E265: Is This Cheating? (Part 3) Emotional Affairs, Secret Texts, and Sneaky DMs

Summary

Pillow Talks E265: Is This Cheating? (Part 3) Emotional Affairs, Secret Texts, and Sneaky DMs
Hosts: Vanessa & Xander Marin
Release Date: June 18, 2026

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Episode Overview

Vanessa and Xander Marin tackle the ever-murky territory of cheating in relationships, focusing on gray-area scenarios submitted by listeners. As a sex therapist and “regular dude,” Vanessa and Xander blend honest, funny commentary with practical advice, challenging assumptions about what counts as betrayal. This episode continues their popular "Is This Cheating?" series, exploring emotional affairs, secret messages, and more, all with the aim to help couples define their own boundaries and avoid painful misunderstandings.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Why "Is This Cheating?" Strikes a Chord

• The episode kicks off recognizing how “Is This Cheating?” is a fan favorite and why these conversations are critical. Vanessa highlights that couples often don’t explicitly define what counts as cheating.
  • Quote (02:34, Vanessa): "I think most people assume that we have the shared definition. [...] most couples do not talk enough at the beginning of their relationship about what the bounds are and throughout their relationship about how they're feeling about certain things.”
• Xander’s "hot take": Cheating is often more black and white than people admit, but self-justification gets in the way.
  • Quote (02:42, Xander): "I think that cheating is a lot more black and white than most people think it is. But I think that it's very easy for us to justify our own bad behaviors."

2. The Necessity of Ongoing Conversations

• Technology and changing norms (AI, dating apps) mean definitions evolve—what was clear 15 years ago may not apply now (06:21).
• Recommendation: Listen as a couple and pause to define your own boundaries.

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Deep Dives Into Listener Scenarios

Scenario 1: The “Night Drives” & Hot Tub Airbnb

[09:15 – 15:31]

• Story: Boyfriend with a history of crush on a female friend engages in multiple night drives with her, plans a group trip without his girlfriend (the submitter), then tries to book a private Airbnb with a hot tub for just the two of them. Cancels, saying he "took it too far."
• Key Reactions:
  • Xander: Questions the swimsuit pretense but feels the overall situation is a huge red flag.
  • Vanessa: Draws the line at “setting yourself up to cheat,” even if nothing physical happened, emphasizing betrayal of trust.
  • Both agree the situation goes beyond “emotional affair”—it’s actively creating opportunities for cheating.
  • Quote (13:35, Vanessa): "There's straight up cheating, the black and white... But there's also this second bucket... where people set themselves up to cheat... There's still a betrayal involved in letting something get to that point."

Scenario 2: Explicit Videos from a Female Friend

[17:12 – 21:11]

• Story: Man is caught with explicit videos and photos of a female friend masturbating, claims they’re for another friend.
• Key Reactions:
  • Both hosts mock the excuse, comparing to adolescent rationalizations (“try harder, my dude”).
  • Emphasize that any “hot take” about this not being cheating would require explicit mutual agreement, which clearly isn’t present here.
  • Quote (20:04, Vanessa): "I could see some couples saying, like, yeah, I think that's hot. Go ahead... But clearly in this situation... that is not the case."
  • Xander assigns 99.8% certainty this crosses a line.

Scenario 3: Sex Shop/Porn Theater Visit

[21:12 – 27:33]

• Story: Receipts reveal partner visited a notorious local sex shop/movie theater with open sex acts and prostitution. He insists he just watched, didn’t participate.
• Key Reactions:
  • Vanessa breaks down possible benign scenarios (just shopping), but both wonder why he picked that shop.
  • Discusses how some couples are fine with solo porn use, but live environments (other people having sex) introduce new ambiguities.
  • The “live” aspect is potentially a much bigger deal—suggests couples revisit agreements in light of technology and new situations.
  • Quote (26:21, Vanessa): "It's not enough to assume that a conversation that you had in a different technological era covers this one... have the conversations, please."

Scenario 4: Wingman Gone Wild – Naked Pics While Pregnant

[27:39 – 30:27]

• Story: While five months pregnant, the listener’s husband took naked pics of a random woman at her house, excusing it as “helping a friend” as a wingman.
• Key Reactions:
  • Vanessa is appalled at “wingman” justifications, calls it both cheating and gaslighting.
  • Xander tries (unsuccessfully) to find an angle where “wingman” makes sense—ultimately condemns the behavior.
  • Both agree the man needs to take real accountability and this behavior is relationship-ending if not addressed.
  • Quote (28:43, Xander): "Cheating and gaslighting.”
  • Quote (29:59, Vanessa): "On what planet do you think you get brownie points for this?"

Scenario 5: Gym Friend Confessions

[31:49 – 37:26]

• Story: Boyfriend makes a close friendship at the gym (with both the partner and another woman). He talks about past sexual experiences and at one point jokes, "I’d fuck you," causing the woman to retreat in discomfort. A year later, she wants to clear the air.
• Key Reactions:
  • Vanessa and Xander probe layers: Is it emotional cheating, just a bad joke, or something in-between? Unanimous that saying "I'd fuck you" crosses a line, even if joking.
  • Discussion on sex talk: Sharing sexual histories for advice or processing isn’t inherently a betrayal—but intention is crucial.
  • Quote (34:44, Vanessa): “We talk about sex with a lot of people, so I personally don't think that talking about sex with somebody is cheating. Of course, it's all about the intent.”
• Advice: If it upset the woman involved and created ongoing discomfort, it's okay to draw a boundary with further friendship.

Scenario 6: Secret Sexy Texts

[38:20 – 40:09]

• Story: Partner is caught exchanging 400+ deleted sexy messages with a former flame, including graphic and flirty content.
• Both: "This is a no."—clearly crosses the emotional/sexual line unless a couple’s explicit agreement allows for this kind of exchange.
  • Quote (39:36, Xander): "This is a hard doggy. It's a no for me."
  • Vanessa: This isn't the “therapy” kind of sex talk—it’s outright sexting.

Scenario 7: Masturbation and Boundaries

[40:30 – 42:51]

• Topic: When does solo pleasure cross a line in partnership?
• Vanessa: Couples should discuss the role of masturbation. It’s healthy to have a relationship with your own body, but it can cross lines if it becomes the default instead of partnered sex or is hidden.
• Xander: If masturbation regularly replaces/limits intimacy with your partner, it’s a red flag.

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Rapid-Fire Hot Takes: Is It Cheating?

[43:25 – 52:13] Vanessa and Xander give quick-fire answers on a variety of scenarios:

• Late-night texts to a coworker about not sleeping: Not cheating, but “knock it off.”
• Masturbating while thinking of someone else: Not cheating, but potentially problematic—use the golden rule.
• Sex with a mutual friend right after breakup: Not cheating, but obviously hurtful.
• On dating apps “to make friends”: Cheating unless previously agreed.
• Flirty DMs with old hookups (no meet-up): Not advisable, emotional line likely crossed—“highly questionable.”
• Sending/receiving nudes: Cheating. “Just don’t do this, guys.”
• Meeting up for lunch with an ex, not telling spouse: Not cheating, but not okay to hide.
• Replying to IG stories with fire or drooling emojis: Not technically cheating, but “just don’t do it.”
• Drunken peck with a girl in Vegas (when straight): Not cheating—depends on couple’s attitude, but hosts agree it’s not a problem.
• Texting ex and reminiscing about sex: Definitely cheating.
• Paying to sext with strangers: Cheating, no ambiguity.
• Using sex toys alone when agreed only to use together: Not cheating, but breaking a relationship agreement—Vanessa notes the “rule” is odd.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Defining Cheating is Personal (04:49, Vanessa): "There is no universal, this is cheating. And this is not... every couple has to decide for themselves."
• On Repeated Near-Cheating (14:23, Vanessa): "There's... a bigger bucket... where people set themselves up to cheat... There's still a betrayal involved in letting something get to that point."
• On Partner Masturbation (42:51, Vanessa): "Somebody is entitled to have a relationship with their own body. Just because you're in a relationship doesn’t mean you never get to have your own experience with your own body ever again."
• On “Wingman” Excuses (28:43, Xander): "Cheating and gaslighting."
• On Flirting (48:19, Vanessa): "Flirting is, is okay as long as you are aware of what your intentions are..."

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Actionable Suggestions from Hosts

• Listen as a couple and use the episode’s hypotheticals for honest discussion.
• Move from the specific to the general: Define your boundaries broadly, not just for one scenario.
• Recognize “technological drift”—keep revisiting the conversation as new situations arise.

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Final Thoughts

Vanessa and Xander provide a robust, relatable, and sometimes hilarious framework for decoding the gray zones of infidelity. Their key advice: Don’t assume—define, clarify, and consent to relationship rules together, especially as times, technology, and personal needs change. There’s no universal line, but hiding, secretiveness, and repeated “almost cheating” behaviors seldom bode well for trust.

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Closing reminder from Vanessa:
"Please stop cheating and please stop doing bad things that you know are gonna set yourself, decrease the incidence of cheating within our community. That would be great. So just stop." (53:07)

Transcript

[A]

Yeah, if y' all keep cheating, we'll keep doing these episodes.

[B]

I mean, please stop cheating and please stop doing bad things. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20

[A]

years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques from for improving yours.

[B]

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Welcome back to another round of Is this Cheating?

[A]

I think this is a crowd favorite, a fan favorite, and this is the third one. It's one of our favorites.

[B]

Yeah, it's exciting. The third one we've done. Because we get so many submissions for this, we always turn to our trusty Instagram audience. We're at Vanessa and Xander, if you're not already following us. And we asked people, you know, we're doing this episode called Is this Cheating? So tell us a scenario in your relationship that's leaving you wondering, like, does this count as cheating or not? Like, it feels like a gray zone to me. I want somebody else to weigh in on this and let me know.

[A]

Or like, I feel one way, my partner feels a different way. How do we. How do we reconcile these seemingly irreconcilable perspectives?

[B]

And I think this is such a fascinating topic to get into. Like, cheating is obviously a very big, very challenging, very painful topic, but seeing some of these specific scenarios and the things people are dealing with, it's very fascinating. I mean, this is definitely a voyeuristic episode to listen to. If you just want this, like, inside sneak peek at what's really going on in other people's relationships.

[A]

Why do you think we keep getting so many of these?

[B]

Because a lot of people cheat. But, I mean, cheating's really rampant.

[A]

But. But beyond. But, like, beyond that, why do you. Why do you think we have so many? Because as we read through these, you'll see a lot of them are like, you know, the. The person writing in is like, this is how I'm perceiving it. This is what my partner is saying. Or this is what they're claim. This is why they claim this isn't a problem. Why do you think we have so many of these misalignments or misunderstandings?

[B]

Because we love justifying our own bad behavior. I mean, yeah, like, I think. Okay, here's my hot take.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I think that cheating is a lot more black and white than most people think it is. But I think that it's very easy for us to justify our own bad behaviors. I mean, nobody wants to think of themselves as a cheater, but I think a lot of people have been in scenarios where something happened, they were tempted in a way that they didn't think they were going to be. They kind of, you know, just went along with something that they didn't think they would have. And, I mean, it's an actual psychological phenomenon that when somebody else does something bad to us, it's very easy for us to look at it in this black and white way and say, like, that was bad, that was wrong. You shouldn't have done that. But when we do something bad ourselves, we tend to justify it. Well, I didn't mean to do that. Or I wasn't the one who started that. Or that was really the other person's thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We never talked about it.

[A]

Yeah. Or you bring in external situations. Oh, well, this was a challenging situation because X, Y and Z was happening versus, oh, I was just a bad person, or I didn't care about the other person, and I just did it. I think on top of that, though, too, I think one of the huge trends when we have these episodes is we do talk a lot about, hey, you gotta have conversations not just at the beginning of your relationship, but throughout your relationship about how are we feeling about certain things? I think that we often assume that the definition of cheating is very black and white and almost like, innately understood by everyone. But I think that just like how most couples don't ever talk about, are we opting into monogamy? Are we assuming that we're in a monogamous relationship? Are we in a monogamous relationship? Are we thinking that X, Y and Z is cheating or ABC is cheating? I think most people assume that we have the shared definition. You know, the big learning for me from these is like, most couples do not talk enough at the beginning of their relationship about what the bounds are and throughout their relationship about how they're feeling about certain things. And so then we start making assumptions. Oh, well, because I would never do this. My partner would never do this.

[B]

Yeah. The bottom line is that everybody has to define cheating in their own relationship. There is no universal, this is cheating. And this is not. Like, you're going to hear a lot of scenarios in this episode, and some people are going think, absolutely not. That's not cheating. I actually think that's hot. I'd love to see my partner do that. And some people are gonna think, are you freaking kidding me? Of course that's cheating. Like, there is no universal right or wrong here. Every couple has to decide for themselves. But I think one of the big problems that comes up is that a lot of these scenarios don't get discussed ahead of time because they're so specific and detailed. So, for example, most couples. I think most monogamous couples have had a conversation saying, hey, we're gonna be monogamous. We're not gonna sleep with anybody else. Okay, yeah, great. We're on the same page. But, like, we have a scenario that's like, somebody's talking about sex with a random person at the gym. Like, what couple is sitting down going through every single scenario? Okay, well, let's say that you find a random person at the gym, and you guys all of a sudden start, like, randomly talking about sex. Does that count as cheating? Yes or no? So it can be hard to pin down exactly what your definition is because there are just so many freaking possibilities. So because of that, I think that this is a great episode to listen to as a couple. Like, listen to us read the scenario, pause the episode right there. The two of you talk about, would you define this as cheating? Yes or no? It's a great way to help you get more clarity on your own boundaries.

[A]

Yeah. And then I think even take it up a notch, because these are going to be very specific scenarios. So obviously, talk about with this specific scenario, what would we categorize that our relationship as? But then I would say, to make this really relevant, then try to go a step further and say, okay, so this very specific situation, we both agree that would not be okay, so can we, like, how can we define that more generally? Like, okay, so in the example that you gave of, like, talking to a random person at the gym about your sex life, you know, then it's like, okay, so maybe should we, you know, what is our perspective on, you know, who do we. Who are we both okay with? You know, us talking in detail about our sex life with? Okay, so maybe that would be, like, we can talk about it together. We can talk about it with a therapist. We can talk about it in couples therapy. You know, like, you can talk about it with, like, you know. You know, a couple of your best friends who are, like, super close and you really trust beyond that that feels inappropriate or something. You know, we've done episodes about A.I. it's like, we never conceptualized A.I. when we got into a relationship. So you and I, if we were just like, oh, yeah, well, obviously we know what cheating is because we got together 18, 19 years ago, and we just know. Well, yeah, there was no such thing as AI. There was no such thing as, like, dating apps. There was no such thing as all kinds of things. So it's like we gotta have to. We have to keep having those types of conversations to get to that point. You know, kind of like your hot take was. It should be really black and white. It should be black and white. If you have had the type of conversation such that you really do understand what's going. You know, what the rules are in your relationship. I think most of us live in a gray area because we're kind of scared to talk about it, because we're scared what it would mean if we disagreed on them.

[B]

Okay, before we get into all the scenarios for today, we wanted to ask you a super quick favor. Would you please subscribe to the show? All you have to do is just hit that little plus button wherever you are at listening. It really, really helps. I know it sounds silly and simple, but it genuinely does make a big difference. And if you want to get a gold star, we would love for you to leave a rating or review reviews you can only leave on Apple. You just find, like, our main page. Scroll down to the bottom. You'll see a little section where you can leave a review there. But it genuinely does help the podcast get in front of new audiences. We have such a great, like, core community of Pillow Talks listeners, and we appreciate you guys so much, and we really are on a mission many couples as we possibly can. So when you leave a rating and review, Apple and Spotify are more likely to display the podcast as a recommended podcast, which means new people can find it, because otherwise it's very rare for new people to just stumble upon the podcast. Okay, Xander, why don't you read our first story?

[A]

All right, let's go. We had been dating for two years. Then his friend, who's a girl who he had a longtime crush on before we got together, reaches out to rant about her friends, but they ended up going on multiple night drives. He ended up planning a trip for her to join him and his friends without me, but didn't happen. Then he booked an Airbnb for Just Them two with a hot tub and messages confirming it would be just them and to make sure to bring a swimsuit for the hot tub. He then canceled because he took it too far. He took it too far as in quote, that's what he said.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

I got one question. What if it's just the two of them? Maybe this is a little contrarian. I'm not trying to excuse him at all. This is kind of just like innate take. But why. Why bring a. Why do you need a swimsuit if you guys are, like, hooking up at the Airbnb and it's just the two of you?

[B]

I mean, this is very clearly crossing over the edge. Like, yeah, the fact that this is somebody that he's admitted to having a long time crush on, and then you're planning a private trip for the two of you, just the two of them, to be at an Airbnb, like, this makes no sense.

[A]

No. Yes. Swimsuit or not. At least this submission doesn't say. Oh, well, he claimed he told her to bring a swimsuit, so obviously nothing was gonna happen.

[B]

I mean, something's definitely gonna happen, swimsuit or not.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I mean.

[B]

And he even knows. He said he canceled because he took it too far.

[A]

So good for him for realizing. Good for him for real realizing. I would be concerned. Yeah. I would be concerned about that. Judgment given. Yes, it did go too far. And that's great that you identified that. I would be. Yeah. I would want to really try to understand how did it even get this far in the first place?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, like, it also says that he planned a trip for this girl to join him and his friends, but not his girlfriend. Like, that's weird too.

[A]

Yeah. How is that going to play with your friends?

[B]

Yeah. Okay. What about the night drives, though? So let's just say remove the rest of this. If this was just. He made a new friend and they're going on night drives together as opposed to day drives. I don't know. Night drives are a little more.

[A]

It feels like a very kind of thing. Yeah, I would. I would say that in and of itself isn't cheating, per se, but it would be a big like. Like, hey, what's going. What. What is going on? Like, what are you hope. Like, why are you. Like, yeah, why are you. Why are you doing this? Why does that. Why does this feel appropriate to you? I don't think this feels okay. Do we need to have more clear conversation about what is and isn't okay in our relationship? Like, it's. It seems like that is a real opportunity to, one, understand what the hell is he thinking? And two, to figure out, like, what. What needs to be more clear for us.

[B]

I don't know. Honestly, like, I think this guy just wants to do what he wants to do. I don't think a conversation is gonna help. I think this relationship is toast.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I. I think the real problem here is, yes, he says he took it too far at the end, but also the thing that. The thing that I would. If this were me and I'd found out that you were doing this, I feel like the thing that would be really challenging for me would be. There were, you know. Okay, so you went on these night drives, and. Okay, so maybe that was this trip that she was supposed to go on with the friends but didn't. But, like, there's so many opportunities for this to be far more than what he's saying where it's like, I don't know what happened on the night. The night. I feel so funny saying it. The night trip.

[B]

I know.

[A]

The night trip where it's like, okay, yeah. So based on what it's like, either you're lying and way more. And, you know, you've just been, like, physically cheating for a long time and you want to back out of it, and so you've, you know, said, oh, this thing happened and went too far and it's all over, or you just have really horrendous. Horrendous. I was gonna say horrible, horrible, horrible, horrendous judgment that shows, like, a real misalignment in between what we value or how we care about each other.

[B]

Okay. I think there are. There are two different things here. Like, there's just straight up cheating, the black and white. You know, we actually hooked up with each other. But there's also this second bucket that I think is a bigger bucket. It happens more frequently where people set themselves up to cheat, or we could say they set themselves up for monogamy failure. And I think people really justify to themselves, like, oh, but nothing ended up happening. We didn't do anything. I canceled it because I knew I took it too far. But they don't recognize that it is still cheating in a way, like you're setting yourself up for something to happen, and it doesn't matter if something did or actually didn't happen. There's still a betrayal involved in letting something get to that point.

[A]

Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that. I'm not saying that one is okay and the other is not, but the repeated nature of this takes it up a notch. I do think it's one thing where it's. If it were, like, literally just the last thing where it's like. Or not even the last thing literally one thing happens and you're like, oh God, I. I really took that too far. That was awful. I'm so sorry. I'm like coming clean and telling you about what happened. This is the only time this happened versus it being like, oh yeah, well, oh yeah, no, we were going on drives and that was fine. And oh yeah, she was gonna come on this trip with my friends and yeah, it didn't work out. That, that's fine. But then like, only this other big problematic thing happened where I would be like, well, yeah, that thing that, you know, you booking a trip, solo trip together is a huge problem. Yes. But like, you repeatedly were in situations where even if you truly didn't physically cheat in any of them, you were absolutely putting yourself repeatedly in the situation to do it.

[B]

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[A]

They're also Chauncey and Maggie's favorite product by far. We often have to fight them for

[B]

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[A]

So they're live photos is what you're

[B]

saying no in the videos.

[A]

Oh, I thought I said photos.

[B]

No, no, photos of her Volvo. And you can hear moaning in the videos. He said they weren't for himself, but for his friend who he was out drinking with one night.

[A]

Like, really, bro? This is the excuse you come up with? Like, try harder, try harder, my dude.

[B]

They're not for me. They're for my friend. Do you collect nude videos for your friend? Are you just like that good of a friend that you're out at bars trying to get women to send you nude videos just for your friends? You can pass them along. Well, I do think the scenario be that he's actually doing this for his friend.

[A]

I do think that this was basically the. I never, I didn't actually use this as an excuse, but this was kind of what I told myself the situation was when I was, I don't know, like, probably in like eighth grade. And I think my dad caught. Saw like browser history of me looking at some porn sites. Because in my mind I was like, thought that my friend would think it was because we. He was, he was. My friend was talking about, like, wanting to be able to see pictures of what vulvas looked like. And then I was like, oh, wouldn't it be cool if I could find some? And I did at home because we were very early Internet adopters at the time and thank God I didn't. In my mind, I was like, oh, I could print these out and bring them to school to show my friend. That would be really cool. Thank God I didn't do that. But yeah, I think when my dad caught me in my mind, I was like, oh, well, I was only doing it to show my friends. And then I kind of had to have a good, hard, long think about it. It's like, yeah, but I, I still chose to do it. Anyway.

[B]

Cool story.

[A]

Yeah. This. This doesn't seem like. This doesn't seem like a good situation. And even why would. Why aren't they on your friends? Like, why do they need to be on your phone if they're for your friends? It doesn't even make sense.

[B]

Oh, also, it's a female friend. Like, it's not even just some random person.

[A]

Like, yeah, it's not even a random person. Yeah, there, there's a degree of connection because, I mean, if it's a random female, you know, these videos are everywhere on the, on the Internet. Like, they're not. There's nothing unique about that. But yeah, the fact that it's a, a friend of theirs, it's Weird. This is. Yeah. I mean, the only way I could say this is not cheating is if you guys have agreed that there's some amount of. Of openness.

[B]

Like, but this is exactly what I mean about there not being any universal definition. Like, I could see some couples saying, like, yeah, I think that's hot. Go ahead. You know, I want to see those videos too. Let's watch them together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So again, we're obviously, we're only giving our opinions about what our definitions are of cheating in this episode. But.

[A]

But clearly in this situation. Clearly in this situation, I think I can say with 99.8 certainty.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That that is. That that is not the case in their relationship. That, you know, that it's not like a relationship where they would be like, oh, yeah, it's super hot. Oh, yeah, like you wouldn't believe. I went out and got these crazy videos. Let's watch them together. Because he's making the excuse. Oh, it's just for my friend. Right. Like, if that was the situation that you guys were in, then you wouldn't be.

[B]

Be.

[A]

You wouldn't be getting caught with it. You would literally be bringing it to your partner. Oh, my God, look at this. It's craziest thing happened when we were out last night in these videos that we took or got sent to me or whatever. But yeah, cheating. Okay, 99.8%.

[B]

Why don't you read the next one?

[A]

He went to a sex shop slash porn movie theater and never told me. I finally found receipts at his house while tidying up. The place looks like a sex shop for supplies, but they have two movie theaters showing porn, private VIP arcade rooms, and more people are just having sex openly in the theaters. And there's prostitutes who walk around offering services in the theater. I was heartbroken. He says he didn't have sex with anyone, but if that's true, clearly went to have sex with himself while watching porn. Naked women and other people having sex right next to him.

[B]

This is actually a tricky one because if it's a. It's like, it's two businesses in one. It's a sex shop for supplies, but also it has these movie theater sex rooms as well. So I guess we have to see. What did the receipts say? She literally has the receipts. Like, are the receipts for him watching movies or are there receipts for like. No, he was buying lube and toys for the two of you to use together. Like, that wouldn't be cheating.

[A]

Yeah, but I would. I would feel like I would say, okay, yeah. So if you're just going to buy lube and some sex toys for you guys to use. Why would you choose to go to that sex shop?

[B]

Maybe that's the only one they have in their place.

[A]

That would be fair, though. That would also, to me, kind of feel like it would be a smart thing to do, to be like, hey, babe, I'm gonna go buy some stuff. This is the only sex shop we have. God, it's such a. It's. It's so annoying.

[B]

Let's go together.

[A]

Yeah, let's go together. Or like, man, it's so weird and annoying that the only sex shop we have in town also has all these opportunities for more to happen. I'm gonna go. I'm literally just going in to get whatever versus being found out way later. I mean, the problem with someone, your partner finding out about something way later is that you have to expect that their mind is kind of going to run through all the possibilities and assume the worst because you weren't upfront about it. So. Yeah, I mean, but honestly, that would be my first thing is just, why. Why did you choose to go to that one if not to, you know, to access the seedier element of what is there?

[B]

Well, but again, even then, like, it's still complicated. So let's say that he went just to go watch porn and masturbate in this movie theater. Again, like, some people would say, I don't want any porn in our relationship. That feels like cheating to me. Other people are like, but, you know, you get to have your own relationship with your own body, and, you know, masturbating is okay, and watching porn while you're masturbating is okay. So I think some people would not necessarily define this as cheating. The piece around other people having sex in the same room is really interesting to me because at least within our community, whenever we ask about pornography, I feel like we have a pretty even split of. Some people feel like I don't want porn to be a part of our relationship. Like, that feels like cheating to me. And a lot of people, you know, I'd say probably half and half. A lot of people saying no, like, porn is fine. Maybe there's some, you know, certain guidelines or obviously, you know, we don't want that being the only thing that we're doing. But, like, a lot of people are totally fine with having porn as a part of their relationship. So with porn, you're watching other people have sex, but this idea of being in a room where other people are having sex, but you're not participating in that. Is it any different?

[A]

Well, yeah, I think that the, the live nature of it makes it akin to, you know, other. Other ways in this day and age that there can be like a more live or direct element to, to porn,

[B]

but if you're not participating in it at all, this is a really interesting thing for people to talk about in their own relationship.

[A]

I mean, I don't have an answer. I don't have an answer other than. Other than it is important to talk in your relationship. Because I think the problem is we, many couples may have had the conversation of, hey, is porn okay? Yes or no?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if that's the only conversation you've had, one partner can assume, oh, well, that obviously means that any. That like, we just are talking about you watching porn on your computer, like at home alone, no one else around. Right. And the other partner could be like, oh, yeah, no, I have complete permission to, like, do that in a live setting to do that, like, you know, with somebody else. Right. So it's like, that is clearly not especially in this technological day and age, because, like, this wasn't possible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Ten plus. Well, the porn movie theater absolutely was possible ten plus years ago. But like, but like, the stuff we have available to us online with porn and cameras and video and all that stuff is completely different ballgame. So. Yeah, like, it's not. It's not enough to assume that a conversation that you had in a different technological era covers this one. Like, have the conversations, please.

[B]

Yeah, I guess I'm kind of mulling it over the, like, live nature of it. I guess it feels more like there's more possibility of setting yourself up for failure here. Yeah, because.

[A]

And there's like, roving prostitutes in the area.

[B]

Yes, I was trying to take that part of it out. I was just thinking about the actual act of watching other people have sex live versus on a screen. There is more possibility that maybe you, you know, you could get involved versus obviously watching them on a screen you couldn't.

[A]

It's really kind of. It's kind of like saying, oh, well, like, wait, you went to a sex club and the partner's like, yeah, I was just doing my own thing, watching other people. Right. Like, where it's like, oh, yeah, if that is true, then, yeah, technically you weren't. You didn't touch anybody. You. No one touched you. You didn't do anything. You were just masturbating or you were just watching. But yeah, I mean, I think like, just my own common sense barometer where I'm at right now in My life is like, yeah, that feels like a step beyond. Like, you've had to take a number of steps from porn is on the table to what I'm doing now is. Is okay.

[B]

Okay, let's move on to the next one. When I was five months pregnant.

[A]

Oh, this is gonna be a doozy.

[B]

Let's just like, let's just set a rule that when you're. When your lady's pregnant, just, like, be on your best behavior. She's doing something really hard, like, don't be an asshole during the summer.

[A]

Don't attempt to be consistently at the. At what you might think are the very, like, bleeding edge of the bounds of your relationship. That might just be a smart idea.

[B]

Okay. When I was five months pregnant, my husband was on a work trip and took naked pictures of a random girl he met at a bar.

[A]

At least it wasn't, you know, his longtime friend. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

[B]

Took naked pictures of a random girl he met at a bar in her bathroom. After going back to her house with her and her friends, he called me that night and said he was being a wingman for his friend and co workers who were single and was so proud of himself for telling me and being honest. He got upset that I got mad about him for going in the first place.

[A]

Cheating and gaslighting.

[B]

What is this, like, all this wingman shit?

[A]

The only way.

[B]

Like, what freaking excuse is this? No, I wasn't cheating. I was just doing it for my.

[A]

Yeah, if you set that. If you set the. You took naked pictures alone with her in her bathroom part aside, and it's like, oh, yeah, I was with my friend. You know, I was with my co workers and one of. One or two of them were single. And, you know, so like, we met, you know, we met these people and then we went back to their house. I can see a vague argument at a certain point, though, in a long term relationship. I can also see that, yo, just go. Go back to your hotel room, go to sleep. Be smart. Your wife is pregnant. Don't be an idiot. But I can't. I can't understand the, like, you know, being a winged person for your friends. If it was like, oh, we were trying to help my friend out who had been single for a really long time and like, you know, was hitting it off with this person, I can kind of understand that. But that is not what happened here. You. Yeah, you were taking naked pictures of somebody. Just.

[B]

No, Just. No.

[A]

This is just gross and not cool.

[B]

It kills me that he was proud of himself for sharing. Like, what. I mean, I'm glad that he shared and came clean. Otherwise she probably never would have known. But on what planet do you think you get brownie points for this?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I hope that this. I mean, I don't think that this is the, the, the. The foundation for a successful relationship. I'm so sorry. Because you were five months pregnant at the time. I don't know.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

How far along you are or how old your kid is. I'm so sorry that this happened. And. Yeah. I mean, unless your partner is able to take full accountability for what happened and understand how what they said to you afterwards was very extremely manipulative and gaslighting and how wrong that was given the situation and really take some ownership and taking steps so that things like this do not cannot happen. Yeah. This is not the recipe for long term success or trust or love connection, anything. All right, on to the next one. He went to the gym and became friends with this woman. They got close and so did I. I would hang out with her one on one. She would sometimes drop him back home from the gym because he doesn't have a car. Never thought it was weird till he opened up and talked about his past sexual experiences. Like, seemingly a therapy talk. But I still found this to be mut. To be too much and crossing a line. Then one day he said at the gym that he'd fuck her. He meant as like a friend joshing around kind of comment. She felt triggered from her past and stopped going to the gym. She stopped wanting to see me. Now a year later, she wants to talk to him about it to clear the air. Can't tell if I can deal with them going back to being friends.

[B]

Okay, this is weird. All right, let's. Let's break this down into pieces. I think telling somebody that you would fuck them, that feels like it crosses a line for me. And I don't care if you're joking about it or not. And again, for some couples, this is gonna be like, that's super hot. I don't care. Whatever.

[A]

The thing I can't tell is, was she. Was the, was the person writing it? Was she there at the time or is this like you found out later? I can't tell. You know, it's sort of like, oh, like I'd hit that. Or like, oh, you know, if this were 10 years ago, like, or, you know, if I met you at a bar. I don't know. Like, it's not great. It is really not great. It's not great.

[B]

It's not like, the worst thing in the world.

[A]

What I'm trying to. Yeah. What I'm trying to gauge is, like, is it like she finds out later that he's like, oh, yeah, I'd you at the gym, but he swears that he meant it in a friend joshing kind of way, or like, were you there? And you were like, yeah, it was not a smart thing to say, but it wasn't like, yeah, I'd like to go to the bathroom and have sex with you right now. It was. It was in a. In a different way to me. Those feel a little different. Like, is she backing him up on this? Like, I wish he hadn't said that, but it wasn't like, to me, it wasn't, like, across the line. But I can understand how that was triggering for the woman who received it. That. That I can't tell. It seems like she's a little bit kind of like, not super upset with him about all of that. It's more her. The question is, I can't tell. I can't tell if I can deal with them going back to being friends, which is a. A valid concern.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's fine in this scenario for this person to say. To, like, draw a line and say, yeah, I don't want you to be friends with this person also, because, like, the woman herself got, you know, felt uncomfortable, clearly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, she broke off contact with both of them. I do think, like, if I was in this scenario, I would probably give my partner permission to have a conversation with her because it sounds like she's wanting to clear the air and maybe, like, say, like, hey, that really upset me that you did that. I thought we were friends. You crossed a line. Like, I think he owes her an apology, and I'd be fine with that. But, yeah, the idea of, like, the two of them becoming friends again, it could feel a little less uncomfortable. But I want to talk about the talking about sex with another person. I think this is going to be a real hot button issue for people that a lot of people are going to disagree with personally. And this is probably because this is our profession. You know, we talk about sex a lot, and we wind up talking about sex with a lot of different people once they find out what we do.

[A]

Is this a bad time for me to tell you that I'm actually really uncomfortable with that? And I want. I want us to stop.

[B]

We talk about sex with a lot of people, so I personally don't Think that talking about sex with somebody is cheating. Of course, it's all about the intent. Like, if you're talking about, here's what I would do to you if we fucked, yes, that's not cool. But if it's kind of processing. She said it seemed like a therapy talk. Like, yeah, here were some experiences that I had in the past, or, like, here are things that I have struggled with in the same sort of way that you might talk about relationship challenges. Like, yeah, I've really struggled to be vulnerable, or I struggle with communication, something like that. I don't think just straight up, the idea of talking about sex with another person crosses a line.

[A]

I mean, here. Here's a great example. Like, let's say that they were at the gym together. I. I don't know where the person writing in is and all this. If she's, like, always at the gym with him or not. But whatever, set that aside. Let's just say that, like, they're at the gym and they're friends and they're talking. I could see a scenario like this happening. What if she's like. She's like, oh, I was, you know, I was like, out on a date. I was like, you know, on a date with someone last night, and we, like, you know, went home afterwards and we started having sex and he lost his erection. And, like, I didn't know what to do. And then the guy goes, oh, yeah, you know, that's really tough. Like, that's happened to me before. You know, here. Like, here's, you know, here. Oh, yeah. Like, here's a couple examples of times that that happened to me. And here's how I handled it, or here's how I felt about it. Like, that doesn't feel inappropriate, per se. Like, I feel like you're doing this person a service. If you feel like you have a good way to handle that. I mean, because it's like, we tend to shy away from these challenging conversations. That's literally why we do what we do. And it's like, if you feel like you have some value to add to help somebody feel more comfortable with something, then absolutely, go ahead and share it. If your partner is on board with that. If your partner is like, I do not want anybody ever knowing anything positive or negative about our sex life, then that's an understandable perspective for someone to have. But I do think you also have to evaluate, hey, do I feel like. Do I feel like that's something that I can deal with long term if I believe something really different? So it's like, yeah, I could see an example like that where it's like, you know, you're just trying to relate with someone and she had maybe a tough experience and you're trying to like, help her understand what happened and give some examples from your own sex life life. Then I would say no problem. But yeah, it's really hard to tell from this question. Do you wish you had more fun in your relationship?

[B]

If you're like most couples, you do, but you also struggle with, like, what exactly to do to have more fun and feel more connected.

[A]

And that is exactly why we created the Spark.

[B]

It's a monthly digital drop where you get one sweet date night, one spicy date night, a new sex position to try and therapist created connection questions delivered straight to your inbox. It is designed to keep things fresh, flirty, and easy, even in the busiest seasons of life.

[A]

Yeah. No planning, no awkward. What should we dos?

[B]

We lay out everything for you. All you have to do is follow the instructions. And the best part is that it is nine bucks per month. That's like the cost of a latte these days.

[A]

Yeah. So if you're ready for more laughter, more curiosity, and more fun, head on over to vmtherapy.com spark to join.

[B]

That's vmtherapy.com spark because a little spark goes a long way. Okay, let's go on to the next one. Found text messages with him and a girl he knew from years ago. She knew he had a vasectomy and asked if he still comes the same. What? Like, such a strange way to, like, open up.

[A]

Hey, I can see the text message. Hey, letter U.

[B]

You still come the same.

[A]

C U M. The same.

[B]

He said if we were both single, I would show you. Ugh, gross.

[A]

I mean, yeah, she shouldn't have asked that.

[B]

And he should not have. We should not have responded that she's married. By the way, the conversation also spoke about sex drives where she asked about mine. Girl. Oh, my God. And he told her it was low and he would prefer it five times a day.

[A]

Whoa, big daddy.

[B]

Also, I found these in deleted messages. Over 400 messages. Oh, no, this is not good.

[A]

I mean, yeah, he clearly knows that he shouldn't be having this conversation.

[B]

No, this is a no.

[A]

This is a hard doggy. It's a no for me.

[B]

Unless this is a good.

[A]

Unless it's. This is a part of your relationship that we like. Like sending flirty, sexy messages to other people?

[B]

I don't think so. Not usually sending this in.

[A]

I. I agree. I agree.

[B]

This Is a great example of, like, talking about sex. That this is like, a bad example of that versus having more of, like a therapy type of conversation with a friend.

[A]

Yeah, this is flirtatious.

[B]

Yeah. This is a, like, what would it be like if we were fucking each other kind of thing.

[A]

You're effectively sexting each other.

[B]

Other. Yes. You're definitely sexting each other. Yeah. The bottom line here with this one is this just feels like inappropriate, unnecessary conversation. I hate that the other woman is, like, bringing up, trying to compare, like, your sex drives, which is super weird. And yeah, this is definitely something that feels like it crosses the line.

[A]

Masturbation in general. I genuinely struggle to find my own feelings on this. This. I don't think it's a clear yes or a clear no. I think you're entitled to explore your body and have a relationship with yourself. And I also think that your partner should get an opportunity to connect and that masturbation shouldn't be the default. I'd rather be in a relationship that prioritizes amazing sex together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My first question is, what is the relationship with masturbation in your relationship? Because I assume they're saying that it shouldn't be the default. I'm wondering if it is turning into the default for one or both of you.

[B]

Well, I think this is a really great topic that all couples should talk about. What is the role of masturbation in our relationship? You know, we've shared before that I feel really strongly that we can't 100% police each other's masturbation. Like, somebody is entitled to have a relationship with their own body. Just because you're in a relationship doesn't mean that you never get to have your own experience with your own body ever again. Now, that being said, there absolutely are ways that masturbation can be unhealthy within a relationship. If that's the default activity. Like, the main thing that you're going to. If you're choosing to masturbate over choosing to be with your partner on a consistent basis, if you're consistently turning your partner down for sex, but then going to masturbate by yourself, if you're masturbating in ways that are, like, actually harmful to your sex life, like, there can be a lot of complications there. So I think a good general rule of thumb would be to make sure you're prioritizing your intimate connection together over masturbating. So when you feel the impulse to masturbate, to ask yourself, like, could I go invite my partner to be intimate with Me instead. And it's okay if like sometimes, like there are different experiences. Sometimes we don't feel up to partnered sex, but we wanna masturbate because it'll help us get to sleep faster or it's just like a quick little release or trying to relie some stress, something like that. So it's not always like this one. For one, you know, I'm choosing to masturbate, but that means that I am not choosing to have sex with my partner. But I think in general trying more often than not to be intimate with your partner or at least inviting them to be intimate. And if your partner's like, hey, I'm not in the mood right now, great, go masturbate.

[A]

Yeah. Or, you know, I think a, you know, a key red flag is if you are finding that one, you know, one person is initiating sex and the other person is regularly turning them down because they've just masturbated or they're not in the mood, you know, they're not up for, they're not capable of, of having sex because they have recently masturbated, then that is probably a great sign that there's not a healthy relationship with masturbation. Or there's just unclear, you know, there's an unclear arrangement about how and when sex is prioritized.

[B]

Okay, let's do some rapid fires. We got a bunch of responses that weren't necessarily like longer stories, but we can just give our quick hot takes on them. Sending late night text messages to a long time friend, coworker that I can't sleep.

[A]

Not cheating, is it?

[B]

Is it like the person, the person is sending I can't sleep or are they sending my partner can't sleep?

[A]

Oh, yeah, the person, the partner is

[B]

writing it in saying that I can't.

[A]

I think that's supposed to be quotes.

[B]

Bad I can't sleep.

[A]

The person that the person texting is saying that they can't sleep.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I would. In and of itself, it is not cheating. It is getting dangerously close to a putting yourself in a unnecessary situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I mean, it's like, is that the only thing? Are they somehow like sleep accountability buddies or something? Like. But yeah, like I'm so interested in why the question is about that part of the text messages. Like what else, what else is going on in these text messages? We've talked about it for too long. What's your yes or no?

[B]

Not cheating, but knock it off.

[A]

Flying too close to the side.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. Masturbating while thinking about someone other than

[B]

your Spouse not cheating. But I think that you should be careful about this.

[A]

Potentially problematic.

[B]

Yeah, potentially problematic. I would apply the golden rule here. How would you feel knowing your partner was thinking about somebody else while masturbating? I think this can be okay. Sometimes you just have a random fantasy comes into your mind. Sometimes it's about a celebrity or a movie character or something like that. I think who it is can take on different. Like if you're like, you're thinking about my sister or like my best friend, then that's like, oh no, please don't do that. But if it's, yeah, if it's a celebrity or something like that, that you know that there's, you know, never a chance that person's gonna meet. And the general idea of not thinking about, like thinking about someone other than your spouse, I think that's really the golden rule thing here. How would you feel knowing that your partner was doing that?

[A]

And also it can, can be dangerous to your own sex drive, basically, if you are an art, like your own sexuality. I think if you find that the only way that I'm able to get aroused or the only way that I'm able to orgasm is with this very specific fantasy about this person that is probably a good sign that you've kind of like created an overly worn neural pathway that isn't going to be beneficial to you. So. So probably try to do some work to unwind that.

[B]

Sleeping with a mutual friend three days after ending our four year relationship.

[A]

Well, it's definitely not cheating because your relationship is over.

[B]

Yeah, hurtful. Yeah, I would totally be hurt in a scenario like this, but it's not cheating. You guys are broken up.

[A]

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I feel this sounds to me like probably just confirmation of why you broke up with this person.

[B]

Well, it sounds like broke up with them to then go have sex with the friend.

[A]

Confirmation as to why you should long term be glad that this is over. I know that you can't four days later, three days later be like, oh, I'm so glad that I got dumped. But like, you know, it's, it's a nail. It's a nail in the coffin. Having a dating app to make friends, but never meeting these friends in person.

[B]

I think being on a dating app when you're in a relationship is cheating.

[A]

Yeah, I would say, I would say cheating. Unless you very explicitly have been like, yeah, we're, that's super hot and we're both into that.

[B]

Yeah, an old hookup from years ago slid into my DMs to flirt. I flirted back, but we never met up. You admitted you're flirting. You're flirting with somebody.

[A]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's. At the very least, it is some degree of emotional.

[B]

I don't know though, like, infidelity is

[A]

like, maybe too far. It's, it's such a great. It's. I, I guess I would probably say, yeah, technically it is not cheating, but it is highly questionable.

[B]

I take, I have to take back my hot take from the beginning of the episode.

[A]

Yeah, I was, I was actually kind of surprised. I was kind of surprised by that one. And that's why I added my caveat. Well, assuming you've really had all the conversations, yeah, it should be black and white, but.

[B]

No, no, no. What I meant to say is, okay, cheating is not black and white, but physical. Doing dumb shit is more black and white.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Than most of us give it credit. Like, most of us think it is. Like, just don't do stuff like this. Come on, people. Okay. But I will say though, I, I don't necessarily think that flirting is cheating. I think that really depends. There are a lot of shades of flirting. Like, I think just being friendly with somebody and kind of batting your lashes and smiling. Like, I think that that can, that's a fun way to like bring the zing into daily life and then you bring that energy home with you to be with your partner. Like, I think that can be really like, like innocent flirting. I think there, there can be innocent flirting and then there's flirting where it's like, what are you doing? Come on. Don't, you know, like talking about, do you still come the same and oh, if we were, you know, I'd show

[A]

you getting into specifics.

[B]

Yeah, there's definitely some stuff here. So. But I think in general, I tend to go a little bit more on the side of like, flirting is, is okay as long as you're, as long as you are aware of what your intentions are. Are. If you're like, I'm just, you know, bringing a little flirty energy into my day to day life, like, that's fine. Versus, like I'm trying to flirt with somebody because I want them to want me or I want to see if they're open to hooking up with me. Like, obviously.

[A]

Well, I mean, arguably the guy that took the naked. The nude pictures while he was being the wing person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Could claim, well, my intention was to be just a wing person. And you know, my, like horny single,

[B]

that was so much more than flirting

[A]

and was Too drunk to take the them himself, so I had to do it.

[B]

Sending and receiving nudes from other people. Okay, see, this is where I should have said my. My hot take. Like, just don't do this, guys. Come on. Sending and receiving nudes.

[A]

Well, I can't control if people want to send them to me.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Meeting up for lunch with an old partner and not telling your spouse about

[A]

it, it's not cheating. But that's not advisable.

[B]

I wouldn't just tell them. Why wouldn't you tell them?

[A]

Yeah, why don't you want to tell like, it's the. Why don't you want to tell them? That is a problem.

[B]

There's no. There's no issue with meeting up, you know, for lunch with an old partner.

[A]

I mean, I assume the reason you didn't tell them is because you thought that they would not be okay with it and you wanted to be able to do it. Even if it's just, like, for, you know, reconciliation or you know, that nothing is going to happen, but you don't want to be in the situation where then your partner for forbids you replying to a girl's IG story with fire emoji. And what was it like?

[B]

The drooling, drooling emoji.

[A]

Drooling emoji.

[B]

No, don't do it. Don't do it. I'm not. No.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, not cheating, but just don't. Don't do it.

[B]

This is the theme of the episode. It's not cheating, but just don't.

[A]

Just don't.

[B]

I'm straight, but I was drunk in Vegas and pecked a girl on the lips. I love this. I love that. It's just a peck.

[A]

I just say that depends on what you're partner thinks about that one.

[B]

Oh, I say straight up, not cheating.

[A]

A peck.

[B]

She's straight. It's just a peck.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Texting an ex and reminiscing about their previous sex life together.

[B]

Don't do it.

[A]

I mean, that's cheating. Kind of getting into the.

[B]

That's cheating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Paying to sex with strangers. He will even send pics. I want to know.

[A]

Like, he will even. Like, that's what he's paying to do.

[B]

What is this app where you, like, pay to sex with strangers? It's kind of cracking me up.

[A]

Someone's just making out like a bandit

[B]

from that sex with strangers app. This is cheating.

[A]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Come on, guys.

[A]

Using toys alone when you agreed to only use them together.

[B]

Not cheating.

[A]

Not cheating. But you are breaking a relationship.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Like you're being unfaithful to the rules of your relationship. If you have agreed that that's not something.

[B]

I think that's a dumb rule. Like you can't make a rule. That said, you can only use this toy with me. That's weird. That's weird to me. But I'm curious. What do other people think? Okay, those are our hot takes. Would love to hear your thoughts. Do you agree? Do you disagree with us? You can leave comments on Spotify or on YouTube. By the way, our full videos of these episodes are on YouTube. A lot of people don't know that. Or you can come over to Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Zander. I'm sure we'll have a post up about this episode. Let us know what you agree and disagree with. And feel free to send us a submission too. I think we will probably continue doing these episodes. Is this Cheating Part four? And if you can't get enough of this topic, you can go back and listen to parts one and two.

[A]

Yeah, if y' all keep cheating, we'll keep doing these episodes.

[B]

I mean, please stop cheating and please stop doing bad things that you know

[A]

are gonna set yourself decrease the incidence of cheating within our community. That would be great. So just stop.

[B]

All right, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.