The Vault Unlocked: “Why Your Funnel Isn’t Converting (It’s Not the Funnel)”
Host: Kayvon Kay
Guest: Alicia Conlon-Herd, Founder of Persuasion Experience
Release Date: February 4, 2026
Episode Overview
In this episode, host Kayvon Kay welcomes funnel expert Alicia Conlon-Herd to unpack the real reasons most marketing funnels don’t convert. With hands-on experience building over 600 funnels across 120+ niches for brands big and small, Alicia goes deep on the mistakes founders and marketers make—and what actually moves the needle for booking qualified sales calls. Together, they challenge the myth that “fixing the funnel” alone will turn things around, and instead zero in on strategy, research, inputs, and the role of founder involvement.
Alicia’s Background and Approach to Funnels
[01:14–03:55]
- From Small Town to 600+ Funnels:
Alicia outlines her progression from cold-calling post-high-school, to agency sales at King Kong, launching sales funnels at Foundr Magazine, and now running her own agency, Persuasion Experience. - Philosophy:
- “The sales process starts in the marketing.”
- Success = research, strategy, and carefully orchestrated client journeys.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Funnel Basics: Website vs. Funnel
[05:04–07:06]
- Website: Like a receptionist—broad, informational, not built for conversions.
- Funnel:
- “A purposefully constructed persuasion experience.”
- Every touchpoint is a potential revenue leak.
- “Math is psychology, economics, and technology. That’s it.” – Alicia [05:51]
- Call to Action: You don’t fix a funnel by tinkering with tactics—your structure and ingredients (inputs) matter more.
Why Most Funnels Fail: It’s NOT the Funnel
[07:06–11:49]
- Businesses obsess over tweaking existing funnels instead of fixing foundational issues.
- “If your funnel’s not working, you cooked one of those phases.”
- Framework:
- Research
- Strategy
- Execution
- Most skip straight to execution and miss on inputs:
- Articulating target market
- Messaging/differentiation (“If you’re copying all your competitors, congratulations, you now have to compete on price because you idiots all just commoditized yourself.” – Alicia [10:16])
- Social proof and authority (most suck at both)
- Offer (most important: not just sales offer, but every micro-step in funnel needs its own “yes”)
The Founder’s Role: Abdication = Struggle
[11:49–15:17]
- “Founders who go abdicate marketing…struggle.”
- The most successful founders “are obsessed with the marketing and stay in the marketing and the sales.”
- Marketing isn’t a magic cure for a business that doesn’t have something worth marketing.
- “[Marketing] is just a magnifying glass.” – Alicia [12:13]
- “What makes you different from your competitors?”
- If you’re burnt by agencies, maybe you need to learn marketing for yourself.
Marketing vs. Sales: A System, Not a Cage Match
[15:17–17:25]
- Sales can sometimes overcome a lack of marketing—but not ideal.
- “If marketing does their job properly, sales is easy. If sales is doing marketing over the phone, marketing didn’t do their job.” – Kayvon [16:31]
- At higher price points (mid/high-ticket), sales needs to step in. But nothing works unless both marketing & sales are tightly aligned.
Bridging the Sales-Marketing Divide
[17:25–21:22]
- Most companies lack feedback loops between marketing and sales.
- Failure is often from “half-assed, failed attempt[s] to do some sort of working together” – Alicia [17:48]
- Best marketers get qualitative feedback from sales calls (analyzing transcripts, both wins and losses), not just metrics.
- Actionable Tips:
- Agree on what qualifies a lead.
- Collaborate with sales to engineer screening questions.
- Respect closers’ time—only send them strong leads.
Real Metrics That Matter
[21:22–23:32]
- Stop optimizing for lowest cost per lead (CPL) at the expense of close rates and real revenue.
- “CPL doesn’t affect the P&L. Stop optimizing for CPL.” – Alicia [22:11]
- North Star metric = cost to acquire a customer.
Today’s Best-Converting Funnels
[23:32–26:34]
- Funnel must be matched to business constraints and strengths.
- Core model: “Book a call” funnel.
- Ad → Landing page (with clear qualifying/disqualifying language) → Application → Calendar booking → Confirmation/Thank You
- Diversify later with quizzes, webinars, or additional offers as you scale.
Technical & Behavioral Funnel Fixes
[26:34–29:39]
- Use micro-yeses; only let qualified leads progress to booking.
- Calendar page: aim for 70–90% of applicants to book.
- Diagnose show-up rate by problem type:
- Wrong people booking (fix upstream)
- Right people forget (fix reminders/persuasion)
- Right people lose interest (fix offer intensity)
Why Show Rates Are Declining & The Changing Market
[29:39–31:57]
- Industry show rates now tend to 50% for mass market, higher (70–80%) for niche or business buyers.
- More skepticism: buyers now get hit with competitive ads after booking; “everyone knows the game.”
- Setters increase show-up through human connection or confirmation.
Trust Is The New Currency
[33:17–36:24]
- Massive societal skepticism following years of scams and over-hyped offers.
- The old “attention economy” is shifting to a “trust economy.”
- “Ads are fast, but content lasts.” – Alicia [34:38]
- Buyers research everything: YouTube, Yelp, Reddit, your competitors.
Building Trust from Scratch
[36:24–39:29]
- Case studies and real proof are crucial.
- If you lack proof, make a stronger offer or guarantee.
- “If you have less proof and you’re a smaller brand, your offer and your guarantee…need to be stronger.”
- Be creative in outreach—organic channels, unique cold emails, even sending a pizza for reciprocity.
The Future: AI, Storytelling & Personal Brand
[39:29–43:03]
- AI will change distribution & communication, but “what never changes is our little monkey brains.”
- Alicia is doubling down on storytelling, personal brand, and organic content.
- “Personal brand is the best asset I’ve ever built, and it compounds.” [41:46]
- Personal brand powers marketing—helps not just with clients, but with attracting talent.
Final Wisdom & Memorable Quotes
- “Marketing is like a function for your business…personal brand is the perception I’m trying to build at mass in the market.” – Alicia [41:29]
- “We are not in the business of helping losers become winners. We are in the business of helping winners win more.” – Kayvon [46:03]
- “You have to be really careful who you hitch a ride with as an agency, because some are going down and you don’t want to be dragged with them.” – Alicia [45:48]
- On starting over from scratch:
- “I’d find an underserved niche with money and cold call them. Cold email, cold DM, send them a pizza—get a few clients, build a new offer, hire people to run the offer. That’s it.” – Alicia [47:21]
Important Timestamps
- 01:14 – Alicia’s background and her path to 600+ funnels
- 05:04 – Website vs. funnel: structural differences & why it matters
- 07:06 – Garbage in, garbage out: Ingredients and structure
- 10:16 – Commoditization and differentiation
- 11:49 – On founder involvement in marketing
- 15:17 – Marketing vs. Sales: The balance
- 21:22 – CPL vs. cost per customer acquisition
- 23:32 – What’s working now: “Book a call” funnel in 2026
- 29:39 – Declining show rates: Causes and fixes
- 33:17 – Secret to winning funnels: Trust and proof over tactics
- 41:29 – Personal brand vs. marketing
- 47:21 – Alicia’s game plan if starting over
Resources & Where to Find Alicia
[46:41]
- Search “Alicia Conlon Herd” on YouTube
- Community: Obsessed on School
- All free systems, playbooks, and case studies available through her channels
If you want more founder insight and hard-earned growth lessons, listen to "Vault Unlocked" wherever you get your podcasts.