Podcast Summary

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Episode: How neoliberalism happened (with George Monbiot and Binyamin Appelbaum)
Date: April 12, 2022
Host: Civic Ventures
Guests: George Monbiot (journalist, author), Binyamin (Binya) Appelbaum (NY Times editorial writer, author)

Overview

In this pivotal episode, hosts Nick Hanauer and David Goldstein explore the historical origins, narrative power, and profound influence of neoliberalism—the dominant economic ideology of the past 40 years—on society and public policy. Through in-depth conversations with journalist George Monbiot and NY Times editorial board member and author Binyamin Appelbaum, the episode uncovers how neoliberal ideology was intentionally crafted, how it became so influential (particularly in the US and UK), and the consequences of its rise, especially on inequality and policy. It also examines the crucial role of narrative in economic change, and asks what might come next in the wake of neoliberalism’s apparent failure.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining Neoliberalism and Its Origins

• Monbiot's Summary
  George Monbiot offers a clear and compelling definition:

  "Competition is the defining feature of human life and that we are fundamentally selfish and greedy, that these are good things because our selfishness and greed can be harnessed to make us all richer, that society should really be governed by buying and selling and our interactions should more or less be reduced to commercial interactions… we can determine who are the best and most worthy people [by] who are the richest people." (06:32-08:37)

• Origins and Intentionality
  Neoliberalism was not a spontaneous development but a crafted counter-narrative designed to battle the ideological threat of socialism and social democracy post-WWII.

  • Its architects—Friedrich Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, and others—deliberately built networks like the Mont Pelerin Society (1947), supported and funded by wealthy elites, which proliferated through think tanks, academia, and media.
  • Over time, the label "neoliberalism" faded from use as its ideas became "just common sense" or, misleadingly, a "natural law."

  “The cleverest trick the devil ever plays is pretending he doesn't exist. And this is what neoliberalism has done.” — George Monbiot (00:30, 06:32)

• On ‘Freedom’ in Neoliberalism
  Monbiot critiques how neoliberals promoted the idea of ‘freedom’, failing to specify “freedom for whom”, often equating the freedom of powerful actors with the loss of freedom for workers or the public (09:42-12:30).

2. The Power of Narrative

• Narrative as a Tool of Political Transformation
  Monbiot and the hosts emphasize that narratives (or “meaning systems”) fundamentally shape public belief and policy. Humans rely on stories—not data—to interpret the world.

  “There is one [plot] that has worked again and again in politics and religion…the Restoration story.” — George Monbiot (16:46)

  • Restoration Story Structure:
    • Disorder afflicts the land (the villain: big government, bureaucracy);
    • Hero (entrepreneur, market actor) confronts and overthrows the villain;
    • Harmony is “restored” with the rise of the “universal free market.”
    • This was the narrative crafted and spread by neoliberals, junking older Keynesian models once crises gave them an opening in the 1970s (16:46-22:56).

• Current Narrative Crisis
  After the 2008 financial crisis discredited neoliberalism, no comprehensive new narrative has replaced it—leaving policy in an ideological vacuum (21:47).

  “We're stuck with [neoliberalism] because we haven't replaced it with a new story.” — George Monbiot (21:47)

3. How Neoliberalism Became Embedded in Policy

• Economists as Technocratic Gatekeepers (with Binyamin Appelbaum, 30:21)

  • Rise of Economists’ Influence ('The Economist’s Hour')

    • Since the late 1960s/early ‘70s, economists began to fundamentally shape public policy—moving away from direct government management towards letting “the market” decide economic outcomes (31:00-31:47).
    • The profession of economics gained outsized influence, framing its theories as objective science and promoting deregulation, lower taxes, undermining of labor, and the withdrawal of the state.

    "Economists begin to reshape public policy...by arguing that the government's hands-on approach...is misguided and that it will be better...if the government steps back and basically allows market forces to play a larger role." — Binyamin Appelbaum (31:47)

  • Sweep of Policy Changes

    • Deregulation (planes, trucks, finance, currency), tax cuts, decline of unions, and cessation of antitrust enforcement all followed (33:00-35:15).

• Indifference to Inequality

  • A core tenet: government shouldn’t worry about inequality—growth would benefit all (“a rising tide lifts all boats”) (35:23-36:25).

    “One really important factor was the indifference of public policy to the rise of inequality.” — Binya Appelbaum (36:25)

• Debunking the “Natural Law” Rhetoric

  • Neoliberal “science” was often unsupported by data, as early economics was highly theoretical and empirical evidence (for example, on “trickle-down”) was weak or missing (37:24-39:08, 41:39).

    “Friedman was famous for insisting that his economic work was apolitical ... His wife ... always insisted that this was nonsense and that she could absolutely predict the politics of an economist just by knowing what kind of work they did.” — Binyamin Appelbaum (39:25)

• Judicial Adoption
  Neoliberal logic (especially the ‘consumer welfare’ standard) appealed to judges by making antitrust decisions simple and “objective”, further embedding its ideology (42:49-44:36).

4. Consequences and Critiques

• Inequality and Social Erosion

  • Both guests and hosts argue that neoliberal policy—by prioritizing growth over distribution—led directly to exploding inequality.

    "The rise of inequality has happened in large part simply because we weren't trying to prevent it." — Binyamin Appelbaum (45:02)

• Empirical Failures

  • Neoliberal ideas were often justified with little or faulty evidence and proved “intellectually, socially, environmentally bankrupt” after the 2008 crisis (21:47).

• Markets and Government Are Not Opposites

  • The hosts and Appelbaum stress that markets are constructed by government rules—government is not an “outside force” intruding on a natural market (49:36).

    "Markets don’t exist without government ... those rules are really important. And what we need to be talking about is how to write better rules." — Binyamin Appelbaum (49:36)

• Call for a New Policy Priority

  • Reducing inequality should become a primary goal of policy (50:33-51:04).

    "On some very basic level ... the solution ... is to start treating inequality, the reduction of inequality, as a primary goal of public policy." — Binyamin Appelbaum (50:33)

5. The Importance of Storytelling—and the Future

• Narrative is Power

  • Economic theory becomes reality when enough people believe in it; it is reflexive, not a brute fact of nature (57:09-57:59).

    “The weather is an objective system based on physics, and the economy is a reflexive system based on beliefs...” — Nick Hanauer (57:09)

• Building a Counter-Narrative

  • Both interviews circle back to the need for a new, compelling, and accurate story about economics based on cooperation, fairness, and shared prosperity—one that, unlike neoliberalism, actually aligns with human values and evidence.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Narrative Tricks:

  "The cleverest trick the devil ever plays is pretending he doesn't exist. And this is what neoliberalism has done."
  — George Monbiot (00:30, repeated 06:32)

• On Narrative Power:

  “A political or religious transformation is unlikely to happen unless it can tell a new and gripping story with this narrative structure ... the Restoration story.”
  — George Monbiot (16:46)

• On Human Nature and Governance:

  “Broadly speaking, we are a society of altruists governed by psychopaths.”
  — George Monbiot (16:11)

• On Unequal Rewards:

  “It simply cannot be true that, you know, a person who trades bonds on Wall Street should be worth a thousand times what a person who teaches algebra should.”
  — Nick Hanauer (56:01)

• On the Making of Policy:

  "Markets don’t exist without government. They don’t exist without human rules ... what we need to be talking about is how to write better rules."
  — Binyamin Appelbaum (49:36)

• On Economic Policy and Democracy:

  “We need to be shifting power from technocrats back into the political process, to empower voters to participate … That's how we get better outcomes.”
  — Binyamin Appelbaum (54:01)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Defining Neoliberalism and Early Intentionality: 05:56–14:24
• Role of Narrative in Economic Ideology: 16:42–22:56
• Policy Shifts and Inequality (Appelbaum): 31:00–35:15
• Empirical Problems & Intellectual Legitimacy: 37:24–39:08, 41:23–41:39
• Judicial and Policy Embedding: 42:49–44:36
• On the Importance of Policy Rules: 49:36–50:25
• What Should Be Done Now: 50:33–51:04
• Metanarrative & Reflexivity: 57:09–57:59

Conclusion

This episode of Pitchfork Economics offers both a historical investigation and a passionate plea: understanding how ideas shape economic reality is essential—not only for critiquing the failures of the past era, but in constructing a new, healthier economic paradigm for the future. Neoliberalism, far from being a natural law or mere description, was a deliberate project, spread through a potent narrative and powerful institutions—one that must now be replaced by a new story fit for our times.