Today we go on a listening tour with audio legend Julie Shapiro, who has helped define what radio and podcasts could be over the past 25-plus years. Shapiro co-founded the Third Coast International Audio Festival, one of the most prestigious and influential awards in audio. She was a longtime executive at PRX Radiotopia, home of shows like Song Exploder, Kitchen Sisters Present and Everything is Alive. She helped launch and executive produced narrative podcasts such as Ear Hustle, first recorded inside San Quentin State Prison. Her shows have won Webby awards and Signal awards and been nominated for the Pulitzer Prize.

In this episode, host Mack Hagood plays stellar moments from Julie’s long history in audio and asks her to elaborate on how they were made and what made them great. They also discuss the current industry retrenchment, where budgets are shrinking and low-ambition video chat shows are redefining the very meaning of the word podcast. It’s an illuminating conversation that will appeal to fans and have audio producers taking notes.

Finally, Julie discusses her new project with partner John DeLore, Audio Flux—a platform and podcast for short audio pieces that is inspiring fantastic new works from around the world. The Audio Flux Podcast was just named by The New Yorker as one of the top 10 podcasts of 2025. In this episode Julie announces a call for new works that Phantom Power listeners might want to respond to!

Audio Showcase:

Katie Mingle - The Dead Can't Do You Nothin' (Third Coast Audio Festival)

Owen Ever & Laine Kaplan-Levenson - A Field Guide to Gay Animals (Canadaland)

Nigel Poor & Earlonne Woods - Ear Hustle (Radiotopia/PRX)

Vivien Schütz & Laura Rojas Aponte - Red Card (AudioFlux)

Julie Shapiro & John DeLore - AudioFlux

Radio Shows/Podcasts:

Hrishikesh Hirway - Song Exploder (Radiotopia)

The Kitchen Sisters - The Kitchen Sisters Present (Radiotopia)

Ian Chillag - Everything is Alive (Radiotopia)

Roman Mars - 99% Invisible (Radiotopia)

Sarah Koenig - Serial (Serial Productions)

Ira Glass - This American Life (WBEZ/PRX)

Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich - Radiolab (WNYC)

Gwen Macsai - Re:sound (Third Coast/WBEZ)

Signal Hill (Audio Magazine)

Organizations/Festivals:

Third Coast International Audio Festival

PRX Radiotopia

Radio Workshop

Chapters:

0:00 Introduction

0:21 Julie Shapiro Introduction

5:44 Listening Habits

8:26 Katie Mingle: The Dead Can't Do You Nothin'

9:52 Third Coast Audio Festival

16:47 A Field Guide to Gay Animals

24:38 Ear Hustle Ep. 7 Unwritten. 9:47-11:07

32:17 Red Card by Vivien Schütz and Laura Rojas Aponte (AudioFlux)

36:28 Audio Flux Circuit Seven - Trash or Treasure

44:50 Closing Remarks

Click here to read the full transcript

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What makes a podcast great? Legendary producer Julie Shapiro shows us.