← Pillow Talks
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- [00:00]
A
Okay, but do we talk during sex? On about weather, about dinner, about, like, when our next.
- [00:09]
B
About work, you know? No, I'm. We do not. Dirty talk. Yes, sometimes one of us. I've been encouraging Vanessa to talk a little more. I ask her some more pointed questions.
- [00:20]
A
No, I love talking during sex. I love hearing talking during sex. Sometimes I'm a little like, you're like
- [00:29]
B
a podcast list here. You're like, I just like to have it in my ear.
- [00:39]
A
Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20
- [00:47]
B
years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.
- [00:56]
A
Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today. We are getting a little messy, maybe. Are we a little nosy? We put out a question. Put up a question box on Instagram saying we want to do an ask us anything things style episode. And, like, feel free to be a little nosy. Ask us questions. What do you want to know about us? Like, how do you want to get to know us better? And you guys sent some good ones.
- [01:39]
B
Yeah, I really. You want to. You want to get to the bottom of some stuff.
- [01:44]
A
Some funny ones, some sweet ones, some. A lot of nosy ones.
- [01:48]
B
Some very personal ones.
- [01:49]
A
We gave permission to go ahead and be nosy. I think we like to model vulnerability. We know that our work is asking you to be vulner vulnerable in your relationship. So we like to go first and show you, like, we can be vulnerable too.
- [02:03]
B
Yeah. And sex doesn't have to be big and scary.
- [02:06]
A
So we are gonna be going through your questions and giving you our raw, honest, unfiltered answers. Our team member helped us put together this list. She went through the question box and grabbed the ones that she thought were most interesting, and we took a quick peek to just make sure there wasn't anything untoward. Yeah, really over the top. I don't think we actually deleted any questions. So we're gonna. We're gonna go into it.
- [02:32]
B
Yeah. Let's do it.
- [02:34]
A
Okay. What is your favorite time of day to have sex?
- [02:39]
B
I'm gonna say afternoon.
- [02:41]
A
I am also afternoon.
- [02:44]
B
Yeah. So, like, honestly, I don't know if we've really ever experimented much with, like, late morning. We definitely have had some morning sex here and there. Mostly driven by me. You know, if you were waking up with morning wood type of situation. And it is fun because it's like. It kind of feels like you're just ready to go. And it can be kind of. That can be fun. But, yeah, I agree. Like, you know, Vanessa. Vanessa's experience of that is it's not as nearly as good for her or her orgasms are.
- [03:17]
A
I would love to have morning sex. I think it's a fun way to start your day. It kind of just gives you this pep in your step all throughout the day. Like, oh, yeah, I'm ahead already. Yeah, we did that already. So I, on paper, would love to have morning sex, but my body just does not respond to it very well. Like, sensations feel muted. It just doesn't feel as good. And we're doing the exact same things, but it's just not having the exact same impact on me.
- [03:46]
B
And honestly, for me, it's more of a novelty or an excitement. It's like, oh, like, I have this erection. Let's use it. But if I'm being really honest, my experience is also not nearly as good as I know that it can be later in the day. And, you know, there's also, like, you know, the fact that pretty much no matter what, first thing in the morning, like, I need to pee pretty bad. Like, if I need to pee, like, I cannot last for very long. Like, just added pressure.
- [04:14]
A
It's so weird. I don't understand in that area.
- [04:16]
B
I don't know if other guys are like that. I've noticed I need to, like, I prefer to have an empty bladder when we're having sex. I feel like I'm able to have more control.
- [04:27]
A
I prefer to have a. Not, like, full. Like, I have to pee, but if my bladder is on the more full side, I have noticed sometimes that I feel more sensitive.
- [04:35]
B
Gives you a little boost.
- [04:36]
A
Yeah. Okay. And then evening sex, we actually highly discourage.
- [04:42]
B
Or, like, nighttime.
- [04:43]
A
Yeah, like, late nighttime sex. Most of us have this idea in our heads that we have sex at the very end of the night. It's like you get ready for bed, you crawl into bed together, and then that's the time that you're supposed to have sex. I think that's how we see it most often on TV and in the movies. So it just gives us that vibe. But I think that is the worst time to have sex because you're already tired, you're already wanting, like, wishing you had gotten into bed earlier, wanting to have more sleep than you're going to get. And it's really, really hard to get super excited about having sex in that moment.
- [05:20]
B
Yeah. And on top of that, unless you do have sex, you're basically ensuring that if one person is not on board, then at the very least you have to wait until tomorrow versus, like, you know, there's definitely times where one of us might initiate sex earlier in the day or something and one person is not so into it right then, but then a couple hours hours later, like, your mind might change or you might feel better or we might have a conversation, hey, like, could I do anything to support you in being more open to this later on? You know, maybe early evening or something like that. So it's like there is more opportunities for things to actually work out in your favor if you are initiating respectfully earlier in the day, at night, at the end of the night, you're basically guaranteeing at the very least, this is getting pushed off until tomorrow. And if typically the only time you ever initiate is, then it means, well, I'm almost guaranteeing this is getting pushed off until tomorrow night. At which point, unless it is 100% yes, then it's going to be again another day.
- [06:25]
A
Yeah. So for us, afternoon ends up working out the best. Obviously, we work together, we work from home. So we have this flexibility in our schedule to have it in the afternoon if we want to, which I realize not all people have, but for us, it just feels like it's like a nice break in the day. We both have energy. It doesn't feel like we're running up against the clock or anything like that. It just feels more spacious. More spacious. Time to do it.
- [06:53]
B
Yeah. All right, well, let's take it up a notch. Have you guys ever been to a swingers or sex club? I mean, swingers club. No.
- [07:02]
A
Swingers club.
- [07:03]
B
No, I haven't. At least have you.
- [07:05]
A
We lived close to 1 when we were in Berlin.
- [07:08]
B
Oh, yeah. 1 and 2, I think we were. We were near Zwanglo 2. I have no idea where Zwanglos 1 was. The Google reviews. The Google reviews on Zwanglos were not encouraging, let's put it that way.
- [07:25]
A
Okay. I mean, I think overall what I want to say is we are a whole lot less kinky than I think most people assume.
- [07:33]
B
Well, one, to be super clear, we are not swingers. We're just. We're just not as much as many people out there would love us to be. We're not. We're not swingers. At least not yet.
- [07:45]
A
People hear like, oh, a sex Therapist or they have this sex therapy business.
- [07:49]
B
And I think they must love having sex with everyone.
- [07:51]
A
Yeah, your brains just, like, go to the extreme. They must, like, they must be swingers, and they go to group sex parties all the time, and they're super kinky, and they do all this crazy stuff, and, like, there is zero judgment around that. Like, we have friends that are swingers. We have friends that are super kinky. We love that. We want everybody to explore and, you know, find the vibe that works for them. But just because we run this business doesn't mean that we are having sex with everybody. So. No, we have not. We are not swingers. We are in a monogamous relationship. We have not ever brought another person into our sex life.
- [08:28]
B
However.
- [08:28]
A
However we did. So we lived in Berlin for a couple of years, and in Berlin, music clubs have music club and sex club. The line is murky. Like, they're kind of both.
- [08:44]
B
So it depends on the. It depends on the place, but there are. There's a lot of gray at a lot of the. At a lot of clubs.
- [08:51]
A
So the places that we went to, and that was a heavy partying phase of our life for us. So we did a lot of clubbing. We had a lot of, like, friends that were DJs. It was just. It's a different kind of vibe in Berlin too. Like, we would go during the day, but most of the places that we went to in Berlin had areas of the club that were sex clubs. They called it a dark room that you could just go into and have sex with people. And so sex was deeply entwined in the clubbing scene in Berlin.
- [09:24]
B
Yeah, but we've never. Not. We have never partaken.
- [09:27]
A
Yeah, we did not personally. We have not personally ever partaken. That sounds weird. Partake. We did not partook. Partouth.
- [09:37]
B
We did not partake.
- [09:38]
A
Yeah, the spaces themselves were, like, not places that I wanted to have sex in.
- [09:44]
B
Yeah, I think that that's. I think that's the thing is that, you know, for some, the idea of having sex in a public space or maybe in a. A space that is a little dirtier or grimier that. That there's an excitement to that. And hell, yeah, if that's you, like, more power to you, that's awesome. And, you know, definitely sometimes I. I wish, like, oh, it would be fun and hot if I were into that more, because there would be a lot more possibility for certain, you know, exploring certain things or having fun in certain ways. But at the end of the day, I don't find My. I'm not like, oh, yeah, cool. This, like, kind of dark room. I don't know when it's been cleaned last. I'm like, you know, not that I'm a clean freak by any means, but, you know, I'm just like, you know, I know that we could just go home and have great sex, and it's not. I'm not like, oh, my God, I'm missing out if I don't do it right here, right now.
- [10:39]
A
All right. Xander, do you ever plan on becoming a sex therapist, too?
- [10:44]
B
Not really,
- [10:47]
A
but I have some thoughts, but I'll let you answer it first.
- [10:50]
B
Well, okay. I mean, there. Technically speaking, as of. As of today, there is no governing body on who is and who is not a sex therapist. There's no.
- [10:58]
A
You're a sex therapist?
- [10:59]
B
Yeah. So to be. To be, like, a psychotherapist, a marriage and family therapist, a. Was it csw, like, or, like social worker? Like a social worker or, you know, any. Any other kind of specialist therapist. There are governing bodies where you need to pass a licensing exam and have a certain amount of education before you can call yourself a certain thing. You can put those letters at the
- [11:26]
A
end of your name.
- [11:26]
B
So many hours and yes, many, many hours that really. Devoting your life, a good portion of your life to that craft. Now, for better or for worse, honestly, probably more for worse, when it comes to sex therapy, there is no governing body. There are no letters, you know, like therapists.
- [11:43]
A
Well, there. There is, but it's not a. Not a, like, nationwide governance.
- [11:47]
B
You know, as the sort of everyday, regular guy in our business, I like having the everyday person's perspective. That being said, having worked with Vanessa for many, many, many years now and covering all of these topics, I feel like I am part of the way there. From a knowledge perspective, obviously, I don't have the clinical experience. That's not something that I have, and it's not something that I'm wishing that I could go back to school to get, necessarily. That being said, I definitely have some interest possibly in the future of maybe working with some men, maybe some groups of men, to talk about interesting topics such as what is masculinity in today's day and age and how does that integrate with the way our lives look today versus, you know, the way that our lives have looked way back in history from an evolutionary perspective, like, so who knows?
- [12:45]
A
This is something that I'm actually really curious to ask you, dear listener, about because, like, I see a number of different possibilities here. I do think a lot of People relate to Xander just being a regular dude and saying, like, yeah, I don't have any training in this. I'm not a specialist. I'm not a professional. Because I think sometimes we love knowing that somebody has that professional expertise and education and training. But also sometimes when we hear somebody talk about being a professional, sometimes we can tune them out a little bit.
- [13:18]
B
Or it's like, oh, of course they don't have a problem with that because they're really good at specialists.
- [13:22]
A
But when we hear from a regular person just saying, hey, I've been through this, and here's me being vulnerable and here's what worked for me and what didn't work for me, I think sometimes just on a human to human level, we relate to that more. So I love that we have this balance of, yes, I can tell people I'm a licensed psychotherapist. I have a master's degree. I've spent thousands of hours training. I've spent thousands of hours doing clinical work. And we have somebody who's a regular person, and we've been together for 19 years, and here's what we've learned and what we've been through. So I love that balance. And at the same time, I also think, like, oh, how cool would that be to have a cool couple where we're both have some sort of training or expertise in this? Like, it would take it to another level that we could, you know, talk about things with even more nuance and even more, I don't know, layers and details. So I actually have two questions for you, listener. Like, what do you think would change if Xander was also a therapist or had some sort of certification or training or something like that? Um, what would feel better? What would feel worse for you?
- [14:35]
B
Would we feel more or less legit?
- [14:37]
A
Yeah.
- [14:37]
B
If I was a sex therapist.
- [14:39]
A
Or more or less relatable, too. And then two. I'm also curious to know what you think about Xander leading groups specifically for men. Like he discussed. This is something I will. I'll. I'll let you guys in on a little behind the scenes over here. For years now, I have been trying to convince Xander to lead a men's group. I think that Xander has learned so much in his own life journey. And I'm not saying, like, not from a perspective of, like, Xander has all the answers and he's going to teach other men how to be good men, But I just think that men are desperate for spaces where they can talk openly and vulnerably with other men. As women, we are given Societal permission to be emotional, to have, like, deeply intimate relationships with our female friends. I think we talked about this in a podcast episode a couple weeks ago. So as women, like, I have deeply intimate friendships where I can share, like, anything and everything, and they're so life giving. And I think there's some study that I think we were quoting that something like 50% of men said that they don't have very many friends, or possibly any. Yeah. Or I think 25% of men said they don't have any friends. And 50% said, like, I feel like I don't have very many. I might be getting the numbers right. Wrong, but it was just mind boggling. And I think men are desperate to have these kinds of conversations with men. And I think that you have learned a lot just in life in your sobriety journey too. Like, a lot of really incredible things. I think you could hold space for men in a really nice way. But then that. So that brings up a little bit of discomfort for Xander. I think a little bit of it feels really vulnerable. And maybe it also loops around to this training thing. Like, you're like, well, I'm not a therapist. I don't. You know, I think you're really respectful about it. You're like, I don't want to take on something that I feel like I don't have the training or the education. And so I get all of that. And I would never say, like, let's advertise this as, like, Xander's therapy group since you're not a therapist. Like, that would be unethical. And, you know, so it's not that. But I think that there's a way that you could do something like that and say, like, hey, this is not therapy. I am not a therapist, but I'm still like, creating this group versus maybe if you were a therapist or you had some sort of training, I don't know if that would make you feel more comfortable doing it. It's like, yeah, those two things are intertwined with each other in a really interesting way.
- [17:19]
B
Yeah. So dear listener.
- [17:21]
A
Dear listener, let us know.
- [17:23]
B
I mean, it's just.
- [17:23]
A
Yeah. It reminds me of how long it took me to convince you to do Content with me. Xander started in. I started this business on my own. I brought Xander in to do the operations side. So he was working on the back end, all the logistics. And it took me years to get him to agree to do the content with me because it was the same thing. Like, I'm not a therapist. I don't have the training that you do. Nobody wants to hear from me. I don't have anything valuable to contribute. And it took me many years to convince you that, like, no, that's the whole point. And, like, you do have a value. You do have things that people want to hear. And I feel like it's a kind of similar process here where it's like, I'm caught between. I don't want to push you to do something that you don't feel comfortable doing, but I also, like, I have this vision and I can see it, and I can see the impact that it could have, and I do kind of want to push you to do it. We were literally just talking about this, what, yesterday? Two days ago, I think, during the dog walk. So. Well, we'll just toss it out there. We'll leave it for our listeners. We would honestly, truly would love to hear from you. So you could leave a Spotify comment, you could come DM us on Instagram. We're at. Vanessa and Xander just say, like, you know, wanted to give you feedback on what you said on the podcast.
- [18:42]
B
Yeah. Are you. Are you a man who would want to talk about man stuff with Xander, with me and maybe others?
- [18:47]
A
Or do. Or do you. Do you think. Would you send your husband to go talk to Xander?
- [18:53]
B
No, I'm.
- [18:54]
A
No, don't. No, don't send me. You would have to agree.
- [18:57]
B
Yeah, no, I'm not like, working with people that don't want to be working together. This is guys that want to.
- [19:04]
A
Yeah, I frame that the wrong way. Like, maybe if you're a woman listener who's like, oh, yeah, my husband doesn't listen to the podcast. He doesn't follow you guys. But, like, I think that he would actually, like, love to do something like that. That's what I meant.
- [19:14]
B
Great.
- [19:15]
A
All right, we'll move on. I can see Xander giving me the eyes. He's like, We are in the dog days of summer and so many people are complaining at this time of year about being really hot when you sleep. So if you are a hot sleeper, you have to check out Cozy Earth bamboo sheet set. It's made from viscose from bamboo. So these she are super breathable. They are temperature regulating. They sleep so cool. But they are also really, really soft. Just super cozy. Feel so good against your skin. They make your bed feel ultra luxurious.
- [19:57]
B
Yeah, I'm definitely a hot sleeper and I love these sheets.
- [20:00]
A
Cozy Earth also makes a ton of other products too. They have really great beach towels if you are heading to the summer. Lots of blankets, clothing too. We both have their, like bamboo pajama sets that are super, super cozy. I mean, it's really all in the name. They just make the coziest stuff. Head to cozyearth.com and use our code PILLOW for an exclusive 20 off. That is code PILLOW for an EXCLUSIVE 20 off. And if you see a post purchase survey, please mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here.
- [20:40]
B
Have we ever thought about filming how to real tutorials for some of your guides, Like a real premium service.
- [20:49]
A
We are not ever going to do that. We are not going to start an only fans. We are not going to do video tutorials of ourselves. You are not ever going to see us. You are not ever going to see us having sex. Sorry. Not sorry. It's never gonna happen. We always get it's. We only ever get this question from men and it loops into the next question that we have. How do you handle the creeps in your comments section?
- [21:17]
B
Well, we put their questions in our podcast. No, I'm not. If you ask this question, you're not. This is a very asked in a very respectful way.
- [21:28]
A
I think there's a slight creepy vibe behind it.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah, I mean, you do clearly want to see us.
- [21:32]
A
You want to see us having sex.
- [21:34]
B
And the answer is firmly no.
- [21:38]
A
So the. The creep thing is interesting to me because I like, we absolutely have gotten very creepy comments. This is not a. The way that this one was written was not creepy, like, on the surface at all. We have definitely gotten much creepier comments about my looks, my body, what people want to do to me. Never any creepy comments about you?
- [22:00]
B
Well, no, there was a derogatory comment about my looks compared to your looks. Was like, how is she with this guy?
- [22:08]
A
That wasn't creepy. That was just mean. They're like, you're at least a seven, but he's a three. And of course, that was on Instagram. And of course, when you click through her profile was all like, love, everybody, kindness wins. I was like, what the hell? You just were so brutal to us. But no, that wasn't creepy. So, okay, yes, we do get a fair amount of creepy messages they have. They significantly decreased once Xander started participating in the Enforcer. But it's actually kind of interesting. I think that people being creeps is really just a sign of how much shame and taboo is wrapped up around sex, that people don't feel comfortable with their own desires. It feels like this forbidden, you know, naughty, bad thing. And because we don't have healthy outlets for our sexuality or, like, healthy ways of talking about it, it ends up coming out in this shadowy side of being gross and creepy and, you know, all that. So that's a whole other much longer conversation for a different day.
- [23:24]
B
Well, let's get down to it. How do we handle creeps in the comments?
- [23:27]
A
You get blocked.
- [23:28]
B
We just block them. Yeah, that's that. If you give us a block list, there's a thousands of people.
- [23:34]
A
Yeah, we have our. Our customer service team does a first pass in our DM inbox for us. And so they send messages over to the main inbox for us to answer from, like, you know, genuine questions and people trying to connect, but if there's any. So they see the creepy things. So don't even bother sending us creepy stuff because the employee is going to get it, not us. But they have full permission to just do a quick block. If anything gives them weird vibes. If anything feels off, they just block.
- [24:03]
B
Speaking of weird vibes, let's. Let's actually, we'll go. We'll skip one ahead.
- [24:11]
A
Oh, I was like, then.
- [24:14]
B
Then we'll go back to that one. So, speaking of. Yeah, here. You ruined my transition speak. I thought that. I thought that this number seven was coming up next, and I was like, oh, shoot, there's one above it. Speaking of weird vibes, has Xander ever given you the ick? And what was it for? And vice versa.
- [24:30]
A
You have definitely given me the ick, and I'm sure I've given you the ick. But we. I actually. I don't like the term the ick because I think people use it way too definitively. They use it as, like, oh, somebody gave me the ick, and now there's no coming back from that. Like, you've turned me off and you will never turn me on again.
- [24:51]
B
It's a way to almost, like, push the responsibility onto the other person too. Or it's like, where it's like, you did that to me. You are disgust. Like, you're disgusting. You should know better. And I now, because you've given me the ick, like, I don't have to say to you.
- [25:06]
A
Yeah.
- [25:07]
B
And it's kind of like. It's a way to bypass, like, you having to take responsibility for the fact that. Oh. Huh. Something that this person did is making me feel a certain way. And now I worry that I might need to say, like. Like, I might need to say, hey, I don't love it when you do that. And ick is like, this weird societal excuse that we have for not having to deal with our own issues when it comes to oh, something is kind of turning me off, and it's kind of on me if I want that to change, to say something about it, have a challenging conversation where I might have to admit there might be something a little vain about me.
- [25:48]
A
I also, I don't like the concept of the ick because I think we are all icky. Like, we're all human. We all do things that turn our partner off that are weird. And I actually think that's part of intimacy. That's part of being in a relationship with somebody, is that we can let our guard down with each other and be human around each other. So I don't want to be in a relationship where I am constantly being evaluated. Am I being sexy enough? Am I turning you on enough? Am I avoiding ever doing anything that could possibly turn you off?
- [26:20]
B
Am I following the anti ick checklist to a T at all times?
- [26:25]
A
So, for example, there are certain things that have given me the ick that I have talked to you about. Like, burping is something that.
- [26:31]
B
Oh, but. No, but let's get into all the ones you haven't told me about.
- [26:34]
A
No, I want to walk through this example. Like, burping is something that. It does bother me, and it does turn me off. And so I've had conversations with you saying, like, hey, I. Look, I get. Sometimes burping is just a bodily function, and it's going to come out, but I really would appreciate if you made an effort to go into the other room or to turn your face away instead of doing it in my face. So I smell it. So I have brought stuff like that up with you. But then there are other things that you do where I'm like, yeah, that's weird. But I'm like, that's just you being human, and I don't want to tell you to change that. It's just a moment. Okay, so, for example, you gave me the ick this morning.
- [27:17]
B
Okay.
- [27:19]
A
Oh, can I say it?
- [27:21]
B
Well, I didn't. It was something I ate. That's not my fault.
- [27:25]
A
Oh, no, that's a different fault.
- [27:26]
B
The sausage is fault.
- [27:27]
A
That's a different moment.
- [27:28]
B
Oh, great.
- [27:29]
A
That does give me the.
- [27:29]
B
Oh, all right, let's go.
- [27:30]
A
Xander eats these breakfast sausages that, like, the sausages themselves smell really good. They're like sausages, but on his breath. They're insane. Like, it's just the most.
- [27:42]
B
It's magic in my mouth.
- [27:43]
A
Intense, overpowering, overwhelming smell. And I can, like, smell them so strongly.
- [27:47]
B
They're just chicken sauce.
- [27:48]
A
Yeah, but that. That is another example like, they're good sausages. I don't care enough to tell you, like, you can't ever eat those sausages, or, like, you have to brush your teeth every time you eat the sausages. No, you gave me the ick one.
- [28:02]
B
Okay, let's hear it.
- [28:04]
A
You're peeing, and you're on your phone at the same time, and then you, like, you finish peeing, and you just stand there with your dick in your hand and your phone in your hand for, like, a long time. And your little butt cracks hanging out, too, because you pulled your shorts down. All right, Just, like, a little bit of butt crack.
- [28:23]
B
I think I was there solo. And then you walked in.
- [28:26]
A
I don't know about that.
- [28:27]
B
Yeah, I don't know.
- [28:28]
A
I think you walked in, but, yeah,
- [28:30]
B
so I just got to get all the p out.
- [28:33]
A
You just stand there for a long time on your phone, and I'm like, dude, just put your dick away and go watch your phone somewhere else. But again, it's like, that's just you being human. I use the phone when I'm on the toilet, too, you know? So it's just the thing. I don't really care enough to ask you to stop doing that. So I think we need to normalize the ick. Can we say that?
- [28:57]
B
Yeah. Or it's like, can we move on? Can we move past the ick? I think it's really immature when people are like, he did this one time, and now I can never see him the same. I'm like, you've got a problem internally that you might need to address, or else this is just going to keep happening to you. If someone can do something one time, and I'm not saying, like, yes, maybe someone does a horrible thing where it's like, you see something about their character. Sometimes you can't unsee that. But it's like, if someone does something, oh, they made a weird movement with their arm, and now all of a sudden, I can never see them the same.
- [29:33]
A
Yeah.
- [29:34]
B
Like, huh. What is going on inside of you that is causing you to have this outsized reaction? So, yeah, I think the thing is, yes, we can get the ick. You know, my. The one that jumps to mind for Vanessa is. Is the way that you. When you get a bug bite. Vanessa is so funny. Like, usually I'm more of the complainer in our relationship about, like, oh, this hurts, or this is annoying. Blah, blah, blah. When Vanessa gets a mosquito bite, she will be complaining about it for, like, a week or more.
- [30:08]
A
I think I just get more.
- [30:09]
B
Itching every day. And then she will just start itching it, like, non stop, like, and she'll just stare at me while she's itching. Like, like, while she's, like, deriving this kind of like, sick pleasure out of it. And, like, kind of like hunched over while you do it. And I'm just like, okay, this is not. This is not sexy. The reality, though, is that I moved past that and two minutes later, it's out of my mind.
- [30:37]
A
Has there ever been an ick that you asked me to stop doing something that was giving you the ick so much that you.
- [30:45]
B
I don't think so.
- [30:45]
A
I don't think so, no. Yeah. And I don't think I've done very many for you. I can't really think of anything other than farting. It's just a burp on the other end. Burping and farting.
- [30:56]
B
Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I also wasn't. It wasn't like, regularly like, oh, I'm just, like, letting them rip as I initiate sex with you.
- [31:05]
A
Not as you initiate sex.
- [31:07]
B
Yeah. No. So, no, the ick. Ick is here and then it's gone.
- [31:12]
A
Okay, next question. What is your favorite course you guys
- [31:15]
B
have made favorite in terms of, like, the content inside of it or like, through the course creation process?
- [31:25]
A
You can answer both.
- [31:27]
B
Well, maybe it is both. I don't know. I mean, I would say ultimate sex positions. It was really fun, the creation process and the testing process. We obviously had a lot of sex. We also had a lot of test runs, like, clothed test runs. Just, hey, would this work? Would that work? What would it be like to move from this position to that position? And that was, I feel like, brought us really closer. We laughed a lot. We had a lot of fun. And, you know, it's fun to try that out and be like, oh, what, what would this be like? And you're like, oh, I'm kind of getting a zing talking about that. Like, maybe we should do it in real life. That's kind of fun. So, yeah, that. That was a lot of fun. We put a lot of love went into that in more ways than one. And. And it's. And it's just. It's such a good. It is such a good product. I think that a lot of people underestimate the power of just getting a little more knowledge. So there's a little more out there than just missionary, doggy, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl. Maybe There are a lot more options. And just being aware of some of them, it can be really fun.
- [32:44]
A
Yeah. That was a lot of fun to develop. We also just did an update to adding a bunch of. I think we're up to 17 or 18 new positions with our favorite sex pillow, which we will. We'll have to link to that in the show notes too. We'll link to these guides as well. So that has been super fun. Trying to explore how many different positions that actually work. Not just random, like, oh, yeah, do this weird backbend.
- [33:15]
B
Yeah. Or like put the pillow. Put your elbow on the pillow and then do whatever.
- [33:19]
A
Yeah, it's totally a position where like what actually works. So that was a lot of fun, I think. Yeah. I would say the development of that was my favorite one because it was just so bonding and connecting. And not only that, but we realized in the process of testing it in that way, we were like, oh, we should tell people who are buying this to do the same thing. When you're first trying out these positions, do a fully clothed run so you can get a sense of, okay, here's how I would have to go. Here's where you would have to go. Is our bed the right height? Do we do it this way or that way? So that way, like you get a little bit of the nerves and the awkwardness and the giggles out doing like a practice run. And then also like literally labeling it as, hey, this is just our practice session. We have to come up with a more fun name for that. Practice session isn't very fun. But like, this is our. You're sort of saying to each other your walkthrough.
- [34:10]
B
You know, like in NFL they do like a walkthrough the day before our bone through. Ew.
- [34:16]
A
I don't like that. I don't know. I'm trying to think of something different than walk. But like we explicitly said to each other, other, like, okay, this doesn't, this doesn't count as real sex. This is just us testing and just putting the label on that made the pressure come way down. We felt like we had so much fun with each other and I think you can do the same thing with really anything new you try in the bedroom. Like, this is just practicing. It doesn't count. It's not real sex. We're just practicing and see how it goes and then that way that it helps you build the confidence. So that was the most fun to develop. I think my personal favorite guide are the ultimate foreplay guides because they're just. It is seriously like the most no brainer purchase. Like what you get compared to what the price is, is just out of control. I love the emphasis on female pleasure. We're really working to, like, close the orgasm gap here, make sure women are enjoying themselves more. But I think we took like, a lot of, let's be honest, a lot of people roll their eyes at foreplay. It's just like, oh, yeah, yeah, you got a new foreign play before you have sex.
- [35:21]
B
Or like, oh, that something I had to like, that was like, expected of me, like, before I started having regular intercourse. And you kind of have these associates. Oh, it's like something that my partner wants out of me, but, like, I don't really want to have to do that. Haven't I graduated past that?
- [35:37]
A
Yeah. So we took that and instead show you how to make foreplay the main event. How to give each other the best experience you've ever had, how to absolutely, like, blow each other's minds. And the feedback that we get from people is just. It's so cool. The stories we get of, like, my husband couldn't speak for 10 minutes afterwards. I felt like I was transported to another planet. Like.
- [36:05]
B
Yeah. And also, like, the ways that people feel good about themselves after the amount of power and self confidence and agency that people get out of that that they are not prepared for. They are not prepared. They're like, oh, I used to, like, hate doing this. I used to just skip along. I used to. To do everything in my power to avoid this. And now I can't stop thinking about it. It's like the most fun part. And we do it so much more. And I feel so confident and like, so much more in tune with my body, so much more in tune with my sexuality because I know what to do and I feel good about doing it.
- [36:46]
A
Yeah. I just think those guides are so amazing and I'm in the middle of doing a major update to them. So highly recommend. Scoop them up now. Because our team, in the team meeting, yeah, they were like, you need to increase the price of these.
- [37:02]
B
Yeah. This is insane.
- [37:03]
A
This is crazy. So grab it now because once. Once you get into one of our guides, you get lifetime access to it and you get all the future updates that we do to it totally free. Like, we absolutely could charge because it's basically like a brand new product. So much new stuff I'm adding, but we take care of our people. You will get it for free. So we'll put those links for the foreplay guides, the sex position guide, and our pillow. We'll put those all in the show notes so you can check them all out.
- [37:31]
B
Okay. Well, now we're Onto who honestly initiates more between the two of you. This is an up and down one.
- [37:39]
A
This is a. I just brought this up yesterday, actually. I think so. Currently, I am initiating a lot more than you are. But I'll say for the last. I don't know, maybe the last year or so, you had been initiating a lot more with me. And actually, to the point where you kind of asked me, like, hey, I would love if you initiated more. Like, I want. You know, we're having a lot of sex, and it's great, but, like, I like feeling desired by you. And, yeah, we had kind of gotten into this pattern where you were initiating so frequently that I just. There, like, wasn't even the space for me to initiate because you were on it and ready. But we've made a flip in, you know, just recently.
- [38:25]
B
Yeah, I wanted to give you some space, you know, to work your magic. And things can swing back the other way or not back the other way
- [38:33]
A
necessarily, but, yeah, I mean, it's something that's always ebbing and flowing, and I think it's important to.
- [38:38]
B
It makes it interesting.
- [38:39]
A
Yeah. Make the space for that, too. And we also both appreciate that initiating is very vulnerable, even when you've been. I actually think it gets more vulnerable the longer you've been together because you have a buildup of more times that you've been turned down. And being turned down is really tough. And even in our relationship where we very rarely turn each other down, I can't even remember the last time that happened. But even in that, like, best of the best case scenario, it still feels vulnerable to reach out and say, hey, do you want it? Wanna do it? Wanna do it? So, yeah, I think just making space for the vulnerability and recognizing that there are gonna be seasons that you go through, too. I think when you brought it up with me, it was not from a place of I'm upset or I'm hurt. It was just like, hey, I'd love this more often. And now I'm kind of in the place. Yesterday I was like, yeah, I'd love it if you initiated more often. So it's nice to have those conversations when it's like that versus a. You never initiate with me. We are all about hydration in this household. Xander got me on the drinking water train. One of the things I'm.
- [39:55]
B
That almost sounded really bad.
- [39:58]
A
But we love cure electrolytes in this household, too. They're made with coconut water and pink Himalayan salt. Come in these really convenient little packets that you can just toss in your car. Your purse, your luggage, they are delicious. The flavor, flavors are really great. Peach, mango, berry, pomegranate, watermelon, lemonade, strawberry, kiwi, ginger, turmeric, blood orange, tropical punch. Like you're gonna find something that you love in that list, right? They also have a really great variety pack, so you can try out a bunch of different kinds. There's no added sugar, no artificial sweeteners, no junk that you can't pronounce. You just flip that packet over. You can read what all the ingredients actually are. Xander especially loves them when he goes on his surf trip. Just being able to rehydrate as quickly as possible after hours out in the ocean.
- [40:47]
B
So important.
- [40:48]
A
Cure Hydration is officially in Target now. So you can stock up at Target or you can get 20% off at cure hydration.com with code pillow talks. That's 20% off at curehydration.com with code pillow Talks. I'm officially back on my curly hair journey. I got a curly haircut. I am trying to learn how to embrace my natural, natural texture, how to style my curls. And my Blissy pillowcase has been such a game changer. I had no idea that regular pillowcases actually create a ton of frizz, which is not what you want when you are working with curls. But Blissy silk pillowcases will give you better hair in days. They reduce frizz, breakage, and preserve style and color. They're just so much gentler on your hair. Also much gentler on your your skin too. They can reduce fine lines, wrinkles, and sleep creases, and even help prevent breakouts. They are made with the highest quality, 100% pure mulberry silk and are easily washable, like fully machine washable. They have sold over 3 million pillowcases. They have over a hundred colors, a ton of fun designs and different collections. They've won awards, 13 different awards, been featured in Vogue, Oprah Daily, and Good Morning America. Also make a great gift. I got them for my mom for Christmas and she loved them. Because you're a listener, Blissey is offering 60 nights risk free, plus an additional 30 off when you shop@blissey.com Pillow Pod. That's B L-I S S-Y.com Pillow Pod and use code Pillow Pod to get an additional 30 off your skin and hair. Thank you. Does talking about sex for your job all the time make you want it more or less?
- [42:52]
B
Should we answer on 3? 1, 2, 3. More.
- [42:56]
A
This is such a misconception. How people have.
- [42:59]
B
How would it be? I like I would love to hear from people like, why. Why do you think that it would be less. We hear this so often if we were sex workers, for example, and like, like, our job was to have sex all week, then I could imagine that, oh, when we are off work, then maybe, yeah, I might. I very well might not want to have very much sex outside of work. But the difference is talking about it versus doing it. Like, I would imagine if you. If there's some sport that you love and you are, like, a commentator for it or something, or, you know, I don't know, like, you love tennis or something, and you're, like, talking about tennis, tennis all week, but you're super busy and you don't get to play tennis. I would imagine that as soon as you get off work, you're like, hell, yeah, I want to play tennis. Right. So, yeah, I mean, sex is much more like a sport, a hobby, an activity, something that you gain satisfaction out of. So if you're sitting around talking about something and not able to do it, then, yeah, you want to do the thing that you're talking about.
- [44:04]
A
Yeah. And I think especially for sex, like, the more that we talk about it, the more that we want to do it with each other. That was one of the biggest realizations that we had when Xander started working with me, is now we were talking about sex all day, every day, for the business. But we started realizing that we were having a whole lot more sex. And it took us a while to make that connection, but we realized, I think it's because we're talking about it more often. When you don't talk about sex very often, each individual conversation feels like a lot of pressure.
- [44:41]
B
Yeah.
- [44:41]
A
You oftentimes read it as initiation. Oh, my partner's bringing up sex. I mean, they want to have sex right now, or they're upset with something, our sex life isn't going the way that they want it to be. So each individual conversation takes on so much more weight. But when it is a regular, frequent topic of conversation, each of those individual conversations feel like there's no pressure behind it. It's just. It's just. We're just talking about it the same way we talk about, what do you want to have for dinner? What's the weather going to be like today? When's your doctor's appointment?
- [45:11]
B
And I think that the trick with it is when you talk about it more, it allows you to be able to almost have this. I don't know, I'm making this word up, this term up right now. It allows you to almost. Almost have a lot more, like, micro initiations throughout the day where you're talking about something. You're like, ooh, that actually sounds fun. We should try that later. You're not, like, we need to drop everything right now. We need to get off of this meeting that we're on and go have sex. That does not happen in our life. That's another question that people ask us. That is not what. We run a professional business. This We. We really do here. We. We have a real team, real employees. Like, we're not just, like, sneaking off to have sex. That being said. Yeah. The talking about does allow you to kind of tee up. Oh, that would. We should actually do that more. Or we should try that or like it. Like, you know, honestly, it allows me to be like, oh, hey, that kind of giving me a zing right now. Like, that. That sounds exciting. Like, I would love to have sex with you later. Like, I feel like it just creates way more opportunity for micro initiation or just initiation throughout the day in a positive, fun way. Because I think that a lot of people are thinking about it from the perspective of, like, oh, God, if we have to talk about sex all the time, and sex is a dangerous topic where an initiation is this dangerous minefield where it's like, gotta be perfect and it's gotta be right. Then it's like, we're gonna be, like, talking about it and kind of getting all, like, possibly hot and bothered, but, like, we can't actually initiate it until these certain times. And then, like, oh, God, it's just gonna be. Feel icky all the times. That is not gonna work at all. But I think most people realize, oh, we start talking about it, we start feeling better about, like, oh, it. It is safer to initiate whenever it is okay to say, hey, I would love to have sex with you in a couple of hours once we're back together or we're done for the day. And that doesn't feel like a dangerous topic anymore. More.
- [47:18]
A
Okay, but do we talk during sex? On about weather, about dinner, about, like, when our next.
- [47:27]
B
About work, you know? No, I'm. We do not dirty talk. Yes. Sometimes I've been encouraging Vanessa to talk a little more. I ask her some more pointed questions.
- [47:38]
A
No, no, I. Okay. I love talking during sex. I love hearing talking during sex. Sometimes I'm a little like, you're like a podcast listener.
- [47:49]
B
You're like, yeah, like, I just like to have it in my ear.
- [47:51]
A
Yeah. Sometimes I'm just like, I'm so lost in the sensation that it actually feels hard to put words to it. So it is something that I have historically struggled with and have worked on getting better. I mean, we even made. We have a, an old like dirty talk guide that we made that was inspired by my experiences of learning how to get better at it. I was really, I. I was actually very self conscious about it. When we first started dating. I loved hearing it, but I felt like I don't know what to say and I feel embarrassed and I don't wanna sound stupid. So I overcame that and yeah, it continues to be something that I'm consistently trying to remember. Yes, it's great to enjoy the sensations and get lost in the moment and enjoy the experience, but I also love communicating with you in the moment too. Yeah, I don't like the experience of totally silent sex. So we have music and we're usually talking through.
- [48:47]
B
Yeah, honestly, I do struggle. Not struggle, but like it is far less enjoyable to me the very, very few times. This very barely ever happens to us now. But like, you know, in the past when it was like, you know, traveling somewhere, you're around, you know, you're like around other in someone else's house or something and you're feeling like you need to be quiet. Mm, that's hard. I'm used to us being able to kind of be free with each other.
- [49:12]
A
Are you guys super touchy, touchy kissy kissy behind the scenes?
- [49:16]
B
Scenes behind the scenes? No.
- [49:22]
A
Would you describe us as touchy, touchy kissy kissy?
- [49:24]
B
No, I wouldn't. I am more of a, like, I am more of a physical affection kind of guy than Vanessa is. But that being said, I'm not. Honestly, I. I feel like I've. What I've been finding recently is like my, my physical affection tank is, is very much filled up by the amount of sex that we have when we're having a lot of sex. And in general we do. I'm like, not like, oh God, I need to be touching her all the time. Yeah, I've really found that. But I think that, yeah, we're in a place of like consistency and regularity now that we a much more consistent and much more regular place. And we've been in maybe ever in our relationship and I'm like, yeah, I'm not like, like needing that all the time.
- [50:14]
A
It's so weird. Like I love sex and I need like frequent regular sex to feel connected, but I'm not actually a super touchy person.
- [50:24]
B
Yeah. Like, not like if it were up to you, like I might give you Like a kiss goodnight. And that might.
- [50:30]
A
Kissing is different. Like kissing. We make out every night before bed. That's one of our number one rules to. It's not as an initiation to sex, not as a lead up to sex. It's just to have a make out session for the sake of making out. And I like kissing throughout the day too. But touching, I just. Yeah, it's like not as much of a thing for me or early in our relationship, it was actually like Xander had to ask me for more touch because I just. I don't naturally touch, so I had to be.
- [50:59]
B
It's not your first thought.
- [51:00]
A
Yeah, I had to be very intentional and thoughtful about, like. Okay, Xander really likes touch. Let me like try to touch him more often. So I enjoy touch when it happens, but I just don't think to do it that often naturally. Maybe it's the same. Maybe I'm the same. Like, my tank is just so filled by the amount of sex that we have that I'm not like, I don't, you know, feel that desire. But I like giving hugs and I like holding hands. I'll reach out and like grab your hand and we're like on a dog walk sometimes. But yeah, other than that, I wouldn't say we're super touchy, touchy, kissy kissy.
- [51:32]
B
But we're not. I mean, I feel like we know plenty of other couples, whereas, like you, you don't really ever see them touch. And that's not us.
- [51:40]
A
Yeah, no, no. But I also do not like pda. I'm weird about that, actually. Like, I will not do a big kiss in front of other people. I think it just. It feels kind of rude to other people. Even though I think a lot of people don't care. I don't know. I've got a weird thing around me.
- [51:59]
B
So. Yeah, no, we're in that place of love island right now where this is very topical and it won't be by the time this episode comes out. You are not Jack, who is like, oh, I'm okay with pda.
- [52:09]
A
Yeah, let's make out in front of everyone. Okay. Is it weird that our parents know the intimate details of our sex life since we post it on social media?
- [52:19]
B
I mean, are the details really that intimate? Like what the details that we share are like. I guess that's sort of my pushback is how intimate of details are we really sharing? Like we're not.
- [52:34]
A
That we have sex.
- [52:35]
B
That we have sex. That we have sex and we talk about it more than we talk about advising people how to have great sex. Yeah.
- [52:44]
A
I mean, we've talked. We've, you know, we've shared details.
- [52:47]
B
Yeah, we have. We have. Okay. I think that there was a time in my past where absolutely this would have felt like, oh, my God, there is no way in hell. Part of my sobriety journey in when I got sober was. Was a lot of my dirty laundry was just out there for my family, for Vanessa's family, and that was the situation. And the same in getting help, you have to be able to be messy and talk about what you've been struggling with and what you've been going through. And you can't really stay sober if you keep everything to yourself. But I don't know anyone that is able to successfully do it. He's like, yeah, no, I never told anyone all my deepest, darkest stuff. And it's really hard because that's just shame. Shame is a hell of a drug that'll keep you struggling. And I had to go through that experience of. It felt really fucking uncomfortable. Oh, my God, everybody knows about this. And then it was like, oh, everybody knows about this. And. And they also. They still love me. They still care about me. No one's looking at me differently. I was really lucky that that's how it happened for me. And it was also a great experience of like, okay, yeah, shit can hit the fan, and shit can be messy and vulnerable, and you can come way stronger for it. So for me, I had to have that experience. I don't think everybody needs to have that experience in order to. To start being more vulnerable, because if that were true, that no one would ever be vulnerable until they have these crises. But, yeah, for me, I'm really fortunate. I'm able to look back and be like, God, I'm so lucky that I was able to have that experience, because now I'm like. Compared to that, talking about us having sex a lot doesn't really feel big or scary.
- [54:46]
A
And it's opened up a lot of conversations, like, within my family, that we never would have had before. Like, in my family growing up, we did not talk about sex. It was not an open topic of conversation. But once I pursued this career path, my parents, when I was an adult, started talking to me about sex. And it felt really healing and special to be able to talk with them about it. So I've actually talked with my parents a lot about their sex life, especially during the last few months as my dad has been on his cancer battle. And there have been impacts on that. Talked a lot about my dad's Penis with my mom and with my dad. So I think that's actually a beautiful thing to be able to talk about. Have there been moments where I've felt embarrassed? Have there been moments where I've had a vulnerability hangover? Oh, yeah, Absolutely. Absolutely. It's not. Not easy, but it's valuable. And I think because it's valuable, we continue doing it. Like, I remember when. When our book came out, your mom read the book, like, cover to cover right away, and I.
- [56:01]
B
She was so proud. Yeah.
- [56:02]
A
But I was like, oh, my God. I. Like, we, like. The book talks about us doing butt stuff. There's a whole chapter that opens up.
- [56:11]
B
Toilet paper labia.
- [56:12]
A
Yeah. Like Xander's finger in my butthole. And, you know. Know. God. So that was definitely embarrassing. But again, it just. It's like, whatever. We got it. We gotta do it. We see the benefit of doing it. We see the ways that we're able to, like, make a difference in the world. So that keeps us allowing ourselves to be embarrassed. Okay. How many positions per session do you guys typically do?
- [56:41]
B
That is an interesting question. Mm. It really depends on the type of sex that we're having. I think sometimes it can't just be one position for the most part. Even if it is just one, there's a lot of, like, variations in it. Oh, a lot of variations where technically it's probably more. Probably more like three. So, like, probably in. In theory, if you were watching us, which you won't be, but if you were watching us, you would probably see what looks like, like, you know, maybe at least three per session. I mean, sometimes we'll do more like seven, eight, nine. If we are. If we are taking it slow and spending some more time on it, like, you know, some Saturday afternoon sex.
- [57:31]
A
Yeah, I think I'd say probably three to five. And again, it. It depends on how you count them. But yeah, we're, like, moving our body in a certain way. I don't think we ever have, like, just straight up missionary where nobody moves or. Or changes the angle at all. Like, that never happens. Yeah, we're at least changing the angle like, three to five times, I would say. And then. Yeah, in a. In an instance where we take more time, we might run through 8 to 10 kind of ones. And I would say overall, we probably have maybe 15 to 20 different positions that we, like fairly regularly hit.
- [58:08]
B
Yeah. Now, I do think the one thing I want to call out there is when you say 8 to 10 in a session or like, 15 to 20, 20, we're not necessarily talking about that. Like, that's not the number of times that, like, basically, you know, like, I, you know, penis is entering vagina and then leaving, and then we're completely moving around and then reinserting. Like, if you get ultimate sex positions, and especially once you see what we've done with all the pillow positions, there are a lot of positions that seamlessly can be moved between, you know, both just sort of moving body parts, moving angles, propping yourself up in a certain way where you don't need to, like, take it out and put it back in. I think that's where a lot of people get tripped up on positions. They're like, oh, you know, it's like, it's. It's awkward. Like, okay, we gotta stop and then we kind of gotta move. There's no stimulation happening during that time. Then we gotta get back into the rhythm. Most people don't realize that there are. Are ways to go through a lot of different positions very seamlessly without ever stopping, without changing, you know, changing the vibe or the rhythm. And that's what most people are missing out on. On really great sex, I think.
- [59:21]
A
Yeah, absolutely.
- [59:22]
B
And I will say, I think like the. Well, I know this from experience. We also know this because we have done the research and asked you guys and analyzed the data. The people who use. Who have more positions in their general repertoire, like we just referenced 15 to 20. The more positions people have in their repertoire, the more satisfied they are with their sex life. There's a very clear relationship where people with people who have seven to nine positions that they regularly rotate between are much happier than most people who responded to our surveys. Survey said, you know, we asked like 16, 000 people. It was like the majority of people did. Had two to three in their regular rotation and they're moderately satisfied with their sex life. The people with five to seven and then seven to nine and like nine plus were way happier. Like, to be an eight out of ten people needed to be doing seven or more on a regular basis. And. And I can also definitely say, say I can't really think of any of our peak or best sexual experiences that didn't. That didn't have a number of positions that we cycled through.
- [60:36]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [60:37]
B
Like, I just. Yeah, I can't think of any time I was like, oh, my God, that was the. One of the best sex, like, the best sex of my life or, you know, one of the best times we've done it this year where it was like, just one position.
- [60:50]
A
I really don't think we've like, ever do just one position?
- [60:53]
B
Yeah. Or even if it was like, just. Just what we might say is, like, three. I feel like the best ones are when we take our time and we are going through different. We're going through different things. And that's really the secret to enjoying it more, guys. It's really that easy.
- [61:09]
A
Okay, if you could only do one position for the rest of your lives, what would it be? Should we do it on three?
- [61:16]
B
Oh, okay.
- [61:19]
A
One, Two. Two, three. Missionary.
- [61:22]
B
Pillow. Missionary.
- [61:25]
A
Okay, I'll change mine to the pillow.
- [61:27]
B
Missionary. Well, missionary is kind of a cheat code because there are a lot of seamless variations that can occur where you can stretch missionary into, like, five or six different positions that do that you will experience very differently. So it's kind of a bit of a cheat. Like, if you were to be, like, reverse cowgirl, I was like, there's not a lot of options there. It's basically gonna be almost the same every single time. It's kind of like, oh, what's your favorite food? And you're like, oh, well, potatoes. Because, like, I can have French fries. I can have mashed potatoes. I can have baked potato. You know, like, that's sort of the cheat code. But I would say the pillow with the pillow, because. Which is. Yeah. Vmtherapee.com pillow. If you wanna see what the pillow is, get a little discount on it as well. The pillow opens up even more sort of seamless variations.
- [62:21]
A
Yeah.
- [62:22]
B
I think, which. So it creates more variety from less, I would say.
- [62:29]
A
All right, well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.
- [62:40]
B
Sam.