Vanessa Marin (2:43)

And then the third category is women who are telling their partner not to focus on their orgasm. Like, it's okay, I'm fine. It's not a big deal. Like, you just do your thing. So you're really putting the, you know, the attention and energy on your partner, telling them, like, yeah, just leave me alone. I'm good. It's cool.

Xander Marin (3:03)

And it might have been cool at some point in time, but we will talk about how ultimately, like, this one is sort of in between the other two. Like, it's not an outright lie. It's not. Not doing anything, but it's somewhere in the middle.

Vanessa Marin (3:16)

So in this episode, we're going to walk through if you're in one of these three scenarios, how you might have landed there in the first place, and then, most importantly, how to get yourself out of that situation and start having real pleasure and real orgasms with your partner. Now, this top is a really personal one for me. I love talking about this because I struggled with my own orgasm for a very long time. You know, people always think, like, oh, you're a sex therapist. You guys have this business together. Like, you must have the perfect sex life. You must have everything figured out. And it's really important to me to be honest about the fact that I absolutely didn't. So I. My history with orgasm is that I learned how to orgasm on my own, but I really struggled to get there with a partner. I could not get there with a partner. And that was super confusing to me. It just felt like, how is. How is it possible in one scenario but not in other scenarios later? It did become very obvious to me, but at the time, I just really felt like something was horribly wrong with me. And I struggled with so many of the feelings that, you know, women who struggle with orgasm go through. Like, you feel like there's something horribly wrong with you. You feel like, I must be the only woman in the world who is struggling with this, even though your brain rationally knows, like, there's. I can't be, like, the one and only person on this entire planet that's going through this. You feel that way. It feels like, oh, my God, I'm really the only person.

Xander Marin (4:55)

Like, I couldn't possibly tell anyone. Everyone else is having great orgasms all the time.

Vanessa Marin (4:59)

Yeah. And I do think, you know, I heard from when I became a sex therapist and I started working. I'm kind of skipping ahead for a second, but when I started working with women, their orgasm struggles. That's What I would hear all the time. It's like, you know, we've come a long way in terms of. Now people talk about sex, you know, more openly with our friends, but in. In a weird, funny, like, kind of backwards way, it actually makes struggling with your orgasm more embarrassing because you're, like, you know, out at lunch or brunch with your friends, and you're all talking about, like, the hot sex that you had last night. And it feels even more embarrassing to say, like, oh, yeah, like, actually not me.

Xander Marin (5:37)

I mean, it's interesting. It just gave me the thought of, you know, I feel like if we trace it back, it's almost like. Like, Sex and the City almost gave us permission of, like, oh, yeah. Now, like, we talk about this, but the problem is we talk about it in kind of like a braggadocious way. Right?

Vanessa Marin (5:53)

Like it's braggadocious. Yeah.

Xander Marin (5:55)

You like that I'm busting out the SAT words. I mean, I was. God, I was like, very much in school and SAT era, when Sex and the City was on. Right. I actually don't even know what year Sex in the City on, but it was definitely during that time. But I think that's the thing, is that, you know, I think men have always talked about sex in a very braggy sort of way. Braggadocious means braggy. All those of you who are hearing that word for the first time, I think it's a great word, but it's also, like, you could just say braggy. So it's a kind of braggadocious way to say that. You know, a word. Anyway, you know, I think men have always bragged about sex, and that's always been a part of the male experience a long way back. But I think that this has only more recently become an element of the female experience. And the problem is that, yeah, a lot of those conversations are highlighting the highlights and minimizing the lowlights and definitely not talking about the struggles. It's the wanting to seem like you have it all together. And I think that's a very human experience. We talk to each other. We all want to seem capable. We all want to seem like we know what we're doing. And in sacrifice, especially when it's sort of a taboo topic, we definitely want to know exactly what we're doing. And so, you know, I think that's the problem is, like, you know, you're sitting at brunch with the girls, and everyone's talking about, oh, my God, the sex was so hot, and that you're just assuming, oh, my God, she just must be having a ton of orgasms. And I'm not, right?

Vanessa Marin (7:20)

Well, I mean, a lot of times they were just even directly saying, like, oh, I came, like, three times last night or something, you know, and you just feel really embarrassed about having to say, like, oh, I actually don't know how to get there. Or I have. You know, I haven't ever gotten there with a partner. Okay. Looping back to, like, the feelings that come up around it. You know, there's feeling like there's something horribly wrong with you or broken with your body. There's, of course, like. Yeah, what I was saying, feeling like you're the only one going through this. It feels really shameful. Like something that you can't tell anybody that you're going through. It's confusing. You know, for me, it was really confusing being able to on my own, but not with a partner, but for other women. Like, if you've never had an orgasm or you just can't get there reliably, it's this sort of, like, what does my body need? I don't get it. Like, it just feels very difficult. And, yeah, of course, like, extremely embarrassing to talk about with a partner. Most people just don't, like, absolutely do not want to have to. So, yeah, I really empathize with how challenging this can feel. So for me, the option that I ended up going with of the three was faking orgasm. Because for me, I wanted to make it seem like there was good chemistry in my relationships, and I wanted a lot of it was honestly for my male partners, like, for my boyfriends, wanting them to feel like they were good in bed. And, you know, I don't want to hurt his fragile male ego and, you know, make him feel like this is his fault when it's my fault. I'm the one who's broken. So I really felt like I had to protect my partners. And it felt. Yeah, faking for me felt, I guess, like, sexier in a way. I mean, it obviously was, like, totally performative, but it felt better for me than just, like, not doing anything or just saying, like, I'm fine. I don't need anything.

Xander Marin (9:13)

Did you ever think, like, okay, well, I'm gonna. I'm gonna start faking, and eventually I'll figure this out. So then I'll kind of be able to like, slide into. Yeah. Into. Into. You know, this will just become reality?

Vanessa Marin (9:26)

Yeah. I mean, when I really think back, it's so sad because, you know, I faked my very first experience. I think it was already. And it's hard to imagine, you know, like, wow, was that already ingrained in the back of my head that, like, must have been. I needed to just, you know, if it wasn't happening, I needed to fake it. Like, it clearly was. You know, I had that inclination, and that's what I did.

Xander Marin (9:49)

I mean, it's interesting because I feel like the first experience is almost one where most women. I feel like the way we talk about sex almost have permission to not really enjoy the first time because I feel like a lot of it is, yeah, it might hurt the first time, but it'll get better and better.

Vanessa Marin (10:03)

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how that had already wormed its way into my head. But I started faking from the very beginning. And I think, yeah, at the beginning, I did think, oh, it'll happen, and then it's fine. Then I can stop the faking and I'll just be having the real ones. But the longer that time went on and having other partners and starting to realize, oh, this is not happening, then that started to feel really scary. And it felt like I was just trapped in the cycle of faking. Like, how do you stop faking with somebody once you already have been faking and you're in a long relationship with them? We will talk about that a little bit later in this episode. And then as I. For me, the added wrinkle was as I'm starting to realize I want to be a sex therapist. I'm starting to train in this field. I'm starting to do internships and research and all of that. Like, I'm still going through this. So there was this added layer of feeling like a complete and utter imposter. You know, here I am, like, thinking, I'm going to be this amazing sex therapist and help people with their sex lives, and I'm still faking my orgasms in my own sex life. So that was really, like, really difficult for me to go through. But at the same time, I felt totally trapped. Like, it's not happening. I don't know what to do to make it happen. And, you know, I'm starting to do all this education and training in this field, and I wasn't finding any genuinely useful advice about how to make it happen. So I saw the exact same advice that any woman who has ever struggled with her orgasm has seen. Just relax, don't think about it. Just let it happen, or have a glass of wine. I tried all three of those things, and they absolutely did not work. Like, you can't just don't think about it into, like, think. You can't not think your way into something happening.

Xander Marin (12:03)

It's like, just have an orgasm.

Vanessa Marin (12:05)

Yeah. That's basically all the advice.

Xander Marin (12:07)

Like, just come already. What's wrong with you?

Vanessa Marin (12:09)

Yeah. And honestly, the advice made me feel worse because it was so simple. It was like, you just have to stop thinking about it. And I'm like, okay, well, I am trying to stop thinking about it, but it's still not happening. So, like, it made me feel like.

Xander Marin (12:22)

But I'm also thinking about faking too.

Vanessa Marin (12:23)

It made me feel like something's really wrong. If like, the advice is literally so simple, simple, stop thinking about it. Just relax. But yet that's not working for me. So now I must be really. If it's not, you know, happening for me. I am so excited to be partnering with Quince again because they are one of my personal favorite brands that I have bought so many things from with our own money. If you've never heard of Quince before, they make everyday essentials with quality that lasts. They make incredible clothing, but they've really branched out with a lot of other products too. Now they have home goods, they even have furniture, skin care items that everything is really built to hold up to daily wear. But they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production, which we love. I actually just bought a maternity set from Quince for my sister. She just gave birth and I wanted to find her some clothes that were like, cute and cozy, but she still felt kind of pulled together. And I immediately just like Quince. I'm sure Quince will have something. And sure enough, there are, like a couple of really cute sets. The prices are incredible. I mean, this is one of the best things about Quint. So I was able to get her a couple of really cute things. So I seriously cannot highly recommend checking out Quints enough. Refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.compillow for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com pillow for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/pillow. So, yeah, this advice just left me feeling even worse. And, you know, I really did look so hard in so many different places trying to find something that was more detailed, more specific, and even in my, like, sex therapy textbooks that I was starting to read, the most that I ever found was. So I did find advice about, like, you have to learn your own body, but just Play around and, like, try different things. And I was like, okay, sure, I can do that. Because I already, you know, I already am doing that on my own. But, like, what different things should I be trying?

Xander Marin (14:46)

Yeah, especially if it's not translating what you know. On your own.

Vanessa Marin (14:50)

Yeah. I mean, it was just so vague. Like, just, you know, experiment.

Xander Marin (14:53)

Explore.

Vanessa Marin (14:54)

Explore your body. And I was like, okay, but like, how.

Xander Marin (14:57)

Imagine if, like, imagine if you are trying to learn. I don't. Like, you're trying to learn a sport or something. And, you know, you go to take a lesson, and halfway into your lesson, your co. Your like, coach or teacher or whatever goes, okay, now just, like, play around.

Vanessa Marin (15:17)

Just try some things.

Xander Marin (15:18)

Try some things. Yeah. Like, I've taught you the rules of the game. Now just try some stuff.

Vanessa Marin (15:23)

But I didn't even have the rules of the game. It was literally like showing up at the lesson and they're. It's like the sport that you've never, like. It'd be like showing up at a cricket lesson and they're like, just explore.

Xander Marin (15:34)

Yeah. They're like, we brought you to the pitch. You're on the cricket pitch.

Vanessa Marin (15:38)

I didn't even know that's what it's called.

Xander Marin (15:39)

That's what it's called. Do you know what a. I know nothing about cricket. Oh, no. I was about to. I was about to say a word that is actually related to croquet that I was say was part of cricket.

Vanessa Marin (15:52)

A wicked wicket.

Xander Marin (15:53)

No, there's no wickets in crickets. Oh, my God. Whatever. I don't know shit about cricket.

Vanessa Marin (15:59)

I know there's a ball of some sort and bases.

Xander Marin (16:02)

Yeah, I think there's only two. Like, you just go back and forth. It's not like a baseball, like, rounding the diamond. It's a wild. It's a wild sport. I don't know anything about it, so. But no, no, it's like. It's like Vanessa and I being like, we want to learn cricket. Let's go to a cricket lesson. And they're like, okay, cool. We'll pick you up at your house, take you to the cricket pitch. And you're like, all right, that's the lesson now. Have fun.

Vanessa Marin (16:26)

Yeah, it's. Yeah. So I really had to, like, muck my way through it. And I will be totally honest. There were plenty of times where I was just like, is faking really that bad? Like, maybe this is just the easier thing to do. Maybe my body just, like, can't get there with a partner. And I really almost gave up several times. But There were a couple of things that kept me going. One was resentment. Good old resentment.

Xander Marin (16:53)

Hey, it's a motivator.

Vanessa Marin (16:54)

You know, when I got, when I was in these long term relationships, like at the beginning, faking felt fine. It was just like, okay. It actually felt like a good thing. Like, it feels like we have this great chemistry, you know, my, the guy is like, wow, sex is so amazing with you. Like, we're so in sync. And I'm like, yeah, totally.

Xander Marin (17:11)

You're getting like positive emotional connection and validation that you're like, oh, this feels good. Like you might even be seeking. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, the pleasure, like, pleasure is great. I can do that on my own. But like, you're getting another type of pleasure, an emotional connection pleasure.

Vanessa Marin (17:28)

But then as the relationships went on, because I was like a serial relationship girly. As the relationships went on, then the resentment would start to creep in of, you are having this great experience. Not you, because it didn't happen with you, fortunately. But like, my boyfriend is having this great experience. He is loving it. He's so pleasured and satisfied and he

Xander Marin (17:48)

wants to keep doing it.

Vanessa Marin (17:49)

Yeah. And I'm not. And yeah, very slowly over time, I started to feel really resentful of that. And obviously, like, he had no idea what was going on. He thought things were great. So I really can't blame him. But I started to feel really resentful of my partners, of like, this sucks that you get to have a good experience and I don't. And I'm doing so much work to make you feel like I've had a great experience. Because that's the other thing about faking is like, it's so much work. I got really good at faking because for me it was like, well, I don't want to just, you know, I'm lying there, like quiet and silent. Then all of a sudden like, oh, I'm having an orgasm. It's like, I want to put on a good show.

Xander Marin (18:33)

Yeah, if you want to do it, you're going to do it.

Vanessa Marin (18:35)

I want it to seem realistic. Right. Like, I don't want him to know that I'm faking. So I would, you know, start moaning early in the beginning and I would think about like, okay, now I have to make my moaning more intense. And now maybe I need to like squirm around a little bit or like make my leg shake or, you know, all these little things that you can do. And so I started like at the beginning when I was faking it. It was just at the End. And I would. You know, I was getting some enjoyment and connection out of the rest of the experience. But as I got more into the faking and, like, you know, putting on more of the show, then it's like the whole experience is getting eaten up by, like, oh, I need to, like, escalate the moans a little bit now. Or, like, breathe deeper now. So it was truly, like, I was just completely disconnected from the experience and, like, not getting to have any, like, pleasure, connection, anything.

Xander Marin (19:25)

That sounds like really hard work.

Vanessa Marin (19:28)

It is. It's a ton of work.

Xander Marin (19:29)

I don't realize that. Yeah, I would not want to have a lot of or any sex if that was what it was like, oh, my God. And there's nothing in it for me at the end.

Vanessa Marin (19:40)

And then the other thing that kept me going was I had a really crappy experience faking with somebody that I was really into. We were, you know, just at the early stages of dating. Like, I really wanted to progress into a relationship, and he was using his hands on me, and I faked it and did my, like, great little performance. And he said this line that I will never forget, even though it's been like, 20 years, at this point, over 20 years, he said, I can play you like a fiddle. And that just.

Xander Marin (20:16)

Ugh.

Vanessa Marin (20:17)

The, like, feeling of disgust that I had in that moment of, like, not only did I totally fake everything, but, like, you are using this as this. Like, you're bragging about it and you're feeling so good about yourself. Like, even it's like, yes, I was always doing it to try to, like, protect my partner's egos and their feelings, but then to hear him, like, get egotistical about it, I was like, ugh, gross. I'm done with this. And I just made this vow to myself in that very moment, I am not faking ever again. I am not doing this.

Xander Marin (20:53)

Did you just break up with him right after that?

Vanessa Marin (20:56)

He ended up dumping me.

Xander Marin (20:59)

Did you stop. Did you. Did you, like, stop faking with him immediately after that, though? And he was like, oh, this girl is just.

Vanessa Marin (21:06)

That was the last time. He must have, like, picked up on something. I don't know. I was so into him. Yeah, no, he was. He was just done.

Xander Marin (21:13)

I wonder if. I wonder if any of these former lovers of yours never listen to this podcast.

Vanessa Marin (21:20)

I mean, I've told this story, but I've told this story, like, it's all

Xander Marin (21:24)

over the Internet on some pretty big stages.

Vanessa Marin (21:27)

I think I've told it, like, on Armchair Expert, and maybe, like, we can do hard things. Or Mel Robbins. So, I mean, he might have heard it. I. If you're listening, I hope you've learned better.

Xander Marin (21:38)

Stop playing the fiddle.

Vanessa Marin (21:40)

Stop playing the fiddle. Anyways, so I decided, yeah, I'm done with it. Of course, it's not like the orgasms just started magically happening. I still had no tools, no resources, so I really had to muck through it for quite some time. But eventually I figured out how to get there with a partner. And so that was. You know, I was a sex therapist at that time. I was. And so, you know, I started. Once I started seeing clients, I thought, okay, I need to, like, test out these things that I've learned on my own. Let me test them out with other people. Cause this is, like, my unique body that I've figured out how to get there. But are they gonna work with other women? So I took these techniques and I tested them out with my clients until I, you know, made sure, okay, this definite is working, like, really refined home things. And eventually that became Finishing School, which is our online course that teaches women how to have orgasms whenever they want one. It was, like, the first course of its kind. It got so many incredible reviews. Like, thousands of women have gone through it. It's been reviewed in major magazines and newspapers. Buzzfeed ended up calling me the orgasm whisperer. Like, we'll talk about that. But it was so meaningful to me to be able to turn this deeply personal and very embarrassing and shameful struggle into the solution for other women. Like, to be able to say, okay, I had to fucking muck through this on my own. It caused so much pain, so much stress, so much anxiety. So I don't want a single other woman to have to go through that feeling of, like, just relax. Just explore. Like, let me tell you exactly what to do and how to do it and when to do it and, you know, really lay it all out. So we'll tell you a little bit more about that in a bit. But let's kind of talk. Let's get away from my personal story and talk more broadly about how this shows up. So, Xander, why don't you tell us about the orgasm gap?

Xander Marin (23:58)

Yeah, So I think most people have heard this term. I think it is general knowledge that men typically have way more orgasms than women. There has been research on this. We've done our own research. In fact, we surveyed over 5,000 people in our audience to ask about this. And not only did you know, the. The general research that's out there is basically just like, what Percentage of women orgasm the last time they had sex, when that is definitely interesting information. Spoiler alert. Far more men than women had orgasms the last time they had sex. But we wanted to know more. So we asked, not just did you have an orgasm, but, like, how often do you actually orgasm? The interesting thing was only 29% of women said that they always have an orgasm versus 73% of men always having an orgasm. I think a lot of people even hear that 73% number, they go only 3/4 of men or having orgasm. But it's. It's always. So if a. You know, I personally, I would probably choose always if I was taking the survey, even though maybe like one in once a year or something, like, I have a little malfunction and nothing happens. But, you know, I think, you know, some men are, you know, most of the time, almost always. But, you know, this is still a huge difference. So it's a 44 gap gap. 62% of women said that their male partner orgasms more often than they do. So 6 out of 10, it is imbalanced in some form. Now, the really interesting thing is that men very overestimate, like, really overestimate how often they think their female partner is orgasming. So we just mentioned, you know, 29 of women say that they always orgasm. 62% of women are saying that their male partner orgasms a lot more than they do. Yet 87% of men, that's like 9, almost 9 out of 10 men think that their partner always or very often orgasms. And we know that that is not true from the survey data that we just discussed. And on the flip side, side, it's only 13% of men actually think that their partner rarely or never orgasms. And we know there are a lot more than 13% of women that are in that category.

Vanessa Marin (26:27)

Okay, so why are we not having orgasms? We asked women this question, and here were some of the answers that we heard. These are the most common answers. So we heard, I've never had an orgasm, like, period, or I've had them very rarely, very inconsistently. So the thought is, if I can't get there on my own, how am I supposed to get there with a partner if I've never had one? Like, I just don't even know where to start. I don't even know how to get there. Then there was also, there were other women who were in my situation of, like, what works on my own doesn't seem to work with a partner, or, like, I can get there on my own. But I can't get there with a partner. Sometimes that can be because you're using a specific technique. Maybe you're having your body in a certain position, or you're using a fantasy or a toy that you don't feel comfortable using with your partner. We heard a lot of, I feel like I don't deserve it. And that can come up for so many different reasons. Kind of similarly or related is like, I feel like I take too long or I feel uncomfortable being the center of attention. We did have. Some people said, my partner doesn't seem to care about my pleasure, which it was really tough to see. You know, some women saying, like, my partner just doesn't really make an effort to focus on me. They're just focused on their own pleasure. Some women were, like, they were a little bit unsure about it. Like, I can't quite tell. Like, just, you know, my partner doesn't seem to be doing anything. But I don't think it's necessarily malicious. But we did hear from some women who were like, yeah, no, my partner has, like. Has expressed that they are not interested in, you know, taking care of me and doing what I need, which is just awful to hear. Truly awful to hear. Okay, so let's get into those three categories that we mentioned earlier. So first up, we're gonna talk about faking orgasms. My old old faithful, reliable technique.

Xander Marin (28:22)

Your personal favorite. Yeah. Or least favorite. So when we've polled our audience, 72% of women say that they have faked orgasm. That's three out of four. Staggering, staggering numbers.

Vanessa Marin (28:36)

Honestly, I think that's low.

Xander Marin (28:38)

Yeah. So that's three out of four say that at some point in time, they have now. Now a solid quarter. 25% of women say that they have been faking for so long that they don't know how to stop. So a third of the fakers. A third of the people who have faked are still doing it and are literally, like, have buried themselves into a hole that they can't get out of.

Vanessa Marin (29:04)

So, like me, you know, a lot of women fake at the beginning of the relationship because it just. It often seems easier. You, like, you want it to seem like you have this amazing sexual chemistry. Like, things are just clicking between the two of you. You don't want to have to talk about it. Like, with somebody who's pretty new, you just, like. It's an awkward, uncomfortable conversation. So vulnerable. Yeah. So, like, getting started right at the beginning of a relationship often feels like the best option. But then we get stuck in that cycle of okay, well, I've started. How am I supposed to back myself out of it? But there are other reasons that women fake too. We. This was a really interesting one. When we asked women, like, tell us the specific reasons why you're faking. Number of women said, my partner insists that I orgasm. So I think this is a really interesting nuance for men to pay attention to. I think more men are becoming more aware of, hey, I want to be a good partner. I want to make sure my partner has a good time. I don't want her to feel like she has to fake with me. I don't want her to, you know, not enjoy sex. But they're over correcting and they're going to a different extreme of like, actually putting a ton of pressure on women. I'm not going to be satisfied unless you come. I'm not going to stop until you come. And it actually is creating. It's creating so much pressure that it's making it harder for us to come. Yeah.

Xander Marin (30:23)

She's like, I do want you to stop, so. So I will fake.

Vanessa Marin (30:26)

Yeah. We're also socialized as women to put other people's needs above our own and especially men's needs above our own. Like, faking feels like the nicer thing to do. Like I said, you know, before, like, I did this to protect my partner's ego. Like, I didn't want him to feel like he was doing a bad job. So it just feels like the kinder thing to do to just straight up fake, fake. Similarly, we're also socialized to believe that the man's experience during sex is more important than the woman's. Like, we had one woman wrote in and said to us, like, I thought that sex was supposed to be a performance for the man. Like, that's what she grew up being taught. And then another very common reason to fake is I just wanted sex to be over. I think, you know, most of us don't feel comfortable talking openly about sex and, and oftentimes, like, just faking the orgasm to, like, make the end of sex seem obvious, like, feels easier or it gives.

Xander Marin (31:25)

If you do it quick, it gives him permission to, like, oh, okay, I don't need to last any longer because I think a lot of guys are trying to draw it out because I think a lot of men know, hey, if I just have at it, I'm gonna come pretty fast. And I have this general idea that women take a little longer. And so I'm doing, you know, I'm trying to be a good guy by thinking about baseball and slowing things down. But. And that is you are being a good guy if your partner is genuinely, you know, if you guys are actually working together towards trying to help your partner do what is necessary to get your partner to have an orgasm. But if you're just doing that without actually talking about it and having a plan for what it is that you're trying to do, then, yeah, if the partner is faking it or the partner is not sure what they're like, you know, not sure what they need, then they're probably like, all right, well, like, let's wrap this up then. And then you gotta have this, you know, then you gotta fake quickly.

Vanessa Marin (32:24)

So the problems with faking, the most obvious one is you're not having a pleasurable experience. And that's true for each of these three different options that we're gonna go over. So, like, sex just feels unfulfilling, unenjoyable. Faking also disconnects you from your body. So you're focusing more the performance of faking than you are on your actual experience of what's happening in your body. Just, like, for me, like, it can morph into faking, the whole experience, not just the orgasm. Like, you're. You know, you're doing the whole narrative arc, the entire thing. It eventually leads to resentment of your partner. We had a different woman write in who said, I didn't even do that convincing of a performance that time, and my partner didn't even notice. Do they even care? Have they even suspected that I've been faking? And it does wind up sabotaging your ability to have a real orgasm with your partner. So not only, you know, you're so wrapped up in the faking, but also your partner is getting incorrect feedback about what you like. So if they think that's what's working for you, they're gonna keep doing those things that they think are working for you, and you're gonna keep having the kind of sex that is not working for you. So faking just really has no positive benefits whatsoever. Okay, let's talk about the second option where you're not faking, but you're not having an orgasm. So when we did this poll about orgasms originally, we just asked. We asked, like, do you fake orgasm? Yes or no? And a ton of women reached out and said, hey, I don't fake it, but I'm also not having the orgasm.

Xander Marin (34:05)

So we realized you need a new category.

Vanessa Marin (34:07)

Yeah, we realized, like, oh, we gotta add a new category here. So, you know, it makes me wonder with like male partners in particular. Like, what's going on with the dudes? That there's no conversation happening here? Like, is it that the guys are not noticing at all? Do they not care? Maybe they're too focused on their own performance issues or performance anxiety that they're not even, like, picking up on what's going on with their partner. So, you know, I don't know. It could be all of the above at different times. But yeah, it strikes me as interesting that you could be a partner to somebody. And I mean, obviously we don't know. Like, are the women literally just lying there making no noise? Do they, you know, some like, sad, unhappy look on their face or like. Yeah. What is. What might be going on that the partner's just carrying on as normal?

Xander Marin (35:05)

Yeah, I mean, I've never been. I've. I've not been fully in that situation in a relationship. I think I've kind of been in that situation in, like a hookup before. And I think, you know, it was not, you know, it was not a hookup that lasted more than a one to two times, I think. But, you know, I think in. In that type of situation, like, you know, I don't. I don't know, I was super young, young anyway, I would hope that I would do a better job of this in some theoretical world where I'm at my age and not married. But, yeah, it felt awkward. What do you say? Oh, was that not good for you or something? It's sort of like you kind of do all these things so that you can have this hookah up and then it happens and then it's like, okay, well, hopefully everything's okay. And so, you know, I can imagine in a relationship that it sort of becomes okay. You're trying not to rock the boat. You're trying not to be weird or get too vulnerable early on. And then it keeps happening and keeps happening, and you're like, okay, well, she's not saying anything, so must be okay. Yeah, like, she still wants to be with me. We're still having sex. So, like, so, you know. Okay. It's similar to the, to the faking, where it's like, okay, well, I started like this and I don't want to have to, like, say anything, so I'm just going to keep doing it. I imagine there might be some element of that for guys.

Vanessa Marin (36:46)

So obviously the problems here, like, the same as with faking, like, you're not having a pleasurable experience. You're sabotaging your ability to have a real orgasm. And I Think you're also creating a real disconnect from your partner if it just. Just there's not any sort of communication going on, like the faking communication. At least that's a form of communication. But here there's just. There's a real disconnect that starts to happen. Then we have our third option saying, like, it's okay, it's not a big deal. Like, I don't need anything. So this typically develops in the same sort of way. Like early in a relationship is faking. Like, it just seems easier. Feels like the chemistry is there. You don't have to talk about it anymore. Like, you just, you know, maybe there's a few times where you say, like, I'm fine. You know, go ahead. And then it just, you know, you kind of fall into that pattern. And it can be wrapped up in, like, feeling like you don't deserve pleasure, worrying that you take too long, not being sure what you like or what you need. But of course, some huge problems with this approach too, like, faking. It can just feel like this big hole that you've dug yourself into that you can't back out of. And you're also, you know, still sabotaging your ability to have an orgasm with your partner. You're sending yourself the message that you don't deserve to have the same kind of experience that your partner is having. And with all three of these, like, the other impact that we haven't talked about is that you're going to lose desire for sex. Like, if sex is not a pleasurable, enjoyable experience for you, it doesn't make any sense for you to crave it. So you're going to notice your libido really start to decrease. So let's talk about where to go from here. So. So I do want to say you always have the option to fully come clean to your partner and share, you know, your history of faking or of just, you know, doing the no faking but no orgasm thing. You know, we're always going to be advocates for people telling the truth. And I think in certain ways, like, it's important to remind yourself, like, nobody does any of this stuff for malicious reasons. Like, I didn't start way back when thinking, you know what I'm going to do? I'm really going to fuck with my partners. I'm going to start faking now. And then, like a year later, I'm gonna tell them, surprise, I've been faking this whole time.

Xander Marin (39:03)

Like, you're gonna put all that work into it just for. For just for that, I didn't, you

Vanessa Marin (39:07)

know, I didn't do this to be mean. I actually did it trying to be kind, you know, thinking that was the kind thing to do. So there may be some circumstances where sharing with your partner and sharing, like, hey, I was just so lost, I didn't know what to do. This felt like the best thing to do. Like, that actually could be a really intimate conversation with your partner. Now, that being said, I know the vast majority of people hearing that are, like, already starting to sweat and thinking, like, I absolutely do not want to come clean to my partner. And I get it. I never came clean to any of my partners about that either. So we wanted to give you some options for how to get yourself out of this hole without having to necessarily share the full story. So the main thing that you really have to start doing. Doing is advocating for your pleasure is asking your partner to spend more time focusing on you. And so, again, you don't have to give, you know, the full backstory behind this, but you can start asking your, you know, start taking up a little bit more space during sex. So there are a bunch of different ways that you can go about this. Like, one is just to literally, like, ask your partner to focus on your body. So ask your partner to use their hands on you, to go down on you, to use a toy on you. My favorite way of doing this is actually introducing this as the two of you trying new techniques on each other. So you can say to your partner, like, hey, I want to try some new tricks on you. And then, you know, maybe you try some new things on me. Or, like, and make some suggestions. Yeah. Like, what about if we do some exploring tonight? That way it makes it feel like it's this reciprocal thing because, you know, everybody's heard the advice, like, keep it spicy, Mix things up, you know, and so it. It feels more. It's like, more normalized to bring that up. Like, hey, let's spice things up tonight. Let's try it. And so it's not, you know, you're not having to tell your partner, like, everything you've been doing sucks. You can just say, like, let's try some new things. And yes, like Xander was saying, like, the key thing there is to have specific things that you want to ask them to try. And we'll talk a little bit more about that in a second sec. If you have been faking, here's like, a little way that you can kind of reset. You could say something to your partner, like, hey, I've been noticing that what used to work for me, it's just not working the same anymore. So obviously this is a lie, but it is giving your partner and yourself, like, a really gentle out, Like, a gentle way of being able to talk about it without having to, like, fully come clean about everything that's been going on. So you're really presenting it as, like, yeah, it's not. It's not anything about you. It's just something that. That I've been noticing for myself. I would love for us to explore other techniques, other ways of bringing us pleasure so you can still talk about it in this positive way of, like, yeah, I want to try some new things with you. Let's explore. And I mean, it is true that over the course of our lives, what our bodies like and respond to really can change. So, like, this is a conversation that I think couples should get used to having with each other, because you're going to have it at another point, too. So, again, it's not the full truth, but it is a gentle way of resetting between the two of you. And then another way of advocating for yourself is, let's say your partner orgasms. You could just pop in and say, all right, my turn. So again, it's not any big, heavy conversation. It's not having to share the full details of everything. It's just advocating for yourself a little bit more, being willing to ask for more attention, ask for more time. Okay, so of course, the natural question out of there is, like, all right, I'm ready to start. Like, I can ask for more attention. I can ask for more time, but, like, what do I tell my partner to do? And again, like, I get it. That's why we're back in the same, you know, territory of, like, somebody tell me the specifics of what to do. So here's where we want to loop around and tell you again about finishing school. So finishing school will literally walk you through, step by step, step, everything you need to know to have orgasms on your own, with a partner, whenever you want them. It's a very comprehensive course. So there is way more than what we could go into in a single podcast episode. And I really didn't. I didn't even want to, like, scratch the surface because I don't want to do women. The disservice of the advice that's, like, vague, not enough for you to actually, like, do something with. So if you are really serious, serious about wanting to learn how to have orgasms so you can stop faking, so you can stop just lying there, so you can stop telling your partner, I'm fine. Don't worry about me. I don't need anything.

Xander Marin (44:03)

And so that you can also start literally having the list of knowing exactly what to tell your partner what to do. Because I think that that's like the, you know, that's the real outcome of finishing school. Not only will you be having orgasms, but you will know exactly what to tell your partner to do for your unique body. Because the is problem. Problem is we can't just tell you, like, oh, yeah, just do these five things. There are a ton of options. And the key is finding the things that work for you so you can communicate that to your partner.

Vanessa Marin (44:30)

And it's presented in a way that's really fun too, because I want this topic to feel fun. Like, I had so many of my own experiences of trying to figure it out, and it was miserable trying to figure it out. So it's really presented like on your own and with your partner. You're doing stuff in a way that feels sexy and fun and connecting and bonding. It does not feel at all like cold or clinical or, you know, anything like that. It's a really, really fun process and little spoiler alert. It. It really goes so far beyond orgasm, too. It's really understanding, like coming to see yourself as a real sexual person. Like understanding your sexual self, finding your sexual confidence. And we wanted to tell you about it now because we are doing something really special. We are giving last chance to get it at the current rate because the price for finishing school is about to double. Yes, it is going to double. So if you have been thinking about this for a while, because I'll be totally honest, we hear from so many women who sign up for finishing school and they're. And they're like, I've been sitting on the fence for two years. I've been looking at this course since it first came out. And you wait for so long and you know, we don't want you waiting anymore. We want you.

Xander Marin (45:50)

This is your sign.

Vanessa Marin (45:51)

Yeah. Because you deserve orgasms. You deserve pleasure, you deserve confidence, you deserve connection. You deserve the same experience that your partner is having. So if you want to join finishing school before the price doubles, make sure to head to vmtherapy.comorgasm before March 2nd. That's vmtherapy.comorgasm. we will also put that link in the show notes for you. All right, that is all for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.