E251: What’s Your Desire Type? Our NEW Framework for Understanding What You and Your Partner Really Want

Summary

Pillow Talks E251: What’s Your Desire Type?
Our NEW Framework for Understanding What You and Your Partner Really Want
Hosts: Vanessa & Xander Marin | Date: March 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Vanessa and Xander Marin unveil a groundbreaking new model for understanding sexual desire in relationships. Drawing on established research and their own experience as a sex therapist and couple, they present a clear, four-type framework designed to help individuals and couples identify their unique desire profiles, communicate needs more effectively, and break out of common sexual gridlocks. Listeners will learn how to categorize their own and their partner’s desire “types,” why so many couples misunderstand each other’s preferences, and practical, actionable strategies for improving intimacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Problem with “One-Size” Advice

• Most couples struggle with mismatched desire, often defaulting to “something must be wrong with me/us.”
• Desire is complex—there’s no universal tip or “magic pill.” The right approach depends on individual type.
  [01:33] Vanessa: "Unfortunately, life doesn’t work that way. Especially not with something as complex as desire."

Two Classic Desire Models

1. How Desire Arises: Brain vs. Body

• Inspired by Dr. Rosemary Basson’s model:

  • Spontaneous/Brain First: Mental desire precedes arousal (classic “horniness” hits randomly).
    • Most often portrayed in media and in early-stage relationships.
  • Responsive/Body First: Physical arousal happens first; desire follows.
    • Common in women but not exclusive.
      [07:12] Vanessa: "One of the classic ways of knowing that you might have responsive desire is if you’ve ever caught yourself in the middle of sex thinking, 'This is really fun. Why do I never seem to want this?'"

• People can experience both throughout life; it’s a spectrum, not a box.

• Focusing only on this model can leave couples feeling at odds—often resulting in gridlock.

2. What Prelude to Sex: Emotional vs. Physical Connection

• Emotional First: Needs emotional intimacy, safety, or connection to be open to sex.

• Physical First: Sex is the pathway to feeling emotionally connected; “let’s do it and we’ll feel close after.”
  [19:01] Vanessa: "The vast majority of women want to feel emotional intimacy first...The vast majority of men want physical intimacy first. But we are slightly different in our relationship."

• Often a source of misunderstanding and feeling “broken” when your needs don’t match typical gender stereotypes.

Combining the Models: The Four Desire Types

• Xander’s Insight: Overlaying the two axes (How + What) creates four unique profiles—capturing a far wider range of experiences.

The Grid

1. Brain First / Physical First
2. Body First / Emotional First
3. Brain First / Emotional First
4. Body First / Physical First

[26:48] Vanessa: "We’ve got like a brain+emotional type, a body+emotional type, brain+physical type, and body+physical type."

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The Four Desire Types Explained

1. Brain First / Physical First (“Samantha”)

• Traits: Thinks about sex often; likes to initiate; feels close via sex.
• Strengths: Brings heat, spontaneity, and passion.
• Growth Areas:
  • Needs to not take sexual rejection personally.
  • Should find other ways to feel emotionally close (so sex isn’t the only “connection food”).
  • Get comfortable with planned intimacy and find positive outlets for sexual energy.

Memorable Moment:
[39:49] Xander: "It’s almost like you are a super picky eater, and you have one food that is your go-to food... you need to expand your diet a little bit."

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2. Body First / Emotional First (“Charlotte”)

• Traits: Rarely thinks about sex unless already emotionally connected or during/after sex; slow build.
• Strengths: Creates deep, meaningful, “celebratory” sexual experiences.
• Growth Areas:
  • Practice initiating physical affection/sex (even with responsive desire).
  • Learn the difference between “good enough” and “perfect” circumstances for intimacy.
  • Be specific about the emotional types of connection you need.
  • Remember: sex can create as well as reflect emotional intimacy.

[44:48] Vanessa: "Sex feels like a celebration of connection, not a tool to create it."

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3. Brain First / Emotional First (“Carrie”)

• Traits: Thinks about sex often but needs emotional connection before acting.
• Strengths: Passion and depth; can easily experience brain-first desire and emotional intimacy, leading to multidimensional sex.
• Growth Areas:
  • Clearly express what feeling “off” means to your partner.
  • Specify your emotional needs and “off thresholds.”
  • Practice acting on desire even when circumstances aren’t ideal.
  • Suggest emotionally connecting activities if not in the mood for sex.

[52:54] Xander: "I think about sex all the time, but I don’t always act on it... I can literally be in the same room as Vanessa; we’re feeling disconnected—and I can be thinking about literally fantasizing about having sex with you, in this idealized way. And there’s a 0% chance that I... would take action on that because I’m like, 'Oh, the vibes are off.'"

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4. Body First / Physical First (“Miranda”)

• Traits: Seldom thinks about sex unless physically engaged; warms up slowly but desire can get strong once started.
• Strengths: Shifts from guarded to deeply present/connected with physical intimacy; brings out a vulnerable, open side few see.
• Growth Areas:
  • Identify and communicate warm-up needs.
  • Initiate physical affection or intimacy (even in small ways).
  • Verbally reinforce how sex makes you feel to your partner.
  • Don’t see slow start as lack of interest—your style is just as valid.

[58:55] Vanessa: "You have an incredible ability to respond and open up once you are physically engaged. You bring depth, presence, and emotional security."

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Desire Types in Pop Culture

• Samantha: Brain/Physical
• Charlotte: Body/Emotional
• Carrie: Brain/Emotional
• Miranda: Body/Physical
  [60:22] Vanessa: "So we have Samantha in that classic, like, stereotypical male type... then we have Charlotte... then we have Carrie as the brain plus emotional desire type... and Miranda as the body plus physical."

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Communicating About and Navigating Mismatches

• Most couples are not the same type, which is normal!
  [61:37] Xander: "You probably are [different]. That’s probably where you’re at now... but what the heck do we do now?"

• Use this framework as shared language—have conversations and listen to this episode together.

• Empathy: No type is “better”—try to see your partner’s logic and needs.

• Practical Tip: Don’t try to move to your partner’s box entirely; instead, each of you makes small shifts or experiments with their partner’s preferences.

• Focus on “meeting in the middle”—combine connection-building and physical touch, or try planned intimacy that incorporates both partners’ needs.

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Noteworthy Quotes & Moments

• [01:47] Vanessa: "The desire for desire. I have so many things in my life I would love to have a magic pill for, but unfortunately life doesn't work that way, and especially not with something as complex as desire."
• [19:22] Xander: “For me, it was easy to operate in that... But I kept finding myself in these situations where I kind of push myself into hookups...and then I end up not coming away, not feeling very good about myself... And then I compare that with times that I have been in relationships...and I’m like, how is it that I feel so good and so connected and so positive about my sexual experiences in this context and not good in this other context? ...That’s because I want emotional connection first.”
• [22:15] Vanessa: "It was so powerful for us to finally put words to it and to realize... we just didn't have the language to talk about it before."
• [37:07] Xander: "Any no is like, it's basically like saying, no, I don’t want to be connected to you... So, it’s so important to be able to realize... This is just the way that my brain is wired."
• [47:56] Xander: "Just try initiating a little bit more than you normally do, because likely your default is to initiate rarely or almost never."
• [56:33] Xander: "That was one of the first things that I started doing... I started thinking after sex, 'Oh man, I feel so close to Vanessa right now.' ... If you are of this type, just remind yourself... 'This is what I feel when I have sex.'"

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Recommendations & Closing Thoughts

• Takeaway: Most people’s challenges with desire come from misunderstanding their own or their partner’s type—not from being “broken.”
• Action: Use the four-type grid to identify your and your partner’s styles. Talk openly, validate each other, and experiment with practical adjustments rather than seeking a “fix.”
• Mindset: Empathy and communication are key; blending emotional and physical practices leads to new and fulfilling intimacy.
  [64:10] Xander: "Rather than trying to change everything about yourself... [ask:] how can we both try to make subtle adjustments on just one of these at a time?"

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Final Call to Action

• Connect with Vanessa & Xander on Instagram (@vanessaandxander) or comment in Spotify to share your type and your partner’s.
• For more relationship tools, visit their website or scroll previous episodes (e.g. scheduled sex, building emotional intimacy).

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Summary prepared for listeners who want to understand and apply Vanessa & Xander Marin’s new four-type desire framework—without missing any of the practical wisdom or playful banter that makes Pillow Talks such a hit.

Transcript

[A]

Inevitably, anytime Xander and I are talking to a couple who's struggling in any way with their sex life. There is one partner who's brain first, one partner who's body first. There's one partner who wants emotional connection first. There's one partner who wants physical connection first. And yeah, I can just feel like this absolute gridlock. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20

[B]

years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

[A]

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. I am so excited about today's episode because we are going to be sharing a brand new model for understanding desire. We get asked about desire all the time. It's absolutely one of the top three concerns that couples have in long term relationships.

[B]

It might be the number one concern that we have, and it's a tricky one because most people try to ask really simple questions. Oh, how do I increase my desire? And the unfortunate answer is, there's no good individual tip. This is a complex system. Really.

[A]

Yeah. Well, also, I think a lot of times people want the question that we usually get asked is like, what's the best supplement for increasing my libido? Or what's the best pill that I can take? And you know, we always say we totally understand the desire for a magic pill. I mean, I have so many things.

[B]

The desire for desire.

[A]

The desire for desire. I have so many things in my life that I would love to have a magic pill for that I just take it and it solves that problem. But unfortunately, life doesn't work that way, and especially not with something as complex as desire. And I think what you're also saying too is that there isn't a universal thing that will work for everybody. Like, if both you and I are struggling with low desire, the thing that might help me might not help you. Or vice versa.

[B]

Yeah. So by the end of this episode, we can definitely talk about certain things that may work better for certain types of people because you'll have a much better understanding of what desire type you are after this. There turns out there we've come up with four desire types that really run the gamut of all the different ways that our desire can work and so once we understand who we are, once we understand who our partner is, all of a sudden that really opens the doors to like, oh, okay, now I can actually find some things that really might work for me. Because the crazy thing is that whatever the thing is that you'll find that works for you probably won't work for like 75% of other people. It might actually do the opposite for them. So it's so important to understand really who you are and how you tick.

[A]

Yeah. So at the end of this episode, you're going to walk away knowing your type, probably having a pretty good guess at your partner's type. You'll have a framework for communicating with your partner about differences in your desire types and what you. What you each need, and some really practical tools for increasing your desire. I feel like we polled people recent, not recently, but like a couple months ago, asking, that's recent. Do you wish you could like increase your desire? And I can't remember the exact number, but I feel like it was like in the 70s, like 77% of people said they wish they had higher desire. So.

[B]

Well, this episode's for the 70%.

[A]

If you're one of that, maybe that percentage. Cause I can't remember the exact number, but I know it was very high. You're gonna have some practical tools for what to do to increase your desire. And I also hope that you walk away from this episode with the relief of knowing there's nothing wrong with you. Not broken in any way. It's just that we don't get taught about this kind of stuff. And we literally made up this model so there was no way you could learn it otherwise.

[B]

So we didn't make it up. Make it up sounds like we just pull it out of thin air. We developed this based on other research,

[A]

but actually, I have to give you credit. Cause Xander was the original one who had this idea. We'll tell you more about it in a second. But yeah, the point that I want to make is I hope that you walk away from this knowing you're normal. Nothing is wrong with you, just that you didn't have the information that you needed beforehand. It's so easy for us, and I will say, especially women, it's so easy for us to so quickly go to the place of thinking something's wrong with me to beat ourselves up to, you know, feel really frustrated with ourselves. And I really want people to understand, like, absolutely nothing is wrong with you. And I know this information is going to be game changing for you. Okay, so let's get into the model. So there have been two different ways that we have been talking about desire in our business for the last few years.

[B]

Yeah. If you've been following closely, you've probably heard us talk about both of these things. The magic though is that you haven't heard us talk about them. Overlaid.

[A]

Exactly. Okay, so your desire type depends on two factors. How you want it and when you want it. We're going to go over each of these separately and then we're going to tell you about the overlay. So first let's talk about how you want it. So we did not develop this. This is based on research by Dr. Rosemary Bassin. Came up with this in around 2000 and she called it the spontaneous and responsive desire model. So basically what she talked about is that there are two different ways that we experience desire. Two different places that we experience desire. We can feel it in our br. So that's mental desire. The idea of sex just pops into your head randomly. It sounds good, you're interested in it.

[B]

It's kind of like classic horniness.

[A]

Yeah. And then we can also feel desire in our bodies. Our bodies get turned on, they get ready for sex. So this is physiological changes, like arousal. Yeah. Getting hard, getting wet, heart rate increasing, breath rate increasing, all that kind of stuff. So her model based created these two types based on where we feel that desire first. So first up we have spontaneous desire, which is when you feel mental desire first, then the physical arousal follows. So spontaneous desire is how you always see desire portrayed on TV and in the movies. It's like the character's just kind of going throughout their day. All of a sudden they're turned on, they go find their partner, they want to have sex. And so most of us, because that's the way we've seen it. And also in relationships, in the early stage of relationships, desire often feels very spontaneous to us. Like it feels like, oh my God, I was so into him. I just, you know, he just needed to look at me in the right way. And I was like, woo, I'm thinking about it.

[B]

Right? Yeah. We can be really tricked into thinking that we have spontaneous desire, or we have a lot of it early on in a relationship and then poof, like magically it disappears and we're confused about where it went.

[A]

Yes, very good point. Okay. So most of us think that is how desire is supposed to work. We think we're supposed to be spontaneous. And we don't even know that this second type exists, but it does. And it's called responsive desire. So it is the exact opposite of spontaneous desire. We feel arousal in our bodies first, and then afterwards, our brain catches up and starts thinking, huh, that sound. That sounds good. This is fun. So one of the classic ways of knowing that you might have responsive desire is if you've ever caught yourself in the middle of sex or even at the end of sex thinking, this is really fun. Why do I never seem to want this? So it's not low desire. It's not no desire. It's responsive desire. Your body needs something to respond to. You need to be feeling good in your body before you get that mental desire. So research shows that most women have primarily responsive desire and most men have primarily spontaneous desire, though there are lots

[B]

of exceptions to that.

[A]

Yeah, I actually have more spontaneous desire. And in the past, we'll get to this a little bit more. But Xander has identified more as responsive desire.

[B]

I thought I had responsive desire, really, until we started developing this model. And I'm very excited to tell you about what that's changed for us.

[A]

Yes. The other point I want to make about this is these models are not meant to box us in. Like, people can experience more of one type of desire over different parts of their lives. You can be primarily responsive, but sometimes you feel spontaneous or the other way around. So it's not this, like, rigid model.

[B]

Yeah. I do think that the challenge with just looking at that model in isolation, which we really. That's really what we've done up until now, is that it can really feel like two members in a couple are at complete odds with each other, and the gulf is kind of impossible to bridge. And I think that that ends up making this not that helpful. It's like. It's helpful in that. It's like, oh, it helps you realize, oh, my God, I don't have low desire. I just have a different type of desire, or, like, I need to be approached in a different way. The problem, though, is that then you start talking about it, and a couple and, you know, one partner is like, yeah, but, like, this. The spontaneity element is so important to me. Like, it doesn't feel like I can. Like, I don't feel like I will be fulfilled if we always schedule it or we always plan for it, or we always do, like, 20 minutes of massage first where, you know. And then the other partner is like, well, like, hey, like, if you can't, like, read the room about what you're initiating, like, I'm not going to be in the mood. And so it can almost end up like, it can be really helpful momentarily. And then it can feel like, oh my God, we're just at a deadlock and like, are we just completely incompatible? And so I think that we kind of do ourselves a bit of a disservice by only focusing on that model. So the important thing is once we get into these four types that we have developed, you'll see how it starts to get a little easier to understand how we can start making smaller shifts towards each other rather than feeling like there's just this big gulf that we need to cross or that like we need to make a compromise that's going to result in neither party feeling fulfilled. So yeah, we have kind of reconceptualized this, you know, in terms of thinking, you know, rather than we're not going to call it spontaneous and responsive in this model, we're thinking about it as how does desire show up for you? Does it show up in your brain first, AKA spontaneous, or does it show up in your body first, AKA responsive? So think brain first or body first?

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah. Mattress is an important part of your bed which is great for sleeping and great for your other activities.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Birch is having their sleep week sale so you can go to birchliving.com Pillow talks for 27% off. Okay, now let's. If you are looking for everyday essentials with quality that lasts, you have to check out Quinn's. I am so glad that Quince is back as a podcast sponsor because before they were a sponsor I personally bought a ton of Quinn stuff with my own money. I've continued to buy stuff with my own money. I just recently bought my sister a really cute maternity set. She just gave birth a few weeks ago and she is in dire need of some, like, comfy but high quality clothing. So I got her this really adorable little set that she absolutely loved. But we have so much from Quince. We have napkins, we have, I have really cute dresses that you really love. I've got some jackets, even one of their little wallets. It's incredible high quality Italian leather. Like, I have not got something from Quince that I did not absolutely love. So I seriously, highly, highly recommend checking them out right now. Go to quince.compillow for free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a full year to build your wardrobe and love it. And you will now available in Canada too. Don't keep settling for clothes that don't last. Go to Q-U-I-N c e.com pillow for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com pillow let's get into the second model of looking at desire that we've, we've been talking about in our business for years and years and years. And that's the interplay between emotional connection and physical connection. And very broadly speaking, there are two types of people. There are people who want to feel emotionally connected before having sex, and there are people who want to have sex as a way to open up emotional connection. So it's like, which, which thing do you want first? What feels most natural to you? I want to physically connect with you first. And then I feel so, like, open and loving and vulnerable and intimate, or, hell no, I need to feel emotional, vulnerable, loving, you know, intimate with you before I can be physically intimate with you. And like, just like what Xander was saying with the responsive and spontaneous. It's so easy for couples to feel at a standstill about this. Inevitably, anytime Xander and I are talking to a couple who's struggling in any way with their sex life. There is one partner who's brain first, one partner who's body first. There's one partner who wants emotional connection first. There's one partner who wants physical connection first. And yeah, I can just feel like this absolute gridlock. I mean, the, the classic conversation between the, you know, emotional versus the physical. It's like, well, I, I, there's no way I'm gonna have sex with you if we're feeling so disconnected. And then the other partner's like, yeah, we're disconnected. That's why I want to have sex with you, because that opens up the connection for me.

[B]

Yeah. So this one really comes down to when you want it. When you want sex, like, do you want physical intimacy first? Is that, like, the primary thing that you want to feel? Broader connection, or do you want physical intimacy once you've had enough emotional connection to feel open to it? So it's sort of like, is it, do you want sex first or do you want sex second? And this is actually, in our relationship, been something that in the. Maybe in the last five years, we've become more familiar with our own dynamics. And this has really helped us kind of get past some gridlock that we had had in the past, where we really started to realize we looked at it in really different ways. Vanessa is a physical intimacy first, which

[A]

is the opposite of the traditional gender breakdowns. Like, we do find that the vast majority of women want to feel emotional connection, and we're talking, of course, heteronormatively here with male female relationships. But the vast majority of women want to feel emotional intimacy first. The vast majority of men want physical intimacy first. But we are slightly different in that in our relationship.

[B]

Yeah. Because I am definitely a emotional connection first type. And that can be a confusing experience as a man, because you see all of this talk and portrayals on TV and movies and books of men as, like, just wanting sex at all costs or, like, wanting to do it first. Oh, this is how I open up. This is how I feel comfortable with someone. And so, you know, for me, it was easy to operate in that. To think that that's how I'm supposed to operate. But I kept finding, you know, when I look back through my sexual history, I keep finding myself in these situations where I kind of push myself into hookups or, you know, into, like, physical scenarios with people, and then I end up not coming away, not feeling very good about what happened or feeling very good about myself. And then I compare that with times that I have been in. In, you know, relationships with people and having regular sex with those people. And I'm like, how is it that I feel so good and so connected and so positive about all my sexual experiences in this context and not good about my sexual experiences in this other context. Whereas, you know, I talked to friends who were like, oh, yeah, no, I had, like, such an amazing hookup with this person. Or, you know, oh, we kind of, like, had a fling for a couple weeks, and it was super fun. Like, I'm so happy that I did that. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, am I just. Like, is there just something wrong with me that, like, I feel like I'm supposed to be doing this, and all my friends are celebrating me for doing this, but I don't feel good about it? And, like, yeah, how is it that I feel so much better? You know, it's just like that simple matter of, like, oh, I'm, like, getting to know this person, and now we're in a relationship, and I'm like, oh, yeah, no, Like, I love having sex with you. I'm not having any performance challenges. I feel great about this. And it's like, oh, well, that's because I want emotional connection first. And we found that in moments where Vanessa and I were in some kind of disagreement or the vibes felt off, Vanessa would be more inclined to say, hey, why don't we have sex? We're gonna feel so much better. And I would find myself resistant to that idea. And that would create even more disconnection or even more kind of like headbutting, because I wasn't able to describe until relatively more recently why it was that I wasn't open to sex so it'd feel to Vanessa, oh, he just doesn't want me. He doesn't want it. Something's wrong with him. And I would feel like something's wrong with me too, until I realized, oh, I don't feel safe until we've just had a little bit of time to reconnect emotionally. And that really opened things up. We realized, oh, if it. You know, I think for Vanessa, it was like. Or, I mean, you could describe it. How did it feel to you when you heard me conceptualize it as, like, a safety thing?

[A]

Yeah, that totally changed my perspective. You know, it was so powerful for us to be able to finally put words to it and to realize, you know, we just didn't have the language to talk about it before. We didn't understand it. And then once it finally got crystallized, I was like, oh, okay, that makes a lot of sense to me now. So it was really game changing. I mean, both of these. These different models have been game changing for us in their own ways. Just having an understanding of how our bodies work, how desire works, having an understanding of, like, what we're each looking for and needing from each other, it was so helpful. But like I said, you know, these models are, you know, the first one 26 years old at this point. We started conceptualizing the, like, emotional versus physical. I don't know, maybe 10 years ago or something like that we've been talking about it for a while and we eventually got to the point where we were realizing, like, it just feels like there's something missing. Like there's still. There's some piece of the puzzle, there's some way that we haven't quite nailed it down. And this guy over here was the first one to have the idea of what if we combine these two things?

[B]

Yeah, what if we layer one on top of the other, so to speak. So if you think about basically like a two by two grid or like a graph where you have one of these on one axis and the other on the other axis, doesn't matter which axis you put it on. That's why I didn't say x axis, y axis. You can think of a box, right? Like a two by two box. So on one side you have brain first and body first. And on the other side of the box you have emotional connection first and physical connection first. Then that results in four possible combinations. So, yeah, I wish I could tell you a great exciting story about how I came up with the idea to actually put these two things together. I think we've talked a lot about the challenge of feeling like we don't really have an overarching like model or personality type or archetype type thing to really categorize people into distinct groups. And I was just thinking like, God, it's a really nothing that we have that really can kind of get at the range of people's experiences when it comes to their sex drive. I was like, so I'm thinking, okay, well what do we have currently? Well, we have the brain first, the body first, we have the physical first, we have the emotional first. And I guess I was just kind of like, wait, well could we just put them together? What would the resulting combinations of those be? And so I just kind of wrote it up on a whiteboard basically of like, okay, so when we have this two by two box, we have all the resulting combinations. And once I saw it up there and started thinking about, okay, so like, what would someone that thinks or that, that experiences their sex drive and experiences sex in their relationship with each of these attributes, like, what would they think? How would they approach different scenarios? All of a sudden I was like, oh, this actually is really helpful. You know, it does, it gets at, you know, as we talk through them, you'll see it gets at there. Two of the resulting four types are the very stereotypical gender roles, basically. And then there's two types that are a little bit different, possibly a bit more Rare, but still really important. And the coolest thing was that I realized, oh shit, I am one of these outlier types. I am one of these outlier types. And it actually explains everything about my past experience with sex. Before being with Vanessa, after being with Vanessa. And it totally opened my eyes to like, oh, shit. Like, I have been not understanding myself until like this last year in a way that really, like, gave me a lot of empathy for myself. I feel like it's been really healing, honestly. And so we can talk about that when we get to talking about my specific type. I'll make you wait for that.

[A]

Okay, so, yeah, like Xander's saying, it's a grid with brain and body on one end, emotional versus physical on the other end. So they combine. So we've got like a brain plus emotional type, a body plus emotional type, brain plus physical type, and body plus physical type. Okay, so I think that probably by listening to our descriptions, you're probably starting to get a good sense of which categories you fall into. But we'll run you through a couple of quick little qualifiers to see like which one.

[B]

Okay, you probably have a good sense for yourself, but listening to this, you'll probably start to get a good sense of, of being confident in what your partner is.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so you might be a brain first type. If you think about sex randomly throughout the day, you often feel in the mood before any sort of physical touch happens. You're usually the one who initiates sex in your relationship and you feel like you could get turned on in a lot of different situations.

[B]

Yeah, this is, this one was interesting because like I'd said, I thought that I was a body first sex drive type. And that was because long ago in our relationship when we got into sort of a spell where we were not having as much sex as we used to and I was finding myself turning down, you know, I was not initiating sex very often, and I was finding myself turning down Vanessa's initiations fairly often. And back then, all Vanessa knew about was the, was that model of sex drive types. There was no conception of the emotional first, physical first. Back then. There was definitely no conception of the combination of these two. And so it was like, okay, well, obviously Vanessa is spontaneous. She's thinking about, she's, you know, she's spontaneous, she's brain first, she's thinking about sex regularly and then wanting to initiate it. And I must not be because I'm turning it down. Right. But the thing that always bothered me was and honestly made me feel horrible about myself when I was Struggling like that is that it wasn't that I never thought about sex. In fact, I thought about sex a lot and I wanted sex a lot. But I would find myself in moments where initiation was happening. I would find myself not open to it and I didn't know why. And so later I would realize, oh, well, it's because I'm a emotional connection first type and I need there to be a certain level of emotional connection. And back when we were having this struggle, I was really responsible for us not having a lot of emotional connection because I was working my ass off. I was never home. We were disconnected. I was totally beat. And, you know, being physically exhausted and disconnected is a, you know, a recipe if you're an emotional first side for not feeling open to sex. And so, yeah, once I started realizing, oh yeah, like, I actually am a brain first type because I do think about sex all the time. The thing is, it's that emotional connection piece that can be a blockage to me taking action.

[A]

Okay, so then let's go into. You might be a body first type. If you rarely think about sex unless something physical is already happening. Like I said earlier, like during or after sex, you catch yourself thinking, this is fun. You rarely initiate sex with your partner, or it feels like you need the situation to feel just right to get you in the mood. And then with the physical versus emotional first, you might be physical first. If physical touch is how you express and receive love most naturally when you feel disconnected from your partner, sex is one of the first ways you want to reconnect. You feel more emotionally open and close during sex or after sexual or regular sex helps you feel secure and connected in your relationship. That's a big one for me personally. There's something about like the regularity of intimacy that, that's like the barometer for me of how we're doing in our relationship.

[B]

Yeah. Which is so interesting because for me, it's really not like if we had like, I could be like riding high on like us having had amazing sex like a week ago or two weeks ago. And if I'm like, oh, well, there's been stuff that has come up in between them. We've been really busy at work. We maybe had some family stuff that we had to deal with. I'm like, yeah, no problem. Stuff has been in the way. But I'm still, you know, I'm still riding high on this, you know, this. We had some really great sex the week before. We were really consistent the week before. Whatever. It's like, it doesn't really compute to me. Whereas for you, even when there are reasonable explanations for why we haven't been having regular sex, for you, it's sort of. It's almost like an alarm bell ringing. Not like, you know, not like things are falling apart, but like, you know, you will be like, you know, Vanessa will lead with, oh, my God, it's been a while since we've had sex. Whereas I lead with, oh, we've had all these things in the way. And so it's just a different way of looking at it. And I think the other thing I want to call out too is like, you know, the first one that she read, Physical touch is how you express and receive love most naturally. Or like physical touch and sex. Interestingly, I am a physical touch kind of love language type. Like, I love physical touch, but I don't really personally, I don't really relate with the rest of the bullet. So, yeah, I am much more of a connection first type of. And. But yeah, so I want to call that out. That just because you might identify as a physical touch love language person, that doesn't immediately qualify you as a. As a physical first type.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, so then let's talk about how you might know if you are a connection first type. You want to feel emotionally close with your partner before you're open to being physical. When you feel disconnected from your partner, you want to reconnect emotionally first. You struggle to want or enjoy sex if something feels off between you and your partner emotionally or meaningful conversation. Quality time together helps you feel ready for physical intimacy. Both Zander and I are part of the 30% of Americans who grind their teeth. We both found out about it through our dentist. We didn't even realize that we were doing it. And it caused damage to my teeth, serious damage to Zander's gums.

[B]

You don't want what I've had.

[A]

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[B]

Or if you find yourself seeming disconnected, you're thinking, ah, it's been a while since we've had sex. If we could just have sex, then this. This feeling of lack of connection would go away.

[A]

If you're not having sex regularly, you probably find yourself feeling disconnected from your partner or feeling like something is off in your relationship.

[B]

This is you.

[A]

Obvious. This type is. This is me. And for you, sex is not separate from emotion. It is the emotional gloom.

[B]

Yeah. Because, like, it's so interesting, like, if there's been a period where, you know, for good reason or for bad reason or let's just say for good reason, we haven't been having a lot of sex. If Vanessa, you know, Vanessa might be like, oh, it's been so long. Like, oh, I'm feeling, you know, I'm feeling concerned. Or, you know, I'm feeling like I would really like it to not have been so long for me, I'd be like, oh, but, like, but we've been feeling so, you know, we've had a bunch of tough stuff coming up, but we've been feeling really emotionally connected. And it's like, for me, I'm like, yeah, I feel great about the emotional connection. Vanessa's like, not like, whatever, but she'll be like, yeah, I know, but like the sex. And so it's just like, it's just such an interesting difference in ways of looking at it.

[A]

Okay, so here are the strengths for this type. We. We bring heat, excitement, energy into the relationship. Your passion reminds your partner that intimacy can feel alive and invigorating even in everyday moments. You have the ability to initiate spontaneously to keep the spark alive.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that that can be. Can be really fun to be with that type of person because it's. Yeah, they're. They're bringing. Yeah, they're bringing a lot of sexual energy to your relationship. So when you are open to receiving that Sexual energy. If that's, if you're not that type, it can feel really exciting. It's like, oh, yeah, this person is, you know, it's like someone who runs hot kind of like, oh, yeah, they're bringing the heat with them.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. And then here are some areas where you can improve.

[B]

Yeah. Because everyone, they got superpowers, they got areas for development, they got their kryptonite.

[A]

So you have to stop taking rejection personally when your partner says no to sex. And truly this is the case in like, you know, any circumstance. But when your partner says no to sex, it's almost never about you. Like, it's about the circumstances going on. It's about what's going on within your partner.

[B]

But it sure as hell feels like, like it's about you. If you're this type by default, if you don't understand this, any no is like, it's basically like saying, no, I don't want to be connected to you. And if, if you don't understand that this is the way that you're wired when you hear no, you're like, wait, what? You don't love me, you don't care about me, you don't care about our relationship? What's wrong? Like, what's wrong? And so, yeah, it's so important to be able to realize, okay, this is just the way that my brain is wired. My partner saying no. Like, my partner very much does love me. They do care about me. They are not saying no because they're not into me at all. There must be something else going on.

[A]

Okay. So, yeah, you have to learn to separate your self worth from your partner's sexual responses. Find other ways to feel emotionally close.

[B]

This is so important.

[A]

Yes. I mean, yeah, I will say, when we first started talking about, about the physical intimacy versus emotional intimacy first aspect of it, my inclination was so like, yeah, I want the physical intimacy first.

[B]

Just give me the physical intimacy. Just give it to me. Everything will be better if you just give it to me.

[A]

What I had to realize, which we actually wrote about in our book Sex Talks, is that we realized both physical and emotional intimacy are equally important and equally valid. But in relationships that are really struggling with disconnection, we think that you should focus on emotional intimacy first. It's too much for somebody who's feeling disconnected and unsafe to push themselves to be physical when they're not feeling close and connected to their partner. Whereas for somebody who wants that physical intimacy first, it's not pleasant to have to focus on the emotional intimacy first. I'd rather my thing come first, but it's also about feeling safe, you know? So I think one of the great things that we can do is, yeah, find other ways to feel emotionally close. Yes. You absolutely can feel that through sex. And this is not invalidating that. It's not saying, like, other ways are better, but it's just the more ways that you can feel emotionally close with your partner, the better.

[B]

Yeah, I think maybe a parallel to this, and I don't mean this as a knock, because we just did talk about a bunch of the superpowers of this type, and all of these types have areas for improvement, but it's almost like you are a super picky eater, and you have one food that is your go to food.

[A]

I like this comparison.

[B]

So let's say you're like, I just want to eat chicken fingers, like, all day. That's, you know, that's my food. You know, hey, it's got protein. It's got carbs. There's some fat in there. Like, you know, like, I can survive off of that. I just want those fucking chicken fingers. Right? And that can be fine. Chicken fingers are great. I love chicken fingers. I eat a lot of chicken fingers. I'm not gonna lie. However, if you are having symptoms of malnutrition or you're having digestive issues, well, let's just say malnutrition or something. Maybe you're like, yeah, you're losing weight uncontrollably, you're malnourished. Like, your instinct might be like, oh, well, I need to eat more. So more chicken fingers. But it's probably best if you expand your diet a little bit. You need some vegetables. You need a whole variety of things. This is the important thing. You can still eat chicken fingers. You can't just eat chicken fingers. You like that? I came up with that on the spot.

[A]

Okay, so, yeah. Explore, quality time, Verbal affirmations, shared activities. So sex isn't the only way that you connect because it also. It puts a lot of pressure on your partner. If sex is the only way that you can feel connected.

[B]

Yeah, because it's not. It's not. The bottom line is, I think we can all agree sex is not the only way that you can feel connected. I get that before understanding this, it can be just your default. That's why that's what my brain goes to without me thinking more rationally about it. But rationally, I think we all would agree that there are a variety of ways to feel connected within a relationship.

[A]

Get comfortable with planned intimacy. So if Your partner does not have brain first desire. Scheduling sex might feel unsexy to you, but it can actually create a ton of anticipation and excitement if done the right way. We have a whole podcast episode on how to do this, so just scroll back. It was just a few weeks ago. Navigate dry spells with grace. So learn to channel your sexual energy into other areas when sex isn't happening as often as you would like.

[B]

Yeah, I think that that's, that's a. Because it's like, yeah, we can also. It can feel like, I imagine you feel like this almost like pent up energy. It's like I have this pent up energy that needs a release. And there are a whole variety of outlets for that type of energy. And I'm not just talking like, I'm not just talking about like sexual energy or sexual frustration. Like, yeah, obviously sex is the thing that is going to relieve sexual frustration. But think about, hey, like, I, you know, my body kind of builds this energy or this electric charge. I need to find a way to release that. Maybe that's through, you know, going to the gym, a physical activity, something that you can really pour your energy into

[A]

and initiate with confidence and flexibility. Practice initiating in ways that honor both your desire and your partner's needs.

[B]

Yeah, because I think one of the things that can really happen for this type is that after a certain amount of rejection, you can feel like, well, screw this, I'm just not going to initiate anymore because my partner, like, doesn't like me, they don't care about me, they don't want sex. And I think this is kind of like a very. The stereotypical male concern is we hear from so many men who are like, oh, yeah, well, I just gave up initiating five years ago. First I stopped initiating to see if my partner would even notice. They didn't notice and I didn't tell them. And I just don't do it anymore because I can't take the rejection. And so, yeah, it's about, I'm not saying, oh, if this is your situation, you just have to start initiating overnight again. If you're in that kind of a hole, there's a lot of conversation that needs to happen and maybe some therapy, some help. But the key here is that it's learning that you can continue to initiate with confidence even if the last time your partner said no, because it is that learning of, of, okay. A no doesn't mean that they hate me. A no doesn't mean that they hate sex with me. A no means something else. And you can talk about what? That no means such that the next time you don't have like, you know, this negative self worth feeling where you're like you're initiating in a roundabout way or without confidence, like it's realizing, hey, my superpower is that I want sex out of nowhere and that I can initiate with confidence and with energy. And so it's learning, hey, I can continue to do that, even if not 100% of the time. The answer is yes.

[A]

Okay, let's get into the body plus emotional desire type.

[B]

Another highly stereotypical. This is the stereotypical woman.

[A]

Yes. Okay, so you don't think about sex until you're already feeling emotionally close to your partner. Desire doesn't come out of nowhere for you. It slowly builds. When trust, connection and affection are all in place. Place sex feels like a celebration of connection, not a tool to create it. And you need meaningful conversation, quality time, or emotional safety before your body is ready to be intimate.

[B]

Yeah, I think that that feeling like a celebration of connection is a big one. We hear that from a lot of people that it's like sex feels like the cherry on top. It's not the means to an end. It like it is the end, the end result or the culmination of all of this other stuff. Stuff.

[A]

So here are your superpowers. Your ability to lead with heart. Create sexual experiences that feel deep, meaningful and alive. Your emotional depth can melt your partner's defenses and help them feel completely safe to open up. And when you feel connected, you respond warmly and you bring incredible presence into intimacy.

[B]

Yeah. So I think I want to call out the importance of these superpowers because I think that, you know, one of the challenges with just the body first, brain first model is most people hear that and go, oh, I'm body first, brain first sounds so much better. And I, and I, there's probably a temptation after we read the last one to think, oh, that last one sounds so much better too. If we were just both that, that type, all of our problems would be solved. But the thing is, if two people are that type, yeah, there are probably some rare relationships where you do have or, you know, some rare opposite sex relationships where you have two people of type. The reality is, if you were two of that type, it is much more likely that you are probably going to be having a lot more sex. But probably it's going to be more like just hot, steamy, quick sexual experiences rather than deep and meaningful ones. And so I think that there really is a magic to, you know, to having sex that feels really Meaningful and having someone where, yeah, it's like when I am open to have sex, it is because everything feels really harmonious and we've reached a certain level and it's like I'm open to this bigger experience. And so I think the magic here is realizing that oh yeah, this is a really important type to be. It's a really important kind of counterpoint to the, the other more stereotypical type. Right. Because when you get it right, you can really create these magical experiences. And so it's not like, oh well, we always have to do it my way or we always have to do it their way. It's realizing, oh yeah, no, we are shooting, you know, and yeah, you're not going to have those big, huge, meaningful, like fireworks types experiences every single time. But it's, hey, we're shooting for having these on a regular basis. And sometimes maybe we have sex that's a little more, more the way that my partner would like it. Sometimes we have it a little more in the way that I would like it. But the, but the, if we're shooting for giving, you know, each trying to, to, you know, meet each other a bit more in the middle, we can create these really magical experiences.

[A]

Okay, so here are some ways that you can improve. Initiate this type often does not initiate. But even if you don't feel that like brain first desire, you can still start the physical touch, start the activities that help you warm up. Like you are still respons for initiating in the relationship too.

[B]

Yeah, and it's just, hey, just try initiating a little bit more than you normally do because likely your default is to initiate rarely or almost never. So just a little bit more. And yeah, remind yourself because I think this is the so, so important piece for this type is that they will say, man, when I'm in the middle of sex or at the end of sex, I ask myself, why am I not doing this more? I fucking love this. This is so great. And so you have to remind yourself of that. Oh yeah, once we get started. I love this. I told myself last time we were doing this that I wanted to do this more. So even though there's a part of me that feels hesitant, I can initiate an activity that I know is going to warm me up. So don't say, hey, hey, let's get down to business right now. You can say, say hey, let's make out for a couple minutes and slowly take each other's clothes off. So literally initiate the thing that is going to get you there.

[A]

Distinguish between close enough and perfect I think sometimes this type runs into feeling like the stars have to be in alignment to be open to sex. So it can be really helpful for you to identify, like, what do you actually need versus what feels nice to have. Communicate your needs clearly help your partner understand the specific types of emotional connection that make you feel open. So if you have that, like, stereotypical male partner who's, you know, brain first and physical connection first, sometimes just hearing something like, well, I want to feel closer to you, they're like, well, but what does that mean? I don't understand. You have to help your partner understand.

[B]

Yeah, it's so important to be able to give specifics, talk about specifics, identify the little things that move the needle the most and focus on those first. And if that, you know, if you're there doing that and it's not feeling like enough, then figure out, okay, what else is missing. But yeah, it's like, you have to understand to you, when you say, oh, God, I want to feel more connection, that feels like a very clear thing to you. And you expect that your partner will understand it in the way that you do, but assume it's almost like a foreign language. Or it's like if you just say a sentence in a language that they have, like, like, you know, a year's worth of proficiency at, they're not, probably not going to understand. But if you give it to them, you know, a word or a phrase at the time, they might start to get it.

[A]

Remember that sex creates emotional connection too. So your default is to think of emotional connection first. But it's also really important to recognize that sex can create that as well and challenge yourself to say yes more often. Of course, like, within reason. But try to be open to intimacy, even if you're not fully in the mood yet. I think you might be surprised by how your desire can follow when again, you give yourself something to respond to.

[B]

Do you wish you had more fun in your relationship?

[A]

If you're like most couples, you do, but you also struggle with, like, what exactly to do to have more fun and feel more connected.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah. No planning, no awkward. What should we dos?

[A]

We lay out everything for you. All you have to do is follow the instructions. And the best part, part Is that. It is nine bucks per month. That's like the cost of a latte these days.

[B]

Yeah. So if you're ready for more laughter, more curiosity, and more fun, head on over to vmtherapy.com spark to join.

[A]

That's vmtherapy.com spark because a little spark goes a long way. Now let's get into. So, you know, the first type was the more stereotypically male type. The second type is the more stereotypically female type.

[B]

Or it's like the double male, double female. Because it's like, on both of those elements, it's the stereotypical male. So it's like this male male and female female.

[A]

Now we have the ones that are like a little bit of a mix. So first up, we have the brain plus emotional desire type. So you think about sex often, but you need emotional alignment in order for it to feel fulfilling. If something feels off between you and your partner, you are probably not going to act on your desire, even though you feel that desire. When everything aligns emotionally and physically, the sex can feel incredible and deeply fulfilling. But this type and the next type, you know, doesn't really fit that traditional gender stereotype. So it can feel a little bit confusing to you to have these seemingly conflicted needs.

[B]

Yeah. This is literally my life that you've just described here. Like, I felt. I felt like something was so wrong with me until I just conceptualized it in this way. And it's like, oh, yeah. I think about sex all the time, but I don't always act on it. I think about sex in this idealized way of, oh, yeah, like, assuming that we have this certain level of connection, I'm like, fantasizing about what that kind of sex looks like. So it's like I can literally be in the same room as Vanessa. We're feeling disconnected. And I can be thinking about literally fantasizing about having sex with you, you in this idealized way. And there's a 0% chance that I, before I understood this, would take action on that because I'm like, oh, the vibes are off. Why would I do that? I'm fine just fantasizing about it. And then I would feel horrible like, wait, what's wrong with me? I'm supposed to want it. I clearly have all the signs of wanting it, but I'm not doing anything about it. And it's like, oh, no, I just need to have invest in a little connection, because that's the other part. As a man, it's like, like, even though I Want that connection? I've been socialized and I've developed in a way where I don't always know how to initiate those emotional connecting activities. So it can be so powerful to realize that and then think about, oh, okay, yeah. What would feel good to me? What is like one small thing that we could do to laugh a little bit more? For me, it's like, literally once we start laughing a little bit, it's like, boom, boom. It hits me like a ton of bricks. Oh, I'm ready to go.

[A]

So your superpower is that you bring passion and depth. You can experience brain first desire while also valuing that emotional intimacy, which brings a rich multi dimensional connection, just incredible energy and presence into intimacy.

[B]

Oh, thanks, babe.

[A]

But here's where you can improve. Make sure to express your emotional needs clearly. Help your partner understand what feeling off actually means. And what would help you feel more aligned. That specificity that we mentioned earlier.

[B]

Yeah. Cause it sucks. It sucks for me. I'm like, oh, something just the vibes feel off. And to me, that feels like something meaningful to Vanessa that probably just feels super shitty to hear. Like, what the hell is that supposed to mean, dude? Like, what can we do about that? Right? So it's like. Yeah, I think it's just. Yeah. It's so important to be able to express what is feeling off, what is missing. What could we do instead?

[A]

Identify your off threshold. So, like, is it slightly off where actually physical intimacy might help you. You reconnect? Or does it feel majorly off where you need to talk about it first? So there's some, like, recalibration here.

[B]

Yeah, because spoiler alert, very often physical intimacy will help you feel more connected. Like, the reality is, unless things are really, really off, like, there is a way to, to. To learn that physical intimacy will make you feel more connected. Just like for someone that is a physical connection first type, they can learn to invest in connection first and reap the benefits of that before having sex. Like, we can all push ourselves a little in one direction or the other and, like, we can learn to value both sides of these.

[A]

Okay. Be ready with suggestions. If your partner initiates and you're not feeling it, suggest a specific emotionally connecting activity. Instead of just saying no, make sure to pay attention to the emotional connection and closeness after sex. So if you have like a physical intimacy first, partner, partner. Remind yourself that physical intimacy can be a pathway to the connection that you crave.

[B]

That was one of the first things that I started doing before we actually probably in like the year or two before Discovering this combination of things was I started thinking after sex, oh man, I feel so close to Vanessa right now. This feels so good. And once I started saying that to myself, acknowledging that and validating that, I would find myself thinking the next day, the day after, I want to feel like I did right after we finished yesterday. That felt so good. And that unlocked something for me. Then I was like, oh, I know how we can feel. That way we can have sex again. I could initiate that. Even though I'm not wildly horny right now, in this moment moment, I'm horny for that feeling that I know that I will get. And so that really opened things up for me. So that was weirdly, I kind of discovered the workaround here before actually discovering this type specifically. And that one is so meaningful. If you are of this type, just find yourself, just remind yourself to think afterwards. Man, this feels so good. Think about what it like, really almost like, take a picture in your mind of what it looks like, what it feels like afterwards, and tag that with, this is what I feel when I have sex.

[A]

And initiate your responsibility to initiate too, even when things aren't perfect and perfectly lined up. All right, and let's bring it home with the body plus physical desire type. So you are not someone who walks around thinking about sex. But once something intimate gets started, your desire builds and can become surprisingly strong. You need a warm up to get interested, but once you do, regular sex is your pathway to deep connection. While you might typically find yourself being a bit guarded, when you're with a partner who gives the physical push that you need, you find yourself feeling more open, connected, and secure. So your superpowers. You have an incredible ability to respond and open up. Once you are physically engaged, you bring depth, presence, and emotional security. When intimacy is regular and your partner gets to experience a side of you that few others see. And that is a gift.

[B]

Yeah, I think this is an interesting one that's really exemplified by someone that almost becomes a new person or a better version of themselves. Once they start opening up with the physical intimacy with their partner, they can seem kind of guarded or closed down. And I think this can be a great person to be in a relationship with because it's like there's people on the outside, see this person a certain way, and you get to see this side of them that nobody else.

[A]

Okay. And some areas where you can improve, understand and communicate your warm up needs. Again, this is all about getting specific. Initiate. Even with that responsive desire, you can still start the physical touch or the activities that Help you warm up. You can develop subtle signals, like little ways to let your partner know you're open to intimacy. Verbally reinforce how sex makes you feel. Your partner may not realize how important sex is to you since. Since you typically don't initiate often. So telling them can be really beneficial. And don't feel ashamed of your slower start. Like your desire style is normal and valid. It doesn't mean a lack of interest. It's just how desire works. So those are our four types. When we were putting together this model, we were trying to think of different ways to conceptualize them and actually what came up for us. And this might date us a little bit, but we thought about sex in the city. So we have Samantha in that classic, like stereotypical male. Male type. The brain plus physical desire.

[B]

Yeah, she just want. Yeah, she cooks up with a lot of people. She feels great about it. Her default is sex in order to get to know someone.

[A]

Then we have Charlotte, who's that more stereotypical female. Female, the body plus emotional desire type. Where, you know, she wants to feel that emotional connection first. She has responsive desire.

[B]

She's sort of the chronic long term relationship haver of the group. Right. Like she's not hooking up with a lot of people, but she does open up sexually once she's in long term relationships with people.

[A]

Then we have Carrie as the brain plus emotional desire type. So she has spontaneous desire, but she wants to feel that emotional intimacy. Emotional connection with partners first. And then Miranda as the body plus physical. So that's that responsive desire but wanting to have physical intimacy first.

[B]

Yeah, like you kind of see her bloom almost in the rarer moments in that show where she is in a long term, like comfortable relationship with people.

[A]

All right, and then let's just wrap this up with a couple of quick notes about what to do if you and your partner are different types.

[B]

Cause you probably are. That's probably where you're at now. You're like, okay, great, like I understand me. I think I have a. Of who my partner is. But what the heck do we do now?

[A]

Yeah. So really, like, we hope that this model just creates a new shared language that have them listen to this episode, pause it, and you know, have conversations about it. But create this language where you can talk openly about your needs with no blame or shame. Practice empathy. Like try to see things from your partner's perspective. Their type isn't better or worse than yours, is just different. And find that sweet spot of ways that you can honor both of your needs. So like, for example, let's say one of you is a brain plus physical physical desire type, and the other is body plus physical desire. Like, you can start with extended cuddling or kissing. So that gives the body plus physical desire type that physical buildup that they need while still providing the brain plus physical desire type with physical connection.

[B]

Yeah. And the biggest suggestion that I can give you, which I think is the. The way that this model can really help is, you know, you each have these two. Two aspects of your type. Right. And I think that where people get hung up or at a standstill is thinking, I have to completely change this area of me in order to meet my partner where they are. What I would focus on rather instead is look at, okay, so you have these two. You know, you have the. You know, the. The body and brain axis. You have the emotional and physical. Physical first axis. Rather than trying to change, like, everything about yourself, like, I gotta jump to a completely different box. Think about, how can we, as a couple, how can we both try to make subtle adjustments on just one of these at a time? Let's work on one of these areas. So, okay, maybe one of us is brain first. Maybe one of us is body first. How can we, you know, one day try to move a little bit in one direction? How can we, the next day try to move a little bit in the other connection? So that we're both working on just making subtle adjustments on one element. So you might find that if you each share an attribute in one area, then it's like, great, we don't need to make any adjustments in that area. Let's just focus on trying to play around with the energy in the other area. Or if you find that you guys don't share any of those attributes, rather than being like, oh, my God, one person has to jump from one corner all the way to the other corner of the corner box. Let's just try to make little movements in one area or in the other area.

[A]

All right, well, that is it for our model. We would love to hear your thoughts, so please leave us some feedback. You can comment in Spotify.

[B]

Yeah, let us know what type you are. Let us know what your partner is.

[A]

Yeah, come over to Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Xander. That's Xander with an X. And thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release episodes every Thursday. Thursday.