to talk a little bit about team. The more I start to learn about this industry, right. I see the different staffing models and it kind of tells a story about the type of firm you are. And you know, a lot of these firms that process a lot of volume, very heavy on the case managers. I've heard some comments of anywhere from, you know, 100 to 150 and now you got tech enabled. And the one thing that stood out for your firm is different. I didn't see any case managers. I saw pre lit paralegals. And that's not to say that you don't care about client experience. Clearly you do, even from the website. I mean you got a thousand reviews. Your main office, 4.95 star review, like glowing reviews. You have a client experience manager.
- [12:17]
A
Yeah.
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B
Is it Louisiana and their direct action statute, the modified comparative, the One year statute. Is it like, like, talk to me about this decision and like how you're staffing versus like other firms.
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A
It may be wild for some of your listeners to hear, but in Louisiana you cannot have case managers. It has to be a lawyer that settles your case or negotiates your.
- [12:40]
B
Didn't know that?
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A
Yeah. So we have a lot of pre litigation paralegals that helps us build the files and gets them in order. But the pre lit lawyers, our model is separated in between pre litigation lawyers and litigation lawyers. And the pre lit calls come in pre lits, get them, get them set up, get them treating, figuring out insurance coverage and then ultimately trying to get that case settled for policy limits. And if it can't, then it gets pushed to the litigation guys and they file the lawsuits and litigate the case. But you know, we do, we have a customer experience manager here. We've mapped out our customer journey from the time the phone rings to the time the settlement check is placed into their hands. And we take it extremely serious, that customer journey from start to finish. Because we want to create fans. We want to create not only happy customers or happy clients, but we want to create fans that goes out into the community and promotes our brand and sends their family and friends to us.
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B
Yeah, those evangelists, I can't remember the exact stat you told me, but the percentage you told me on referrals was way higher than I've heard of before.
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A
And it's like 70%.
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B
Yeah. Unreal. I mean that's, that's amazing. And you want to talk. Everybody's. All this consolidation, everybody's costs go up and you're like, hey, I've got 70%. So you've got a, you got a nice moat there.
- [14:02]
A
Marketing costs seem to go up every year. Our CAC seems to increase every year, year over year. So what, how do you combat that? Right? If, if your competitors are spending more money, you have to spend more money. And there's only some X amount of pool of injured people in Louisiana and that pool's even shrinking with safer cars and just fewer wrecks. So what do you do different? You kind of lean into your customer base that you've already built out over the years and you take really good care of them and you stay in touch and you stay in front of them and you create fans or evangelists as you call them. And whenever their friends and family need a lawyer, there, you're at the top of their mind.
- [14:43]
B
That's really smart. And people talk about, well, like, what is marketing? Well, like marketing is everything you do. So this, the client experience is marketing. The other thing I was going to ask about is combating the rising costs on the front end is like obviously being great litigators. Right. You've got some amazing results for your clients, I guess for our audience. And this is more for our audience, not for me, of course. What's some tips to like, maximize fees just in general, like, if you're trying to maximize and increase your average fees.
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A
Well, Chris, one thing I always appreciated about your podcast and all the guests you've had on it is the guests that truly dialed into the numbers and the guests that really got into the details and shared information. That's what made an interesting podcast and what made me want to listen. So I want to do that for you as well. Thank you.
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B
Thank you.
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A
And, and what we have found is you get all these lawyers and all your lawyers just want as many cases as they can because they think more cases equals more money. Right. We've kind of found that there's a, there's a fine tuned number you can only touch X amount of cases, X amount of files per day. Whether you have 50 files or 500 files, you can only, only X amount of files per day can get your attention. And that number is different for every lawyer. Every lawyer's very different. But we try our best through our leadership team here to really fine tune what number these lawyers work best at. Right. And the best tip that I could tell you is more cases doesn't necessarily mean more money or more revenue for your firm or for that lawyer. Our lawyers are all commission based. And so they want to work hard and settle for as much as they can, settle as many cases they can to make more money for their families. And what you find. And it was a tough sell at first, but like, hey, instead of 200 cases, we're going to give you 75 and you're going to work the heck out of those 75 cases. So what do I find helps maximize those case values? It's fewer cases, but really focusing on attention to detail in those files. It's amazing what you find in those files when you really dig down or have the time to really dig down into what the case is, who your client is, who the defendant is, what you can uncover when you really spend the time to focus on it. The second part of really maximizing fees is taking them to the mat. And look, pet peeve of mine is these lawyers that come on and say, oh, well, we're going to fight for you, we're going to fight so hard. But insurance companies have amazing records and amazing data, and they know that when you settle 90% of your cases, they know when you accept less than policy limits on your cases, and they know who does it. So I'm not beating on my chest to tell you that I'm going to fight harder than anybody else, whatever. I'm just telling you that the devil's in the details on our side and their side, and they know who is going to stand up and take them to the end. I try a lot of cases. Our firm trials a lot of cases. I try a lot of cases myself. I start trial next Monday. It means something to really hold them accountable and to not accept their first offer, their second offer, or even their last offer, but really take them to the jury and let's see what the jury has to say.
- [18:07]
B
Thank you for sharing that. That's incredible. The first comment on the 75. I'm sure you did get pushback in the beginning, but it makes me think. I can't remember who I was talking to. It was like a fine law rep. He's talking about how they split the territory in half. I think it was a St. Louis Fine Law rep. And I was like, well, did you hit your quota? I was like, yeah, I hit my quota. They're like, we get half your territory. So smart business move. Right? They just doubled their revenue and.
- [18:40]
A
Great point. And I'm not saying that 75 is the magic number. I'm telling you, lawyer A may be rolling on all cylinders at 80. When lawyer B does his or her best at 60, you know, it's all about them and the team they have around them and their systems and their processes. Right. We have a lawyer who will read every word of every page 10 times. He can't have 100 files. Right. That's just his method, his way of doing things. And it works really, really well for him. But he needs fewer files to be able to do that.
- [19:16]
B
Yeah. And you've got the team surrounding. You got the paralegals, you got the investigators. You got all the resources. I guess a few other questions, like if you're going to choose to have a smaller docket of cases. I know attorneys hate the word soft tissue, right? But, like, does it, like, hey, we're. This doesn't, you know, this is an A, B, C to D. And like, hey, maybe the C's and D's now go to another firm. Like, you want to monetize. Of course. Right. Because you spend so much to market. Is that naturally happen on the front end, where you're screening a little bit more on the front end.
- [19:48]
A
No, we are screening better for losing cases. You know, tour de form hit Louisiana pretty hard in the last couple years. And no pay, no play in Louisiana used to be $15,000. You were barred from recovering the first $15,000 of your claim if you didn't have insurance. Last legislative session, they upped that till to $100,000. So if someone doesn't have insurance, they're barred from recovering the first $100,000 of their claim. So our intake team and our intake attorneys really focus on trying to figure out viable money making cases on the front instead of bogging our team down on cases that, that may not ever pay a dividend in the end. For example, no pay, no play. If they don't have insurance on their automobile when they get in an accident and their injuries aren't severe enough to ever get surpassed that $100,000 mark, then we cut them loose pretty quickly. Because if it's going to be a loser or a case that you don't make a fee on, then you don't want to tie your team up or bog your team down for a month or two just for no reason.
- [20:52]
B
I talked to a big name, one of the bigger attorneys in their state and they said during COVID they didn't know how it was going to go. So they signed up all the cases that they wouldn't normally sign and he was cursed and he's like, he didn't make money on any of those and he was just afraid.
- [21:09]
A
During COVID I just use no pay, no play as an example of something we call and get rid of. But your lower value cases, your young lawyers can cut their teeth on those lower value cases and they can get them in. If they're a prelate lawyer, they can get them in and get them set up and figure out the fleas on the case and try to expose the fleas early or how to beat back the fleas and make the case better. If they're young litigation lawyers, then you don't cut your teeth on the multimillion dollar cases. Where you really learn and fine tune your craft is with the smaller cases with issues with problems. That's how you become a better trial lawyer is when you handle cases with issues. Any dummy can handle a rear end collision with neck and back surgery and they just offer you the policy limits. That's not how you fine tune your craft. Where you really get good is whenever you got problems that you have to overcome. And young lawyers Dealing with problems, make them better lawyers.
- [22:07]
B
Well said. Well said. One other question I had is we got a lot of eos. I know you're in a lot of masterminds. You're constantly growing and making improvements and, and in eos they have, you know, track these leading indicators, these KPIs, make your scoreboard, make your Jumbotron, whatever it's called, in your seat at like kind of the top. Like what, what's some of the numbers, like key numbers that you're looking at to kind of judge the health or just things that you're interested in and seeing.
- [22:38]
A
Yeah. So we track and measure everything. And some of the numbers I look every day on how many cases we signed up every day. Right. And that's all I used to care about is I heard someone on this podcast, or maybe it was even me that told you that on my deathbed. I want my kids to know I love them, I want my wife to know I love them and I want to know how many cases we signed that day. That's all I cared about was how many cases we signed. Then at the end of the year when you start looking at revenue numbers or you know, projecting revenue is a really big number you also need to, to consider and that's close without fee. If you sign up 100 cases but only 75 pay, then you need to know that. Right. You're not basing your financial projections on 100 cases paying. It's only 75 that pay. So two, two big numbers are, you know, sign ups and then close without fee. You want to know your cost per acquisition, you know, your marketing dollars, how well they're, they're working. You want to know your average fee of the kept cases, what amount fees paid per case, what's the average pre lit versus lit. All kinds of numbers we're tracking, but I think those are the high level, most important ones. It's amazing what the data will show you when you start tracking large amounts of data. It's amazing the trends that become easily identifiable and the things you can recognize. My CFO predicts our revenue every year within 1 or 2% at the beginning of the year. And it's just data. We know we signed up this many cases last year at this average fee. We know we settle this much this percent of cases per month and this many in lit and this many in pre lit. And when you start tracking all that data over multiple years and over that much data, the trends become easy to see and easy to spot. And from a business owner standpoint, it's invaluable information to know within 1 or 2% where you're gonna end that year.
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B
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Lets you forecast, you know, avoid those pitfalls of overhiring, underhiring.
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A
Yeah, all the stuff. Every Monday, my CFO sends my partner and I. We call it the Jumbotron. And it's everything you can imagine that we are tracking. Every department reports up and, and has their report weekly. So every Monday afternoon we get that. We meet on it every Tuesday morning and we're monitoring cases signed, cases closed, closed without fee, percentages, average fees, how many settlements we're in this week, how many fees we're in this week. Attorney caseloads, paralegal caseloads, all those good things. But when you compile that data and you keep that data in a way that you can understand it, it's amazing what that data will tell you and where it will lead you and helps you make better decisions.
- [25:32]
B
Very smart. Thanks for sharing. Digger. This has been incredible. I'm really excited to have you speak at pimcon for audience that wants to connect with you. Has a case in Louisiana, wants to send to you, wants to talk shop. What's the best way to get in touch?
- [25:45]
A
Yeah. Onmysad.com is the website. Email is diggernmyside.com cell phone, 318-359-5069. Instagram, Facebook, all those good things. You can find me there. I love what I do. I love legal marketing. I love talking about it. Anybody, anytime you have an issue in Louisiana or you have something, maybe you want to bring a celebrity athlete to your hometown, call me. I've got some connections that maybe can make some introductions for you.
- [26:16]
B
Love to help amazing Digger. Thanks for coming on the show.
- [26:19]
A
Yeah, thanks, Chris.
- [26:24]
B
What an incredible conversation. Digger has proven that you don't have to accept the industry standard by leaning into technology. With custom in house AI, tracking the exact data that drives profit, and having the courage to reduce caseloads to maximize case values, he's built an absolute powerhouse down in Louisiana. If you want to hear more from Digger, and trust me, you do, you need to be at pemcon. This year he has taken the stage to break down his exact playbook for using name, image and likeness deals to completely dominate your market. You do not want to miss it. It's happening October 4 through 6 in Scottsdale, Arizona. Head on over to pimcon.org to secure your tickets before they're gone. I'm Chris Dreier. Thanks for listening to Personal injury, mastermind. See you next.