BONUS: Why Howard Schultz would make a terrible president

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Episode Title: BONUS: Why Howard Schultz would make a terrible president
Release Date: January 31, 2019
Host: Civic Ventures
Featured Speaker: Nick Hanauer

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Overview

This bonus episode debates Howard Schultz’s floated presidential bid, with host Nick Hanauer—a Seattle billionaire and self-described "class-traitor"—explaining why he believes Schultz, and business leaders generally, make poor political candidates. The conversation passionately challenges the concept of "running the country like a business" and critiques centrist, trickle-down economic policies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Howard Schultz’s Presidential Ambitions

[00:04–00:16]

• The episode opens with Howard Schultz, ex-Starbucks CEO, considering a centrist independent run for president, which sets off a wave of debate among Democrats fearing it would split the vote.

2. Critique of Schultz’s Economic Views

[00:33–01:23]

• Nick Hanauer expresses "enormous respect" for Schultz as a retail businessman but firmly rejects his economic ideology:
  • Schultz is labeled a "straight up trickle downer" who believes:
    • Tax cuts for the rich create growth.
    • Investments in the middle class are unaffordable.
    • Raising wages hurts jobs.
    • The U.S. "can’t afford healthcare, can’t afford education" ([01:15]–[01:23]).
  • Hanauer sees this as running on “a platform of telling us we can’t have nice things” ([01:15], Host).

Notable Quote:

“He is, as far as I can tell, a straight up trickle downer who believes that tax cuts for rich people create growth and investments in the middle class will bankrupt our great country.”
— Nick Hanauer [00:41]

3. Why Business Leaders Make Poor Political Leaders

[01:27–03:55]

• Hanauer outlines his fundamental objection to the idea that business leaders make good political leaders:
  • In business, all employees are hired to agree and take direction—"everyone who works for the business, by definition, has to do what you say" ([01:32]).
  • This is profoundly different from politics, where:
    • “Almost no one agrees with you… it may be a majority or even supermajority of people who actively are trying to subvert you.” ([02:37])
    • The business temperament often melts down when “no one will do what they say”—pointing to President Trump as a canonical example ([02:47]).

Notable Quote:

“The country is not a business. Claiming that you should run the country like a business would be like claiming you should fly the airplane like a unicycle—you will crash.”
— Nick Hanauer [03:40]

4. The Myth of “Centrism” and Middle-of-the-Road Leadership

[03:45–04:34]

• Hanauer is critical of Schultz-style centrism in the Democratic party, calling it “straight up trickle down economics, but without the racism.”
• Urges the need for a different kind of leadership, not more neoliberal orthodoxy packaged as moderation.

5. On Nick Hanauer Running for Office

[04:34–05:07]

• The host jokingly proposes Hanauer for office.
• Hanauer declines decisively, reinforcing that business experience is "not a qualification" for political leadership and acknowledging his work is best done pushing policy ideas forward from the outside.

Notable Quote:

"Howard Schultz is a great example of why people like me should not run."
— Nick Hanauer [04:47]

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Memorable Quotes

• “He is, as far as I can tell, a straight up trickle downer…” — Nick Hanauer [00:41]
• “He’s basically running on a platform of telling us we can’t have nice things.” — Host [01:15]
• “The country is not a business... claiming you should run the country like a business would be like claiming you should fly the airplane like a unicycle — you will crash.” — Nick Hanauer [03:40]
• "Howard Schultz is a great example of why people like me should not run." — Nick Hanauer [04:47]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:04–00:16 — Introduction: Schultz’s presidential rumors
• 00:33–01:23 — Hanauer critiques Schultz’s trickle-down philosophy
• 01:27–03:55 — Problems with business leaders in politics
• 03:40 — Hanauer’s analogy: Plane vs. unicycle
• 04:34–05:07 — Hanauer explains why he won’t run for office

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is sharp, candid, and witty—full of skepticism toward centrist billionaire candidates and their economic orthodoxy. Hanauer’s tone is irreverent but rooted in his experience in both business and civic engagement, challenging prevailing myths about what kinds of leaders America needs.

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Transcript

[Host]

So, Nick, you're a rich guy from Seattle. There was some news this week.

[Narrator]

Democrats and other critics of President Trump are urging former Starbucks chairman and CEO Howard Schultz to reconsider his potential plans for 2020.

[Nick Hanauer]

I am seriously considering running for president as a centrist independent. Help elect Trump, you egotistical billionaire.

[Host]

You happen to have any thoughts about that?

[Nick Hanauer]

Yeah, well, you know, I like Howard and I have enormous respect for his, you know, his ability to run a retail business. But I have never been a fan of the idea that business leaders make great political leaders. And there's a couple of reasons why. So let me just start by saying I profoundly disagree with, with Howard's economic policy ideas. He is, as far as I can tell, a straight up trickle downer who believes that tax cuts for rich people create growth and investments in the middle class will bankrupt our great country. He believes that raising wages kills jobs and all the rest of the neoliberal.

[Host]

Nonsense, that we can't afford healthcare, that we can't afford education. He's basically running on a platform of telling us we can't have nice things.

[Nick Hanauer]

Yeah, but rich people should get richer.

[Host]

It goes without saying.

[Nick Hanauer]

And I profoundly disagree with that. I think he's dead wrong. But there's another thing I think worth teasing out, which is why business people so often make terrible political leaders. And it is this, that the thing about running a business is that everyone who works for the business, by definition, has to do what you say. They agree with you by definition, otherwise you would not hire them. And if they disagree, oh, what about me? Yeah, you're a pain in the ass that, Goldie. But, you know, somehow we work it out. But the truth is that when you run a business enterprise, you purposefully surround yourself with people who agree with you and will culturally and politically and just economically agree with you and will do what you say. And, and that skill set, make no mistake, doing that, well, is very, very difficult. And it requires a particular kind of personality and temperament, which is rare.

[Host]

But it's not a democracy.

[Nick Hanauer]

It is not a democracy. And so I have had a foot in both worlds for a very long time. I've been doing politics since I was a wee boy. And now, as you know, I run an enterprise which is solely devoted to political and civic things. And what I can tell you is that these two worlds are, are nothing alike. That in politics, almost no one agrees with you. And in fact, it may be a majority, or even a super majority of people who actively are trying to subvert you. And what I have found Is that the personality type that runs businesses effectively, their heads explode in circumstances where no one will do what they say. Trump. Exactly. President Trump being the canonical example of this. He simply cannot believe that we just don't all do what he says. And charismatic business leaders tend to be people who expect that. And again, having run a business successfully does not necessarily disqualify you from being effective, but it in no way is a qualification for being a really effective political leader. And so I just can't say for certain that Howard would be a terrible political leader, But I do believe that his business qualifications do not in any way qualify him to be a political leader, despite what he may say and what the broader, broader public tends to believe. And finally, the idea that the country should be run like a business makes me want to throw up. I mean, it is just not a business. The country is not a business. And claiming that you should run the country like a business would be like claiming you should fly the airplane like a unicycle, you will crash. Like, it doesn't work like that. I just definitely do not believe that the country at this point needs what Howard thinks of. I think they call it centrism, which basically in the Democratic Party is straight up trickle down economics, but without the racism and, you know, like, that's not what the country needs today. We need a different kind of leadership.

[Host]

So let's close this conversation, Nick, by making some news ourself and having you answer the question that I'm always asked, when are you running for office?

[Nick Hanauer]

I'm not running. I'm not running. Howard Schultz is a great example of why people like me should not run. I want to try and do some good here on the margins and move the conversation about policy forward, but I probably wouldn't be a very good political leader. In any case, my business experience is not a qualification for it.

[Narrator]

Pitchfork Economics is produced by Civic Ventures. The magic happens in Seattle in partnership with large media. That's Larj Media and the Young Turks Network. Find us on Twitter and Facebook at Civic Action and follow our writing on Medium Ivic Skunkworks. And you should also follow Nick Hanauer on Twitter ickhanauer. Thanks for listening.