Pillow Talks Podcast Episode 203: Is This Cheating? Part 2

Release Date: April 10, 2025
Hosts: Vanessa & Xander Marin | QCODE

Introduction to Part 2: Exploring the Nuances of Cheating

In the highly anticipated second part of their series on infidelity, Vanessa and Xander Marin delve deeper into the complex and often gray areas surrounding what constitutes cheating in a relationship. Building on the overwhelming response from Part 1, the couple addresses even more intricate and unconventional scenarios submitted by their listeners.

1. Cheating in the Digital Age: AI-Generated Nudes

Timestamp: [09:21] - [16:50]

Scenario:
A listener discovers that their partner has been using AI software to create nude images of their friends and family from social media profiles, including loved ones such as parents and best friends.

Discussion Highlights:

• Immediate Reaction: Both hosts express shock and horror upon hearing the scenario. Vanessa remarks, “Or your mom nude. Or your dad nude. I would die.”

• Defining Cheating:

  • Xander: Suggests that while it might not fit the traditional definition of cheating, the behavior is "really sketchy and gross," equating it to a severe violation of trust and character.
  • Vanessa: Classifies it as emotional cheating, emphasizing the unethical nature of exploiting loved ones’ images for sexual purposes. She states, “It crosses the line into a kind of emotional cheating because you're actively trying to create something to be turned on by.”

• Emotional Infidelity vs. Physical Infidelity: Both agree that even without physical interaction, the act deeply violates the boundaries of the relationship, making it comparable to traditional forms of cheating.

Notable Quotes:

• Vanessa [09:21]: “It creeps me out a little bit. But they are juicy.”
• Xander [11:10]: “I would call it real sketchy, gross… equally bad, if not worse.”

2. Attending a Sex Club Solo: Boundaries of Cheating

Timestamp: [17:30] - [24:45]

Scenario:
A listener is contemplating attending a sex club alone to observe and understand the environment without engaging or meeting anyone, raising the question of whether attending without informing their partner constitutes cheating.

Discussion Highlights:

• Defining the Act:

  • Xander: Considers it emotional infidelity if the partner is not informed, labeling it as boundary-crossing behavior.
  • Vanessa: Agrees, questioning the lack of transparency and suggesting it indicates a deeper trust issue.

• Importance of Communication: Both emphasize that without prior discussions and agreed-upon boundaries, such actions can lead to misunderstandings and feelings of betrayal.

Notable Quotes:

• Vanessa [18:15]: “I would say this is cheating if you go and don't tell your partner about it.”
• Xander [22:20]: “I would call it emotional infidelity.”

3. Repeated Emotional Infidelity: A Case of Persistent Cheating

Timestamp: [24:45] - [44:05]

Scenario:
A listener recounts how their husband repeatedly engaged in emotional infidelity by kissing another woman, maintaining secretive communication, and making excuses to spend time away under the guise of band-related activities.

Discussion Highlights:

• Identifying Patterns of Cheating:

  • Xander: Labels the husband’s actions as “110% emotional infidelity” and criticizes the lack of genuine attempts to hide the behavior, describing it as “malicious” and “manipulative.”
  • Vanessa: Emphasizes the unethical nature of the actions and highlights the emotional toll on the partner discovering the deceit.

• Self-Doubt and Validation: Addressing the listener’s internal struggle to recognize the cheating, the hosts encourage self-belief and validation of one’s experiences.

Notable Quotes:

• Xander [26:02]: “Oh my God, girl. Okay, yes, 100% he's cheating.”
• Vanessa [27:14]: “You know he’s cheating. … You deserve better.”

4. Justifying Infidelity: Searching for Pleasure Outside the Relationship

Timestamp: [34:00] - [44:05]

Scenario:
A male listener admits to searching the internet for former friends on platforms like OnlyFans to find and view their nude images, justifying it by claiming it doesn’t count as cheating since it didn’t result in physical interaction.

Discussion Highlights:

• Lack of Practicality in Defining Cheating:

  • Xander: Highlights the impracticality of labeling involuntary thoughts as cheating, but acknowledges the unethical nature of creating and using AI-generated nudes.
  • Vanessa: Reinforces that the act is indeed cheating due to the intentional creation and use of intimate images without consent.

• Gender Double Standards:

  • They critique the justification based on differing sexual drive and dismiss the notion of conditional cheating based on one partner’s desires.

Notable Quotes:

• Xander [36:18]: “You just lost all credibility. This is cheating.”
• Vanessa [36:20]: “Yeah, this is cheating.”

5. Hiring a Sex Worker for Prostate Massage: Crossing the Line

Timestamp: [38:26] - [44:05]

Scenario:
A listener asks whether hiring a sex worker specifically for a prostate massage counts as cheating in a committed relationship.

Discussion Highlights:

• Unambiguous Cheating:

  • Both Vanessa and Xander agree without hesitation that hiring a sex worker for any sexual service, including prostate massages, constitutes cheating unless mutually agreed upon within the relationship.

• Unsupported Justifications:

  • They critique attempts to downplay the act by rationalizing reasons related to personal sexual pleasure or physical needs.

Notable Quotes:

• Vanessa [38:26]: “99.9% of couples are going to say hiring a sex worker counts as cheating.”
• Xander [41:03]: “As long as you start and don't finish, it's all good. Is that the bro logic here?”

6. Emotional Cheating Through Online BDSM Engagement

Timestamp: [56:25] - [59:19]

Scenario:
A female listener shares that after feeling undesired post-pregnancy, she engaged in online BDSM conversations with a dom, which reignited her sexual desire separate from her husband, without his knowledge.

Discussion Highlights:

• Recognition of Cheating:

  • Both hosts unequivocally label the behavior as cheating due to the emotional and sexual engagement outside the marriage.

• Underlying Issues:

  • They discuss the importance of addressing unmet sexual desires within the relationship rather than seeking fulfillment externally.
  • Emphasis is placed on the necessity of open communication to prevent such scenarios.

Notable Quotes:

• Vanessa [57:43]: “This is cheating. A thousand percent cheating.”
• Xander [58:41]: “You’re actively hiding it from your partner.”

Conclusion: Strengthening Relationships to Prevent Infidelity

Timestamp: [62:30] - [66:09]

Vanessa and Xander wrap up the episode by emphasizing the importance of proactive relationship maintenance. They introduce their new membership program, Deeper, designed to help couples continuously improve their communication, connection, desire, pleasure, and exploration. The hosts encourage listeners to prioritize their relationships through consistent, manageable steps rather than waiting for crises to address issues like infidelity.

Key Takeaways:

• Open Communication: Regularly discussing boundaries and expectations can prevent misunderstandings about what constitutes cheating.
• Continuous Investment: Relationships require ongoing effort and attention to thrive and maintain intimacy.
• Resource Access: Utilizing tools and programs like Deeper can provide couples with the necessary support to enhance their relationship dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• Vanessa [64:35]: “And that is what Deeper is all about.”
• Xander [65:05]: “Plus you get instant access to our core curriculum library.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Pillow Talks serves as a comprehensive exploration of the evolving definitions of cheating in modern relationships. Through detailed discussions and expert insights, Vanessa and Xander Marin provide listeners with a deeper understanding of emotional and digital infidelity, reinforcing the significance of clear communication and mutual respect in maintaining a healthy partnership.

For more in-depth relationship strategies and ongoing support, subscribe to Pillow Talks and join Vanessa and Xander Marin on their journey to provide the sex education you wished you’d had.