EPISODE 213: What Do Men REALLY Think About…? Part 3 (Doggy Style, Smut + Morning BJs & More!)

Summary

Pillow Talks Podcast Episode 213: What Do Men REALLY Think About…? Part 3 (Doggy Style, Smut + Morning BJs & More!)

Release Date: June 19, 2025

In the third installment of their popular series, Vanessa and Xander Marin delve deeper into the intricate minds of men, exploring a variety of topics that cast light on male perspectives in relationships and intimacy. This episode is a continuation of their ongoing dialogue aimed at fostering understanding and improving communication between partners.

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1. Doggy Style: Perspectives and Observations

The episode kicks off with a candid discussion about what men focus on during the doggy style position. Vanessa raises the question:

Vanessa Marin [08:53]: "What are you looking at during doggy?"

Xander responds openly, sharing his honest thoughts:

Xander Marin [08:56]: "I'm looking at your butthole."

He elaborates, explaining that while maintaining eye contact is challenging in this position, he appreciates observing his partner’s engagement and enjoys the overall experience.

Xander Marin [09:45]: "I think it's hot. Like, I like you naked, and I like all the parts of your naked body."

2. Men’s Perception of Other Women’s Attractiveness

Vanessa probes into how men feel upon seeing women who are perceived as more attractive than their partners.

Vanessa Marin [19:16]: "What do you think when you see a woman who is prettier than me?"

Xander addresses the comparative aspect, emphasizing that long-term relationships transcend superficial comparisons.

Xander Marin [21:04]: "I'm being perfectly honest with you. I don't look at some other woman and go, oh my God, she's so much more beautiful than my wife."

He highlights the importance of emotional connections over physical comparisons, especially after years of building a relationship.

3. Post-Sex Reflections: The Male Reflux Period

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around what men contemplate immediately after sexual activity.

Vanessa Marin [22:50]: "What do men think about right after they finish?"

Xander delves into the physiological and emotional transitions men experience post-orgasm, discussing how initial desires can rapidly shift to contentment.

Xander Marin [24:59]: "It's a weird emotional experience... I feel that after orgasm, my desires don't feel real anymore."

He suggests that this dynamic can lead to awkward moments where men might express desires they don't genuinely intend to pursue post-climax.

4. Home Decor: Do Men Care About How the House is Decorated?

The conversation shifts to domestic life and whether men prioritize home aesthetics.

Vanessa Marin [12:20]: "Home decor. Do they care about how the house is decorated?"

Xander shares his perspective, acknowledging that while men might not prioritize decor as much as their partners, many do appreciate a peaceful and beautiful home environment.

Xander Marin [14:05]: "I think a lot of men feel like they just don't care about it because it doesn't matter what I say now. It's like, the train's off and gone."

He discusses the challenges men face in expressing their preferences and the importance of mutual understanding in decorating shared spaces.

5. Leg Hair: Men’s Views on Female Leg Hair

Vanessa introduces a more personal topic regarding body hair preferences.

Vanessa Marin [47:22]: "What do men really think about leg hair?"

Xander admits he hasn't paid much attention due to his partner's consistent grooming habits but expresses openness to varying preferences.

Xander Marin [48:43]: "If you didn't want to shave your legs, I don't know... I wouldn't be unattracted to you. I genuinely don't know."

He emphasizes the importance of respectful communication and mutual understanding when it comes to personal grooming choices.

6. Hair Styles: Opinions on Messy Buns

The topic of casual hairstyles, specifically messy buns, is explored next.

Vanessa Marin [52:32]: "What do men really think about messy buns?"

Xander shares a genuine appreciation for the messy look, associating it with a relaxed and spontaneous vibe.

Xander Marin [53:02]: "I think I might like the messy one better, honestly."

However, he also acknowledges that men generally focus on the overall appearance rather than specific hairstyle details.

7. Makeup Preferences: Thoughts on Fake Eyelashes

Vanessa questions men's opinions on highly styled makeup, particularly fake eyelashes.

Vanessa Marin [54:30]: "Thick fake eyelashes. Do you know the kind I'm talking about?"

Xander candidly states his preference for minimal to no makeup, expressing that exaggerated makeup often goes unnoticed or unappreciated.

Xander Marin [54:36]: "I don't like that. I don't love that."

He posits that many women use makeup primarily for themselves rather than to appeal to men.

8. Jeans Styles: Wide Leg vs Skinny Jeans

The dialogue moves to fashion choices, specifically jeans styles, and their impact on attraction.

Vanessa Marin [57:32]: "What do men really think about wide leg versus skinny jeans?"

Xander leans towards skinny jeans, noting they accentuate the silhouette but acknowledges it’s a minor preference.

Xander Marin [57:50]: "I think I prefer the skinny ones, but it's, like, a small preference."

He appreciates how certain styles highlight specific features, contributing to overall attractiveness.

9. Thoughts on Aging: Men’s Views on Women Aging

Vanessa brings up the sensitive topic of aging and its perception in relationships.

Vanessa Marin [35:19]: "What do men think about women aging?"

Xander shares that he hasn't encountered conversations about aging negatively and views both him and his partner as aging gracefully together.

Xander Marin [35:31]: "I've never had the experience of any of my friends talking about their partner's aging... it doesn't really note people aging."

He emphasizes a mature perspective where aging is a natural progression that doesn't diminish his attraction or appreciation for his partner.

10. Mental State: Do Men Think About “Nothing”?

Vanessa explores the misconception that men often aren’t thinking deeply.

Vanessa Marin [30:11]: "When men say they aren't thinking about anything, are they actually not thinking about anything?"

Xander clarifies that men are usually focused on specific tasks or activities rather than engaging in deep, abstract thought.

Xander Marin [30:44]: "I'm locked into the activity that I'm doing right now, and I'm not thinking about anything else."

He explains that this focus translates to being present and engaged in the moment, albeit less reflective.

11. Engagement in Relationships: What Keeps Men Invested

One of the pivotal discussions addresses what sustains a man’s interest and commitment in a relationship.

Vanessa Marin [41:17]: "What keeps a man engaged in a relationship?"

Xander emphasizes the significance of feeling seen, understood, and appreciated. He discusses the importance of mutual effort in maintaining intimacy and connection.

Xander Marin [41:17]: "I think men want to be in relationships where they feel seen and understood and appreciated."

He highlights that small gestures and maintaining a vibrant sexual connection play crucial roles in keeping the relationship thriving.

12. Rapid Fire Questions: Additional Insights

Towards the end of the episode, Vanessa and Xander engage in a rapid-fire segment addressing various quick topics:

• Leg Hair: Xander remains open but non-committal, focusing more on overall attraction than specific grooming choices.

• Messy Buns: Xander prefers the messy bun for its relaxed aesthetic.

• Fake Eyelashes: Both agree minimal makeup is preferable, finding exaggerated styles less appealing.

• Jeans Styles: A slight preference for skinny jeans due to their form-fitting nature, though not a significant concern.

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Key Takeaways

• Communication is Crucial: Open and honest dialogues about preferences, whether related to physical appearance or domestic responsibilities, foster mutual understanding and strengthen relationships.

• Appreciation Matters: Feeling valued and appreciated is fundamental for men to remain engaged and committed in a relationship.

• Aging Gracefully: Both partners view aging as a natural and beautiful progression, devoid of societal pressures that often undermine self-esteem.

• Personal Grooming Preferences: Respecting each other's grooming choices and expressing preferences respectfully ensures both partners feel autonomous and respected.

• Intimacy Beyond the Physical: Maintaining a vibrant and communicative sexual relationship is key to sustaining long-term intimacy and connection.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Pillow Talks, Vanessa and Xander Marin provide valuable insights into the male psyche, debunking stereotypes and encouraging couples to engage in meaningful conversations. By addressing topics ranging from intimate physical preferences to broader relationship dynamics, they offer a comprehensive guide for enhancing mutual understanding and fostering a deeper connection.

Listeners are encouraged to reflect on these discussions and apply the insights to their own relationships, paving the way for healthier, more fulfilling partnerships.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisement and promotional segments to focus solely on the episode's core discussions and insights.

Transcript

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, let's go in. Hot and heavy. What are you looking at during doggy? What keeps a man engaged in a relationship? Home decor. Do they care about how the house is decorated? What do you think when you see a woman who is prettier than me? Okay, what do men think about right after they finish? Hello and wel. Welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

[Xander Marin]

Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

[Vanessa Marin]

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. We are back with round three of Xander speaking for all men.

[Xander Marin]

My favorite thing, favorite thing to do. I feel like, you know, I'm as good as any to be the representative for all men. Right? That's sarcasm, by the way.

[Vanessa Marin]

What do men really think about sarcasm? Now, we always get questions in our community from people asking, like, what do men really think about this? What do women really think about this? And so it, you know, obviously just feels like a fun podcast topic to dive into. So we've done two previous editions. We had episode 56. So we covered things like vulvas and emotional intimacy. Then we had episode 69. We talked about lingerie, boobs, money, queefing, a lot of hot topics.

[Xander Marin]

We've hit a lot of. We've covered a lot of angles, but.

[Vanessa Marin]

We haven't talked about it in a long time because this is episode 213.

[Xander Marin]

Wow.

[Vanessa Marin]

Which is also my birthday episode.

[Xander Marin]

Wow.

[Vanessa Marin]

So we haven't talked about this yet.

[Xander Marin]

It's not actually Vanessa's birthday for a long time, though.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, no. 2. 13.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I know, I know. That is the. Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

The initials of your number of the episode. The initials.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. The date format.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so we're. We are back today, and, boy, did we get some interesting questions when we posted this on Instagram.

[Xander Marin]

We always do.

[Vanessa Marin]

Also, I have to say, a lot of. A lot of men misunderstood the question, so we. I wrote like, we're doing an episode called what Do Men Really Think About? You know, fill in the blank. We're going to ask Xander to give us his voice. Raw, unfiltered opinions. So let us know in the question box, what are some topics that you're wondering about? But a lot of men read it as us asking, what do men really think?

[Xander Marin]

What do you actually think about all day long?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. And there were two super common responses. Let me see if you can guess what they are.

[Xander Marin]

Like, boobs or sex?

[Vanessa Marin]

Sex was one. There was a lot of boobs. That might have been number three. What do you think number two was?

[Xander Marin]

Roman Empire.

[Vanessa Marin]

That was there a lot. But no, it wasn't as popular.

[Xander Marin]

Hmm. I don't know. Food?

[Vanessa Marin]

Nothing.

[Xander Marin]

Oh.

[Vanessa Marin]

Which we do don't answer anything about that. Cause we actually do have a question about that later.

[Xander Marin]

I think that's a good response.

[Vanessa Marin]

Nothing. Just straight up nothing. Okay. So before we get into it, though, we do always like to give the disclaimer. Everybody is unique and different. Of course, Xander is not, like, literally speaking for every single man. But we do like doing these episodes because we think they're great conversation openers. Like, it's a super fun one to listen to with your partner. You can pause after we ask. Like, after I ask every question. And ask your partner first. Like, okay, what would you say? How would you respond to this one? And then, like, come back and listen to Xander's response. So it's a great conversation opener.

[Xander Marin]

So, yeah, maybe a more accurate title to this episode would be, what does One Guy Think about this? Brilliant insight into a male's mind and thinking on topics that women think might be interested in.

[Vanessa Marin]

That doesn't sound like an episode.

[Xander Marin]

Like, yeah, our podcast team would not allow us to use that title. So we have our current title, which.

[Vanessa Marin]

Is what Two Men Think about this. Okay. And also, I want to give you permission to be fully honest here.

[Xander Marin]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Because sometimes we get feedback and people are like, oh, Xander's just saying that because you're there. Like, he doesn't want to hurt your feelings. Or, like, be honest. So I will say for the next hour, however long we record for, I will not. I promise you that I will not get mad or upset or hurt about anything you say for the next hour. This is like, free zone.

[Xander Marin]

Okay. This is like. This is like our version of the hall pass. This is my hour long hall pass. But I'm with you the whole time.

[Vanessa Marin]

What happens in the recording studio stays in the recording studio.

[Xander Marin]

Wow. Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

Because I want you to feel like you can really give the raw, unfiltered.

[Xander Marin]

I'm kind of scared to find out what the questions we have now because I don't know. I don't have any. I don't have my iPad in front of me with our outline. I have been.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, no, you haven't seen any of.

[Xander Marin]

The questions come into this blind, which is where I operate best? No, I don't really. I don't really. I like preparation usually, but not today. Let's go. Hey, Vanessa. I'm such a fan of our next podcast sponsor that I brought them with me. I took a valuable space in my luggage on my surf trip to Mexico to bring this along with me.

[Vanessa Marin]

Wow, I didn't know that.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I brought. I brought a package of Good Wipes premium butt wipes with me in my luggage because my butt can't live without them.

[Vanessa Marin]

They really are incredible. They are such good wipes. They're infused with sea soothing botanicals like aloe, vitamin E and chamomile. They smell amazing. You like the cedar scent? I am partial to the rose water one.

[Xander Marin]

But what I very, very stereotypically male and female scent choices there.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh God. But what I really like about these is that they're naturally scented and hypoallergenic. So no like harsh ingredients, anything like that. They're also super soft and free from any harsh chemicals. Parabens, dyes, none of that stuff. We good wipes over here and we know that you are going to love them as well. If you want to upgrade your restroom ritual, you can grab Good wipes at Target, Walmart, Kroger and most local grocery stores. And as a special offer for Pillow Talks listeners, Good Wipes is giving you your first pack for free. So you can buy any package, text them your receipt and get reimbursed almost immediately. For more details, head to goodwipes.com pillow talks again, that's goodwipes.com pillow talks to snag a free free pack of Good Wipes. A few years back I found out that I am One of the 30% of Americans who grind their teeth at night. I had no clue, but my dentist had to point it out to me because I was really like wearing down the enamel on my teeth and he was like, you have to wear a night guard. Otherwise like I'm catching this at the beginning stages. But this could get really bad if you don't wear a night guard. And that's why I'm so excited to tell you about our podcast sponsor, Remy, because they make custom fit night guards that are 80% less than what you'd pay for at the dentist and way easier. So here's how the process works. You get an impression kit sent straight to your door. They give you very easy step by step instructions to get the perfect impression. You send your kit off and then they ship you your custom fit night guard made in the US In Vegas. You get it back, you start protecting your teeth that very night. It's really so simple and easy. And the best part is that Remy is so confident you'll get a perfect fit that they offer a 45 night perfect fit guarantee or your money back. No waiting rooms, no overpriced bills. Just a better way to protect your teeth while you sleep. Try Remy risk [e-mail] pillow and use code PILLOW to get up to 50% off your night guard at checkout. That's 50% off at shop r e m I.com pillow with code PILLOW. Thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this episode. Okay, let's go in hot and heavy. What are you looking at during doggy?

[Xander Marin]

I'm looking at your butthole.

[Vanessa Marin]

Great.

[Xander Marin]

No, at times I look at it. No, you know what? Sorry. I was thinking. I was thinking, like, in reverse cowgirl, like, I'm looking at, like, your. Your asshole. And also, like, the view of you going up and down on me, which is a wonderful view. In doggy style. You don't quite get the same, like, in and out type of view that you do in reverse cowgirl. No, actually in. No, in doggy. Like, in doggy, you have to really specifically look for the butthole. You got to look down at it, and it's kind of like, you know, if you're. Let's say you're spending a couple minutes in that position, it's kind of weird to be like. Have your. To be, like, looking down the whole time. I'm definitely gonna look at it. Okay, I'm gonna look at it. Maybe I'll touch it.

[Vanessa Marin]

But why are you gonna look at it? Because I think this is something that makes a lot of women nervous. Why are you looking at it?

[Xander Marin]

I think it's hot. Like, I like you naked, and I like all the parts of your naked body.

[Vanessa Marin]

Even the butthole. I think most women would say, like, that's, like, my grossest part.

[Xander Marin]

I don't think so.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. We also.

[Xander Marin]

I mean, if I didn't. Okay, let's put it this way. If I was not. If it didn't. If it grossed me out, I wouldn't look at it. It's very easy to not look at it during. During doggy because, like, your butt cheeks aren't spread open during doggy style, and it's, like, not right in front of your face. Like, it's kind of down below. So though, I mean, I'm kind of looking at you. I'm Looking at, like, the whole situation, I have a great view of the situation in front of me. So. Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. We also had questions about, like, what about hairy, like, hairy buttholes or the color of the butthole?

[Xander Marin]

I mean, I don't. All I know is the butthole that I have in front of me.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, you've seen other buttholes.

[Xander Marin]

It's been a while. I mean, it's been a while. And honestly, like, I've. I've only.

[Vanessa Marin]

The other buttholes weren't as memorable as mine.

[Xander Marin]

I've only had, like, consistent sex with a couple of. With like, I haven't had regular sex with very many people in my lifetime, to be perfectly honest. And most of the sort of, like, one night stands were definitely, like, not doing doggy. And if we were, it was probably dark, you know, like, wasn't the type of situation where it's like, okay, I'm taking my, you know, I'm like, I'm taking a look at everything.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. But like, in general, do you think that men worry about hair or color when it comes to buttholes?

[Xander Marin]

I don't think so. It's just. It's your butt. Like, my butt's pretty hairy. I don't know what color my butthole is.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, let's go in a totally different direction.

[Xander Marin]

Wait, wait. But also, I think that. I mean, I don't think. I think most women's buttholes aren't particularly hairy. That's more of a.

[Vanessa Marin]

Everybody has hair in the butthole.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, Yeah. I think male buttholes tend to be a lot hairier.

[Vanessa Marin]

There's like, hair all around too. Is there, like, on your butt? I mean, you. Yeah, you have. You're not even a particularly hairy person, but you have hair on your butt.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know if I ever really noticed hair on your butt.

[Vanessa Marin]

No, I don't have hair on my butt.

[Xander Marin]

That's good. That's what I'm saying. But that's what I'm saying is, like, I don't think. I think most women in general just don't have a lot of hair on their butt. So I don't know. It's not something I've ever considered.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, let's go in a totally different direction. Home decor. Do they care about how the house is decorated?

[Xander Marin]

I mean, I think that a lot of men don't care that much. I think this is a matter of, like, relativity of like, of like, relative stuff. Like, I think that a lot of people or women get the idea that men don't care about home decor. At all. Because many men, I think, care less about home decor than their female partner does. And so it can feel like, oh, God, he just doesn't care at all. But I think, like, when home decor is done nice, it's, like, really nice to have, like, a peaceful, beautiful home. That where you like it? What I wonder, I mean, I don't know. This is hard for me to say is you and I have pretty similar tastes when it comes to home decorations. And we both really love the way that our home is decorated. I think we both really like it. It feels like, really like our home. It feels really peaceful. I love being in it. So for me, I feel like, yeah, I care about it a lot because it brings me a lot of happiness and peace and joy. You know, I think that. I do think that there's probably a lot of men who are not on the same page with their female partner about home decor kind of tastes or styles or choices, but they don't really know how talk about it. And I think also on the flip side, I think a lot of women don't really take men's home decor preferences very seriously. They go, oh, that's just like. That's ridiculous. I think there's the experience of a lot of men's preferences just kind of getting like, nah, we're just not gonna listen to that, or we're not gonna care about that.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think the stereotype is, if we listen to you, then there would be a lot of, like, brown leather sofas and sports memorabilia.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. And I think that. Yeah, I think probably a lot of men's experience is like, you know, they might be wanting a certain type of piece of furniture or, like, one design choice or something. And instead of being listened to, I think a lot of people have the experience of, like, oh, well, that can't work because of xyz. Oh, well, we've chosen this theme for the house and blah, blah, blah. So it's like. It's not even. It's not even like. It's like they. I think a lot of men feel like, oh, well, I never even stood a chance because it was already this plan that I didn't really sign off on. And my. My preference doesn't fit in this plan. And so I think a lot of. So I think that's where a lot of this idea that, oh, men just don't care about it come from because they go, it doesn't matter what I say now. It's like, the. The train's off and go in. The train's Left the station.

[Vanessa Marin]

So it's that they've given up. It's not that they don't care.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I think so.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, you're not gonna let me have my cool stuff?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. I mean, that being said, I do think that there is the stereotype, which is probably often, more often than not true, of, like, you know, say, like, a man gets a divorce or breaks up or whatever, and moves into their own place and then, like, doesn't do shit with the house.

[Vanessa Marin]

He's, like, sitting on the floor. The TV is, like, on the floor. Everything's on the floor. There's, like, one little folding table and folding chair.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I think. Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Let me ask you this, because I feel like, as a woman, I have been socialized to care about the way my house looks, that when people walk into a house, into our house, they're primarily thinking that I did this. So, like, I've really been trained to care about this.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Do you think you've been trained to care about or, like, when people walk into our house?

[Xander Marin]

The answer is no. Okay, I'm just gonna cut you off.

[Vanessa Marin]

Are they like, oh, wow, Xander did such a good job with this?

[Xander Marin]

No, they definitely don't. And also, I've never had the experience of even considering, like, oh, what is this person gonna think about xyz? Like, I think you have the. I observe you having the experience of, like, oh, all of this has to be cleaned or this has to be put away, because so and so maybe is coming over later today. And, you know, it's just, you know, really intricately thought through. Like, oh, well, what are they going to think about? What are they going to see when they see this? And then how is that going to reflect on me? Yeah, I've never had that experience. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's. I mean, I have the experience of going to someone's house all the time and, like, something is dirty or the. The dishes are in the sink. And I. I not. I'm like, oh, I'm in somebody else's house. Of course I expect it to not be perfect all the time. My house isn't perfect all the time. Why would I expect somebody else's house not to be perfect all the time? To me, it's just like, oh, this is. This looks like real life to me. And I think for you, it feels like. No, real life for me is my house. Everything is perfect.

[Vanessa Marin]

That. Yeah. I mean, I want to separate, like, what I feel like I've been taught to think versus what I actually think. But Yeah, I do feel like I've been socialized to believe my house should look like nobody lives there when people.

[Xander Marin]

Walk in, which is ridiculous because two people and two dogs that are pretty dirty live there. But. But, yeah, I. Honestly, for me, yeah, I don't care about that as much as you. We've been together for, what, going on 18 years now, and I've realized, hey, like, it's. This is something that matters to you, so it should matter to me. So it doesn't matter to me personally, but I know it matters to you. Your happiness is important to me, so I make an effort. You know, I'm sure that in the first couple of years of our relationship, I was probably not very cool about this. And, you know, you'd be like, oh, my God, we ought to clean up all. I'd be like, oh, that's ridiculous. They don't care about that. They're not going to care about that. And that probably felt really dismissive to you. And I think a lot of people are in relationships where that happens, you know, one year in, 10 years, in 20 years in. And, you know, it just feels like this doesn't care at all.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

And, yeah, for me, it's more, you know, it's. It's kind of like a happy wife, happy life type of situation where I go, hey, I would much rather you feel good about this. So, of. So, of course I'm gonna. I'm gonna jump in and make sure that things are clean. I don't wait for you to ask me to do that when I know people are coming over. I tidy up because I know it's important to you.

[Vanessa Marin]

I just want to jump in with the happy wife, happy life thing.

[Xander Marin]

You said this was a safe space.

[Vanessa Marin]

No, no, I have some. I just have, like. I feel like that can be a simplistic phrase. I mean, obviously, like, it is, but you and I both try to take the approach of if something matters to one of us, then it matters to both of us.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I say happy wife, happy life. I think for you it's happy husband, happy life. Right? Like, yeah, like, for you, your life is better when I'm happy, and for me, my life is better when you are happy.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Okay. Now here's when you can really get honest.

[Xander Marin]

Great.

[Vanessa Marin]

What do you think when you see a woman who is prettier than me? That's.

[Xander Marin]

I. That's such a. It's such a. Like, I want to push back against the phrasing of the question, because how this person asked because it, like, it implies like a, a scale of like. I feel like it reduces beauty in a way of like, oh, there's just objective. Like this person is better looking than that person. We've been together for so long that your, like, to, your beauty to me is so much more than just like physical or superficial. So I don't really, I. I'm being perfectly honest with you. Like, I don't look at some other woman and go, oh my God, she's so much more beautiful than my wife. Okay, yeah, maybe like if I didn't know you at all and it was like lining up you, you and somebody else and it's like, who do you think is physically more attractive? Like, yes, maybe I would probably say, okay, yeah, this person. To me, this person is more physically attractive. But to me there's so many things that are extremely attractive to me about you that are not visible from the outside. And after 18 years together, like all those things, I can't strip those things out of the equation. So I know it sounds like I'm dodging the question, but I don't really, I don't ever have the experience of seeing someone. I'm like, oh my God, that I wish I was with her because she's so much more beautiful.

[Vanessa Marin]

So are you saying. I think what it sounds like to me is the comparison part of it just isn't in the equation for you. So you might notice a woman and think like, she's really hot or she's really beautiful, but you're not adding that she's hotter than Vanessa or she's more beautiful than Vanessa.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. And I, Yeah, when I see someone that's really physically attractive, I usually go, wow, that woman is really physically attractive. Like that. That's cool. Like that? Yeah, she's attractive.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, I have a follow up question about this. Somebody else asked. When you see a hot woman, do you immediately think about what sex would be like with her?

[Xander Marin]

Sometimes. But not like, not, not like, not really. Not like in gory detail. Well, like, and like, detail like what are we talking about seeing? Like, just like I got a glimpse of them on the street or like.

[Vanessa Marin]

A woman walking down the street. Are you picturing like, what it would be like to have sex with her?

[Xander Marin]

I don't know. That's a no. No. I would say no, Seymour. I mean, I think it's. I feel like we all probably band women, whatever. We all think about what sex would be like with various people at certain points in time. But it's not like for me, it's not like a fully formed thought. Like, let me think, what would it be like? And we're doing this and then we're doing that. I think it's. It's more of just like, oh, like that person is physically attractive. And then. Yeah, it's like, probably sometimes I think about sex, but not like in a. Not like in a fully formed fantasy type of way.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Interesting. Okay. What do men think about right after they finish?

[Xander Marin]

Often it's probably just like, oh, wow, that was great. That was great. I mean, I think what is funny, the. The funny thing to try to describe about the male experience with is the. Is like what the. What the refractory period is like and what that kind of, like, does to you. Because, you know, at least for me, it's like I have the experience of, like, as I'm getting closer and closer to orgasm, I'm like, really. I'm really into it. I'm, like, thinking about all kinds of things like, oh, God, this would be so hot, or that would be so hot or whatever. And like, oh, I want this, I want that. Like, I want more, more, more, whatever. And then you have an orgasm. And then, you know, I think, like, you're getting basically, like, a rush of, like, oxytocin and prolactin. And, you know, that kind of like, it's this weird experience because you instant. You almost instantaneously or over the course of your orgasm, you go from like, I want more, more, more. I want this, I want that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, yeah, like, let's keep going forever to. To like, oh, my God, I'm so satisfied. And I don't actually want any of those things. It's like, because it's like you have this. You know, you've made you. You're kind of like, almost trying to, oh, yeah, I want to do this. Oh, yeah, I want that so bad. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm like, so I'm 120% satisfied. And. And so weird that I was thinking about X, Y, and Z. Like, that doesn't actually sound good anymore. Like, even if you're like, oh, yeah, I want to go all night. Like, oh, I want to keep, like, you know, I'll have thoughts like, oh, yeah, like, I want to do this again right afterwards. And it's like, oh, no, I don't want to do that again right afterwards. It's just so. It's a weird emotional experience, which I think a lot. I'm pretty sure a lot. Slash all of men can relate with of being like, oh my God, I want this so bad or I want this or that or whatever.

[Vanessa Marin]

Then you're just done.

[Xander Marin]

And then you're just done.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

And you're like, oh wait, I don't want that. But it's like you I've learned to trust. Oh yeah, I will want that again soon, just not right now. And, and I think that maybe a lot of men get themselves into a weird pickle about this because maybe they're like saying things during sex like, oh, I want this, I want. Like you're saying things and then all of a sudden you feel like, oh wait, oh God, why did I say that? I don't want that. I think it's just, it's like this is a simple con have with your partner, but like, hey, this is, and honestly this is like a vulnerable, like emotional type of conversation to have with your partner. Hey, this is what this is like for me when I have an orgasm. It's a kind of funny and weird experience of like I have these very strong urges or desires or whatever in the lead up to orgasm. And as soon as I have the orgasm it's like I feel very differently about those things. It's not like, ew, gross, I didn't want to do that or I didn't want to say that. It's just like, wow, that felt so real in the moment. Like that desire and that desire now doesn't like that doesn't feel real to me anymore. It felt real in that moment, but it doesn't now.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, let's be honest. We have all asked Chat GPT about a funky symptom, right? Like my eye is kind of swollen and itchy. I've got this funky looking rash somewhere. Maybe like a tight pain in your neck or just this cold that won't go away.

[Xander Marin]

Away.

[Vanessa Marin]

We've all gone down that rabbit hole, but it's time to get the help and care that you really need and deserve.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

Yeah, that's the thing that always trips me up is in the past, you know, like I'm always like looking for a highly rated doctor and then you call and not only do they not take your insurance, but they also don't have any appointments for six months or they're not even taking clients. I'm like why did I just waste all this time researching and then getting excited about this place? And then they won't even take take me.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

This week I am wearing our podcast sponsor Cozy Earth's T shirt. I love this thing. It is so comfortable.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's the all day tee.

[Xander Marin]

It's the all day tee. Seriously. So not only it looks good, it's comfortable. It is soft as hell.

[Vanessa Marin]

And you put that on by coincidence? You didn't know? Today we were recording an ad for our Cozy Earth. We pulled this open and Xander was like, oh wait, I'm like literally wearing my Cozy Earth T shirt right now. If you haven't heard of Cozy Earth before, they make the softest, most luxurious sheets, towels and clothing. We are obsessed. We have all the Cozy Earth things in our house and we absolutely love them. And they are especially cozy during those hot summer months. If you're a hot sleeper. Their sheets are so breathable and temperature regulating. It really makes a big difference. And you can try Cozy Earth completely risk free. They have 100 night sleep trial. You can try them during the hottest nights of the year. If you are not in love, return them hassle free. And they also have a 10 year warranty on all of their bedding products. That's a decade of cool quality sleep. Upgrade your summer. Go to cozyearth.com and use code pillow talks for 40% off their best selling temperature regulating sheets, apparel and more. Trust us, you will feel the difference. Xander's feeling it right now. You'll feel the difference that very first night in Sheets Sleep Cooler Lounge Lighter Stay Cozy. Okay, so let's go back to the topic of not men not thinking. Someone wrote, when men say they aren't thinking about anything, are they actually not thinking about anything?

[Xander Marin]

I don't think it's really that you're not thinking about anything. I think that. Okay, so often when you. I think that when men are saying, I'm not thinking about anything, really, what they're saying is, I am thinking about something. I'm. I am locked into the activity that I'm doing right now, and I'm not thinking about anything else. Like, I am doing whatever. I am fixing this. I'm putting the thing together. I'm doing this project for work. I am mowing the lawn, whatever the it is, and I am thinking about that. I am not thinking about anything else. I'm thinking about the task at hand.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

So, yeah, I think that also, though, like, often I'm just kind of doing things here to there. I'm not thinking about very much beyond. Okay, I gotta go do this. Okay, now I'm gonna go do this. I'm gonna grab this in this room and take it into that room. I do go. Yeah, I. I don't. I definitely used to be more of a ruminator. I. Much less so now. And, yeah, I don't. Yeah, I don't think about a lot of extra stuff day in and day out. I'm a lot happier that way.

[Vanessa Marin]

Are there times when you're just, like, really not thinking about anything? There's just nothing in your mind?

[Xander Marin]

If I'm not, like, I would say that's unlikely. If I'm not doing anything, if I'm doing things, then I'm not thinking about very much beyond the task of what I'm doing.

[Vanessa Marin]

I also think this question loops back into mental load, which we just did a podcast episode about a few ones back. So scroll back a little bit if you haven't heard us talk about mental load. But I think mental load imbalances can really be at the root of why so many women feel like they're just thinking, thinking, thinking all day long. And it feels like their men are just kind of like, going through life just chilling, just being there. Okay, I'm gonna ask you this one with no context or explanation. I just wanna see what you do with it. What do men think about women going crazy over Pedro Pascal?

[Xander Marin]

Wait, who's Pedro Pascal?

[Vanessa Marin]

Also, I said Pedro. That was so weird. Pedro. Pedro.

[Xander Marin]

Who's Pedro Pascal from Last of Us.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yes. You knew it. Great. Good job. The ender's not very Good.

[Xander Marin]

I won't give any spoilers.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know. Women are going crazy over him.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know what to think. You gotta find another man. I didn't know about this.

[Vanessa Marin]

Why do you think? Yeah, women are really into him.

[Xander Marin]

Cool. I mean, yeah, he's a good looking dude, I guess.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

No thoughts?

[Xander Marin]

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, this is something that just wasn't on my radar.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

I mean, in general, I guess. I mean, I. But I feel like the question can still be answered. Like there's always someone that are like, oh, women are so into whomever. Right. And for me, I've never really felt like any kind of ego or jealousy or like, oh, my God, I need to be more like him. I mean, I. I think that if you're. If you are confident and secure in your relationship, I don't really see. I don't really see that as any kind of threat.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, let me tell you a little bit more about why women are into him and maybe we'll see if this brings up anything.

[Xander Marin]

Can we spark some jealousy in Xander?

[Vanessa Marin]

I just googled why do women like Pedro Pesco?

[Xander Marin]

Great.

[Vanessa Marin]

Here's what Google says. Modern masculinity. His portrayal of characters often highlights traits like vulnerability and emotional intelligence which deviate from traditional masculine stereotypes. Trustworthiness and reliability. His characters often project an image of strength and reliability while also demonstrating compassion and understanding. Physical attractiveness. Obviously genuine personality. He's known for his humble demeanor, which further enhances his appeal.

[Xander Marin]

Were we saying in the characters that he plays or in real life?

[Vanessa Marin]

Both. And Latinx?

[Xander Marin]

Because he's playing. Because he's playing a character that like, whatever character he's playing, he's playing the character that was written for him, not himself.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think a lot of people think that he has a lot of those traits himself, that he is.

[Xander Marin]

Which is why they cast him in these roles. Because it's like, oh, this guy knows how to embody that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Okay. Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, I'm curious what you. Let's talk about, like, the modern masculinity. Because he is known to be somebody who's like, more thoughtful, more sensitive. Not that, just like, you know, know, silent. What is it? Oh, my God.

[Xander Marin]

Strong silence. It's a. I mean, it's a good lesson for men. Like, yes, women are attracted to men that are portraying some amount of emotional vulnerability. I think it's a good thing to aspire to.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, what this. I'm gonna just leave this one really broad and open too. What do men think about women aging?

[Xander Marin]

That's an interesting question. It's a funny question because I feel like throughout. Okay, just. I'm just talking totally personally here.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay?

[Xander Marin]

But actually, no, first of all, I will say this. I have not. Okay, we're. I'm 39. I'm almost 40. Vanessa is 41. So, you know, that's the general age of, like. Like, my friends. Because, like, so I. I don't. I have not had the experience of any of my friends talking about their partner's aging or, like, oh, she's getting so old, or her body, blah, blah, blah. I've. I have not had that experience. I. I have never once. I've never once heard any of my friends talk about. Talk about that at all. And it's. It's funny because for me, personally, I feel like, you know, when we were in our. In our 20s and kind of early to mid-30s, I feel like that was just something where I was like, yeah, we're still young. And I feel like we're at the point where I'm like, okay, yeah, we're, like, getting into middle age. Like, that's definitely. That's definitely where. Where we are. And. Yeah, I guess when I was younger, I always kind of wondered, like, oh, yeah, well, like, you know, what will it be like when we are. When, you know, both of us are starting to see, like, changes to our body? You know, like, I'm getting some gray hairs and stuff. You're not.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'm not. Yeah, weirdly, yeah.

[Xander Marin]

But. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, objectively, there have been changes to both of our bodies, I think. And, yeah, I think I was always like, oh, yeah, like, is that something I'm gonna notice? But I think it's very much just, like, you don't really note. I feel like from teenage years onwards, like, you don't really notice people aging. It's just. You're just kind of keyed into, like, this is the general age group of people that I'm in. And we.

[Vanessa Marin]

We're doing it together.

[Xander Marin]

We're doing it together.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's happening slowly.

[Xander Marin]

We're doing it together. And like, yeah, you just kind of tend to be attracted to the people that are in your age bracket. That's what you're used to looking at, right? Like, I. Yeah, it's like, I see people that are younger, and I might be like, okay, yeah, that person is. Is attractive and, like. But they look really young. So, yeah, I feel like my brain just is constantly developing to be acclimated to, like, what Our age group is.

[Vanessa Marin]

You're saying you're not in the pervy old man stage of thinking 20 year olds are hot?

[Xander Marin]

Not yet. Not yet.

[Vanessa Marin]

Have you seen any like 20, 20 somethings lately that you thought were wrong?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, they look like children to me.

[Vanessa Marin]

Interesting. Okay, well, so, okay, the bigger picture here is that in general, men aging is seen as a good thing. I mean, fucking Pedro Pascal. Why can't, why am I saying it so weird? Pedro, Pedro, whatever. Pedro, Pedro. He is, he's looking like hotter and hotter as he gets older and older. You are looking so much hotter as you get older.

[Xander Marin]

I think you look hotter as you been getting older.

[Vanessa Marin]

So I think men in general, like when they get a little rugged, some leathery skin, some gray hair, like men start to look real good as they get older. And women, we are socialized to believe that women don't look as good as we're getting older. We're socialized to believe that our prime is like, like in our 20s and it's all like downhill from there. So I think a lot of women feel very conscious of, you know, you're getting hotter and I'm getting naughter and. Yeah, it just feels like there's so much that we're grappling with that can feel really scary. Especially after a lifetime of being taught that our, you know, one of our primary values is our attractiveness. Feeling like you're losing that, things are sagging, skin's losing elasticity, gray hairs are coming in, wrinkles are forming. Like, it can be really scary for a lot of women.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I think you're just getting hotter and hotter, being totally honest with you.

[Vanessa Marin]

What about when my hair does start to go gray?

[Xander Marin]

That's, I, I won't be surprised when that happens. That's just where we're at. Yeah, I don't know. I, I don't know to tell you, like I've, I mean, like I said, I'm not going to be surprised. Like mine is starting to, so why wouldn't yours? You're older than I am.

[Vanessa Marin]

Rude. I don't. It's interesting. Yeah, it like brings up this, it's just an interesting question to sit with in general too. Like, I feel like I've heard so often, like middle aged women are just so invisible in our society. Like we're. All of our value is being, you know, being young and hot. And when you start getting into middle age, which I guess we are your 40s, kind of middle age. I don't, I've never been sure.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. It just feels like so much of our, our value starts to go away, and that's a really sad, scary thing. So I think so many women are worrying, you know, is my partner. Well, here's the thing. It's like society is viewing this, me in this way. Is my partner viewing me in this way that I'm getting less and less desirable and less and less attractive to them.

[Xander Marin]

I'm not. I've not heard any of my friends talk about that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, good to know.

[Xander Marin]

So, yeah, if they feel that way, they don't feel that way strongly enough to complain to their, to their guy friends about it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Here's an interesting question. What keeps a man engaged in a relationship?

[Xander Marin]

Wow. Okay. I think, I mean, I think I. I think like, I think men want to be in relationships where they feel, like, seen and understood and appreciated. I think, I think, I think appreciation is, Is a big thing. And yeah, that's. I, I think where things go wrong with appreciation is this sort of feeling. Like, what I'm not saying is men need to be appreciated for doing the bare minimum. I think a lot of people, you know, I think that two things can be true that, like, yeah, maybe the load in your relationship is, Is wildly imbalanced. That doesn't mean that there's nothing to appreciate about your partner. That also doesn't mean that it's totally okay that the load is totally imbalanced. And I'm so, I'm not telling you, yeah, just go appreciate your husband and don't do anything about the, the wild imbalance in your relationship. But I think, yeah, I think that it can be very easy to kind of forget about just like the small things. I think that keeping it spicy sexually, whether that is just making an effort to have sex be more top of mind or to do new things together. It's not always like, oh, he just needs to be doing new things. It could, it could just be like, like, hey, like, it would be cool to see May or my partner show some excitement about sex or talk about it with me, not like, avoid the conversation. I think so many men have the experience of getting into a relationship and then it feels like their partner wants to avoid the conversa. The, the topic of sex because they're worried that it might lead to sex. And, and you know, sex in that moment is not actually something that they are wanting. Um, so again, I'm not saying like, oh, you need to want sex all the time. I think, you know, to women, I think men need to be. Men need to in general do a better job figuring out how to co create good sexual experiences and co create like the space in your relationship and your home life and everything to have the space for sex to be more top of mind. But that being said, I, I do think that, I do think that men want in general, men who like to have sex generally enjoy seeing their partner enjoy that. Because I think honestly my experience like going through puberty was like, look, obviously boys, men, teenagers, whatever, like obviously like we're horny, we want it. Things are happening like going through puberty. Like I'm thinking about things and I feel like for me my biggest question mark sort of through my sexual awakening and puberty era was just this kind of like constant wonder of like, like do our women, girls, whatever. Like, like are girls actually into this? Like, I don't, I can't tell. Like I want, I really like, I really want them to be. It's really the idea that they're thinking about a lot of these same things I am is really hot. That but like I genuinely don't know. And I think the reality is yes, they are. They also are really socialized to be really careful in how they talk about it. And I think it's really easy to get the idea that like, oh, you know, you get into a relationship and things are exciting at first and then things kind of start going in that direction where it's like, oh, we're not really talking about it, we're talking around the issue and now they want to avoid this topic and you can come away with this idea that oh yeah, maybe like maybe they just aren't into this at all. Or maybe, yeah, like maybe this is just something that I want. So I think that, yeah, I think it's important that, that sex is top of mind and is a, a topic of, a fun topic of discussion. And yeah, I mean I think also like you want someone to kind of like be on the adventure of life with you and maybe to, to like support you in your, you know, I think that maybe men more often than women in relationships kind of have like, like, I don't know, kind of like weird or goofy ideas like oh, we should do this or that and like I think just someone that kind of, you know, is supportive in the getting a hair up, a wild hair up your nose every now and then of like, okay, yeah, I'm down, let's try that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. Yeah, it's a good answer. I also want to say, I think behind this question is also another question like how do I get My partner to be more engaged in our relationship. That is something that we see all the time in male, female relationships. Is women feeling like, you know, I'm the one actively working on the relationship, trying to make it better, wanting us to, like, go deeper with each other. And sometimes it can feel like men are just. Just happy with the status quo or like, I'm just here, whatever. So I did want to do a little shout out for our membership, Deeper, which is designed to help couples go deeper with each other, to create more intimacy, to have that kind of closeness and connection physically and emotionally, that we all are always wanting. And we really designed the membership to make this as simple, straightforward, and easy as possible. Because intimacy really can feel like a very huge puzzle that none of us knows how to put together.

[Xander Marin]

It is a big puzzle, but there are specific things that you can do. There's some pathways that we figured out that are shortcuts to getting that puzzle done.

[Vanessa Marin]

So we'll tell you a little bit more about that at the end of the episode. Or you can also just go straight to vmtherapy.com deeper to check that out. Okay. We're gonna do some rapid fires.

[Xander Marin]

Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

There are a couple of, like, real specific things that women were curious about. What do men really think about leg hair?

[Xander Marin]

How much leg hair?

[Vanessa Marin]

Any leg hair?

[Xander Marin]

I mean, look, I. You will say, oh, my God, my legs are so hairy, I won't notice. Like, it needs to be real, real long for me to.

[Vanessa Marin]

To.

[Xander Marin]

To really notice it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Are my legs hairy right now?

[Xander Marin]

No.

[Vanessa Marin]

You sure about that?

[Xander Marin]

No, I'm not sure, but to me, to me, I don't ever have the experience of your legs being hairy.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. Because sometimes I go a real long time without shaving them. I don't think you've ever. Yeah. You've never. There have been times where I'm like, whoa. And you've never, like, even noticed?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I mean, I think if. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what I would think if, say, like, you didn't shave your legs at all. I don't know. It's really hard for me to say because you've. You've always shaved your legs.

[Vanessa Marin]

What if I didn't want to shave my legs?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. I don't know. I. I'd have to see how that goes. I don't think I would be unattracted to you. I genuinely don't know. Wanna try it out?

[Vanessa Marin]

No, not really. But I respect people's body autonomy, and for some people, like, they don't want to deal with the hassle of it. Some people, like, genuinely like the way that their leg hair looks. Some people are like, fuck the patriarchy. I'm not shaving my legs. So body hair can be actually a pretty political issue.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I know. I totally get it. I totally get it. And I think, like, I think the reality is, is that we. We all have preferences about each other bodies and hygiene. I think it's just a matter of, like, are we able to express those in a. In a supportive and reasonable way. Like, for example, you have a very strong preference for me to have facial hair.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yes.

[Xander Marin]

Like, you would be very upset if I shaved my beard, for example. And so I. I don't know. I do. Like, my beard has been a part of how I look for, like, the last almost 14 years. So it's really hard to know what I would look like without the beard. Sometimes I'm curious about it, but I go, you know what? Vanessa really prefers me to have the beard. I'll keep the beard. And so I think that, like, I do think that. Yeah, like, if you were, you know, I don't know, like, if you were to say, you know what? I'm really sick of shaving my leg hair. I want to see what it's like with. With hair on my legs. I think it would be reasonable. Like, I think it would be fair and reasonable to be like, you know what? For the last 18 years, I've not really had leg hair. I'm curious about. Let's look at this as an experiment and like, like, like, let's check in together about how we're feeling about it. Like, totally understanding. Like, like, I totally understand that you might have some preferences around it. And, like, let's talk about it rather than like, hey, I'm gonna do this, and you'd better be okay with it. Cause the reality is, is, like, that's a tricky one. Like, I could be, like, I could be like, baby, I'm shaving my face today. And you don't get to say anything about it.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, it's.

[Xander Marin]

I know it will affect. But it will affect your attractiveness, your attraction to me.

[Vanessa Marin]

I know that it is all about the delivery, and it's all about, like, I think you and I both recog that each of us has body autonomy. It's my body. I can do whatever I want with my body. That's your body. You can do whatever you want with your body. We do express preferences to each other about really just the beard is the only thing I care About. But, like, yeah, it's done in a respectful way where I've said to you, like, yeah, I think you look smoking hot with a beard. I love having your beard. But, like, I'm not going to be. I'm not not trying to control you or manipulate you. I wouldn't be, like, you know, punish you or get angry at you if you did shave your beard, you know, so it's like, the. The emotional tone around it is very important. I didn't think we'd get so deep with leg hair.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. I mean, but it is a tricky topic because it's like, yeah, we are allowed to have preferences, and I think that it's like, there is a way to be able to respectfully express those preferences. I think that we're. Yeah. If I was like, no, if you. If you stop shaving your legs, I won't want to have sex with you.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, no, that's not okay.

[Xander Marin]

Like, that's. That's not okay. That says more about me.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Than it says about you in terms of, like, what kind of partner I am. But I do think that, you know, it would be fair if you were like, hey, it's been three months since I shagged my legs. Like, what do you think? I think it'd be fair to me. Me be like, hey, I. I really support you doing what you want with your body. And I think, you know, I've realized over the last three months, like, I do have a preference for, you know, I. I think that if it were up to me, like, I prefer the shaved legs.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think so. Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

I'm still. I'm still attracted to you. I'm still attracted to you. You know, the legs are a small thing, but, like, I definitely do have a preference, you know, this way or, you know, of the other.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think that's fair. Okay. What do men really think about messy buns?

[Xander Marin]

I'm. I don't know if I honestly would be able to pick out a messy bun versus a tidy bun. What would you call a tight bun?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, tight buns.

[Xander Marin]

A tight bun.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, messy. Okay, I'll show you. Like, messy bun would just be. It's like you go like. Like, and it's just thrown up like that versus that's, like, how my hair is most of the time. It's just, like, thrown up in a messy bun versus, like a, you know, pretend my hair is brushed, but, like, then I'm doing, like, a little twist.

[Xander Marin]

I think I might, like. I might like the messy one better, honestly.

[Vanessa Marin]

So that's like, A little.

[Xander Marin]

You know, I think I might like the messy one better.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, yeah.

[Xander Marin]

If we're comparing this. I like. Speaking of preferences, I think it's sexy when you do a ponytail. That's my favorite.

[Vanessa Marin]

Ponytail's so funny to me.

[Xander Marin]

I like it.

[Vanessa Marin]

I never have my. I had my hair run a ponytail at the gym this morning.

[Xander Marin]

Oh. And I didn't notice. But you know what? I think that most of that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Wait, what about ponytail versus down ponytail?

[Xander Marin]

Really?

[Vanessa Marin]

You'd rather me have my hair in a ponytail than down?

[Xander Marin]

I like it. It's, like, sporty.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, sporty.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I like it, but I hate to say it, ladies. I think the vast majority of men don't really give a shit about what position your hair is in and don't know if you are having a messy bun or a non messy bun. A clean bun.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. Thick fake eyelashes. Do you know the kind I'm talking about?

[Xander Marin]

That I'm not sure, but when they.

[Vanessa Marin]

Kind of look like there's, like, big caterpillars on your eyes.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, I don't like that. I don't love that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Do you want to see a picture?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

I. I. But, like, I have to caveat this with, like, I am generally a fan of zero to very minimal makeup. That. That's just me. I know different men have different preferences. Yeah. Not into that.

[Vanessa Marin]

When you can tell that they're like.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I'm really not into that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Personally, I'm not into that either. I think this is such a dumb.

[Xander Marin]

Speak for all men on this. I think that maybe some men are.

[Vanessa Marin]

But honestly, I hate fake eyelashes.

[Xander Marin]

Honestly, I really do think that with most makeup choices, I think that most women are doing that, if we're being really honest, are doing it for other women more so than for men.

[Vanessa Marin]

That's true. Yeah. I've never been a big makeup person, and I'm really, like, in a very little makeup phase right now. Like, I'm putting some serum in my brows, and I'm putting on mascara, and that's it. Just really mascara most days. But I'm also doing, like, the brushing my eyebrows up trend, which we're gonna look back on in, like, 10 years and be like, what were we all doing? Brushing our eyebrows up. They look like d. Little caterpillars. But I'm not into the fake eyelet. I like a. Sometimes when I get my makeup done for photo shoots, she'll put on individual fake eyelashes. So it just makes me look like I have a little bit more eyelashes. But I don't like when you can see it's very obviously a strip, and it looks so thick and so long, and it's just so obviously, I want the fake eyelashes to look like real eyelashes.

[Xander Marin]

Some men must be into that. Maybe. I don't know. We'd have to ask a lot of other men. We got to pull that on Instagram.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Xander Marin]

I've never. You know, eyelashes are something I just don't really notice. I've never seen someone have been like, oh, my God, her eyelashes. I mean, really, it's like. It's like the entire face. The face and. Or even just like, the face and body. Like, everything as a whole. I'm not, like, picking it apart. Oh, God, though. Oh, that's hot. That's hot. That's not hot. That's not hot. Like, it's the overall. It's the overall look and vibe and energy.

[Vanessa Marin]

Would you say that men in general prefer less makeup than women do?

[Xander Marin]

Probably. Probably. I mean, I've never. Okay. I've never heard a guy be like, oh, God, I wish she'd wear more makeup. I wish she'd wear a full beat. I've never. Things I've never heard a man say.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, and here's our last one. What do men really think about wide leg versus skinny jeans?

[Xander Marin]

Oh, man. I saw. I showed you a reel the other day about this. We're, like, baggy. It was, like, baggy jeans and, like, the guy's, like, on the floor crying because he wants to, like, see her figure in the jeans on.

[Vanessa Marin]

What kind of jeans do you prefer?

[Xander Marin]

I think I prefer the skinny ones, but it's, like, a small preference. I. You've got some. I mean, you don't. You haven't really done any, like, ultra, ultra baggy.

[Vanessa Marin]

I've got some.

[Xander Marin]

Have you?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. I mean, I was wearing yesterday, like, those barely.

[Xander Marin]

God, I don't remember.

[Vanessa Marin]

Those barely sit on my hips.

[Xander Marin]

I don't. I obviously don't care very much because I don't remember them. This on.

[Vanessa Marin]

They're pretty baggy.

[Xander Marin]

I do think that. I do think what? Because this has been a trend for a couple of years now. I think I've gotten. I've acclimated to it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay.

[Xander Marin]

I've acclimated to it. I like seeing your ass.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, I have. That's what I try to go for with my wide leg jeans, where it's showing off the butt. It's a little tight on the butt, but then the legs get wider.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. Well, you've got a great ass. And I enjoy when you show it off. So yeah, I guess to me it doesn't really matter that much. You're short and your legs are low to the ground, so I don't like see them that much.

[Vanessa Marin]

What are you looking at then?

[Xander Marin]

Your face?

[Vanessa Marin]

Your butt actually, you're really just looking at the top of your butt, which is so sad. I don't think that's my most flattering angle.

[Xander Marin]

That's the one I get.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so slight preference for skinny jeans because they show off more of the body.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, like the silhouette.

[Vanessa Marin]

What about like, I, okay, like yoga pants? Do you like yoga pants? Because.

[Xander Marin]

Okay, yeah, yoga pants are hot. Um, yeah, I like seeing the figure. But again, it's like a small preference. I, I, but to be like, to be fair, I don't think I've ever seen so like a woman in really baggy jeans have been like, oh my God, those jeans are smok hot.

[Vanessa Marin]

But could you imagine seeing a woman where like overall the vibe was just smoking hot, where you're not paying specific attention to the jeans.

[Xander Marin]

But I mean, I guess what could be fun is like, oh, like what's under those jeans? Like what am I, what are we gonna get?

[Vanessa Marin]

You never know. Cause they're real baggy.

[Xander Marin]

Like, yeah, like what are you gonna get? Like it's unwrapping a present. Like, I don't know what's in there. Is it a tiny present in a big box or is it a big present in a big box? I don't know.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

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[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

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[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

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[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

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[Vanessa Marin]

All right. Well, we're gonna call it a day there. Thank you for speaking for all men again. Are you nervous at all?

[Xander Marin]

I'm always a little nervous.

[Vanessa Marin]

Really?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. It's a lot of pressure.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. Well, hopefully we'll do this again. Maybe we won't wait quite as long.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Episode 69 to 213. All right. Well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We new episodes every Thursday.