EPISODE 217: Got the Ick? Why It Happens in Relationships + What to Do About It

Summary

Pillow Talks Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: EPISODE 217: Got the Ick? Why It Happens in Relationships + What to Do About It
Hosts: Vanessa & Xander Marin
Release Date: July 17, 2025

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Introduction to "The Ick"

In Episode 217 of Pillow Talks, hosts Vanessa and Xander Marin delve deep into the phenomenon known as "the ick." This term, widely popularized on social media, describes the sudden feeling of repulsion toward a romantic partner due to a minor quirk or behavior, which can starkly shift one’s perception of the relationship.

Vanessa Marin (00:51):
"Today, we are doing a deep dive into the ick. So if you haven't heard this phrase before, it has been all over social media. Basically, it refers to when you're on an early date with somebody and they do something that gives you the ick. Suddenly, you go from being attracted to them to like, ew, I'm not so interested anymore."

Understanding "The Ick"

Xander Marin (01:54):
"The key thing with the ick is that even if there are multiple things you love about someone, one small negative thing can overshadow them all."

Vanessa emphasizes that "the ick" represents a point of no return in dating scenarios, where minor annoyances can dissolve attraction swiftly and decisively.

Vanessa Marin (02:45):
"Once you get the ick, there's no coming back from it."

"The Ick" in Long-Term Relationships

The conversation shifts to how "the Ick" affects long-term relationships, where the stakes are much higher compared to early dating stages. The hosts discuss the increased stress and potential fallout when "the Ick" arises after years of commitment.

Vanessa Marin (03:01):
"In long-term relationships, getting the ick can lead to significant decisions like breaking up or moving out, making it a more complex issue."

Social Media Insights and Listener Stories

Vanessa and Xander engaged with their Instagram community to gather real-life stories about experiencing "the Ick." They received an overwhelming number of responses, highlighting various personal anecdotes that underscore the relatability of the topic.

Vanessa Marin (09:07):
"We polled people on Instagram and asked, 'If you're in a long-term relationship, have you ever gotten the ick from your partner?' 87% of people have experienced it."

Common Triggers of "The Ick"

The hosts identify and discuss the five most common triggers of "the Ick" based on listener submissions:

1. Bad Breath (11:44)

   • Xander humorously shares his disdain for bad breath, acknowledging it as a significant turn-off, especially during close interactions like kissing.

   Xander Marin (11:44):
   "Sometimes breath is not minty fresh. If it's truly horrendous, that's tough."

2. Poor Nail Hygiene (12:20)

   • Squeamishness towards habits like clipping nails in strange places or peeling nails off surfaces.

   Vanessa Marin (12:23):
   "I might have a nick around nails."

3. Noisy Eating Habits (13:07)

   • Issues like chewing loudly or having unusual eating behaviors that disrupt the dining experience.

4. Personal Habits (17:11 - 19:02)

   • Specific quirks such as aggressive condiments use, standing while wiping, or peculiar fork-holding techniques that elicit strong negative reactions.

   Vanessa Marin (17:25):
   "Squeezing condiments into his mouth instead of on a plate. Who does that?"

5. Repetitive Behaviors (15:03 - 16:22)

   • Repeating the same stories or jokes can lead to diminished interest and attraction over time.

Addressing and Managing "The Ick"

Vanessa and Xander explore strategies to handle "the Ick" effectively within relationships:

1. Normalizing "The Ick":

   • Acknowledging that everyone has minor annoyances and that it's a natural part of human relationships.

   Vanessa Marin (07:35):
   "Nobody is ick free. We all do things that are annoying and turn offs. It's part of being human."

2. Differentiating from Red Flags:

   • Clarifying that while "the Ick" involves minor annoyances, red flags pertain to serious issues like abuse or fundamental value differences.

   Vanessa Marin (06:09):
   "Red flags are about core beliefs and safety, whereas icks are lighter and more about personal turn-offs."

3. Removing Oneself from Negative Stimuli:

   • Choosing to distance oneself from behaviors that trigger "the Ick" when appropriate.

4. Open Communication:

   • Encouraging honest and gentle discussions with partners about bothersome behaviors without shaming them.

   Vanessa Marin (46:38):
   "Make a kind and gentle request. For example, ask your partner to be considerate about how they handle farting in shared spaces."

Listener Questions and Real-Life Scenarios

The episode features real listener questions, providing practical advice on navigating challenges related to "the Ick."

Case Study 1: Overcoming Habitual Baby Talk in a Long-Term Relationship

A listener shares her struggle with her fiancé’s persistent use of baby talk, which has impacted emotional intimacy and attraction.

Vanessa Marin (43:52):
"You've built resentment by suppressing your needs. Individual therapy could help you work through these feelings and rebuild your perception of your partner."

Xander Marin (42:34):
"Express your needs clearly. Your partner has responded positively by trying to change his habit, indicating a willingness to grow together."

Takeaway: Open communication and individual self-reflection are crucial in addressing deep-seated issues stemming from "the Ick."

Case Study 2: Managing Unwanted Dirty Texts

Another listener describes how her husband’s overly explicit texts during busy or stressful times are turning her off, despite his intentions to maintain intimacy.

Vanessa Marin (54:30):
"Be specific about the language you prefer. Create a positive environment where both partners can share what works best for them."

Xander Marin (55:48):
"Ensure consistency in your requests. Clear communication helps prevent misunderstandings and fosters mutual respect."

Takeaway: Customizing intimate communication to fit both partners' comfort levels can mitigate negative reactions to "the Ick."

Final Thoughts and Future Discussions

Vanessa and Xander conclude the episode by acknowledging the complexity of "the Ick" and emphasizing the importance of self-awareness and proactive communication in relationships. They hint at exploring the topic further in future episodes, encouraging listeners to share their stories and engage with them on social media.

Vanessa Marin (62:39):
"We have many more questions to explore. Let us know on Instagram if you want a part two!"

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Notable Quotes

• Vanessa Marin (00:51):
  "It's the sex education you wish you'd had!"

• Xander Marin (01:54):
  "Even if you have multiple positive traits, one small negative can overshadow them."

• Vanessa Marin (07:35):
  "Nobody is ick free. We all do things that are annoying and turn offs."

• Vanessa Marin (46:38):
  "Make a kind and gentle request."

Conclusion

Episode 217 of Pillow Talks provides an insightful exploration of "the Ick," blending professional expertise with personal anecdotes to offer listeners a comprehensive understanding of this common relationship phenomenon. Vanessa and Xander Marin equip their audience with practical strategies to address and manage the "Ick," fostering healthier and more resilient romantic connections.

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For more detailed discussions and resources mentioned in this episode, listeners are encouraged to visit the Pillow Talks Instagram page and explore their Deeper Memories membership for specialized guides and worksheets.

Transcript

[Vanessa Marin]

When he high fives everyone around him with his team score.

[Xander Marin]

I mean, simple solution. Stop going to public places to watch sports games. I'm just kidding. The face he makes when he cleans his ear with a Q tip. I mean, I think it might be time, bro, to just start doing that in private.

[Vanessa Marin]

Squeezing. This one was insane. Squeezing condiments into his mouth instead of on a plate. And then dipping. Who does this?

[Xander Marin]

I would like.

[Vanessa Marin]

You have a fry. You put like a fry in your mouth and a ketchup bottle. I don't understand.

[Xander Marin]

I would. Oh, my God.

[Vanessa Marin]

Hello and welcome to the Pillow talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex therapist with over 20 years of experience.

[Xander Marin]

And I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for. For improving yours.

[Vanessa Marin]

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today, we are doing a deep dive into the ick. So if you haven't heard this phrase before, it has been all over social media. And basically what it refers to is when you're typically, it's been used in dating. Like you're on an early date with somebody and they do something and they say something or. Yeah, typically it's this small thing that they do that gives you the ick. So all of a sudden you go from being into this person, attracted to them, curious about them, to like, ew, I'm not so interested in you anymore. So it's like, it's a small thing, but it has a big impact.

[Xander Marin]

And I think the key thing with the ick is that it's like, it's like, even if, you know, I don't know, I'm totally simplifying this. But it's like you're. You're on a date with someone and there's like nine things that you love about them and are you're attracted to. And then there's like one kind of negative thing or whatever. It's like if you get the ick from that one thing, what people will report saying is, like, it doesn't matter to me anymore that there are these nine things. No matter how positive these nine things are, in a normal situation, these nine things versus this one thing would totally outweigh the one thing. But now that I felt the ick, it's like, it doesn't matter how big or small, because usually it is really small. It doesn't matter how small it is. It doesn't matter how great those other nine things are. It's like it just kind of wipes them away in your mind.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. And it really changes things. Like, no, I just can't keep dating that person. I got the ick from them. It's like a point of no return. Once you get the ick, there's no coming back from the ick.

[Xander Marin]

Kind of like I can't see them the same way anymore. Yeah, I'm thinking about the ick thing all the time.

[Vanessa Marin]

So typically, like, the ick was first used in dating, but now we're seeing it talked more and more in. Talked about more and more in relationships too, of people saying, yeah, my partner's like, giving me the ick. Is that normal for my partner to give me the ick? Does it mean something's wrong with us or our relationship? Can we come back from it? If I get the ick from my partner? And I think it's causing even more stress in relationships because the stakes are so much higher. It's not like, oh, this is my second date with somebody and I got the ick from them, so I'm not going on a third. It's, I've been with this person for five years and now I've got the ick. Do we have to break up? Do I have to move out of the home that we share together? Like, the stakes are just so much higher. So we think that this is just a fascinating topic overall. So we decided to do an entire deep dive episode all about the ick. So we turned to Instagram. We asked people, you know, if you're in a long term relationship and you've gotten the ick from your partner, tell us about it. What was the situation? What gave you the ick? What are things like now between the two of you? And we got so many incredible stories. We're not gonna even be able to get through all of them, but we're gonna have fun trying. So if you're new here. Hi, I'm Vanessa. I'm a sex therapist. I have over 20 years of experience in this field.

[Xander Marin]

And I'm Xander. I'm her husband. And I'm not a sex therapist, but we've been together a really long time. We've talked about all this stuff. I feel like I've heard close to everything now, but I am always still learning. So I'm trying to, you know, I feel like I have a little more of the regular GU perspective.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so let's talk a little bit more about backgrounds, about the ick. A couple of key things for us to recognize. One is that icks are not always rational. Like, if there's a huge thing, you know, let's say you're out at dinner with your partner and they get up and slap the waiter. Like, obviously that's something that makes a lot of sense for you to say. Like, wow, that makes me see you in a really different way. I'm not interested in dating you any longer or being in a relationship with you any longer.

[Xander Marin]

And I think the key thing there is that, you know, big things like that are ones where it's like, most people or many people would agree with you. Yeah, I wouldn't see someone the same way after they do that. Or, you know, a less extreme but still common version of what you just described might be, we had a, like a really great date. I was super into everything about this person, and then the check came and they were super rude to the wait staff. Something like that. Where it's like, hey, it's understandable. Like, you know, and it's an understandable thing to think, you know, hey, the way that this person treats the staff is maybe a window into the way that they feel about people that work for them or people that are in lower positions than them or something. So that's just not something I'm very attracted to. Where it's like, that wouldn't really be the ick. That's like, you know, you go talk to your friends. Most of your friends are probably like, yeah, I probably wouldn't go on a second date with that person.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Whereas an ick type thing, you go talk to your friends about it and like, many of them might be like, oh, yeah, I wouldn't have thought anything of that.

[Vanessa Marin]

We also got people asking like, well, what's the difference between a red flag and an ick? Red flags are definitely much more around differences about, like, core beliefs, life values, and of course, any sort of abuse, like verbal, emotional, physical abuse. Like, those things all would fit into red flag territory, which is like, that's a no go, time to end the relationship, stop seeing that person.

[Xander Marin]

Or, yeah, like, I mean, a red flag. Great example of red flags. The thing I just described of, like, oh, you know, super rude to the waitstaff, or we were traveling and they were like, super rude to everyone at the hotel or something like that.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. So. And icks are much lighter things. Like, they're frustrating, they're annoying, they're turn offs, but they're not necessarily things that like have directly harmed you. They're not abusive in any way. They're more kind of like light hearted things.

[Xander Marin]

Inconsequential.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. To most people, or that may be a better way of putting it. The other important thing to recognize, and this is why I think it's become so harmful in relationships. So the truth is that nobody is ick free. Like we all do things that are annoying and turn offs and gross. Like nobody is perfectly polished and prepared and you know, all the time. So I think people are getting themselves so worked up about getting the ick when we need to recognize, like, getting the ick is a normal part of being in a relationship. It's the normal part of being human.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. How, like, how could you not? Especially when I think another characteristic of the ick, obviously if you have felt the ick from something that somebody did in the past, then you know, oh yeah, I got the ick when somebody did that. But most of most situations I think that people talk about the ick. It's like it's something they didn't even know was going to bother them in advance. And all of a sudden it's like somebody does something, you're like, ooh, I had never, I've never experienced anything like that. Or maybe I've seen that in the past and it didn't bother me. And the way this person said this one thing was just like, whoa. All this, you know, new egg unlocked. So it's like if you don't know what they are in advance because they're not common things, like, are you respectful to people? Are, you know, like, are you like constantly talking about your exes or you know, whatever is like red flag type things or things that many other people would agree. Yeah, okay, that's a pretty acceptable thing for you to not be interested in this person for. Like if you don't know what the things are in advance and like how you can't control or ever get to a point with someone where you're like safe from the ick. Okay, we made it five years and I haven't gotten the ick, so we're good.

[Vanessa Marin]

Remember that doctor's appointment you were supposed to make a while ago? Uh, oh, the one you meant to book but you got sidetracked. You completely forgot about it until now.

[Xander Marin]

Now it's gonna take forever to get an appointment.

[Vanessa Marin]

Maybe it was that dentist appointment for your biannual cleaning, Overdue annual checkup that has been like three years in the making. Or the dermatologist appointment for the rash that's been looking a little off. Well, we are excited to tell you about Zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. They have over 100,000 doctors across every specialty. Mental health, dental health, primary care, urgent care and more. And Zocdoc just makes the whole process so easy. I know it's really easy to get stressed out when you have a medical necessity, but they just have these incredible filters. You can find doctors that take your insurance, are nearby, are a good fit for the specific need that you have.

[Xander Marin]

They're actually taking new patients.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. And highly rated by actual verified patients. Plus you can see actual appointment openings. You can choose a time slot, click to instantly book a visit. You can often get appointments within just 24 to 72 hours of booking, sometimes even same day appointments. The next time we need a doctor. We are definitely turning to Zocdoc to get rid of all the excuses and probably prioritize our health. So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com pillow to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's z o c-o c.com pillow zocdoc.com pillow we polled people on Instagram and asked, if you're in a long term relationship right now, have you ever gotten the ick from your partner? 10% said yes, often. That's pretty. 1 in 10 people are often getting the ick from their partner. 39% said yes regularly, 38 said yes but rarely and only 13% said never. So 87% of people have gotten the ick from their partner. Pretty wild. Then we put up a question box that asked tell us what is the thing that has given you the ick? And I think this was our most responded to question box ever. Like I could not even look through all the responses because there were so many of them. It was wild. So we found five most common icks. The ones that just came up over and over and over again. So, Xander, why don't you share with us what are the most common ones?

[Xander Marin]

All right, number one, bad breath. I'm 100% on board with this. I mean sometimes breath is not wonder. I think breath is a tricky one because it's like sometimes we're like, it's not minty fresh. It's bad, but it's like, is it? Yeah. If it's really Truly horrendous. That's tough. Especially for being in close quarters, kissing all of that. All right, toenails or just nails in general. So that could be clipping them in random places, peeling them off, touching your partner with your nails. Like you're like, like scratching at them.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think I might have a nick around nails. Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

I'm sorry. To our YouTube audience. It probably just saw my foot scratching at the camera. Little free feet for you. Oh, and then finally chewing off fingernails. I had a very short period of time as a kid where I chewed my fingernails.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh. I never was a nail biter, thank God.

[Xander Marin]

And I don't know.

[Vanessa Marin]

Gross to me.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know if this just happened natur or in response to me chewing my nails, but I feel like ever since I did that, my nails got thicker such that I can't chew them, which is great. I mean, they're like really thick. It's like.

[Vanessa Marin]

But your teeth are very strong. You could bite those nails if you wanted to.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, God. I don't know. I feel like I used to be able to. And I got a point where I was like, this is not pleasant. Like, they're too thick.

[Vanessa Marin]

Some really weird tangent. Okay.

[Xander Marin]

Open mouth. Chewing or chewing too loud.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

I am guilty of this sometimes. You know who's really guilty of this?

[Vanessa Marin]

Who?

[Xander Marin]

My father. And that's where I get it from.

[Vanessa Marin]

Call him out. I can't say anything. I'm not saying anything.

[Xander Marin]

My dad is really, really, really guilty of this. And I. Yeah, I had a bad example.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think you're pretty bad.

[Xander Marin]

I know, I know.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's so bad that I have to have a secret signal when we're like out at dinner with other people where I'm like, trying to.

[Xander Marin]

But here's the thing. I am aware of it. And I do. When I do realize I try to cover my mouth.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's bad. All right. You're also bad at the next one.

[Xander Marin]

Farting.

[Vanessa Marin]

You're not horrible. But farts are. Farts are a nick for me.

[Xander Marin]

Up until now, these are basically like bodily function esque things, whereas these seem like reasonable things.

[Vanessa Marin]

Peeling your nails off in random places is not a.

[Xander Marin]

But yeah, they're functioning function related stuff where it's like, these are, like, understandable. And I feel like many people would be like, yeah, I'm not into the nails thing. It's not like. It's not like you go out to brunch with your friends and you're like, hey, so I went on a date last night with this person and you know, they XYZ and in like, you know, your friends are split. Half of them are like, ew, that's gross. The other half are like, I don't see what the big deal is. I feel like these are all situations where many people would agree with, they would be a little icked out, squeaked out. And then finally I feel a little called out here. Repeating the same story or joke I've heard. Well, actually we, I think maybe we both are getting called out here. I, I am not great with not repeating stories.

[Vanessa Marin]

You repeat a lot of your stories.

[Xander Marin]

I repeat a lot of stories. However, you and, and your entire family repeats a lot of jokes.

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't really tell a lot of jokes though. Like jokes. But my family does for sure. But also, I mean, repeating the same stories, that's just part of being in a long term relationship. Because like you have, you know, you have stories that you tell and you tell them, you know, when we're out to dinner with these friends and then we go out to dinner with different friends and you're gonna tell the same. Like that's just part of being in a relationship. You gotta hear the same story over and over again.

[Xander Marin]

I mean, imagine, imagine.

[Vanessa Marin]

But you do tell me, you do tell me the same story a lot. And I'm like, babe, I know. And then you're like, yeah, but. And then you keep going, you know.

[Xander Marin]

I just really want to relate with you, babe. It's a bid. It's a bid for communication.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, I know. I've heard this story a million times, babe. And you're like, well, let me tell you anyways.

[Xander Marin]

Well, I mean, shit, part of being in a relationship is you are together for years and years and years. And, you know, sometimes you're not creating new stories at a rate to counteract the old stories.

[Vanessa Marin]

You have some good stories that I don't mind hearing again. But sometimes you're like, you're telling me the same. It's like a saying store.

[Xander Marin]

Would you rather me make up new stories?

[Vanessa Marin]

Sure. Keep it spicy. Okay. Then. We also got so many funny icks in this question box. And these just killed me. I had to stop myself. There's probably like 15 on this list that I wanted to read out loud. I had to stop myself because I'm like, we could spend the entire episode just reading these up. But they were so specific. And some of them just put such specific mental images in my head. Like I could see the exact moment that that person is talking about. I'm like, yes, that is totally an ick.

[Xander Marin]

And I feel like these are more exemplative of, like, the tip. The stereotypical ick, where it's, like, a very specific but random thing. Not, like, you know, as opposed to, like. Like, bad breath.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, let's. Let's alternate them when he high fives everyone around him with his team score.

[Xander Marin]

I mean, simple solution. Stop going to public places to watch sports games. I'm just kidding. The face he makes when he cleans his ear with a Q tip. I mean, I think it might be time, bro, to just start doing that in private.

[Vanessa Marin]

Squeezing. This one was insane. Squeezing condiments into his mouth instead of on a plate. And then dipping. Who does love this?

[Xander Marin]

I would.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, you have a fry. You put, like, a fry in your mouth, and then there's, like, a ketchup bottle. I don't understand.

[Xander Marin]

I would. Oh, my God.

[Vanessa Marin]

And you would get so much of it in your mouth, like, and all over the place. I don't understand this one.

[Xander Marin]

I'm not sure I could be in a relationship with you if you did this.

[Vanessa Marin]

Sure. Give me the egg.

[Xander Marin]

Like, we wouldn't have made it past our first couple dates if doing it.

[Vanessa Marin]

In public, I'd be so embarrassed. The waitress comes by, and it's like, can you maybe not put your mouth around the ketchup bottle, sir? I hope you're watching on YouTube. Xander just did a little double fisting action over here.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, my God. Wait. I have so many questions about this one already, and I haven't even read it. The way he wipes standing up. Wait, this one is on you. To the person who wrote it. Why are you watching him wipe? Who cares if he stands up or sits? You shouldn't care because you shouldn't be watching.

[Vanessa Marin]

You should never.

[Xander Marin]

Why do you need to see that?

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't.

[Xander Marin]

It's like you open Pandora's box, and you're like, this fucking box. It's your fault. It's your fault that there's this box here that I don't like. Girl, you open the fucking box.

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't understand.

[Xander Marin]

Hashtag, let him wipe in peace. That's what I have to say.

[Vanessa Marin]

I really don't understand why people poop in front of each other. Like, I don't want you anywhere near my vicinity when I'm pooping, and certainly not when I'm wiping. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, that is so private. I don't ever want anyone to know what it looks like when I'm wiping my ass.

[Xander Marin]

If we had to poop in Front of. Or if it's like, if it was a situation where there's an emergency. There's only one bathroom. I'm. I'm on the toilet, and you have to get something, and I'm not able to, like, get up and get it for you. Like, like, okay, sure. Like, I'll sit there, you run and get it. Leave. Like, if we have to see each other pooping, so be it. I would say in a controlled situation, but, like, why the white. The wiping. That's just. That's too much. That. That is too much. Call me a prude if you are, you know, a liberal wiper, I guess I can't even think of, like, what, the open wiper or something. I mean, I'm curious. Are there. Are there people that advocate, like, the benefits of.

[Vanessa Marin]

What are the benefits?

[Xander Marin]

Wiping your butt in front of your partner in terms of vulnerability?

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't. I don't get it.

[Xander Marin]

I'm curious, where is the line?

[Vanessa Marin]

But also I'm curious about this one. Is it just that he's standing up while he's wiping? Because I know there's a big debate between people, like, sitting down versus standing up wiping, and typically, people don't even know that. The other. The thing that they don't do is an option. Like, people are. Sit. Are like, wait, people stand to wipe and people stand. Or like, people sit to wipe? Like, it doesn't make any sense.

[Xander Marin]

So I. I stood my entire life until about two years ago, I want to say. When we did a poll, we. We somehow were talking about this on Instagram, and people were like, oh, my God, you can't stand. Like, because then you, like, your cheeks go together and smushes the poop all around or something? And I was like, wait, you can sit. Like, aren't I going to, like, get the toilet off balance or something, putting all my weight on one side? But I do it now. And I, you know, honestly, I honestly cannot say if it's any better or not, but I do it because I feel like I got shamed by our.

[Vanessa Marin]

Instagram audience, and you got shamed sitting down.

[Xander Marin]

So I now poop. Wait, I do poop sitting down. I do wipe. I now wipe.

[Vanessa Marin]

He poops standing up, but he sits down to wipe.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, no, I poop sitting down and I wipe sitting down.

[Vanessa Marin]

I didn't shame you about that, though. No, our audience did.

[Xander Marin]

Our audience did. And you read the messages to me, so you kind of did.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, but also. Okay, so. But what I was saying, though, is, is it just that this Person gets the ick because he wipes standing up. Or is there a certain technique that he's using while standing because it says the way he wipes standing up? I don't know. Okay, our next.

[Xander Marin]

Well, you know what? We're never gonn know. We're never gonna know unless this person writes in.

[Vanessa Marin]

This one is not as funny, but it's still, like, such a funny mental image. How he holds a fork.

[Xander Marin]

How. How do you hold a fork in a weird way?

[Vanessa Marin]

Is it like fisting it? Like, caveman style? Like, stabbing it in?

[Xander Marin]

I don't even know. Now that I'm thinking about it. I don't even know how I hold a fork.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'm just dying thinking about somebody, like, watching their partner with a fork and just like, you know, yeah, this, to.

[Xander Marin]

Me, like, I mean, this is. This is such a good example of one. Because, like, I'm like, I can't really imagine a way that you would hold a fork that I would be grossed out by. Maybe I'd be like, that's weird. Whatever. But, like, actually turned off. Like, I don't want to have sex with this person. I can't. I really can't think of a way. And yet this person, for them, they're like, nope, doesn't do it for me.

[Vanessa Marin]

All right, you're next.

[Xander Marin]

Watching my partner run, that's. That's sad. I mean, that's funny, though. It's. It's specific, but it's also broad. Like, it's also broad. At least it's not watching my partner walk. Like, man, you're just. You're. You're screwed. If that's the case. I mean, maybe you guys don't run around each other very much. We don't really run around each other unless we're, like, late for a flight or something at the airport or. Or, you know, like, a quick little jog down the hallway to, like, grab something on our way out the house.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, your jog is kind of weird, actually.

[Xander Marin]

I mean, I'm just trying not to, like, slam my feet on the. On the hardwood floor in our house. Try not to bother our one dog that likes to bark at me if I run past her.

[Vanessa Marin]

All right? Saying ah after every time he takes a drink. Wait, do it. Uh, you had to do the, like.

[Xander Marin]

Slurping and, you know, I wanted to give a little ASMR for the crew. Mm.

[Vanessa Marin]

All right, you're up.

[Xander Marin]

The way he. Wow. This is just, like. This is just brutal. This is brutal. So good. The way he kicks his feet in the pool when he's treading water. Why are you looking down there? Also, let's be real. Let's be real. When you're in a pool treading water, like, you have to look pretty hard to look that far down. No.

[Vanessa Marin]

Because the reflective surface you can often, like, see.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know. Once the water's moving, though, I don't know. I think this person is.

[Vanessa Marin]

Have you ever seen the video where they film it from underneath? It's so good. My little pointy toes.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. And that's how. You just gotta stay away from pools then. Jeez.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. When he takes weirdly strong stances on fake scenarios, like how he would kill our dog if it attacked me one day.

[Xander Marin]

This is such a male. Male thing. Overly strong stances. I have, like, why are you even.

[Vanessa Marin]

Talking about our dog attacking me?

[Xander Marin]

I have one friend. We have a friend that does this. I'm pretty sure you know who I'm talking about. One of my college friends.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Is really all about strong stances. Strong stances on really weird fictional scenarios. And it's not for me. It's not for me. But, yeah, he goes real hard and causes some friction sometimes. So, yeah, I can understand this one. When he chases after a ping pong ball. Is this the same person with the running one?

[Vanessa Marin]

There is something about chasing after a ping pong ball.

[Xander Marin]

Well, it's. Cause it's like, you gotta get it fast, but it's low down and it's bouncing away from you.

[Vanessa Marin]

I keep missing it. Oh, my God, dying. These are so good. Like, I just want the entire rest of this episode just to be us reading these, but we have to move on. But this last one.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, there's one more.

[Vanessa Marin]

This last one's really something. He literally spreads his ass cheeks before he sits down on the toilet.

[Xander Marin]

And why do you know this? Why do you need to know this? You know what's funny is it's when sometimes we post reels on Instagram and people post that. That New York Times. That New York Times headline, we should know less about each other. You know, for, like, you know, one thing where it's like, oh, having sex in the middle of the day or something. And I think it's. It's kind of hilarious because it's like, well, this is literally what our account does. But this is a situation where that applies, where I'm like, you should really know less about your partner. Okay, so he. So he spreads his butt cheeks. I don't know why you need to do that if you do That, I mean, because you can, I mean you can effectively spread your cheeks using the toilet seat. Just put one cheek down.

[Vanessa Marin]

But you don't need to spread your cheeks. Like the poop will just come out.

[Xander Marin]

Also, if you spread your cheeks like I'm imagining you spread your cheeks, but then you have to take your hands off your cheeks in order to sit down. And in that split second where you take your hands off your butt cheeks go back together like you can't hold your butt cheeks. So I'm, I'm confused why, why this needs to happen in the first place. I'm confused why the partner has to even know that this is a thing.

[Vanessa Marin]

Maybe there's less wiping if you spread your teeth.

[Xander Marin]

Maybe I need to try this.

[Vanessa Marin]

Trying to think of a reason because.

[Xander Marin]

I mean that would be beneficial. I'm really open to anything that's going to help me in that department. But. But yeah, man. Why?

[Vanessa Marin]

If you do.

[Xander Marin]

Why, why are you seeing this?

[Vanessa Marin]

Tell us why.

[Xander Marin]

Okay, so you somehow know that your partner spreads their ass cheeks before they sit down in the toilet. Why are you regularly. Why are you regularly putting yourself in a position where you are exposed to this?

[Vanessa Marin]

Just close the door.

[Xander Marin]

Just. Wow.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

And it feels really luxurious.

[Vanessa Marin]

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[Xander Marin]

Like, can't stop thinking about it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Can't get out of your head.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. So the two, two things that you do.

[Xander Marin]

Okay. Yeah, bring it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, there are, there are a few.

[Xander Marin]

But the way I use the bathroom.

[Vanessa Marin]

No, thank God. Because that door is closed. Okay. One is when you are watching reels by yourself, you do this really creepy high pitched giggle and I really don't like it. And it's definitely a turn off and it does that will. It'll linger for a little bit where I'm like, oh. And so I've asked you to stop.

[Xander Marin]

Not really easy to do because it's. It just happens subconsciously. Like it's just.

[Vanessa Marin]

And it's sad that it's like a moment that's bringing you joy and happiness, but it's just you don't laugh like that any other way. Like, I like your laugh. I think you have a nice laugh. But there's this weird giggle that comes out when you're by yourself watching reels. Like if we are together watching reels, you don't do it. It's just when you're by yourself. So I don't understand it and I don't like it. And you also do this creepy thing with your toes where you like mash your toes together and like you're like squeezing them off each other. I don't know how to describe it. If you're watching on YouTube.

[Xander Marin]

No, they can't put them in the air.

[Vanessa Marin]

Put one in the air.

[Xander Marin]

The camera doesn't. I think, I mean, if it's gonna focus on my toes, my toes might just be wildly out of focus. They might be on your camera.

[Vanessa Marin]

He like, rubs his. Yeah, you're like your big toe and your second toe together, like back and forth.

[Xander Marin]

It's as if I'm trying to like, like cross my fingers.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

With my toes. And I can't, I can't. I can't like fully do it. So they just.

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't like, like it. But that one, like that. It's just like gross, but involuntarily. Yeah, I'll just look away and it doesn't, it doesn't bother me and it doesn't linger. Same thing with like farting and stuff. It's just like. It's a second of like, oh, gross. But then it's not like I'm not wanting to have sex with you, cuz you farted earlier in the day. Whatever. All right, what do I do that gives you? Do I give you the ick?

[Xander Marin]

No, you don't actually. Ah, I. Yeah, I don't know. I just like, I'm not really grossed out. There are things that you do that annoy me, but it's more like things that I notice later. Like. Like the way. No, it's not turn off.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's just like I don't do anything to turn you off. Turn your off.

[Xander Marin]

My. My mind just doesn't really work in that way. I don't think.

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't do anything that turns you. That doesn't make sense. I have to do something that turns you off.

[Xander Marin]

Well, it turns me off. I guess when I hear the word turns me off, I'm thinking I have to be turned on first to be turned off.

[Vanessa Marin]

No, you can start from zero and be turned off.

[Xander Marin]

I don't know. I think I'm pretty into you.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, I'm pretty into you too. But you do consider.

[Xander Marin]

Maybe there's things where there's moments where I'm, like, not wildly turned on, but I know that I could be if we do certain things. Things.

[Vanessa Marin]

But is this. Is it something that I'm doing that's.

[Xander Marin]

Like, I don't know. Not. I can't really think of anything. There's plenty of things that you do that. That annoy me. Like the way that you. When you're making a piece of toast, you very often go to the sink and scrape. Scrape the, like, burned off parts with a knife. And then you just leave the crumbs, the resulting crumbs in the sink. Sink. And the sink is already a little wet. And so then a couple hours later, it looks like something died in the sink. And there's all this stuck to the sink. And I don't love that. Or there's some random things you do with the sink that bother me.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, you have some weird things about the sink.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay. But it doesn't, like, turn you off. This is interesting.

[Xander Marin]

The closest thing. I mean, you asked me to stop complaining about this, though. It's the smell of your protein powder of one of your two protein powders.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's not like, something about me.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, it doesn't turn me off. It makes my stomach turn. I feel nauseous when I smell it.

[Vanessa Marin]

I mean, I didn't, like, personally make the protein powder. It doesn't say anything about me personally.

[Xander Marin]

Use it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Consume it.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, so we got, like, the vast majority of our responses were from women talking about men. And I was thinking that's because the vast majority of our audience is women on Instagram, which is true. But I wonder if men just don't get the ick.

[Xander Marin]

We should do. Have we not polled that?

[Vanessa Marin]

No, I mean, we polled. Have you gotten the ick? But I didn't break it out by gender.

[Xander Marin]

Man. What was.

[Vanessa Marin]

Okay, hold on. Let me go. There were 13% of people who have never gotten the ick, and that's about the percentage of our male audience on Instagram. We need to know. Maybe we should put this as a. I know. We can do the polls like in Spotify? Maybe this should be our poll. Like, if you're a man, have you ever gone there or hit us up on Instagram? We're Enessa and Xander. If you're not following us there already. If you're not, you should be there. Come check us out. Yeah. I wonder if maybe men just don't get the ick in the same way or at all. You can't name a single. I could keep naming more if we gave me more time.

[Xander Marin]

I mean, do you want to know why I think this might be the case?

[Vanessa Marin]

Why?

[Xander Marin]

I mean, I think from a very young age, women have been socially conditioned to. To pick things apart, especially, like, looks and bodies and things like that. And women are very, extremely harsh on themselves. And women are usually pretty harsh in their judgments on other women in terms of how they look and things they say, you know, whatever. And so I think that in many ways, maybe women might be more hardwired to be, like, more snap judgmental of things that happen. And, I mean, it's like you've kind of, like, wired this ick into your self of, like, oh, that's gross. I don't like the way that looks or something.

[Vanessa Marin]

I think you could be onto something there. But I've never gotten the ick from another woman.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, but you haven't, like, tried to, like, date another woman, really?

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. Or maybe it's just men are gross. No, I think you are onto something there. That we are. We have been socialized to be much more, you know, pulling things apart, much more critical of appearances and.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, but you know what's also kind of. It's also kind of funny, too, is that there is sort of this. There is also this social conditioning among straight women. Women of, like, men are gross, and yet we love them. And there's no male equivalent to that. Men are like, oh, God, women are so gross, but I am so attracted to them.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, there's like a. Women are so emotional and crazy, but, yeah, I think that's the equivalent.

[Xander Marin]

So I think that maybe the male version of the egg might be more related to that. Like, like, you know, someone like. Like seeing their partner get what they feel maybe is overly emotional or overly hung up on something, not able to let go of something. But I don't know if that's so much of an ick. It's like. It's not like a thing that happens. It's more of a pattern or, like a dynamic or something that takes a while to kind of develop. So, yeah, I Think that maybe men can get kind of fed up. Up with certain things, but it's not really like, oh, she just did that one thing. Oh, now I have the ick. It's like, oh, God, this is. I'm like, I'm feeling uncomfortable because this, you know, I don't know. I don't know how to handle this emotion.

[Vanessa Marin]

All right, well, we got to get into our more in depth questions about the ick. We could clearly talk on this. Talk about this topic and just share.

[Xander Marin]

Like a series multiparter.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, please.

[Xander Marin]

We're, you know, we're. We're running low on time to do these questions, so we'll do some questions, but we can come back and really go deep on more questions.

[Vanessa Marin]

Let us know. Okay, so here's the first one. My fiance and I have been together for six years. When we first started dating, we would talk in baby voices here and there, which was kind of endearing. But it became such a habit that for years this became the main form of communication in person and even over text. Eventually, we moved in together, and that's when I noticed how big of a problem it was. It started making me feel like we were no longer having real deep and meaningful conversations, and it really impacted how connected I felt to him. It also really impacted our sex life because I was so icked out by the childish communication and was craving more maturity and even masculinity from him. I struggled at the time with direct communication, so I mentioned that it bothered me here and there. But I admit I could have been a lot more clear. Eventually, I stopped baby talk altogether in the hopes that he would catch on and stop as well. But he didn't. And I'm such a people pleaser that I didn't bring it up again until a few months ago when I broke down and told him exactly how much it bothers me me. He responded really well and has made a real effort to stop the habit. Now I can't help feeling guilty and like I'm no fun and cut out this huge part of our relationship for him. I also feel the years of baby talk resulted in some resentment on my end and me now struggling to see him as a masculine adult man that I'm attracted to. I still view him as immature and our relationship is lacking emotional intimacy. Even though he's amazing in all other areas of our relationship. I fully admit my part in this and that I should have been more honest with him sooner. But now how can I stop viewing him as immature and childish and start viewing him as an adult man that I am very much attracted to. Ooh.

[Xander Marin]

This is more than just the ick.

[Vanessa Marin]

This is. Yeah. This is like a ick plus. Well, this is a cautionary tale of why you should pay attention to icks sometimes.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. And. Yeah. Express your needs and communicate how you're feeling. Yeah, I mean, I, I just, I. I feel like I gotta just. I, I mean, I agree with the, the person writing in, like this, you have, you had a huge part in this. And you, I hate to say it, you really created. You built the prison around you.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

While you were living in it. And now you've like, it's like you've given your partner the keys to get out of the prison, but you haven't quite let yourself out of it. So. Yeah. I mean, this is a tough one. I mean, the short, the short answer here, I think, is that you need some individual therapy to really come to terms with. With like you, you traumatized yourself. Like, you put yourself in a situation that kind of lightly traumatized you, and you built a lot of resentment. You built a lot of stories about your partner. You built, you built a certain identity to your. For your partner that you, that you, like, allow, like, that you kind of co created with him. And you can see that you had a huge part in that and you've now you finally expressed, hey, we got to stop this. I think that you're also, you're focused on the wrong thing. You're saying, I can't help but feel guilty and like, I'm no fun. Yeah, the fun part, like, it's not no fun. You express your needs and that there's something very adult. And he responded really well.

[Vanessa Marin]

And he was trying to stop.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, he responded well. He doesn't want to be seen that way. Yeah, he doesn't want to be seen that way. So if, if he was pushing back, like, oh, no, this feels like a really big part of my identity or our relationship, that's a different thing. But it seems like he's like, no, I don't want to be. I don't want to be seen that way. I didn't realize that this was creating that I wasn't feeling this way. But I can see how you can. Boom, I'm done. Yeah, it's over. I want to move on with you, but I think, I think that, yeah, like, I, you could understandably feel really guilty for allowing this to go this long, for suppressing your own needs for so long. And there's a lot. You gotta work through that part of it. But the no fun part has nothing to do with it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, sorry. There's some real lessons for you to learn here. You've been together for six years, and it sounds like you just recently brought this up. So there's a being able to bring things up that are bothering you. And there's the people pleaser tendencies, too. So I think this is a real wake up call for you, that you have to work on these tendencies within yourself but backing up, I think I like to think of icks as falling into roughly two general categories. One category is just remove yourself from the situation, and the other category is talk to your partner about it. So with the first category, I do think, like, this is where we normalize. Hey, we're all kind of icky people. We all do weird, gross, turn off y things. Like, that's okay. That's part of being normal and human. We don't need to be, like, perfect and polished all the time. So there are certain times where the answer is, like, okay, yeah, your partner does a gross thing, whatever. Close the fucking bathroom door so you don't have to watch him spreading his ass cheeks. I can choose to walk away when I see you doing your toe thing. Like, it's not that big of a deal. It's like. Like, just remove yourself from the bad stimulus that you don't like, versus. There are certain things that fall into this category of, you know what? It is worth having a conversation with your partner and not from a place of shaming them, making them feel like a bad person, but taking ownership of your reaction to it and making a kind and gentle request. So, like, this came up for us around farting. Like, I recognized for myself. I'm like, look, farting is a normal, natural, human bodily thing. Like, I don't want you to feel ashamed about farting. I fart too. So I took ownership over the fact of, like, hey. So the perspective that I have is, like, the farting is normal. But I would love for us to, like, have some consideration around how we manage farting in our relationship. And so I asked Xander, I said, what if we came up with this thing where you're allowed to fart to your heart's content in bathrooms?

[Xander Marin]

Let it rip.

[Vanessa Marin]

I would appreciate if, when we were together, you made an effort to maybe leave the room if you have to fart. And I understand sometimes farts just happen.

[Xander Marin]

Or try to do it quietly.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, I'm not trying to, like, make you have utter control over your body. If a fart happens, a fart happens. But, like, in general, could you try to like, be a little considerate? So it was, you know, I took ownership. I talked to you about it, I made some requests and like, now it's fine. It doesn't really, you know, farting is not an issue in our relationship.

[Xander Marin]

And every now and then when something slips, you laugh. I feel like we've come a long way.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. And so, like, I think the baby talk fits into that. Like just being able to take ownership of, hey, you know, I know that we started off our relationship like this and it was really sweet and fun, but now that time is going on, I'm realizing I prefer us just talking to each other normal. Can we do that going forward? So those are the two rough categories that I think we need to think about icks in. But yeah, I think that the task for you now is taking full ownership over this. Really looking at your people pleaser tendencies, your conflict avoidant tendencies, and trust trying to speak up much sooner when stuff like that happens. And in terms of like, okay, so seeing him as immature, I think that's work for you to do around try to notice and think about what are the things that he does do that are mature. You need to gather evidence for yourself. You've been so hyper fixated on this baby talk voice, but I'm sure he is a mature person. So, like, gather some evidence in your mind of like, here's some proof that this is not true. I am a little curious though about the. Our relationship is lacking in emotional intimacy. Like, that could be a very valid thing. Like, do you feel like you don't have emotional conversations? Do you feel like you're not able to bring your emotions to him? He doesn't bring his emotions to you. You guys don't have like an emotional intelligence in your relationship. Like, that could be something to focus on and to work on in your relationship. Relationship.

[Xander Marin]

Or is it that you have for so long kind of associated the baby? Like the baby talk was sort of like your way to have these sort of like, like a shortcut around vulnerability a bit. And so, yeah, so yeah, I wonder, like, yeah, is it that? Is it. Are you truly not having any vulnerable conversations or does it feel like you're not because you're not talking in baby voices anymore and that you kind of tie these two things together? Yeah, but I do, I do think that, and this is why I keep saying individual therapy is like, I think you got to recognize that you did really, you did some damage to yourself and your perception of the relationship over the course of These years of suppressing your needs and your desires. Um, and I. I do think that ultimately, like, yeah, you are going to need to talk through with a therapist. Have I done, like, is it, like, you're going to have to come to terms with. Have you done so much damage to your perception of your partner that, like. Like, there's a possibility that you're not going to be able to be in a relationship with him? Like, I just want to throw that out there. Like, I think you have to come to terms with, did I take this too far? Like, am I going to be able to create a new story or new perception of this partner? I think that it's hard. It might be hard to admit, but I think that it could be very helpful for you to realize I might have really screwed this up. And I think that if you can get to that point and examine that, that might actually, that might be the real kind of sink or swim moment where you can start to figure out, okay, can I move on. On from this? Because I think it's. It's hard. It's really hard to see our part in things, and you are seeing your part in things, and I think it's kind of important that you really are able to see the extent of your part, which was. You really damaged things here.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

Wow. Okay.

[Vanessa Marin]

I know that was a big one to start with.

[Xander Marin]

All right. I think we probably only have time for one more of these, so we're for sure gonna have to come back and. And. And do the rest of these, because they're really good. All right. My husband sends me dirty texts throughout the day. Like, I can't wait to slay your pussy tonight or get ready. I feel like I should reread these with a. With a better tone. Can't wait to slay your pussy tonight.

[Vanessa Marin]

Slay. Oh, or that's not a word I want to hear. Slay it.

[Xander Marin]

Slay queen or get ready for your meal tonight night. These are usually midday when I'm either running our household, working, overwhelmed with the kids, extracurriculars in the evening, usually when I'm sweating. Wait, wait, wait. This sweating? What?

[Vanessa Marin]

Wait, what?

[Xander Marin]

I. I get the other parts of that.

[Vanessa Marin]

What does the sweating have to do?

[Xander Marin]

You're usually sweating when he texts you, or do these texts make you sweat this? Okay, well, we. Maybe we will or maybe we won't.

[Vanessa Marin]

Come back to the sweaty, dirty. Text me when I'm sweating.

[Xander Marin]

Sweating might be the key here. There's some internalized shame when it comes to sweating. I always find myself rolling My eyes and sort of grossed out. I love my husband and I'm attracted to him, but these comments feel sort of disgusting to me. I love that he thinks about me all day and that he's attracted to me, but those comments actually turn me off. I've told him in the past that I'm usually in the middle of caring for our children or folding laundry after a workout, making lunch lunches. And these texts come at a time where anything more on my list feels like an unwelcome chore. Oh, okay, that's interesting. We'll tag that for later. He replies by telling me I used to be fun and that it would make him feel good if I engaged in the text and that I should be grateful that my husband is attracted to me this way and still obsessed with me. Okay, comments for both. Both sides here. I'm not sure how to approach this, because sending him flirty replies in those moments feels against the grain and unnatural, and it actually gives me so much ick.

[Vanessa Marin]

Ooh, I totally see both sides of this. Okay, so first I was thinking that this was an issue of her not liking the exact kind of dirty text that he's sending, because I think that if you sent me, I can't wait to slay your pussy, I'd be like, stop. Try that again, please. Because I do think dirty talk is so personal, and we like that. This is literally why we created a dirty talk guide that is now within our Deeper Memories membership, because we all have very specific reactions to specific words. I do not, like, slay in my dirty talk, but somebody else might be like, oh, yeah, daddy, slay my pussy all day, right? And like. And even the word pussy. I like the word pussy. Other people are like, do not call that a pussy. Like, I don't like that word. Right? So that's why in this, in our guide, like, we actually have worksheets where you go through and you talk about, like, the words that you do and don't like that are and are off the table. So that could be a part of it if you don't want him saying, get ready for your meal tonight. Like, what would be something that would feel hotter for you to hear? So I would be specific in telling him and not in a shaming way. So don't, you know, don't say, like, ew, gross. Don't say that to me. But you could say, like, if I was telling you that, I'd say something like, hey, I love that you're, you know, feeling excited and, like, wanting to connect with you, you know, it would be really hot if you said this phrase. So, like, I'm giving you the phrase that I like, but in a way that's like fun and exciting and making you feel excited to use it. If you shame your partner and how they're currently dirty texting you, like, it's gonna just make them feel bad and they're probably actually not gonna change their behavior. But if you make it feel like this fun, sexy, exciting thing to change it up, then you're more likely to.

[Xander Marin]

It is fine. At a certain point, just like the last person, it's. At a certain point you have to say, hey, I've had enough of this baby talk. Like, it's just, this isn't working for me. But like, this, it feels like we've caught this one in a moment where it's like, hey, let's try to pivot the person into some better dirty talk. So, you know, try to give them a number of positive feedback type of ways to get them using dirty talk that's actually going to feel dirty in an exciting way to you. Eventually though, if that is just not getting through it, I think it, eventually it does become okay to be like, look, here's the deal. Like, I wouldn't shame them. Like, how dare you send me this message? But like, hey, I've been really reflecting on this dirty talk thing and there are some specific phrases or energies that are just not really turn ons for me. And so let's talk about how we can change that up so it's like, eventually, that's fine.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. But I would start with making it positive and like giving, hey, you know, it would really turn me on to get this text from you.

[Xander Marin]

Yes.

[Vanessa Marin]

But then as we continued reading it, like, she's saying, well, I'm doing other stuff, I'm running our household, I'm working. And it feels like this sort of bothersome intrusion for her.

[Xander Marin]

And I think what he's hearing is, don't, like, don't text me at all. Don't tell. Yeah, don't, don't dirty talk me.

[Vanessa Marin]

So I can see both sides of this here. On the one hand, I have had the experience too of like, you're knee deep in something. Maybe you're doing some chores that just feel gross, maybe you're sweating and you feel gross. And like, yeah, there are times when I don't love to hear, like dirty talk from you. It's just like my brain is in such a different place. It's hard to let that in. So there could be Maybe a solution here could be that he shoots her a text and just asks like, hey, what are you up to? Or was thinking about you, something to kind of test the waters. And then she could say like, I'm really sweaty right now. Not open to anything, knee deep, insures. Yeah, I'm. I'm like, stressed out. I'm working really hard. Or she could say like, oh, you know, not much. I'm thinking about you too. So it's like he's putting a toe in and saying, like, hey, let me test the waters here. Are you open to this? And she's saying, yes, continue, or no, not right now. So that could be something. But on the other side of this, I also get his perspective that it's like, I imagine that he's in those moments and he's doing his own stuff, working, sweating, whatever it is, and he's.

[Xander Marin]

Maybe he doesn't sweat.

[Vanessa Marin]

I'm thinking about you and I wanna connect with you. And like, yes, it's coming out in gross. I wanna slay your pussy. But it's actually a really sweet sentiment. And he's trying to say that to her, like, yeah, I'm still obsessed with you. I'm still super turned on by you. I'm still so into you. That is a great thing. And I think so many of us, we have this tendency to get so swept up in our days and our to do lists and all of our responsibilities, and we really, really put sex at the very bottom of our priority list. And I think that there's actually a nice invitation here from him to her to say, like, let's create more space in our days to be playful with each other and sexy with each other. Let's keep that, like, thread of intimacy going throughout the day. So we're not getting home at the end of the day and it feels like we're strangers starting from zero. Right. So I do think she's being a little bit rigid in, like, I'm doing other stuff, leave me alone. When he's like, he's trying to connect with her.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. But also I do want to call out. It is not helpful. Not only not helpful, it's getting into potential red flag territory. If you keep saying, hey, you used to be more fun. Yeah, that's not respectful. Also, you should be grateful that I'm doing this for you. That starts to feel a little icky.

[Vanessa Marin]

Like, yeah, no, I get like, I don't. I don't love that he said, you used to be fun.

[Xander Marin]

And you should be grateful that I'm Doing grateful thing.

[Vanessa Marin]

It really depends on the tone. Like, I do think he has a point of, like, yeah, like, isn't it a great thing that I'm still. If he's singing and like, like, isn't it a great thing that, like, I still am so attracted to you?

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. She might be interpreting it as him saying, you should be grateful if he's literally saying, like, you used to be so much more fun. And furthermore, like, you should be grateful that I'm doing this because I'm still thinking about I could be out there with a side chick or something that's like, the tone really matters. That's not okay. But, yeah, I could see she could be interpreting it as he's. But he's like, hey, like, I'm. But like, I'm just, like, obsessed with you. I can't stop thinking about you. Like, is not a good thing. And she's hearing that, oh, you should be grateful. So who knows? But like, yeah, I do want to call it fall out. You used to be more fun. Like, if. If said literally in these ways, you used to be more fun. The implication is, hey, like, I liked you better when you were younger, or I liked you better back then, or, like, you should be grateful. Those are. Those are getting into red flag territory.

[Vanessa Marin]

I could imagine him saying it, though, as, like, oh, but this used to be such a fun thing that we did together that we, you know, we never know. There's two sides to every story.

[Xander Marin]

The other thing that I want to call out here is I think that this person, she. She. She really needs to do some thinking. I feel like she's kind of trying to play both sides of this in a way that is not setting her. Her husband up for success. Like, because, like, initially, like, what you're saying is, is it's, you know, we've called this out. It sounds like you're saying, I don't like the way that he dirty texts like, slay, slay my pussy. Slay your pussy. You know, your meal, whatever. Like, so there's that, but then there's also the. I don't like when he dirty texts me. And it's kind of verging on, like, also, maybe I just don't like dirty texting at all because it feels like we're too mature for that. Or, like, whatever. I think that this. I think that this person is kind of struggling. I think usually when people throw out a lot of different. Different things like, that they are struggling to come to terms with something about this is really bothering her. And I think you need to get to the bottom of it for yourself. Is it that you're not into dirty talk at all? Do you. Is there some internalized shame around dirty talk? Is it truly just the language or is it. Is it the moments that he's doing it in? Because I think the problem is when you start being like, oh, I don't like this. Oh, I don't like that. Oh, I don't like that. What your partner takes away from that is. Is, I understandably, wow, you're really no fun. Like, but also your partner's taking away. This doesn't make sense. I'm not under. Like, this isn't clear to me what's going on. So I think that you need to. And hey, if the answer is, it could be a combination of these. I don't like when you dirty text me in these specific ways. And I don't like when you dirty text me at these times, in these moments. That is fair. But I think that the key, I think where men especially go really wrong is when they're hearing inconsistency in requests from their partner. They're not hearing clear requests. I think men tend to prefer much clearer communication than women are maybe used to. And consistency. I think when men are here an unclear and then over time, inconsistent request tests, they kind of are. We're more likely to kind of throw our hands up and be like, I. Like, I don't really believe you, or you're not making sense. You're more likely to just disregard the person because you're like, I can't really take you seriously because I don't know what you're asking for. And you don't seem to know what you're asking for. And you seem to be conf. Like they're in conflict with each other.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah.

[Xander Marin]

So just disregard. So I think you really got to figure that out. What is it that you're actually asking for?

[Vanessa Marin]

For?

[Xander Marin]

And give him a clear request. Don't give him three semi competing pieces of feedback.

[Vanessa Marin]

Oh, my gosh, guys, we have to stop here. But we have, like, literally 10 other questions that we really want to get to.

[Xander Marin]

We're for sure doing part two, maybe three of this.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, I guess maybe the question is, like, do you want part two next week or should we, like, hold off for a few weeks and come back to it? Let us know at on Instagram or Vanessa and Xander. All right, well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We released new episodes every Thursday.