The Three Levels of Pain That Close Every Deal

Summary

Pitch Me Podcast Episode Summary: "The Three Levels of Pain That Close Every Deal"

Release Date: July 16, 2025

In this compelling episode of the Pitch Me Podcast, host Kayvon Kay delves deep into the art of high-stakes pitching with marketing expert Nicholas Bueno. The episode, aptly titled "The Three Levels of Pain That Close Every Deal," offers listeners invaluable insights into refining their sales techniques by understanding and leveraging the three critical levels of pain that drive purchasing decisions.

---

Introduction to the Episode

[00:00] Kayvon K: "Welcome to Pitch the podcast where real salespeople, entrepreneurs and business owners step into the spotlight to pitch their products or service and get unfiltered real time feedback from the 38 million dollar high ticket sales titan himself, Davon K. No fluff, no sugarcoating, just brutal honesty, actionable insights and next level sales strategies to help you close bigger deals faster."

In this episode, Kayvon introduces Nicholas Bueno, a seasoned marketing expert based in Vancouver, British Columbia. Nicholas brings his expertise in helping coaches and consultants monetize their email lists, a service crucial for scaling businesses in the digital age.

---

Understanding Nicholas Bueno’s Business Model

[00:56] Nicholas Bueno: "I run a marketing agency. We work specifically with coaches and what we do is we help them book an extra 15 to 20 qualified calls in 30 days within our system being set up."

Nicholas’s agency specializes in assisting coaches and consultants in building and optimizing their email marketing systems. His hybrid approach combines short-form content creation with meticulously crafted email funnels to generate qualified leads and foster client growth.

Key Services Offered:

• Automated Email Campaigns: Utilizing lead magnets to nurture prospects over a five-day educational series.
• Content Creation: Daily content pieces tailored to engage and convert the target audience.
• System Setup: Comprehensive setup of email funnels and nurturing sequences to maximize conversion rates.

[03:50] Nicholas Bueno: "It's more so for coaches who already have some form of momentum. So we usually work best with coaches who are around the 20k mark."

Nicholas targets established coaches earning between $10k to $20k monthly, ensuring they have an existing audience to leverage for monetization. His services are priced at $3,500 per month with a minimum commitment of three months, reflecting the depth and effectiveness of his strategies.

---

Nicholas Bueno’s Sales Process

Nicholas outlines a structured sales process designed to qualify leads and convert them into clients effectively.

Lead Generation and Qualification:

• Referrals and Inbound Marketing: Majority of clients are acquired through strong social proof and inbound referrals.
• Questionnaire-Enhanced Booking: Prospects book calls via Calendly, which includes a questionnaire to pre-qualify leads.

Sales Call Structure:

1. Discovery Phase: Understanding the prospect’s current business status, challenges, and goals.
2. Identifying Obstacles: Exploring why the prospect hasn’t achieved their desired results yet.
3. Bridging the Gap: Acting as a consultant to highlight the prospect’s pain points and presenting solutions.
4. Pitching the Service: Introducing the agency’s services as the bridge to achieving the prospect’s goals.

[08:00] Nicholas Bueno: "I have a calendly that has a questionnaire on my VSL landing page."

Nicholas emphasizes the importance of qualifying leads before dedicating time to a sales call, ensuring higher conversion rates and more productive engagements.

---

Role-Playing the Three Levels of Pain

The core of the episode revolves around a role-play session where Kayvon guides Nicholas through applying the Three Levels of Pain framework to enhance his sales pitch.

Understanding the Three Levels of Pain:

1. Surface-Level Pain: Immediate, observable challenges (e.g., not monetizing an email list).
2. Financial/Business Pain: Tangible financial losses resulting from the surface-level pain (e.g., leaving $10k-$15k on the table monthly).
3. Personal Pain: Emotional and personal impact of the financial/business pain (e.g., frustration, sleep loss, burnout).

[19:44] Kayvon K: "There are three types of pain. There's surface level pain, there's financial business pain, and then there's personal pain."

Application in Sales Calls:

• Surface-Level: Identify the basic problem the prospect is facing.
• Financial Pain: Quantify the financial impact of not addressing the problem.
• Personal Pain: Uncover the emotional toll and personal stakes involved.

Notable Insights from the Role-Play:

• Deepening Engagement: By moving beyond surface-level issues, sales representatives can connect more profoundly with prospects, making the solution more compelling.

  [20:03] Kayvon K: "What would that look like?"

• Eliminating Objections Early: Addressing the prospect's commitment and clarifying the importance of the solution can preempt common objections related to price and value.

  [22:24] Kayvon K: "So how committed are you to making that happen?"

• Effective Pitch Structuring: Presenting services in a way that aligns with the prospect’s identified pains enhances perceived value and urgency.

  [27:54] Kayvon K: "What should happen next?"

Through this structured approach, Kayvon demonstrates how to transform a standard sales pitch into a strategic conversation that uncovers and addresses the deeper motivations driving a prospect’s purchasing decision.

---

Key Takeaways and Strategies

1. Three Levels of Pain Framework:

   • Surface-Level Pain: Start with identifying the basic problem.
   • Financial Pain: Quantify the financial implications.
   • Personal Pain: Explore the emotional and personal impact.

2. Structured Sales Conversations:

   • Begin with discovery to understand the prospect’s current state.
   • Probe into the reasons they haven’t achieved their goals.
   • Bridge the gap by presenting your services as the solution.
   • Address commitment to eliminate future objections.

3. Handling Objections:

   • Focus on understanding and mitigating objections related to price and value by reinforcing the impact of inaction.
   • Use commitment questions to gauge and solidify the prospect’s readiness to proceed.

4. Pitch Dynamics:

   • Avoid Scripted Pitches: Personalize the conversation based on the prospect’s unique pain points.
   • Value Justification: Clearly articulate the value and ROI of your services before discussing pricing.
   • Facilitate Decision-Making: Guide the prospect towards a decision by outlining clear next steps without pressuring them.

[33:00] Kayvon K: "You must, you absolutely must sell or pitch to people who can actually serve... there's no reason why they shouldn't move forward with you."

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode concludes with Kayvon reinforcing the importance of selling to the right clients—those who genuinely need and can benefit from your services. By understanding and addressing the three levels of pain, sales professionals can significantly enhance their closing rates and build more meaningful client relationships.

[37:32] Kayvon K: "If you want to find Nicholas, go to coachcookies.com."

Nicholas expresses his appreciation for the session, highlighting the practical value of the strategies discussed.

Final Message: Kayvon encourages listeners to apply the "Three Levels of Pain" framework in their sales conversations to achieve deeper connections and higher conversion rates. He also invites aspiring entrepreneurs and sales professionals to pitch live on the show, promising a transformative experience through real-time feedback and expert insights.

---

Subscribe Now: To elevate your sales techniques and witness real-time sales transformations, subscribe to the Pitch Me Podcast, leave a review, and join the vibrant Pitch Me community.

Join the Conversation: If you're brave enough to pitch live on the show, visit www.pitchmepodcast.com and apply today.

Closing Remarks: Kayvon K: "Until next time, keep pitching, keep closing, and keep connecting."

---

This episode serves as an essential guide for anyone looking to refine their sales approach, emphasizing the critical role of understanding and addressing the multifaceted pains that drive purchasing decisions. By integrating these strategies, listeners can transform their sales conversations, close bigger deals faster, and propel their businesses to new heights.

Transcript

[Kayvon K]

Welcome to Pitch the podcast where real salespeople, entrepreneurs and business owners step into the spotlight to pitch their products or service and get unfiltered real time feedback from the 38 million dollar high ticket sales titan himself, Davon K. No fluff, no sugarcoating, just brutal honesty, actionable insights and next level sales strategies to help you close bigger deals faster. If you want to pitch like a pro, dominate every sales conversation, take your business to the next level. You're in the right place. This is Pitch Me. Let's get started. And we're back. Welcome to another episode of Pitch Me. Today. We have marketing expert Nicholas Bueno here with us today. How you doing?

[Nicholas Bueno]

I'm good. How are you doing?

[Kayvon K]

Good. Just, I know our guests always want to know where, where are you calling in from?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Vancouver, British Columbia.

[Kayvon K]

You're Vancouver, British Columbia. I love it. And tell us a little bit about yourself, Nicholas. So you know what, what business you're in, who do you, you know, what do you offer? What's the business all about?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, for sure. So I run a marketing age. We work specifically with coaches and what we do is we help them book an extra 15 to 20 qualified calls in 30 days within our system, within 30 days of our systems being set up. So that's a hybrid offer of short form content and an email funnel. And so within 30 days means within 30 days of the email funnel being set up. At that point there will have been two months of marketing systems being run. So that's kind of.

[Kayvon K]

So you work with coaches, that's like coaches, experts, coaches in a certain industry or niche or online.

[Nicholas Bueno]

We started with the niche of online fitness coaches, but we started to expand out just because the systems can work for anybody, like anybody who's a coach or consultant who's running some type of service based information business.

[Kayvon K]

This will work for so and so you run and you run. You help them set up what I'm going to assume is email campaigns.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. So an automated email campaign with a lead magnet that nurture them on a long form style rather than just hey, here's this PDF or like, hey, here's this guide. Or like hey, here's this free thing. It, yeah, there's a free course. It nurtures them over a span of five days. It works on breaking their beliefs and showing them what they need to see to get the results they want. And then it pitches them a little bit and then there's a longer form nurture sequence after that. And having that work hand in hand with the content is really effective. I Found.

[Kayvon K]

So you have a process here then because you just. It's not just email, it's. There's a free mini course.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Like a five. So is it. It's a five, five day series. Is. Is this like challenges or is this specifically different?

[Nicholas Bueno]

It's more so like a, like a five day informational education.

[Kayvon K]

There's a five day mini. I'm going to call a five day mini course, uh, Drip. Is it drift or is it. So we.

[Nicholas Bueno]

We've done it a couple different ways. It's either dripped or the reader can click to see if they want the next lesson immediately, which obviously we track on the back end. Who's clicking much? You can.

[Kayvon K]

And. And you guys help build all that or do you guys facilitate, like when and. Because building means obviously the system is the text, but you also help with the content and the copy.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yep. Writing all of it, setting up the.

[Kayvon K]

Whole system, all the videos. And then the idea is now. Okay, so now we have the mechanism, the conversion mechanism, which is get people into an email list, get them through a five day challenge with a little bit of a pitch and then it goes into more of a longer form email sequence, newsletter type thing, I'm assuming, or.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. Some longer form value style emails, newsletters and then some shorter direct offers as well in there.

[Kayvon K]

Now, are these for coaches that already have a list and they, they want to convert their list or is this for coaches looking to build a list?

[Nicholas Bueno]

It's more so for coaches who already have some form of momentum. So we usually work best with coaches who are around the 20k mark. Like 10k is kind of. Yeah. The lowest form of effectiveness, I guess we've done well with coaches who are under 10k, but just obviously, like if you're working with people who are under 10k and they make 5k and they have a bunch of other expenses to pay off, Right.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

If they're within the 10 to 20k range, they're like, okay, I know I need to hire somebody out, but I don't want to hire, I don't want to hire and have to train them. I know I need to do something to scale up, but I need to get my time back and I don't have to figure out all this marketing stuff. And so essentially we're looking for coaches who. Because most, most of the coaches who I've talked to at this level, even if they do have an email list, they're not using it properly.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

So get them. We get their time back by taking over their content and setting up their email system properly. So that way it actually maximizes the odds of them converting.

[Kayvon K]

But do you help fill that list up with emails?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, so we help them launch the actual lead magnet. And so what we do is we help them by we giving them scripts for videos to promote it. Pin that on their Instagram or TikTok. And then we also give them some story templates to use and tell them to.

[Kayvon K]

Okay, so no paid traffic or anything.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Like that that would be added on. Yeah, no, yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Okay. Okay. So these people have to have an audience because if they don't have an audience, no one's joining their.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Exactly.

[Kayvon K]

Joining in. Okay, so it's not so much the. It's not so much just the dollar amount. They have an audience. So you have an audience. You're not monetizing that audience or you haven't monetized email for your audience and you help people with that process.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kayvon K]

And then from there I'm assuming these call. These messages send to a book call or whatever to their product or service, whatever it might be.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Is that correct?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Correct.

[Kayvon K]

And what do you charge for the service?

[Nicholas Bueno]

So for the, for a content, a piece of content every day. And the email funnel setup, it's a three month, 90 day container and it's 3,500American a month.

[Kayvon K]

Okay. So $3,500American a month will get you a piece of content each day on top of, I'm assuming, the original funnel that gets built and all that. And then it's a minimum of three months.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Commitment.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Because we know it takes time. Okay, cool. And how, how are you, what's your sales process like? What's your marketing sales process? How do you get people the book on to speak with you?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, for sure. So there's multiple ways that we do things. The number one way we've actually gotten clients is through referral and inbound. So we have. I'm pretty proud of the social proof that we've been able to generate for our clients and the amount of results that we've been able to come up.

[Kayvon K]

How long you been, how long you been doing this for?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Just over two years.

[Kayvon K]

So two years. Do you have like a dollar amount that you would say that you've helped your clients close or generate or over 1.5 million American. So over 1.5. As a result of your activities, you've generated $1.5 million for your clients in new additional revenue. Okay. And so right now it's word of mouth.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. So it's I post content, word of Mouth.

[Kayvon K]

So social media. Yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

I've tried getting into the world of ads, but at the time, I just didn't have the bandwidth to get into it fully. And we were doing pretty well with other acquisition channels as well, so.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah. And so how many clients do you usually bring on a month?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Usually about. In a month, like one to two.

[Kayvon K]

Okay. One or two new clients a month. And are you looking to obviously increase that?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, yeah, that'd be great.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah. How many. In order to bring on one or two clients, how many calls are you having?

[Nicholas Bueno]

How many calls am I having? Sales calls. I would need to have at least three to four. I think that my closing rate is pretty solid if I get a qualified prospect. But they need to be qualified. Right. If we're getting four calls and the people aren't as qualified, I'm not going to close them.

[Kayvon K]

So how do you qualify them before the call?

[Nicholas Bueno]

I have a calendly that has a questionnaire on my VSL landing page.

[Kayvon K]

Okay. And then. So they. They come. They book. There's a calendly with questions that qualify them. Uh, and then do they get the book? Right. Either even if they fail, they get the book and you cancel or.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, yeah, and I'll cancel. Or I might just ask them. I might get on the call and be like, hey, look, you're not qualified for what I do, but I have some things I'd like to tell you, or, like, I'd like to direct you somewhere.

[Kayvon K]

Okay. And then when you get them on the call, tell me about your. Your sales process. Do you follow a script? Do you have a process you go through?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, for sure. So I have a pretty. It's a structured process. I wouldn't say it's like, super, you know, detailed in terms of. Here's the question I'm gonna ask here. Here's a question gonna ask there. It's kind of. So at the beginning, we have a discovery phase. So in the discovery, yeah, it's like, okay, where are you?

[Kayvon K]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

What's your current situation? What are you selling? Who are you selling to? I get pretty granular with all the questions of what's going on in their business. Anything they say I find interesting, I'll go into. And then after that, it's okay. Where do you want to be? So, yeah, where do you want to be? What does that look like? What does it mean to you? Are you selling different packages, more expensive, different person? Why?

[Kayvon K]

Okay, cool.

[Nicholas Bueno]

After that, we move into the next phase, which is, why haven't you gotten there yet?

[Kayvon K]

Okay. Why? You haven't gotten there yet. Okay, yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

So, like, what have you tried in order to get. Let's say I'm at, you know, I want to get to 30. Why aren't you at 30?

[Kayvon K]

Like, you do that after you get their. Okay, after you get the promise line. I call it, like, after. Yeah, okay. Yeah, sounds good.

[Nicholas Bueno]

So I go, okay, that's the promise line. Awesome. Like, why haven't you got there yet? So, like, okay, what have you tried in the past? Have you worked with other agencies? Have you worked with other coaches? Have you, uh, are you just tapped out on time? Yeah, once we get pretty clear on that and you know, what does it mean for them to, to stay in the same spot? So, like, okay, cool, you haven't got there. Like, what is it going to mean to you if you don't do anything? Like, you could leave this call, not buy. Of course you could do whatever you want. What's that going to mean to you? You're going to continue to run into the same problems. You're going to continue to run into burnout every day because you're doing all the marketing and all the coaching and trying to figure out how to scale. And then I kind of move into bridging the gap. So this is where I act as a consultant, where it's like, hey, cool, based on what you've told me, what you're doing wrong is X, what I would do instead is Y. And I don't give them, like, the action steps on, like, how to do why, but just more so, like, hey, you know, you can't walk properly because your knee's broken, not because you have a headache. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. And then if that'll make sense, like, okay, look, I can help you out. Are you curious as to how that works and what that would look like? They go, yeah, okay, cool. Then I move into the pitch.

[Kayvon K]

Okay, you want to. Let's, let's. I would love to do. Let's do a role play.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Sure, let's do it.

[Kayvon K]

Let's do that. Because there's. I, I know the formula.

[Nicholas Bueno]

You're.

[Kayvon K]

You're, you're doing. I, I think there, there's already could be some improvements there, but I love to see how it plays out in real life. So perfect example, right? I'm, I've just filled out the, you know, I've obviously filled out. I meet your criteria. I, I'm an expert and I'm looking to, you know, I have an audience, but I'm looking To monetize my, my email list. Right. So we get on the phone call, you know, we can, you know, get past the whole where are you from? All that stuff. But you know, we get right into the discovery phase, I'm assuming and you know, what are a couple of first questions you ask in a discovery phase?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, for sure. So Kayvon, talk to me about your business right now. How are things? How many clients are you currently serving? What's your offer? What's your niche? Give me kind of the high level picture so we can.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, so, so I, I help everyday people become high ticket closers. So learn how to leave their day to, to five jobs and develop one of the number one skills that I believe is the most important in all business, which is sales and show them how to close high ticket deals so how they can work with all these people that they idolize selling 10, 20, 30k packages and get a piece of that pie.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay.

[Kayvon K]

Create freedom. So we call it the first class closers. And I'm running right now. I'm running ads, I'm running, you know, vsl, all of that. But I know that we're leaving a lot. I'm not doing the email thing right now. I haven't created an email campaign.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, cool, Interesting. When you say everyday people, does it really not matter who they are? Are they like nine to five workers? Are you targeting a specific person?

[Kayvon K]

Well, we're, we're targeting right now people that are, you know, looking for business opportunity and, or looking for online. Like they, they want to get online, they just don't know how. So anybody's looking at how, how to build a business online, how to, how to, you know, how to get out of my nine to five people that are, that they, they know that the entrepreneur, the entrepreneur mindset. Right. Or they think they have the entrepreneur mindset and they know that just the day to day is not for them.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, interesting. Cool. And how much is this offer worth? Like how much are you selling it for?

[Kayvon K]

We sell right now it's a $10,000 offer.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, cool. And that's like a three, four, five month. How long?

[Kayvon K]

It's a, it's an eight week. Well, depending on how fast they go through. But usually it's about a two month program and with a guarantee at the end where we guarantee them a job.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, cool. And I assume they have to do a certain amount of work.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah. So they have to go through the program and then we have a 67 point assessment. So they go through assessment. We look at 67 characteristic traits of a closer, of a salesperson. And we'll see where they rank against 4 million other sales reps. And then so from there we see if they pass, we move them right away. If they don't pass, we tell them where or we look at where they're not, you know, adequate, I guess, and then we send them back to that training or we'll, we'll train them until they get there because obviously on the other end I have my clients that are looking for high ticket closers and we got to make sure that we're obviously sending them, not newbies, people that, that are trained up, ready to go and can get the job done.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Of course. Interesting. That's so cool. And so you said right now you're running ads, you have a VSL that you're running this to. Is there any word of mouth that there's all.

[Kayvon K]

Well, yeah, we have a little bit of, I mean there's always a little referral base because I've been in this business for now, 10 years. But yeah, it's mostly, it's mostly people are coming at social, you know, posting on social, everything. Yeah, nice.

[Nicholas Bueno]

And your goal, you said, is to start getting the email list working as well?

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, well, we, because we're, because we're running ads and we're collecting emails. We, we have right now about 500, 000 email lists. But we're not sending, we're not actually optimizing. I know that there's a way to optimize the email list.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

And I just don't have the time, the, the energy right now to focus on like, you know, basically, you know, coming up with a strategy of how we're going to turn that email list into conversions and, and be able to, because as we know those are going to be buyers at some point. But I like to implement like a conversion mechanism throughout that and then email the list consistently. Yeah. So we can, you know, turn that also into a, you know, a million dollar list.

[Nicholas Bueno]

So you haven't emailed these people at all, have you?

[Kayvon K]

Oh, we, we, There's a couple automatic emails that go out and then it kind of just stops from there.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Interesting. Got it, got it. So best case.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, we have like a 5, 6 kind of email, you know, sequence when they first join and then from there it kind of just, they just get to the end of the sequence.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Interesting. Okay, so best case scenario for you with this email list, it's bringing in how many clients per month?

[Kayvon K]

Well, I know it could probably yield easy another 10 or probably maybe even 20 clients.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay.

[Kayvon K]

Should. Yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Cool. All right. So you kind of alluded to this earlier. The reason why you haven't got there yet is because you don't have the time. Like.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Managing the ads campaign, you're.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, yeah, I'm just, I'm just focused on other things.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, yeah. You got way too much on you.

[Kayvon K]

I'm looking for someone to just take this off my plate.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, cool. So I can 100% help you out with that. We have multiple testimonials if you. Have you seen the testimonials?

[Kayvon K]

Yeah. So let's stop there. Let's stop there.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Let's do it.

[Kayvon K]

So I can 100 help you with that. Right? Is like, that's a typical. Oh, I can help you because I'm giving you an easy out right here. Right?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Sure.

[Kayvon K]

I would change that question right away to. Okay, so suppose someone could help you out.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay.

[Kayvon K]

What would that look like?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Oh, they would need to be. Well, I would want them to be proven. Okay. I would want them to, you know, so let's get ask that question. Right?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. What, yeah, what does proven look like?

[Kayvon K]

What is what? Well, no, no, like. Or you could go even deeper there. But like the question again is. Okay, so you, you said you want someone to help you, you know, that that's proven or that has the experience. What does that look like? Right. So it's like, hey, so tell me what does that mean to you? Proven. Like is that 5 years, 10 years experience? Is that. What does that look like? Okay, then I tell you. Well, I want someone who I know I can trust who, who's going to be able to understand my voice, really understand, not just emailing content wise, I. E. Copywriting, but also integrations. Because I don't want any of my email list email to be burnt. So I want to make sure. Do they understand deliverability? Do they know understand how to clean lists up, how to clean the list, manage a list, be able to break the list up into different campaigns. So if people are, you know, are interested in X, they go down the X list Y. Y list and then we're obviously cleaning the list. So my deliverability is on par. Because the biggest one is I don't want to burn my reputation. My IP reputation.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, that's a really good question. I like that a lot.

[Kayvon K]

I just giving you that. So let's, you can keep going.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Resume. Okay, cool.

[Kayvon K]

Oh yeah, man, let's go. I'm giving you gold here.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, so yeah, so let's say somebody were to Help you out with, with this email list. Like, what does that look like to you?

[Kayvon K]

Everything I just said, let's just go from that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, awesome. So, yeah, I hear you, man. I totally get it. It's one thing to have somebody who's a good email copywriter where they can write good emails or, you know, maybe they've taken a course or two or they, you know, they can write in somebody's voice. But to manage an email list is a completely different task. So I totally understand where you're coming from. What does a successful email management setup look like to you when you work with somebody?

[Kayvon K]

I just changed that question quickly. Again, not what, like, how do you know you have.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Got it? Got it. Okay.

[Kayvon K]

How do you know that you have. Like, how do you know that you've landed on a successful partner?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. Okay. How do you. How do you know that you've landed with a successful partner?

[Kayvon K]

Basically, what I kind of, I like said is like, I know I could trust, they understand my voice. They're showing competency in and, and in my systems. And they're, they're working on it day to day. They're not, it's not one of these. They, they leave it and come to it every five days. Like, they're, they're managing. They're definitely the deliverability. Because if they're emailing every day, I want to make sure that they're in the system looking at the deliverability, looking at the open rates, making sure that we're cleaning up the list. So people who are not opening or collecting spam, like, we're getting them off the list immediately. So that's a big one for me.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Got it.

[Kayvon K]

So anyway, if they're doing that and we're getting sales, so even I said, yeah, 10 to 20. But if we're getting two to three sales in the first couple weeks, then I'll know that I may have found the right partner.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, cool, Cool. So what kind of things. Where do I go from here? I'm not gonna lie. I've been stumped.

[Kayvon K]

No, it's. Well, think about. It's okay. Think about your process. You tell people you go to discovery, so you probably have more discovery probably to go to because this is all surface level stuff.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Right. You know, so there's three types of. Again, there's three types of pain. So remember this, there's surface level pain, there's financial business pain, and then there's personal pain.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Most sales reps or, you know, founders who sell, they Only ever stick to the surface level. So they will keep going with the email list. Email list. Okay. But let me ask you, Kevon, what's it costing you? Like, by not having an email list? Like, what do you think that's costing you?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Well, it's like 10, 15 grand a month. A month? Yeah, a month. It's a lot of money. Like, let me ask you this. Like, what would happen if you started generating 10, $15,000 more a month? It's emotional. Right. What's the personal pain? Well, as a result of not generating the 10 to $15,000 a month, like, how's that making you feel? Like, is that. That must be frustrating. Is it frustrating? Is it, Is it challenging? What's going on? Oh, yeah, man. I've been up. Keeping me up, like part of the. Yeah, I stay up every night almost over it. I've been trying to fix this for a long time. I just haven't found the right partner. Do you see where we go deeper, connecting at a deeper level here? Right. Then you bridge the gap. So that's what you usually do, Right. At this point. Well, what does success look like? We've kind of talked about that. So I would go, okay, suppose it's 15. I'm not making promises, but like, suppose we can help you get to like an extra 15 sales, which you said is 10,000. That's $150,000 a month. Where would you, like, what would be happening in the business then? Oh, I'd be able to invest it in more ads. Okay, so if you invested more ads and, you know, your conversions, you'd be able to make more. Yeah. So now you're talking about making two, three hundred thousand dollars a month. See where I'm going here? What else is going on? How. How would that honestly change? Where else does that change? Not just in your business, your life.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

But as you know now you bridge the gap. You're the bridge the gap guy.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Where I change that up is at that point, before I bridge a gap, I always want to eliminate as objections, eliminate them before they become op. So I always want to know, okay, well, how committed. How committed are you to making this happen? Not working with me, not not buying my product. How committed are you to actually making the change you need to make? I. E. You're going to have to bring someone in. You're going to have to make someone. You're going to have to trust someone to go down your. It sounds like IP is very important to you. You know, a little bit of email marketing. It sounds like. And you understand the reputation of your IP is everything with deliverability and cleansing. This. How committed are you to actually making that happen? No price yet. It's just how committed am I. Is that, is that a, is that something, oh, I want it now. Or is it like. Well, you know, I actually have. We're actually running another. We're running a five day challenge next week and I'm going on vacation. Three weeks. So you're not really. Yeah, it's not that important. And yeah, it's on that. That important. How can you pitch.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

You get what I'm saying? Totally. Well, I like to ask, how committed are you making the board? How important is for you to, to actually fix this today?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. And if it's below an 8, why isn't it above an 8?

[Kayvon K]

Well, if it's. Yeah, if it's below an 8, like, you know, you can do that, you know, on one of ten, like how important is it? Or a one to ten, how committed are you? Oh, above four. Okay, well why, why is it not a six? I mean, sort of. Or you can, you're smart, you go, okay, well, sorry, I'm, I would love to know what, what's more important than generating another $150,000 a month? Like, I would love to know what else going on in your business. It's fascinating. Oh, well, you know, you know, it's like. Okay, so it sounds like this pretty important, right? So what? They get real.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

So what's coming up for you? Like what? Like you feeling some hesitant, you know, now I'm not like I'm getting all that away before I even pitch.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Totally.

[Kayvon K]

Does that make sense?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. And then it's so much easier to, to get the yes when.

[Kayvon K]

Well then we want to also get to the. Well, that gets the ass. The, the ass. But then the consequence. Questions now, now you, you kind of said you did that a little bit like, but like, well, what happens if you don't fix this?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

What. Like, what's the cost of not moving forward if, if, if you get off the phone with me and he doesn't fix this another year, are you okay with that? And you know that most people. Here's the thing. If done right, if Maran's done right, they're on the call because they are in pain. People don't join people book calls because everything's going great. People don't buy their way into something, they buy their way out of something. They're buying their way out of pain. They're buying their Way out of this. You know, in my, in this phantom case. Right. Is. Is I'm frustrated because I know I'm leaving a lot of dollars on the table because I don't have someone I can trust in email marketing. What are you getting from this? Talk to me here?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, sorry, I just. Something was in my throat. Yeah, yeah, I'm getting a lot. The, the three levels of pain is really, really good.

[Kayvon K]

The surface level, the business financial level.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Financial and then personal.

[Kayvon K]

And then the personal level.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. Which I thought was great. Like, what's this costing you? Is a really good segue. And from the surface level into the financial, and then from there it becomes easy to be like, well, how do you feel about that?

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Like, what does it mean to you that you're just leaving 150k.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah. Month.

[Nicholas Bueno]

And then from there it becomes a lot easier to understand the cost of inaction. Right. Like, okay, so if you're not, like, curious, like, how committed are you to fixing this problem? Like, whether it's with me, somebody else tomorrow? Like, how.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, no, I, I'm, I, I do. Yeah. I want to fix it. Yeah, definitely.

[Nicholas Bueno]

On a scale.

[Kayvon K]

I want to fix that asap.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, Scale one to ten. Like, what does that look like?

[Kayvon K]

Well, it'd be ten for sure.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Okay, sweet. And what is it going to look like if you don't fix this?

[Kayvon K]

No, I wouldn't ask that.

[Nicholas Bueno]

You want to ask that if it's a 10?

[Kayvon K]

I wouldn't ask that there. Right. That's like. It's like. That's too easy. That's too, for me, that's too salesy. Right. But it go 1 to 10 again. Sit in it for a second. 10. Why? Why? Like what, what makes it a 10? Why. Why is that important? Another. Another thing to learn. When you say something, it means something. When they say something, it means everything. So if I can tell you it's important at 10, and here's why it's important. It's important because I know I'm leaving money on the table and I'm sick and tired of, you know, losing sleep over this, and I want it fixed now. That's a lot more powerful than you saying the same thing to me. I've now said that.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Then you go, okay, so just out of curiosity, I mean, you, you said this has been going on for about a, you know, three, four months. Okay. How long, how much longer can this go before you get frustrated, before you just, you know, throw your hands up? Two more months, Three more months. You don't want that to happen? No. Okay, so you're, it sounds like you're, you're, you're committed here. Okay. H. Okay, so what I'm hearing is the bridge, right? What I'm hearing is, you know, you've been your business going well, you, you're looking for extra here. What we do or how I can help you is exactly that.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Got it.

[Kayvon K]

Right. So you said to me, you want someone write, you know, sending emails every day. Okay, great. We actually, we have that service, so we actually write emails every single day. The one thing we haven't talked about is a conversion mechanism in the email. So what we actually do is we actually going to set up a five day miniseries for you because we understand that people come in the email list. We want to warm them up and pre frame them a certain way because the way we pre frame them will make them turn them into people who are just thinking about it or liking it, into buyers. And as a result of that, here's what you can expect. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You kind of get into it.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. Interesting. That's really good. I like that. Yeah. So if somebody were to say that, you know, it's the problem's a 10 and instead of just going through to the next question, like take, yeah.

[Kayvon K]

People go, oh great, 10. Okay, buy. It's like, no, because where do you go? The problem is a buyer at 10 is actually a dangerous buyer because where do you go from there? You don't, you can't go anywhere from there. Right. So that's why you want to make sure. Okay, if they're a 10, I, what makes it a 10? Wow, this must be really important to you. Tell me more. If this were to be fixed, if this was, let's say, hypothetically speaking, I can't make promise like say we were to work together in 30 days from now, full system working, emails being email, email list is cleaned up. Deliverability is happening. Cleansing. This is going on. You're, you're emailing your list daily and we set up a mechanism for them to convert. Right? What, what, what happens then? What does that look like? Oh man, it'd be blah, blah, blah. I'd be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right now you're getting back up to the high of it, right? The high of it. And then when they're at the high, that's when you say, how committed are you to making that happen? Commit it. Okay. Boom. So as I said earlier, we'll go a little deeper in what we got going on over here. First off, now this is the key, getting some free training here, aren't you? Most people say their service and then their price. I've tested it. It's price first. Because again, if you say all your service, then you say price, you have nowhere to go. But when I say, well, first off, it's only $3,500 a month and here's what you can expect. First, we're going to make sure we come in and clean your list up. Then we're going to start actually looking at the content. But before we can look at the content, we have to understand your knowledge, we have to understand who you are, your voice, all that. So we're going to have my team go through all of your content. We're going to curate all the emails you've ever sent, we're going to curate all your videos, we're going to learn exactly how you think, how you speak, and, and we're going to start building out email campaigns. While that's happening, we're going to be working together and we're actually going to be creating the five day conversion series. We didn't talk about that, but the five day conversion series is when people come in your list, we want to send them five specific videos that turns these people into, I want to think about it to, I want to buy it. And there's a specific way that we do that and we're going to show you and work with you during that. So what happens is by the end of 30 days, all this is set up, lists clean are emails are going out. We're going to start seeing that conversion in month two, month three. Now the success, the difference between failing and success comes down to very simply one thing. Will you give us access to your. Making it very simple. Will you give access to your email platform? And at that point you should have already in discovery, what email platform do you use? Right. You should already known that. I'm assuming you do that. Right? Like so will you give, will you Give access to ActiveCampaign? Okay. Cause the quicker you give us access to that, the quicker we can move forward. Do you notice how I've already said the price? So they're justifying the price to all of that. Okay, so now we, so we're gonna get access to your email campaign. Okay, great. We give access to all your content. Okay, great. Most importantly, the first five, those five 05 series emails, they do attach a video to them. If we write you the scripts and get the content, or all you got to do is record the videos, would you be Able to do that. Okay, so if we booked it now, would you be able to record, assuming the sale. Right. Would you be able to record my time next week holiday? Like, would you be able to record by the May 14th? May 15th? Yeah. Yeah, I can. Okay, great. Where should we go from here? Done.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Because here's the greatest thing you eliminated. If you've done this right, eliminated all the objections except price, you know, so they, if he goes, oh, well, I got to think about it. Or h. Go, whoa, what just. What just happened? Five minutes ago you were telling me you were at a 10 and you're wanting to move forward. Now all of a sudden it's like not working. It's the price, isn't it? And then you can handle the price. Objection. Right. Because usually, I mean, if done right, if they're the right product, like if you have the. Here's what I tell people. You must, you absolutely must sell or you know, pitch to people who act you can actually serve. So if this is the right client and you know, 100% without a doubt that you can fix their problem and do the, do the work, there's no reason why they shouldn't move forward with you. Would you agree?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Well, the only reason why they don't move forward with you is either two things. They don't see the value or the price is too high or they can't afford it.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

But in this case, you can't afford not to the probably $3,500. So. So just so I'm clear, Kayvon, you said one product is 10,000 for you. So if all we did was sell one product a month, it pays for the self three almost three times over. It's a no brainer.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

You. You can't afford not to do this.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Really. Right. You can't say that. But that's like the attitude you have to think about. Like you can't afford. Not like. You know what I mean? Like you never want to say that. You want to have the attitude of that that's the energy that you're bringing.

[Nicholas Bueno]

For sure. No, for sure.

[Kayvon K]

And then you never ask for the sale. People always ask for sale. I never asked for the sale. I always ask where should we go from here?

[Nicholas Bueno]

I like that.

[Kayvon K]

What should happen next? Because when they claim it again, it means something. Instead of me saying, hey, let's get this done. I'm pulling them.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. When you say where do we go from here? It's more.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah. So what should happen next?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Temp checking. Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

And they'll Say what? So let me ask you. Okay, let's reverse. I'm the closer. All right, Nicholas, so let me ask you, where should we go from here?

[Nicholas Bueno]

I'm ready to move forward. Honestly, so.

[Kayvon K]

Sorry, what was that?

[Nicholas Bueno]

I'm ready to move forward.

[Kayvon K]

See what I did there?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, you made me say it again.

[Kayvon K]

It's the double confirmation. That's the. That's the virtual. I call it the virtual handshake in a sales conversation. In real. What do you do? I want to move forward. You usually shake someone's hand, right? We can't do that on virtual. So I always, always go, sorry, what was that? And did you see. Notice the second time you said it, you're like, let's move forward.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

You meant it more.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Kayvon K]

Okay, great. So what I'm going to do is, you know, okay, awesome. So I'm going to let my team know today, I'm going to send you off. I simple. I always go there, have just a simple agreement. I'm going to send that off. In the meantime, let me get some information. Address, name, blah, blah, blah. Right. I don't know how you do if you take the credit card over the phone or not or whatever. I always say, okay, numbers on your investment card, right?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, I send them.

[Kayvon K]

So again, depending on your sales process.

[Nicholas Bueno]

I send them the link to the.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think if you want a little deeper form of sounds like this, a little bit more of a cost of an action question going there. And then. And again, we didn't hear your pitch. Sorry, I didn't hear how you pitch, but I gave it. Do you pitch similar like that or how do you usually.

[Nicholas Bueno]

I, I do the services, then price. That's usually.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah, yeah. So here's what I tell people. If you don't believe in it, it won't work because sales is all. It's all. It's all energy. If you can wrap your head around it and test it, I guarantee you'll make more sales.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Interesting. Okay. Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Because when you. When you go, okay, we're going to do this. You're going to do this. You're going to do this. You're going to do this. You're going to do. Is it going to be $3,500? Where do you go from there?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, you just stare at each other, wait for him to speak.

[Kayvon K]

You know, it's just a yes, no, right. Versus for only 30. $500, here's what you can expect. We're going to do this. Okay, I can touch that. We're going to do this. Okay. I do that. Okay, we're going to do that. Oh, okay. Now I'm, I'm trying. I'm justifying, Justifying, logically justifying the value that I'm going to pay for $3,500. I'm. I'm sitting with it a little bit.

[Nicholas Bueno]

No, totally.

[Kayvon K]

And you have somewhere to go. You know what I mean?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Because if, if you go, if you go straight from. And then 3500 bucks and it's anything but a yes, you're straight into what? Resistance. Objections. You're, you know, you're going back to the, the pingpong.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kayvon K]

Game. Okay.

[Nicholas Bueno]

No, I like that. That's really good. Thank you.

[Kayvon K]

No worries. I think there we have it.

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah.

[Kayvon K]

Now listen, if someone is a coach, if they're a consultant, they have an email list that they want to. To monetize and they want to make sure that they have email deliverability and that someone's emailing their list every single day. Where can people find you?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Yeah. So on Instagram at Bueno. No bueno. B U E N O n O. B U e n o O. You can find [e-mail] it's a lot easier to remember.

[Kayvon K]

Yeah. Coachcookies.com that's it? Yeah, that's it. If you want to find Nicholas, go to coachcookies.com any final departing words?

[Nicholas Bueno]

Not. Not that I can think of. Man, this is really amazing. I appreciate all the value that you gave me and it's. It means a lot.

[Kayvon K]

Appreciate you too. Thank you. That's another episode of Pitch Me, and you've just listened to Pitch Me with Kayvon K, the podcast where sales are redefined, objections are destroyed, and high ticket closers are born. Want to take your pitch to the next level? Subscribe now, leave a review and join the Pitch Me community. And if you're brave enough to pitch live on this show, head over to www.pitchmepodcast.com and apply today. Until next time, keep pitching, keep closing, and keep connect.