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Pillow Talks
E262: The Sex Personality Quiz Every Couple Needs (And What Your Type Says About You)
01:07:51
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- [00:00]
A
For the anchor, the most important things are communication and pleasure. And I so know I'm an anchor because I see that and I'm like, yeah, obviously those are the most important things with sex.
- [00:13]
B
No, they're not.
- [00:21]
A
Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20
- [00:29]
B
years of experience, and I'm just a regular dud. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.
- [00:38]
A
Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. If you have ever felt like you and your partner are just speaking different languages when it comes to sex, today's episode is for you. We are going to go over our pretty new. It's not brand new. When do we come up with this? Maybe two or three months ago.
- [01:12]
B
Oh, I'm not sure. Like, maybe a couple months. Maybe up to six months.
- [01:16]
A
Okay, well, so this is our sex personality types model. And actually it is revamped because I originally came up with a sex personality types model many, many years ago. Originally it 11 different types. And I was going through and taking another look at it and thinking, you know what, I think we can make this a little bit tighter. So we've narrowed it down to five personality types.
- [01:43]
B
And these are in contrast to, you know, some of the other models you might have heard us talk about. Like, we have initiation style. So that's.
- [01:50]
A
We like making models.
- [01:51]
B
We do well. But I think it's, it's helpful to understand to, to categorize yourself. Yeah, obviously not everyone fits 100% cleanly in every category of any of these. You're going to find things that you relate with other ones. Possibly you might find yourself really cleanly typed, but you might find bits and pieces of yourself elsewhere. But the idea is to identify with, you know, a majority of one of these types. But anyway, yeah, like, I, I do want to clarify, this is not a there, there is no be all, end all model when it comes to sex. Because the reality is there are different ways that we feel desire for sex, different ways that the idea of sex sounds good throughout the day to us or doesn't sound good throughout the day to us. So that's kind of like our sex types model. Then there are different ways that we like sex to start. Like, how do we want the invitation to sex, to feel. And that's our initiation styles and the sex personality types is kind of like, how do we want it to feel in the moment? And I think that's a big. That's a big unlock for a lot of people because I think up until we started doing this, I kind of thought. I just assumed, oh, well, like, sex feels good. We all want it to feel. It's just like we're all, like, trying to get an orgasm. We are all trying to get it to, you know, that experience of it feeling good is the same for all of us.
- [03:10]
A
Nope.
- [03:11]
B
And it is not. It is. Not at all. And the more, you know, the more open Vanessa and I have been with each other about what our experiences with sex are. I'm like, oh, huh. That's interesting. We. We experience the. The feeling of sex, the idea of sex, what it is that we're looking to get out of it, how we're looking to feel in the moment. Like, those are. Those are different. There are some similarities, but there's also differences. And those differences lead to different ways that we show up in terms of, like, you know, all the other way. Like, how. How often we want it, how, how and when we ask for it, how and when we want to talk about it, how and when we decide that there might be a problem with what's going on.
- [03:54]
A
Yeah. I originally got the idea to create a sex personality types model back in the day when I was working with people, you know, two on one in my office. I remember having this se with a couple where they were talking about their sex life, and the guy was talking about it in such a positive way, the woman was talking about it in a really negative way. And I was a little baby therapist at the time, and I just remember thinking, like, what is going on here? Like, they. These two people had sex with each other. They had the same objective experience, but the ways that they are describing it were just so vastly different. So it got me really curious to start trying to conceptualize, like, how can we have such different experiences of the same thing sexually? And I remember, I think it was maybe a couple months later just being in my office, and I spread out all of my session notes on the ground. I used to write all my session notes by hand. And I remember just, like, leafing through all of them, looking at all these different couples that I'd worked with and trying to find these different threads. So that was the beginning of the sex personality types model. And yeah, originally I did come up with 11. It was overkill. It Actually reminds me of our book Sex Talks, the original proposal for the book. So the book is Sex Talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life. The original proposal was 14 conversations, and our editor was like, vanessa, nobody wants to do 14 of anything. Can you cut this down to five, though?
- [05:36]
B
I mean, though, the interesting thing. Thing, and this is why it's great having a great editor, someone that can kind of look objectively at it, was that she. Her point wasn't, oh, you have 13 or 14 completely different and unique and separate things that you want couples to talk about. She was like, there are a lot of similarities between these things. We can come up with five categories, and maybe not every single one of those 14 goes cleanly into one of them, but, like, we can still share nearly the same amount of information, but. But put them into categories that make a lot more sense. And I feel like that's what we did with the personality types. And we were like, yeah, no one wants to look through 11 of anything. And, you know, and especially, yeah, maybe you look through 11, you find out your types, but it's hard to remember what all 11 are, right? And as we were looking through them, we were like, God, there's a lot of similarities between some of these. And also it's like. Like, I don't even know how. How do you draw the line between some of these? Like, they're getting at very similar things, but, like, in a very subtle way. And we were like, we need to come up with, you know, maybe four to five of something. You know, that's a lot more. It's easier to. To separate people into four to five groups. And I think then it's. It's easier when we can get ourselves into a group and then have a better understanding of what the other groups are.
- [06:58]
A
But I'm glad you made the point about, like, the way that we look at models. It's not to put people in boxes, obviously. Like, you cannot take 7 billion people and neatly categorize them into five little categories. And one of the things that we love so much about doing this work is the incredible diversity, like, how unique and different we all are. So the intention is not, like, get in this little box. This is exactly. Defines you. But I think the reason that I like coming up with models so much is that it creates a framework to have a conversation. So I think this is a fantastic episode to listen to with your partner. Listen to us break down each type and start asking yourselves, like, which one do you resonate with the most? In what ways does that really feel like you and maybe in other ways. Does it feel like a bit of a miss or you're a little bit more of this type and this type combined?
- [07:48]
B
Yeah. Where can you see a little bit of yourself in. In one of these types? And yeah, how do you or don't you relate to certain ways that this type might perceive something or want something
- [07:59]
A
and then for your partner to be able to do the same thing and then you guys to talk about, well, how do we think our types might overlap? How might they work really well together? What might challenge us? So it's really just designed to open up a conversation and ultimately, like, if the two of you are having a conversation about what you each look for in sex, what experience you're hoping to have, what you're hoping to feel feel at the end, that's going to be an incredibly beneficial conversation for any couple to have. So that's our goal in this episode. We're going to be breaking down each of the five types in detail. Like what drives it, how it shows up in your relationship, and how to use this insight to create a more connected and satisfying sex life with your partner. Also, we have a quiz. If you prefer to take a quiz, it takes just a couple minutes, just a few super quick questions.
- [08:50]
B
Yeah. If you want instant gratification so that you go into listening to this knowing, oh, this is me, they're gonna. They're gonna really describe me in more detail.
- [08:58]
A
Yeah. You can go straight to vmtherapy.com and you'll see it right at the top of our website. There's a blue button that says, take the quiz. There's a little swirly arrow pointing right to it. So you can just tap that, take the quiz, and it will tell you what your type is and give you some extra little tidbits that we are not gonna cover in this episode. But before we get into it, we wanted to ask a quick favor. If you enjoy pillow talks, if made you laugh, taught you something, given you a useful little nugget to share with your partner, we would greatly appreciate your support. The vast majority of people who listen to the show do not actually follow the show. And all it does is take one little tap, just hit that follow button wherever you listen to your podcast.
- [09:46]
B
Helps us so much.
- [09:47]
A
It helps so much. And if you really want to go above and beyond, if you want the gold star A, we would love if you left a review. It does not have to be anything long or complicated. It could just literally be a sentence of like, I like this podcast, it's useful, it's fun to listen to. These guys are dorks, but they teach me stuff. You know, whenever people are looking for a new podcast, people look at the ratings and reviews like, you're not gonna. If you find a podcast and it's got a 2.7 stars and three bad reviews, like, you're not gonna listen to it, right? But if you see people saying, I like this podcast, it's useful, it's worth you listening to, you're way more likely to listen to it. So these little things really help the podcast survive and be successful. Like I think we've shared before, this is not a money maker for us. This is a real labor of love, like the amount of time and effort that goes into this. We're like, you know, it's a labor of love. So we really appreciate these little acts of support that lets us continue doing this so we can provide it free to everybody. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much in advance for your support. It really, really means a lot to us. Okay, so let's get into the five types. Oh, and I forgot one other thing that we did when we were making this model is we actually layered it over another model, like models on models. So when we were creating our book Sex Talks, I just mentioned that, right? We boiled it down to these five conversations. And ultimately what these five conversations ended up being is we realize, like, these are really the five keys to an extraordinary sex life. So those five keys are communication, connection, desire, pleasure, and exploration. Though if you have those five things in place, you will have an extraordinary sex life. So Sex Talks, the book walks you through talking about each of those five keys. But we thought, I wonder if there's a way to kind of layer this onto the sex personality types model and see, like, what specific dynamics are each of these types really wanting to bring into the bedroom.
- [11:59]
B
Yeah. What is most important? What is what is most important? Because, yeah, like Vanessa said, you need to have a balance of all five of those. Those elements in your sex life to. To have a successful, long term, exciting, happy sex life and relationship. That being said, I think that some of us naturally gravitate to certain areas. Some of us really like to communicate more than others. Some of us are really focused, you know, really enjoy that feeling of intense desire. Some of us are looking for, you know, like, the thing that we think about when it comes to sex is the pleasure. Some people, it's like, I want to be trying new things. Like, that's a lifelong thing that I Want. And so we are each more inclined towards certain areas, and that can be a strength. It can also be a detriment because when we don't realize that we can just go over, go all in on a certain area and it's like, oh, yeah, no, like, all sex is, to me is exploration. And if that's not what it is to my partner, it can be like, oh, my God, we're just completely incompatible.
- [12:58]
A
So what we found is that there were two keys that overlapped onto each of the five personality types. So we're getting started with the first type. And these are in no order. This is not, like, number one is better, just the first one that we're going to talk about.
- [13:12]
B
Well, I actually, I do think that this for. I, I like talking about this one first because I think that this is very much the. The Hollywood portrayal of sex. This is. This. Is this true. This, this is a very stereotypical male sex personality type. And not only that, but it is also a. Just. This is the way that sex is portrayed from a personality perspective on TV and in the movies. And I think that this is a type that many of us think that we should be and try to. And then beat ourselves up over when we find that we're not. So I think it's good to talk about it first, especially in the context of. This is just one of five.
- [13:52]
A
Yeah.
- [13:53]
B
This is a lie that you have been fed most or all of your life, and you might be continuing to feed yourself. So let's talk about and get out of the way first.
- [14:01]
A
Okay. So the first type is the fire starter. And fire starters are primarily focused on these two areas, desire and pleasure. The third and fourth of the five,
- [14:14]
B
hence the name fire starter. Yes.
- [14:17]
A
So fire starters, they are all about spontaneity, intensity, and that physical experience of sex. Like the release of sex.
- [14:26]
B
Yeah. You want to. You want to feel that desire and then you want to get off.
- [14:30]
A
Yeah. So you want sex that feels like organic, urgent, passionate, alive. Firestarters are really into spontaneity. Like just that thrilling feeling of, I want you right now. I have to have you right now. You want me in return?
- [14:46]
B
Yeah, I want you to want me right now. Which is where that can start to be a problem. We'll talk about that later.
- [14:52]
A
For you, sex is all about unwinding, resetting, releasing. It's almost like a way that you. You, like, have that release and then you get to, like, kind of settle back down and like, how do you feel?
- [15:07]
B
Like yourself? You're like, ah, yes, I'M I'm. I'm back to calm, to even. Even keeled. I feel okay. Like, that's. I think that really is. It's like, it's a relief. Ah, okay. Everything is okay.
- [15:21]
A
One of the types that we blended into this, like, from the old model, it was called the decompressor. And that was like, for decompressors, it was literally like sex was just about that release. You needed to let it go. So for each of these types, we're going to talk about, like, their superpowers, their shadow sides, and opportunities for growth. So with the fire starter, you know, like Xander was saying, a lot of us have in our heads, like, oh, this is the type that we're supposed to be, because this is how we see it on movies. And yes, it definitely is fun to feel that heat, that excitement, the passion, the energy. It. Sex with a fire starter can feel very invigorating. It just feels alive and passionate. And I think in those, you know, so many of us can struggle sometimes with life just feeling really mundane. And let's be honest, sex can feel pretty mundane sometimes, too. So the. The joy, the superpower of the fire starters that they're able to bring this intensity and aliveness into sex, it can feel really fun.
- [16:24]
B
So they can kind of serve almost like as a. Like a jumper cable, like in a car.
- [16:28]
A
Right.
- [16:29]
B
Like, like, oh, like, oh, my battery's dead. Like, you need that extra spark. And it's like, oh, yeah, fire starter here. Yeah, I got the cables.
- [16:36]
A
I got it. I was also thinking about your favorite word, the zing.
- [16:39]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [16:40]
A
Fire starters have the zing, that's for sure. Okay. But the shadow side, or the challenges of being a starter, fire starter, is that fire starters can resist structure or routine.
- [16:55]
B
Yeah. Obviously, because they are looking. We talk about spontaneity, Right. You want that. That desire to come out of nowhere to do you want your partner to want you in that same sort of way. And so any kind of structure can feel antithetical to Wait. But, but. But I want.
- [17:12]
A
It's not the way I want it.
- [17:13]
B
I want it to feel natural.
- [17:14]
A
I want it to feel organic. I don't want us to have to put effort into it. So as a result, you can actually miss out on opportunities for connection with your partner because you're so fixated on that spontaneity. And you can see very easily how this can lead to issues if your partner is not a fire starter, which, by the way, we forgot to mention, it's highly likely that you and your Partner are different types. We are different types of. In our.
- [17:37]
B
Yeah. I mean, well, if there's five types, the stats would say you're more likely than not to not be the same type.
- [17:42]
A
Yeah. And that. That does not mean you're incompatible. That does not mean it can't work between the two of you. It's just we're different people. That is how it is. So the growth opportunity for the firestarter is learning that passion doesn't always have to require surprise. This is something that we talk about a lot when we talk about spontaneity, because the reality is the vast majority of us do not lead lives that are compatible with spontaneity. We. We literally don't have the space or time in our lives for spontaneity, especially as we age.
- [18:14]
B
I feel like this is one of those things where it's. Where. Yeah, like, in our earlier years, high school, college, you know, young 20s, is sort of like, that is the time in our lives where we have the space to be spontaneous. And not just sex, but in all areas of our lives. And as we start to settle down more as we. To age, maybe start a family, you know, build a home together, that kind of thing, the opportunities for spontaneity, unless you specifically build a life all around, spontaneity tend to decrease. And for most people, we tend to start to appreciate the structure in life. And so I think that can be a challenge with a fire starter, because I think that rationally, a fire starter can know, okay, yeah, like, structure is good, but it can feel like sex is the one area where, like, I don't want that. And then the. Yeah. And then the other kind of shadow part of that is that if you feel like. Is that you feel like, passion. Having that passion, having that excitement, that is spontaneous. That is the proof of being in a good relationship. That is the proof of connection. Like, it's like, yeah, we don't feel connected unless we have that. And so I think it can be easy for fire starters to. To almost start to doubt their relationship or feel disconnected if they don't have sex happening in a very specific way. And so that can be. That can be a challenge, especially as we talk about people, types that are a little more connection or connection first oriented.
- [19:59]
A
Yeah. So I think the learning for the firestarter is recognizing that you can create passion and intensity without having spontaneity. And actually, I think very often that anticipation and buildup can create even more of that feeling than just the, like, imagine this. You spend a whole day Thinking about, I can't wait to see my partner when we get home at night. I hear all the things that I want to do to them. We're texting back and forth about what it's going to be like versus, oh, I see you and I just want to tear your clothes off right now. Like there's a whole day where you can be building that excitement and energy versus a 2 second window of like, let's go now, you know. So spontaneity isn't the only way to create passion. So trying to lean in to the energy that you can build through anticipation too. Another thing that you can do, especially if you have a partner who likes a little bit more structure or you guys lead a life that needs a little bit more structure, is like creating rituals around sex that feel exciting. So we have talked a lot about scheduled sex and how people look at it in a very negative way. It feels like this cold, like, okay, It's Wednesday at 8:39pm and we scheduled it, so we have to have it now. Obviously if you schedule sex in that way, it's going to feel really boring. But instead there are other ways of like creating rituals or having, you know, date nights that give you the room for passion and spontaneity, but also have the structure in place.
- [21:35]
B
Yeah. Where it's like you plan the structure, you plan the, you know, you create an outline of what you want to do, you create the bounds of what you want to do. You're not, you're, you don't need to agree on or plan the details. Okay, so we're going to go on this date and then exactly at this time, then we're going to start kissing and five minutes after that we're going to start having sex. You know, like, it doesn't have to look like that, but I think that, that fire starters can be wired to assume as soon as you start talking about planning anything that it's gonna, it has to be like full, full, full, full planning, like to every single gory detail. And that is not at all what we're talking about. And one other area of growth, I think for a fire starter, once you realize this is your type to say, huh, that might not be fair or reasonable, that sex is the one area where I allow myself to have spontaneity. And maybe you can think about what are other areas in your life where you could create some space to experience spontaneity, you know, whether that is with your partner or without your partner. And I'm not talking about sex at all but just, like, with activities or trips or whatever, like, where else might you be able to get that spontaneity fix? Because I think that what often happens, like I was saying, we get older and older, Our lives have more and more structure, and we feel like we kind of want to rebel against that structure. And it's like, okay, sex is. Sex is the pressure release valve. That's where it happens. But think about, hey, could I maybe get that somewhere else? And I think that if you can find a way to incorporate some more spontaneity in your life in other areas, you might find yourself being a little less rigid when it comes to sex and needing it to be a certain way.
- [23:25]
A
Okay, so let's move on to the connector type. And I think that this is a great one to discuss after the fire starter, because it's really the polar opposite. Yeah. And this is the more stereotypically feminine role in sex.
- [23:42]
B
Yeah, yeah. Fire starter is like, the stereotypical male connector is probably. Yeah, it is the stereotypical female. That is not to say that all men are firestarters and all women are connectors. We got three more types, and I think that once you hear them, you might be surprised that, like, oh, yeah, I'm a guy, and I'm actually one of these other ones, or I'm a woman, and I'm one of these other ones. But I think that this is. When we talk about sort of like the. The way that men work or the way that women work, we tend to assume that it should work like firestarter for the guy, and really, women should aspire to that. But instead, where they're stuck is this connector type, which is not a helpful way to think about it.
- [24:19]
A
So the connector, their two main priorities are communication and connection. The first and second of the five keys, their core drive is emotional intimacy and being understood. So we have talked a lot before about the interplay between physical intimacy and emotional intimacy and the reality that some people want to feel emotionally close before they're open to having sex. And some people want to have sex as a way to feel safe being emotionally open and closed. And typically, one of each of those types is in a relationship. And we get into this argument of, I like, why would I want to have sex with you? We're so disconnected. And the other person says, yeah, we're disconnected. That's why we need to have sex. So like we said stereotypically, women are ones who tend to want emotional connection first, but it's the opposite in our relationship. I want physical intimacy first. Physical intimacy is a way to open up emotional intimacy for me. Zander wants emotional intimacy first. So it's not, you know, the stereotype is a stereotype, but it's not always true for every couple. So for the connector, they are. They absolutely, like, want to experience that emotional intimacy before they are open to having sex. They need to have trust. There needs to be vulnerability. They need to feel like their partner. Partner is genuinely curious and interested in them as a human being. So sex unfolds from that bond, like, but that bond needs to be there first. So the superpower for the connector is that you are able to really lead with heart, and you can create these sexual experiences that feel very deep and very meaningful and alive in a different sort of way than the firestarter does. Yeah.
- [26:13]
B
Instead of like this, I almost think of it like, you know, you can. There's two ways that you can light a fire, right? You got a pile of wood. You can. You can spray lighter fluid on it, and you can throw the match on, and it will look like it goes up in flames really quick, and it'll probably light, but it will. You know, the fire will come way back down. It'll take a long time to get it back to, like, a roaring fire. Or you can, you know, maybe ball up the newspaper, get some kindling, build a little kind of like, you know, structure with that, with the logs on top of it, and then light it. And, you know, so you've put that groundwork in, and you're going to start a much bigger fire much quicker once you start lighting it. But you had to. You had to lay a lot of groundwork to get there, right? So it's like two different approaches. You know, one isn't necessarily better than the other. They're just two different ways of doing things. It's the fire. The ultimate fire can be the same amount of fire. It can still burn the. You know, the. The same pile of logs down, Right. It's just getting there in. In a different way, because I think a lot of people hear this, and they're like, oh, God, that just sounds so, like, needy or so, like, tricky to. To get there. But, yeah, the reality is that you can have just as meaningful, just as hot of sex, if not more meaningful and hotter because you've laid this groundwork, this emotional groundwork to get there.
- [27:41]
A
So the shadow side of the connector is that it can sometimes feel like that need for reassurance or for clarity can create a block to sex. Some connectors will say it. It can even lead to this feeling that like, all the stars have to be in alignment in order for sex to be able to happen. So it can feel like a pretty high bar to set before you're feeling open to sexual. So for the connector, the growth opportunity is recognizing that sex is a way of creating emotional connection too. I think it's very easy for somebody who is an emotional intimacy first type of person to think of sex in an. Not in a negative way, but to think of it as just this release. Like you're just horny, you're just looking to get off. And sometimes they can even depersonalize it. Like it's not even about me. Like, you just want to get off. I'm just the warm vessel that happens to be here. So the challenge for connectors is recognizing that sex is about emotional intimacy in long term relationships. Like sex creates that for so many people. It's not just, you know, this physical experience. It's a very personal experience. Your partner is wanting to feel connected to you, not just have an orgasm.
- [28:59]
B
Yeah. I mean, and especially if you are a connector and your partner is a fire starter, like, these are things that you can both work on. Like as, as a connector, you want all the emotional pieces in place before sex. Because you know, it's like, oh, well, I want that first. So yeah, you're like Vanessa said, your work is reminding yourself. Oh yeah, no, like it can also go the other way around. Sex can create emotional connection. How do I feel after just having sex with my partner? I feel so close. And so like that is something that you can work on desiring. I want that feeling. How do I get that feeling? Ah, it's sex. And on the flip side, Firestarter can also work on. Sex is not the only way that I can jump start emotional connection. There are other ways that I can seek out being emotionally connected to my partner and then start to realize, huh, interesting. When I find ways to seek out more emotional connection outside of sex with my partner, my partner very likely starts to want to have sex with me more. And then I start to feel even more connected. And this is virtual virtuous cycle. So it's like, yeah, like both partners can work on the, you know, the opposite of how they are wired by default. And surprise, surprise, when they do that, they end up both getting a lot more of what they both want.
- [30:25]
A
So some specific things to work on for the connector. I think one really important differentiation is learning to distinguish between actual emotional disconnection and just normal low connection moments. Like sometimes emotional disconnection is A big problem that needs to be addressed. But sometimes it's like, it's just a Tuesday night, and you both had long days, and you're tired, and there's not any red flag or there's not anything deeper going on there. It's just. Just. It's a normal day. So kind of being able to differentiate between those moments sometimes can be helpful.
- [31:00]
B
Yeah. That I'm. This is. I am not the connector, but I do relate with some of the connection stuff. You know, like Vanessa said, I do want there to be a baseline level of connection, and I've had to. I've had to really work with myself in figuring out what is that actual baseline. Like, I used to think, like, oh, yeah. Like, I just. I need to be. Like, I need to feel it to know. And that could end up being a real trap for me, because it could then be like, oh, well, I don't feel it, so now is not the right time. And then I had to work on, okay, what. What do I really need to have in place? Like, also keeping in mind how I know I will feel.
- [31:39]
A
Yeah.
- [31:40]
B
After. After doing this and how much I know that that is going to improve how I feel.
- [31:45]
A
Yeah.
- [31:46]
B
And that's helped me be like, oh, okay, yeah, wait, I. I do love her. I do love her. I've loved her 18, 19 years. Right. Like, I do love her. We. You know, we are actually more connected than I'm initially feeling in this one moment. Like, I might be a little biased to this, whatever happened 20 minutes ago, but actually, we have years and years and years of a track record of getting through stuff and figuring things out and communicating.
- [32:14]
A
And I also think that there's a nice way to blend emotional and physical intimacy and to get you guys started. So I think sometimes we tend to think of it in these, like, black or white, all or nothing ways. Like, either we need to sit down and have this long talk and talk about our deepest fears and desires to, like, get back emotionally connected, or we have to go whole hog and have sex in order to get connected. But it's like, there actually are smaller steps in between that. So could it be that you guys take your clothes off and get into bed and hold each other and talk? You know, so you're getting a little bit of that emotional intimacy. You're getting a little bit of that physical intimacy. You're not going all in on either one, but you're, like, blending those two things. So that could be something that's great for, like, a connector and a fire starter to do together.
- [33:06]
B
You could also talk about, what do you want the experience immediately after the sex ends to look like? And if you're a fire starter, you might just kind of think, oh, yeah, well, God, I feel so great and connected now. I could just jump up and, like, go off, off and go on with my day. But you might consider, oh, that's maybe not so good in connecting for my partner. And that might reinforce to them that I'm not really in it for the connection. And so you could talk about, hey, let's commit to lying in bed for 15 minutes after we have sex and cuddling face to face and talk about our day or talk about how we're feeling that way. It's sort of like, you know, I help. I help you, you help me. Like, hey, like, if, you know, you are open to having sex with me, then I'm open to spending a good amount of time, like, really close and connecting and communicating with you afterwards.
- [34:04]
A
Okay, let's move on to our third type, the sensualist. So for the sensualist, the most important things are connection and pleasure. They are driven by sex that feels embodied, feels relaxing, and is all about the sensation. Like, they are all about the actual sensory experience of sex. So we can contrast this with the fire starter. The fire starter is really more about, like, that passion and intensity, but so it's. It's more about the energy of sex, whereas the sensualist is actually more about those physical experiences.
- [34:41]
B
Like, yeah, like in the moment.
- [34:43]
A
In the moment. The specific acts that we're doing, the specific touch. So they're kind of different in that way.
- [34:49]
B
Yeah, it's like. Yeah, it's looking for a specific feeling to arise in the moment versus being overcome with the desire and that pushing the experience along.
- [35:02]
A
So sensualists really experience all of life through their senses. They're going to be sensual both inside and outside of the bedroom too. So great sex is grounded. It's very physical. It's all about being present in the moment. They're drawn to touch, texture, rhythm, eye contact. They're really living in the moment, like, not rushing it. So again, another contrast with the fire starter. The firestarter could be really happy with, like, an explosive quickie, whereas the centralist is gonna wanna have sex that's like, longer, more drawn out, more of an experience. So the su, the centralist superpower is like, the energy that they bring to sex is something that I think most people struggle, like most of us struggle to be present in the moment. We struggle to be present in our own bodies. So this is A huge gift. Like being present and being able to like invite your partner into that space with you.
- [36:02]
B
It's like, hey, like stay while water's warm. We can enjoy it.
- [36:06]
A
Okay. The shadow side with the sensualist. This is a type that's intrigued me a lot. I find that sensualists can sometimes be a little self sacrificing. They tend to prioritize their partner's experience sometimes over their own and from a really good place. Like a lot of centralists will say, I get my pleasure out of bringing my partner pleasure. So it's not about like I'm trying to deny myself or I think I don't deserve it. But they're just so focused on their partner's experience. And I think especially if your partner isn't a sensualist and you're really trying to like invite them into that kind of space with you, sometimes you can go a little overboard and be more focused on your partner's experience instead of your own.
- [36:51]
B
But I think it absolutely can be an element of, you know, also due to social conditioning, feeling uncomfortable, fully embodying, like, yeah, I wanna, I want this to look a certain way, I want this to feel a certain way because it can feel like, oh wait, but that's making it all about me. And that's not, it's not supposed to be about me. Right. Like I'm supposed to be good for my partner. And I think that can come up for men and women. For women it can be challenging to receive. And so it can feel like, oh well, I can't really like receive it in the way that I really want it or really need it. And I think for men it can be challenging because it's like, oh, like I'm supposed to perform. I'm supposed to give my partner an experience with my dick. Like, you know, like it's, it's all about me and me, me giving it to her in this certain way. And so then it can feel hard to focus on. Wait, wait, but how do I actually. How do I want it to feel?
- [37:45]
A
Yeah. And interestingly I have found that that dynamic tends to surface more in men than in women. The like being overly fixated on their partner's experience. And obviously we have a stereotype that men are more selfish and we women are more self sacrificing. But professionally I have definitely noticed many more men slipping into that than. Which is really interesting. One of the other challenges of the sensualist is that sometimes it can feel like pleasure requires these perfect conditions. Like the centralist wants the environment to be Just right. And to, like, feel exactly right. And sometimes that can actually create a barrier to intimacy. If it feels like, you know, all the things aren't actually there. Sometimes they can also get lost in the sensation. Like, you can get so, you know, in the experience that you can actually lose a little bit of the connection with your partner. So this is a really.
- [38:42]
B
Especially if your partner's, like, not. Not there with you, like, if they're not bought into, like, this is the kind of sex we're having, or this is the experience we're having, or. Or, like, oh, yes, like, let's. We have. We have time and space in our day to actually take our time and really kind of go deep on the experience.
- [39:01]
A
Yeah. Or even, like, struggling to fully verbalize what they want because they just want to get, like, lost in the experience, too. So other things to potentially work on if you're essentialist.
- [39:11]
B
And it turns out I am essentialist, which is interesting, because I have been guilty of a lot of. A lot of those things over the years of being more focused on Vanessa's experience or, you know, before Vanessa. Just being focused on my partner's experience and not really allowing myself to think about, wait, like, how do I want it? Feeling uncomfortable. Well, I felt like for so long, I don't think I could even really express what it was that I was looking for out of sex. And I might have a random experience every now and then where I was like, oh, whoa, holy. Like, that was incredible. But I just didn't really have the way to conceptualize, like, oh, that is something that I want more frequently. And then. And definitely then not being comfortable asking for that, because I didn't even have the language. I am much more inclined to. To want to, like, slow down and stretch out the experience. And I still. I. I still could get better at being clear about what it is that I want in advance and inviting you into that type of experience. I think that I can leave it to the last second often and be like, oh, like, let's. Let's take our time. And it's like, wait. Well, we haven't, like, talked about that. We haven't, like, made sure that we're both on the same page about timing and stuff like that. Because I think that in the past, you might have thought. Or you or maybe me might have thought that I was a connect because I want to have a certain level of connection before sex. But no, for me, really, it's like when I was like, yeah, no, it's about that experience. It is about Getting lost in the moment.
- [40:49]
A
Yeah. And I think one of the similarities between the connector and the sensualist is that some. That feeling that sometimes it needs to be just right to have sex. I can experience that from you sometimes. And I definitely have also had the experience from you of. Of you kind of being lost in the moment. And sometimes it's great because it pulls me into the moment too. And then it's like we're just there together. But sometimes I'll look over at you and be like, oh, he's in his own little world and I'm having a great time and I'm here too, but you're kind of somewhere else. So it's a really interesting dynamic that comes up because I think, I think sex, often great sex, is transport. Transportating. Transportational.
- [41:42]
B
Oh, God. Transportative. Transport transports you. I don't know if there is a
- [41:46]
A
word technically transports you, but sometimes it feels like we're being transported together and sometimes it feels like we're being transported separately.
- [42:01]
B
Do you wish you had more fun in your relationship?
- [42:04]
A
If you're like most couples, you do, but you also struggle with like, what exactly to do to have more fun and feel more connected.
- [42:12]
B
And that is exactly why we created the Spark.
- [42:15]
A
It's a monthly digital drop where you get one sweet date night, one spicy date night. A new sex position to try and therapists created connection questions delivered straight straight to your inbox. It is designed to keep things fresh, flirty and easy, even in the busiest seasons of life.
- [42:34]
B
Yeah. No planning, no awkward. What should we dos?
- [42:37]
A
We lay out everything for you. All you have to do is follow the instructions. And the best part is that it is nine bucks per month. That's like the cost of a latte these days.
- [42:49]
B
Yeah. So if you're ready for more laughter, more curiosity and more fun, head on over to VM Therapy Spark to join.
- [42:58]
A
That's vmtherapy.com spark because a little spark goes a long way. We should all be eating more seafood. It's super healthy for us. But I, like so many people, really struggle with finding seafood that I trust that's nutritious, that's sustainable, that doesn't have any, any gross ingredients in it. Which is why I was so glad to discover Wild Alaskan company. They are the best way to get wild caught. Perfectly portioned, nutrient dense seafood delivered directly to your door. So we got our first box of Wild Alaskan company. Gosh, it's been a couple years at this point and I was so shocked by how well it arrived to our door. All the fish was perfectly portioned already so it was super easy to use. We have now tried a ton of different varieties. They have have sockeye and coho salmon, Pacific halibut, which it's tough but I think that one is maybe my favorite. The Pacific cod and rockfish are also really good. We recently made fish tacos where we took the cod and we made nuggets where we like we breaded it. We're both gluten free so we use these gluten free panko crust to make like a nice little crispy nugget and then turn them into tacos. They were so good. But I also imagine if you had kids, this would be a perfect recipe. It's like even picky kids are. You're like, they're just chicken nuggets. They're just nuggets that it was really, really tasty. And Wild Alaskan is 100% wild caught. Never farmed, no antibiotics, no GMOs, no additives. They are nutrient rich and full of flavor and sustainably sourced wild caught from Alaska. Every order supports sustainable harvesting practices. If you're at all curious about this, but a little bit like, I don't know, seafood in the mail, they make it very easy. It is risk free. 100 money back guarantee. If you're not completely satisfied, they will fully refund you. But trust me, we've had many orders from them so far and they have never ever let us down. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can Trust. Go to wildalaskan.compillow for 35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.compickow for 35 off your first order. Thank thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. I had a horrifying experience last week. My mom told me that she drinks maybe one cup of water per day. I lost my mind. Xander has gotten me well on the hydration train and has also helped me realize that we need electrolytes, not just water to stay hydrated. So we've been using a cure in our household. They make these clean and simple plant based electrolytes with no added sugar. They have incredible flavors like watermelon berry pomegranate lemonade. Never too sweet, not artificial tasting. In these simple, convenient packets you can throw into your purse and your gym bag. Have a couple in your car. They also make an energy drink mix that we always say like Xander takes it with him. It's like liquid life saving when he's going surfing.
- [46:21]
B
All my. All my Surf trips. I mean, I bring both types with me.
- [46:24]
A
The energy drink mix has plant based 100mg of natural caffeine plus electrolytes for focus and hydration with no jitters and no crash. And that comes in flavors like peach tea and acai berry. Staying hydrated isn't just about water. You also need electrolytes. That's why we love Cure. It's clean and it tastes great. You can grab Cure on Amazon or find a store near you at cure hydration.com/pillow. Real ingredients, real hydration. Okay, let's talk about number four. This is the adventurer. The adventurer is all about desire and exploration. That's the third and fifth of our five keys, the core drive for the adventure. What they are looking to experience from sex is curiosity, novelty and, and discovery.
- [47:20]
B
So there's a lot of similarities to the fire starter in terms of the desire piece. But then rather than sort of looking for like the burst of pleasure, the orgasm, the stress relief, it's like wanting, having this desire, but then wanting to embody that with exploring new things, trying new things, having new experiences in the bedroom.
- [47:41]
A
Yeah, I mean, exploration really is the key for the adventurer. You know the advice that we always hear to like, keep it spicy, spice things up in the bedroom. The adventurer's like, hell, yes, that is exactly what I want. So they thrive on curiosity. They see intimacy as like this playground, this buffet of things to keep exploring. They're all about new sensations, new experiences, that sense that there's always more to explore. And some adventurers do. Like in particular the feeling of something being forbidden or taboo. The superpower that the adventurer brings into sex is playfulness, imagination, openness in the bedroom. Like you're always going to have sex. That's creative, exciting, new. Something different is happening. An adventurer is not going to fall into a rut with sex. Like, it's this sense that our sex life is always evolving. I have like a little twinge of that in me. Like, I like that feeling that there's always something new to explore. With sexual sex, for me, it's not necessarily so much like trying new things, but like having new emotional experience. I am not an adventurer. It's not my, I'm the last type. But I, I get that. I have that same similar thread of like, oh, there's always something different that we could experience.
- [49:02]
B
I think if, if we ha. If we didn't have this final type that we'll talk about next, we, I would have, I would think that you're an adventurer or at Least, like, at the beginning of our relationship, I would have thought that. I think, you know, like, for me, where I had to kind of discover some stuff about me. I think you've similarly had to discover some stuff about you where, you know, in the past, you might have been looking for a certain thing through novelty or through exploration. But I think that, you know, you. I imagine you've learned since then. Oh, wait, that's not actually what gets me most efficiently to what I want. It's something else.
- [49:35]
A
So the shadow side for the adventurer is sometimes they are chasing after novelty when what they really need is. Is depth and stability. So the growth opportunity is learning that exploration isn't always about what's new. It's also about what's, like, rediscovering what's already there with fresh eyes. So some specific things to work on are really, like, slowing down enough to go deeper into an experience. So it's not just. It's not just, like, bopping about the surface. Let's try this new position. Let's try this new toy. Let's try this new fantasy. It's, like, really sinking into those experiences and having more, like, intensity, more connection, more depth to those experiences, and, like, being able to stay present with one thing long enough to actually feel it. And I think even practically, like, you know, you can try a new position once and be like, okay, checked that off the list. We did the new position. Now let's move on to the other one. But there's so much deeper that you could go on that one thing. Like, oh, what if we tried bringing more animalistic energy to this position? What if we try bringing more romantic energy to this position? What if you got up on your elbows instead of on your hands? What if we made out while we, you know, it's like there's all these other pieces of it that you can explore rather than the, like, I checked this one off the list.
- [51:02]
B
So what I'm hearing is that basically this type, kind of like unchecked or unbridled, so to speak, can almost exhibit, like, sexual adhd, where it's like, we're like, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Let's do that. Oh, okay. That was cool. Oh, whoa. Like, that sounds like a great idea. Let's try that. And it's like, without real, you know, without anyone. If you were with another. If you were with another adventurer, great. Maybe you would both be just super stoked with your sex life kind of looking like. Like it's just bouncing around, like, oh, this. That. Let's Try that. Okay. That would be cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, let's do it. But it's realizing, oh, that is not how most people think. And I can still have those experiences, but it's whiplashy for other people when it's like, like, oh, let's try that. Cool. We don't even need to talk about it now. Let's try this other thing. You know, like, it's like, wait, wait, hold on a second. Like, we just try this new thing. Like, now I want to see if we can get better at this. Or, like, I want to see what. What's. You know, what this could be like if we. If we keep trying it and realizing you can still get all of that if you slow down and spend more time on each thing.
- [52:08]
A
Okay. That is a very simplistic pop psychology view of adhd. I just have to say that it's not the.
- [52:14]
B
Sorry, Yep. I'm not the professional here.
- [52:16]
A
That's not the actual add. What ADHD is. Is like. But, yeah, there is that overall, what you're saying. I get what you're saying. So, yeah, I think it's also like, one other potential area for growth is sometimes adventures are all about trying to explore things, and the exploration is actually more of an avoidance, an avoiding of a deeper emotional depth. So sometimes it's like asking yourself, is there something I might be avoiding here? Am I maybe sidestepping some vulnerability? Okay. And let's bring it on home with our fifth and final sex personality type.
- [52:55]
B
Or Vanessa, the anchor.
- [52:58]
A
This is me. For the anchor, the most important things are communication and pleasure. And I so know I'm an anchor because I see that and I'm like, yeah, obviously those are the most important things with sex.
- [53:12]
B
No, they're not.
- [53:14]
A
So what the anchor is looking to experience from sex is steadiness and consistency. For the anchor, sex feels like a grounding force. Anchors are like, life is busy and chaotic. Sex is a way to reconnect and reset and, like, come back home to ourselves and each other. Anchors love communication. Definitely one of their strengths. They like being able to talk about their sex life openly. Frequently, it's just a normal topic of conversation. And it's not just. Just like, trying to solve problems. That communication is a form of connection of, like, keeping the thread between you and your partner alive.
- [53:55]
B
I feel like for you, that's the way that you see that I care about our. I mean, it's both us having sex frequently shows that I care, but also that I want to communicate about it with you.
- [54:06]
A
The Consistency piece really is so important to an anchor. It's this sense of like, like, yeah, sex is what keeps us grounded. It's what anchors us in life. And so we need to have this consistency around it. So the superpower of an anchor is reliability, calm, steadiness. It's like this solid base that every relationship needs. The shadow for the anchor is that dry spells can leave you feeling disconnected or even short tempered. Because intimacy is like this way that we, we, we find equilibrium and peace in our relationship.
- [54:45]
B
It can leave you sex hangry.
- [54:47]
A
So I will fully admit I get cranky if it's been for us what feels like a little bit of time. And this is. I'll be really honest and vulnerable here. Like, this is something that I struggle with a lot because we talk in our content about like, it's not okay to make your partner feel guilty about not having sex, to make them feel bad. Like, it's not okay for you to pressure or coerce them. And I definitely don't, you know, I don't think I ever go to the point where I'm like pressuring you or like make, you know, pushing you to have sex in situations that you don't feel good or you, you know, feel unsafe in. But I will acknowledge that I do feel a little bit grumpy and snippy and on edge. And I think that that's unfair. And it, like, it's coming from a good place within me. It's coming from a place of I want to connect with you. I want us to, you know, get back in this rhythm with each other. I want us to feel stable and secure. But what my behaviors are actually like, what the behaviors actually are in the moment is being snippy and grumpy. And we came up with a, we were trying to come up with a name for it. Like, it's like Sex Hangry Sangry. But I feel like we came up with a different, different name that sounded better than Sangri.
- [56:10]
B
We'll have to do some brainstorming on that.
- [56:13]
A
Tell us in the comments if you.
- [56:14]
B
Do you experience Sex Hanger.
- [56:16]
A
Sexing. Hangry. Sangry.
- [56:18]
B
I don't.
- [56:19]
A
I feel like we had a different word. Anyways, the bottom line that I want to say is like, it's, it's not great. It's not a great thing to do because of course it's, it's going to make you feel guilty and like, oh my God. Okay. And it's, yeah, it's not okay for my mood to be dependent on whether or not we Are having sex consistently?
- [56:41]
B
Yeah, I feel like. I feel like that was. That was much more of an issue that we dealt with, you know, at various points in time. Earlier on in our relationship when we did not have language at all to be able to recognize what was going on. And, you know, like, I was talking about a couple minutes ago about, you know, as a sensualist, I didn't really understand what it was that I was looking for out of sex. You know, like, I wanted to have this certain type of connection and to have a certain type of experience. And in. When we were in a bit of a dry spell or I wasn't feeling very connected with you, or I was overworking and you're not in tune with my body, when I would experience that snippiness from you that, you know, that, hey, it's been X days, and we had. It's been nine days since we had sex. It's been 10 days. It's been a lot. You know, that kind of thing. It would feel like, well, like, shoot, like I can't. I definitely. I don't even know how to describe what it is I'm looking for, but I certainly can't get there with this going on. And so that would just feel like we were at, you know, loggerheads or whatever. How are we going to get through that? Fortunately, we did, and now we have the. We have so much more understanding in the language that really doesn't come up for us anymore because we're able to discuss it and we're able to identify what's going on. But, yeah, no, now really got to experience the. The superpower part of it, which is you want to have sex with me, you want to have good experiences with me, and that's something that I want too. And, you know, as long as I am continuing to advocate for, you know, the experience that I want to have during sex, then we are really well set up to have a lot of sex for you and have a lot of the experience that I want to have. And, like, everybody wins.
- [58:32]
A
Yeah, I mean, anchors are really great at making sure you have that consistency. And I. I mean, obviously I do because I'm an anchor, but also, if I can step outside of that role, like, I think consistency is really important in a sex life in the same way that consistency is important with emotional intimacy. Like, we can't go on a date night once a year and think our relationship's fine. Like, we can't have sex once a year and think our relationship is fine. Like, consistency is really important. So that is definitely a superpower that the anchor brings into the know.
- [59:03]
B
It's interesting with the title, the Anchor. You know, like, we talked about the superpower and the shadow. Just like an anchor. An anchor can hold your ship in place. An anchor can also drag you down to the bottom. Like, it's like, maybe that's a little extreme, but it's. It. It can serve two purposes. Yeah, right. So, you know, it's like, which do you want it to be?
- [59:26]
A
So some other things for anchors to work on. Sometimes, sometimes consistency can tip a little bit into predictability where you're more focused on, like, oh, I just want to, like, make sure that we've had sex. But you're not necessarily as focused on the experience itself.
- [59:41]
B
Yeah, you might be, like, pushing for quickies all, oh, yeah, we don't, you know, like, I mean, that can be our thing where it's like, hey, like, let's take our time. You're like, no, we don't talk, but. But quickie, let's go.
- [59:50]
A
Yeah, I can definitely. I over prioritize the quickie for sure, but I think because I have that little streak of the adventure in me, it saves me from going too far in that direction. But yes, making sure that it's not just about ticking the box of we've had sex. It's about making sure, like, it's a great, enjoyable experience and you're, you know, mixing it up and trying new things as well. I think you also need to recognize that a dry spell is not a relationship failure. Sometimes life just happens. Like dry spells happen and it's okay. Like, life is complicated and messy and you're not always going to be able to, you know, have your perfect little cadence that you want. It's being able to build up a little bit more tolerance for the natural ebb and flow that you're going to have in your sex life without reading it as neglect or disconnection. All right, well, those are our five types. We hope this model has been useful to you. Hopefully it's gotten you thinking about. About yourself, asking yourself some questions. What is it that I'm looking to experience from sex? What is it that makes sex really great for me? And we hope it opens up lots of conversations with your partner as well. It's always our intention here is just to get those conversations going. So we'd love to hear from you. If you're listening on Spotify, let us know in the comments what your type is if there's something you think we missed or like any little nuance like, let us know. We'd love to see. It'll be interesting to too. To see, like, are there more of one type than the other?
- [61:22]
B
Yeah. Or let us know what your type is and what you think your partner's type is. You know, maybe if we see a lot of certain. Com, you know, let us know, like, oh, do we. Do we, like, bump heads a lot or do we seem to get along well? Like, you know, that might. If we see a bunch of combos where it's like, oh, there's some challenging combos here. We could do some episodes, you know, going deep on those combos.
- [61:42]
A
Oh, yeah, we absolutely could. Let us know if that's something that you would like to see. But, I mean, we already totally revamped this model from the original version, and we're always trying to improve our stuff. So being able to get that feedback from you about, like, no, I don't think this was quite right. Or you missed this type entirely. That's always super useful for us. So you can leave it on Spotify. I don't think you can leave comments on Apple, but you could also come over to Instagram. We're Ennessa and Xander, and send us a DM and let us know what you think. And again, just another quick reminder that we have a quiz about the type of types it goes into. It's just. Just a couple super quick questions. Takes, like, a minute to do. But we do have some little tidbits and tips that you get after you take the quiz that we didn't get a chance to share in this episode. So you can go straight to vmtherapy.com you'll see it right at the top. There's a blue button that says, take the quiz. All right, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes, episodes every Thursday.