E267: The Hygiene Episode

Summary

Pillow Talks Podcast with Vanessa & Xander Marin - Episode 267: "The Hygiene Episode"
Released: July 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid, humor-filled episode, Vanessa (sex therapist) and Xander (her refreshingly regular partner) dive into the not-so-glamorous but ultra-relatable topic of hygiene and sex. Using audience questions as a springboard, they laugh, cringe, and debunk myths while providing practical advice on hygiene expectations, gendered shame, "the gush," bad breath, and more. This lively conversation is as informative as it is entertaining—think real “sex education you wish you'd had.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Intersection of Hygiene and Shame

(00:38 – 05:34)

• Sex as “Dirty”: Vanessa sets the stage, explaining how society’s “sex is dirty” message breeds confusion and shame, especially around intimate cleanliness.
• Lack of Sex-Related Hygiene Education: Both hosts share how little practical, non-shaming information they got growing up, highlighting the void ("Did anybody ever teach you, like, how to take care of your penis?" - Vanessa [01:50]).
• Confusion Between Psychological & Physical Dirtiness: Xander distinguishes between feeling “psychologically dirty” versus being physically dirty.

  “We use the same word—‘dirty’—for internalized shame and actual lack of cleanliness. It’s doing us no favors!” – Xander [04:10]

2. Answering Listener Hygiene Dilemmas

a. Sex After Bathroom Use:

(07:57 – 17:50)

• The “No Shower After Toilet” Conundrum:
  Listener Q: “My husband sits on the toilet for an hour, then wants me to give him a BJ right afterwards. NO SHOWER.”
• Hosts’ Reaction: Comic banter about anatomy, toilet splash risks, and men's “foreskin areas.”
• Are Genitals ‘Dirty’ After the Toilet?:
  • Vanessa consults their AI assistant, “Claude,” for the science: Actual risk is minimal if wiping front-to-back, and showering after every bowel movement isn’t practical or necessary.

    “The risk isn’t really fecal matter migrating to the genitals during active pooping. It’s the wiping and the proximity... especially in women.” – Vanessa quoting Claude [11:53]

• Takeaway: Basic wiping suffices unless there are actual odors or visible mess; if concerned, use a wet wipe for courtesy.

b. Panty Liners & Vaginal Discharge:

(18:01 – 28:08)

• Should Women Wear Panty Liners Every Day?
  Vanessa: “Yes, some do. Should they? Absolutely not.” [18:01]
  • Daily use disrupts vaginal pH, increases discharge, and can cause odor and irritation.
  • Discharge is normal and healthy (the vagina is self-cleaning). Visible residual in underwear is not a sign of a problem.
• Men’s Understanding & Stigma:
  Xander asks for clarification on panty liners and normal discharge.

  “So it’s almost like it was built for dirty sex.” — Xander, jokingly admiring evolutionary design [20:56]

  • Panty liners made of synthetic fibers are discouraged; breathable, organic cotton is best.
• “Will my partner find my discharge gross?”
  • Xander: “I have experienced plenty of vagina, but never noticed discharge as an issue.” [26:13]
  • The hosts stress: No sexual partner is likely to notice ordinary discharge during intimacy.

c. Bad Breath & Toothbrushing

(28:09 – 37:13)

• Prevalence of the Question:
  “There were a shocking amount of questions about men who don’t brush their teeth.” — Vanessa [28:33]
• Class & Upbringing Matters:
  They acknowledge that socioeconomic factors can affect hygiene habits.
• How To Bring Up This Issue
  • Use sensitivity, anchor the conversation in intimacy ("It’s not just ‘you’re gross’. It's about us enjoying each other.").
  • Xander: “You’re saying, hey, I’m noticing something that’s getting in the way of us being as close as we want to be.” [32:11]
  • Offer actionable tips, e.g., keep breath mints or strips near the bed; discuss dietary causes gently.
• On Lying to Soften the Blow:
  Vanessa suggests framing it as your own heightened smell sensitivity to spare feelings if needed.

d. The “Gush”/Post-Sex Semen Leakage

(38:31 – 42:51)

• What Is the “Cup and Shuffle”?
  • Many women use their hand or a tissue to “cup” themselves and shuffle to the bathroom after sex (“the gush” of semen post-intercourse).
• Can You Prevent It?
  • Unless you use a condom or he doesn’t finish inside, “the gush” is pretty much inevitable.
  • Some women pulse pelvic muscles to expedite removal, though Vanessa finds it ineffective.
  • Gravity is the main culprit; expect leakage minutes to hours after sex.
  • Both hosts normalize the mess and suggest having cleaning supplies handy.

e. Semen Smell & Taste

(42:51 – 45:27)

• Is Bad-Smelling Semen Normal?
  • The smell and flavor of semen (or vaginal fluids) are not supposed to be like “vanilla breeze.” Strongly offensive odors can signal an infection, but most taste issues arise from diet, alcohol, or smoking.
  • The pineapple myth is debunked (“Big pineapple knew what they were doing and planted the seed to keep themselves relevant for a long time.” — Xander [44:39]).

f. Baths Versus Showers: Clean Enough for Oral Sex?

(45:27 – 50:05)

• “My hubby says my vagina isn’t clean if I only take a bath. He won’t go down on me after.”
  • Vanessa: “It sounds like the husband is just being a dick.” [47:14]
  • The vagina is self-cleaning; as long as basic hygiene is practiced, specific rituals are unnecessary.
  • The distinction between vulva (external, gets cleaned) and vagina (internal, self-cleaning) is emphasized.
  • Bubble baths and scented products can be irritating; simple warm water is best.

g. What Should Vulva Owners Do To Stay Clean?

(50:05 – 52:06)

• All you need is warm water, no soap, deodorants, or feminine sprays—even “special” intimate products can disrupt pH and promote odor.
• For optimal vulva health: avoid daily panty liners, let skin breathe, wear cotton underwear, and skip all perfumes or harsh cleansers.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shame and Hygiene:

  “It would almost do us a service if there were different words for feeling dirty vs. being dirty.” – Xander [04:10]

• On the After-Poop BJ Question:

  “Girl, we all poop. You do, too. If you have to shower after every time you use the bathroom, life is going to be tough.” – Vanessa [16:16]

• On Discharge:

  “Discharge is a normal part of the cleaning process... When we disrupt that cleaning process, we are ironically making ourselves less clean.” – Xander [24:40]
  “Your vagina is great at keeping itself healthy and clean and well-balanced.” – Vanessa [20:50]

• On Bad Breath and Intimacy:

  “We’re not just saying, ‘Hey you’re gross, fix it.’ It’s about us having the experience we want together.” – Xander [32:11]
  “Some couples will just be blunt – ‘Hey, you’re stinky, go brush your teeth’ – and that works. But it’s different if it’s every day.” – Vanessa [33:08]

• On Societal Myths:

  “There is an entire industry that is built around making us feel like our genitals are dirty and we need to keep them squeaky clean and tasting like candy apple and bubblegum princess.” – Vanessa [48:15]

• Playfully Debunking “Pineapple = Sweeter Bodily Fluids”:

  “Big pineapple knew what they were doing and they planted the seed to keep themselves relevant for a long time.” – Xander [44:39]

• Closing on Self-Cleaning Vagina/Vulva:

  “Do not use soap. Do not use any products. Literally, leave your vagina alone and she is so much happier that way.” – Vanessa [51:10]

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Timestamps for Key Topics

• 00:38 – 05:34: The emotional/mental and physical aspects of “cleanliness"/hygiene talk
• 07:57 – 17:50: Bathroom use and sex; is showering necessary after pooping?
• 18:01 – 28:08: Panty liners and the truth about vaginal discharge
• 28:09 – 37:13: Bad breath, tooth brushing, and discussing hygiene with your partner
• 38:31 – 42:51: The “cup and shuffle” after sex; why the gush happens
• 42:51 – 45:27: Semen smell/taste; myths and realities
• 45:27 – 50:05: Are baths clean enough for sex? Partner shaming and vulva facts
• 50:05 – 52:06: What to actually do to keep vulva/vagina clean
• 52:33 – end: Teasers for unaddressed questions (vulva pimples, manscaping, etc.), outro

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Final Takeaways

• Normal Bodies: Bodies are inherently messy, and that’s not just okay—it’s healthy.
• Honest Conversations: Laughing at awkwardness, coupled with empathy, can make tough hygiene talks with your partner easier and less shaming.
• Practical Advice: Skip daily panty liners, use only water on vulvas, and keep open, caring communication about bodily fluids and smells.
• There Might Be a Part Two! The hosts have lots left to say on the subject—listeners are encouraged to request more hygiene Q&A (e.g., pimples, manscaping, “smegma”...).

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants less shame, more laughter, and evidence-based, totally doable hygiene tips to keep sex—and relationships—fun and real.

Transcript

[A]

There are a lot of people out there dealing with a partner who has bad breath. And there were. I have to say, there were a shocking amount of questions about men who don't brush their teeth.

[B]

Why,

[A]

Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20

[B]

years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

[A]

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. We're tackling a topic today that I don't think it's talked about enough. And when it does get talked about, it's often shrouded in a lot of shame, and that is hygiene and sex. Or even more generally, like, the issue of cleanliness around sex. We have to acknowledge, like, we have all been raised to believe that sex is this dirty, sinful, shameful, taboo, forbidden act. Obviously, varying degrees, right? But we've all gotten this message that it's dirty in a way, and I think a lot of us have internalized that shame to feel. It's made us feel like we need to find ways to keep ourselves clean around it. But then making it more complicated is the fact that there are actual hygiene issues. Like, there are ways that we need to take care of our bodies, things that we should and shouldn't do, consequences that can happen if we don't take care of our bodies. And those are things that we don't ever get taught. Like, did you ever. Did anybody ever teach you, like, how to take care of your penis?

[B]

You know what? I do feel like I have a memory of my parents saying, because I'm circumcised. And so, you know, saying, like, I guess it doesn't matter whether I was circumcised or not, but just, like, talk, you know, make sure you wash, like, your foreskin area with soap. I do remember that.

[A]

Your foreskin area. But you don't have foreskin.

[B]

Well, I mean, there's still little folds. Not as many folds.

[A]

Wait, what? Your foreskin area?

[B]

Well, I mean, like, the area that, you know, like, was snipped.

[A]

What folds are you. I'm like, thinking of your penis, and

[B]

I'm Right now I'm like, wait, have

[A]

I missed a fold?

[B]

Not, like, folds like wrinkles. I don't know. Like,

[A]

I'm not ready for anything.

[B]

I clearly don't have to worry about this.

[A]

I'm literally trying to picture your penis right now. Wait, if I miss. Is there a fold?

[B]

When it's hard, there are no folds.

[A]

Was there a wrinkle? Did I miss something? Wait, they actually told you, keep your foreskin area clean? That would have been really confusing if you don't have foreskin.

[B]

Well, no, no, I don't think they said it like that. I think it was just, like, to wash my penis area with soap.

[A]

Okay, Well, I certainly was told absolutely nothing about how to take care of my vulva and vagina. So, yeah, it's like, how would we know this stuff if nobody's directly teaching it to us? And then on top of it, we have all this shame about it being this, you know, sensitive part of our body that nobody's supposed to see, and all the shame around sex in general. Like, it's just one big, massive shame spiral.

[B]

Yeah. It is so interesting how we jump from something feeling or seeming physically dirt or, sorry, emotionally dirty. Like. Like, psychologically dirty. Oh, I didn't. Like. It feels dirty to. It is physically dirty, which is so interesting. It's like, it almost does us a disservice that we use the word dirty to mean two very different things. I think there's a.

[A]

The.

[B]

The experience of something feeling dirty is very different from something physically being dirty. Like, oh, yeah, like, oh, my feet are dirty from, you know, walking around barefoot outside. And I like. You do not feel dirty at all. It's not like you're not like, oh, God, I feel so gross about myself because of this. Like, you could have something physically dirty and not even know it. It's just so interesting how we kind of cross those is like, it would almost do us as. I'm curious if there's any other languages that have different terms for that. Like, the feeling. What we would consider the feeling of dirtiness or, like, icky. I feel kind of icky about what happened versus, like, oh, I am physically. My hands are dirty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because. Yeah. The fact that we use the same word does not help at all.

[A]

As you're talking about, like, dirty feet. I'm literally getting little Maggie kisses on my feet right now. Okay, so what we're gonna do is go over questions that came in from our Instagram audience. We just popped a question box up there. We said, you know, what question questions do you have? What confuses you? Are you dealing with any uncomfortable situations in your own relationship? We're at Vanessa And Xander, by the way, if you're not following us over there. And we got a ton of questions.

[B]

Surprise, surprise.

[A]

Yes. I mean, I really feel like, where. Where can you go to ask questions like this? Like, it's a very. I would be too embarrassed to talk to my friends about it. I'm not talking to my parents about it. You can search the Internet, but sometimes you get real weird answers. Like, it just. I think people feel very alone in how to deal with these specific issues. So we got a ton of questions. We're gonna go through them and give you our answers. I do wanna call one thing out. Like, we try to find the line in this podcast between being empathetic and sensitive and caring and also, like, being entertaining and funny and finding the humor in things. Yeah, finding, like, yeah, I think that's a big part of how we live our life is we try to find the humor in the most awkward, uncomfortable, painful situations. So I just kind of want to say, like, I can. I'm already kind of, like, giggling, looking at some of these questions. Cause I can just think of funny little, you know, rants and tangents we can go off on. But at the same time, I also want to acknowledge, like, these are. These questions are all coming from real people who are feeling real pain around this and not quite sure what to do. So I just kind of want to name that up ahead before we actually dive into it. But first, we have a quick favor that we want to ask of you. If we have ever made you laugh, taught you something, given you a little tip that's been useful for you, we would be so appreciative if you could subscribe to the show. All you need to do is hit that little plus button or a little subscribe button, depending on where you're listening. It literally takes a millisecond, but it genuinely makes such a big difference for the podcast. If you want to go the extra mile, get a gold star from us. Leaving a quick, like, star rating or review. It could even just be, like, two sentences. This podcast is great. You should listen to. Really, genuinely helps the podcast grow. I did not know this before having my own podcast. I never used to subscribe or leave any sort of reviews, but now I understand just how important it is and helping new people come in and find pillow talks. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much for doing that. The vast majority of people listen but never subscribe, never leave any sort of rating, and it really, genuinely does help us if you can do those things,

[B]

help us keep helping you.

[A]

Yes. Okay. Why don't we. You want to trade off going through the questions?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

My husband sits in the toilet for an hour and then wants me to give him a BJ right afterwards. No shower. I say it like that because no shower was all caps.

[A]

This is. This is, like, why I had to give the disclaimer, because I was looking ahead to this, and it's like, oh, my God.

[B]

So clearly this person believes that there should be a shower in between.

[A]

Wait, wait, hold on. I also have to call out. They said sits in the toilet in the toilet room.

[B]

I hope he's on the toilet. If he is sitting in the toilet, he absolutely needs a shower before anything, sex or otherwise.

[A]

You know what, though? This one was really interesting for me because I. I thought. I, Like, I haven't really thought about this before.

[B]

Yeah, it is an interesting thought. We sit on the toilet, and it also. Meaning our genitals are very. Are very close to the things that go into the toilet. I mean, hopefully they all go underwater. The things that go. The things that go into the toilet.

[A]

Oh, my God. I was like, wait a minute.

[B]

Hold on. We're lear something new today.

[A]

First of all, your foreskin area, and now your genitals are going into the toilet when you poo.

[B]

Absolutely not. No, no.

[A]

But just say poo.

[B]

Yeah, the. The poo. I. I don't know. I just. This is kind of, like, taking me down a path in my head that I don't really want to go down.

[A]

Comfortable saying poo.

[B]

No, your poo. Your poo goes in the toilet, and it goes under the water.

[A]

Hopefully the most, like, intimate parts of our relationship and our sex life. But you don't want to say poo.

[B]

Well, I was gonna say poop.

[A]

Poop.

[B]

Poop. Poop. But it just.

[A]

I usually say poop. I don't know why I'm saying your fecal matter.

[B]

Poo.

[A]

It's kind of a fun word to say both. Both ways. Poop.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Are we gonna gross ourselves out talking about this such that we need to change our hygiene habits?

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

I mean, because it is an interest. It is an interesting thought. I've never heard about it before. You're real mighty close. I mean, you realize, you ask me to make sure I close the toilet lid before flushing the toilet so that things don't come up into the air. And, you know, you're basically sitting there, whether you have a penis or a vagina, it is hovering less than a foot away from that water. Yeah. Should There be something done. I mean, it seems like a real simple solution to this is like a wet wipe.

[A]

Okay, so do you. When you poop, do you get a splash?

[B]

Very rarely.

[A]

Okay, but sometimes you get a splash like.

[B]

Yeah, that splashes up to your butt, though not to your.

[A]

Is it on your balls?

[B]

No.

[A]

And not on your penis?

[B]

No. Because the way I'm sitting on the toilet, it's like my butt is.

[A]

I don't understand because I don't have a penis. Where is your penis when you're pooping?

[B]

It's like at the front of the bowl. And my butt is more towards the back of the bowl. So anything that is splashing would be a splash triggered towards the back of the bowl.

[A]

But is your penis going into the bowl?

[B]

It's just like between my legs, basically, like sitting. It's just kind of wedged in there.

[A]

And where's the foreskin area at the

[B]

tip of my penis? Well, technically not, because it's more below the head.

[A]

So you've never gotten a splash, like up onto your balls or penis? No, because that's what I would think would be. Okay, sure, yeah, that could be. Although even that. It's like, we gotta think of the splash. There's not.

[B]

Is there clean water being pushed up by fecal matter?

[A]

Like, are there already. Are there already little microscopic bits of bacteria and fecal matter that are splashing back up? Or is it like you're really just getting the clean bowl water splashing back?

[B]

We clearly need a fecal expert to help us with this. Which we don't. Which we don't have.

[A]

She has Claude. Okay, well, then I'm going to ask. Okay, I asked. Clawd had to put this on incognito mode. Short answer, A shower is not strictly necessary, but good wiping is. The risk isn't really fecal matter migrating to the genitals during active pooping. It's the wiping and the proximity of the anus to the genitals. Especially. Especially in women, when you poop, the feces exits the anus. It doesn't pass over or touch the genitals. So defecation itself doesn't deposit stool on the penis, vulva or vaginal opening. The contamination risk comes from wiping. Like if you're wiping incorrectly and if you get fecal bacteria on the perineum.

[B]

So basically, moral of the story, guys, wipe front to back, okay? And wipe only one time. But you know what, with a given sheet of toilet paper or whatever you're

[A]

wiping with, what about splashing? Like, when the poop Hits the bowl, will it splash any bacteria back up onto the genitals?

[B]

Vanessa's dictating to Claude. God, I can't believe we're doing this.

[A]

Okay, okay. Realistically, no. This is not something to worry about. The genitals.

[B]

Oh, thank God.

[A]

And the genitals are the least likely target, even if splashing happens.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Toilet splashback is real. When the stool hits the water, it can create droplets. But where you're seated, like you were saying, I've never had splashback. I have never felt.

[B]

Really?

[A]

No, I would. I would say I have never felt a splash that, like, came back up and hit me. Maybe there were, like, tiny, microscopic drops that I couldn't feel. I don't know. But I've never, like, felt like, whoa. But from.

[B]

You just clearly aren't making man poops.

[A]

Yeah, from our. I was about to say from our conversations, I think our experiences are very different.

[B]

I mean, look where I land on this. At the end of the day, humans have been defecating and having sex for thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of years, and we don't have, like, mentions of, like, a sex related illness other than, like, you know, STDs, which, you know, only more recently were kind of understood as. As problematic things. But, like, yeah, the humans clearly are not getting sick and dying from having dirty sex. Yeah, physically dirty sex. I think that the body is pretty adept at fighting off infection. Now, do we want to be, like, eating our feces? No, absolutely not. That's why we're pooping them out. But, like, you know, we are also exposed to all kinds of microscopic gross particles of bacteria and blah, blah, blah, from everything that we do. I mean, if you want to go down that road of, like, oh, my God, I sat over some poop in the toilet and now my entire genital area is filthy until I clean it somehow. Like, I mean, then by that logic, well, God, if you, like, farted at all, then you're in trouble because, like, you let gas out in that general area, like, in your underwear, and the gas is going around towards your genitals. Like, man, we could really just make a case for, like, sex is probably never safe. Because, I mean, even if you wash yourself and get out of the shower, your towel might be dirty. Oh, God.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, this is the thing about hygiene is we do need to have. There are certain elements of having good hygiene, but we also can't go to this extreme where we're so constantly worried about contamination and bacteria and germs and dirt. Like, Those are all normal parts of human life. Like, human life is not sanitary. And actually, we have research showing that exposure to bacteria and germs and dirt, like, actually is healthy for us in a lot of ways. So it's not this black or white kind of situation.

[B]

Yeah. So I think to answer this person's question really specifically, you do not need to take a shower after using the bathroom. However, if you are feeling like, you know, he always is wanting. I'm curious, like, he always wants you to give him a BJ right after he poops. Like, I kind of have questions about that.

[A]

But he gets turned on, so he

[B]

regularly is wanting BJ's after going poop. If your concern with that is, like, it, like, his genitals don't smell good or. Or something like that. Like, sure, ask him to just use a little. Use a wet wipe, wipe the area off, have a little sponge bath. Like, that's, like, that's okay. But if what you're thinking is, I can't get the idea out of my head that, like, he's just sitting on the toilet, like, girl, like, we all poop. We all poop. You do, too. And if. Yeah, if you have to shower after every time you use the bathroom, like, life is going to be tough. Okay. Wow, we went deep there.

[A]

We really did. I feel like I could keep going.

[B]

No, we can't. We can't. Unless we want to just answer two questions on this podcast.

[A]

Kind of love talking about poop.

[B]

Just be like, the unexpected poop and sex episode. We can still change the name of this.

[A]

We can't. I mean, it's our podcast. I honestly could.

[B]

How do you. How do you think the downloads would be if the title is Pillow Talks, episode 267, Sex and Poop. Would you listen to that episode?

[A]

It would be, like, a handful of people who'd get really excited and then really disappointed.

[B]

Yeah, it might. It might be a grower, not a shower. In terms of, you know, success. We'll see on.

[A]

All right. We'll force ourselves.

[B]

We're gonna move on. And we will try to be a little more expeditious in answering.

[A]

I make no promises.

[B]

Do women wear panty liners every day for discharge?

[A]

Okay. Do women do this? Yes. Should women do this? Absolutely not. So panty liners are actually not great for you to wear, especially on a daily basis. If they are, you know, your preferred method during your period. That's one. But they're pretty bad for you, actually, to use when you're not on your period. So let's kind of back this up a second. We women are given so much crappy socialization about our genitals. We're made to feel like they're really icky and they smell bad and they taste weird and they're, you know, ooh, discharge. We have another discharge question that's coming up next. We're made to feel so gross about our discharge.

[B]

Can you even back this up for some of the men here might not even really fully understand, like, what is a panty liner? And, like, what is discharge?

[A]

Oh, okay. Yes.

[B]

Because I remember this was something when I was coming of age that I was very curious about.

[A]

So vaginas emit discharge all month long, and the discharge changes throughout the course of the month. Sometimes you can have more of it or less of it.

[B]

So kind of like perspiration?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's like. It's the vagina's way of cleaning itself out, keeping, you know, keeping itself nice and healthy. And it can change consistency. It could be more, like, clear during certain parts of your cycle. It can be more, like, whitish. It can even be thinner or thicker. And the vast majority of discharge is totally healthy. This is something that my parents never talked to me about. I never got any sort of lessons about it. So when I remember when I first started having discharge, I felt like something was horribly wrong with me. Like, oh, my God, what is going on? There's this stuff that I'm seeing in my underwear every day.

[B]

Do you actually see it or do you just see a stain?

[A]

No, you see it. I mean, you see it. It's, like, dried up. So you can see sometimes it looks more whitish. But, yeah, you definitely see something in your underwear. So a lot of women. Not all, but. And fortunately, not as many these days, but some women use panty liners as a way to take care of that discharge. So they're like, I don't want it to get on my underwear. Cause this other thing is sometimes discharge can actually stain too. Like, you can, because it's like the ph of it. It can, depending on the fabric of your underwear.

[B]

Acidic.

[A]

Yeah, it can change the color of your underwear. So some women get really embarrassed by this. Some women feel like something's wrong with them. They don't even know that it's a totally normal thing for this to happen. And actually, like, a very healthy thing that your vagina is doing. Your vagina is great at keeping itself healthy and clean and well balanced.

[B]

So a lot of it's almost like it was buil for dirty sex.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

So some women will wear panty liners to catch the discharge. So a panty liner is like a very thin pad that you like smack into your underwear. It has like little adhesive on it and you wrap the wings around the side so it's like.

[B]

So it's like wearing a low flow pad. Yes, basically. So it's like instead of just wearing a pad on your period, you're like, I'm doing it 30 days a week. 30 days a week, seven days a week.

[A]

They're meant for those lighter days of your period. Like the, you know, the trail end of your period. It's like there's still a little bit left, but not that much. But some women use them for discharge. And actually though panty liners can disrupt the natural ph balance of your vagina, they can make it harder for your vagina to breathe.

[B]

Oh yeah. Because. Oh, I imagine they're not very. If they're absorbent, they're not super breathable. Right.

[A]

Yeah, they're meant so that pull or

[B]

so that nothing gets onto your, onto your underwear, then nothing can go the other way too. Like air is not coming in.

[A]

Yes. And your vagina is really meant to breathe. Even wearing underwear is not great for your vagina.

[B]

Yeah. Most people say at the very least, don't wear underwear when you're sleeping. Right.

[A]

Like, honestly, I try to wear underwear as little as possible because that is what's healthy as. And if I am going to wear vagina is great. Thank you. If I am going to wear underwear, it's going to be like organic cotton, natural fibers. Unfortunately, most women's underwear, especially the cute underwear, sadly, is made from essentially plastic, which is horrible to have.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, because if you think about it like, you know, we can absorb stuff from our skin. We absorb fewer things in the, you know, thicker areas of our skin. Right. But like, you know, there are certain areas that are highly permeable and the vagina is one of those areas. Everyone's heard the story of like the alcohol soaked tampon or whatever. Right. And like, you know, people getting alcohol poisoning thinking that they're just like putting a little bit of alcohol in there and it's like, oh, well actually that part of your body absorbs alcohol way more readily than when you drink it. And so like, you know, one shot might be equal to like five. You know, I don't, I don't know the accuracy, actual math. But like, you know, people run into problems with this all the time because yeah, the, the is, you know, it passes the Blood brain barrier very easily. And so it would make sense then that anything that you are putting in close contact with that any, you know, that thing can seep into your body much more readily than like a T shirt that you wear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For example. So is not a bad idea to be cognizant of what you are putting in close proximity to your vagina.

[A]

And ironically, if you wear panty liners every day, you actually are going to have more discharge. And because you may start disrupting your ph balance, it can actually be like, have a stronger odor to your discharge too. So again, the best thing to do is to either wear no underwear or only wear organic cotton underwear. And a lot of women will freak out and be like, you gotta be kidding. Like, I'm gonna have so much discharge if I do that, I'm gonna be soaking through all my pants. It's gonna be so embarrassing. You might have a little transition period like that, but when you let her breathe, she does not actually like, create a ton of discharge. So it's much healthier to just let her breathe. And you will not be like, I do not soak through my pants. Like, it's not an issue at all because I've been letting her breathe.

[B]

But I think that it's just important reminder. You were saying the vagina is self cleaning and discharge is a normal part of that cleaning process. So when we disrupt that cleaning process, we are ironically, actually we are making ourselves less clean. Like the vagina, if you let it do its job, you will stay clean. It's almost like, you know, like with a dishwasher or something. There's that little part that comes out like that drainage thing that like, where it can like spit little air. Little air and water, like into the sink. You know what I'm talking about? No, there's a little little thing that sticks up people know what I'm talking about?

[A]

Like a little air thing.

[B]

Yeah, the little air thing. If you were to like cover that up, your dishwasher will like still go, but like, it'll kind of mess it up over time because like, water, it needs to be able to like, that's part of. That's part of the process. Right. So it's like you're just making, you're making the whole cleaning process work less efficiently. And it's the same thing here.

[A]

Interesting comparison. Okay, all right, well, let me toss a discharge question back to you as our resident male here. I have a lot of discharge and I worry it's gross for him.

[B]

Like, in what? Like, like when I'm going down on you or something. Like when. Like, when would I. When would I experience it? I guess is the question.

[A]

Well, that. I mean, that is. So have you ever experienced. Do you know. Would you be able to tell me, like, how much discharge I have and whether it's like, a lot of discharge or not a lot?

[B]

No, I would not be able to tell. I mean, well, because I. I imagine that that discharge, it's not like it comes out in a cl. Like, it's not like. It's not like no discharge. No discharge. No discharge. Like two tablespoons of discharge. Right. Like, that's not how it happens. I imagine that is a slow. Yeah.

[A]

All throughout the day.

[B]

All throughout the day. And it's just slowly, you know, slowly accumulating or soaking into your. Your underwear. I almost said.

[A]

Oh, no, please. Vanessa hates that word, especially it's pronounced like that. Pontis.

[B]

But no, I mean, I. I have. I have not ever experienced discharge. I. I have experienced plenty of vagina. And. Yeah, I mean, it's just. I mean, I just imagine that's just part of the. It's part of the deal. Like, how can you. You can't stop yourself from having any of it at all. What about some minuscule amount, I guess, potentially is there? I've never thought of it. I've never noticed it.

[A]

What about when we're being intimate? Like, how much I get, like, how wet I get.

[B]

Love that. I mean, I imagine there must be some amount of discharge, like, mixed into that. Right? Like, it's just part of the.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's just the same part.

[B]

I mean, it's probably just lubricating, if anything. So what's the problem? Okay, you've got a well lubricated vagina if you have extra discharge. And also to this person, probably a similar situation. If you are. If you are very concerned about your discharge, you are probably doing things to try to prevent or soak up your discharge, like using panty liners that are possibly or likely making your discharge worse. Take some of Vanessa's tips. Don't sleep with underwear at night. Please don't wear panty liners.

[A]

Patty liners.

[B]

Patty liners. I know you don't like the word, so trying to switch it up.

[A]

Okay, next I want to talk about. This was probably one of the top three topics that emerged in the questions that we got asked, and it is bad breath. There are a lot of people out there dealing with a partner who has bad breath. And there were. I have to say, there were a shocking Amount of questions about men who don't brush their teeth.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

And whether that's like. There were some that were like, my husband, you know, my partner, he only brushes his teeth like once a day or like a couple times a week. And there were kind of a shocking number of questions that said, like, my husband, partner, whatever, like, does not brush his teeth at all. Which, like, doesn't believe in that big dental. Who is not brushing their teeth and why they're not doing that. But we also had a lot of questions about, like, bad breath in general that. That didn't talk about toothbrushing habits.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So here's one example. Like, suggestions for when your spouse has bad breath. It's not that he doesn't brush his teeth, but I can't stand it. And I have an overly sensitive smeller that doesn't make things easy, but I can't get past it. And it has totally affected my desire to want to be intimate. It's my biggest holdback. And I do wanna make sure. So I want you to address this. But I also wanna make sure we're acknowledging that a lot of hygiene issues have, like, class and socioeconomic status tie ins as well. Like, if you, you know, grew up and your family might not have had the money to buy the proper supplies, they might not have had, like, been able to be around to teach you simple things like this. So, you know, I want to be really sensitive here and acknowledging it's not just. It's not that there are a bunch of people who just somehow are being dummies who don't want to brush their teeth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so I want to say that too. But. Yeah. What do we do if our partner is not brushing their teeth and. Or having bad breath?

[B]

I mean, I definitely think we have to tackle this one carefully, slowly and sensitively. And honestly, I think that we've both had conversations with each other about this. We've each had experiences with. With breath or body odor that we have had to tackle gently with each other. And you know, usually there is some. Usually there is some reason behind it, like something changed in the diet or, you know, for me, I had a situation where I had started taking a new supplement.

[A]

We both did. Yeah, we both had that where we were taking a supplement and it gave both of us bad breath and each other had to like, very. Because we didn't notice it ourselves. And yeah, we had to call it out like, hey, so.

[B]

Yeah. And I think similar. There was maybe something like, with body odor too, of like some. There was Something new that, you know, was being used, and then it was like, oh, that's not really working. It is a tricky one. It's not just a, hey, you smell gross, or, yeah, dude, your mouth is disgusting. Like, that is just gonna feel shameful and is more likely to get defensive reaction. I think that the way to approach it is you have to come, you know, you have to tell your partner, hey, I want to talk about something that is a little sensitive. You're kind of teeing them up for, you know, this is something that's a little sensitive. I want to talk with you about it because I really care about you. And if it's something that is getting in the way of you two having sex, then I think that you can actually. Honestly, I think that's a positive thing because you can kind of loop in, like, and, you know, and us, you know, being intimate is really important to us. And, you know, and I'm sure that if the tables were turned, like, you would, like, you would feel the same way, you know, and then share, like, hey, I have been noticing your breath has had an odor. And I'm finding that it is, you know, it is challenging for me to be focused on the experience and feel as, like, close to you as I want to be. You're not just saying, hey, you're gross and disgusting and you need to fix something. It's. You're saying, hey, I'm noticing something that is getting in the way of us being able to be as close as we want to be or having the experience that we want to together. And I really care about you. And, you know, I. I hope that, you know, if the tables return, that you would say something similar to me, because I, you know, I care about. Yeah, you know, I care about this. You know, I care about your experience. I, you know, I hope you care about my experience. And so I'm wondering if we could, you know, look at, like, you know, so. Yeah. If in this case, this.

[A]

Wait, can I give you a couple of other.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Tips. So if you're really worried. So, oh, some couples are gonna be like, we're not that careful with each other. We literally will just say, like, hey, you're stinky. Go brush your teeth, and like that. Obviously, that's totally fine if that's how you guys like to communicate. But if you're.

[B]

That works. That works. That works. I think that is much more likely to be successful if it is, you know, hey, your partner usually doesn't have stinky breath. And one day he comes and has really stinky breath is like, oh, hey, dude, like your breast stink. Like, just go brush your teeth, use a mouthwash. I do think it is a different does. What I was about to say is I think it's a different story. If it's like, actually this has been going on for years and years and it's, you know, it's not like, oh, you just changed something in your diet or you just started doing it using a different product that's causing that to happen.

[A]

So that's what I was going to say is I think if you're really nervous about your partner's feelings being hurt, I think that this is a case where it's fine to tell a small lie here and say something like, you know, I've just been noticing like a different smell. Even if it's the same terrible smell that you've been smelling for years, like, say that there's something slightly different that you've been noticing, or you can blame it on yourself. As women, we actually have a great excuse here with like, perimenopause and menopause, our sense of smell changes also. Women in general have stronger senses of smell, so you can kind of blame it on yourself in a way.

[B]

Like, you have much more.

[A]

I'm noticing some changes in my, you know, my nasal sensitivity and like, could you help me out?

[B]

Yeah. Women, I feel like, have a stronger smell to emotion connection.

[A]

That's just me. But maybe other women too. But yeah, I think if you kind of blame it on yourself in a little bit in that way, it can soften it for your partner if you're worried about their feelings. What would you say, though, if you have a partner who just doesn't consistently brush their teeth?

[B]

I would hope that using the, using you guys having better and more sex as kind of the carrot would be enough to, you know, create some motivation. But I do think that, you know, even if it. Because I think a lot of people also, a lot of people do brush twice a day and a lot of people drink coffee, and coffee can create some real serious breath. Something neither of us deal with fortunately, because neither of us drink it. But yeah, I mean, I know that's a, that's a serious thing. I know that's a serious thing from just being an employee and having managers with bad coffee breath, man. Like, you're sitting, you know, three feet away from someone, across them at a desk, and you can tell what their breath is like. That's wild. So I do think that there is an element too of just like, hey, Depending on the person's, you know, drinking or eating habits, can we brush our teeth so that we can have sex? I do think that that is a legitimate thing if there is a legitimate need for it. And I think some people are hesitant to do that because they feel like that takes the spontaneity out of it. But I do think that, you know, you could start a little bit of kissing or a little bit of touching and then be like, hey, like, let's go get freshened up for each other and then come back to it. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, I think that if you are finding that breath, whether it is because your partner is not brushing regularly or just cause, like, maybe they drink a lot of coffee or something, and that's really getting in your way, I do think it is reasonable to say, hey, like, for the sake of us having continued great sex, would you be open to making an adjustment in your, you know, in your routine or habit or whatever so that this thing isn't getting in the way? And I would try to flip it around too. Like, you know, consider what this might be like if the tables were turned and you were, you know, noticing, you know, you were starting to kiss me and noticing that it was, you know, unpleasant, like, what would you ask for? What would you hope that I would change? I think that that can be a way to soften it because that's. You're showing them. I'm not coming for you. Like, this is us, you know, against a problem.

[A]

Also, just have some breath mints and breath strips near your bed. That can be a nice, quick little solution, too.

[B]

Absolutely. Do you wish you had more fun in your relationship?

[A]

If you're like most couples, you do, but you also struggle with, like, what exactly to do to have more fun and feel more connected.

[B]

And that is exactly why we created the Spark.

[A]

It's a monthly digital drop where you get one sweet date night, one spicy date night, a new sex position to try and therapists created connection questions like delivered straight to your inbox. It is designed to keep things fresh, flirty, and easy, even in the busiest seasons of life.

[B]

Yeah. No planning, no awkward. What should we dos?

[A]

We lay out everything for you. All you have to do is follow the instructions. And the best part is that it is nine bucks per month. That's like the cost of a latte these days.

[B]

Yeah. So if you're ready for more laughter, more curiosity, and more fun, head on over to VM Therapy and dot com spark to join.

[A]

That's vmtherapy.com spark because a little spark goes a long way.

[B]

Does everyone do the old cup and shuffle after or clean up in bed? What is the. Oh, the. Oh, okay, I get it. I get it. I was like holding a cup because

[A]

you've never had to do it.

[B]

Oh, I've seen. I've seen this happen, though.

[A]

This is another one of my favorite topics to talk about. Nobody talks about the gush. What to do with the gush. So if you are in a male, female relationship, if you're having intercourse and not using any sort of barrier method, like a condom, you are going to have to deal with the gush. When your partner ejaculates into you, that fluid has to find its way out somehow.

[B]

Yeah, I think that we think of it as, like, oh, yeah, you know, like, the sperm all goes up inside of her. A very small amount of it goes up inside, and the vast, vast, vast majority of it comes right back out thanks to gravity.

[A]

So this can be extremely annoying. Some of it can come out right away, but sometimes it can linger there for minutes, hours, even the next day. And it is a strange sensation. I will just say you're just standing there, minding your own business, pouring yourself a glass of water or wiping down the counters, and all of a sudden you feel this coming out of you.

[B]

Could I. I just thought of something interesting. To all the people that are concerned about discharge, might I suggest that the gush is probably a much higher volume of fluid coming out. If you're so worried about what your partner is going to think about a tiny bit of discharge, which is basically just natural lubrication, plus more coming out of the vagina, like, might they be concerned about a whole bunch of semen, Their own semen? I mean, I don't know. Just kind of food for thought. Like, I'm not trying to freak people out about sex, but it's like, hey, body fluids are involved in sex. And we get them, you know, we get them on our hands, we get them in our mouths. Like, that's just part of the deal.

[A]

Yeah, but it genuinely is annoying to have to deal with. There really is nothing that you can do about this other than wear a condom. Like, if it. We have heard from some women or come elsewhere. Yeah, this bothers me so much. Like, how do I stop the gush from happening? That's my little word for it, too. I call it the gush. Yeah, you can't stop it from happening. You either have to wear a condom or he can't come inside of you. It's just there's no other way. I have heard some women say that they, they're able to sit on the toilet and kind of like pulse their PC muscles. So these are the muscles that you use when you're trying to like cut off the flow of urine. They're basically, they make like a little hammock in your pelvic area. I've heard some women say they can kind of like pulse those gently, like pulse those muscles a few times and that helps it like come out into the toilet a lot faster. I have tried that. It does not work for me personally, but definitely go ahead and try it, see if it works for you. But yeah, going back to the question, the old cup and shuffle, if you don't know what that means, that's a lot of times we just have to like, you put your hand down there or like a ball of Kleenex or a cloth and you're trying to contain it it while you waddle your way to the bathroom to take care of it. So some people do clean up in bed. There is a good amount that comes out when you initially do that pull out so you can have tissues or a cloth in hand to kind of like catch it as you're pulling out. It obviously depends from body to body, like how much actually does come out. You can try laying there for a little while and see. But it's usually like the standing up and the gravity that makes it fully come out. But yeah, most people are just going to have to do cup and shuffle over to the bathroom to take care of it. It's totally normal. It just. That's just what happens. Okay, next question. My husband's cum smells so bad. Is it normal for it to have a weird smell? Do you know the answer to this?

[B]

I'm guessing it's a diet thing, but I have not really experienced smelly cum.

[A]

Okay, so first. Yes, First I want to normalize that our bodily fluids are not meant to smell and taste like candy, roses, vanilla breeze, cool Caribbean. Like, they smell like bodily fluids. They smell like organs. So I want to set people's expectations and I want us to normalize that. Like it's okay for it to not smell and taste like bubble gum, that's totally fine. But if you are noticing a really strong, really unpleasant odor, that can be the sign of something else going on. So it could be like some sort of infection is going on. It could be a sexually transmitted infection. Oftentimes though, with cum smelling bad, it comes down to diet, alcohol or smoking. Those three things can cause your semen to taste pretty bad.

[B]

What about eating pineapple? Don't people talk about that?

[A]

Oh, my God, that myth drives me crazy. No, so it's not this like one to one, like, oh, if you eat sweet things, your vulva is going to taste sweet or your, oh, is it

[B]

for vulva or is it for semen? I thought it was for sea. I thought it makes semen. I don't know.

[A]

Oh, no, you've heard that for men. No, it's. That's always.

[B]

I might just be mixing it.

[A]

That's always for vulvas.

[B]

I mean, you want to just go to town on pineapple all the time.

[A]

Don't, Please don't.

[B]

I mean, pineapple's good.

[A]

Yeah, but don't have an all pineapple diet. And I don't know why it was pineapple. Why not like watermelons or big pineapple?

[B]

Big pineapple knew what they were doing and they planted the seed to keep themselves relevant for a long time. If you want to talk about conspiracies.

[A]

No, it's not a direct, like one to one thing, but it's more of like, overall, are you eating a healthy diet? So if you're eating a ton of processed foods, you're less likely to taste good versus if you're eating like whole foods, less processed, more fruits and vegetables, that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it can be a sign to take a look at your overall health. But this is something that happens pretty frequently, unfortunately, because most of us don't have super healthy diets. A lot of people drink, a lot of people smoke, and those things can cause it to taste bad.

[B]

My hubby says my vagina isn't clean if I only take a bath, he won't go down on me after a bath. Is that weird or normal? Are they, are they meaning like a shower? Like, like, what is, what is the alternative?

[A]

I think, I think that he's saying that he'll go down on her if she takes a shower, but not a bath.

[B]

Which is funny because you're going to be so much more like you're gonna have. You're gonna be submerged in water in the bath. In the shower you are. Your vagina, which faces down, is not getting a lot of water.

[A]

I think it's so weird to me to like be so specific.

[B]

And is this like a bubble bath or no bubble? Like, my goodness, this is an interesting one also.

[A]

How many baths is she taking? Like, is that her primary form of keeping herself clean? I feel like most people at bath is like a very rare occurrence, like with Kids, you take baths, but adults don't really. I can't remember the last time I took a bath.

[B]

I really wish that one or both people from this couple were on with us right now. I would love to dig into this.

[A]

Okay, so first, to answer the question. No, it's not okay for your husband to say. To say. Really? It's not okay for your husband to say anything about the clinic cleanliness of your vagina unless there, like, actually is. Unless you're.

[B]

Unless you're wearing panty liners every day.

[A]

Unless there is an actual issue that he's genuinely worried about. But it sounds like this person like you're taking regular baths. It doesn't sound like there's a basic hygiene issue here. It sounds like the husband is just being a dick.

[B]

Yeah. I hate to break it to the men that are worried about dirty vaginas. The vagina cleans itself. So, yeah, like, to be like, you need to do something extra for your vagina, it actually goes against, like, our evolution. Like, literally is a body part that has evolved to stay clean no matter what.

[A]

Also, it sounds like there might be some confusion here between vagina and vulva. So vagina is the internal part. The vulva is the external part. So like your lips, your clitoris, like the whole external area, like collectively, that's the vulva. So when you're going down on your partner, you're not touching their vagina unless you're sticking your tongue into them, which most people don't do. Like you're. You're licking and kissing all around their vulva.

[B]

The external area.

[A]

Yeah, the external area. So I do think that this couple needs to have a deeper conversation about the way that he talks to her. Like, this is not okay to say, like, your vagina's not clean or I'm only gonna go down on you. You know, if XYZ are in place, like, this just sounds rude and mean. And I would call him out for that and say, you know, if you have a genuine concern about something, that's different, but like, this feels like you're just being mean. Okay, now I wanna cover what we actually need to do as women, as vulva owners to keep ourselves clean. Because this is something that we don't really ever get taught what to do, how to keep ourselves clean. So we've already talked a lot about the fact the vagina is self cleaning. It doesn't need you to clean it. The vulva also does not need very much cleaning either. So there is an entire industry that is built around Making us feel like our genitals are dirty and we need to keep them squeaky clean and tasting like candy apple and bubblegum princess. But you do not need any products whatsoever to clean your vagina. I will say that again. You do not need any products to take care of your keeping your genitals clean. You should actually avoid any sort of product that has any says anything about keeping you fresh, clean, smelling good. These products are actually bad for you. I already talked about the ph balance thing. When you use a soap, a deodorant, a spray, you actually disrupt your vagina's natural ph balance. And ironically, disrupting it in that way can lead to odor, can lead to irritation, can lead to infection. You actually make yourself smell worse by using these stupid products.

[B]

And my. I imagine it might also lead to more discharge, more stuff that occurred. The vagina is working overtime trying to probably clean itself, get it out more,

[A]

get all this shit out of here. So to keep your vulva clean, all that you need to do is wash it with warm water. That is it. So if you have, like, if you're in the shower, trying to direct the shower, you know, down to your vulva, you have to spread your, you know, labia apart, get up in your folds, use your little fingertip and just like, wipe along your folds. You can also use like a soft washcloth, get that, you know, wet and very gently wipe. But do not use soap on your vulva. Do not use soap in your vagina. Do not use soap at all. And even these products, there are so many products that are like, oh, no, no. But this is specifically for the vagina. This is balance. This makes it healthy. You do not need it. Do not use it. Like, they're okay. They're very rare circumstances where maybe there's something going on with your unique body. But I would only do that if your doctor spits specifically prescribes something. But for 99.99 of women, you do not need anything. It's a waste of money. And it's actually making your body less healthy, feel worse and smell worse. So even freaking Summer's Eve or Vagisil or whatever, like all this crap, you do not need that. Just warm water.

[B]

So, in fact, taking a bath might even be the most efficient way to clean your vulva. Because you are submerged in water, you're not needing to, like, splash water on yourself?

[A]

No, not necessarily. Because if you're using bubble bath, bubble bath can actually be bad for your vagina and vulva too.

[B]

So bubble baths, not great. But if it's just a hot water bath. Yeah, that's great.

[A]

Sure. Or you can also use, like, a wet wipe, unscented, organic, like a water wipe, where that's, like, the only ingredient. So no scents, no deodorants, no sprays, no soaps, no nothing. Like, literally, just leave your vagina alone. And she is so much happier that way. Okay. We went down some major, major little detours.

[B]

Rabbit holes.

[A]

Rabbit holes. Rabbit holes. In this episode, we got through less than half of the questions that I thought we were gonna get through.

[B]

We definitely gott.

[A]

Let us know if you want to hear a part two. I mean, I want to do it. I love talking about this stuff. And we have some really great questions, too, about, like, getting pimples on your vagina. Smegma, manscaping, all kinds of stuff. So let us know if you want to hear part two. But I hope that this has been a useful episode. That is all for us today. Thank you so much for listening and join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday. Thursday.