E221: How to Explore Your Kinks Without Shame (Cuckolding, Pegging, Breeding, and more)

Summary

Pillow Talks Episode E221: How to Explore Your Kinks Without Shame (Cuckolding, Pegging, Breeding, and More)
Hosts: Vanessa & Xander Marin | QCODE
Release Date: August 14, 2025

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Introduction to Kinks and Fantasies

In Episode E221 of Pillow Talks, hosts Vanessa and Xander Marin delve deep into the intricate world of kinks and sexual fantasies. Addressing listeners' curiosities and concerns, they aim to demystify various kinks, providing expert insights to help couples explore their desires without shame or judgment.

Understanding Kinks: Definitions and Psychological Perspectives

Vanessa and Xander begin by addressing common questions about why individuals develop specific kinks. Vanessa, with her extensive 20-year background as a sex therapist, emphasizes that not all kinks stem from psychological trauma or childhood experiences. She likens sexual preferences to food preferences—something that individuals simply develop without needing a profound explanation.

Vanessa Marin (03:04): "Most people have a pretty narrow definition of what contributes or constitutes as, like, not kinky. It's like man and a woman having missionary, in and out intercourse. That's it."

Xander adds that societal perceptions often wrongly categorize anything beyond conventional sex as "kinky," leading individuals to feel abnormal or flawed for their desires.

Xander Marin (02:31): "Because I think a lot of people are embarrassed, feeling like they are wanting something that is not perceived as normal."

They conclude that while some kinks can be traced to specific experiences—such as associating leather with arousal for some individuals—most are simply natural variations in human sexuality.

Cuckolding vs. Hot Wifing: Definitions and Distinctions

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to unpacking the concepts of cuckolding and hot wifing, two popular but often conflated kinks.

Vanessa Marin (19:21): "Cuckolding typically happens in male-female relationships where the woman has sex with another man and her partner watches the two of them have sex."

The hosts differentiate the two by highlighting the emotional dynamics involved. Hot wifing is portrayed as a more positive experience where the male partner derives pleasure from seeing his wife with another man, often without elements of humiliation.

Xander Marin (19:46): "Hot wifing is like, hey, bro, let my wife fuck you. So you can see how great she is."

In contrast, cuckolding may involve aspects of humiliation, such as emphasizing the other man's superior performance, which can be a turn-on for those who enjoy humiliation dynamics.

Vanessa Marin (20:14): "Cuckold and then cuckolding. People tend to use it in the way where there's some amount of humiliation that's happening."

Compersion and Emotional Dynamics

The concept of compersion—a term often used in polyamorous communities—is introduced as a positive emotional response derived from seeing one's partner experience pleasure with others.

Vanessa Marin (24:06): "Compersion is getting pleasure from seeing other people's pleasure."

Xander further explores this by contrasting it with common feelings of jealousy, explaining that for some, compersion allows them to share in their partner's joy without any negative emotions.

Xander Marin (24:28): "It’s like, well, no, like, if you, you know, if it is possible to feel the compersion, like the to actually get the same thing that your partner is getting out of it."

Fantasizing During Sex: Is It Okay?

A prevalent question among listeners pertains to the permissibility and impact of fantasizing about others during sex with a partner. The hosts acknowledge that sexual fantasies about third parties are common and do not inherently signal dissatisfaction with one's partner.

Vanessa Marin (25:28): "So if you feel uncomfortable with it, if you feel like your partner would be uncomfortable with it, then, yeah, I think that’s probably something to stop doing or to take a look at."

Xander suggests that while occasional fantasies are normal, recurrent and disruptive fantasizing may indicate a lack of presence in the sexual relationship.

Xander Marin (26:02): "How could you ever expect someone to be like, no, I have never once in my entire life, ever, when I've been having sex, ever had a thought about anybody else."

They propose a litmus test for couples: considering how each partner would feel if the other engaged in similar fantasies, fostering open communication about boundaries and comfort levels.

Types of Kinks and Common Fantasies

Referencing Justin Lehmiller’s research from his book Tell Me What You Want, Vanessa outlines the seven most common sexual fantasies:

1. Multi-Partner Sex (Threesomes and Beyond)
2. Power, Control, and Rough Sex
3. Novelty, Adventure, and Variety
4. Taboo and Forbidden Sex
5. Passion, Romance, and Intimacy
6. Non-Monogamy and Partner Sharing
7. Erotic Flexibility and Gender Bending

These categories highlight the diverse interests that people may have, ranging from the simple desire for new experiences to engaging with deeply ingrained fantasies.

Vanessa Marin (08:25): "He came up with the seven most common fantasies... Number one is multi partner sex... Number two is power, control and rough sex..."

Exploring Specific Kinks: Breeding, Cuckolding, and Pegging

Breeding Kink

A listener’s question about the breeding kink is discussed, defined as the arousal from the idea of impregnating one's partner. Vanessa explains that while some individuals genuinely desire pregnancy, for most, it remains a fantasy.

Vanessa Marin (31:23): "It's the idea of being procreating, of spreading your seed, of passing on your legacy."

Cuckolding and Role Dynamics

Building on earlier discussions, Vanessa and Xander explore the emotional and psychological facets of cuckolding, emphasizing that for some, it's a consensual and enjoyable dynamic rather than a source of shame or insecurity.

Vanessa Marin (21:08): "It's not about it being insulting to her. It's a really hot, sexy thing for him if he's into it."

Pegging and Role Reversal

Addressing a complex scenario where a straight male desires pegging while his wife is uncomfortable, Vanessa and Xander offer guidance on navigating such sensitive conversations. They stress the importance of open dialogue, setting clear boundaries, and respecting each partner’s comfort levels.

Vanessa Marin (57:18): "Tell him whatever, you know, history you have around that word... And hear what he says about it, why he likes it..."

Xander Marin (60:06): "It's my thing. It's not your thing."

Navigating Communication and Boundaries in Kink Exploration

Throughout the episode, Vanessa and Xander emphasize the significance of communication and mutual respect in exploring kinks. They advocate for initiating candid conversations about desires, setting boundaries, and being open to compromise.

Vanessa Marin (30:13): "How would you feel if your partner was doing what you're doing?"

Moreover, they recommend practical steps such as trying new kinks in a controlled manner, scheduling specific times for exploration, and using toys to fulfill desires without imposing uncomfortable scenarios on either partner.

Xander Marin (46:07): "This honestly sounds like a bit more like a scene he's wanting you to play out..."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Vanessa and Xander reiterate that exploring kinks should be a consensual and enjoyable process for both partners. They encourage listeners to approach their sexual desires with confidence, openness, and a willingness to understand each other’s perspectives.

Vanessa Marin (63:23): "It's actually shockingly common how much men enjoy playing around with some of these, you know, traditionally female things."

Xander Marin (63:26): "Gender bending was one of the most common things in the world."

The hosts conclude by reminding listeners that their sexual preferences are valid and that exploring them can enhance intimacy and satisfaction within relationships.

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Notable Quotes

• Xander Marin (02:31): "Because I think a lot of people are embarrassed, feeling like they are wanting something that is not perceived as normal."

• Vanessa Marin (08:25): "He came up with the seven most common fantasies... Number one is multi partner sex... Number two is power, control and rough sex..."

• Vanessa Marin (14:22): "If you're interested in spicing things up in the bedroom, exploring a little bit of kink for beginners, we do have an episode about that too."

• Xander Marin (19:21): "What the hell is cuckolding, Vanessa?"

• Vanessa Marin (30:18): "So breeding kink is when you get turned on about the idea of impregnating your partner."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Pillow Talks serves as a comprehensive guide for individuals and couples seeking to understand and explore their sexual kinks without shame. Vanessa and Xander Marin provide a balanced perspective, blending professional expertise with personal experiences to create an engaging and informative discussion. Whether you're curious about the basics of kinks or grappling with specific sexual dynamics, this episode offers valuable insights to help navigate the complexities of human sexuality.

Transcript

[Xander Marin]

My boyfriend, 26, has enjoyed receiving play for quite some time. However, in the last several months, this has started to constantly pop up during sex, no matter what type of mood we're in going into it.

[Vanessa Marin]

We also got a lot of questions about fantasizing during sex. A lot of people asking, like, is it okay to fantasize about other people when I'm having sex with my partner? By far and away, the most common question was about cuckolding.

[Xander Marin]

Mm, surprise, surprise.

[Vanessa Marin]

What's the deal with cuckolding?

[Xander Marin]

What the hell is cuckolding? Vanessa?

[Vanessa Marin]

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

[Xander Marin]

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

[Vanessa Marin]

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we are going there and answering all of your questions about kinks and fantasies.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, this will be good.

[Vanessa Marin]

We put a question box up on Instagram and we asked for people's questions. We said, what are you curious about? What do you want to know? Is there anything you're struggling with in your relationship? And I got to say, you know, I've been in this field for 20 over 20 years. I've heard pretty much everything. But there were some good questions in this batch. So I am very excited to dive in.

[Xander Marin]

And you know, I. I've obviously been with Vanessa for. I've been with Vanessa almost close to eight. It's been, what, 18 years? It's been really close to October. It'll be, it'll be 18 years.

[Vanessa Marin]

Or no, wait, December. It'll be.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so 17 and a half.

[Xander Marin]

Okay. I've been with her close to 20 years at this point and I'm obviously not a sex therapist, but we've talked about almost all of this stuff. I've almost heard as much as Vanessa, so I'm excited to talk about this.

[Vanessa Marin]

All right, well, let's dive into these questions. We're gonna do our best to give you our honest judgment, free expert backed answers. Okay, so first let's talk a little bit about kinks and fantasies in general. Cause we got a lot of background type of questions.

[Xander Marin]

But why do I want this?

[Vanessa Marin]

But why? Like, so a ton of people ask, like, is there a psychological Reason or an explanation why people have kings?

[Xander Marin]

Because I think a lot of people are. Are embarrassed, feeling like they are wanting something that is not perceived as normal. And something therefore must be wrong with me because I'm desiring that thing. And so I think, of course, when we think something is wrong with us, we. We wanna figure out why. Like, okay, well, let's trace it back to what happened to me in childhood.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

I think maybe the assumption, like, oh, well, if I can sort that out, maybe this thing will go away.

[Vanessa Marin]

And most people have a pretty narrow definition of what contributes or constitutes as, like, not kinky. It's like man and a woman having missionary, in and out intercourse. That's it.

[Xander Marin]

Maybe a couple more positions are okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

But a lot of people think of pretty much anything else is, like, being kinky. And so, of course, yeah, if we have that definition, then it feels like this other stuff is more taboo, it's outside of the norm. And then we want to understand where does it come from. So the reality is that there is not always a clear psychological explanation for why people have kinks.

[Xander Marin]

Sometimes there might be, but often, sometimes there can be.

[Vanessa Marin]

I have worked with clients in the past where we were able to trace it back to some specific childhood incident, a moment in time where a person came across some leather and they started getting really interested in leather. We have this saying, neurons that fire together, wire together. So if two things happen kind of close together where you happen to stumble across the leather and you also happen to be turned on in that moment, we can have those experiences tie together in a certain sort of way.

[Xander Marin]

Especially if we're in a developmental phase. We're young, our brains are developing.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. But again, this was rare that we could go back and find this specific, like, oh, yeah, I was masturbating with this leather, and I, you know, whatever. Like, in the vast majority of cases, we've never found, like, a specific reason. And that's very normal and totally okay. I actually like to think of our sexual preferences like our food preferences. Like, we just have food preferences and there's not any sort of history or explanation behind them. Like, I don't like oysters and mussels. I don't have any, like, trauma around them. That's another thing that comes up with kinks too. A lot of times people think like, oh, is it related to a trauma? And absolutely not. That's not the case for the vast majority of people. But like, yeah, I don't have any trauma around mussels or oysters. I just happen not to like them, and you happen not to like, oh, my God.

[Xander Marin]

I also don't like oysters.

[Vanessa Marin]

You don't love oysters?

[Xander Marin]

I like cooked oysters. I'm cool with that. I don't like raw oysters. I don't like unique.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

I don't like a couple other things. I'm. I'm pretty adventurous. But that's kind of funny because it's.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, in and out of the bedroom. You're probably more adventurous with your food.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, but. No, no. I mean, but. But the funny thing. But. But the funny thing about it for me is that it's like, if you do want to play the game of, like, tracing it back to childhood, I really don't have any reason in my childhood that would seem to predict that I would actually be really into. Like, I would be really adventurous when it comes to food, because, in fact, I was very much the opposite as a kid. I was really, really picky. I barely ate anything. It was a problem. Like, it was a serious problem. Like, I would eat hot dogs and. And, like, green peas. That was like, the only vegetable that I would eat. And maybe, like, potatoes or something. Like, it was like, I just didn't want to eat any other things, and I didn't want to eat very much of them. And like, that, like, that was almost like a trauma for me as a kid. Like, it was bad. It was really bad. And, you know, so you would think, oh, yeah. Well, it's like, if it's like that, your experience as a kid with something then predicts the way you feel about it later on. Like, then it would be like, oh, like, I'm just a super picky eater, but I'm not. So, you know. Yeah, just like Vanessa was saying every now and then for someone, you can trace it back for the most part. No, it just kind of is what it is. I mean, I would even say it's kind of like, you know, to think back to, like, when you started going through puberty and you started, like, getting really attracted to people or, you know, maybe, like, attracted to celebrities or musicians or whatever. Like, why is it that you really liked one person and not another? Right? Like, it's kind of random. Like. Yeah. I don't know. I was like, 13. I was like, oh, my God, Britney Spears is so hot. But then, like, you know, I wasn't into, you know, a bunch of other people that other people thought were hot at the time. It was like, why was it that I gravitated towards her specifically? I don't know. I'M not into Britney Spears anymore. But you know, there was a couple years when I thought she was really hot when I was 13.

[Vanessa Marin]

So yeah, bottom line, there isn't always an explanation and we don't need to explain them for them to be valid. Like, if it's something that you're curious about and interested in, like, it's valid just because it is.

[Xander Marin]

Also, even if you were able to trace it back to something and explain it, that's probably not going to make it go away. Right. Like, I mean, I'm curious in your, in your kind of like clinical experience, like working with people in those cases where you traced it back, did it somehow like become less enticing?

[Vanessa Marin]

No, not at all.

[Xander Marin]

To those people. I think it's like at that point, it's like you've been fantasizing about this thing for so long, it's something that really turns you on. It's not going to go away. It's kind of like how we don't, you know, when we get married, we're attracted to our partner. We don't wake up one day and we're like, oh my God, I've completely lost all attraction to them. I'm not physically attracted to them at all. Like, that doesn't happen because like you said, these neurons have been wired together and fired together for so long.

[Vanessa Marin]

There's been some really interesting research done by Justin Lehmiller. He has a great book called Tell Me what yout Want about fantasies. So he shared he did a ton of research on asking people about their fantasies. And he came up with the seven most common fantasies. And I thought this list is very interesting. Number one is multi partner sex. So threesome and above. Number two is power, control and rough sex. Three, novelty, adventure and variety. So what I thought was interesting.

[Xander Marin]

I don't even know. This sounds like a kink.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. What I think is interesting about that is like, it's very. It's a very like large grouping of things. Like, it's not a specific act. It's just this idea of. Yeah. People fantasize about doing new things, having adventure with their partner.

[Xander Marin]

Oh. So it's kind of like, oh, like trying something new for the first time. Like. Yeah. I think that there's something hot about that idea of like, oh, like this person is about to discover something.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Number four is taboo and forbidden sex. So you like specifically get turned on because you feel like you're not supposed to be turned on by something. Five is passion, romance and intimacy, which I thought was so sweet. Like I think sometimes we, most of the time we think of kink and fantasy as being these, like, really intense, over the top things. But like, a lot of people just straight up fantasize about being romantic with their partner, like, making out. It's very cute. Six was non monogamy and partner sharing, and seven is erotic flexibility and gender bending. Then he also polled people about why they fantasize. And I thought this list was fascinating. There are 12 different reasons on this list, which is pretty interesting. Like, I think most people, if you'd asked, like, well, why do you think people fantasize? It'd be like, just to get turned on or get sexy. But listen to all these different reasons to experience sexual arousal. Yes. Because you're curious about different sexual experiences and sensations. To meet unfulfilled sexual needs. To temporarily escape reality. To express or fulfill a societally taboo sexual desire. To plan out a future sexual encounter. To relax or reduce anxiety because you're bored and don't have anything else to do. That was literally 40% of people. To feel more sexually confident, to meet unfulfilled emotional needs, to block out distractions during sex, and to compensate for an unattractive or undesirable partner. That one's rough.

[Xander Marin]

That was reported by 12% of people.

[Vanessa Marin]

And then there were also questions about people asking, like, what's the difference between a fantasy and a kink? And when do you know if it's like, something that you actually want to do in real life versus something that you just want to fantasize about? So we'll just run through this quickly. Like, there aren't hard and fast scientific definitions here, but in general, we tend to use the word fantasy in the sex therapy world to mean anything that you imagine or picture that turns you on. And we use kink to express when something feels more central to your sexual experience. Like, it has to be a part of the experience for you to feel.

[Xander Marin]

Sexually fulfilled as, like, as more of a layperson. Like, the way that I was almost thinking about this was like, okay, well, a fantasy is obviously, it's something that's coming up over and over in your head, something that you're curious about. And it may be even something that you try with a partner. Like, hey, I've been, you know, I've been fantasizing about having a threesome. Like, you know, maybe let's fantasize about it together. And then like, maybe you try it out once and you're like, okay, cool, that was fun. Like, I don't need to go do this every month to feel sexually fulfilled. Whereas it would cross into kink territory if it's like, oh, this is something, you know. And honestly, I think this is something that's unlikely to develop like. Like midway through your. Your sex life, I would think. Like, I feel like, you know, often a kink is something you've been. You've been thinking about over and over, whereas often a fantasy is like, oh, huh, I saw something in a movie that kind of piqued my curiosity. And now I'm thinking about it a bit. And I think often with that, it's like, okay, you try and like, okay, cool. That. That was. That was fun. Maybe we will do this every now and then, but it doesn't feel like I need this in order to feel fulfilled. Whereas, you know, a kink might be something that you're wanting to come back to over and over and over again. And it kind of feels like this is what sex needs to be for me.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

You know, kind of like how we say, you know, for most women, sex needs to incorporate touching the clitoris in order to. Or stimulating the clitoris in order for it to be enjoyable. That's sort of like a, you know, I don't know, a physiological kink, so to speak. Right. Like, it's just a physiological fact that this is what. This is what women need in order to feel pleasure during sex. And a kink is almost sort of like an emotional version of that where it's like, I need. Like, I need to do it in a certain way in order to really, like, get the full satisfaction out of the experience.

[Vanessa Marin]

Interesting. But, yeah, again, it's not like a hard and fast thing. Like, it's. You know, you might still be able to experience, you know, enjoyment and pleasure without the kink, but that's just kind of like a rough. A rough way of expressing it. And then, yeah, between fantasy and an actual desire. Like, I think of fantasy as something that we just like to play with in our heads that feels arousing and turned on. Whereas a desire is something that we actually want to do in real life. So it's very common to fantasize about things that you don't actually wanna do in real life. Like, that's part of the fun of it is that you're playing with it in your head. You know, you would never do it. So, like, a super common one is the threesome. So many people fantasize about threesomes, but don't actually want to do them in their real lives. Cause they're like, I don't know what that really would be like to watch my partner hook up with another person. What it would be like, like afterwards and we're all lying there. What it would feel like to watch my part partner, you know?

[Xander Marin]

So, yeah, I feel like that's, I mean, that's like us, like. Yeah, yeah, the idea sounds super hot. It sounds super fun. But the actual, like, I mean, we've done an episode. Yeah, we, we've even done an episode talking about, about threesomes and. Yeah. The amount of kind of legwork required to make this happen. Just like to, you know, to find the right person. Not to mention all the conversations, all the sort of like emotional labor that goes into making sure that you are both going to feel good about the situation. I'm like, that seems like a lot. It's hotter to me when it's just in our head or something that we talk dirty about occasionally.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. And if you are interested in spicing things up in the bedroom, exploring a little bit of kink for beginners, we do have an episode about that too. That's episode 53. Going way back. 53. Did you know that 30% of Americans grind their teeth at night?

[Xander Marin]

I'm one of them.

[Vanessa Marin]

I am also one of them. Neither of us knew it until our dentist had to point out that for both of us, our enamel was chipping like we were literally destroying our teeth. And we've actually turned into teeth geeks. We've both been on some dental journeys to protect and strengthen and straighten our teeth. And I'm very proud now of my smile. And it's very important to keep it looking good. So that's why we're really excited to tell you about Remy and their custom fit night guards. Night guards are the best way to protect your teeth. And Remy is less than 80% the cost of the dentist and way easier. So here's how it works. They send you an impression kit straight to your door with step by step instructions for getting the perfect impression. You send it back to them and they ship you your custom fit night guard made in the US In Vegas. And then you get your night guard back and you can start protecting your teeth right away. Remy is so confident that you'll get a perfect fit that they offer a 45 night perfect fit guarantee or your money back. No waiting rooms, no overpriced bills. Just a better way to protect your teeth while you sleep. Try Remy risk [e-mail] pillow and use code PILLOW to get up to 50% off your night guard at checkout that's 50% off at shop r m I.com pillow with code PILLOW. Thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this episode. This episode is sponsored by Splash Blanket, the original luxury waterproof blanket redefining what it means to get messy and stay cozy. Could there be any more perfect podcast sponsor for us than splash Blanket?

[Xander Marin]

I'm so. I love that we have bedding sponsors.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think for so many of us, fears about getting the bed messy really get in the way of sex. Like, you end up holding yourself back because you're worried about, you know, nobody wants to sleep in the wet spot. We don't want to ruin the sheets. So Splash Blanket is the perfect solution. These blankets are made to handle over a liter of liquid. Nothing will get through this blanket. They're super absorbent, 100% waterproof, and they come in a variety of sizes and styles. So the whole point of the splash blanket is not just that you can waterproof your bed, but also that it's something that you can have have on display. You don't have to, like, hide it in the closet or worry about somebody coming over and seeing it. Like, they make these beautiful blankets that you can have out and nobody will know what they actually.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, this is. This is not like a crinkly waterproof blanket. I think most people.

[Vanessa Marin]

This is luxurious.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, most people are like, oh, waterproof sheets. Like, you get on it and it's like, no. Like, this is a legit blanket that happens to be waterproof.

[Vanessa Marin]

And they actually have a couple of different options, too. They have smooth bamboo sheets and super plush snuggly fleece, super silky faux fur. So you can find something for everybody in a huge selection of colors. So go ahead, let it gush. Pour the massage oil, turn up the heat. And Splash Blanket is offering an incredible deal for our listeners. Use code pillow talk for 15% [e-mail] that's code pillow talk for 15% off splashblanket.com because there's nothing sexy about midnight laundry, are we? Right? Okay, so next question. Now we're getting more into the questions about, like, specific fantasies and scenarios that are coming up for people. By far and away, the most common question was about cuckolding.

[Xander Marin]

Mm, surprise, surprise.

[Vanessa Marin]

What's the deal with cuckolding?

[Xander Marin]

What the hell is cuckolding, Vanessa?

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so cuckolding typically happens in male female relationships where the woman has sex with another man and her partner watches the two of them have sex.

[Xander Marin]

Now, how is. And I feel like, because this is having a cultural moment, we have to differentiate. What's the difference between cuckolding and hot wifing?

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. Typically, the way that people use those phrases is that with. So it's. It's the same scenario where you have a male female couple and she's having sex with somebody outside of the relationship. In hot wifing, that tends to be more that like, the. The male partner is enjoying watching it.

[Xander Marin]

He thinks he's giving his wife to another man. Look how she. I want you to see how great she is.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, I want you to get to enjoy her.

[Xander Marin]

It's kind of like a super positive vibe.

[Vanessa Marin]

Cuckold and then cuckolding. People tend to use it in the way where there's a little added layer of humiliation around it. So it's for.

[Xander Marin]

For the man who has to watch, like, you're stuck in the corner. This is the classic, like, chair in the corner of the room. The cuck chair.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Where it's like, bad boy. You sit in the corner and watch me get fucked by this other guy. Whereas hot wifing is like, hey, bro, let my wife fuck you. So you can see how great she is.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, a little bit. But, yeah. I mean, oftentimes the humiliation can come around penis size. Like, the other guy who's having sex with the female partners, like, he's bigger. And maybe she's making fun of her partner of like, oh, he's so much bigger. He's fucking me so much better than you are. So there's like a little element of humiliating the partner.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I think there's probably a big element of humiliation and cuckolding.

[Vanessa Marin]

Again, it's not a super. Like, some people use the phrase cuckolding just to mean, like, you're watching your partner have sex with somebody else.

[Xander Marin]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Or your partner is just having sex with somebody else. You're not necessarily watching. So people use these phrases in different ways, which can be a little bit confusing. But yeah, typically the way that, you know, the way that it is used is that there's some amount of humiliation that's happening.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. I mean, I think the interesting thing about this is that if. If this is not a fantasy that you've ever considered, when you hear us describe this, you're probably thinking, like, oh, God, well, that sounds horrible for the guy who's, like, being humiliated sitting in the corner. But if you talk to someone who is into any kind of humiliation type of fantasy, like, they will say, like, yeah, no, like, I get off on that humiliation. Like, I enjoy it. I'm playing with different dynamic. Like, you know, it's in my everyday life. Like, I'm not, like, going around just getting humiliated all the time. It's like, not something I'm down on myself about. It's like, you know, it's like I'm playing with this opposite energy that feels exciting sexually to me. So if you talk to someone that is into this, they're not like, oh, God, I have to go get cuckolded again tonight. They're like, fuck, yeah, I can't wait to be in my cup chair. Yes, my wife is cucking me tonight.

[Vanessa Marin]

No, they're very excited about it. Yeah. And oftentimes you bring up a good point too. Like, oftentimes in the bedroom, people like to channel energy that is very different from how they are outside of the bedroom.

[Xander Marin]

So often is like, he might be like a big boss.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, yeah. In a super powerful position. And then he enjoys, like, that play of being more submissive in the bedroom. So that happens very, very often. We also sometimes get questions about. Like, a lot of times we hear about this from women saying, my husband wants me to do this. And, like, I'm so disgusted. And why would he want to do that? And it feels like. It feels insulting to the woman, but it's really not. Like, it's not about. It's not him. How do I describe it? Like, it's not an insult to her. It's a really hot, sexy thing for him if he's into it and it's as. Or if it's like he's wanting to share her with other men because she's so sexy, she's so hot. He wants to see other people getting to enjoy what it's like to be with her. So it's not a. Like. Yeah, it's not an insult.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. I mean, but ultimately, like, if you are the partner of someone that wants you, like, if your partner wants you to go have sex with other people, like, only if that's something that you are into. Like, you're into that. Okay. If I have permission to do that, I can see a way that this could be really fun and hot to get to experience something that I might not otherwise get to experience or something like that. But yeah, I mean, if you're like, oh, God, no, I don't feel okay with that. It's not like Vanessa's not saying, oh, yeah, no, it's super hot. Go do it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, no, no. I mean, everybody gets to have their own boundaries. Just because your partner's into something doesn't mean you have to do it at all. But, yeah, it's not an insulting thing. I also want to bring up this term, compersion. That's a word that we use to describe getting pleasure from seeing other people's pleasure. So for some, like, watching their partner with another person, it's not just that. It's like, oh, it's so naughty and taboo and wrong. And that's what's getting me turned on. Like, there's a genuine love that you feel, a genuine joy that you feel like seeing your partner, seeing other people get to experience pleasure.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, that's a term that you very often will hear in the polyamorous community of like, you know, the compersion of seeing your partner get to experience feelings of love with somebody else. It's like, you can, like, you got to vicariously kind of like get something out of. Of the. What they are getting from that. Whereas, you know, many people would be like, oh, my God, I would be so jealous. I would feel, you know, disgusted or whatever. It's like, well, no, like, if you, you know, if it is possible to feel the. The compersion, like the. To actually get the same thing that your partner is getting out of it. Not that one of those is better than the other. It's just like, you know, all of our brains are wired in different ways.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Okay. We also got a lot of questions about fantasizing during sex. A lot of people asking, like, is it okay to fantasize about other people when I'm having sex with my partner? We heard about this most often from women, and we actually heard from a fair number of women who said, like, I feel like I can't get off unless I'm actively fantasizing about somebody else. So let's. Let's hear. What is your take on this? Is it okay to fantasize about other people during sex with your partner?

[Xander Marin]

This is so interesting because it was a couple of weeks ago that we recorded it, but the podcast that came out a couple of days ago from right now when we're recording was me talking about, you know, it was like, Xander speaks for all men. And, like, what do men think about? Whatever. And one of the things we were talking about was, like, there was a question of, like, you know, when. When you see. When a man sees, like, a hot woman, is he thinking about having sex with her? And I was basically saying, like, no, like, my mind isn't, like, for the most part, my mind is not immediately going to like, oh, let me imagine having sex with this person right now. But, like, yes, I think we all at times have those, you know, whether it's a split second thought or a more long and drawn out thought that we decide to entertain. Like, we, I think any of us that are sexually active or not asexual have those thoughts every now and then, right? And so it's like, how could you, how could you ever expect someone to be like, no, I have never once in my entire life, ever, when I've been having sex, ever had a thought about anybody else. Like, I think everybody has at some point, and especially anybody that has had sex with more than one partner, that has had any, you know, more than one sexual experience. I can imagine how if you've only ever had sex with one person, it might be a little harder to think about sex with somebody else because you legit have not ever had that experience. But, you know, not only is it possible to fantasize, it's possible to just literally have memories. So I think that this is a, this is a really tough question because the reality is I think 100% of sexually active people will have this thought or maybe even this fantasy at some point in time. I think the question is what you do with it. What you do with it and how often it comes up. So, like, if you're finding, huh, I am having this recurring fantasy every single time I have sex with my partner. And I'm feeling like I'm not able to be present with my partner or I'm kind of phoning it in with my partner and really I'm like, mostly checked out having this other fantasy or I feel like I can't really enjoy myself at all without having that fantasy. I don't know, it's like, I don't want to say that's not okay, but I feel like it's like, in a way, I wonder if you're doing a bit of a disservice to your partner. Like you're not really there. You're not really there with them.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so I have a great litmus test for this one because I don't think that there's any black or white right or wrong answer here. This really depends on the couple. Like, there are some couples who would feel super uncomfortable with this, and there are some couples who would feel very turned on and excited by this. So the litmus test here is, how would you feel about your partner doing exactly what you're doing? So if you think about your partner actively fantasizing about somebody else while they're having sex with you, if that makes your stomach turn and your heart flop down into your gut, then you probably shouldn't be doing it yourself.

[Xander Marin]

Well, what if you're like, oh, yeah, I'd be so turned on by that, so therefore, it's fine for me to do it. It's more of like, what do you think your partner would feel? Rather than like, both of them.

[Vanessa Marin]

Could be a litmus test. How would you feel if your partner was doing what you're doing? And how do you think your partner would feel if you told them what you were doing?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I think if both of those, you can be like, check, check. And then I think the other, even the third one would be like, okay, so then, like, I'd challenge you. If you're like, yeah, my partner would be super into it, and I would be super into it, then it'd be like, okay, great. Well, then I think you shouldn't have any problem bringing this up with them tonight. Right. And if you're like, yep, no problem, I'm going to do that, and it's all cool, then great. But if you're all of a sudden like, ooh, actually, I'm not sure. I'm not sure how that conversation would go. Yeah, then maybe that's a problem.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. But, yeah, so if you feel uncomfortable with it, if you feel like your partner would be uncomfortable with it, then, yeah, I think that that's probably something to. To stop doing, to take a look at.

[Xander Marin]

All right, Vanessa, let's get down and dirty. What's a breeding kink?

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, okay. So breeding kink is when you get turned on about the idea of impregnating your partner. It's typically men that have it about impregnating women. I actually. I don't know if I've ever heard of a woman having a breeding kink about herself getting pregnant. Probably because women know, like, how.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know. I'm sure.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'm sure there's somebody out there. But it's much more common for men to have breeding kinks than for women. We'll say that.

[Xander Marin]

So I feel like what this is really getting at is, like, you're getting off on your own virility.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it can be. For some. Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, yeah. I'm so fertile, it spread my seed.

[Vanessa Marin]

But again, like, because this is a fantasy, like, some people. Okay, some people genuinely, like, want to get their partner pregnant. Like, we've heard people talk before about, like, oh, it gets me, like, super excited, like, knocking my wife up. But with other people, it's just the fantasy of it. You don't actually want to get your partner pregnant. You might even be taking active steps to make sure it doesn't happen. But it's just the idea of getting your partner pregnant that feels very exciting.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I think it's. It's a different thing if you're like, I really want to be a dad. Like, I'd really like to get you. I'd really like for us to get pregnant. That's not. That's not a breeding kink or a fantasy. It's more. It's more like, oh, oh, man, we got. We got enough kids. But. But wouldn't it be hot to have more? Just kidding. Jk, jk, jk.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, just imagine all these, like, wannabe dads out there being like, oh, my.

[Xander Marin]

God, oh my God, I have a kink.

[Vanessa Marin]

You can want to get your partner knocked up and it not be a.

[Xander Marin]

Kink that, you know that. That's like, yeah, we're. We're kink shaming you out of. We're kink shaming you into being child free.

[Vanessa Marin]

No kink shaming.

[Xander Marin]

That's. That's the secret Vanessa and Xander agenda.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, my God. Don't even joke about that because some people are gonna think that you're being honest.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, God. Yeah. Someone. Someone's gonna be like, they. It slip. They let it slip.

[Vanessa Marin]

Thanks, babe. Okay. Yeah. So that's all that breeding kink is. Yeah, it's the idea of being procreating, of spreading your seed, of passing on your legacy. It's the turn on to some people. Okay, here's another question that we got. Why do I have the fantasy to go to a sex club and only have sex with my wife? I don't wanna switch with other partners, and I don't wanna be the main attraction. I just wanna be intimate in a dimly lit room while others do the same.

[Xander Marin]

Hey, this is a really interesting one because before you read the last sentence, I was gonna say, oh, well, I mean, it sounds like you really want to be monogamous, but you get off on the idea that, like, people might see you guys having sex, but that actually doesn't seem to be the case.

[Vanessa Marin]

You just want to be around. So what do you think? Why does this. Why do they have the fantasy?

[Xander Marin]

You know? So I think that I feel like this is sort of like a. Like this feels like a really healthy fantasy in a lot of ways. Like, I feel like it's like maybe your brain trying to get over some crappy conditioning around, like, sex is bad or evil. It's like, I just want to, like, be around people that are, like, comfortable having sex. Like, sex is. It's like your subconscious being like, yeah, sex is a normal thing. Sex is a normal thing. We're all having sex. Let's do it in front of each other. But we're not looking.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, but maybe.

[Xander Marin]

But maybe we are looking just a little bit.

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't want to put the label, like, healthy or unhealthy on. On fantasies. But, I mean, there's nothing wrong with your brain.

[Xander Marin]

Maybe it's like a protective mechanism. Your brain is like, you know what? Maybe you had a little bit of, you know, maybe you had some kind of puritanical trauma around sex, and I want to help you just feel really open and comfortable with your sexuality.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, this is totally normal. I mean, I think some people get turned on by sex clubs because feel a little naughty, and it's like, ooh, people. You know, we don't often have sex with other people around, so there's something that feels a little taboo or forbidden about that. And, yeah, going to a sex club doesn't mean that you want to be, like, an exhibitionist or a voyeur. Exhibitionist is when you want people looking at you. Voyeur is when you get turned on looking at other people. But, yeah, like, you don't need to be the main attraction. You don't need to switch out with other partners. Like, it's a. Yeah, it's a common, totally okay fantasy, and if you want to do it, you totally could do it.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. I mean, honestly, this feels almost just like a little step up from like. Like public sex, where it's like, most people that are into public sex don't want to actually have, like, a hundred people see them having sex. Like, they're getting off on the idea that maybe, just maybe, somebody might see or somebody might wonder, oh, are those people having sex? And I think that this might be the same where it's like, yeah, you're saying I don't want to be the main attraction. But just because you're not the main attraction doesn't mean, like, somebody might see or other people are having sex around you and know that you are also having sex. So I think it's just might be just a mild, like, oh, yeah, that would be kind of hot for, like, you know, a couple other people to, like, know or maybe, like, glance in my. Or see some shapes moving in a dimly lit room and be like, oh, yeah, that person is having sex, whoever that person is, because I can't really tell who they are.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

It is for a whole variety of reasons.

[Vanessa Marin]

For many reasons, we really want our bed to feel like a sanctuary, to feel like our safe place. It's just the ultimate in comfort, luxury. Like, who doesn't want to feel good in your bed? I think for so many of us, our bed is like our safe place. Right. So that's why we absolutely love cozy ear. And they're bamboo sheets. These sheets are temperature regulating, guaranteed to give you a comfortable night's sleep. They're made from viscose from bamboo, so they naturally wick away heat and moisture from your body, helping you sleep several degrees cooler. And they are some of the softest sheets your body will ever touch. They're very soft initially, but wash them a few times and oh my God, it is next level softness.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. You will not want to get out of your bed for whatever reason and that's great. I think the more time, the more time, as you know from listening to this podcast, the more time you spend in bed with your partner, the better your relationship will be.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

Absolutely should give it a try.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

No, it's not fair. Yes, I can understand why he felt that way because I mean, it just gets back to like the social conditioning, like the way that we, I think that we, we have this kind of unfair and unhealthy social conditioning that like, like the only way for men to be straight is to only be into women. But like women, women are like, well, women are flexible. Like straight women like dick. But like they're also into. But like women also turn them on. And it's like, so it's like that's okay. It's also like very much okay for men to be like, to like be into like lesbian porn and stuff like that. And then on top of that, like all the threesome scenes that we see on TV and in the movies and we read about in books, it's always mff, like male, female, female. Right? And so I think that this so often happens where it's like, yeah, when that gets suggested to a woman, they're like, oh yeah, that would be hot. Like it would be super hot to like do a threesome. Like me and two men. It would be hot to do a threesome with, you know, with you and another woman and the guy's like, what the hell? Like, why, like what, you want me to like be with another dick? But I think the reality is that most men have just never considered that because it's not really socially acceptable. Which is kind of ironic because I think that there's like a lot of, like, porn where that happens, but it's like, the guys are never, like, doing anything together. So I don't know, man. But it's just like, the way that we are kind of conditioned with this is. Is kind of restrictive for guys. So I think that, you know, it's like, if you're a guy and you're like. And you really want to have a threesome, I think that you should be open to the idea that, like, hey, there are other ways to do a threesome than just you and, you know, and two other women.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay? So I do think that this situation is very hypocritical. I'm going to assume here that these two are both straight. So I can understand the husband's perspective that bringing in another woman feels less threatening to him. Cause it's like, yeah, this is just gonna be one night of fun. But my wife isn't attracted to women, so it's like, whatever. Versus a man can feel a little scarier. Like, you know, maybe she's gonna be attracted to him. Maybe she's gonna enjoy sex with him better. Maybe he's gonna have a bigger dick than I do, or he fucks her better. Like, a lot of stuff can come up. So I could understand the, you know, feeling safer having a woman in there. But at the same time, he has to recognize that that makes for a different scenario for him. Like, so then he's having sex with another woman and he's putting his wife in the exact same scenario that he doesn't want to be put in.

[Xander Marin]

Yep.

[Vanessa Marin]

So it's hypocritical from that sense. And this is one of the things that, like, makes threesomes very difficult in reality, where you're like, it's so hard to imagine this other person. But then you get down to the nitty gritty of, like, okay, but who's the one that's going to feel more vulnerable? So the fact that he got mad about it for, like, a couple of days, it's like, oh, my God, bro, get over it. But again, I do understand the desire for it to be female. Female, male.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. I mean, I think what's really not fair is that, like, he's upset probably because he's like, oh, well, like, what? Like, what, do you think I'm gay or something? And it's like, well, do, like.

[Vanessa Marin]

No, I don't know if it necessarily was that. She didn't say anything about that. She just said he was mad at the idea of me wanting another man in the bedroom. Bedroom.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, why can't. Yeah. Then why can't she say, like, well, but you want another woman in the bedroom. Why can't I be mad at you about that? Like, it's. You guys should not have a threesome. Yeah, you're abundantly clear by now. You should not have a threesome.

[Xander Marin]

Okay, what about this one? My boyfriend, 26, has enjoyed receiving anal play for quite some time. However, in the last several months, this has started to constantly pop up during sex. No matter what type of mood we're in going into it, it. When we do butt play, he likes to call me mistress and wants to serve me. He wants to wear my panties and be my dirty, sissy slut. I want to make him feel good. And I've never had an issue with the butt play. I've tried to step into the fem dom role and accept and play with these things, but it makes me feel rather uncomfortable. I don't like to call him a slut because he's not one. I know it's just play, but still, it makes me uncomfortable that he wants to wear my panties. I know there's nothing wrong with this that he wants. He wants to wear my chonies.

[Vanessa Marin]

I hate the word panties.

[Xander Marin]

Is that better, babe? I know there's nothing wrong with this, but I still can't fight the feeling. Our sex life is great and he treats me like a princess and would do anything to please me, and I just want to be able to fulfill this fantasy for him. Would love any advice or tips.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, there's a lot going on here. So it sounds like the first issue that she's bringing up is that he's wanting to do the, like, do anal play every single time. And maybe she's more of a, like, I'm down for it, but maybe not every single time. So that might. That would be probably the first place that I would start. I mean, first, actually, I want to say you sound like a great partner. Like, you really want to. You're going for it. You really want him to be pleased. You're not shaming him, but you're just trying to navigate your own boundaries and comfort levels around this and that. That is a very common thing that comes up. And I think that you're doing this beautifully. You're not saying, like, it's so gross that he wants it. What's wrong with him that he wants us every time. You're just acknowledging, like, hey, I want to bring him pleasure. I want him to feel fulfilled. And I'm trying to figure out what my own Boundaries are around this year, and you get to have your boundaries. That doesn't make you kink shaming. That doesn't make you a bad partner.

[Xander Marin]

Like.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, you're just your own person with your own interests and comfort. Again, it, like, goes back to the food thing. You know, you're like. Let's say the two of you are deciding what to have for dinner. It's like, right now it sounds like he's deciding what you're having for dinner every night. And you are in this place of like, well, but maybe I want pasta tonight. Or, like, we haven't had pizza in a long time, so, like, it's okay for you to be involved in these decisions too. Okay, so first one is anal play. Every single time. Maybe I would say something to him like, hey, I love, like, giving you anal play. I think it's really fun. I would also love for us to have, like, some nights where we don't do that. So, you know, maybe we can talk about, like, when I'm open to it and when I'm not open to it.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, we're actually. We have a question that. Where we'll talk about sort of like, you know, should you schedule king? So this, to me feels like, yeah, definitely a situation where. Where yeah. Some talk in advance or even like, pre scheduling, because this honestly sounds a bit more like a scene he's wanting you to play out, a sort of specific scene where you call him certain names, he does certain things, and I think that it would be very fair of you to describe. Hey, I feel challenged to make this switch in the moment, and I'm not prepared for it. This feels like you want me to be a femdom. Like, I need to be prepared for that. I need to be prepared energetically for that. I need to know that it's coming. I need to get myself into that energy. Because I think that what you are really struggling with is, like, in the moment, you're getting put on the spot.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

And you're. And that doesn't feel good for you. And that is totally fair. That's. That is totally fair.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. Then you're also calling out, like, there's a couple things. Like, he likes to call you mistress, he wants to wear your panties, and he wants to be your dirty little sissy slut. And it sounds like you don't like those three specific things, especially the word slut. Yeah. So again, this is an issue of you being able to navigate your own boundaries. There are tons of ways to play or to do anal play. That don't need to involve those three things. So to me, it sounds like you have explored this a lot. You've given it a lot of opportunities, a lot of chances. We usually encourage people to, like, try things a few times because you can't really know for a lot of stuff, you know, you might not necessarily know right away whether you like it or not, and especially if it's something that's like a little out of your wheelhouse. But it sounds to me like you've done plenty of exploring. And if you're saying, like, I don't want to be called mistress, I don't want him to wear my panties, and I don't want to call him a slut, like, I think those are very reasonable boundaries to set with him.

[Xander Marin]

I'm not.

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't want anyone wearing my panties. So I get it. I don't have panties, though.

[Xander Marin]

I know I might. My underwear, I might rip them. But no, I. I mean, I definitely stretch them out. They wouldn't be super wearable afterwards.

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't know. I have a much bigger butt than you do.

[Xander Marin]

That's true. But I have a bigger waist on. Well, but look, I don't like, I don't see. I don't really see her saying that she's not into the, like the mistress thing or the. Or the sissy part.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'm trying to step into the femme dom role, but it makes me rather uncomfortable. Uncomfortable?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, but I think that's more of like that. That's like sort of the energetic thing is like, you know, I'm curious if you had. Hey, I know on Friday we're doing femdom thing and I'm, you know, let me kind of get in that. Get in that mode. I wonder, I wonder if that might help you. And you know, I'm not going to be surprised in the moment. Hey, we're having Tuesday night sex. I know that I'm like, the script isn't going to get flipped on me in the middle of things. Like, I think I'm. We're doing it a certain way and all of a sudden he's asking else. But my, my. The question that came up for me that I thought was interesting here is the, the. I don't want to call him a slut because he isn't one. I wonder if, I wonder if there's something behind that for. Something for you to come to terms with, because I wonder if you are looking at this like that word feels really negatively charged to me as a woman. I wouldn't want to be called a slut because I'm not one him. Therefore, I don't want to call him. He's literally saying, this would turn me the. On if you call me this. This thing that I know that I am not, that I'm not, like, going to feel bad about my. It's like, it's going to make him feel the opposite of bad about himself. It's going to make him feel really, like, hot and desired and dirty in a. In a hot, sexy way for him. So I wonder if there's anything for you to come to terms with there. I'm not telling you you need to call him a slight slut, but it's. It's. It's interesting that the way that you're saying is I don't want to call him that because he's not one. I think he knows that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

And if you talk to him about that, he'd be like, yeah, I. Yeah, I'm not a. Like, you know, it's just. It's just you and me here. It's just. This is something that would really turn me on.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. I think that would be a good conversation to have outside of the bedroom is just talk about that specific word. Tell him whatever, you know, history you have around that word, whatever feels challenging for you around it, and hear what he says about it, why he likes it, why it doesn't feel like an insult for him. So maybe if you have that conversation outside of the bedroom, that might change things. But again, ultimately, if you're still landing on. I just don't feel comfortable using that word. That's a very valid boundary that you get to draw. So could the two of you get creative and think of something else? Like, is it different? Dirty boy, playboy. I don't know.

[Xander Marin]

Promiscuous man. You promiscuous.

[Vanessa Marin]

And same with mistress. Like, is there a different word that conveys some of that same energy that you would feel more comfortable with?

[Xander Marin]

Great suggestion.

[Vanessa Marin]

And maybe buy him some of his own panties to wear that maybe you.

[Xander Marin]

Could, like, wear them every now and then so that they, you know, I think. Yeah. So that, you know, he can kind of live out the actual fantasy of it. You could, if you want to, you could buy some larger ones that might fit him better. Just, like, sleep in them one night.

[Vanessa Marin]

Walking around wearing big old droopy panties that are falling down. If you're loving the podcast and wondering, okay, but how do I actually put this into practice in my relationship?

[Xander Marin]

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[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

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[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

And oh yeah, vanessaai is there too your personal on demand sex and relationship coach that is trained on everything, literally everything that we've ever created. So ask her anything and get instant expert backed answer.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

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[Vanessa Marin]

Here'S our next question discussing role reversal, pegging and butt stuff for me, straight male with wife who isn't on board. How do we have the conversation in a non judgmental way, thinking I'm gay or bi when I know I'm not? Not that there's anything wrong with that. And ways to explore solo while still being monogamous and not hiding it if it's still a no from her. Subject has been mentioned but didn't go well. The way that people write their questions sometimes cracks me up so much. Yeah, subject has been mentioned. Okay, so they've talked about it. It didn't go well.

[Xander Marin]

I feel sorry for this guy. That's a really sad, that's a sad conversation to have. And I mean it's like a very polarizing situation to be in when it's like your partner is trying to tell you something about who you are and you know that to not be true like a very fundamental part of you and to not be seen in that is messed up.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

And it sucks.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yep. Yeah. So let's, let's start there. There is still this dumb old outdated belief that men enjoying receiving any sort of butt play means that, that they're secretly gay or bi because people that.

[Xander Marin]

Are gay like having their butt touched.

[Vanessa Marin]

It'S just so dumb. So yeah, okay, if, if, if we say, well, gay people play with butts. So therefore if you're playing with butts, that means you're gay. You know what else gay people play with?

[Xander Marin]

Probably Even more. Probably even more than butts. I guarantee you that gay people play with penises. They touch them, they put their mouth on them a hell of a lot more than butts.

[Vanessa Marin]

But is anybody saying, oh, you, bro, you like a blow job. You're G. That's okay.

[Xander Marin]

Yo, she jacked you off. That sounds like basically could have been a guy doing it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Are you sure it wasn't, bro?

[Xander Marin]

You let her touch your dick. That could have been me.

[Vanessa Marin]

It literally makes no sense.

[Xander Marin]

If your eyes were closed, it would be the same as me doing it. That's a fantasy right there. Now, that could be a king. Who's touching your dick?

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't know.

[Xander Marin]

Whose mouth is it? Better not open your eyes. Oh, man.

[Vanessa Marin]

There's that aspect of it. There's also, like, your orientation is, first of all, you and only you get to define your orientation. And your orientation is defined by the people that you want to have so sex with, not by the body parts that you enjoy being stimulated. The reality is that the anus has a ton of nerve endings. It is very sensitive. And people of all genders, of all orientations, all likes and dislikes, like, people enjoy feeling the sensation there. And just feeling sensation in a part of your body doesn't make you secretly bi or secretly gay. It just means you have. Have a functioning brain that registers that you have nerve endings in a part of your body. Okay? So, yes, we are doing men a disservice by, like, having so much taboo around this. Like, there's really nothing about enjoying butt stuff that says anything about your sexuality. So let's go back to this guy, though. He's brought it up. It didn't go well. We don't know exactly how or why, but I would. I would bring it up again, maybe ask to listen to this episode together or talk about, like, kind of approach her and say, like, hey, you know, I want to talk. I want us to be able to talk about our sex life. I want us to be able to make space for each other's interests and desires. And regardless of whether or not we want to do certain things, I want us both to feel like we respect and acknowledge and validate each other's desires. So she gets to have her own boundaries. If she's like, I don't want to peg you, she doesn't have to, but she does need to show him, like, kindness and respect about it.

[Xander Marin]

I think it's also very, very fair for you to set a really clear boundary, too, that I am not open to you telling me what My sexuality, inferring anything about my sexuality based on my interest, my sexuality is mine. Is for me to disclose and identify. And I'm telling you, like I've told you, I'm straight. I am straight. I am not open to you passing any judgment on my sexuality. If that's something that you are not able to do, then this, like, we may not be able to be in a relationship together. We need to get into therapy to talk about this. Because this is like a real fundamental, a really fundamental misalignment that won't go away. It will only get worse in your relationship. And, and yeah, I hate to say this, but it's like if you do have a partner that is really set in her ways in terms of that's the way that she is going to think about this, then I don't think there really is a way forward with that person.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oof. I mean.

[Xander Marin]

But I think a lot of people can change this mindset once they better understand. And I think that it's really important for them to hear you set a really clear boundary. I am not like this, I am not open to this being up for discuss. If this, if this topic, if you do bring this up for discussion, I'm removing myself from the conversation. I'm not willing to have it with you.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, okay. So, yeah, I would initiate the conversation in that way. I would, I would. Since it hasn't gone well before, I wouldn't even bring up the idea of trying these things in this first conversation. I would just bring up the idea of like, I want us to be able to respect each other's desires and interest, interests. So just try to start on that level. If that conversation goes well, then have a separate conversation about, okay, here are my desires and curiosities and interests. I respect your right to have your own boundaries. And I would just love us to have a conversation about what feels okay for you. So it doesn't need to be that she's super turned on by it or it's totally her thing. But like the vibe of that question earlier with the. A sissy slut, you know, where like she was very clearly, like, I, yeah, this isn't my thing. But like, I want you to feel good and fulfilled. Like, I think, I think that's a, that's how we should all be with our partners. Like, have this level of, of generosity and openness again, we get to have our own boundaries. But where we're coming from, this place of, like, I respect your desires, I want to be a good partner to you. I want to do what I can within the realms of my own comfort levels. So sometimes I think people feel hesitant to explore with their partners because they're like, well, that. I'm not into it. That's not my thing. You. And it's like, you don't have to be turned on by it.

[Xander Marin]

It's my thing. It's not your thing.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it's okay for it to be like, I am giving this to you. Tonight is a little bit more about your desires, and then tomorrow night's gonna be a little bit more about my desires. There can be this give and take within our comfort levels. So then let's say, like, if she's just not open to doing any of it, which is totally her right, that's okay. If she doesn't want to. I would give this guy the advice to explore with toys. Toys. There are plenty of great toys that you can play with. Like, different vibrators, different butt plugs that you can do completely on your own and get to have that sensation.

[Xander Marin]

But I do think that it would probably be a good idea for you to have the conversation with your partner and say, hey, this is something that I want to explore on my own. Because, you know, because you're asking, like, is it okay to explore solo? And I think you're saying, you know, like, you don't want to be hiding it from her if it's a no from her. Because, yeah, it's like, if. If you are getting to the point where she's like, yeah, I just, like, don't think that you're really straight if you're into this. And then you're like, okay, cool, well, then we won't do that, but I'm secretly going to go do it on my own. Like, you know, like, if she finds the toys or she catches you, that ratchets the situation up a whole, you know, in a whole other way. It's like, I think you got to rip the band aid off. And, you know, even if she's like, no, I'm totally not open to this, then it's like, you know, because I think what you're. What you're saying behind the scenes here is this feels like a really central part of my sexuality, and I need to explore it. Yeah, I'm. I am open to exploring this on my. I want to explore this with or without you. I don't hear you saying, yeah, I would really like to be able to explore this, but if. If we can't, then I can live with it. You did not say that in the question?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

I think what you're saying is, I. I will need to explore this with or without my wife. And so I do think that you need to have that conversation where you're basically saying, okay, cool, I totally respect that you're a no here. This feels like something that's really central to me. How would you. You know, I want to know how you would feel in advance about me exploring this, because that's something that I. I feel like I really need to do. And I wouldn't present it to her as, like, you get to tell me yes or no. Like, I think you kind of got to tell her. This is something that I. I really feel called to explore. It feels central to who I am. And I want to know how you would feel about that, because if you don't feel good about that, then we need to have some broader discussions about what that means for our relationship. Please don't punt this, like, so many people end up doing where it's like, okay, well, they said no, but they didn't say, I couldn't do it on my own, because it's just gonna get worse when inevitably somebody says something or finds something or whatever.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, and let's close this out. I just wanna read this quick one. I'd like to experiment with wearing some traditionally female lingerie and makeup, like fishnets and mascara. I've done this solo, and it's really fun for me. I don't feel broken. I'm very confident in who I am. I just don't wanna be the partner that I asks something ridiculous. So I just want to say to this person, go, you. I love that you know that you're not broken. You're confident in who you are and what you like. It is totally cool.

[Xander Marin]

You're probably super hot in fishnets and mascara.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's actually shockingly common how much men enjoy playing around with some of these, you know, traditionally female things.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. Gender bending was one of the most common things in the world.

[Vanessa Marin]

Very, very common. So it was interesting that the. That he ends the sentence with like, I just don't want to be the partner that asks something ridiculous. Like, you already know you're confident. You're not broken. Like, it's okay.

[Xander Marin]

You. I mean, you could even play without language. You could be like, hey, you know what? I'm a little worried that this might sound ridiculous to you. To me, I love this. And so I just want to shoot my shot. Yeah, I feel great. I feel great about this. I love it. I've done this on my own. And, um, how do you feel about this? Yeah, I think you. You lead with the confidence and the. Your own confidence that you already have in it that will be visible to your partner. But if you go into it, oh, God, I'm really nervous to talk to you about this thing. I have this really ridiculous fantasy. You're already. You're already, like, lowering the bar for them or raising the bar. Oh, God. You're already making it easier for them to be like, oh, well, they're saying, like, they're already giving me out. Oh, yeah, that is ridiculous. Or like, oh, well, it seems like you're not really sure about this, so I'm not really sure either. Like, you're. You're giving them out after out after out. But if you go into it and it's like, yeah, this is fucking hot. I'm into it. Like, let's fucking go. I think it'll go over better.

[Vanessa Marin]

All right, well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening, and join us again next week. We have a topic that I am so excited about. I actually thought that that was what we were recording today, and then I was like, no, it's going to be a fun one.

[Xander Marin]

This was a good one, too, though.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it was. All right. We release new episodes every Thursday, so we'll see you back here next Thursday.