← Pillow Talks
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- [00:00]
A
Habitual usage around sex can create dependence on substance to feel intimate. Like a lot of people say, you know, yeah, I need to have a glass of wine. I need to have a cocktail before we have sex. And it gets to the point where you feel like you can't have sex unless you've had that. Like, you really become reliant on. I need this thing to take that edge off for me. Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your host hosts Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.
- [00:37]
B
And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.
- [00:44]
A
Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Okay, we're back at it.
- [01:04]
B
We are.
- [01:05]
A
We've been releasing episodes every week, but you and I have not sat down and recorded a podcast together in a month.
- [01:12]
B
God, I actually hadn't thought of that. It has been a month. That's wild.
- [01:16]
A
I feel a little rusty.
- [01:18]
B
Yeah. Do we have it still?
- [01:20]
A
We'll see. Give us a few minutes. Yeah. Xander was on a surf trip. I mean, you had just, like, the bougiest last couple of weeks possible. He was on a surf trip, and then he met me for a couple's vacation. So you had two vacations back to back. What a life.
- [01:38]
B
True, though. I mean, my cabin on the boat was not particularly bougie.
- [01:43]
A
No, it was not.
- [01:44]
B
It was a very functional trip. It was about surfing a lot, which we did. And it was awesome.
- [01:49]
A
Bougie in the sense that you had two vacations back to back. That's never happened before.
- [01:54]
B
True. That is true. That is true. We wanted to do something together as well, and our plans for that second trip had to change last minute due to certain world events that have been happening, which was also kind of stressful and wild. But we made it happen. And we're back.
- [02:12]
A
We made it happen. And now we're back to the podcast. And we are covering a topic today that has been hotly requested and that I will admit, I have been a little hesitant to cover. Yeah, we'll get into it.
- [02:27]
B
Understandably, we have a bias, which we'll talk about.
- [02:31]
A
Yes, we do. Okay, so today we are talking about sex while intoxicated. We're talking about the legal stuff here. So alcohol, weed, in the states that it is legal. It's not legal everywhere. Right.
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B
I don't think it is legal everywhere in the, I mean, we're talking about the US Here.
- [02:49]
A
It's legal in California.
- [02:50]
B
It is legal in many states now. I, I, I feel like it's the majority, but I could be wrong. But it's in varying way, you know, like, it's like legal if it's medicinal in certain states and legal for medicinal and recreational and they're taxed differently and all kinds of. It's a, it's a whole, it's, it's like the wild west here. But I mean, if you drive around la, for example, like, there are, like, there are probably more weed billboards than there are anything else other than accident lawyers.
- [03:23]
A
Well, even here in Santa Barbara, where we live, like, it's not a particularly, it's not a big city or anything, but I'm like, shocked by the number of dispensaries for how small.
- [03:32]
B
I mean, are you shocked by the number of liquor stores, though? But that's interesting because liquor stores just blend into what you expect going around like a neighborhood or a commercial area. Right. It's just like, oh, yeah, there's always a liquor store every couple blocks. So why would you not be surprised if there's a dispensary every couple blocks?
- [03:52]
A
Okay, so today we're gonna be talking about, like, what science and research says what people's experiences are about. Desire, touch, communication, orgasm while under the influence.
- [04:04]
B
Yeah. Really? Mostly about sex. Like, not. We're not talking about whether these things are generally good or bad for you. I know there's a lot of talk about that. There's a lot of other people's podcasts that go into a lot of detail about this, especially when it comes to alcohol. We're not talking about that element of it today.
- [04:20]
A
Oh. And since we have not recorded in a while, we should also say we would be so grateful if you could do us a super quick favor. Could you subscribe to Pillow Talk? So if you're listening.
- [04:33]
B
Yeah, don't even stop listening. Just hit the subscribe button in whatever app you're in.
- [04:37]
A
Yeah. Little tiny button. Just tap that. I know it doesn't seem like that, that big of a deal, but it truly makes a really big difference. Yeah. We are not one of the, like, enormous podcasts that's raking in a ton of dough off of this. It's a. Yeah, it's a passion project. Yeah, it's a passion project.
- [04:52]
B
It might pay, like, one, a couple bills, maybe.
- [04:57]
A
Yeah. So little things like this really, really help support the podcast.
- [05:00]
B
I mean, if you listen regularly, you're probably like, oh, well, why would I need that? I know that every Thursday morning I have an episode, but just hit the follow button. It's so easy then, like, in case you forget, because maybe you go on vacation for a couple of weeks, then you'll remember.
- [05:14]
A
And if you're feeling like you want to go even above and beyond leaving a little review or a rating, it depends on what platform you're in. On Apple, you can leave, like, a written review or a star rating. Do whatever you can buy. You can leave a. I think just a star rating, but that really helps as well. So, yes. Thank you in advance for your support of Pillow Talks. We really appreciate it. Okay, so let's talk about our bias going into this, and I'll kind of share, like, why I've been hesitant to talk about this talk. It does feel like a pretty loaded, sensitive topic. I think that there's. So our bias is that we are both sober and have been for a while.
- [05:59]
B
Yeah, a number of years. Many years.
- [06:02]
A
So Xander is sober because he dealt with addiction issues. We have some podcast episodes about that if you're curious to hear a bit more about his story. And I got sober, like, both. Both in support of you, but also because I was realizing that while I didn't. I wasn't struggling with any addiction issues. Alcohol was really impacting me negatively. It actually took maybe about, like, 10 years where I was slowly, like, okay, now I can't do hard alcohol anymore. Okay, now I can't do red wine anymore. Okay, now I can't do white wine. You know, it was like, slowly having to cut things down, but I was dealing with things like my sleep being really disrupted, bad headaches, really bad, like, stomach issues from it. And I just kept getting to this point of, like, this is torturous to my body. My body very clearly does not like alcohol. And so I, you know, I kind of stopped on my own. And then with weed, like, I've never. I've never been into weed at all. So that was. That's, like, you know, it was like, never even really a thing. Have we even have. We had sex while we were.
- [07:10]
B
Yeah, I'm sure we smoked weed. I'm sure that we have. Or, like, eaten an edible or something. I'm sure that we have. I'm sure that we have. But no, you and I together have never used a lot of that together. I. As a. As a. Like, when I was, like, 18 19. At the beginning of college, I smoked a lot of weed. Fortunately, we hadn't met each other, and
- [07:34]
A
actually I. I would not have been into you.
- [07:36]
B
No, I'm sure you wouldn't. But the interesting thing was I actually stopped smoking weed, like, probably when I was like, 19, 20. Because, like you were describing with alcohol, what started happening to me was. And because this was also before the era of vape, there was no such thing as a vaporizer. And there was like, you couldn't do edibles unless you made them yourself. There weren't these nice chocolate blueberry things. And I got to the point where anytime I smoked, I would just start hacking up a lung. And the more I coughed, like, like, my, like, throat would hurt and I would start to get all paranoid and, like, feel crappy. And I remember distinctly thinking, how am I. How am I ever gonna, like, talk to girls? That's concern if this is my ex, you know, if. If this is my. And I was like, look at. Like, how much am I. I'm like, I'm using weed, like, almost, like, all the time. And, like, how am I going to talk to, you know, how am I gonna, like, hook up with someone like this? Or, you know, I'm just gonna get. I'm just paranoid. So I was like, I got. I gotta stop. Because I was single then. I wanted to not be single. I was like, I'm gonna be fucking single forever if I keep this up. So, you know, that was. That was. That was mostly that for me.
- [08:54]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, I've, you know, because of your sobriety and because of my own experiences of alcohol just really messing with my body and even weed, like, feeling like it really messed with me. I feel like over time I've developed more and more negative views of these substances. And I think that we're seeing that happen culturally a lot more too. Like, people are way more sober than maybe they've ever been before. Like, I don't know. I don't know all of history, but, like, we're very sober right now. The percentage of people who say they don't drink is really high. And like, you were alluding to, like, all of these studies are coming out now showing even. I think when we grew up, I remember thinking, oh, red wine is so healthy. You just have a couple glasses of red wine and that's how you live longer and it's good for your heart and stuff. And now we're seeing all of this research come out saying even moderate amounts of alcohol are really bad for your body. For Your brain for so many different reasons. But I also think we're getting, like, people who do continue to drink. I think there's more defensiveness coming up, too, around, you know, feeling judged for it, seeing all this stuff come up and, you know, like, if I was still drinking right now and I'm seeing all these studies, like, I would. I would feel defensive. I would not really want to acknowledge all of that. I would feel frustrated by it.
- [10:24]
B
Yeah.
- [10:24]
A
So I guess I've been. You know, I want to be clear in saying we are always. The perspective that we always take is everybody's gotta make their own decisions for their own lives. I'm never gonna be the kind of person who says, like, everybody should do this, nobody should do that, because I'm doing it in my life. That means it's gonna work in your life. So I wanna be really careful in saying, like, people gotta make their own decisions. And we're, you know, totally fine with people making their own decisions about whether or not they wanna take any sort of substances in the first place. But I think it's. Yeah, I just feel like a little. I feel a little wary wading into this topic. I have felt, obviously, now we're choosing to do it, so I'm like, I've gotten over it, but I have felt a little wary of, like, yeah, I don't want to. How do I talk about some of these challenges and concerns without it coming across as judgmental? And I never want anyone in our audience to think that we're being judgmental.
- [11:18]
B
Well, I think on top of all of that, I think that there's an even bigger bias too, which is we wrote a book about how to talk about sex, and most of what we do is focused on, like, how to talk about it, how to do it, how to feel more comfortable doing it. And as we'll get into, a lot of the reasons that people use substances to have sex are to short circuit or almost to get around issues that they might be having with either, you know, feeling like they need something to jumpstart their desire, or they need something to be able to make it feel less awkward or to get out of their head. So we clearly have a bias in that much of what we talk about our content area, our business, is built around helping people be more comfortable. Now, like, we don't say, you know, our business is not like, oh, we're helping you have better sober sex. But, like, the reality is, if you follow what we do, I don't think anyone is anyone who actually takes our advice and buys our courses and our guides and does all this work on their sex life is going to come away feeling like, oh, man, I really need. I really need an edible in order to have sex. So I think there's also that bias, too, in terms of just what we do is a bit at odds with, you know, this. Oh, yeah. Like, just eat this, just drink this in order to want to have sex all the time.
- [12:40]
A
I will also say some of the worst sex we ever had has been while we were intoxicated.
- [12:49]
B
Yeah. Like. Like early in our relationship.
- [12:52]
A
I mean, all throughout.
- [12:53]
B
Well, actually, yeah.
- [12:54]
A
Anytime that we had. Have had bad sex, the chances are high that one of the main reasons it was bad was because we were intoxicated.
- [13:03]
B
Yeah. And. Or got into some kind of argument, like, in the middle of. Or following sex. Yeah, absolutely. So that's another bias.
- [13:15]
A
Okay. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. The beach, right?
- [13:17]
B
Oh, no, no. I actually wasn't even thinking of that.
- [13:20]
A
Oh, really?
- [13:21]
B
Oh, you want. You want to tell that story?
- [13:23]
A
I'll throw myself under the bus. Yeah.
- [13:25]
B
One of the best. That was a rough one. I really blocked that out of my memory.
- [13:29]
A
One of the worst fights that we ever got into was over drunk sex that didn't actually even happen. So we weren't even close to happening.
- [13:40]
B
It was quite a bit closer. You probably thought it was a lot closer than I did.
- [13:44]
A
We were living in San Francisco at the time, and we'd gone with a bunch of friends all the way out to Ocean beach to have, like, a bonfire at night. And I think something had happened that day where we were out way longer than I thought we were going to be. Like, I had not eaten, like, all day, and that was at the time where I was still drinking hard alcohol and I was a whiskey girl back in the day, I was, like, pounding whiskey, and I got so drunk.
- [14:10]
B
I've never seen you that drunk before.
- [14:12]
A
I never have gotten that drunk since that day. I think that was probably the day that I said, I can't do hard alcohol anymore. I was extremely drunk, and I'm, like, 5ft tall. It's, you know, like, I get drunk pretty quickly and easily, and I got the idea in my head that I want. That I wanted.
- [14:34]
B
I love hearing you tell this story. I also love hearing you say one of the biggest fights you ever got into, because for me, this doesn't even make the list of the biggest fights, because for me, my entire experience was I've never seen you. I was not nearly on the level that you were Drunk wise. And I'm pretty sure I was like, I was basically sober enough where I was just like, I kind of was just like, she's fucking shit faced. Like she's, she's just on her own journey here. Like all like she, whatever. She can be upset with me. My job at this point is to get her home safe in bed. I also, like, like, we're not. It's a fight from her perspective. It's not a fight from my perspective.
- [15:16]
A
I also want to say too that I, like, I always prided myself on being able to stay in control. Like, I grew up being so afraid of drugs and alcohol. My grandpa was an alcoholic and he died of alcoholism. I was the dare essay contest winner in sixth grade. Like, I was such a little goody two shoes about this kind of stuff. And so even when I did, you know, start drinking, it was like, I don't want to get drunk. I'm very like measured and controlled with it. I know I can't even take that much because I'm a small person.
- [15:46]
B
Not that light.
- [15:47]
A
Yeah. So this was one of like probably five times in my life that I could. Even less than that that I can think of that I was like out of control. And anyways, I got the idea in my head that Xander and I should have sex on the beach. Even though there were tons of people around, including our friends. Like, sure, it was dark, it was night. Like I. I thought we could have like snuck.
- [16:08]
B
It was a bonfire. So Vaness.
- [16:09]
A
But it was their bonfire.
- [16:10]
B
Vanessa leads me away to this area that's maybe 20ft away from where our friends are in a circle around a bonfire. And it's like, I think that you were wasted and you thought that they were like big sand dunes. It was like little tiny, like a little tiny rise or a dip with some of that like ice plant stuff in it. And you were like, like, no, no one can see.
- [16:35]
A
No one can hear.
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B
And I'm like, vanessa, they're. They're right there. There. There's
- [16:43]
A
embarrassing.
- [16:44]
B
And you were like yelling. You were like yelling like, come on, let's do it.
- [16:47]
A
Oh yeah, let's do it.
- [16:48]
B
No one can see us. I'm like, they can lit. They can hear you screaming right now.
- [16:53]
A
So you would not have sex with me on the beach. I got really upset with him. And yeah, that was it. So that was our worst fight. Intoxicated fight around having sex. But yeah, we had plenty of other times where it was like, there'd be performance issues or we'd have some sort of miscommunication, or we'd start bickering or, like, you're on different levels of intoxication and it just doesn't feel good and you're disconnected. Like, we just had a lot of. Yeah. I would really venture to guess that anytime that we had bad sex, there was probably a 90% likelihood that, you know, one or both of us was intoxicated. So that's our bias going into this. But we did, I mean, we did ask our community to share stories and questions with us so we could share, you know, more unique perspectives about it.
- [17:44]
B
Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, I think most people listening to this episode are not listening to this because they're like. They're like, yeah, I love having not sober sex. And I'm really hoping someone's going to tell me, like, hell, yeah, this is the best way to have sex. This is the only way to have sex. But, yeah, if that was your perspective coming in, you should probably turn off the episode right now.
- [18:08]
A
I love when we tell people to not listen to our podcast. Like, yeah, don't listen. Okay.
- [18:12]
B
I mean, if you made it this far with that perspective, like, I would be shocked. Like, what were you expecting to happen? But I mean, no, I mean, this episode isn't about, like, you being a horrible person if you've had a good time. Oh, no, not at all. Cause, yeah, no judgment.
- [18:28]
A
We're all about zero judgments.
- [18:30]
B
Do have good times. Serious things.
- [18:33]
A
Let's talk about why people use substances, why people get intoxicated for sex. One of the main things that we hear is that it reduces anxiety, so it makes people feel more relaxed, less self conscious. That feeling of, like, you know, I just want to have the. Have a drink at the end of the day to, like, unwind after a while.
- [18:53]
B
Take the edge off.
- [18:54]
A
Yeah, take the edge off, exactly. I would say, though, probably the most common reason is lowered inhibitions. People will say, like, oh, I just feel, like, more confident. I feel, like, kinkier. I can, like, allow myself to, like, be more open to sex and, like, less closed off or less prudish. Like, it makes me feel a little more wild. So that can feel really appealing to a lot of people. I think the vast majority of us struggle with feeling confident around sex. Like, we feel some amount of embarrassment, shame, you know, self consciousness. And so to have something that can, like, take that edge off and make you feel more confident, like, of course that's gonna seem appealing to a lot of people. Also, obviously some people are in it for, like, the Altered sensation. Some people say, like, you know, touch. And I think this. You get this especially, like, with weed. Some people will say, like, oh, sensation feels, like, heightened for me. Time feels like. It kind of slows down. So it just, like, feels, you know, physically like a different experience.
- [20:05]
B
Yeah. I don't think anyone is saying that alcohol makes things feel better because it's a depressant and it basically can't. It can really only, like, numb what you feel. But that being said, I do think that there are probably some men specifically that would probably who, you know, might struggle with premature ejaculation that might say, oh, yeah, no, once I've had a couple of drinks, I can actually last longer. The issue there is, yeah, you can last longer at the expense of having a. A worse experience, basically. So, you know, it's like you're covering up another issue. It's like, you know, if you're. If you're struggling with, you know, coming too fast. And let's talk about how we can solve that problem with you still experiencing the same amount of pleasure rather than being like, oh, yeah, let's just cut the pleasure in half so that I can last longer.
- [20:53]
A
And here are a couple of quotes that we got from people in our community. Someone said after eating a gummy, all we could do was laugh. We kept to be intimate, but there was just too much laughing.
- [21:04]
B
I appreciate the dedication.
- [21:05]
A
Yeah, we kept.
- [21:06]
B
We kept trying. That's. That. That would be like. I feel like that, you know, it's been so long, but, like, going back to, you know, what it would be like for me if I was. If we were doing that, I feel like that would be one of those things where I would be like, get really in my head and be like, oh, God. I know that we said that we wanted to have sex, but, like, I'm in no position to, like. I sure hope she doesn't. I hope. Hope she's not expecting it, because now I don't. But I don't want to say anything about it. So good for them that they kept trying.
- [21:36]
A
Another person said, I cannot orgasm after drinking. I can't even get wet. My body just doesn't work.
- [21:43]
B
I feel like we hear about that. A lot of women say alcohol really just completely shuts down their ability to have orgasm.
- [21:50]
A
Get out. I do not enjoy sex with my partner while intoxicated in any way. But then, on the other hand, we heard a little weed gets me out of my head and into my body more. And we also heard somebody else say, weed helps me be More in the moment and feel more during sex. So let's talk about some of the dangers and challenges of having sex while intoxicated. So I want to start with impaired judgment. Obviously, like, when we are intoxicated, it's harder to make decisions because you're not in your right mind. Your brain's just not functioning the same way that it normally does. So I think most people have had experiences of doing something while intoxicated that they regret later.
- [22:41]
B
Yeah. So, you know, if, say I had been just as drunk as you that night and I had been like, oh, hell yeah, no one can see us,
- [22:51]
A
why would you be talking like that?
- [22:52]
B
Because I'm wasted.
- [22:55]
A
That's your. That's the voice that you use when you're, like, trying to be a creepy, creepy horn dog. It's also your wasted voice.
- [23:02]
B
I was doing more of the Californians voice. Oh, yeah, let's do it.
- [23:07]
A
That's a deep cut. I don't think most people are going to recognize that reference.
- [23:10]
B
Snl, the Californians. I mean, I'm born and raised in California. I definitely have a California draw. That's true. But no, I mean, let's say we had done it. I have the benefit of not being that drunk that night, knowing that if we had done it, then you, you know, we would have had sex in front of all of our friends. And you very well might have regretted that decision.
- [23:32]
A
Oh, absolutely.
- [23:33]
B
In the morning.
- [23:33]
A
Absolutely. I probably would have been mortified, like, oh, my God, who saw? Who heard? Are they gonna make it?
- [23:41]
B
I mean, people might have heard anyway.
- [23:42]
A
Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [23:43]
B
That whole situation.
- [23:45]
A
But, yeah, I mean, I made a decision that I regretted later. While intoxicated, you could have made a decision.
- [23:49]
B
You regret it a lot more.
- [23:51]
A
Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, in my sex life before you, I definitely made plenty of sexual decisions while drunk that I regret.
- [24:00]
B
Oh, yeah, me too.
- [24:02]
A
So much sex that I would not have had if I had been sober.
- [24:05]
B
Oh, yeah. I mean, I think a very good portion of my, you know, kind of like hookups or one night standish situations probably would not have happened if I wasn't drunk. Because, yeah, for me, I, you know, I didn't know this until recently, but yeah, I am a. I want to feel a certain level of emotional connection before I feel comfortable having sex when I'm sober. You know, when I was drunk, all of a sudden, that kind of noise or that that discomfort would go away and it would just be like, oh, yeah, like, yeah, I want to do it. This is a great idea. And so you know, pretty much all of my hookups. It would be, like, really exciting in the moment. And the next morning I would wake up and, oh, I kind of wish I hadn't done that. I don't know that person at all. And now I'm gonna, like, see them around and like, I don't know what to do or say. I don't feel like close enough to talk about this. Yeah. So, I mean, that's. Yeah, I've lived that one.
- [25:15]
A
I have to admit, lately I have been in a season of life where I'm just like, reaching for pajamas every day and like, not getting dress. And I decided I need to take this up a notch. I can't just be living in workout pants. So I bought this incredible set from Quint. It's a jogger set, so it's like joggers and a sweater, but it is made from cashmere, Mongolian cashmere. So it's elevated. It's not pajamas. It's elevated, it's cashmere.
- [25:47]
B
It doesn't look like pajamas, but it feels like pajamas.
- [25:51]
A
I was actually so obsessed with it. I bought it twice. And this is my own money. This is not because they're podcast sponsor. I bought it two times with my own money, in gray and in black.
- [26:00]
B
It looks great. I encourage you to wear this every day.
- [26:04]
A
I have a ton of stuff from Quince. They not only make clothing, but they also have tons of home goods. I mean, they're always adding new categories. Every time I go on their website, I'm like, wow, I can't believe they sell this too. And everything that we've bought has been high quality but very, very affordably priced. Everything is 50 to 80% less than you would find at similar brands because they work with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So prem materials without all of the markup, Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.compillow for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. I've never seen a return policy like that.
- [26:44]
B
Yeah, that's great.
- [26:44]
A
That is. Q-U-I-N C E.com pillow for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com pillow. The biggest danger of sex while intoxicated is around consent. Like, consent gets very murky when substances are at play. And I think there's even an argument to be made that you can't consent while intoxicated because you're at a certain level of intoxication.
- [27:17]
B
But there's no line like, oh yeah, once you're blood outline.
- [27:20]
A
Exactly. Like, there's no specific point. And if you're two intoxicated people, it's, you know, that makes it even blurrier too, where you know, there's not one person to kind of check in, like, hey, are you sure about this? You know, I can't quite tell. You're not fully all there.
- [27:37]
B
Yeah. Or at the very, at the very least, whether it's full on, like, lack of consent. Consent is unclear to, you know, a less extreme version of that. But just like misreading signals, like, that can be very real. And I think that, you know, in terms of the dangers, that makes a lot more sense if you're thinking about people that aren't in long term relationships. But I would actually argue that this is one of the more complicated and tricky things is you are in a long term relationship, you are in a marriage. And I think a lot of us, once we've been with someone for so long, it's like you assume, yeah, I've given blanket consent to this person. And so it can be really hard if you have an experience where you're like, ooh, I kind of regret that, or I feel weird about that. But like, that's not appropriate for me to feel weird or bad about that because that's my partner. I love them. Like, we have sex all the time. Like, why, why would, why would I not be okay with something that happened between the two of us? And I think that that can be something that can really eat away at us and kind of erode a relationship or even shut down our own desire or, or sexual identity when we are struggling with this idea that maybe, oh, God, I wish I didn't do something. I wish I had said no. Or I feel like maybe I did kind of send some signal whether it was a full on no or a partial no that my partner didn't pick up on and something still happened. But like, yeah, those are real tough.
- [29:14]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Like, consent. Consent still does exist in long term relationships. And it absolutely can get really tricky when you're, you know, when substances are in play too. I mean, we've heard so many stories of people who just had really complicated, challenging situations that they're, you know, trying to navigate the morning after. It can be really scary and tough. There's also, there's also something about, like, not being on the same page too. Like that night at the beach, you know, like, I was, I was really into it. You were not. I think also sometimes there, you know, one partner wants to get intoxicated other partner doesn't or your different levels of intoxication. It's just like these are kind of all under the umbrella of just, you know, not being on the same page, misunderstanding, misreading each other, misreading the situation. And it can just lead to a lot of, a lot of challenging circumstances. Here at the Pillow Talks podcast, we often get asked for mattress recommendations. I mean, come on, what we talk about, right?
- [30:22]
B
Mattress is an important part of your bed which is great for sleeping and great for your other activities.
- [30:29]
A
And we are so thrilled to have an incredible recommendation for you because it also brings together our passion for non toxic living. I don't know if you know this, but there are a lot of not so great materials in most mattresses. So we have to tell you about Birch mattresses. They use organic fair trade cotton, organic wool and natural latex to create luxurious mattresses that are designed to give you the best night of sleep. And we have been sleep birch mattress for a while. It is incredible. And we're pretty picky about mattresses too. We absolutely love this mattress. Birch makes it really easy for you to try out their mattresses so they ship them directly to your door. It comes rolled up in a box, super easy to set up. And because they know you just have to sleep on a mattress to like really get a sense and a feel for it, they offer a 120 night risk free trial so you can see if you love it. But seriously, this is such a comfortable mattress and the fact that it's made out of natural and organic materials honestly makes such a huge difference. And Birch has an incredible offer for you. Birch is having a flash sale for sleep awareness month so you can go to birchliving.com pillow talks to get 27% off sitewide. This is exclusive for listeners of pillow talks. That's birchliving.com Pillow talks. Substances can also lead to emotional flattening. I remember that was. I remember having experiences like that with you where I would feel, yeah, feel this sense of like kind of flatness with you. And, and like there were times where I would want to be like feeling really connected or maybe feeling really like adventurous or something and like, like. Yeah, just feeling that sense from you. And I've experienced that myself sometimes too of like it just feels like it, you know, it takes the edge off but it also.
- [32:29]
B
But then you're not all there.
- [32:30]
A
Yeah. And so it can be this strange experience like feeling that in yourself and feeling that from your partner too.
- [32:38]
B
Yeah. It's like you want a certain thing but then when you actually get down to it, it's like, are one or both of you actually capable of that? Of connecting on that level?
- [32:51]
A
There's also mood swings. Obviously, that was. That was my issue on the beach, and that was something that would come up for me a lot, you know, when I was drinking in the past, too, is like, my mood could change really quickly in general. I tended to be. Oh, this is actually something that we didn't even put on the list. But, you know, like, some people are happy drunks, some people are angry drunks, some people are sad drunks. So you can be on very different pages in that regard, too. I tended to mostly be a pretty happy drunk, but I would also. I think it would just. How do I even describe it? I would feel a lot. Like, it'd be a lot easier for me to snap at something and get irritated or angry or frustrated.
- [33:35]
B
Your tolerance? Yeah, my tolerance is much smaller, I don't think. I don't know if anyone turns into a tolerant drunk.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah, I don't think so. Poor communication.
- [33:49]
B
Yep.
- [33:49]
A
Yeah. Like, you just. You. Oh, my God. This is one of the challenges about being sober is hearing people get drunk and try to communicate. Like, yeah, people are. Oh, my God.
- [34:04]
B
They just don't hear each other.
- [34:06]
A
People can be so annoying when they're drunk. And I. I'm saying that with zero judgment because I used to be. Ye. I am sure if I could go back in time and listen to some of the things that I said and some of the conversations that you and I had while drunk, like, I would have been so embarrassed. Like, you're just. You're kind of a. People can be kind of a nightmare.
- [34:28]
B
Yeah, just. Just. Like, you shouldn't be operating a motor vehicle. You shouldn't be operating a. A relationship. Like, you shouldn't be operating a emotionally charged conversation.
- [34:40]
A
Okay, then let's get into, like, the physical aspects of it, too. Alcohol in particular can really blunt your sense of pleasure. Like, again, it's that whole take the edge off thing. But then you can also feel very blunted. So the vast majority of people say that when they're drinking, they don't feel nearly as much sensation. And so that can lead to, like, for men, it can be a lot harder to get erect. There's a whole phrase, whiskey dick for it. You know, of. Like, you want to. You're there, you're really wanting to go, but, like, you just.
- [35:14]
B
Not happening.
- [35:15]
A
Yeah, it cannot get. You cannot get an erection, or you
- [35:19]
B
got an erection, and then you struggle
- [35:21]
A
to keep it or you get an erection and you can't come.
- [35:25]
B
Yeah, you're like, oh, I'm almost there, I'm almost there. I'm almost there. Your partner's like, I'm done.
- [35:29]
A
Yeah, we hear about that a lot from women. Like after my partner's been drinking, like, you know, it's just going on forever and I feel like I'm being rubbed raw and I like want stop and I don't know how to. And you know, it just. Yeah, it can be extremely challenging. It can also lead to issues for women and vulva owners too. Like, it's a lot harder to get wet too. A lot of us. It's like much harder to orgasm. It can feel even impossible. That was definitely something that I struggled with. Like orgasm just felt so much more challenging. And I think the orgasms themselves, even when I would orgasm, like, it just doesn't feel as good. Yeah, the sensation just isn't anywhere near as good. And let's talk about some potential long term implications too. You know, habitual usage around sex can create dependence on substance to feel intimate. Like a lot of people say, you know, yeah, I need to have a glass of wine, I need to have a cocktail before we have sex. And it gets to the point where you feel like you can't have sex unless you've had that. Like you really become reliant on. And I need this thing to take that edge off for me.
- [36:35]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Like we talk about, you know, how a lot of people can feel like, oh, I have this huge to do list that's constantly running in my mind and I can't possibly have sex until I check all the things off the to do list. So it's like weird. It's like on the one hand we're like, oh, yeah, no, like having a drink or having a smoke or whatever. Like, helps me get over that. But then it's like, like really what you're doing is you're actually adding one more thing to the to do list. Like, in order for me to be able to have sex, I need to add the substance. So it's like, is it. I know it feels like you're taking like you're taking away the to do list. Like you're actually adding to it.
- [37:15]
A
There can also be like trust and even safety concerns if there have been like boundary violations or misread signals or being on different pages. Like, we do hear, we, we often hear most from women saying, you know, my partner gets drunk and like really pressures me to have sex and then,
- [37:37]
B
you know, pushes for some activity that may be like.
- [37:41]
A
Like anal.
- [37:42]
B
Yeah, it's always.
- [37:44]
A
He gets, he gets drunk and he's like, really pressuring me to have and
- [37:48]
B
then won't drop it.
- [37:49]
A
Yeah, drop it. Won't leave it alone. And then the next day he'll be like, oh, I was drunk.
- [37:54]
B
You know, just messing around.
- [37:55]
A
Yeah. As a way to kind of of like get out of it or not have to take that culpability, then. Yeah. If you feel like you're, you know, you're having this cycle over and over again, like, obviously that can really lead to some longer term implications in your relationship. And then there's the big issue of avoidance. You know, a lot of people use substances to escape relationship problems rather than addressing them. And there's also like, I think the. If you feel like intoxicated sex is very fun for you. That fun can mask deeper problems that you might have with substances where you're able to kind of keep telling yourself like, oh, I'm just, I'm just doing this to like, have some kinky sex, have some wild sex. And it's not, you know, you're not able to see that there might be a deeper issue there for you.
- [38:44]
B
Or at the very, very least, you might be avoiding any kind of red flags around your own sex life or your own desire. Like, oh, huh, I am struggling with desire or I am struggling with initiating. I know that I should be initiating with my partner, but I'm really struggling with it. But you know what helps? Once I've had a couple drinks, I got no problem initiating. So it's like, am I actually avoiding deeper issues or, you know, oh, do I have a lot of, you know, shame that comes up that is depressing my desire or keeping me from, like, making me feel super anxious about doing certain things or even having sex at all? And yeah, so, yeah, I know that it can feel like a quick fix. You know, it's kind of like putting a band aid, you know, band aid on a flesh wound. Right. Or wait, is that it? Or. No, a band aid on a bullet hole. What is the.
- [39:41]
A
Oh, no, you put a band aid on a flesh wound.
- [39:43]
B
A flesh wound.
- [39:45]
A
Me for help with an idiot.
- [39:46]
B
I mean, it's. It, you know, it's. It's like putting a band aid on something when you, When, Yeah, when what you really need is maybe, you know, a bandage. A surgical procedure. No, a surgical procedure is bad. You need, you know, you need.
- [39:59]
A
Where are you going?
- [39:59]
B
You need to see an actual doctor, not just Throw a band aid on.
- [40:04]
A
I mean, it's. It also could be, like, avoiding deeper intimacy too. Yeah, like. Like, I don't want to allow myself to open up in front of my partner. Or, you know, yeah, I have to use this as a crutch in order to, like, feign intimacy with my partner. So, yeah, obviously a lot of different dynamics can come up.
- [40:24]
B
Yeah, I mean, actually, it kind of reminds me, it's an interesting comparison to the advice that you give women when women ask, hey, I struggle with orgasm with my partner, but. But I can use a vibrator, no problem. So, like, I masturbate with a vibrator 100% of the time. Is that a problem? And the general advice is, well, it's not a problem if you're fine with that being the only way that you're ever gonna orgasm. But I'm pretty sure that that's not fine because you're saying, hey, I'm struggling to have an orgasm with my partner. I would like to be able to experience that with my partner. My partner would like to experience that, that with me. And so the answer is, if the way that you make yourself come 100% of the time is a certain way, you've trained yourself to only be able to do it in that way. And I think the same can be true can be said about any kind of substances. If you are finding that the only way you feel comfortable doing something is by adding a certain substance or the only way you feel comfortable initiating, or the only way you feel. Feel comfortable like, or, you know, being able to, like, get the anxiety to go away or get the to do list to forget about the to do list or whatever, then you are creating a situation where you are completely dependent on that. And, you know, so, yeah, like, you don't want to be in a situation where the only way that you can do something is a very specific way.
- [41:51]
A
Focus features in Blumhouse present Obsession. When I have a crush on a guy no one knows, be careful.
- [41:58]
B
I wish Nikki loved me more than anyone in the entire world.
- [42:01]
A
Who you wish for obsession is 96% fresh on rotten Tomatoes.
- [42:06]
B
I love you so, so, so, so much.
- [42:09]
A
It's blood soaked nightmare fuel.
- [42:12]
B
Brooke, I suppose you put on her.
- [42:14]
A
You have been warned. Obsession. Rated R under 17. Animated without parent. Only in theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby.
- [42:21]
B
So if you find that, hey, it's fun to have an edible every now and then and have sex, great. Hell yeah, keep doing it. Like, who am I to tell you not to do that if you're finding that, man, it's really. I really struggle to be open to sex at all unless I do this. That's an invitation to look at. Hey, instead of using this temporary solution, maybe it's an invitation to address what is the underlying issue. Because I promise you there are real solutions to every single one of the things that you think that the alcohol or the, the weed or whatever drug is. Is helping you with. There are real solutions to be able to have that same experience, if not better sober.
- [43:06]
A
Yeah, I think you, you really hit the nail on the head there that it's, it's the moderation issue, you know, like the. Yeah, for some people, not for me, sadly, anytime. But for some people, it definitely can be an enjoyable experience and you know, maybe something that you do every once in a while and it, you know, it feels fun and it's bit different and it says, yeah, different kind of experience. But if it is something that you feel like you can't have a good sex life without it or you find yourself like. Yeah. Turning to it over and over again, I mean, it is an invitation just to.
- [43:41]
B
I'd say if you're finding yourself needing to do this over 50%, if you're approaching 50% of the time, that's pretty high. I mean, I'm. I don't know, I'm trying to make this, you know, not. But you know, if you're finding that more often than not, you need XYZ in order to do. Do abc. That's an invitation to. Hey, let's, let's try to figure out if I can, you know, solve this problem. All right, guys, we gotta talk about something, and that is buying seafood. I'm really curious. When is the last time that you really trusted the seafood that you brought home with you from the store? I know that that is something that I have struggled with. It's really hard to tell at the store. Like, is something fresh? Was it frozen before? How many days has it been wherever it is supposedly coming from now? Those were the kind of questions that we used to struggle with before we found the Wild Alaskan Company. The Wild Alaskan Company is the best way to get wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. Trust me, you have not tasted fish this good. All their seafood is 100% wild caught, never farmed and sustainably sourced wild caught in Alaska. When we got our first box of Wild Alaskan, I was, was so impressed. Like it is packed with dry ice. Everything arrived super frozen. It definitely could have even been in transit for a couple more days without defrosting. That's. I was just so impressed by that part of it. And the quality is next level. This is such good fish. Plus it feels good knowing that every single one of our orders supports sustainable harvesting practices, which is something that's important to Vanessa and me. And you can try Wild Alaskan completely risk free. If you are not completely satisfied with your food first box Wild Alaskan will give you a full refund, no questions asked. So no risk, just high quality seafood. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com pillow for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wild alaskan.com pillow for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. Episode.
- [45:59]
A
You are probably not drinking enough water. So many people aren't. And if you're somebody who struggles to stay hydrated, then we want to introduce you to Cure. They make these clean and simple plant based electrolytes with no added sugar. They have incredible flavors like watermelon, berry, pomegranate and lemonade. They come in these really convenient little packets. You can just throw a couple in your purse in your car. Xander takes them when he goes surfing the time just to like quickly and easily rehydrate. They also have an incredible energy drink mix that has a plant based 100 milligrams of natural caffeine plus electrolytes for focus and hydration, but without any jitters or crash. That energy drink mix comes in great flavors like peach tea or acai berry. I think you like the peach tea one.
- [46:46]
B
I love the peach tea one.
- [46:48]
A
Yeah. Xander just went on a big surfing trip and you had them like every day, just like multiple times a day, I think just like trying to replenish all that.
- [46:55]
B
Oh yeah, no, nothing. Nothing tastes better than one of these things after two hours surfing. So yeah, after, you know, whatever it is, your workout, your activity of choice, it tastes so good having electrolytes. And these cure packets really just taste so, so good compared to most of the other ones I've ever tried.
- [47:15]
A
Staying hydrated isn't just about water. You also need electrolytes. That's why we love Cure. It's clean and tastes great. You can grab Cure on Amazon or find a store near you@cure hydration.com Pill pillow, real ingredients, real hydration. Okay, so let's get into some of the questions from our community. I'm going to ask you. The first one is sober sex Awkward at first. This is something that, like, yeah, we do get this question a lot from people who are pretty reliant on substances during their sex life. Like, the idea of having a fully sober sex life feels very scary. And we've actually heard about this from a lot of people who reach out to us after hearing your episodes about sobriety, like on this podcast, and saying like, hey, that podcast really opened my eyes. I'm thinking about getting sober, but I'm really worried about having a totally sober sex life. Like, that sounds very scary.
- [48:14]
B
Yeah, I mean, this is a, this is a very real thing, you know, for us. Fortunately for us, this isn't something that we, we dealt with in our own relationship because we always had had a mix of. Even when things were tough for me, we also were still having a good mix of sober sex as well. So for me, when I got sober, it was not a situation where that was a foreign concept to me. But yeah, I know a lot of people that I know from the recovery community have been through that where it's like, oh, no, I, for the last five years have not had sober sex once. I don't know how to do it anymore. And that is a very, very, very real thing. So, yes, it is going to be awkward at first. The same way that, say, maybe the first couple times you have sex when you are a teenager or when you are having your sexual debut, it can be awkward, right? Because it is a new thing, it's a new experience. You don't have the tools yet for how to do that. You're building connection with someone. You know, even if, like you are in a long term relationship with someone and you have sex for the very first time, there's going to be some awkwardness, right? You are still figuring out how each other works and what this new element in your relationship is. So I think the same is going to be true when you switch to having sober sex. Now, I think one of the biggest things, the most important things to get over the awkwardness is, well, one, don't expect it to not be awkward. You have to lean into the awkwardness. You have to accept the fact, yes, this is gonna, of course it's gonna be awkward. It's been forever since I've had sober sex or I've never had sober sex, whatever. So accept that. But then two is acknowledge, like with your partner, hey, hey, I'm feeling a bit anxious about this because I've never had, I've never, you know, I haven't had sober sex in a long time. And I'm worried about what it might, might be like just being able to acknowledge that with your partner that is laying some emotional groundwork. Right. Because the more connected you feel to your partner, the easier this is going to go. Most people have been having not sober sex to mask, you know, maybe a lack of emotional connection in the relationship. Right. Or to kind of jump start, to kind of like throw like lighter fluid on the sort of like a low level of emotional connection can be masked by being like, oh, yeah, I'm, I'm really drunk or I'm really high. Like, oh, yeah, we're so excited about this. So I think that just accepting, yes, it's going to be awkward. And then acknowledging with your partner, Partner, hey, here are some of my concerns. Let's talk about it. You're going to start to feel closer and you're going to start to realize, oh yeah, the bar is actually going to get lowered the more I talk to my partner about what I'm scared of. Because your partner's probably going to be like, oh, yeah, no, I'm not expecting this to be fireworks. Yeah, this is going to be a new thing and we're going to figure it out together.
- [51:23]
A
Also, I mean, you and I talk so much about how awkwardness just, just is a part of sex. Like, sex is awkward.
- [51:31]
B
Yeah. I mean that, and that can be fun and sexy once you, once you begin to love the awkwardness.
- [51:36]
A
Yeah, it's just like being able to embrace that. Like, yeah, sex is awkward. That just a part of it. That doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. I mean, and awkwardness actually has the potential to create a lot of closeness and intimacy. Like, some of our favorite sexual memories together have been times that were really awkward and we just like leaned into it and we laughed together and we made silly jokes out of it and we just were like in that moment with each other. I mean, intimacy, the whole point of intimacy is truly seeing each other is feeling like you don't have to put masks on or act in front of each other. You can just be your full self with your partner. And most of us are just a little bit awkward. So, like, why would we not be that way in the bedroom too? So the more you learn to embrace awkwardness and lean into it, it doesn't feel so scary anymore. It actually feels really connected. Okay, let's move on to the next question. My libido is really low. Should I try smoking weed? No. A lot of people have this idea in their heads that libido, like that Smoking weed increases your libido. And like, I think that that's really more about the placebo effect of it, where people think, like, oh, my inhibitions are going to be lowered and I'm going to, like, my head's going to, My brain's going to turn off a little bit. But we don't have any sort of research show that weed increases libido. And I certainly would not look at it as, like, a solution for increasing your libido. We have tons of other pillow talks, podcast episodes about libido and the ways that most people really misunderstand what libido really is and how it works and the truth about how it actually works. So definitely go check out those episodes, but don't use weed.
- [53:25]
B
Let's say that smoking weed did increase your libido. Then would you like, then what? What would you use that information for? Then you'd be like, oh, well, I have to just become a total stoner then in order to have a stable high libido. Right? Like, you're not going to want to be like, oh, yeah, great, it really jacks my libido up. And now I just got to be high all the time.
- [53:49]
A
All the time.
- [53:50]
B
Like, that doesn't really, really make sense. And again, it doesn't really, you know, it. Then it means that your ability to have sex is going to be completely dependent on your ability to get high.
- [54:02]
A
Yeah.
- [54:03]
B
Right. So unless that's what you want, which I doubt it is, if you've gotten this far in the episode, then that's probably, probably not the first thing to start trying. But, I mean, placebo is a hell of a drug. It really is. You might as well tell yourself, well, going to the gym is gonna increase my libido. I mean, cool, because it might.
- [54:22]
A
It will, it will, it will.
- [54:24]
B
You tell yourself that like, you know, you might as well tell yourself to do something else that also will be a net positive for you. Because if you tell yourself you really believe that that is going to increase your libido, it probably will just the same that, you know, smoking weed. Because, I mean, that's the thing, like you were saying is a lot of people hear this rumor. Oh, yeah, no, it's going to increase my libido. So if you start smoking weed going, oh, I can't wait till my libido is higher in five minutes, then there's a good likelihood that you will actually feel like your libido is higher in five min. So just do something else and tell yourself it's gonna increase. Your libido. Okay, next question. How do I start the conversation with my partner that having sex under the influence makes me feel uncomfortable?
- [55:05]
A
Okay. I would take complete and utter ownership of this and just talk about your own experience. You know, I talked earlier in this episode about how a lot of people can feel very defensive about their usage. And I think if you go to your partner and say, like, I don't wanna have, you know, sex with you when you've been drinking, like, they're gonna immediately get on the defensive. Now, if there is an actual issue here, like, your partner's been, you know, pressuring you when they're drunk, there have been unsafe situations, like, anything like that, then that is something that you do need to talk about. And I would highly recommend that you talk about it with a therapist, like, somebody skilled to help you guys, like, navigate that. But I'm just. Let's just assume this is a kind of standard situation where it's just like, yeah, I, you know, my partner is just kind of obnoxious when they're drunk.
- [55:51]
B
Yeah. And to be really clear, we are not saying that you cannot not have a conversation with your partner about their drinking or about their drug usage. You absolutely can. If you want to have a conversation about that. Have a conversation about that. Don't bring sex.
- [56:04]
A
Yeah.
- [56:04]
B
Into it. Let's keep these as separate things, I think, is what we're trying to get at.
- [56:08]
A
Yeah.
- [56:08]
B
Here.
- [56:09]
A
So. Yeah. So in a situation like this, I would just say something like. I would talk about, like, whatever impacts you notice from your own usage. So maybe it's like, hey, I've been noticing that, you know, when I've been drinking, I just don't really feel any sensation, or it's harder for me to get wet, or it's harder for me to get an erection, whatever it is. And I'm thinking that going forward, like, I really just want to. I only want to have sex when you and I are sober. And you can say too, like, yeah, it's. I think it would be, you know, personally, I know that I just want to be sober when we're having sex now. And I don't want to, you know, control what you're doing. But it just, you know, it can be a little weird when, like, one. One of us is sober and the other one is not. So I'm just thinking it might be better overall for us to, you know, only have sex when we're both sober.
- [56:57]
B
Yeah. I think it's fair to be, like, you know, and, you know, since I don't want to be having sex when I'm not sober. You know, I. I am aware that, you know, it, you know, there's the, the level of connection between us just feels a little different if I, you know, if I know I'm sober and you're really drunk or you're. Whatever. So it's like you're not saying, oh, you're a bad person when you're drunk or you're a bad person when you're high. Whatever, whatever. That's not what we're saying. And I don't think that's what your partner will hear. But you're just saying. Because I think everyone can acknowledge that when one person is stone cold sober and the other person is not, it's a different vibe. Right. I think it's fair to just be like, hey, yeah, it's a different vibe like that. And it doesn't feel, to me, if I'm sober, it doesn't feel like a sexy vibe.
- [57:43]
A
Yeah. Or you could also just phrase it more positively about the positive aspects of sober sex. Sex?
- [57:52]
B
Yeah.
- [57:52]
A
Of telling your partner, like, hey, I've just noticed, like, when we're both, like when we haven't been drinking, I feel so much closer to you. I feel like I'm so much more present in the moment. I.
- [58:03]
B
It feels better.
- [58:04]
A
It feels better.
- [58:05]
B
You know, whatever it is, I feel closer to you.
- [58:07]
A
Yeah. So, like, it's just so good. When I'm sober, I'm thinking that, like, that's how I want us to be having sex every time. Something like that. So that's another great way to put it. Okay, Xander, how do I handle a husband that only touches me when he is drunk?
- [58:22]
B
Oh, I'm sorry that this is your experience. This is a tough one.
- [58:27]
A
Yeah.
- [58:29]
B
This, to me, this feels like a situation where you're starting to really get into the territory where this might be something good to address. In couples therapy, it's hard to know
- [58:42]
A
from like a one sentence question. Like, there could be other things going on maybe that the husband is just really dealing with, like a lot of shame or self consciousness or embarrassment. Like, I don't know, it's hard to tell. Like, I definitely, you know, I'm. I'm always going to be a proponent for people doing couples therapy. It's always a good idea. But yeah, it's. It's hard to know, like, exactly what is the root of this issue going on here? Okay, Xander, last question. What do you do if you're the one who's been using substances to get in the mood. And now you want to change that?
- [59:13]
B
Yeah, well, I mean, I think this is what. This is why we do what we do. I mean, basically. Basically. Okay, let's take the substances out of it for a second. Like, you gotta start thinking, okay, so what. When I am not using substances, what feels like it's getting in the way of me being in the mood? Is it that my to do list is a million miles long and I can't or don't think about sex until. Until I can have that everything on the to do list checked off? Is it that I was raised with a lot of shame? Shame around sex, or maybe, you know, a lot of religious shame around sex where, you know, I thought sex was bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. And then I got married, and all of a sudden sex is good, good, good. But, like, I couldn't flip the switch. Right? Like, that's an experience a lot of people have. Is it that you're really uncomfortable initiating sex or you're really scared of rejection and so you don't want to, you know, you don't want to initiate? Like, so, yeah, what is. What is the blockage there? And then I think, you know, then it's starting to think about, okay, how do we address each of those individual things?
- [60:30]
A
I mean, I also, like, I wonder if this person is just overthinking it too. Like, and now you want to change that. Just stop using substances. See how it goes. Like, you might be getting a little in your head about it, wondering, like, oh, is everything going to change? And am I going to need to make an. Like, my sex life is gonna be totally different? Like, maybe it won't. Maybe you just stop using them and it's just fine.
- [60:52]
B
It might be. I mean, I think. I think another. Another thing that people really get in their heads about with sex and being in the mood. Is this idea that I need to be being in the mood or, like, I need to be in the mood to have sex and to be in the mood, I need to feel, like, wildly horny. And I think that that is total bullshit.
- [61:14]
A
Oh, yeah, this idea. We talk a lot about this, desires over this idea.
- [61:17]
B
I am very rarely wildly horny until we start doing something. That's when I feel wildly horny. Right. Is once we start doing something. So instead of being like, oh, God, I need XYZ in order to get into the mood, go to your partner and be like, hey, it would be really fun to get in the mood and have sex with you. Let's get in the mood to get what do we do? What? Like, what do you do to get in the mood with your partner? Well, you probably start kissing them. You probably start touching them. You start taking each other's clothes off. Like, you. You make the mood together. Right? So I think that we just so get in our heads of, like. Yeah, like, you need to feel a very specific thing in order to even open the conversation about sex. You can open the conversation about sex whenever you want. You can open the conversation about getting in the movie mood whenever you want. I think that's one of the reasons why Vanessa and I have probably more and definitely better sex now, you know, in our 40s than we did in our 20s, is because both of us almost always say yes to the other person, even if we are not in the mood, because we see the invitation. Not as, are you wildly horny and do you want to have sex with me at this very moment? The invitation is, are you open to getting turned on with me right now? And 99.9% of the time, we get each other wildly turned on because we. We know how each other's bodies work, and we know what we like. Right. And I think the same is true for everybody else. We just have forgotten that we have that option.
- [63:03]
A
All right, well, we're gonna wrap it up here. We'd love to know what you thought about this episode. You can leave a comment for us on Spotify. You can come on over to Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Xander, and send us a dm, but we'd love to hear your thoughts. All right, thanks so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.